Rut Madness: Out of State Update

Speaker 2: 0:22

Welcome back to the Garden State Outdoors and Podcast presented by Boondock Sonning. I'm your host, mike Nitro.

Speaker 1: 0:27

I'm Peyton Smith.

Speaker 2: 0:30

We got a special one for you guys. We have our rut madness part two coming for you guys. We're going to be giving you guys weekly updates every week now until the season's over. Justin Peyton and I we all decided we actually really like this weekly update scenario that we got going on right now. We're not going to just do it for the rut, we're going to keep it going for the rest of the year. You know, with waterfowl season and all different types of things coming to flow, so there's a lot of things going on. But you know we're going to give you guys a little bit of more of an update with the rut in different locations Kyle just got back home from Kentucky and Dave out on Long Island or, yeah, long Island. You know a little different perspective on how their season's going and what type of activity they are seeing. So, guys, welcome, welcome back. What's going on, everybody.

Speaker 2: 1:29

What's up guys, you know. So, kyle, why don't you go first, and what will have you go first, and then I'll get into the rest of the stuff.

Speaker 3: 1:40

All right. So I went to last Friday night. I left for Kentucky. I was only going to go for like three days, maybe four days, and I ended up staying there all week. I had high hopes going into it. I think I timed it correctly, but I didn't at all.

Speaker 3: 2:02

So I was looking at the weather and their rifle season had started this past Saturday on Veterans Day and the week leading up to it. I figured would be a good time to try to catch the early spot, like the early phase of the rut, and I didn't at all. I was really really slow. I got up to like mid seventies during the day or in the mornings, it was like high forties. That was pretty much from Saturday until like Wednesday and then Thursday night the weather was, the front was coming in and it was going to change. So I'm like you know what, screw it, I'm going to stay till Friday and I'm going to hunt pretty much all day.

Speaker 3: 2:50

Friday I hunted all day Tuesday half the day. I got out for like an hour on Wednesday and then Thursday a hundred in the morning a little bit, and then the neighbor was cutting the beans and it was just a disaster. And then Thursday night I got into the spot on this one farm that I've been hunting and I get up in the stand and I got in there super early too and it's a big bean field and at the backside of the bean field that drops down to a bottom and it's a real thick and nasty down there and a lot of those deer like to come up from that. So I had like high hopes going into it. You know the pressure system was starting to go on the rise and it was starting to get cooler in the afternoon. So I'm like, dude, this is perfect, like those are going to come out here and these bucks are going to send check them. So I get up in the stand, walk all the way back there, get up in there, I'm setting the camera up and setting everything up and the farmer starts up the combine All right, whatever and he's plowing the other side of the field and the sunset from Jersey to Kentucky is about a half hour difference, so the sunset was like 520 over there and sure as shit he decides to drive the combine between 430 and 530 right in front of my stand. And he knew. He knew what he was doing because there's a really big deer on that farm and I had a feeling like he knew what he was doing, because I specifically because when I was on the stand across the road, I parked on that side of the road, so like I'm parked over here, so obviously I'm in, you know, I'm over on this side. I parked on this side of the road, obviously I'm over on this side, and there's no way he didn't see me walking across the bean field because he was outside working on the combine. So I got up in the stand and I was just when he drove by. I was so pissed I mean he was 10 yards from me and just the anger, like I thought that was going to be the night. Like I said, everything started. The star started to line a little bit, so that night was shot.

Speaker 3: 4:59

Friday morning I get in the stand, cold, like super, super cold, like I didn't put on enough layers cold, and I'm like, oh man, this is it. There we go, and the farmer just wanted to put the York rake on his tractor and regrade the driveway. That's like 2000 years long. So I had to listen to that for like an hour and I'm like I'm done, like I'm getting out of the stands, like there ain't nothing coming in. This is not going the way that I wanted to Like. I wanted to hunt all day in there.

Speaker 3: 5:34

So that stand, it's like a bowl in between, like the bean fields, and no matter. So what, what. What I figured out was no matter what which way. If it was a North one, I needed a North wind. It didn't matter if it was a North or if it was a Southwest, it didn't matter. Every time that wind hit me in the bowl it was in my face, which was good, but the wind would hit the edge of the bowl behind me and swirl back and I didn't get picked off. I saw a couple of does like throughout the week there. I saw like a hundred 20 inch eight trot on by like four o'clock in the afternoon the one night, but it's just the way that the wind would hit the side of that bowl, like, like I said, it could have came in from any direction, but just the way that I was swirling down there. It just really wasn't like, and I had been in there all week and you know, so obviously my scent was, you know, was in there, and so I decided to go back Friday night. I decided to go back to the first form that I was hunting and it's like 150 inch 10 and he's got a bunch of trash halfway throughout his beam Like he's a freaking stud of a buck. I'm in that stand and a bunch of dough start piling out and there's a little four corn was just grunting his head off and then up the risk behind me like 150 yards and I mean it's steep up behind me. As I was climbing down the ladder I just heard like the deepest grunt I've heard ever. I was like that's it, like he was right there. So that was it, man.

Speaker 3: 7:21

The next morning was the wife will season and I really wasn't mentally, I was drained, physically I was drained, you know, lugging all the camera equipment in and out and there was a couple hunts that I sat or I didn't even bring my camera and sometimes I just brought my GoPro just because I was so drained. And where I'm at in Kentucky, yeah, there's a lot of ag fields and stuff, but it's mountains, like freaking mountains, like it took me. I mapped it on on X. It's a half a mile up the face of this mountain and you got to turn. It took me 38 minutes to get to the stand, and one morning and it's tough man, and you get in your head and mentally you just start getting drained and physically you start getting drained and you're just like dude, like what the fuck am I doing? Like this is so stupid, this is pointless. So I reached that point 100% by Friday.

Speaker 3: 8:12

When I got out of the woods I was done, I was. I drove home like the first three hours I didn't have the radio on. I didn't have nothing, dude, I just kept to myself. I was. I just needed that quiet time. I was. You know, I really had hope that. You know, that hunt was gonna, it was gonna end up working out for me.

Speaker 3: 8:30

And you know, hunting out of state for for eight years and not tagging out, which is my personal goal, is obviously to shoot a 150 inch deer bigger, you know, and I've passed more 130, 140 inch deer than a lot of people would. You know. I've said it before. People think you know you're, you're stupid for doing that. You're wasting all this money going out there, you're wasting tags, blah, blah, blah. Well, if I've done it for the last eight years, what's another year? At this point you know what I mean. I'm sticking to my guns and I'm not pulling the trigger unless, unless it's a giant. You know, that's just a personal goal of mine.

Speaker 3: 9:07

But um, so that was Kentucky. And then, uh, of course, saturday morning it was a low of like 32 and it was opening day rifle season. It was going to be a high of like mid 40s, low fifties maybe, for like five days straight. So it was like they, they, they, they shot a couple of good bucks, but, um, like I said, I'm not really a gun hunter, so, but Jersey for me, I haven't, I really haven't hunted much.

Speaker 3: 9:38

Uh, my cameras, november seven, eight, nine, 10th, uh, pile of bucks showing up, pile of bucks, breeze buck showed up, the other buck showed up, um, the one camera that I have that had a fricking giant on it. The camera died like two days after I was in Kentucky. So I didn't watch it all week last week and I was pissed. So that was kind of uh, that was kind of a bummer.

Speaker 3: 10:05

But um, but no, I'll get a last week and I would say up until about, I would say up until today, I've had, you know, mid day, movement bucks coming in, um hit, you know, check of some scrapes here and there, but not like super, like not a lot, a lot, but, um, they're still chasing. I I think that we're more so on that lockdown phase now as far as the bigger mature bucks yeah, I mean, I'm not a two, three year olds running around and stuff, but every big, you know decent buck that I've seen, whether it was driving to work or whatever, he was locked down on a go like a hundred percent. So I think right now we're kind of in that lockdown phase, we're kind of transitioning into that right now.

Speaker 2: 10:53

Yeah, Now I, I definitely will, will agree on that. Um, I definitely think one of my, the big boys that I'm after he's, he's been locked down and Peyton knows this. I've been saying this for the last couple of days because he was consistently day lighting, um, of course, while I was at work and um, you know I'll get, I'll get more into that one out when I talked about you know my week and everything like that, but um, hi, where you were, was that the outfitting company used to be with?

Speaker 3: 11:25

No, I actually I still work. I work for a different outfitter, Um, I do the marketing, um social media management and all that stuff. So, um, I kind of got a good gig with that, only because I go and I can hunt over 10,000 acres in Ohio, I can hunt over 5,000 acres in Kentucky, but it's not like the properties that I hunt aren't properties that, um, that our clients hunt that are different properties.

Speaker 3: 11:59

Now, if there's a couple of properties where there's a big deer on it and we haven't had any clients on it, wherever the case may be, yeah I'll hop on that property. But my body leases two or three farms just for us. So if the clients are out or we don't have clients or whatever, we're still able to hunt and we're not pressuring the farms that we do have for the clients. So we got a good thing. Makes sense.

Speaker 2: 12:28

Yeah, no, that's definitely great Anywhere with them and how the clients have been doing this year. What type of movement's been gone on in the last couple of weeks, even in Ohio too, because I know you're out in Ohio usually every year and everything like that. And you were were you there this year earlier? I?

Speaker 3: 12:47

don't know. No, I was in Kentucky for the opener and then I went back to Kentucky. I wasn't. So I normally go to like last week is the week that I go to Ohio every year and I normally just hunt Kentucky the opener. But with the tags being so expensive now I was like I'm not gonna pay like almost $300 for a Kentucky tag to hunt it two days. For me to go drop another hundred or something or two hundred or something dollars for an Ohio tag to hunt for five days. Like no, I have a tag in this state, I'm going back to the state. So this year was the first year in eight years that I didn't hunt Ohio but the season. But season's not over yet.

Speaker 2: 13:20

So yeah, well, you listen, you're not not that you're running out of hunting season for hunting?

Speaker 3: 13:28

but you know you're running.

Speaker 2: 13:30

You're running at a time there. You know, and I will say this, I was very shocked to not get a Snapchat saying Bree just killed that buck. I just want to just want to put that out there. I was really surprised, cause the many you said wrote that Bree was out hunting and then she said, oh, he's here.

Speaker 3: 13:52

I was like, oh, she's going to, she's going to get one but you know, but man, they like never hit the camera, like they always circle it and come around and, like the deer, they do, dude, they do dumb shit in there where she's at. I don't understand it, but she's like like I had some does come in, I guess, or whatever. And then it was dead for like two hours and then she's like there's nothing here. Like 90 seconds later he's here. I'm like, dude, are you joking me Right now?

Speaker 3: 14:22

Like, but yeah, I was really wanting her to kill that deer, cause just because I felt bad, like you know, we got to having a family and everything, like you got to compromise, you know. And she said she told me to stay out in Kentucky and the idea was for me to come home that Monday night or that Tuesday morning and have her hunt Tuesday, wednesday, thursday, cause those are the days that she wanted to hunt. So I was like, yeah, I'll go to Kentucky a couple of days, then you hunt your three days and then I'll hunt the rest of the week, or whatever. And but she's like, nah, just stay out, like you're already out there and you might as well, you know, try to get it done. But of course those three days her buck daylighted and she's texting me and she's like, wow, weird. It's like I know when my buck was going to show up.

Speaker 3: 15:03

I'm like whatever, but but yeah, I really thought she was ended up killing that deer, but they're got some time left. I'm not like now it's like daylight savings, like it just makes it even worse because I don't leave work until it's fricking dark now. So it's like and then on the weekends it's like you know, it's tough for me and her to both get out. So I'm not going to. I'm really not, probably not going to hunt unless that big deer shows back up, which I have a. I have a weird feeling that, like around Thanksgiving, he's just going to pop up for like two or three days like daylight, and then he's just going to be gone for the rest of the year For some odd reason. And my, my gut keeps telling me that, yeah, but definitely, definitely.

Speaker 2: 15:55

Well, man, yeah, I hope you all the hard work, I hope you get it done soon. You know, and we talk every day and everything like that, so like it's going to come in, I mean, I imagine Bree's going to. I know Bree's probably going to kill one before you know the due date here and before the third one is is here. Listen, kyle has been plowing, has been plotting his own hunting army here and we know what'd you say that day. What'd you say? No, he said you're going to have enough kids that you can, during six day, you guys can go do deer drives.

Speaker 3: 16:31

Oh yeah, I'm going to have enough kids where we're going to do deer drives in our six day. I'm done, I'm done. Third ones come in February and I'm going to be in February, and I'm done, I'm not, I'm done.

Speaker 2: 16:47

Snip, snip.

Speaker 3: 16:48

Hang on, I said that after the first one. You did say that I'm done.

Speaker 2: 16:54

Then you said it after the second one I did, I did, and then you're like dude, I did it again.

Speaker 3: 17:06

Yeah, and like you said, I've. You know I say it all the time it's tough to balance. You know hunting and work and you know trying to get her out and then trying to get me out and it's like you know it's, it's tough, you know. That's why every year I try to. You know, last three years I've been trying to get her out and get it done early on. So then it's like, okay, she shot her buck, I go do what I want. Now, pretty much so it's. It's been a grind this year for sure, but I don't see it's, it'll, it'll, it'll happen. It always does.

Speaker 2: 17:43

Definitely, definitely will, man. But all right, bro, I know you gotta, you gotta get going and tuck the little ones in. Yeah, um, we'll, we'll get you on. You know you got a free invite, so you, whenever you want to come on, and you know we'll talk and we'll get you back on. And you know we still need the dynamic duo episode. We we got to get that one going too as well.

Speaker 3: 18:04

Keep on saying it, man. I keep on saying it to her.

Speaker 2: 18:07

We're, we're, we'll get, we'll get that one going. But um, all right, Kyle, thanks for for hopping on and, uh, we'll talk to you soon.

Speaker 3: 18:14

All right, guys, I'll talk to you later.

Speaker 2: 18:16

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 18:17

Good luck the rest of this year, man, you too man, see ya, um man tough, tough, you know um, but you know from what he was saying and it's like we talked about this not that long ago and talked about the different things that make whitetail hauntings so unique. And this is like there's so many different ways that you can whitetail hunt. You know we talked about you know putting food on the table. You know just hunting, you know wanting to. You know shooting a pile of them, the whack them and stack them. You know using the manicuring the land if you have it, or you know patterning and targeting specific gear. And I think it's really cool that he's had that discipline to just have a goal and to chase that goal and you know, eventually you'll get there and it'll be all the more worthwhile. So it's another reason why I think whitetail haunting is such a unique style, especially since it's the most readily available to everyone. 100. So many different ways to do it 100%, 100%.

Speaker 2: 19:20

I'm going to get real quick into the main update for my cousin and then Dave's going to go, then I'm going to hit Bobby's update and then you know we'll talk. We'll talk a little more and then we'll call it here. But, like I said, my cousin's out in Maine right now. You know he had shot his second, his second buck in the last two years there. Very tough state to hunt, especially out where they are in the deepwoods of Maine. But what he said basically, honestly, it was pretty simple. Honestly we haven't seen much activity pertaining to the rut he goes. All the deer we've seen don't act like they've been getting pushed around by bucks. The one I shot was trying to cross the road and didn't know what to do with himself and he froze Right and I literally told him I was like man, I wish that would happen, like I wish I had a deer that would just freeze there and just not do anything completely opposite of how he killed his buck last year.

Speaker 2: 20:22

And then the good thing is the weather. It started to snow over there, so it's real cold, started to snow and that's when they got out. They knew deer would be moving and 100% deer were moving. They have not seen many scrapelines, but they've been seeing rubs. They said you just kind of what Kyle was saying too you just got to kind of get lucky. You hope you're going to plan it correctly, but you really don't know, and you kind of got to get the luck of the draw what days or which weeks you're going to pick.

Speaker 2: 20:58

Same thing with all of us here. We look at our work schedule, we look at the weather. We're like all right, we think that this day is going to be good and in our head it's going to be a great day. But then we can have a day where we don't see anything. We see one deer. So sometimes I think as much as and I think Peyton's told me this the other day like we overthink things a little too much and sometimes it just does not work out. And you do need that luck. You need that luck of a doe being hot and her coming in. You need a little bit of luck when we're doing this.

Speaker 1: 21:38

It's really it comes down to it's, and to think it's anything else would be fooling yourself. Is it's a series of educated guesses, that you have to make educated guesses to put yourself on the X and kind of do the mental math on like what gives you the best odds? Because at the end of the day it still is a roll of dice. Now you can do things to try to weigh the dice in your favor a little bit more, but luck plays a giant part because you can't read their minds. So it's really up to them.

Speaker 2: 22:09

We can as much as we can. We can look into the weather, but listen after the day. We don't know the weather until it. Like I had no idea today's hunt, I had no idea it was gonna rain or ice. It actually was icing today. I looked on the. It did not say that at all. Now, is that a good thing to me? Yeah, it definitely, definitely is a good thing and that's what you kind of want to see. But like you just don't know, until you need that perfect condition, you can have the wind swirling on you. You know, peyton told me the other day he went out and what the wind said on the map was not what the wind he was getting when he actually got down there Exactly. So you, there is luck involved in that.

Speaker 1: 23:00

Also, like Kyle was talking, with those terrain features, swirling the wind, it's like also really important to play, to play, pay attention to that. I think one of the things that I'm gonna do going forward is I think I'm gonna start right now for my wind checker. I'm using those little bottles, the wind, the puffer, and I think I'm definitely gonna start switching to that milkweed where you can see how it I kind of move it for a longer distance.

Speaker 1: 23:22

Yeah, I think it's just. I think it's important and cause right now it's, I'm limited to bless you, I'm limited to like this much room, you know, yeah, so I definitely actually the.

Speaker 2: 23:35

I actually gotta go check it. The milkweed should be in the mail. I got the the hunting, the hunting public's little milkweed I saw it was cheap. I was like, yeah, but you know cause? I use the spray too. But you're limited on. You really wanna see where it goes down and how things are pulling and everything like that to get a direct idea of you know what the wind and thermals are doing.

Speaker 2: 24:01

But, as I was saying with Maine, he said that typically they don't really start seeing activity till the third week of rifle season, which that would be starting this week, which I was really surprised by that, because it's such a colder state that I would have thought and I feel like the days are a little shorter up there than it is over here closer to Canada and everything like that that the rut would be a little before hours. You know, maybe activity would start a little sooner. That's usually my, you know, thinking, but it's always for me, you know, we're not scientists, we're not like you, just you just don't know. But and then also, you know, this morning they had a pretty cool encounter. They saw a young bull crossing the road this morning and as soon as he got into the woodline, a massive bull stepped out and started following the other one. So they've been.

Speaker 2: 24:59

They've been seeing some moose, and they saw a lynx, a beautiful lynx. I've only seen a paw of a lynx. I've yet to see a lynx in Maine. I've seen Bobcat, coyotes, foxes, so lynx, a full lynx and black bear are the only animals in Maine I've yet to see. So it is a really unique thing, you know. So, peyton, we definitely got to get up there for a hunt next year For a few days. You know the bears around here, though.

Speaker 1: 25:27

Yeah, I'm good on that Listen.

Speaker 2: 25:30

Maine. Well, here's the thing you don't. I'm telling you, I've been going to, and I tell people this all the time. I've been traveling to Maine since I was a little kid, you know. I go every summer week, two weeks, three weeks, never, never seen a black bear in Maine. I've gone up and where my family's gone before me and they've seen bears, but when I get up there, nothing. I've seen moose. I've seen hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of moose, you know. I've seen deer. I've seen everything. I've seen Bobcats, you know we just just not not a, not a Maine black bear. And it is different. Everything's bigger in Maine. The deer, the does are like our bucks. I am telling you, it is so different and everything's so big there. It is absolutely remarkable. But that's the update for you guys in Maine. Dave, let's hear the update so far of your season and Long Island.

Speaker 4: 26:32

All right. So I mean I was talking to Payton before we got going here. You know I got I dropped a doe earlier in the season, so that's good. That kind of kind of takes the pressure off. You know you got meat in the freezer. You know it's just a good boost of confidence. You know your equipment's good. It's like all right, you know let's roll into it Now. Let's roll into late October, early November. Honestly, you know I'm a big fan of the Maltry cameras. I've been running I think I'm up to six of them now and they were doing good.

Speaker 4: 27:02

I was very happy with my location, combining them with a scent rope and you know a lot of them in swampy areas and they were producing, honestly, for the most part right at the edges of daylight, whether it's just, you know, favoring the nighttime daylight or just before sunrise. And for late October I'm like you know what. This isn't bad, you know, just for them to be on the cusp of daylight like that, either direction. I'm like in a week or two, you know, this should be good. So I kind of last season was my first season really fully on public land and I caught myself spreading myself too thin. I was trying too many different spots I got I would hunt the morning, said oh, I didn't see nothing. Let me go to a completely different area for the afternoon. And in a way that was good, because last season I got to learn, you know I was doing my scouting while I was hunting, which in a way helped me prepare for this season. I didn't have to do as much scouting, but mainly I'm concentrating now. Let's say, instead of trying to hunt 10 different areas, I took three. I'm like I'm gonna commit to these three. One of them I felt good about and I've had good hunts there in the past. So instead of trying to get all over the place, I'm like look, take this one spot and literally hunt it from corner to corner, all directions. Learn that patch of woods, learn what's there, really diagnose it. And that's where I started getting more success with the cameras. You know getting some good bucks on camera and you know you get, you get into towards these.

Speaker 4: 28:32

That first week of November. You know you get a lot of pressure on the public land. You see a lot more hunters at the spots. So that's definitely a reality. You know guys that come in you know this may be their only week to hunt. So you know you don't really know where they're going, what time they're coming in. I know one guy came in real late on one morning. It is what it is, though you know it's. You got people walking their dogs, riding their bikes. You know they're enjoying the weather too, but it's just it's like really like a half hour before dark or a half hour after sunrise you got to come through with your electric bike. It's like, oh, but it is what it is.

Speaker 4: 29:11

I started I caught myself doing old. Oh. I did an all day sit in October, end of October. That one didn't bother me. That was right on the edge of a rain ban that was moving through. So it was the one and I think I talked to you about it, mike where it ended up just being way too way too hot. It ended up being like 80 degrees in the afternoon and it was just. That was me kind of trying to force the situation Like the morning sit was good. It was only in like the fifties in the morning. I knew it was going to get warm, but 80 degrees end of October. I could have just pulled the plug, sat until 1030 and just you know, call it a day at that point, or leave and come back for the last hour or two in the afternoon so that you know and that was on me, I kind of like I said that was me trying to force a scenario, force a hunt you got to take what the woods has given you, what the deer are giving you, and you got to be able to read that, to diagnose that, so you can kind of learn. You know, if you make a mistake, you learn from it, you apply that moving forward and as long as you learn from it, that's all.

Speaker 4: 30:14

Recently, you know. More recently, you know, I did another all day sit today and again Mike, we were just talking about this and maybe Peyton, you heard a little bit of it I was in the same spot as I was yesterday morning, where covered up in those by like 615, 630. I was able to grunt in. You know that hair frack buck or he broke off it real would have been a real nice buck and he came right in, came running in underneath me. It was a great encounter. I'm like this is. I'm like here we go, this is it. And I have not had, I've had one good encounter with one of my shooter bucks, but he came in, he was at like 60 yards and he just kind of was doing his thing. He didn't know I was there. I feel comfortable saying that because he was just doing his thing and instead of turning towards me he just kind of kept on his path. So I was like shit, yeah, 20 more yards, man, and that's a shot, and it's one of those big ones I've had on camera, and so I feel like I'm one step behind in a way.

Speaker 4: 31:14

I don't want to say I don't know that piece, that I miss it. I miss it in one piece of the puzzle whether it's luck, timing, all the above I don't know enough about, like barometric pressures and all that, like I know, wind and temperatures and all that that we need for November. One thing that I realized today was the pressure was a lot higher this morning and I had good activity, even though the temperature stayed the same. The wind stayed pretty constant. As the day went on, the pressure was going down. So whether or not that equals a slow afternoon for me I don't know, but for it to be in the 30s with a light wind roughly out of the North in November, I mean, if you had to take a chance. That's a good day to do it all day. I said it just was a slow afternoon, but that's kind of the risk versus reward. So I chose today to try and do it, but to no avail?

Speaker 2: 32:07

not yet. And that goes back to what we're saying, like yeah, you know what on you. Typically you know, and someone can correct me if I'm wrong but the higher the pressure, usually the deer are going to be moving a little more.

Speaker 4: 32:22

I think overall that would be like, simply put, like I was, it was over like 30, I guess it's measured in inches at that point. Yeah, it was over 30, like almost like 30.5. This morning I was like, ooh, nice, I'll combine that with low 30 temperature and a light wind. I'm like that's that's home run for November. One thing I have been noticing which I like in general a lot of those everywhere I go where all my cameras are. I got a lot of those around me. So that's good. I kind of have like a saying, like in my dose, I trust, because overall you have to.

Speaker 4: 32:54

You have to. So it's just, it is odd when you get covered up with these dose and then you have nothing around Like where, where is even that young buck Like just kind of around bumping them in? It's like what's that?

Speaker 2: 33:07

That's the weird part, and that's that's what we were talking about. Peyton and I. Peyton and I talk now every single day, you know, especially when we're out in the woods, like we're running so much stuff by each other, like we pull up to each other, like we sit after we hunt and we talk. You know, we call each other, we're running so many things by each other and something that we're coming to conclusion is where is? Like even today, I had a lone doe come in and you would think at this time of the year, even a little spike or something should be following. Now I don't think she's 100% not in heat, Like you could tell that already. They're you know the glands that she has down. They're white still, okay, you know, I know they usually turn. They're not the fossil glands. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, I know they. Well, it cracked me up, I'm wrong. Yet again, they turn black usually once they start getting to see in the year.

Speaker 2: 34:07

Yeah, dark brown, black, whatever. Whatever. It's just a discolored Like a stain. Yeah, yeah, they get stained. That was white, so to me that's showing she's not. She's not ready yet. Maybe the does that are already. Like Kyle said, the bigger mature bucks are probably already you know, you know bedded down and everything with them, but something, and we need a good point.

Speaker 4: 34:31

We might be on that transition phase from that hardcore running chasing aspect and we're right on that transition of lockdown phase and that's that's where maybe get all right. This six point is going to bump a door with two, maybe a young eight. You'll see them run around in the morning a little bit but I think we're on the tail end because I have had maybe four, maybe five sits where I had good full on. I'll call it full rut activity with the full chasing. One of it was even with a I don't know if you saw the video I had a piebald getting chased around which that was my first experience of one of them Freaking thing ended up getting chased right onto me. I mean as far as I wasn't going to shoot it because I heard it's bad luck if you shoot them.

Speaker 2: 35:11

Yeah, that's what. That's what I've heard too. Yeah.

Speaker 4: 35:13

I just kept the camera going. So I mean, as far as like what we're, what we're all trying to do here and get some footage, you know that's, that's all great and good, but it's. I got a lot of arrow go sooner or later here you listen, listen, you're.

Speaker 2: 35:29

You're preaching because I have yet to even get that dough which I, like you know, I've talked about so many times. And I preach about this. Lynn, like you said, you get that meat in the freezer. It takes a little bit of weight off your shoulders. I'm still very confident. I was talking to to American Mike today. Congratulations to American Mike. Smoke day you should be on Sunday, so huge congrats to him. We'll be getting him on, you know, to complete our free American Mike campaign part two episode with him.

Speaker 2: 36:00

But Back with a vengeance. That man, yeah, he yeah, Back with it, back with a vengeance, back, you know, and I don't blame him at all, you know, I don't at all and that's it. It was needed and I'm very happy for him, like. So kudos to him. But, man, I, the last few times I've had these doves yesterday had that door, today had that dough I drew back, just so, yet again, you're seeing what you can get away with. You want to make sure everything is still good, that you can draw back slowly and everything like that. So you're going through the motions. It was hard, it was so hard. Like whenever I do that, I don't look at it, as you know I look that's food right there.

Speaker 1: 36:47

And I start to get hungry.

Speaker 2: 36:52

I start to get hungry. Even the dough that I drew back on the other on Saturday's hunt, she was even. She was a big dough. This was a really, this would have been a really nice. And I was like you know what you're? I was like girl, you're very lucky, I need doughs. I need doughs around where we are hunting, painting and I. That is my only concern and it's been my concern for the past two, three years is this time of the year it's so much harder because the dough, the buck to dough ratio, I tell people it's like seven to three.

Speaker 1: 37:30

I really don't see many does there at all.

Speaker 2: 37:32

We don't see many does Hardly at all.

Speaker 4: 37:36

I mean even your area, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 37:40

Which is, you still get them and you still see them. But it's just, it's.

Speaker 2: 37:45

Far, far in few, the, the big mature bucks, if they find what they have there, and then they're definitely leaving, Right. But it's also you're, you're limiting yourself because you want to find those doughs, you want good numbers of doughs. And then it also makes it harder because you know that's why you don't see, you're not going to see me go shoot three, four, five doughs, because I really can't do that. I'm not in an area where I can. So I'll take one, I'll take maybe two, bounce it between different spots, but like I still usually will be like hey, you know what, Let me. I need her to stay. I need that dough to stay around for this time of the year. Today I need, I need that dough because she's not hot. But I guarantee you, if not by the end of the week, by next week, that those two does will be hot does.

Speaker 1: 38:44

If I wanted to shoot a dough this year, maybe one one shot opportunity I've had. Oh well, actually no two or two this year, you know, just this year in general you know I've had shot opportunities, you know on little bucks, little, you know four corns and spikes and everything like that. But you know, even if I wanted to shoot a dough I didn't.

Speaker 2: 39:07

I'm very limited, just, and I think it tells you a lot about you know, just counting the deer that I've seen, and I count on one hand how many does which that area which, if you're chasing big bucks for this time of the year, it's great pro, it is like or if you're chasing big bucks, I want this is a great problem to have, like we're not complaining about. But when you're looking to fill the freezer, when you're looking to let it arrow fly, when you're looking also for the right for this time where you really want to see that chasing, that's where you get the downfall. And I guarantee this summer I already know my list, like I told you last time we talked. You know, dave, we've gone on this before. You're already checking off the stuff that you need to do for next year. You're already getting that list together.

Speaker 2: 39:53

You're already correcting your intel, for you know it's just a revolving door that right there is going to find, outside of where we are, a whole new area where it has a lot of doughs. I want a dough magnet spot. I don't care if there's big bucks there. I was telling Peyton one of my spots. I was like I need doughs and I, you know I found those and I was like, yes, like I got doughs. And then a big buck showed up and I was like, oh my God.

Speaker 1: 40:21

Which is exactly why I shot that deer in Maryland this year. You know it's like a seven acre piece that we turkey hunt and but they're just piles and piles of doughs just moving through. And I was talking to my dad that day. It was just like he's like well, let's go out, you shoot a deer, get some meat in the freezer. And I was thinking like just something in my head. I was like there's a lot of doughs there getting me that time of year. You might see some bucks coming through. You know, just because you know they're not living there, they have no interest in being there. Aside for this one sole reason, this one small window of the year and it worked out in a textbook First sit shot, shot that deer. But you know it is finding the doughs this time of year. Like Mike saying, it is a good problem to have every other time of year, aside from right now. Right.

Speaker 4: 41:08

Yeah, they can become. They can kind of jam you up though real quick. I think it was. I would have to check my notebook. I think it was like two or three hunts ago I had three of them.

Speaker 4: 41:17

Three doughs come in and I'm sitting right on a run it's pretty much on a bench, so about three quarters of the way up, so that that run cuts. You know, they're just following that hill and I'm about 20 yards, not even about 15 yards off that run, and I see them coming. They're on the run, they hit the center rope, they get in front of my camera and they keep coming. I'm just kind of sitting still, I'm on the camera watching them and I'm kind of just hoping they just breeze right through, cause I'm like I don't need three doughs in front of me right now. That's six sets of eyes, that's three noses. I got to be like I don't need this right now. It's like eight, 30. They didn't leave man. One of them came to like 12 yards, just like basically under my tree, the other ones at 20, the other ones somewhere in the middle. And you know, here comes the nanny dog. Now just start walking in. Just, she didn't know I was there and all of a sudden, here we go. Here comes the foot stomp, the whole. You know the neck bob, and I'm like it's the second time you've done this to me. I'm not here for you, but you do this again. You're going to have a long rest of the afternoon, I can promise you that that's.

Speaker 4: 42:23

I have two scenarios like that, two different spots where I swear there's no way she she winded me, saw me. I think that's just publicly in pressure because they're starting to walk in now and looking up. They're walking in and they're looking up in the trees at this point and it's only you know only November. So it's like, look, we got two weeks left of real good, you know buck activity. Let's see. If you guys are going to mess around, I'm going to have to get rid of you. That's really the only time I'll shoot a doe in November and I have two does and I know which ones they are. If I get a chance out of my will take them out.

Speaker 2: 42:59

Yeah, yeah, same I agree.

Speaker 4: 43:03

You want to keep them around as as soon as you can early season, as long as you can in November. Um yeah, I'm going up upstate New York for the open a weekend in about a week, so pretty much.

Speaker 3: 43:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: 43:16

Well, pretty much the weekend. Thanksgiving went on more, if that's like my last, like rut hunts. After that, everything's on the table. That's when it really starts becoming a meat hunt.

Speaker 2: 43:24

At that point, yeah, I agree, I told, uh, I told Bianca. I was like, listen, I'm hunting hard until Thanksgiving. You know once, usually that Thanksgiving time, that's where it's like, all right, I'm probably just going to go out and pop a doe and, if you know, eventually the bucks are going to come back to a more normal pattern and it's going to be crazy. So I'm not worried. I would like to get my buck out the way, but I'm not worried. We still have, especially here in Jersey, we saw the rest of permanent season and then we still have winter bell and then we still we still have six day and then we still have winter bell, right when, as long as it's cold and a little bit of snow. I'm not asking for a lot of snow, I mean, listen, I'm a huge winter person, I love snow. So like that'd be great, but like we need more than what we had last year.

Speaker 4: 44:19

Yeah Right, they can be difficult. I feel like we think like oh, the ruts coming, it'll make our lives easier.

Speaker 2: 44:26

It is so difficult.

Speaker 1: 44:28

It's just, they all seem to worry, andrew.

Speaker 2: 44:32

Literally Andrew and I were talking. Andrew's been saying this since I've known him now for a little, so we're on, you know, for the last two years that we've been doing. He talks, he hates hunting, the rut. Just because and when I and I don't want to use his words, but like you know what I mean I don't want to say, but like it is such a it's so hard because there's so many different scenarios and the deer, the bucks, are just on this crazy. It's like I keep telling everyone. It's like they're freaking out at 21 at the club, getting hammered, doing cocaine and then just trying to have sex. That's all they're trying to do. Right, it is, but they get back into that pattern after and they're getting back into we just lost 35%. Usually they they lose about 35% of their body weight from the rut.

Speaker 2: 45:25

What time is it? They need to pack on those calories, they need food, they need this and when you have the snow that you can kind of help one track them a little better, figure out where they're bedding frozen water. But it's also their food sources start to dwindle. So it's going to get them up and moving and if you can get a natural food source that's going to stand there long and in the winter. Great. If you're in a state like Jersey or wherever where you can bait, you get you got to hit those bait and we're not telling, listen, we use that I've been doing this year bait up here, scrape down there and you're hunting somewhere in in the middle or around so you don't have to hunt over bait. You know I'm I've definitely tried this year to definitely move off of bait, which has worked very well for me. You know obviously I haven't shot anything yet, but you know it has worked very well for me.

Speaker 2: 46:23

I don't put out any bait this year and I like you know, what I like bait for Dose and that's a big part is dose, and then also seeing what you have there, it kind of concentrates them and that's.

Speaker 4: 46:37

I use a lot of that for Intel.

Speaker 2: 46:41

You were going to say something.

Speaker 1: 46:44

Well, I was just going to say, like you know what is, you could find those natural food sources too.

Speaker 1: 46:48

You know it's, and that's something that I'm going to be spending a lot of time looking into.

Speaker 1: 46:51

You know, finding like the oak's drop at different times, whether it's that red oak, the white oak, the black oak you know finding that too, and then finding you know what the browse they're eating. And I think, like you were saying, if we do get that cold winter and it is that snow I know Tony Peterson was talking about this on the wire to hunt podcast the other day. He was hunting South Dakota and it was just like one single oak and a snow and that snow storm and that's just what they would all flock to and that's how he ended up getting it done and you know, I don't think he didn't seem like it was too much for rod activity, but it was just like a situation in which you know some of us in Long Island I don't not sure what the Long Island weather is like, but out in, you know Northwest Jersey you can start to expect some of that patterns in January and late December that you have to look forward to. Still, yep.

Speaker 2: 47:38

Definitely, definitely. We're going to wrap this up one up soon. Let's get into Bobby's hunt real quick. So, bobby, one of our guys, he was out in Virginia, on the border of West Virginia, at George Washington National Forest. For those of you who are not familiar with it, pete, and I believe you've hunted there too. This is not the easiest terrain.

Speaker 1: 48:05

It is deep, it is it is legit, it is nothing to fool with and I've not I've deer hunted it, but I've turkey hunted it and you know you're going straight up a thousand feet and you know it's not, it's not uncommon, its access is tough up there. What is the name of the game is finding access and getting to those spots.

Speaker 2: 48:28

So something Bobby likes to do. He did it on Elk and he's new to hunting, right, but he's gone backpack for Elk in Colorado and now he did this. So they weren't staying at a hotel, they weren't staying at a cab and they were. So they rolled in, set up camp in snow and limited visibility, a lot of fog. They set up camp on top of a ridge line that was off service, off the service road. There was a road that ran across the ridge. So they drove down about 1.5 miles and you know traverse down to the basin.

Speaker 2: 49:04

On the way down we were seeing tons of sign, mostly scrapes and licks. We were on hot sign. We were able to pull out a hair from one of the lick branches. We got down into the basin and that had a dried up creek bottom and made a ground blind for the evening. Set set and called with grunts and snort. We used for about 30 minutes and started to see antlers on the ground About 10 minutes of you know combo. They had a buck respond. He grunted and he came within 100 yards. He then circled to get downwind of us and caught our scent. Then of course he blew at them and took off on top of the ridge. The next day they went back to the same spot. We both sat on the opposite sides of the creek bottom and hung probably 200 yards from each other on top of the ridges where super thick Now he added something the night before.

Speaker 2: 50:03

We actually tried to find an easier way in and ended up walking through the laurels and the dark tons of scythe rubbed beds. We could only take one step at a time or walk on our hands and knees through the laurels, so great place for them and they were obviously up there. Back to the second morning. We hung in the morning at about 9.30. We had a buck come in from the night before. He was a good six pointer but very mature deer using same grunts. We got another buck to come in which was a little bigger and he had eight points, probably close to 185 pounds, he would say. He ran out the laurels about 80 yards up the ridge, snort weas and that went back right into the laurel. So it seems like if they had more time they probably would have gotten a good poke and that's really what you could ask for. Going to a brand new spot I don't think he's ever scouted it before Tough mountain country. I would say that that was a hell of a hunt and he got close.

Speaker 2: 51:05

Great, great. You can't really ask for much, for much else. And you know, one thing he definitely said when he got back was the good thing is there isn't much pressure. These deer aren't pressured. It's a tough area to hunt, so people really are getting up there.

Speaker 1: 51:22

Two million acres. So they get to, they get to spread out. It's literally, it's like I don't know 50 miles wide and runs the entire Virginia West Virginia border all the way up from the Tennessee line to Maryland. It's huge, that's big yeah that's big.

Speaker 3: 51:41

So there's a lot of land.

Speaker 2: 51:45

So good ups to him. And then, quickly, I'll get you guys to recap the last week. It's gone well, I am not going to complain at all. I had a heartbreaker, though. I've been moving a lot trying to find this, this buck, brutus. He's a big eight. He's paired with a buck named Zeke. He's a 10 pointer, but not as big of a body. Brutus is definitely the dominant buck, right? So I've been moving cameras all over the place trying to find them. Put one on top of a ridge, have one on the bottom, and let me tell you it worked. The only problem is on the last day before I had to go back to work, it was warmer. I was already run down and tired and I had to do.

Speaker 2: 52:35

I had to go out and do some stuff that I'll get into the next episode because, I will be able to release the information on the next episode because it's going down on Sunday. But so I was like you know what, let me go. I'm not going to hunt, I go, I'm going to go out, I'm going to move some cameras, yada, yada, yada and then I'm going to go home and I'm going to rest because I'm going to work crazy hours so I can get back out and hunt right away. Right, I go out and do that. I get home, I'm in bed. 410. Camera goes off. Okay, no, wait, no, no, it's a little four pointer.

Speaker 2: 53:17

All right, like cool Bone keeps going off, like oh, he must be working that scrape. Take a look. Boom, there is the eight pointer Brutus broad daylight, right in front of my camera. Now I'm not saying I'm a hundred percent sure I would have hunted that exact spot, because yet again I'm moving around, I'm being, you know, I got a lot of spots that I'm moving and cruising for Right.

Speaker 4: 53:45

But it's like you can never tell that the maybe the reason he's there is because you're not there, but I could have been that.

Speaker 2: 53:53

I listen, I was spraying hot to try it like crazy, and I think that's a big part of why he he came down there. Yeah, all right Then. So I was heartbroken, I went outside and I went for a run. I was running, I could not stop thinking about this, right, and a big part of it was, I don't even know if I would have been, he would have slowed down enough for me to get a shot, right, you don't know. You, the potential has been there, but to see where he came from, that would have that. I was more upset about the intel that I lost of. I would have been able to see exactly where he came from and where he went. That's where I really wanted to see. Of course I wanted a chance to kill him, don't get me wrong, but you just never know, right, I could have drawn back, like I did last year on on Kong. He was at 12 yards and he never gave me a shot, right, you just never know. But seeing that intel, so I was upset.

Speaker 4: 54:51

He still doesn't know he's being hunted yet, though, so that's a way.

Speaker 2: 54:54

I think he knows because there's other people in there. Like you said, I didn't know there was other people in there, then came to find out one of the days when I went out in the morning. There's other people in there. Nothing I can do, but I am doing my best, moving and grooving and doing my best. So the new spot I set up is up on top of the ridge and he was there every day that I was at work, morning and evening, broad daylight. So he was daylighting three, three of the four. Three of the four days. Right, had him on a pretty good pattern.

Speaker 2: 55:29

I am pretty sure he's with a hot dough right now. He's been MIA for the past like two and a half three days, so I'm pretty sure he's with the dough. I'm waiting for him to come off that. I still haven't seen the 10 pointer yet because I think he got pushed out and he had to go find somewhere else. There was another buck, either a spike or a four pointer or whatever. His body might be as big as this eight pointers. I saw him this morning and let me tell you with the body like that and when I saw him I was like you know what?

Speaker 1: 56:06

You think it was one of those deer I had on camera that I sent you because there was some big, big four corn.

Speaker 2: 56:12

It could have been. I would have to. I'll send you the picture. But, dave, when I tell you this was a huge, rite it up and it's like, yeah, you know I want the big eight, but listen, a four pointer like that, or you know, I couldn't tell if he had times or anything. He could have been a six right.

Speaker 4: 56:31

I'm sure it's out there, but if you could see like a time lapse video, you take any buck, let's say. And you see the transformation from like mid-October to early November between the body size and neck size, the air start standing up. It really is amazing, like the science and the genetics behind let's call it like a three week span or maybe a little bit longer, but the transformation from beginning to end. It's truly until you start paying attention. Oh, my goodness, that's his body.

Speaker 2: 57:00

He doesn't have. If you look at his ant, like it's not anything crazy, I think he's a four or six. Yeah, it's very hard because you got the branch so I couldn't really tell, but he's a chunk.

Speaker 4: 57:14

I'm going to do it, man, you'll be the hand drugging him out.

Speaker 1: 57:17

Oh well, that was something else we talked about. Is that, you know, in Mike asked me. He was like well, should I hunt the ridge? It's a little harder to get to. And I'm just like, and this, like I've just looked out, it's almost like a hole's downhill.

Speaker 1: 57:34

Yeah, this is it. Might have been that I lucked out. I had a lot of help dragging the bear out, but it's like my my process doesn't get there. It's like I'm going to where I think I can kill one and I'll figure it out from there. And if I'm out, there I figured it out I figured

Speaker 3: 57:47

it out.

Speaker 1: 57:48

Cut it out into pieces, then I'll do it. But you know it's just like I don't think. If you are, you know, if your objectives go kill a big buck, go to where the big bucks are and figure it out the rest of that bridge when you get there. I listen to terrible advice and you might be cursing me if you actually follow that and you shoot one, but then you'll, you'll thank yourself, you'll forget about that Sucking.

Speaker 2: 58:09

You're going to someone's going to take your advice and shoot a giant buck like three miles in a swamp and be like I should have never listened to this Peyton kid Like are you kidding me Like for a couple hours and then thank me for years.

Speaker 4: 58:24

So I listen, I figured it out Like you said yeah, yeah, when you sit, I do fun.

Speaker 2: 58:32

Yeah, we are, we're going. When I shoot a deer, if he doesn't run up and he goes down, we're going down, we're dragging him all the way out into my other spot where the pot because, like I said, there's a top and there's a bottom. I got two spots. I looked at the map. We can use it. Actually I was a lot close. It's not as far as it's just sick Big, big big. That's what. That's what they like. But let's, we want to talk some grunt talk. You know, and, dave, you just pulled it out, you got the primos. What is it called? Primo's buck, grunt.

Speaker 4: 59:09

Yeah, actually I'm going to talk about this. So yeah, it's the. This is what I used the other day in that video and it's the Primo's grunt weasel. So this is the snort weasel tube on a top top there. And then, mike, this is actually where me and you had a difference in opinion, and you know we can talk about it real quick. I know we're getting towards the end here. So when you take the mouthpiece off on this, one just slides apart real easy. It's the rubber O-ring style. Can you guys see that? I don't know where to put it.

Speaker 1: 59:36

Yeah, you're good right there, yeah, right there.

Speaker 4: 59:38

So that's the O-ring right there and then as you slide that basically it's like a, like a duck hole. It's got the reed when it's vibrate. This is what makes your tone so right now it's all the way towards the bottom down on. I think they call it like trophy buck. So real deep, guttural sound. The higher up you slide it you'll get into young buck, young doe, doe bleat, estrus bleat, and you know real, real simple to blow, I like it. So it's got a good deep sound. You know again, as you slide that O-ring up it'll get more of a high pitch. You do have to adjust how you. You know you're half. For you it's like a goose goal almost it's got to come from your diaphragm so you should feel your belly going in and out when you're blowing on it. You can kind of cup your hands.

Speaker 4: 1:00:27

I don't want to give too many tips on calling. I don't call a lot. I keep it very simple For whatever it is worth. In that video I was able to stop that buck, turn that buck and get them to come in like on a string, like he was looking like ready for the smoke. So again, I keep it very simple. I don't do it a lot. But if I had to choose, maybe, between a grunt and my rattle bag, I would say I'm probably going to take my grunt. You know this one in particular, more than the rattle bag. At the very least it can give you that quick. If they are running, you can hit them with a quick, you know, and chances are they'll at least stop.

Speaker 1: 1:01:03

You know, do you think cupping your hands like you said I've noticed that too is that creating that back pressure like on?

Speaker 4: 1:01:07

a little bit more, little more, little more.

Speaker 1: 1:01:11

Yeah, it's a little. I think it makes it a little deeper and a little better sounding too, so that's a good tip.

Speaker 2: 1:01:16

Yeah, I will definitely say that. So this is my favorite call. This is what I use. I've bought others. I have the other one that has as well. It's the extinguisher, yeah. And that's slides, and we Peyton and I talked about this off camera a few days ago, but that one just seems more high pitched right.

Speaker 2: 1:01:36

When you're making that buck, call the one the Primo's. That sounds like a mature buck, like that's what you want. Yes, you can also change it where you can. It'll go a little higher. I also like that too as well, so you can change it for different tones. You can make it seem like there's more deer there and also, you know, with the extinguisher you don't really get that. And then also I'm a huge snort weas person. Like I am a huge, like I will throw that in, especially if I see a deer in the distance I will grunt, grunt, grunt and then snort weas are one grunt and then a big snort weas. If that gets their attention, sometimes it intimidates them and I've talked about this on the podcast before. That's where you sometimes you're going to intimidate a deer. Sometimes the younger ones get curious and they still come in, sometimes the bigger ones where you think that, oh, you're going to challenge this, this bigger buck, he doesn't want anything to do with it. You know, deer are very unique. They all have their own personalities, just like humans and everything like that. You're going to get those bruisers, you get those fighters and then you get those timid ones. You know, you just don't know, but I do like having the snort weas in my back pocket.

Speaker 2: 1:02:59

It's not always going to work. Grunting doesn't always work. Rattling doesn't always work. It does help. It's situational, like Andrew always says, but it's something that you could use. It's unique, especially this time of the year. This is really the only time of the year I really use it. I really use it and end of October till probably thanks, probably till Thanksgiving, maybe a little after Thanksgiving if I see some activity that still says I should. But after that, I'm not a big grunt person. I'm not a big rattle person either. I do carry the rattle which we'll get into when we talk about what we carry for our all day sit, but I'm not a huge rat. I haven't had the same success that I have with grunting and snort weas in that deer.

Speaker 4: 1:03:52

The best little piece of advice I could give maybe like a new hunter or a first year hunter obviously need to be in the scenario, but actually listen to young deer, young bucks, a more mature deer, listen to the dose, how they vocalize with each other, I think, calling we go down like the YouTube rabbit holes, whether it's for deer, turkey, waterfowl, the cadence, all this other. In nature the animals are very simplistic with their vocalizations and their calls. I heard it all this morning, the young buck, and it was very low but it was more of a drawn out, it was almost like a brick. But again, a lot of times they do it without even opening their mouth. So it's a different pitch, it's a different sound, it's very guttural, I guess is the best way to describe it. So the best advice I could say is even just record them on your phone and listen to it when you get home.

Speaker 4: 1:04:50

It's like when you're turkey hunting and you're worried about what your turkey call sounds like, but meanwhile you listen to the hens and you're like, wait a minute, is that a hunter or is that the real thing? We get so caught up with how we sound and then you hear the real thing in real life and it's like, oh man, that sounds nothing like what I was trying to do. So a couple of quick little grunts the Storgvies can be effective. I think I've scared more deer off as soon as I saw these. All I see is tails. I'm like all for three. I think were the Storgvies. But it's worth the shot If they're already going the last ditch effort.

Speaker 4: 1:05:24

Yeah, you never know, it could just be that one thing. That's long.

Speaker 2: 1:05:27

What else you got to lose at that point. And that's what I usually use it, as it's really got to be a buck that he is clear, because I've grunted to and they just don't pay any attention. But I want to hit that with that grunt and the snort weasel. That's where I'll usually get them to stop Right. Yes, I've had deer tucked tail in and run away. I've had deer come in and I've had to just look I'm curious for a second. But you know what I think I want to try to find me a doe and just slowly casually walk off. So you just never know what you're going to get. So so last real quick part will go Peyton, why don't you Talk about this one, since this was your topic?

Speaker 1: 1:06:15

Yeah. So I had this idea. I was packing for the all day sets I did all day set Friday, all day sets at Erty and I started to think of, like, what to put in and I was like, oh, it kind of be cool to talk about. I know a lot of people done it. It might be, you know, kind of beat down, but I had some, I think, some unique things that I've been running. So the one thing was actually a Mark Kenyon suggestion was all those snacks I bring in is like which is just you know little stuff is. I put those silicone ziplock bags, take everything out and I put it all in there much quieter, which I think is a power move going forward.

Speaker 1: 1:06:53

Power banks I try not to be on my phone too much in the stand, but when you're sitting for 12 straight hours you're going to need to, you know. And especially it's like where we haunt and I was going in deep it's just a safety thing, you know, using that on X to get out, especially like situations like Bobby. You know, when you're out in those those hills, it's a safety thing using that to get out. I learned this one from a buddy. That's well, I think we both kind of came to the same conclusion. But you know he's hiking the Appalachian Trail. It's like keep those, those like Charmin wet wipes, in your bag when those come in handy. It's small, very small. Coming back, coming handy, there's the, the rattle antler, something I carry too, the rattle bag. I don't use them. I think I have an opinion on rattling that it almost has to be done from the ground. You know, kicking the leaves and breaking sticks and stuff. You know I think it sounds really unrealistic if you're having a full blown deer fight and there's nothing else going on.

Speaker 1: 1:07:55

So the method where guys lower them down with that pull up rope, and then my dad does that we talked about that a couple of weeks ago and he hangs them from the pull rope. But you can't do it with a rattle bag though, so it's like that's the trade off.

Speaker 4: 1:08:06

You need the real things, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:08:09

So it's kind of like you're kind of committing to either you hone on the ground and you're going to rattle or you're not going to rattle in the trees kind of where I'm at with that. But yeah, I mean other than that. The biggest thing that I've kind of run into is you got to also and me and American Mike were deeming back and forth on Instagram about this is like you got to carry your clothes in, especially this time of year, and if you're going in deep. You know, I went in like a mile and I walked in with the back, all the jackets strapped up, and still wasn't enough. I got in and once you start sweating and then you get up in the tree and then I'm ripping all the layers off. The 10 minutes later, on a 32 degree morning, I'm piling them all back on and it's just not the same because they're a little damp and they're a little steamy. Now I'm shivering, yeah. So you gotta make sure that.

Speaker 4: 1:08:57

I'm going to show you back on on your conversation there and I'll leave and I'll put a different spin on it. If you know you're going to do an all day sit, your prep work for that all day sit actually starts the day before, 100%. So you want to get hydrated. You know fully hydrated multi vitamins. You know we should be taking them. We're not getting any younger so we should be taking our vitamins anyway. But definitely make sure you're hydrated. You got your vitamins playing out, honestly, your dinner the night before accordingly.

Speaker 4: 1:09:27

You know, just for all the reasons we're kind of talking about here, don't go on a Taco Bell splurge. You know, the night before and all day sit, try and keep it. You know clean, filling, simple things like keeping your pack like Pepto-Bismol in case you do get a you know sour stomach or whatever Water, any type of like electrolyte solution. You know whether it's Gatorade or whatever. You want anything like that. That's really it, man. I definitely, I totally agree.

Speaker 4: 1:09:56

If you start sweating, you got a long day ahead of you. So either, like I'm not a big jacket guy, I wear it's all my base layers like. This was one of them and I was lucky enough, my walk in today wasn't too far. If I would have gone any further I would have had to start stripping down the layers. But I agree, go in with as least amount on as possible. As soon as you get to your tree, pretty much I slap it back on. Yeah, portable charges, absolutely, you know, for us with the cameras, have your extra batteries, you know. Headlamps, compass, you know there is a joke, an inside joke going around on our lives about the compass. They're small, they don't take up a lot of room, they're not heavy. God forbid you for any reason. You don't have service on your phone. Your battery really does go dead. At least you have a compass, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:10:41

Now the thing there is when I hunted Virginia, I was anticipating no service. You can download specific areas on ONNX and you can work them offline, and your GPS will still work without service.

Speaker 4: 1:10:53

So that's another road tip.

Speaker 1: 1:10:54

If you're going into an area where you're not going to have service. Pick out those areas you want to hunt, do your e-scouting and then download all those maps. You can download big, big areas. It's just like a PDF, it doesn't take up a lot of space on your phone and then your GPS will still work, it'll still point you, your compass will still work without service and you can still get out that way. But yeah, compass is also something a good idea.

Speaker 4: 1:11:20

Yeah, that's a real little tip. I didn't know it, I didn't even think of that. That's good, 100% yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:11:29

There really isn't much for me to add. I mean, in my pack it's kind of all the same things. I did a rookie mistake and I left my GoPro batteries in the truck today because I charged them and I forgot to put them in my pack. I'm a liquid IV person, so I actually have a bag in my hunting bag Liquid IV batteries from double A to triple A. I have vitamin emergency in there too as well.

Speaker 4: 1:11:59

Yeah, I'd be frozen, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:12:03

Of course, listen dude wipes. I'm a dude wipes person, but anything toilet paper, whatever, that is essential, Especially what I like about toilet paper. If you want to just do the toilet paper at Avenue, that could also be used in your after kill kit as well.

Speaker 1: 1:12:18

In your track and de-accelerate stuff like that. I actually use what I use with that and you don't leave that ugly pink marking tape that you see all through the woods that I hate to look at. You get a good rain, it dissolves and it's gone and nobody has to look at it Not that forever plastic.

Speaker 2: 1:12:33

I like to bring.

Speaker 2: 1:12:34

I don't have it with me, but my bow tool just a little wrench, just because I've had things just get loose on me and you don't want to have to track all the way back to the truck, because I keep one in the truck, I keep one in my house and I keep one on me at all time, just in case. This year, more than ever, my bow equipment has gotten loose and I think it's because I'm going in such thick stuff. I am not like my bow has taken a beating this year, even getting up in the saddle, like I've hunted more than I've probably ever so far in my last two years out of a saddle. So even sometimes like I'm getting in trees that have branches all over the place, it's taken a beating. It hits into the stick Like it's just taken a beating. So that is very important as well. Extra water but I love what Dave said. He hit it a hundred percent on the head. Hydrate before. Eat the proper food.

Speaker 2: 1:13:30

Listen, I will tell you guys personally, and I haven't had a sip of alcohol since August 5th, since my 30th birthday. I will tell you from doing that and changing my eating habits. Now don't get me wrong, I'm starting to get into the realm. Where I actually talked to my doctor today, I was like hey, listen, I'm about to start drinking again and it's the holidays, so, like you know. But I think from now on, this is what I'm going to do, starting probably after my birthday. I'm just going to stop drinking until probably once the holidays start.

Speaker 2: 1:14:05

I feel a lot better. I got a lot more, a lot more energy. I actually caught a lot of weight, but it's also. I don't have to go to the bathroom as bad as I normally do, and everyone knows who knows me really well. Listen, I get stomach problems, especially when I drink, and then I'll start just eating whatever it hurts me for a morning hunt, because you know what I mean. That has actually helped me a lot, where I can get into the morning and not really have those stomach issues that I was having in the years prior. So that was actually, dave, I really liked that. That's what you said, because it is. It starts the day before.

Speaker 1: 1:14:45

Yeah, I'm bad about drinking water in the stand, like when I'm hot.

Speaker 2: 1:14:47

Me too.

Speaker 1: 1:14:48

Me too. I'm more often than not like I'll bring in water and I'll hardly touch it, so it's drinking chugging water when you get home and on the ride out in the night before it's weight though, too.

Speaker 4: 1:15:01

I mean I brought in five. I brought in five water bottles today, so that's a good amount. I mean I drank them all. I was in the tree, fully rigged up by six came out.

Speaker 1: 1:15:11

Now you're just running just like regular plastic water bottles.

Speaker 4: 1:15:15

Yeah, I got a. There's going to be a revamp in my setup. I've been thinking about that too.

Speaker 1: 1:15:22

Next season I've been running a Nalgene, but I think because I don't want to run a camelback. But I think the REI sells like bag water bottles, so it's like not going to clink around when I'm walking in.

Speaker 4: 1:15:33

I will say this If you're doing water bottles and you're done with them. Just drop them to the ground, because this new recycle plastic on all of them. If you even look at it, it just goes. Wow, this is like a water. It just cringes and it's loud. It's all on your way out.

Speaker 1: 1:15:49

Yeah, it's good.

Speaker 4: 1:15:50

It's done. I don't even put it back in my pack. I drop it to the ground. Then, obviously, yes, when you climb down you throw them back in your pack, but it don't matter at that point.

Speaker 1: 1:16:00

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:16:01

Real smart, real smart, anything else?

Speaker 4: 1:16:06

I think that would wrap everything up. I appreciate you having me on. I'll definitely do this again later on. Definitely, we're steady on the course here. That's really the game player.

Speaker 2: 1:16:16

Oh, yeah, definitely.

Speaker 4: 1:16:17

For me. It's more time in the stand equals better chance for me. That's who I'm at on my journey.

Speaker 1: 1:16:22

Keep that positive mental attitude.

Speaker 4: 1:16:24

I'm doing SAAI 10 the best way I know how, so that's how I'm doing it.

Speaker 3: 1:16:28

We're trying Awesome.

Speaker 4: 1:16:28

Awesome.

Speaker 2: 1:16:29

Deep it up, love it. Oh, one more we could talk off camera because Bianca is going to kill me if I don't start planning when we're going to the Great American Outdoor Show. She texts me more about the Great American Outdoor Show than like I. She literally texted me. She goes we need to get the dates together and I go for what she goes for dot dot, dot the Great American Outdoor Show. I go. She's always excited to go to the show, so we'll talk off camera about it. But thank you guys so much. I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. I'll see you guys next time.