A Thanksgiving Special: Mid-West Rut Report

Speaker 2: 0:21

Welcome back to a garden state outdoors and podcast presented by Boondocks hunting. I'm your host, mike Nitrae.

Speaker 1: 0:27

I'm Peyton Smith.

Speaker 2: 0:29

And happy Thanksgiving everybody. This is going to be our Thanksgiving podcast update. You know it's a few days away. It's crazy that we're already here. Like it feels like just yesterday that the season started, then we had Halloween and now, like I remember, it felt just literally like the other day that the rut had just started, and now we are a few days away from Thanksgiving Crazy, crazy, crazy time. So right now, peyton is in his home state of Maryland for the Thanksgiving week and I think he's been doing some hunting out there. How's that been going?

Speaker 1: 1:10

So I sat all day Friday on a piece of private that I really learned how to deer hunt on. It's just a 40 acre piece on Maryland's Eastern shore flat timber with some adjacent clear cuts, so some good bedding, and then you just kind of hunt the fringes of that and did it all day sit on Friday and there's three of us in this 40 acre piece of timber and only one person saw a deer right at last night. So for whatever reason it was a hot day, I don't know. Just not much movement. There's turkeys movement, turkeys everywhere. It's better not seeing anything, but I guess what we have seen.

Speaker 1: 1:59

On hanging out with my dad he runs a lot of cell cameras it seems like those bucks are back hitting some of his corn piles, hitting some of those food sources. So I wonder if a little bit of that chasing might have slowed down. I don't know, some people think it doesn't stop till December, but I know Andrew's got some pictures of deer in corn bucks, in corn piles and hitting food sources. So I wonder if maybe they're just refueling or maybe they're just maybe it's starting to slow down a little bit.

Speaker 2: 2:34

I think it could be a little bit of a mixture of both, because Brutus, he showed back up and I've actually been having a decent amount of bucks hitting feed, still hitting scrapes and everything like that, but now he disappeared again. So like now I'm back to like did he get shot or did he? Is he on like another hot dough? Because that dough, like I said last week, she is now she's hot.

Speaker 2: 3:02

And I haven't seen her at all today and she's been pretty consistent every morning, every day, like all throughout the day, and I have not seen her probably in the past almost 24 hours. Yeah, probably probably last 24 hours and I haven't seen him probably almost in the same, in the same time period.

Speaker 1: 3:25

Immediately after saying that, I'm remembering now wild times pursuit. On Instagram we DM back and forth and he sent me a video of his target buck chasing does not that long ago. So you know, maybe it's just kind of a kind of at a weird spot right now where you have kind of a mixture of bucks on and off that pattern. So it's an interesting time to be in the woods. But I got a couple days going to try to do a speed public land hunt while I'm home. Got out through some scouting for that on Sunday. So we'll see, hunt the hunt this week and see if we can't get one done in a quick turnaround, kind of a whatever walks out first situation for me. But I think it'd be cool to do that kind of just like kind of land in a spot, scout in on Sunday and then, you know, hunt it Wednesday and Thursday and maybe in the later in the week and see what happens to you when you get it done quick.

Speaker 2: 4:17

Yeah, no, and it's pretty. It's pretty interesting how you know we were talking as we do every day, sunday, no hunting in Maryland. So you took the time to scout, and then, interesting enough, where you're going to be hunting. You can't just go and just and just hunt, and I think you just said it just opened up as well. I think, like in mid November I think, they started allowing people to go hunting and everything like that. Talk about that a little bit like how unique and it'd be pretty cool. I mean, I know it's harder because there's so much more land, I think in Maryland, but you know that'd be actually not much.

Speaker 1: 4:56

Really New Jersey actually has more public land than Maryland does. Now maybe now the only reason I would think any otherwise is if you look out out West in Maryland like Washington, garrett, allegheny County, you get like big swaths of state forest land. But I mean that's not really accessible to me. Where where I'm at it's like a two hour drive. So kind of like where I'm at in central Maryland there's not a ton of options. You know it's pretty, it's pretty limited. So it's about finding, especially this time of year.

Speaker 1: 5:34

I guess my methodology going into especially, you know, in late November, mid late November, is try to find. First thing is like you know, just kind of you break it down, kind of like like you would any problem as you start to just kind of like look at what you can control right, which is finding unique access in places with low pressure. You know find, especially this late in the year, the best you know the deer been shot at from. You know I'm actually not quite sure when the season opens in November. I didn't hunt the opener this year but I think. But anyway, at least all of October, probably some of September, probably most of September and then half of November. So you know, at least two months of these deer getting hit hard on relatively limited public land opportunities. So you have pressured, very pressured deer.

Speaker 1: 6:27

So it's it's finding, you know, either the steep and deeper, it's finding kind of the unique access situations. So that's kind of what I looked at first, just from a, before I even left the house. You know, like you find that stuff out on the computer before you go and you drop kind of your access pins on on X, like I like to do, and then you go from there, right. So then you kind of down, select from those spots and you actually put boots on the ground and you start walking to those terrain, to those funnels, to those food sources, the suspecting bedding areas right, those the saddles and terrain features you think might be traveled on, and you kind of set those destination pins as points of interest that I want to go check out. And that's what I did on Sunday. You know I found the unique access not too far in but at a place where they're not getting a lot of pressure, like you said. It's not it's like as a weird, weird seasons with this piece of this piece of public, and so I know I hadn't been haunted too hard, went in, went, set a destination pin as a kind of like a thermal hub we're just wearing two creeks kind of meat and in the bottom adjacent to some thick bedding and and you know kind of places where I could also set up for an observation set on day one. You know kind of watch some movement and do to make an adjustment for later.

Speaker 1: 7:54

But you know what I found right away was I started, you know, getting right on that X. I started finding scrapes, rubs, you know bedding, all exactly where I kind of thought that they might be from e-scouting, which was a great kind of confidence booster. So you know, right away I've already got a spot where not a lot of foot traffic. You know I saw people walking, dogs and stuff.

Speaker 1: 8:16

But you know, something me and you always talk about is when you're hunting states like New Jersey and Maryland, known for high population density, and you're hunting public land and you know semi urban areas, you know people are going to get used to hikers and stuff. They're going to get used to hikers and people and stuff like that and that's like where are they going to go? You know you could see 200-inch deer living. You know, in neighborhoods, you know it's like there was a reason that the whitetail population has thrived so much is because they're good at coexisting with people.

Speaker 1: 8:46

But so found a, found a hotspot, dropped all my pins and what I like to do is, when I'm scouting is I like to be extremely thorough with pins. You know I label them all. I started using all the pictures like making little notes as I go through an on X and put them on, because you might think that, like I'll remember it later, you know I know what I'm, I'll remember where that is, but you odds are you know you won't. Especially you know, when you walk as much country as you know me and you do, you forget things. So you know, write everything down, take good notes, be thorough, and then over the years you'll just compile data and you almost will just see rub lines from years and years prior.

Speaker 1: 9:31

And then you know, if you just walk grid, you know over time, grid and area, you'll just see that the rub lines start to pop up and those rub lines will be travel corridors. And then over the years, as you keep working this same place, you know it might look like nothing, it might just be open timber, but you pick up enough rub lines, you'll find where they might converge at that one spot and that's where you need to set up. So I like to be thorough and that's what I did. I found a found a hot scrape that you know didn't look super fresh, but then everything else was covered in leaves so it hadn't been peed in, but it was also really dry. So I freshened it up with little little racketers and and I think I'm gonna hang there Wednesday morning. So we'll see how that goes.

Speaker 2: 10:21

But excited to get that out. Intel is very important. We've talked about it a few times now and I think we'll definitely do a podcast episode. We'll deep dive into it in every length of time and discuss it, but it's paid us. I know we haven't shot a deer yet, but I think we're just right there. We're so close. It's just all about now timing and it's about can you match up your days off and everything like that and be there at the exact perfect time from what we were talking about with Dave two episodes ago. But I hope we'll get another Maryland update from you next week, but we hope it at least goes in where you're seeing something worth paying off, as in, we know the deer is there, we just need it to be there. And kind of like how Andrew had it Andrew had his beast at 70 yards. Today you got to take that as in success and especially with you going to a piece you've never hunted before this is brand new like stuff.

Speaker 1: 11:36

Yeah, never before.

Speaker 2: 11:39

So it's going to be. It's just a little. Getting that close is an even bigger step now, especially because you put in the work. You e-scouted first and then you got boots on the ground and now you come. Now it really all comes together. Shit, if you shoot something, I mean of course that's, that's the ultimate goal. But you know one, two and three, yeah yeah yeah, there are there steps to this.

Speaker 1: 12:05

So the other thing that I try to look for a lot, when I was coming in here and I'm just I'm looking at it right now and obviously I'm not going to show it I'm you kind of have you have the parking spot and then you have it's kind of like an L right there's like an open field and then there's a power line cut but there you can walk through all the crunchy leaves in the timber. I mean, it's like you might, you know. So you got to think about access when you're going into these places too. And I went with my dad and that's kind of one of the things that he kept thinking about and he kept referring to me and it was kind of like something that I was overthinking, overlooking a little bit. But one of the things he pointed out to me was like this creek is less than ankle deep, you know. It's like you can walk this power line cut, be silent. It's actually the path is swept clean because somebody had drug a deer up the hill. You know, there was like we're walking up and there's like blood spots and we're like blood tracking or like leads right to the truck. I guess somebody just drug this deer out up this hill. So the path is swept clean of leaves. So you just walk down the path, jump in this creek it's ankle deep and then walk the creek all the way to the tree you want to send in. So you just like think about access.

Speaker 1: 13:16

And then the other thing is like this is placed, not a lot of trees that you can hang in, it's like a very unique kind of habitat. You know there's not a lot of trees to get up it. So finding and kind of dropping pins on trees, you know I use the, even use of the little saddle icon that I on it says. You know I'm dropping trees that I can sit in. So you know now I know like in the dark I can walk exactly to this tree just by using combination of pins. You know, just being mindful when I'm there and I also use the tracking feature a lot. You know walk your track, your walk in, track your walk out.

Speaker 2: 13:54

Smart. No same, same with me. I do love that feature a lot and you know, if you can get in quiet, that's the best and that's what you know when I get into my hunt and the difficulty of hunting a legit bedding area where they're literally bedding in front of you and you know they're bedded all over the place. Access is very is very, you know, difficult, and when you have all the leaves right now I like to go in there and blow the leaves out. But this is a brand new spot, like I found. So I didn't get to, you know, or at least go rake it, but I didn't get a chance this year, you know. But that usually pays off for me very well. But you know some exciting news and what I have not been able to share. So this whole entire time, for basically almost the whole entire hunting season, and especially the last couple of weeks, I probably like say all of the rut and like probably a little bit of pre-rut. I was planning my engagement with Bianca and I finally popped the question yesterday Afternoon after a morning hunt. We already got our engagement photos out the way, thank God, so I don't have to, you know, worry about that. But yeah, we're, you know, we're newly engaged, so really exciting and I will tell you, thank you. I will tell you, besides keeping up with this, like lie, that like, oh, like you know, trying to get her to be at this place and dress, you know so, because I knew we were gonna take pictures and everything like that so happy it's over, because doing all this during the rut and trying to get everything together and we had dinner and drinks and everything like that with friends and family and everything like that, like doing all this at the same time when you're trying to kill a big buck and all you've done is work and hunt, it was a lot Because you got this big secret to keep. Yeah, yeah, it was really tough, but you know it's over with now and I was so sure, and a lot of people were so sure, that I was gonna kill a big buck, I think like the day before or the day of, and I was hoping I went into that morning hunt on Sunday. Like I know this is gonna be a long day, but I have a feeling like I'm going to kill this deer or have the opportunity to kill this deer and I wanted that so badly and I told her and after I told her I was like if I would have killed them, you do know we would have been taking wedding pictures with, or engagement pictures with, this deer, right, I would have left him in the truck, throw him on ice. It was a really cold day but like that thing it would have been perfect. But you know what. That's how things work. It doesn't work like that. He's been giving me the ring around. So one stressful situation is over. I no longer have to keep any more secrets, hide my phone, delete stuff and be tiptoeing around with an engagement ring. So we are officially engaged and then this deer I mean he is giving me a heartache. I mean this deer is I'm losing sleep over him.

Speaker 2: 17:04

I just I have, like I know, I'm pretty confident, I know where he is. Like I'm in that area and I followed his trail. Unfortunately it leads right into private. He's not going to any. You know, peyton kind of knows the area because of the mapping and everything like that. Like it's steep. I found a nice bench which I'm going to hang a camera, but I don't know how much he's going down there because the trails are really like up top on the ridge. So he's coming. There's like three or four trails up top of the ridge. There's a bench down here where, nice and flat, I think there's definitely deer down there, but I don't know how often he's going. He's traveling somewhere this way, east to west, side-hilling it. Yeah, yeah, he's a hundred percent. A lot of them are side-hilling it.

Speaker 2: 17:52

I have a camera close to the edge of the bridge, close to where I'm set up on top of the ridge up here. So I'd be, I'm hunting here, say I have a camera somewhere here. Go start going down the ridge. On these side trails I put another camera so I've moved it on one. I had it on one of the trails for the whole week. He showed up on it once, but every time he would show up on the other camera he wasn't hitting the second camera. So it's like all right, he only hit it once, so I have to move this camera. There's another trail that he's hitting. I found another trail. A few other bucks have used it. I found his, one of his scrapes, and I'm pretty it was a big scrape, so I'm pretty confident in his.

Speaker 2: 18:38

I freshened up with pre-orbital and racketter pre-orbital from racketter and ruts up and some hot to trot and everything like that and I just kept following it until I couldn't follow it anymore because it goes right onto private property and I could go down and around. But, like we were talking about, he's not doing that, he's not going down and around, he's cutting just straight through. So he's betting somewhere there. Or what I noticed is that those are coming across the street because to get into the spot and this is another spot where I access where I actually have to park farther away walk on the road and then cut in on a little tiny strip of state land and then start heading down the ridge. They're betting on top of the ridge. They're betting across the street because the house across the street has woods, has a decent amount of woods, and that's where they're coming from.

Speaker 2: 19:34

The five hunts that I've hunted this spot all five times, the does have come across from the street All five times. They only work themselves down the ridge two of the five and the bucks are coming mostly from up, but I have seen Brutus kind of coming from that way, from up top. So we're getting there, we're working it. I think he, like I said, I think he's on a, I think he's on that doe right now and it's just right. Now. It's just a waiting game and hopefully I can kill him before like a gun hunter, but it gives me some confidence that he may just be bedded right on those privates and property. And he likes being up on the ridge that I'm on at and he hasn't been down at the bottom at all since maybe a week and a half, two weeks ago, since, honestly, since those other people have started hunting there when it got that other pressure. I haven't seen him since that day.

Speaker 2: 20:43

He day-led it down there and I may have found another bucks area or it could be his where I found rubs I mean just rubs absolutely everywhere in a trail On the other side, at the bottom, from the middle of state land going all the way out to the truck and across the street to a house in which, yet again, the house has woods in the back.

Speaker 2: 21:10

So they're using these private properties, coming in when there's a lot of safety in the private property houses. They feel very safe and secure, but they come in too, so they do risk it. I just wanna know how much is this deer risking it? Is this just because it's the rut in East Jason, or is this like he's the big dominant buck in probably both areas, and this is his big territory. You know what I mean. It's a game, it's a chess match and it's whoever makes the wrong move. And I had the opportunity where I actually woke up the other day, the last time he day-lighted, like two days ago, the day before I asked Bianca to marry me, my wind was wrong, I didn't have a good oh wow wind and I was like you know what? It's not worth it.

Speaker 1: 22:04

It's not worth it.

Speaker 2: 22:07

Yeah, I got the right rank, I got the right ring, had the wrong wind so I didn't hunt it and he showed up, which I kind of figured he was and I was like it was killing me. But I knew like that was one of those situations where, like it's not worth blowing him out. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 22:27

I don't think it would have happened, but you know we'll see.

Speaker 2: 22:33

So we actually got a special guest surprise to jump in on right now. Let's get to him. Welcome Paul, welcome back.

Speaker 3: 22:47

What's going on, man?

Speaker 2: 22:49

How's it going?

Speaker 3: 22:51

It goes, dude, it goes. How about you?

Speaker 2: 22:54

I mean deer are stressing me out, but besides that, I mean you know, it's that time of the year, full grind mode, just hunting. Absolutely, just absolutely. That's all I'm doing, and I mean congratulations.

Speaker 3: 23:09

Oh thanks, man Appreciate it.

Speaker 2: 23:11

Payton, I don't know, have you guys met before? I don't think so. I don't think so, Paul this is me, payton, one of our team guys. Payton, this is Paul Been, on a few times now and he's part of the bow hunter die video staff, correct? Sure, how's that going? How do you like it? I mean, you moved Last time we were talking. You were literally moving the next day.

Speaker 3: 23:37

Yeah, so it's good. So I'm working in the office full time out here in Illinois. So we're based out of Huntley, which is the last suburb of Chicago land, so we're kind of out here a little ways. It's different man, it's different. Out here it's versus the East Coast dude, it's different. I had a extreme culture shock when I got out here, I have to admit, but overall it's going well, man. As you saw, as you mentioned, man, I had had good success November 4th. That middle buck right there, whichever my hand is there, you go Right there. Yeah, jesus.

Speaker 3: 24:14

Biggest biggest antler buck to date and according to everybody that I talked to, that deer is only two and a half years old.

Speaker 1: 24:22

Wow.

Speaker 3: 24:23

That's what I said.

Speaker 1: 24:24

I was like you're lying.

Speaker 3: 24:25

Nope, he's only two and a half years old. Well, that kind of had me that. That has me scratching my head.

Speaker 2: 24:32

So now being at the out there in the Midwest, it's like going forward, it's like, hey, now you know, back home on East, that's like a, that's a bit nothing, it's not a big deal, but like now you start passing these type of deer and you're you wouldn't which you never would have done back on the East Coast Now the different scale.

Speaker 3: 24:57

The week after I, or the week after I shot that buck, I was hunting a different, a different lease that I picked up and I had probably a similar sized deer come walking by and I mean he walked right under my tree at like four yards, looked up at me and everything, and when he walked away I literally looked at my camera and was like I either just did the smartest thing I've ever done or the dumbest thing, because I know every single person that I would talk to back on the East Coast would have slapped me silly for passing that. And he just had he had mass. He's good to good browse chocolate brown rack, but again, he was one of those two year olds. I was just walking by and I was just like, oh my God, the deer out here are just built completely differently.

Speaker 2: 25:45

Different it's different ballgame.

Speaker 3: 25:49

Ridiculous Like I'm still trying to understand it.

Speaker 2: 25:52

It's going to take you, like once we, you know the season's over and you go back to the next season, Now it's like All right, like I know. Now I know what I'm looking for. Now I know what there is, I know the difference now between the East Coast and you know the Midwest. Now it's like it's you're just in a whole different ballgame, Like over there it's just it's and man, it's your. I can only imagine what it's like in Kansas and Iowa.

Speaker 3: 26:20

Dude, it's we're. I think I'm. What am I like? Two hours or so from what's known as, like, the Golden Triangle, so it's kind of like.

Speaker 3: 26:30

Illinois, iowa like kind of area down there. But we've got a couple couple team members that are down there in that area, are really close to it, and I mean these guys have got one guy's chasing a 190 right now that's running around and he's like he had the thing at 15 yards but it was full, it was full frontal and so he never got a shot and the thing just wheeled around and ran the other way.

Speaker 2: 26:53

Oh my God, it's dumb.

Speaker 3: 26:54

It's dumb.

Speaker 1: 26:57

And the same.

Speaker 3: 26:57

the same guy that had that happen shot a deer the same day. I actually shot mine, but he shot his in the evening. That deer weighed, if not over 300 pounds, close to 300 pounds. On the hook it was a cow. I've never seen a 300 pound deer in my life. Wow, I finally understand what the phrase corn fed means, because that's it's absurd. It is just absurd.

Speaker 2: 27:26

That is absolutely insane. I couldn't, man. We're talking about trying to get to the 200 club. Could you imagine shooting a 300 pound that? That's the size of your black bear.

Speaker 1: 27:36

That is literally the size of your black bear was.

Speaker 3: 27:38

This year was 330 pounds, so I can't imagine shooting a deer that heavy it was the thing was a tank, absolutely, and if you, if you go back and you watch the hunt, when he, when he shot the deer, the deer was actually munching on a corn cob, like out, like out in the field. So it was just hilarious, but man that's great. You hear that guy's ever shot like insane, like that deer. Supposedly it was like seven and a half years old, so you know.

Speaker 2: 28:10

I believe it though. I definitely, I definitely believe it. You know it's deer can get up to, they can get real old. I mean I know it's harder on pressured pieces of land, land, land and everything. But I mean, when I did that episode with Tam drawing a blank but deer age, right man. I think she said the oldest doe that they have ever done was 19 years old and I think the oldest buck was like, I think I want to say almost close to like 12 or 13. Like, just like you wouldn't imagine like it's like. And she and she said it she's like.

Speaker 2: 28:49

Now we're saying like you know, four years is mature and six years that you know she goes, are we? Is it really? Because if they can get to say even just 12 years old, you know what I mean. Now you're looking at, hey, you know, technically these deer should be growing till they're seven, eight or nine, even you know that's what. But then that's a whole different ball game and that would blow everybody's mind and Jesus Christ, we would have deer everywhere. You couldn't do it. But it's like everything that we know about deer is just like. We're sometimes so far off.

Speaker 1: 29:34

Very, very new they're just very unique creatures.

Speaker 2: 29:38

But so, paul, run us through your rut. We gotta go over. You know you're bucked there, but you know what does it look like? I know it's your first year over there. What is it compared to the East Coast? What is everything's different? But what have you seen so far, with the rut and everything like that leading up the pre-rut and everything like that?

Speaker 3: 30:01

So out here the first thing I noticed is that the deer out here find any and all means to make a scrape, like it doesn't matter if that branch, if that licking branch is chest high or sometimes even head high, the deer will do everything in their power to make a scrape on it, whereas back home if, at least in my experience, if the licking branch wasn't, like you know, below chest high, kind of that waist high level, the deer wouldn't even mess with it. Now I'm hunting a lot more edges out here so I don't know if that has something to do with it, but at least in my experience out here I've seen probably double or even triple the amount of scrapes out here that I have back East and you know kind of pre-rut action. I guess I really didn't notice anything too different from the East Coast. Like there were some bucks that were, you know, making scrapes, visiting scrapes, but nothing I saw. That was totally different than the East Coast. But the rut started earlier out here. So the peak of our action really started that last week of October into probably about November 11th or so, and I saw more rut activity longer than I did back East.

Speaker 3: 31:33

Now, granted, the property that I hunted back East was like a small little pocket, so the bucks really only kind of went in there to check for does and then they were out and so it was, you know, one little pocket, whereas out here there's two properties that are of significant size, so it's a lot more area that I can cover and so I saw a lot more deer kind of out cruising a lot more vocal out here.

Speaker 3: 32:00

Bucks I heard three different bucks, snort weas, which was the first snort weas I've ever heard in my hunting. So the buck I shot actually snort weas just before I shot him. So it's really cool. In the video, like you'll see him, he comes out of the thicket, he snort weas, walks into a scrape and starts to use the scrape, but I shoot him before he can finish using the scrape. So that's really really kind of about it. I would say the two main kind of takeaways is that the bucks are much more inclined to make scrapes out here and the rut activity kind of it peaks earlier and it lasts longer than what I've experienced back East.

Speaker 1: 32:45

When do you think, like when did you start to see it? I guess start out there, because I think around here we were looking. I don't know, maybe last week of October, maybe a little later around then.

Speaker 3: 32:58

Yeah, I would say that's about when it started. I know one of our team members shot a buck on Halloween and he rattled that deer in so that deer came in looking for a fight. So it was one of those instances where that was kind of like a trigger. It was kind of like all right, it's about to get on here.

Speaker 3: 33:17

And I know my cameras on one property had deer chasing does left and right for three days straight. But I mean even now I had my camera go off this afternoon and I still have bucks chasing does. They're still bumping around, not as hard, but I mean they're still bumping them around. So I don't know if it's lesser deer numbers, because the area so the area that I'm in in Illinois is a CWD zone, so the snake in and does sharp shooting and everything. So the deer numbers are down a little bit. I don't know if they've taken more does than bucks or what's going on there, but it seems like those bucks are really on the prowl for those last does and I mean you even still have until December when those yearling does will come into estrus and those bucks will bump them around a little bit.

Speaker 2: 34:14

So I wonder also if that means part of why they're so vocal, so many scrapes. They're just competing way more with each other than what they'd have to be like over here. You know what I mean. Like our areas back on East, the deer populations are high. There's a lot of. Does you know what I mean? Very high deer density.

Speaker 2: 34:37

Yeah, when you're going to, especially in a CWD area where they're doing sharp shooting, say they are taking more does and everything like that, now I mean you really have to fight and be very territorial as a mature buck because you want to mate and if you don't do you lose your opportunity. Then you don't. You know genetics aren't going to be passed, you're. You know that deer is not going to be passing with genetics. So it seems like it's a lot of competition up there, which could be a big reason for their being so vocal. So many more scrapes, you know, more aggressive Like rattling doesn't really. And you know, I would say on the East coast and I've definitely watching your videos, you guys you know there's a lot more rattling going on in the Midwest, on the East coast. I'd, yeah, it can work, but I don't think it works nearly as much. At least from my experience and I think we talked about this a little bit last episode of painting, like grunting works better here than I think you know, and I, yeah, I think it's different.

Speaker 2: 35:42

You know everywhere you go, but so far what I've noticed, like the rattling doesn't work as much nearly for us and where we are. Maybe it's different for other people in Jersey, maybe when you're Paul and Connecticut maybe it was different there. But you know, over in the Midwest I definitely feel like it works a lot better than it would over here.

Speaker 3: 36:04

Yeah, I would have to agree with that. I think in all the years that I hunted Connecticut, I think I only rattled two or three deer in, versus grunting in at least a dozen different bucks, whereas here I probably rattled in four or five deer already in my first year. Now, granted, they haven't been anything worth mentioning. They've all been, you know, little spikers or little basket racks or something like that. So I haven't had yet to rattle in one of the big boys, but I mean, they're still again more responsive to that rattling more out here than they are back east.

Speaker 2: 36:43

That's pretty. Yeah, it's so unique when you hear this stuff because it's and you know, I like getting the perspective from you because you are an East Coast boy, you know, like you said, like it's a whole culture shock and I imagine, like you know, listen, I've being where we are from. You know everything's so fast-paced, everything. You know there's cars everywhere, there's this or that. You know you're not too far away from the city. We're really close to the city, peyton's really, really close to the city. Like it's just a completely different lifestyle. Everything changes.

Speaker 2: 37:18

And so to hear the perspective of you get you were doing on the East Coast, now you're in the Midwest. It's just like you love to hear it, because there is a hundred percent, there's a whole, there's a big difference. I imagine you go to Minnesota and I know you guys got a guy on the team in Minnesota. It's a whole completely different ball game in Minnesota too. Those big deep woods. You got wool, he's got wolves over there and everything, like that Deer competing with moose as well. You know it's kind of the same thing. And, like Maine, you know there's all these areas are different. You go down South. It's a whole, completely different ball game that it is on the East Coast, the Midwest, you know so like it's. It's so cool to hear their perspective, especially when you've hunted it now in multiple different regions.

Speaker 3: 38:04

Definitely yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2: 38:07

So, being in Illinois, you so you killed. You killed him on the 14th. You said Okay, and then do you guys get what is it worth? So you get two buck tags. How does that work? Yeah?

Speaker 3: 38:23

So you get. So this was, this was a whole, this was a whole another. I'll call it a rodeo, trying to figure out the whole tag system out here. So so in Illinois you buy one hunting license and so your hunting license gets you. So when you buy your hunting license you can get archery privileges, you can get firearm privileges. Now your bag, so your bag limit, your total bag limit is two bucks and however many does you want, but you just have to keep buying. Do tags so come?

Speaker 3: 38:57

So right now it's or the first firearm season here just ended, and so if I were to, so I shot my buck during bow season, if I had gone out and hunted with a shotgun or a rifle and I shot my, and I shot a second buck with my gun tag. I'm done on bucks until CWD season, where I can only hunt them again with a firearm. Which is interesting to me because it was two totally separate bag limits back in Connecticut for archery equipment and firearms. So in Connecticut I got two buck tags with archery and in Connecticut I got one buck tag with firearm. So you know, three bucks total. So that was a little interesting, but other than that I mean it's not, you know totally different.

Speaker 3: 39:51

Print it. Getting getting your tags printed out is is an interesting, interesting thing. So I have to go to Blair's Farm and Fleet, which is like one of our like our tractor supply, but it's like their local tractor supply or whatever. Did you go out here and they got a little machine and it prints it out. And so you see, like the pictures of everyone from the Midwest that are like I got my tags for the season, I'm like, oh, okay, this is what it's like, got it.

Speaker 3: 40:17

So, um, yeah, that's that's really, that's really about it. So I got one more buck tag, um, that same property that I shot that deer on. I know there's two other deer that gave me the run around, uh, one of the last the last weekend of October. One of them is this really tall kind of red chocolate rack deer um, probably in the 140s, if I had to guess. So we'll see if I can catch up with him. It'll be interesting to see where where all those deer move to, now that you know the rut's kind of starting to wind down a little bit and the uh corn fields that are on the property have been cut for almost about a month now, so I don't know where they're at with eating out of it.

Speaker 2: 41:03

So we'll see. So with. With that being said, you know food, food, uh, you know when it's coming down and you know we talk about a lot that's you want to get on that food. You know. Now back home it's a little easier because you got the. You know there's Oaks, there's so much more diversity with with woods. You guys are now on a lot big open farm lands and you know once that corn's gone or whatever the crop is growing, what does that look like for you on your, on these properties that you're hunting? I know you just said like you got to kind of find them or whatever the case is. You know. So what? What can you do? Like, is there a good patch of woods or anything like that that you guys have, um, that you're looking for and keying on?

Speaker 3: 41:50

So, uh, really, so, really what it is is, at least, at least in my mindset. I still have to test this theory out is if you can find whoever still has standing corn or the freshest cut freshest cut corn, or beans for that matter. That's where the deer are going to be. So I know, I know the one property that we have. The guy, the neighbor, is actually a big deer hunter, manages his property. So he leaves standing corn, leaves standing beans and all that kind of stuff. So I have a feeling the deer are going to be transitioning to that property in the evening.

Speaker 3: 42:27

So it's going to be a matter of finding where those deer are traveling, traveling to that property from my current property I've got I'll call it a blessing so the neighbor on the one side doesn't, doesn't hunt and doesn't let anybody hunt it.

Speaker 3: 42:43

So it's kind of like a little like a little preserve, like a little preserve kind of thing, and we border, we back right up to it, and the deer, in order to get to that standing corn and those standing beans, have to travel through through our timber. So if they are betting over in that preserve and and go into that corn at night, I should be able to, right there in the middle, still have to test that out. I won't be able to test it out this weekend because I'm going to see family Thanksgiving in the weekend after the second firearm season, so I'll have to get off to get a firearms tag for that county and that's the. That's. The other crazy thing here is that you have to get firearms specific or county specific firearms tags. Guys, I didn't don't know if that's a thing out in Jersey or what, but definitely not a thing out in Connecticut. Yeah, no.

Speaker 1: 43:35

So all this like Buck tags, kind of buck tags are almost by county. They're not really county but they're county size. They're not buck tags deer tag either. Buck tag covers everything, but then there's like 50 zones.

Speaker 2: 43:49

And yeah, we have. We have a lot of zones, but it's only during the permit season.

Speaker 1: 43:54

Only during permit season, but it's permit season is two months long.

Speaker 2: 43:58

Yeah, yeah. So right now we're in permit season. Every listen it's. It is very confusing but, like for me, it's just like I know my zones, like right it's pretty simple, but they could easily simplify more.

Speaker 1: 44:12

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 44:13

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 44:14

If I didn't tell it to me, I'd say yeah.

Speaker 2: 44:16

Oh, my God Cause, when you look at the map it's just like, well, I think I'm here, or like when it gives you there's one that gives you an instruction goes DMs Vizone did it off from between route 206 to this and I'm like I don't know what the hell. Like I know 206, but I don't know what the hell like I don't know like apple marker this and I'm like how, how does how?

Speaker 2: 44:40

did they figure this out back in day? Like I would have been like I don't know, like I probably would have lost my hunting license cause I would be in the wrong zone every single time.

Speaker 3: 44:50

Well, that's so. That's, we have something similar out here. So, um, chicago land, which is the suburbs around Chicago, is basically a designated as a bull hunting only area. But so the defining factor is route 47, which runs north to south, down down Illinois. So everything east of 47 is bull hunting only. So during firearm season you don't have to raise arms. Everything west of 47, you have to have a firearms tag if you want to bull hunt and you have to wear the blaze orange. So it's, it's very similar to what you get.

Speaker 2: 45:26

That's pretty cool, that's interesting. But yes, it's similar, definitely is similar.

Speaker 3: 45:31

Yep.

Speaker 2: 45:33

So we're definitely going to get you on again to do the full breakdown and everything like that, as usual, with Thanksgiving coming up, you know, or this is getting dropped tomorrow. What are you guys you know really thankful for you know this year and everything like that, and get a little Thanksgiving talk before we sign off. Hey, you want to start? Sure?

Speaker 1: 46:03

Actually I just finished, just sent this article to Mike Z Wright's today to give it a look over and so I just had my bear article coming out here soon. But yeah, I'm thankful that kind of New Jersey changed directions on that. You know the most controversial hunt on the East Coast I think without a doubt came back this year in full force. You know a little short emergency action season last year but you know, when you see states like Washington axing their bear hunt in the spring and you know states you know Albert or British Columbia thinking about bringing back maybe brown bear hunts but you know hunts just getting taken away left and right, you know you wouldn't think that would be the narrative of actually bringing back a predator hunt in a state like New Jersey. So feel pretty thankful that that opportunity returned this year.

Speaker 2: 46:57

Definitely definitely agree with that one. How about you, paul?

Speaker 3: 47:02

I guess I'm just kind of thankful for all the opportunities that I've had to, you know, to go out and work in the hunting industry. You know, it's something that I've always, always wanted to do as a kid, you know, and just one of those things that I just kind of put my head down and just kept working and working and I got my opportunity and here I am. So you know, it's really cool. We've got ATA show coming up in January and then there's talks that you might have gone to Shot Show in Vegas, but it doesn't look like we're going to do that.

Speaker 3: 47:37

So that's unfortunate. But and then we've got the land cap, we've got the cast or archery classic down in PA, so I'll be, I'll be down there. If anyone goes down, shoot that, and they see me come up say what's up. And then in March we've got the National Wild Turkey Federation Expo in Nashville, so that'll be, that'll be exciting. So I'm very, very grateful for all the opportunities I've been given over the past year.

Speaker 2: 48:03

Yeah, that's awesome. I'd love to hear it. Yeah, no, it's, it's, it's amazing.

Speaker 1: 48:06

That's so cool. Yeah, maybe one day.

Speaker 2: 48:10

Yeah, yeah, hey, listen, we got to keep grinding. You know it's it's all about the grind and you know Paul, you know I've been talking now to Paul for for a while now and you know it definitely come a long way. You know we talked about a little bit, you know, in the last time, but it was a huge. When you told me that like on on this episode when you broke, I was like, oh my God, like this is like. I know you've been working real hard at it and everything like that. And you know I've been watching your videos now for a little bit and it's, you know it's been great since the day one, since we you first jumped on the podcast. You know so really well deserved. And you know that's for everyone out there that wants to do the same lesson. You just got to just got to keep going and just keep grinding and you know it's it's, it's going to happen. You know it's just everyone's at different levels and you know it takes time and everything like that.

Speaker 2: 49:00

This isn't a. You're going to wake up one day and you're going to be, you know, working in the in the industry. Now, like you just got to, got to keep pushing, even when you want to give up. You just got to keep pushing and, pushing and pushing, you know, and you got to have a real good support system. So that's what I'm going to say. You know, I'm really thankful for my support system, and you know, of course, my family and everything like that. But I'm going to I'm going to throw this one out to my newly fiance, where, yeah, yeah, thank you. You got engaged yesterday because I am, I'm now at 30, 32 hunts, right, and I mean probably a lot like a lot, a lot, where I see the story.

Speaker 2: 49:45

Yeah, yeah, I am after this one deer where it's so you know things have kind of lacked in. You know where other departments are. When I get home I'm out Like I'm knocked out, like I, literally I was. We're left on the phone with a couple of guys. It's like we're at the point where it can't even hold like a like a prep conversation, like we'll eat dinner, whatever, we'll get into bed, we'll be watching hockey or something like that, and then she just goes. I'll turn around and you're just knocked out like just sleeping. It's like, yeah, I mean getting up, you know three, four o'clock in the morning. Traveling, especially when it's winter, the cold, it takes more of effect on you, everything like that. You know we're not getting back until you know six, seven o'clock at night, sometimes, you know just depends what time, sun and then you know three, you're doing. You're either doing it again the next day or you're doing it where you have to go to your job and you have to work, and then we're, we're recording every week right now. So like it has been a, so I'm really, you know, my, my thankfulness comes, will come for her and you know, couldn't, couldn't have done it without, you know, the whole family and everything like that. So, and I know all the hunters out there and everyone I know it's kind of everything that we've said, it's everyone's, you know thankful for the same thing.

Speaker 2: 51:08

Man, I'm already thinking about the food. What is your must? What is your? What is your go to Thanksgiving meal? Look like, like. Are you guys, like anyone here? Deep fry their turkeys? I had it for the first time last year. Never, I've never done it. We went to Bianca's step dad parents place. Holy cow, it was like usually turkey can be dry. I'm not going to lie Like, I'm not going to lie this juicy, like, juicy, like it was actually really, really good. Now, we're not going to do it this year, but I might miss the deep fried turkey because it was. It was phenomenal last year when I tried it.

Speaker 1: 51:55

It usually is pretty dry. My dad did the meat eater brine. Like in the meat eater Coke book. He brined it. Yeah, that last year and that actually was was my favorite, because usually I don't like it very much.

Speaker 2: 52:05

It is dry and not the best Got to have gravy.

Speaker 1: 52:10

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 52:10

You got to have gravy.

Speaker 3: 52:13

So we, anyone, anyone here have their family members make homemade gravy? Yeah, yeah. See my family totally opposite. My mom for years tried to make homemade gravy. Never came out well, but we go to KFC.

Speaker 2: 52:28

Hey, listen you can't, you can't go.

Speaker 1: 52:30

Listen, I can't beat them. Join them.

Speaker 2: 52:32

No, I'm a huge fan of KFC's Just KFC in general, but I do love their gravy. I do love their gravy. That's pretty, that's, that's smart, that's smart, I like it. I like it. You know anything else that you guys mashed potatoes?

Speaker 3: 52:50

Oh, mashed potatoes stuffing, yeah, and my mom does a Parmesan fried green beans. Oh dude, that sounds really good girl.

Speaker 2: 53:01

Yeah, sweet potato casserole. I'm a candy am person, so I love the Marshall. I as a kid I remember I'd get so mad if the marshmallows were not on I I'd lose it. Now it's like all right, like it's not that big of a deal, but like huge, huge EAMs person biscuit Got to have biscuit.

Speaker 2: 53:21

But I definitely realized and anyone out there that if this happens to you you get so excited, like I love. Like all I'm doing is, if I'm not hunting, I'm watching football or watching hunting videos, right, or I'm working. This year I'll be, I'll be at work, but I won't eat the whole entire day. It's like I'm going to eat so much, like I'm just going to stuff my face and then I'll get my food and I'll start eating and then I'm full and I'm like I barely eat and I was like I started myself all damn day just to have like one free. I'm like no, so like you got to remember, you got to eat just a little bit during the day, just so you know your stomach can actually take all the food that you plan on eating and everything like that. But huge, huge Thanksgiving type of guy Love Thanksgiving.

Speaker 3: 54:12

Oh yeah, favorite day of the year, especially, especially with the turkey and stuffing sandwiches you have for about a week after. Yeah Well taking a lunch or going to buy? Buy anything from the grocery store? Nope, it's all in the fridge ready to go.

Speaker 2: 54:26

There is. We have a deli that makes it. It's called the gobler and it's literally a Thanksgiving sandwich and it is the like one of their most popular. It is so good, but every time I literally you. When you bite into it it reminds you of Thanksgiving, and even has the cray. Like I'm a huge cranberry person, I do love the cray. It has cranberries in it too and everything like that.

Speaker 1: 54:50

Yep, huge huge huge, huge cranberry Ocean break can. Yeah, it's got to be from the can Huge cranberry person.

Speaker 2: 54:57

What type of pie are you guys? You guys, what type of dessert are we? Are we going with?

Speaker 3: 55:03

It's hard to beat a classic apple pie.

Speaker 1: 55:06

I'm with you on that one.

Speaker 3: 55:07

You can't, yeah. So I actually worked in an apple orchard way back in the day and we had a bakery down on the road, so I got spoiled and I got to try all the different pies, because one would fall on the ground in quotations for anybody that can't see it it would fall on the ground, so we would have to eat it. But so I mean apple pie, cranberry pie, blueberry pie, and then we had a fruit medley pie. So it was apples, raspberries, blackberries, cherries and something else. I forget what it was. But oh, dude, I'm glad I stopped working there because even though I was working hard labor, dude I was packing on the pounds during this time you get the deer hunt that I can also imagine.

Speaker 1: 55:56

What's that? Every time I'm in one of those places did you get the deer hunt? Because every time I go and I'm apple picking or pumpkin picking with my girlfriend, I'm like all's I'm thinking about is like they usually have hunters on it. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 56:06

Hammers here, so that particular orchard. So they were our neighbors, so my property bordered theirs but they had a fence around the outside of it. Now I remember when they put that fence up and if you were to go into the landowner's house there is this. He's got this right side shed. I never got to score the damn thing, but I mean this shed was probably 80 inches easily and it had a 13 inch drop off, the like just after the G2. This thing was monstrous and there was a. There was an older gentleman that worked in the orchard and he had. He had his old hunting war stories about, you know, the deer that were back there and the deer they shot and everything Like he. Finally he finally showed me one of the pictures of the deer that he shot and he wouldn't let me score it because he had it in his house. But I saw it and I mean when you, when you say that you think that there's hammers around an orchard, you're not wrong. I mean this deer was easily 160 inches easily.

Speaker 2: 57:14

I mean it makes so much sense Like that's so much food there for them.

Speaker 1: 57:19

So much so. You know a Christmas tree farm cut down a Christmas tree last year and I couldn't stop it. There was like one corner that was just every tree was ruined by some deer. That just just like just any farm like that. You know it's like the foot traffic it gets in me and Mike we were just talking about this. You know it's like if there's a deer coming here shredding Christmas trees it gets 150 people at least, you know, in there an hour.

Speaker 3: 57:43

You know it's like the whitetails don't walk and they know the difference and that's that's one of the big, big differences between the deer east coast versus the Midwest. I have never had a deer smell me from so far away.

Speaker 2: 57:59

And.

Speaker 3: 57:59

Mike, this was the one of the topics we talked about.

Speaker 2: 58:01

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 58:02

Yeah, that's the deer out here are so sensitive the human smell. It is ridiculous. I had a doe blow at me from 150 yards away 200 yards maybe. She was across the cornfield and she literally locked in on my on my spot and just stood there and blew. I was like I couldn't even launch an arrow. I was like, oh my.

Speaker 2: 58:29

God See, and yeah, I definitely and I was going to bring that up you know the difference in. You know, sent in the wind and thermals, like everything, plays a bigger role in areas like this, you know, where there's not as much human contact. There it's just different. You know, here everything's so close and compact and, listen you, there isn't a deer, I think, in the state, unless maybe you go up to Delaware Water Gap and deep, deep into Delaware Water Gap where they haven't really come across the human and that might be even like they probably have at some point, like you know they're, they're so used to it, yeah, they're. You know our whole area, connecticut. You know, even like Long Island. You know Long Island. You know Jersey, certain parts of PA, you know, I'm not saying yes, of course you got the big farmlands and everything like that, but like there are some, yeah, are Philly suburbs.

Speaker 1: 59:28

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 59:28

Yeah, the, you know southern Jersey, stuff like that. You know Maryland, you know, so it is. It's quite unique. It really is. It's a quite unique situation. But these deer, like you're learning so much. So I'm really excited to you know, at the end of the year, to sit down and talk to you when you get a chance and, you know, really go over how much you know and all these encounters and the wind difference and and everything like that, and really hammer it because it's like and that just goes to show anyone listening to this when you do book your out of state hunts, you know and we were talking about it there they would paint.

Speaker 2: 1:00:01

Like we're going to be in Maine, hopefully next year we're going to be putting in the Iowa and Kansas and I would love to get to Ohio. We're supposed to go this year but didn't get a chance to go. Like those are places that it's crucial. Your scent control is crucial. You know, playing the wind is. You need to. You need to play the wind Like it's a maker. You know, break right there. Like here you can get, you can get away with it right, you can get away there. You won't see a, you won't see him, you won't see a deer if you know you don't pay attention to those, to those types of things.

Speaker 1: 1:00:39

So I imagine leaving that ground scent I'd imagine makes a huge deal.

Speaker 2: 1:00:44

And you know, before we we get off. Actually, like I will talk about that, I think it got me the other day where I was going into a morning hunt. Now I'm in bedding, full bedding. They bed right in front of me, there's just beds everywhere. So I knew, getting in, I had to slip in early and take my time and just like walk, stop, wait, start walking a few steps again, stop, wait, and try to make myself more like a deer. But to get in it's really difficult and I, what I decided to do was, instead of pulling my bow up on a you know, on my rope and making noise, I was like, all right, I'm just going to have it on my backpack.

Speaker 2: 1:01:30

But to get through some of the branches, everything I had to get on, like my knees and like start crawling and everything, and right, it wasn't light enough where I could. Just, I heard a snap and I looked and I can just see the outline and then I saw the white tail come right from where I had was crawling. I think that's all what it was. I don't know if it was a doe, I don't know if it was, it was the buck, but I think that right there, me just crawling, smelled it and just never came down, didn't blow or anything like that, but it just was like, hmm, maybe I'm not going to go down down the ridge today.

Speaker 2: 1:02:11

Maybe you wanted like a completely different what you know, what I mean I don't know for a hundred percent, sure, but it does make sense, like whenever you rub up against something, like you're leaving scent regardless, and that's in Jersey, like man being being out over there, it's a, it's a whole. Yet again, a whole different, a different ball game. So it's, you know, pretty cool. Can't wait till we get out there and do some hunting out there. But, you know, excited to talk to you further. But, guys, I think that's that's really it for for our weekly episode. Paul, I want to thank you so much for coming on. You know, yet again, can't wait till, till you're back on again later in in the year. And you know, happy Thanksgiving to everyone out there. I'm happy, are you? You're coming to Connecticut? Nope, I'll be in Buffalo.

Speaker 3: 1:03:02

Okay, you're okay, that's pretty cool. Yeah, my sister and brother in law live up there.

Speaker 2: 1:03:09

So yeah, Cool.

Speaker 3: 1:03:09

Cool Gathering up there.

Speaker 2: 1:03:11

Nice, nice, love Buffalo, huge Buffalo fans. Hold this hell over there. Is it cool? How cold is it over there? Is that it Like I know?

Speaker 3: 1:03:21

it's, it's, it's, uh, so the temperature, like temperature variance, is about the same but the wind out here is really deep because there are no freeze out here. So, like you, I get a full understanding of what a 15 mile an hour wind actually feels.

Speaker 2: 1:03:40

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:03:40

Yeah, it's cold. Interesting Cause there's nothing stopping that wind.

Speaker 2: 1:03:45

Oh man, that's so, so, so crazy. Yeah, we're, we're definitely, we're definitely going to dive deep into it, because that's, that's just another thing. It's like we had 14, 15 mile per hour winds the other day, but it wasn't like it's okay, but it wasn't like oh my God, like this is. So, you know, when you don't have that protection and everything like that in the tree, yeah, it's, it's got to. It's a whole different ball game. You're taking the full brunt of the wind. Yeah, Definitely. But all right, guys, thank you guys so much.

Speaker 2: 1:04:16

I hope you guys enjoy this episode, I hope you guys have an amazing holiday and we'll see you guys actually Saturday for American Mike's final chapter, Free American Mike campaign, is done. He has been on a steam roll this year and you know where that episode was. Let me tell you guys, he was full of energy. He was, he was ready to and I said it in that episode he came into that episode ready to run through a brick wall Like ah. So can't wait for that, Can't wait to see what you guys think about. You know that episode as well and we'll see you guys next time.