The Unseen Craft of Trappers in the Pennsylvania Wilderness

Speaker 2: 0:21

Welcome back to the Garden State Outdoors in a podcast presented by Boondock Sonning. I'm your host, mike Nitroi, and today we have Jason Wall and Jason. Welcome to the show.

Speaker 1: 0:31

How are you doing? Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2: 0:35

Everything's great. We're so close to season now, everything like this but by the time this podcast comes out, it's going to be a little later, so we're really going to focus on trapping. We've never had anyone on that was big into trapping, that has done a lot of trapping. That's something that I really want to touch on with you. I know you kind of do it all and there's so many different things, but trapping is definitely going to be the main topic of this episode for all you guys that are listening back at home or whatever you guys are doing. So how we start this podcast off, though, first, is Jason. Why don't you give us a quick rundown about yourself, your little backstory, how you got into hunting and things like that?

Speaker 1: 1:19

All right. Well, I started hunting at an early age. At the time, I was legally allowed to hunt in Pennsylvania. At that time was 12 years old, but prior to being 12 years old, I would fall along with my dad and my grandfathers and uncles. It was always a big ordeal for us.

Speaker 2: 1:44

Yeah, no, I mean growing up it was definitely, I imagine, way different than it is now. It's still great and still a lot of family oriented stuff. But something about those good old days are definitely true, are better, but where did you grow up? Where did you grow up hunting?

Speaker 1: 2:06

I'm actually from. I don't know how familiar you are with Pennsylvania, but the closest thing to me would be considered Wolf's Bear. But I spent most of my life hunting in Sullivan County and Susquehanna County.

Speaker 2: 2:20

Okay, all right. Yeah, I know the area Never hunted in those areas, but I spent some time up there for hockey and visiting people in colleges and stuff like that. So what's the hunting there? There are so many crazy things about PA. How many people in PA just hunt alone I think? I looked at the number the other day and see if I can find it, but I think it was like 600,000.

Speaker 1: 2:49

Yeah, that's the truth. They said we're definitely within the United States. We fall under top three. I'm pretty sure we're number two. I think Michigan might have us beat with number of hunters.

Speaker 2: 3:02

Yeah, yeah, I'm somewhere around there. You guys were in that somewhere 600,000 range and then let's see what it says most hunters per stake. Let's see, it's somewhere. Yeah, somewhere around there. When it comes up, I'll bring it up. So what was it like hunting around you? Did you notice more hunters back then than now?

Speaker 1: 3:42

Yes, I could honestly tell you that I hunt stake game lands and I could remember going back with my father when I was 12 years old because I never hunted beer with him during rifle season. Because we hunt all day, we go in when it's dark and we leave when it's dark. Unless we're dragging a deer, we get one during the day. So being young that's kind of boring. So I never really hunted beer with my father till I was old enough actually to be hunting them. But I can tell you just now, because I'm still hunting the same area. I would see trucks pulled off all over the place, people walking in the woods. Now when I go back I pretty much recognize every vehicle and where it's going to be parked, because it's pretty much the same group of people every year. Now there's not nearly what it was.

Speaker 1: 4:45

I've been hunting almost 20 years so there's been a big decrease in the amount of people that I've seen. Even like I hunt out of a cabin. It's been in my family since my grandfather bought the lot when he came back from World War II shortly after. So we've been up there a long time and even during deer season now the cabins aren't filled. There's a few people that still hunt out of them. But usually deer starts on Saturday. Now Usually by Sunday night the handful of people that are around are gone and I'm there practically for two weeks if I don't get a deer and I only hunt, buck up there. I don't shoot doe up my cabin anymore, leaving them be. But there's definitely been a decrease in the amount of people that I've seen.

Speaker 2: 5:41

Yeah, no, you hear it all the time that hunting numbers are down and you've been consistent and where you've been hunting, especially in a pretty popular state and everything like that, and even to see the decrease, it definitely does speak volumes for what it's like and what the future holds, and something that we definitely have to change around and get to where we need to get it back to.

Speaker 1: 6:12

Oh, across the board. Hunting is still very popular in Pennsylvania, even with the youth. I always see pictures of kids shooting their first buck or their first dobler out squirrel hunting.

Speaker 2: 6:28

Yeah, PA is just one of those hunting states.

Speaker 1: 6:34

Just like you said, Michigan's out there and stuff like that.

Speaker 1: 6:36

We have a little bit of everything we could do, and that's what I like. I mean my hunting license. You would laugh if you saw it with all my tags on it. I get archery muzzle loader bear. I have to buy the pheasant permit for trapping. We need to have a carcass tag for Bobcat Fisher and this year after. It's been a long time coming, but they finally opened up a river otter season in the wildlife management unit that I trapped. I'm excited to maybe try and trap my first otter this year.

Speaker 2: 7:14

With that being said, and we should get right into the trapping. You say, otter, I know you can trap them in another place and everything like that. Is it in PA? I imagine the number has gotten back to where it needs to be. What are you going to be looking for when you're trapping otters, when you're going out? Obviously you're looking for water, riverbank, but what specifically, what specific sign, are you looking for? Otters?

Speaker 1: 7:44

Well, the season runs. I believe it's within the first couple of days of February, but pre-season scouting will help a lot. Otters tend to anywhere that you're going to find like a beaver pond, with creek channels going through it too, and even otters like to use beaver dams You'll see they have slides. And then you look for I've actually seen this a few times they leave tube piles Within it. You're going to see it's all filled with fish scales, because fish is the number one food item. That's your two biggest giveaways that there's otter in the area. And if there's snow, that's an even bigger help because you'll see the tracks, you'll see the tube piles, you'll see what runs they're using. But going ahead in the season I'll start looking for this stuff. Even like duck season, I hunt ducks a little bit and if I'm looking along a creek going up to a beaver pond, you'll notice that stuff there.

Speaker 2: 8:54

Now quick question with otters and beavers if you do have a beaver pond, if you see a lot of beavers, would that mean you're going to see otters? Are they an animal that they'll live next to each other, associate with each other? I know like up in Maine with like moose. If you see a lot of moose you're not going to see a lot of deer. If you see a lot of deer, you're not going to see a lot of moose, and they both live together and thrive off of. Are you looking for old beaver dams, stuff like that, or ponds and everything like that? What exactly can they coexist with each other where you're using that?

Speaker 1: 9:31

as a yes, they will coexist. There's no issues there. But they will use old beaver ponds and dams too. They will live in there. That's a nice thing beaver trapping is kind of. It does have very good benefits. So obviously, beavers make beautiful ponds. I don't know how much it duck on, but beavers make some of the best ponds you could ever shoot wood ducks in. In that case you want to keep beaver there so your pond stays good.

Speaker 1: 10:10

What you have to understand too is that a beaver pond will only have so much food on it to sustain so many beavers. So in that case you can judge just by the amount of activity that you see going on. You know how many trees are knocked over this and that. To judge how many beavers are in the colony, it's beneficial to trap one or two beavers out of the beaver pond to keep the other ones there. So what they'll do is, if they run out of food, if they clear the pond, they'll abandon it and go and either set up a new colony somewhere and it's sad because most of the time when they do move, mostly even in the mountains that they're following these cricks. The beavers are big, clumsy animals. He's an easy target for a coyote to get and they love to eat them.

Speaker 1: 11:02

So it's very beneficial to trap one or two out to keep the pond maintained. Now you don't want to trap the whole colony out, because then that defeats the whole purpose. But there you've got six in a colony. It's probably beneficial to take out two, maybe three, so that the remaining ones will still remain there without them meeting themselves at a house and home, you know.

Speaker 2: 11:30

Yeah and that's pretty cool. So it's a. It's kind of like a two-for-one, especially if you're a waterfowl hunter. So anyone listening this who's into waterfowl and anything like that, like it is a very useful tactic to use beaver, beaver pods and everything like that, but also to manage that that population and that's just 100%.

Speaker 1: 11:52

And even if you're a whitetail hunter, that's a source of water that's produced there, you know.

Speaker 2: 11:57

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 11:59

Beaver ponds and they eat the fresh lilies that grow up, you know, during the spring and summer months. But it's a beaver pond, is very beneficial to have around, you know as long as well. Now we're gonna get into another subject, as long as it's where you don't mind it being, because I've actually worked for the state and there's been a few times where beavers have came and fogged up and next thing you know they're flooding somebody's backyard or they're flooding the roadway.

Speaker 2: 12:30

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've experienced that up in Maine and stuff like that where it can cause a bit of a problem and stuff like that. But you know, for the most part you know it is pretty beneficial. It is the unfortunate part if it does cause some damage or someone's backyard Part of the cause of damage.

Speaker 1: 12:49

But yeah, like up in the mountains and stuff where you know on the game lines, I think it's very beneficial to have them around, they said. As far as waterfowl hunting goes, they're like magnets for wood ducks if you get the right pond.

Speaker 2: 13:05

Okay, good to know. That's pretty cool. So with the beavers, you know what are you, you know kind of the same thing. I mean you're going existing with the otters, so you're looking for the same exact thing. Once you find a pond, you know what is your next step after that. You know to. I know you said you're monitoring the trees and looking at you know all the trees around and stuff like that. But is there other signs to use trail cameras, anything like that, to get a good good?

Speaker 1: 13:43

number. No the thing with, like I said pretty much and I don't, to tell you the truth, I don't really even trap beaver ponds too much because up where the beaver ponds are, for the most part I have an hour ride to get to them and that gets a little tight in the morning before it works because you know I check my trap yet and legally have to check your traps every morning.

Speaker 2: 14:10

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 14:11

So before work, that could get you know it could get a lot out of the way. Fortunately for me, I live five minutes from the South Atlanta River, which has a healthy beaver population, so I most of my beaver trapping is done on the South Atlanta River and even into some of the trout streams that flow into it. I'll trap them as well.

Speaker 1: 14:36

And my, that's my preferred area to really target the trapped beaver. What I would do is they, like beaver, prefer softwoods, like poplar birch in the South, like cottonwoods, willows, Willows. There's this one section of river I trap. There's always beaver there because it's a stand of what you call it. It's like willow, like young willow, and that's like their number one preferred food source to get. And what they'll do is.

Speaker 1: 15:08

Now the South Atlanta River does free some, you know, depending on how cold of a winter we get. But you'll notice that even in the ponds where you see their lodge. In the ponds they always build lodges for the most part, but sometimes they'll use the bank where they can. Now the river, 90% of them are bank beaver. You know just a big opening, they go in and that's up for their lodges. But they actually make winter food supplies. You'll see this massive pile of sticks and limbs. You know bark peeled everywhere. You know that's a dead giveaway that they're actively using that area.

Speaker 1: 15:48

Now, as far as what I'm going to do, when I go to I say, all right, this is the area I'm going to trap. You know, for the most part I use leg old traps. I do use some connovers, but I don't really like to. But with the leg old trap I pick an area that I know is deep enough to dispatch the animal quickly and I'll make my set. My favorite set is called the caster mound. You get it in a bottle.

Speaker 1: 16:21

Every trap, trapping supplier, cells, beaver caster, and what they do is this is a it'll work for the most part because it always opens like December, mid December, right after our deer season, the trapping season, all open for beaver. But it runs till the end of March and the caster mound becomes really effective, Like end of February, in the March, because they're, you know, starting changing territories at that point. So that's their territorial mark. They make what's called a caster mound. It's a big mud pile filled with sticks and leaves and they discreet a little caster on top of that. Now they know what a different smell is from a different beaver. So what I'll do is I'll make a caster mound, I'll pull mud, put sticks in there, everything, and I get a little bit of beaver caster and put that on top of the mound and usually if they're really active in there, I come back the next day.

Speaker 1: 17:22

I would note he that if I didn't catch him, he at least visited my set, because you'll see the tracks in the mud, you know. And another popular set I like to make is called just a bait set. All I do is like in my backyard have a couple of young popper trees. I just take the bulls on, I cut one and I peel the bark on a beaver attracted to that shiny, fresh, good smelling bark. I'll just stick that in the mud and I'll place my trap and, like I said, same thing, usually within a day or two if they're active. You'll get them, you know.

Speaker 2: 17:58

Yeah, no, I mean, it's open in a new world. Like I've always been interested in trapping, you know, and I just never have known how to go about that or just talk to any of you about it. Just the information of trapping is so unique, it's a lot to learn.

Speaker 1: 18:17

I mean you'll become. If you're a trapper, you'll become a better hunter and just a woodsman in general, because you have to learn everything about that animal. And that just applies to everything. If you're a coyote trapper, a fox trapper, a raccoon trapper, you know raccoons are probably my second favorite thing to trap. You know I love water animals. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy running a predator trap line too. I like trapping for fox and I never had any luck with the coyotes because that's a real waiting game. My father's really gearing up for coyotes because he's near in retirement, soon, and when he retires he really wants to trap and that's going to be his number one target animal is the coyote because obviously you know that's a good animal to manage. You know your deer, your turkey, your small game populations will thank you immensely, you know.

Speaker 2: 19:12

Yeah, for sure, for sure. So what is it about raccoons? You know that make it the second favorite animal to trap.

Speaker 1: 19:21

Well, they're pretty abundant for the most part and they're just. I enjoy trapping them because, like when you're trapping fox and coyotes, you're really worrying about how much human scent you're putting around. You know you're wearing gloves, you're trying to not to make the area mess, you know. But raccoons, for the most part you go walking along the creek and or a river and you see their tracks running in the mud. You know, and they.

Speaker 1: 19:47

My favorite trap to use for them are dog proof traps. They're like little handcuffs and only a raccoon or well, occasionally you'll get a skunk or a possum. He'll get caught in it too, because they have they don't like nimble fingers, whereas if you're in an area that you know guys are duck hunting and stuff you don't want to, you know, try to catch somebody's dog, you know. Not that, it's not that they're painful or anything, but it's just something I'd rather not do, because I've had hunting dogs my whole life too. I've had beagles. So I like those dog proof traps when I'm going after them and they work very well. You don't even need anything, for you know my favorite bait is dog food and marshmallows.

Speaker 2: 20:31

Oh marshmallows. I've heard the dog food. I've heard the dog food.

Speaker 1: 20:36

But yeah, it's just something from the grab, like if you put one marshmallow in there and that's like get some digging and then you'll get them caught, you know, and they're easy to release, because sometimes you catch a small raccoon, I just I let them go, you know. Same with a possum. I got a real small possum one time and let them out and he walked away. You know they walk away for it. Fine, all they're doing is restraining them. They're not causing any pain, it's just a restraining device.

Speaker 2: 21:04

you know yeah.

Speaker 1: 21:06

And I like that option where if there's I catch a raccoon or something, a non-target animal, I could easily let it go, you know, and that's that's that's why I like dog proofs and, like I said there, it's a very effective tool around that. Let's say, you know farmers having trouble with them getting in his feet up in the barn or something they're great to put around the barn. You know your help and him out. You know it's a very effective tool.

Speaker 2: 21:36

Now, when you're going for, for raccoons, you know it's kind of the same thing. You know, when you're hunting them you're looking for the tree. There they're, they're dend up or housed up in and stuff like that. What are? When you, when you hit it, you know and it's somebody who's looking to get into into this, or you know someone who has been doing trapping they just have yet to to raccoon trap. When you set out to a new patch of woods, what, what are you looking for? How do you exactly locate them, especially during? You know, I guess you're, you're scouting maybe during the day or early.

Speaker 1: 22:15

Scout there in the day because, like I said, 90% of my trapping is done on waterways for raccoons. So usually I'm looking along, looking in the mud. I'll see, you know tracks of what's working along that river bank and the river is great because you know, there's beaver, there's raccoons. My number one favorite thing to trap when I was a kid was muskrats and sadly in Pennsylvania there's just not as many muskrats as there used to be. So really I tend to try to avoid setting for them.

Speaker 1: 22:49

Now, you know, a long time ago there is muskrats. Everywhere you go along the river you would find, you know their, their signs, easy to look for. You'd see grass chewed up, their pellets would be on logs and you know tracks in the mud and they would reap your data During the spring and summer. They'd have three litters a year. So there was lots of them. Now I heard that our water is cleaning up and the muskrats, they, they tend to survive a little better and dirtier water. And another thing is years ago it used to be something. If you saw bald eagle, well, you know that's a great success story. But they're everywhere now. I see them along the Susquehanna River. I see them lakes when I'm fishing, you know, and a muskrats an easy target for a bald eagle to go down and grab, you know.

Speaker 2: 23:45

Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1: 23:47

But yeah, for the most part I I mainly just walk the riverbank and look, and where I'm seeing tracks and stuff, that's, that's where I'm set. And you know the big thing with trapping the number one thing you could do is set the sign. You know if you're trapping flocks and there's flocks tracks and everything you know that's that's where you're going to set.

Speaker 1: 24:08

You know, just like, just like hunting deer, you know you're looking for scrapes and rubs and deer runs and you know where you're seeing active sign. That's that's where you want to trap, you know.

Speaker 2: 24:23

Yeah, that makes sense, you know it's to. So, basically, you know, don't overthink it. You know, hunt the sign or trap the sign, everything like that.

Speaker 1: 24:30

Yeah, if you're seeing sign, that's still, and I know animals have, you know, different characteristics. Now I like to. I like to trap mink and what mink my number one areas I tend to target are bridges. They always tend to, you know, either run along the walls or swim along the walls. So that's what I like and that's what we call a blind spitting. You know you can't, you're not going to see tracks and stuff with the Crick banks, rocky and everything. You know they're there and a mink, that's. That could be a waiting game.

Speaker 1: 25:08

Let's see, I didn't trap mink last year because we got a real cold snap after deer season closed and I was getting ready to start trapping and the Crick's pretty much froze. So I didn't bother trapping mink last year. But the year before I hit mink pretty hard. I'm going to say close to 60 traps out. You know different bridges throughout the county and everything you know. I would just, you know, I'd see a bridge, I'd set four or five traps at that bridge, I would cover it, then move on down to the next one you know, and set that one and keep going. You know I'd follow the couple streams that are in the area that I live and they were all. They were all blind sets but that could take a while. Mink have a big area. I think it was my third morning check-in. I looked and I had a mink. I caught the female and it was 11 days later. I caught the buck the male. They're called the buck mink the male and I had the buck.

Speaker 1: 26:11

11 days later, under the same bridge, I caught the female. But I knew there was multiple minks using that bridge because I saw the tracks. There was a little sandbar right before there and I saw the tracks working it and I said well, you know, I got to leave my traps out because I know if I caught the female, sooner or later the box is going to be coming along, you know.

Speaker 2: 26:34

Oh, wow, yeah, it's, it's these, these animals you know that you're pursuing. I mean, it's a it sounds like it's, it's a fun and a unique challenge, you know, and a lot of because you have to check it.

Speaker 1: 26:48

It's definitely a challenge, yeah.

Speaker 2: 26:49

Yeah, and you, because you have to check it the the next day. It's a very active, you know situation.

Speaker 1: 26:55

Every morning I say it's a new morning. Every morning I said I wonder you know, what did we catch today, you know, and it's something I really look forward to when I wake up. I wake up, well, I'm running mink, my line's pretty big, I'm off, usually 430 in the morning, I'm outside starting my truck and let it warm up and everything, and, like I said, usually about an hour of checking and then I'm headed into work for the day. You know.

Speaker 2: 27:24

At what time is the latest point? You can check your traps without you know breaking, breaking a law.

Speaker 1: 27:31

Breaking a law. I don't know exactly it off the top of my head I think it. I always know no more than 24 hours I go, you know, but legally I believe I'll look it up right now for you. If I could get up, I'll just check it out real quick. The game commission will have it on their website. Okay, pennsylvania, every 36 hours you must check, check your traps and remove animals from.

Speaker 2: 28:06

Okay.

Speaker 1: 28:07

But, like I said, I'm always. I'm always 24. It's every morning I'm out running my line when it's trapped in season Cause you know what. At the end of the day, you want everything done cleanly and humanely.

Speaker 2: 28:19

Yeah, of course.

Speaker 1: 28:20

You owe it to yourself and the animal number one to check your traps.

Speaker 2: 28:27

Yeah, definitely you know. And when you're trapping, say, you come to a trap and there's nothing, nothing there. You know how often are you leaving it and coming back the next day or just making a quick adjustment to a different trail or something like that.

Speaker 1: 28:43

I mean, I know, I imagine it varies with animals, but like say just and different, like if you're using lure and sense. You know it depends on the weather too. If you get a rain, you're gonna you know re-lure or re-send after you get a rain.

Speaker 1: 29:01

I usually wait every four or five days and then I'll put new lure down if I have to, but, like when I'm trapped in mink, just blind sets. If there's nothing there, you just leave it go. You know, you move on. Like I said. It's pretty much it. I don't really adjust my traps too much, you know, and I do everything I can because, believe it or not, people will steal them on you. I do my best to try to hide them and keep it, you know, not visible, because I've had traps stolen on me. It's never a fun time. I had it happen two years ago and I know it was another trapper because he had pliers with him too. I had wire tied off and I walked under the bridge and there's all my traps nipped off the wire, you know.

Speaker 2: 29:52

Jesus, and regardless of what you do, there's always gonna be, whether you're hunting, fishing, trapping, you know, yeah, you know that you meet.

Speaker 1: 30:02

There's dishonest people out there so it's something you deal with. I did everything on my end. I called because I have a number. You have to have your traps either tagged with your name and address or you get an equipment number from the game commission and I have an equipment number. So I called the game warden and I left them. You know, I talked to them and I just gave them my equipment number because he said he's like I checked, you know, I know where guys trap and stuff. So he's like I'll just look. You know, but there's 99% of the time if you got traps stolen, you're not gonna see them back.

Speaker 2: 30:37

Of course, that's just the way it is you know?

Speaker 1: 30:40

Yeah definitely.

Speaker 1: 30:41

Everybody else I've heard people getting deer stands stolen and everything else. You know it's just stuff you put up with. You try, like I said, you try to be, you know, discreet, everything as you can, hidden and out of the way. I don't even like when I pull in an area. I don't even like people seeing me. Most of my operating is done while it's still dark out so there's not much traffic going on. But I don't like when people see me carrying a bucket or wearing hip boots. You know what I mean. Then you know it's a dead. Give it away to what you're doing, you know.

Speaker 2: 31:12

Of course, of course, yeah, um, you know. With that being said, you know I really wanna get into the also with trapping, the trial and error and more of like using the equipment. So you've been trapping for a long time. So when you first started, I imagine your dad or your grandpa or something like that is who taught you how to do this.

Speaker 1: 31:36

You know when you went into my dad was a trapper.

Speaker 2: 31:39

Okay. So when you were learning, you know what was some of the trial and error that you experienced. You know, did you ever have equipment malfunction? You know something like that, Because you know, to people who don't know trapping or who are listening to this, you know it could be also just confusing. Like when I watch videos it's like well damn, like how do you set that up? Like, how do you do this? How do you know like things are working? So what was the trial and error for you in the beginning?

Speaker 1: 32:08

Well, I got lucky because a lot of my trial and error my father had lived, so he taught me you know about just avoiding some basic mistakes. The big thing that I like to do and we're getting close to that time of year is I always do trap preparation. I pull up the traps that I'm gonna use that year, whether it be my water traps, my, like, my canine traps, my, you know, the Fox and Kyle ones and I just go through them and make sure everything's functioning as it should. You know, and you can adjust the pans and you know everything else on them from the pressure you want. I have a trap pan tester and we'll go through that and I have pans set for that are heavier for Kyle, it's in lighter for raccoons and mink, you know, because you know lighter animal it doesn't need that much pressure to spring it. So I go through a lot of that and to make sure they're clean and I hose everything down and I usually what I like to do is for brand new traps. They're gonna come out shiny steel. So what I like to do is I hang them outside and you wanna develop a light layer of rust on them, because what you do before trap and season is for land animals, you dye and wax, but for water animals for the most part I just dye my traps and the dye dulls them, you know, nice and dark, dark, brown, black. And then the wax will make everything like on your land traps because you're firing through dirt. It'll make everything go faster, as it should, you know. So everything's working properly, you know, and that's usually a pretty big ordeal for me. Now I'm old school. You could buy liquid log crystals and everything to dye your traps, and some guys like speed dip and the speed dip comes out nice, but I don't really like mixing my traps with gas. I have my buddy Stump. He likes speed dip and he has great success with catching coyotes too.

Speaker 1: 34:18

But my favorite thing to use is black walnuts. Usually around the first week of October I'll go around I don't know where there's black walnut trees and I'll pick a couple buckets of black walnuts. And I have a 55 gallon drum and I have a burner my father made a long time ago. I put that under, I fill it up with water and I put all the black walnuts in there and I just let that heat up to about a simmer. Well, I let it boil. You know, get a roaring boil because black walnuts have what's called tannin in them and the tannin leaks, leaches out and it makes everything black and the tannin adheres to the rust that layer of rust I was talking about. It heals them and you get a perfectly colored trap when you're done.

Speaker 1: 35:10

You know, I said you could buy the logwood dye and everything else. You know, there's nothing wrong with that. I've logwood dyed my traps before, but for some reason I just like picking the black walnuts. The only problem with that is the squirrels tend to find them after I'm done and I got black walnuts laying all over my driveway. But it is what it is, you know.

Speaker 2: 35:34

Yeah, no, and it's getting that, the preparation, everything like that. It's always going to keep, just like any type of hunter, any type of fisherman, anything you're doing, you should really prep your stuff, making sure everything works and everything and getting it to where it needs to be, you know, before you get out and before you know your season or anything like that. It goes to kind of the maintenance side of it, because there's some moving parts and some people like to use WD-40 and stuff like that. Is there a lot of moving parts in these traps where you're having to, especially with a long winter and a cold winter? You know how often during a season are you, you know, or years, are you using some WD-40 or something like that, just to make sure everything is still moving easily?

Speaker 1: 36:35

Well it comes. Like I said, for the most part, I never really had to use WD-40 on them. They're really mechanically, they're pretty simple, I mean you have on a coil spring trap.

Speaker 1: 36:47

You have springs and then you have the dog that's slapped by, holds a pan back and a pan, you know, and you have your levers to set it in. But I've never really had anything rust up bad on me, you know, and that goes back to how you treat your equipment. So, like I said at the end of the season, hose everything off good, you know, put it away, and then when I pull them out again, I hose off everything good and just, you know, if you keep up on it you're not going to run into too much maintenance issues with your traps. You know, that's the biggest thing, like anything else, like cleaning your rifle when you're done hunting or you guys don't hunt with rifles, you hunt with what shotguns, I think.

Speaker 2: 37:31

Shotguns, but mostly New Jersey's a bow hunting state, like from September to mid. Yeah, yeah, bow hunters, but yeah, when we do, when guns didn't start, shotguns, muzzle loaders, and the only time you can use a rifle is during coyote season and it's up to a.22 caliber.

Speaker 1: 37:54

Okay, yeah, we well, we use lots of stuff here.

Speaker 2: 38:00

Yeah, yeah, PA is a big difference.

Speaker 1: 38:04

Yeah, it's across the Delaware River. You're in the real world. Yeah, so it's pretty much like I said, but no, it's like anything else. So just you know, you put your guns away clean before archery season. You're looking at your strings, you're looking at your cables, you know everything good there, you know.

Speaker 2: 38:24

Yeah, definitely, definitely. You know, and when you're going into a trapping season, you know what's really the goal for you, are you? What do you do with the pelts, too, as well? So, like, if you're going to a season, what's your goal that you're looking for with certain animals, or you're specifically targeting animals, like this year, I know it's going to be otter, but what's your goals with that? And then also, like you know, what are you looking like to do with the pelts and stuff like that?

Speaker 1: 38:54

Well, this is what I usually end up doing. See, when we were, when we were still in high school, me and my brother trapped quite a bit you know muskrat there's still quite a bit of muskrats around. We were trapping raccoons. We picked up a couple of flocks you know what I mean Maybe a mink or two, and I actually got pictures in the house of me and him when we were younger, when everything would all are hides on a board at the end of the year in front of the shed. But that's a job in itself.

Speaker 1: 39:24

So you made your catch and these days it's sad to say, but fur is almost worthless as far as what you get out of it anymore. But I these days I tend to pick something that I want and I have a buddy that tans and you know I have him tan it for me and it comes out really nice. You know, the first beautiful and somebody that doesn't trap wants a raccoon tan or something. I'll. You know I'll give them a raccoon or anything else. It's there, you know, it's nice. You know, and it's a shame that fur is down the way it is, because fur is a renewable resource. People don't realize and they're making all these years ago, when fur was fashionable. There's people that have their grandmother's mink coats and everything. Now all this synthetic stuff that they're making don't last nearly as long.

Speaker 1: 40:20

Yeah yeah, fur coats are handed through the generations, but it's just not like that, no more. And sadly, everything is suffering from it because now you're getting more cases of rabies. Because populations are up high, predation is terrible amongst swans, young turkeys, rabbits, grouse, pheasants, everything's ducks and geese. You know everything's taken hit because your raccoons, your skunks, your possums, they're nest raiders. They stumble upon the turkey nest that has 13 or 14 eggs. They'll sit there and eat every one of them. And there goes a flock of turkeys.

Speaker 2: 41:02

Yeah, the turkey population, and I definitely. I believe I read somewhere where the turkey population is down.

Speaker 1: 41:11

We are in a decline in Pennsylvania and I can tell you that from the amount of gobbles I used to hear 15 years ago to now is drastically down. Now there's a couple other factors into that too. We had some wet springs and stuff and this year our turkey number was actually pretty decent. For what I'm heard, I didn't shoot a gobbler this year. This was the first year I think I counted in 18 years that I at least didn't get a shot at a gobbler.

Speaker 1: 41:41

But across the board it's talking amongst my friends and everything A lot of them killed birds and I still heard a few. But I'm just saying 10 or 15 years ago I heard a lot more turkeys in the spring and even saw even in the fall when they're all grouped up. I'm just not seeing that, no more than it used to be. Even our state bird, our grouse population is horrible in Pennsylvania right now. Now there's a few around, but I remember following my dad when I was a kid up by where the cabin is falling behind him. It'll be none. The six or seven grouse out it just taking a little loop we would do that now there's people that haven't seen a grouse in years.

Speaker 1: 42:27

That's our state bird Now. I will tip my hat off to the Game Commission for this. There's a lot of timbering going on in Pennsylvania and rough grouse, whitetail, deer, turkeys. Everything thrives in a young forest. Pennsylvania was filled with old growth and now A lot of that old growth is starting to get harvested, and that's a good thing, because I said you're going to have a diverse habitat. You know which you need it. When, then, you know they get that cover, they can hide from predators easier. You know whether it be aerial or on you know ground predators, you know.

Speaker 2: 43:08

Yeah, no, it's a very it's so crazy to you know, and everyone's got to remember that. You know, this is just. Everything needs a balance. You know, even our forests, you know, and at the end of the day, you look at the forest fires up in Canada and everything like that, and is it worse because of how hot it is and how dry it is? Yes, but you got to remember also, at the same time, the earth does also. It does like fires are also natural. It is a natural thing to do what happened? Yeah, to have a forest fire and everything like that, because, yes, a lot of it's devastating. It wasn't supposed to be this bad. No, but a forest fire is not out of the you know the question. That's why a lot of places now pick up. You know prescribed burns and you're having you know that area is gone too.

Speaker 1: 44:02

Yeah and it's very useful Burn.

Speaker 1: 44:05

Yeah, yes, it is, and turkeys love when a prescribed burn comes through. It's easier for them to pick the food off. You know, grasshoppers and everything else that are in that burnt floor, because that's all they do is, they just burn the floor for the most part, you know, try to get rid of I mean we have a for the most part in the bigger woods we have ferns growing everywhere. That's nice to see them burn out, but no, it's like I said, you get them young dryers and everything else up. That's all new food coming up for the deer and everything else. You know, and that's they're doing. They stepped up their game a lot that I noticed within the past 10 years with doing habitat projects as far as timber and goes and prescribed burns. You know I was, you know, just happy to see that going on. You know I'm seeing, you know it'd be nice to see you. You know I've noticed that even in the area that I hunt I have been seeing a few more deer than I have, because the deer herd it's pretty low in the mountainous area that I hunt, you know. But I've been noticing that I have been seeing a few more deer over the past few years and I'm just happy to see that, you know, even though I'm not shooting a good 90% of them. You know I'm waiting on a buck for the most part, but I'm just happy that I'm seeing a few deer around me.

Speaker 1: 45:32

You know I used to go up there. There'd be, you know, my friends, you know they, you know they understand it. But they would always laugh. But the one time I hunted it was I was on stand back when deer we used to start. On Monday it was Friday at 3.30 in the afternoon I shot a buck and I saw a doe in a yearling the day before. So I sat for four days before I finally saw a deer, so that doe in a yearling. In the next day I shot an eight pointer at 3.30, but that's just the way it is when you hunt up in the big woods.

Speaker 1: 46:09

You know it's a challenge and, to tell you the truth, I wouldn't have it any other way. I mean I'm lucky because I got to experience both worlds. I hunt, they said, susquehanna County too. It's a farm. I hunt 300 acre beef cattle farm and it's nothing for me to go up there to see 10 to 20 deer just in a couple hours, you know. But that's that's mostly where my doe hunting gets done. You know, I I like to help them out a little bit with just your thrive in that agricultural area. But, like I said, I get to experience both worlds. I get to experience big woods hunting and I get to experience agricultural and all that's. It's a nice thing that I'm an hour within an hour of those two worlds, you know.

Speaker 2: 46:56

Yeah, and which is great, you know. Before we dabble into a little more into into white-tail hunting, I want to get last more. One more for trapping. Is you know, when you're doing your predator trapping, you know one that's such a key to managing the population. It helps so many different, like we said, it helps the deer, helps. This help helps that you know it's like it is a thrill to. I love coyotes, I love hunting them, things like that. But to trap them, how? What are your traps like for coyotes versus the others? You know, are you are you kind of using the same one where it's the you're talking about with the dog?

Speaker 1: 47:41

the dog one, but they're bigger yeah.

Speaker 2: 47:43

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 47:45

So your your basic traps you got are. You have body grippers. They're kind of bears but they're for water, they're for water animals, they're for beaver, they're for muskrats. You know, I, like I said, I really don't mess with them too much for muskrats we use to, but for beaver I tend to prefer to leg hold and, like I said, I have coil springs I use. And then I'm sure you've seen the old long springs, the big long springs the mountain, like the mountain then used to use. I still liked for going old school. I still kind of like to use them once in a while. And I actually I said I'd go back about my buddy's stump I gave him, I forget, two or three a while ago and he, he caught, he caught beaver in them. He's up by. I'm sure you ever heard of the pack like Wampop pack.

Speaker 2: 48:33

Yes, I have.

Speaker 1: 48:34

Yeah, he lives kind of up there there and that section of the polka nose, they have otter season. They had it already for a few years and he actually trapped his first otter last year. That was pretty cool. You know, somebody I know got one. You know I thought that was neat but uh, but yeah, for predators we use we use coil springs. 175 is the size, 1.75 or 1.3 quarters there. That's my favorite, that's my favorite size.

Speaker 1: 49:07

For the most part it's good on a fox It'll hold a coyote. Now, if I know I'm going to strictly work where there's coyotes, I like using. I like using the number, the number twos. You know I like Victor's duke's duke makes good traps. Now, uh, my buddy stump, he likes.

Speaker 1: 49:26

Uh, my father has a few of these and I actually have, uh, I have the fox version. They're called. The ones that they like are the MB 550s Minnesota brand. They're very well made traps and we like the use of offset jaws. Where the jaws don't close, they're better for, like, a canine type of an animal with a pie makes it a lot more comfortable on them and it actually holds better, you know there's. So for canine traps I like offset jaws, you know, and, like you said there's a little more preparation work with canines. You know, sent controls a big thing. I use different sense.

Speaker 1: 50:01

Now I'll just go over my favorite set I like for canines and I've got a lot of flocks and you'll actually you'll catch anything in this. This is called the dirt hole set. What you're mimicking is basically a mouse hole. So a fox or a coyote, you know, naturally going to check you know a mouse hole in their own hunting, you know. So, uh, well, I'll make the dirt hole set. I get a pound of I use rebar stakes to hold the traps down and I'll pound in a little ways and I'll ream it out, make it look like a whole easy, put like a little, a little rock or something as a backer there and I use up.

Speaker 1: 50:38

I usually use, uh, you get it dates. They're like yeah, it ground up mice or something that you use. You stick down that hole. Then I'll usually put a little like, if I'm working fox, I'll put a little little fox gland and then, uh, they like to investigate urine too, so I'll squirt, you know, fox urine around the other side. They're just for a little bit of curiosity to get them working, you know. And then you know you have your trap bedded down. And then another thing too is no matter what you're trapping, always bed your trap, because if they step on a jaw and something wiggles, a lot of times they'll just dig the trap and they'll snap it. They're quite crafty, it's. It's amazing how you know how prepared and how perfect everything has to be for you to fool an animal to put his foot on that pan. You know that's all good when it all comes together. You know you. You know you help the fox, the fox, you know?

Speaker 2: 51:32

yeah, and that was going to be, like you know, one of my, my next questions, but you kind of answered, you know cause? I've heard so much. You know coyotes, foxes, they, they are smart, they know what they're doing.

Speaker 1: 51:44

you know they're they're not easy towards Wiley coyote, yeah, yup.

Speaker 2: 51:51

And you know it's four. It's for a reason, you know, and you know scent plays such a big, big key. I imagined you know, do you have to worry as much about scent with the other animals? Um, like you do with Foxy coyote no right, Okay, that's right.

Speaker 1: 52:06

No, not so much. Like I said, for water animals. You don't, you're not, you're not worried about anything like your fox, your coyotes, you know. Bobcat, you know pretty much, you know they're, they're smart predators. So you got to, you got to be smarter than them. I mean, sometimes you always learn, but you know. But no, that's scent control. And on your canines is the biggest thing you have to watch for, even watch like I carry a kneeling pad with me.

Speaker 1: 52:32

I kneel down on when I'm making my set, you know, and I actually, for when we're getting, when we're getting into the colder months, like even uh, sometimes I'll trap up by my cab and if I get a couple of vacation days to play with or whatever, I'll go up and I'll trap for a few days. But years ago there's a guy. Guy lived down down the road, for me a little ways Only uh, his nickname was Trapper Joe. He died a few years ago. He told me a long time ago he used to use ant hill dirt when they would make a set, and to this day I still do it, because it is actually ant hill dirt and if you ever walk by an ant hill in the winter, let's go ahead and poke it. You don't get a stick and poke it or whatever. Ant hill dirt does not freeze.

Speaker 1: 53:22

Oh, wow I kind of like using it. I kind of like using it. I said there's. I could go on for a long time. There's a hundred tips and tricks and everything else Now you could use or make commercially wax dirt because the wax dirt helps you. Now in Pennsylvania our bobcat and fisher season starts right around the time that, uh, beaver does, you know, december, you're going into December, late December, january, on some of this stuff grounds frozen, you know, even with snow, like my buddy stump he's good at, he traps in the winter, you know he does wax dirt and everything. You know I don't. I'm usually not focusing on predators at that point of time. Most of my predator trapping is done before Thanksgiving, you know, while the ground's a little easier to work with, and then after buck season's over, and you know we're in that time between before Christmas I'm usually out running looking for water animals mink, beaver, you know, raccoons, all that. But uh, yeah, that's just some ways they still use this day. I still like doing that and you know that that's, that's, that's a.

Speaker 2: 54:30

that's a pretty cool one and that's that's something unique I had. I had no idea If I receive an anhyl in the winter.

Speaker 1: 54:36

I am definitely going to check it out. Like I said, anhyl dirt anhyl dirt doesn't freeze, or something that the ants have in them that for some reason I said it does not freeze. Now, maybe the top might a little bit, but for the most part that center you're going to focus, stick into it, you know, or whatever you do, you know. But yeah, if that's new, you can go hearing about that trick. There's not too many, not a whole lot of people out there that know about that.

Speaker 2: 55:03

Yeah, and now, yeah, I've never heard that one, so that that's definitely a new one. Um, you know we're we're going to have to definitely get you back on to talk more trapping. I mean, I know you do everything and you know we're we're definitely going to be talking in the future, but I definitely need I'm going to have another trapping episode because we're just scratching the surface and, like you said, you know, you know, yeah, we're definitely going to have to dive into detail on the next one with deer season. You know, for while we're talking, coming up when this episode records, we are well into deer season.

Speaker 2: 55:44

What does it look like for you? You know, we'll do. We'll do a quick rundown and then we can dive more into it on the next time we talk. But you know what are you looking for with this upcoming season? You know, up in PA.

Speaker 1: 55:59

Well, I don't go on too much anymore. I just kind of. I used to work for contractors for a long time so I'd end up working so dark while archery season was going on and I'd be working Saturdays and everything. So I kind of fell away from archery, you know. But when I was bow hunting, I I did. I was able to harvest one deer with my bow in Pennsylvania. I got it dull and I got it with a bear grizzly recurve. That was my grandfather's. He bought it when he got out of the air force during, you know, shortly after Vietnam, and he got his first buck with the bow with it and after he passed away. This was back in 2000,. He died in 07, but I got the bow in 2011 and first archery deer I ever got, I got with the, I got with the bear recurve. You know I thought that was neat. You know I had a compound and I never, I never had a crossbow.

Speaker 1: 57:01

And you know my dad, he now hunts for the crossbow. He, you know he hunted with the compound as long as his body was able to let him. But he had back issues and he had shoulder issues. Not long ago he had cancer twice. So you know, now he hunts for the crossbow and you know, and they're a good thing too. You know it's unacceptable to what? If that's what makes you happy when you want to hunt with? You know, by all means, go for it.

Speaker 2: 57:28

You know of course yeah.

Speaker 1: 57:30

My brother. My brother loves to bow hunt. He's pretty good. Usually when he gets a buck he's done an archery season. I kind of I kind of like the Pennsylvania rifle season. You know I enjoy it. You know I go up my cabin. My uncles are there. You know my dad. Even if my dad gets a buck in our tree he still comes up and we have dinner every night and we all get out back from the woods when it's because the old man and my uncles, they all hunt, like me, we hunt all day and we come out of the woods when it's dark.

Speaker 1: 58:04

Last year we were quite successful for public land, big woods. All four of us killed the buck. My dad got a seven in our tree and my uncle Ed got an eight with the gun. My uncle Joe got an eight with the gun and then on the last day of the season I got an eight with the rifle. Some of our we're pretty basic, we're calibers, but our calibers and rifles are tried and proven. We hunt with the good old 30-06. It saved the world from tyranny twice, you know World War I, and it stopped Hitler and the Nazis. It's, it's going up the hunt deer way. In fact, if you look it up, the world record, kodiak bear was killed in Alaska in 1952 with a 30-06, with a 180 grain bullet. You know they call it the venerable 30-06 for a reason.

Speaker 2: 59:03

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 59:04

I got a 30-06 as well. I used it up in Maine, the people in the gun safe. You have to have one, you know.

Speaker 2: 59:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I use mine up in because you know of course we can't use the hair. So you know, up in Maine I use in the big woods up north and up in New York.

Speaker 1: 59:22

Let me ask you what make rifle do you have?

Speaker 2: 59:24

Excuse me.

Speaker 1: 59:27

What make rifle? Do you have A Remington or a Winchester?

Speaker 2: 59:32

I think it's Savage. I think I do. Oh, you got a.

Speaker 1: 59:35

Savage.

Speaker 2: 59:36

Yeah, I got a.

Speaker 1: 59:37

Savage.

Speaker 2: 59:37

Yeah, bolt action. I'm a huge when it comes to that. I do love my classic bolt actions. I do want to get a bolt guy. I do want to get you know, of course I have my you know my AR and stuff like that. But, like I'm a huge, I have two Savage. They're mostly the identical, except for one chambered in 30-06 and the others for and 2234.

Speaker 1: 1:00:02

That's my predator gun here, predator gun. Yeah, I love that job.

Speaker 2: 1:00:05

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:00:10

Savages are accurate. I have several Savage rifles and every one of them shoots up MOA. They're very, very good rifles. I mean I have, I like. My main gun I use is a 308. It's a Remington Model 788. My father gave it to me when I started hunting. He would have bought me because I remember him telling me he would have bought me a brand new Model 700 BDL. But I wanted his rifle and that's the rifle. He ended up buying a 700. He bought a 30-06 and I hunted with that 308. I took it to Wyoming with me. I shot an antelope. Just my setup, just a three to nine loop old scope. I shot an antelope at 300 yards away with it. No problem with my buddy's dad, Mr Gregory his name is. He does my hand load in. He, he loaded me. They worked the load up for me for my 308 with a Sierra Game King was the bullet tip and I.

Speaker 1: 1:01:03

It's equally deadly. On beer here too the buck I shot last year didn't like it, that's for sure. But we like the 243 as well. The 243, we love that versatile. On beer, we hunt a lot of wood shucks. Here too it works great. On wood shucks, you know you get to go down to like 55 grains and go up to around 100 grains for deer. Very versatile, very versatile calibers. You know when I said in between that's what most of our deer were shot with 30 out sixes, 308, 243s coupled with the 270 and my one uncle and my buddy shark likes a seven M08.

Speaker 2: 1:01:44

And I love, you know, I love the, the finish on your guns. I love that older wooden type of you know style. I do. I have all black ones. I do like my old black, but eventually I do want to get it like a that more. It just reminds me of just more of a, a classic style.

Speaker 1: 1:02:00

Yeah, we hunt, we hunt with model 700s. And my one uncle, he loves his pre 64 Winchester model 70, featherweight that's. I've seen a lot of deer go down with that gun that's chambered in 30 hot six. And another famous, famous Pennsylvania gun. And I have one too, the Remington model seven 60 game master.

Speaker 2: 1:02:24

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:02:26

Well, we got to cut. We call it the Pennsylvania accordion, the Amish assault rifle. But that's another famous gun you'll see, carried in Pennsylvania along with Winchester and Marlin lever actions. I can't, I can't leave the 30, 30 out of this. The 30, 30 has taken many deer in Pennsylvania.

Speaker 2: 1:02:47

On, on, on on. Like a rough guess, estimate your family combined, how many you know off the years and years and years of hunting. What do you think your, your number is? Is with deer as far as bucks killed.

Speaker 1: 1:03:03

Yeah, Well, yeah I kind of figured this out one time. All right, so my uncle Ed had in his cause. We all have cabins up there. You know, I I'm over. When my grandfather bought the original place, he built it there we lived in town. He actually hauled up a house that was being torn apart and rebuilt it into a cabin, and they haunt it out of that forever. Now, as time went on we're getting into like the mid nineties here my uncle Ed went, you know, and he bought a lot and built his own cabin and around that time the cabin next to the homestead it's our name is spike buck, was spike buck cabin, because back in the day that's all pretty much everybody shot. I mean, I can rant and rave about how great antler restrictions are, but the proofs in the pudding with the bucks that are getting killed in this state. But we still, you know, we always liked that name spike buck, that's the name of our cabin. But around that time, next to the spike buck, the cabin next to it went up for taxes and my grandfather bought it and he redid the whole thing, so he had two there.

Speaker 1: 1:04:21

Now, in 2019, you know, sadly, my grandfather passed away. He was 91 and he hunted deer up till he was 89. And when he passed away it was nice enough to leave me and my brother and my father the one cabin in all. My uncle Joe, my dad's oldest brother, he's he's, he's in the spike buck. My uncle Eddie has his place and my dad has 10 acres not far from us either that he built the brand new cabin on, you know, and you want to have other uncles and cousins that are up there. It's just that that that was a big part of our life and it still is. You know and I'm glad it's still there that we could do it. A lot of people don't get to experience that in their life and I've been blessed since I was 12 to be living a lifestyle like that, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:05:15

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:05:17

And as far as the number of deer goes, this isn't far fetched sand. We're probably well over a hundred bucks, you know, between my dad, my grandfather and two of my uncles, myself and my brother got a buck or two up there as well. Well, you know, he doesn't. He likes fighting by his house now and, like I said, everybody can do what they want. If that's where you're happy and you want to hunt, then that's where you go. And my sister-in-law, she hunts with them. She got a buck with them one time and she got a doe last year with the muzzleloader, and she'll probably won't be hunting too much this year because their daughter is going to be born next month, you know. So that'll be cool you know?

Speaker 2: 1:06:03

Yeah, yeah, I think that happens. You know, the hunting time definitely dies down for a little bit.

Speaker 1: 1:06:11

Yeah for the most for a little bit, but you know. And then who's to say that she might see us going and they'd want to go one day. You know what I mean? That's a lot of women are hunting now. That's a big thing.

Speaker 2: 1:06:23

Oh yeah, it is huge and well needed. It is something that you know it is and some of these girls are different.

Speaker 1: 1:06:34

I believe hunter education should be taught in school, even firearm handling. There's nothing wrong. You know, I mean, and I've been around firearms my whole life, I, you know, between growing up hunting and shooting everything, and I'm, I serve in the military, I'm in the National Guard, and you know I there's nothing wrong with? Oh no, don't worry about that, I just I, you know it's. I believe that some everybody should learn is how to handle firearms safely.

Speaker 1: 1:07:07

I know, and then I believe and I believe you would have a lot less problems if people were properly educated about firearms. You know safe practice in my, my one buddy that lived in a. He retired. He retired from the Marine Corps. He went to the same high school that I did. They used to have a rifle team, you know, and they would shoot 22 rifles. You know how times have changed.

Speaker 2: 1:07:34

Yeah, it's, it's. It's not not like he used to be, but I definitely agree Both hunter education and you know gun safety and just you know learning your way around it and everything like that. And I think if you know what we do of course you know my family, all the kids at a young age they start learning you know, cause it is a very important detail. You need to know that it's not and I think if you learn it young, you know it's, it's you know you, you take it more serious.

Speaker 1: 1:08:03

You know the firearm is, you're taking it serious. You know what I mean. People who never experienced being around a firearm don't know anything about it. You know you're taught from number one muzzle awareness. I pull a rifle or anything out of my safe. First thing I do is open up the action check. You never know. You know what I mean. That's just habits developed over time. You know it's it's. You know, like I said, everybody should, I believe, get a take a hunter safety course. Or you know what I mean and learn about it. And and even they said like they're in the COVID. When that started they said hunting and fishing licenses soared through the roof. People had time to hunt, firearms sales went up. People were getting in the hunting. I think that's a good thing, you know. I'm glad people learned that this is out there and this exists, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:09:00

I uh, yep, couldn't, could have said it better myself. Um, I'm going to give, I'm going to go. One more question Um, it is, it is our biggest question that we always ask on the podcast Um, what is your dream hunt? If you could hunt anywhere in the world for two weeks, what animal and where would it be?

Speaker 1: 1:09:22

Uh, that's a good question. Uh, I always liked the idea of hunting moose, you know, years ago. I still have it, I have a DVD. I had all the Fred Bears bow hunts on that and they went to Alaska and it was neat. They shot a caribou and they, Fred, got a, a doll sheep. But I'd like to hunt, like, uh, I'd like to hunt moose, like that. You know, going to like a like Nulfenland, I'd like to do Nulfenland and hunt moose and bear. You know, I hunted Wyoming and Wyoming is a beautiful state. I'd go back there again in a heartbeat.

Speaker 2: 1:09:57

I love it. Yeah, now it's moose. You can never go wrong with moose. I I'm a huge moose guy. Um bear cheer, yeah, we put in for the main we put in for the main permit.

Speaker 1: 1:10:11

I just put in this year my, my one buddy. They they go up every year to Maine for uh. They go up for the month of October. They run a bunch of Beagle hounds for uh, for snowshoe heros. They run them on and they hunt, grouse too a little bit while they're up there and uh. But they always put in for the moose drawing. They got drawn for a cow one here and he and he shot the cow and well, of course he shot the cow moose.

Speaker 1: 1:10:32

When at 30, at six, you know, go back to that but now that's I'd like to do. I'd like to. I think I do moose, moose like that, and I mean we hunt. I hunt bear in Pennsylvania too, but uh, yeah, I'd go moose, I think.

Speaker 2: 1:10:49

Yeah, perfect, perfect. Um, well, we're, we're gonna. It was great. We're gonna end here. We're, we're gonna have you on again. Um, definitely to go over um more in depth with um trapping. There's yet again. You got the bear hunts, we got, you know, more deer, I think.

Speaker 1: 1:11:08

whatever you want to talk more. I could talk for hours about white animals.

Speaker 2: 1:11:12

Oh yeah. So the uh once we start, um, because this is our last episode that we're going to be doing episode uh, that I'm going to have a guest on, a scheduled guest like this. Um, the minute we start picking up again, we'll probably do a um, I'm thinking about doing a bear one for our bear season, new Jersey, doing a little series, um, so I'll let you know about that. Um, when trapping we'll we'll we'll get some more out for for trapping, we'll do another one for trapping, um, and I'll definitely let you know.

Speaker 1: 1:11:49

It was.

Speaker 2: 1:11:51

It was a huge pleasure have a new one, definitely, definitely. Um, you know everyone. I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. Go follow Jason. Down below is Instagram is going to be in the link down below. If you have any questions on trapping or anything like that, please hit them up asking some questions, are you? Most of us are. You know, we've never done it before. So trapping is something that uh is a pretty big interest in mind that I do plan on getting into at some point, and I I know a lot of people out there, they, they do as well. Um, jason, yet again, like I said, thank you so much for coming on and uh, we'll, we'll see you next time, no problem, definitely.

Speaker 1: 1:12:35

I'd love to. After hunting season we'll talk back again, cause we got a. We even I'd love to talk about flintlock hunting. There's not another state that has a flintlock like we do.

Speaker 2: 1:12:47

Yes, and I can tell you some stories about that. Oh yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm a hundred percent excited. Let's definitely do it. And um, we'll, we'll be talking Sounds good Thanks for having me. Thank you, take care, have a good night and good luck this season.

Speaker 1: 1:13:03

Yeah, you too. You too, you know these are. These are some fine folks drive around with them front license plates. Yeah, Thank you.