The Round Table Segment part 2: Seasoned Hunters

Speaker 2: 0:21

Welcome back to the Garnet State Outdoors and Podcast presented by Boondock Sounding. I'm your host, mike Nitro Frank, it's you, you're next.

Speaker 1: 0:30

Oh sorry, I'm Frank Waseco.

Speaker 2: 0:34

Usually Peyton's here and then Peyton will go, and then Frank will go and then Steve will go. So we usually have an order. It must be because Peyton is not here that it threw Frank off. But welcome to our listeners out there. Who's listening in their car or whatever they're doing. We got another round table segment here for you guys. We got our guy Dave, we got Chris, we got American Mike Peyton and Steve should be on later. Hopefully Paul will make it Paul's right now out in Texas trying to shoot himself a hog. Hopefully Reaper makes it on as well and whoever else wants to pop on. But guys, welcome Going on, guys.

Speaker 3: 1:13

Thanks for having us.

Speaker 2: 1:15

Yeah, no, it's always great having all you guys on. It's some of my favorite guys and the you know who I talk to constantly all on one show. And if Mike and Dave and Chris, you guys met only once at the at the shoot that we did correct? Yeah Well, everyone knows American Mike. He is the, he's the deerslayer of New Jersey. I mean just an absolute wagon of a year this year. I mean very impressive. We kind of talked about a little bit. Dave asked Mike what broad heads he shoots all those animals with and you know the good old response with the great old sever. But Mike, first of all your page. I always have to give a shout out every time you're on because the food, the cooking style, you know it gives exactly what the back damn is. And I really did like every day you get on like it's absolutely amazing, but you had tongue last night. Let the viewers know how the tongue was, how dear tongue is.

Speaker 6: 2:19

Honestly, that was my first time ever having tongue. I've never had like beef tongue or any other type of tongue. And the way how I got it was when Rupa does the skulls he has to take the jaw completely apart. So I'm like yo let's, let's try this. Yo put it to the side, we're going to grab a couple together. We did. We got maybe like four of them together and my dad cleaned it up. You know he's had chef, so he cleaned it up, he cooked it up and it honestly tastes like chicken gizzard, like it's just as hard and chewy like chicken gizzard and there's like no, you can't tell that you're eating deer. There's nothing that gives you any hint of deer or wild game or any type of off putting taste. It's, it's pretty pleasant. It's a clean piece of meat.

Speaker 2: 3:08

Is this something that you're going to start well, is this something that you're going to start doing regularly? Or is this what a one time, one time thing? Or now seasons, the past? You're going to be taking the tongue out and having the tongue.

Speaker 6: 3:21

It's a little hard to get the tongue out. It's not like you know in our loin that it's right there. You can just cut it out. The only reason why we did it was because Rupa had to take the face apart anyway. So if he's working on one and it's fresh, I plan to utilize it. Other than that, I don't think I'm going to go, you know, breaking a finger trying to get the damn tongue out.

Speaker 2: 3:42

Man, that's, that's. That's pretty cool. I'm pretty amazing, dave. Chris, we saw you guys at the outdoor show. We haven't talked to you. We haven't been on since the since the last time, I think, we did the segment or something like that Um, so a whole season has gone by. Break it down real quick for us. Yeah, I know you guys are going to be on probably later in this off season with a more detailed episode, but give us a quick breakdown. I'm going to guys.

Speaker 3: 4:07

Hans, you want a Chris? No, go ahead, All right. So I, uh, I had another long season. I think I was right at that 50 sit mark Again, I don't, I just use that as a gauge just to kind of let me know, you know, am I sitting more or less than the previous previous season? So ended up at one dough nice and early in the season, which is good. I think it was probably the first first week and a half of October, um, kind of right right where I thought it was going to happen.

Speaker 3: 4:37

And then I went into full on just absolute chasing of. Uh, I started out with seven shooter bucks going into from September to October. I I chose to try for either either one of the two that I spent October, November, chasing and you guys seen the page. A lot of people have fought along with me, seen it. Um, I was literally just one step behind the whole season.

Speaker 3: 5:03

No matter what I did, um, I had a lot of fun chasing them on public land. Don't get me wrong. There's a lot of frustrating sits in the sand, you know, some some quiet mornings, some quiet afternoons, but no matter what I look at that, it's still a win. Yeah, I learned so much this season and, at the very least, from chasing those bucks as long as I did this whole season, um, I found was actually going to be my primary hunting spot for next season. So that's how I look at it no matter what you got to try and find a positive out of it, and if I had to earn my stripes again this season but that means next year it puts me in an even better chance to try and close the book on one of these, for me, pretty, pretty high caliber bucks. I mean I would say one of them was probably right around 150 and one of them, I think, was even larger than that. I mean, Chris, you know, if you want to back me up on that, you, you see pretty in depth what I was after, and the two that I were after were, uh, would have been something. They would have been the biggest buck I've ever gotten to date.

Speaker 3: 6:03

So the chance was there. You know, I saw one of them at night, you know, last night, and I saw one of them in the morning before shooting light. So I mean, that's how close I was, but that's why it's hunting. You know, that's what we get out there to do, just to chase them. You know, and that's why you're, you're um, you're tagline Mike. You know, chase the unknown, it's perfect. You don't know what that morning's going to bring. You don't know what that afternoon's going to bring, so you just keep going. You know, hunting is fun. It's supposed to be fun. We talk about that a lot. So just go. It doesn't matter if you're having a good day or bad day, whatever. Just get out there and just keep going. You don't know what that next half hour can bring.

Speaker 2: 6:41

And now perfectly said and I mean um, it's, it's, it's so true. You know, I love the slogan that we have chasing unknown Mike. I mean Mike could tell you, if anyone listened to the early episodes that we did with him. I mean that, first, his first buck that he shot, uh, this year, I mean that wasn't the deer that he was expecting at all, like he was. Just he got out in the morning, cold Chris morning, is it? I can't remember pre-wrote right time.

Speaker 6: 7:06

It was like it was veterans day, so it was. You know, the rut was on.

Speaker 2: 7:12

Okay. So really you have no idea what the hell is going to happen during during that time in the woods. It's so unpredictable, it's the most, probably most unpredictable. The woods are going to be, I think, during that, like three, four, maybe that that month of a window, probably from October 30th, 29th, you know somewhere from there to all the way till Thanksgiving. So you know, it's so much as is just unknown about the woods.

Speaker 2: 7:40

And I absolutely love it. And Dave, I mean, to chase deer, like that it's no small task. Like that is a huge testament to hunters. And I mean you were after, you know 50 something sits. I mean, listen, we all know how that is. It just keeps going and going and going.

Speaker 2: 7:58

But you know something, I said it it makes you a better hunter, you know, and it's, it's, it's the grind that is so fun and so addicting. And I said this last episode, like if we shot deer every sit, it wouldn't be fun. Like if we just were successful every single time we went out, I don't, would really we be doing this? No, I think part is is the chess match, it's the who's going to make the first mistake. You know, is your wind right? Is this right? Is this right? Did I was able to draw my bow back correctly where nothing saw me, where the deer didn't see? You know there's so many. That goes into the factors. So when it does happen and it does pay off, then it's like your heart rates all the way in the 130s 140s. You're, you're crying, you're, you're, you throw up. You, you know you can't stop shaking. Your there's a pit in your stomach, but it's. It's all good feelings that we all love and enjoy. That just drives us even more to to keep accomplishing these great goals.

Speaker 3: 8:58

It made me realize how much I enjoy filming from the tree now as well. Obviously, with that many sets you're going to have some natural downtime built into that. But just thinking offhand, right on the spot, a couple of things I did get on camera. A great interaction with a pie bowl getting bumped around by a couple of bucks ended up coming right under me and it ended up being a great, you know, content for me for the page, because it ended up being like a great 40 second video where I was able to drop some of the background noise and you can hear these deer come running in. They were grunting each other, chasing them, and then here comes this pie bowl right underneath me actually grunting in on camera.

Speaker 3: 9:33

A buck, it just wasn't one of the ones I was after. He had a real nice one side. The other side, I don't know either, got hit by a car the season before, but just just a very weird, non-typical rack but grunting them in. I was able to follow him the whole way right on camera. He came literally right under me. So there's other. There's other wins as far as, let's say, for our brands, everything we're trying to do here outside the actual woods itself. So I've talked to Chris about that a lot. You know he's the one that really pushed me to. You know, find a camera, just bring it with you, just literally we joke about it, but just keep that camera rolling. You never know what's going to happen. So that is one thing I will take away. From last season I realized how much I do enjoy filming and I'll definitely promote it. You know, by any means, whatever is in your budget, I would recommend it to try it to people if they were thinking about it.

Speaker 2: 10:22

Frank and I were on the phone what? Maybe two hours ago, and that's exactly what you know. It doesn't matter what it is, you know. There's so much that you can do. Something is better than nothing. You know whether you're filming for brand purposes or whatever, but being able to go back and look at that's not my phone. Is it Always something with this? That's one what. The last time we did this, dave kept going in and out. So Dave would be talking and then he would just stop and freeze and we would be like hold on, give it a second. There he goes, he's back again.

Speaker 3: 11:03

It's like crumbling up a soda can at the beginning of the day, so I apologize about that. Yeah, I got a phone call.

Speaker 2: 11:11

No worries at all. But you know there's so much to be, so much knowledge to be gained. You know, with filming and that's a big part that I love about it and I will talk about it every episode if I have to you know you get to go back and watch the mistakes that deer make, how they interact when they don't think there's any, you know, humans around or any predators around. Like you get to pick up on every single detail in the behavior of the Whitetail, Woods or bears or whatever you're going after. And then you get to go back home and review it and be like you didn't pick up it during when you're hunting. But now you see it and it's like all right, like that, right there, Like I was able to watch a doe this year and I could, I had an idea that she wasn't hot and then all of a sudden, I think I came like a day back later and she actually peed in a scrape and she's rubbing and everything was changing right from there.

Speaker 2: 12:05

Like I was like she seems like she's hot, Like she seems like she's a hot doe, and I went back and I reviewed the film and confirmed it Like she, a hundred percent, peed right in that scrape and then she disappeared for three days. Her and my buck disappeared for three days and then, you know, three days later they both they literally both showed up, like she showed up, and then he showed up, I think like an hour after, and I was like, boom, right there. That just confirmed everything. Then I kind of had a feeling about you know prior on that hunt and I was able to go back and review the film and everything like that. But yeah, really great stuff, Mr Only bow, All right.

Speaker 2: 12:47

You had yourselves a good season.

Speaker 4: 12:49

Let's hear it. So I guess we could talk about my season. I kind of I had a couple of goals set for this year following last year. It was it was going to be tough to beat, so I guess we could start out, you know, in the early season. You know, leading up to it. You know I really didn't get a lot of scouting in. I was. I was kind of focused on on bear hunting a little bit, so a lot of my attention went there.

Speaker 4: 13:21

Early in the season. I did a couple of sits. It wasn't really about me. I did a couple of guiding trips this year, which which was part of my goal One of one of one of my team guys. John has never taken a buck with a bow, so I mean he's never taken a deer to begin with, so he wanted to get a buck with a bow. So my one of my main goals was to get him out and to get get him on a deer. Luckily we were able to do that. In total, I guess I could say I had five deer sits this year. Two of them were with John.

Speaker 4: 13:57

I got him out during the early season, the early antlerless season. We didn't. We didn't see anything. I don't want to say that he was discouraged, but you know it was. His time is kind of limited, so that you know, got him out, we got half a day in, we didn't see anything, you know. Okay, we still got all. We still got a long, long time to go. So, leading into the actual season, I got out, I popped a shot at a coyote, but it was right at opening morning, it was right at first light, so I didn't even get out of the tree to go get him. I said I'm just going to sit here and and wait for the deer to show up. Then showed up that day, ended up pulling out. Then we focused on deer hunting from there or, excuse me, bear hunting.

Speaker 4: 14:44

So, leading into into pretty much the, the prime of both seasons, I switched gears and was Jersey bear hunting. It was a good experience. I passed on three, three smaller bears. I had a, you know, a 500 plus pounder on camera that I was, that I was really shooting for and never, never got the opportunity at him. So I passed on on two smaller ones. One may, you know, may, have been 300 plus. The other ones were were, you know, under 200. They weren't even worth picking up the bow for. But all you know, all on all, bear season was a great experience, got a lot of a lot of good film. It was, you know it's. It's a good time Just being out in the woods that's that's what I do it for is just to enjoy it.

Speaker 4: 15:34

I was able to get out back in New York for deer hunting the one night I went out, got some good footage of you know, a small buck walking under my stand. I knew that there was a wide eight that I was chasing. I'm pretty sure he is of the same genes of the buck that I shot last year because he's got that same, that same wide build to his rack. I never I didn't see him Saw a small six come under my stand, which was, which was great Got a little bit of film.

Speaker 4: 16:08

The next morning I went out. I was, I was hoping to get you know, that big eight. I knew where he, I knew where he was going to be and, yeah, he, he didn't show up. But another heavy horned eight came out. And wouldn't you know what I was?

Speaker 4: 16:24

I was scheduled to go to work, so I was pat. I was beginning to pack up. I had packed up all my camera gear. I had taken my bow, gotten it ready to go. I was literally getting ready to get out of the stand and from down, you know, a couple of hundred yards away, I started hearing this crashing through the woods and this, this buck, came running in. I don't know what he would if he was maybe being pushed by another hunter, or if he was coming in looking for a fight, whatever it was. He came in, um, and it just under 40, I was able to to knock an arrow and and connect with him. I watched him pile up five yards, you know, 45 yards away. So that, uh, that was pretty successful overall. You know, I didn't I have one picture that my buddy sent me, about a mile away, of that buck in velvet in the early summer, which was, which was kind of cool, um, but I've, no, I had no history with that buck on our property. So it was, uh, it was definitely a cool encounter to be able to, to seal the deal.

Speaker 4: 17:24

That was, that was October 23rd, so we were already starting to get into the rut. Uh, I went out one more time and I I made a snap decision that morning to sit in a different tree than the one I had picked to sit in, and if I had sat in the tree that I originally had picked, that wide eight ended up coming within 30 yards of that tree. So I I would have been able to seal the deal with him as well. But from where I had selected to sit, he ended up being about, you know, 80 yards away and there was. You know, I wasn't going to try, and you know, try and pop a shot like that Could I have maybe done it, yeah, but I wasn't going to risk it with that buck. Um, that was, that was the last time I got. I was able to get out for the season. Um, so in total, five trips two of them were were guided. You know I was guiding somebody.

Speaker 4: 18:19

So a pretty successful year. Uh, you know, I, I have, I have no regrets about this year. Um, yeah, overall good and that I'm from. You know the intelligence I've been able to gather. Later in the season A friend of mine was out squirrel hunting and actually ran into my big buck, so he made it through the season. He's still alive, as if he survives the summer. I'll be chasing him this year. Um, you know, a lot of a lot of anticipation last year going into what I, what I have going on this year. Um and I know that's not really a secret at this point, so we'll see. You know, we'll see what. We'll see what happens this year. There's a lot of big things going on.

Speaker 2: 19:02

Yeah, and and and. With that, you know, yeah, you got a lot of things going on, I mean really exciting things going on.

Speaker 2: 19:11

Um, you know two absolutely great hunts coming up. Um, like you said, one that we were I think almost me, frank Dave, we were all at when you when you won that one your your South Africa trip. Um, which, if we yet again go back, I am I surprised that you won that. No, not at all. Um so really excited to to see what's in store for you with that and everything like that. I know we talked at the show and you talked about all the game that you were going to be able to hunt and everything like that.

Speaker 2: 19:45

So, it's cruel, it's truly amazing. And I remember um talking to Lee Rye from team Wackenstack and he was just telling me how you know the African hunts go and everything like that. And you know, when you shoot it, you know it's there's just so much meat that they, you go home they'll cook it up, but the rest, I think, goes to the tribe and village and everything like that, because you can't really like, you can't bring it back home. They're just, it's just not possible.

Speaker 2: 20:11

So you get to you, get to eat it right. It usually righted away for dinner.

Speaker 4: 20:15

Yeah, it's. It's actually a pretty good conservation model that they have over there and a lot of the meat that that you harvest you will eat. You know they will cook it for you there. But it also goes to the workers at the lodge. So you're helping. You're helping feed. You know families over there especially, and one of the things that I like to be a proponent of is the African conservation model. When you're shooting larger games, such as like elephant, it's exactly that. Where then that meat is going to local. You know local families. You're actually helping to. You know feed people. So I'm a big proponent of how they do things over there.

Speaker 4: 20:57

I'm really looking forward to it. John and I will both be going. That's coming up at the end of May and it's it's definitely you know I don't want to say it's the trip of a lifetime, because it's probably not the only time I'm going to go, so so, yeah, I'm looking forward to that. In August I'll be meeting up with Levi from Team Wackenstack. We're going to be we're going to be going on a hunt together up in Alaska, for you know Barenground and Caribou, so we got that coming up. We have New Jersey Bear. I'm going to be putting a lot of time into into that and then following it up with some deer hunting in New York. So it's a. It's going to be an eventful year for only bombs.

Speaker 2: 21:39

And then following up that next year will be in Maine hunting black bear before I get married.

Speaker 4: 21:48

We got the main black bear hunt in 20, in 2025. I'm looking to do an axis deer hunt in Texas in 2025. So it's a lot of hunting. Yeah, there's, there's.

Speaker 2: 21:59

There's a lot in in our future, those miles points are going to be only. Both miles points are going to be through the roof.

Speaker 4: 22:09

My American Express is going to be melted by the end of next year.

Speaker 2: 22:14

You know, something I definitely do want to touch on. It's the whole how the African hunts landscaped, and that's such a big component of why anti hunters hate trophy hunting, because they think they literally just kill the animal and just leave it and just take the trophy, where that's not the case at all and the meat is used. I mean, you got to remember we're talking about a country and a lot of countries out there. You look with Mike and where they're from, Guyana and everything like that. Like they eat everything. You know what they hunt, what they catch, everything is used. It's a way of life. It's not like, oh, let's just go kill this for cool, the big trophy, and that's it, and we're going to leave the animal there. Are there some bad apples out there in the world? Yes, of course, but for the most part, like man, the giraffes, the elephants, like you said, all those game animals. They're going to be used. They're going to be exactly.

Speaker 5: 23:14

You need to decide the value or it's not going to exist anymore. And it's like if you assign it value as a hunting and renewable resource, then it's not going to get poached and wiped off the landscape. So how it's done is, like you know, and more than just the meat, it's like the animal that you get to shoot has been like, selected, you know, based off of you know, science and biology and understanding the ecosystem. So you're harvesting specific animals, like you know, old herd bulls or old like males that you know might not even be able to reproduce or you know are reproducing at a much lower rate, but they're keeping younger males from reproducing and extending that species. So you know, by taking that out, that bull bull out, you might help the population. So, and the alternative?

Speaker 6: 23:57

is, it's just wiping them out you know kind of aimlessly.

Speaker 5: 24:01

You know so, by assigning the value to it as a hunting resource, you've kind of decentralized. You know the poaching and you know the kind of the black market trade that you know also can go in there. So you know it's about like kind of pricing it at a higher value than you know the less conservation friendly alternative.

Speaker 4: 24:19

No, no, you're 100% right on how that works Over there, when you're hunting the big, you know the big five, especially when it comes to like elephants, like you said, you're not hunting just the first bull that comes walking out. Oftentimes they already know, they work with, you know, the federal governments over there. They have biologists that actually you are hunting specific bulls that are no longer in the breeding population. These are bulls that are being ostracized by the herd. They're actually being moved out of the herd and they're taking, you know, the resources from that breeding population. So this animal, you know, taking an elephant, for example, is going to die on its own. So by by hauling the non-breeding population, you're helping sustain the breeding population and ensuring that there's a healthy ecosystem.

Speaker 4: 25:17

In addition to that, some of these bulls they just have, you know they have attitude problems. I guess Elephants are actually very destructive. So you know, oftentimes they'll have, you know, just like bears, where they call them problem bears, they have problem elephants where these things will come in and they will destroy everything in their path just because it's in their way. That's not healthy, for you know the local villages or the local ecosystem. So what they'll do is those bulls will also be selected for harvest and you'll be hunting a bull like that and it all also goes back to.

Speaker 4: 25:51

You know you're also helping the local economy, where a lot of people think that the price tags are very steep and they are it's. You know you're talking about close to six figures for an elephant hunt and you know any of the big five. It's very expensive. However, anti-poaching activities are not cheap. So when you're paying these steep prices for these hunts, not only are you helping the local you know the local villagers with the meat, you're stimulating the conservation efforts through basically direct cash injection. You're funding park rangers, surveillance technologies, training, communications. You're helping these guys stop poachers.

Speaker 5: 26:37

In some situations it's like those professional hunters that you would go with are or former poachers, that it's just become a more lucrative and consistent you know lifestyle. That it's just again it's like it comes down to value. You know it's like if you can, you know it's a lesser risk and you can still make money and feed your family than like the alternative. So you know it's you're creating an alternative avenue for somebody that you know might have just been poaching because they couldn't. There was no other option.

Speaker 5: 27:07

So you know it's just, yeah, it gets a bad rap, like the African thing, and you know there's a lot I'd like to do in the state first before, you know, eventually going over there. But it's like it gets a bad rap and it is like it is the only reason that, like some of those, like animals over there have been wiped out is because of you know, the Cecil the lion thing. You know is like if you know how many killings of the lion probably saved more lions than anybody that's ever don't like ever called themselves an animal right to activists has ever saved.

Speaker 4: 27:40

So that's the truth.

Speaker 4: 27:45

It's the hard truth, but nobody wants to. You know, people don't want to accept that. You know education, if you will. They don't want to engage in that conversation. All they do is they see the bad apples out there and they call them oh, these guys are out there poaching, or they're out there. Well, okay, there might be a couple bad apples, but you're talking about, you know, a percentage of a percentage. Like you know, it's such a minuscule number compared to everybody that's out there Doing it legally and helping what's going on, and I don't know. We could talk about this for a while. We really could.

Speaker 2: 28:24

Well, welcome Steve, welcome Peyton, Glad that you guys got to join us. Now we got seven in here, so we're going to let the real roundtable segment now start. I'm going to ask we're going to go over some topics, everything like that. Everyone's a different hunter, unique in their own style, especially this crew that we got here, so we're going to really be able to hit all avenues. But, you know, something I definitely want to get is you know, the first topic would be you know, when you're going into a new, brand new area, you know what is the first sign that you're really looking for before you drop a camera or set up for you know, a stand or a saddle hunt, like what is some of the your top three signs that you need to find before you're like all right, this is the area that I need to be in and this is where I want to drop a camera which one of you boys want to start?

Speaker 4: 29:13

first E-scouting. Get on, get on, you know, get on Moultrie Mobile, get on ONX, get on any of your mapping softwares. Before you even put boots on the ground, study that property. Start looking at the terrain features, because that's going to tell before you even go to the property. You know you could sit there and you could walk through. You know it depends on how big your property is Like.

Speaker 4: 29:36

In my example, I have 300 acres that I hunt, you know I could spend a week walking around in there. But if you sit there and you, you know, e-scout first, you can kind of narrow that 300 acres down to, you know, say, three or four five-acre areas that you may want to go check out, and it's going to. You know, being able to narrow that down is going to make your time in the woods more effective and more efficient. And then, personally, I think that that's probably the most important tool, and I'm a big proponent of boots on the ground, don't get me wrong. But I think getting you know, getting an idea of where to go first, will make you more efficient in putting your cameras out and actually being able to locate the areas where you're going to find these signs.

Speaker 3: 30:25

I'll tack on to that, oh God, Steve.

Speaker 7: 30:28

Oh hey, sorry guys For that. Chris, I think an awesome resource that I came into this year along with on X and the other like Spartan forages. I don't know if you guys are familiar with Boyd's maps. Boyd's mapscom has a plethora of resources from a, from historical maps, lidar, basically every kind of map resource all the way back to the 1800s of what they had then through to the current times. Multiple years of LiDAR. Being able to look at not just contours but historical depressions and how the landscape of the area you're looking to hunt in is, you know, is, positioned has been an invaluable resource for me this year. So if you guys haven't checked out Boyd's maps, it's free, it's completely free to just go on there and you can select the different layers or different maps throughout all the gosh over 100 years of data. A lot of information on there has been really helpful too.

Speaker 3: 31:34

I wrote it down. I mean that's pretty cool. Anytime you can find another mapping source, without a doubt. Yeah, I was just going to say if I had to just pick one thing that I'm looking for, just to kind of simplify the combo, I would just say water. You know, he, where I'm at on Long Island.

Speaker 3: 31:49

I'm not pulling a big elevation change like we joke about it, but if we're pulling 10 to 20 feet of elevation change one way or another, you know, a lot of times that's a lot. It's and don't get me wrong that could be the total difference of whether or not those deer are in sunlight or not, and there's something themselves. So, yeah, you want to check elevation, I would say water. For us it's going to be a lot of saltwater like tributaries that come off the bay, something like that, and you really get into somebody's just nasty like bog areas and I would say that's probably the one thing I'm looking for. After that would be probably food. You know, you keep all the layers on your map. You know if you've got a lot of Oaks in the area, if you've got a nice set of Oaks dropping down into a wet marshy area, that's probably as bad as it gets to start At least, then you just got to get on the ground, yeah.

Speaker 2: 32:40

Yeah no, I think for me.

Speaker 1: 32:42

Frank, I. So I think for me especially like up here. I look for a lot of like thickets and swamps to, because not not where a lot of people go. They tend to stay more to where it's open or maybe they can't get out until, you know, after work, so they'll hunt like the edges of the fields. So I usually tend to like like to go deeper in the woods and that's where usually worked out the best for me.

Speaker 2: 33:12

That's true. What about you, American Mike?

Speaker 6: 33:16

Personally speaking, as a human being, you're most comfortable when you're taking a shit right. You know you're home when you're sitting on that tree. So I like, following off of Dave, not only the food you got to find where they're shitting. If I'm finding a lot of shit in one general area, I will set up on that because I know that they're comfortable to go there. Granted dear, do walk and shit at the same time. I think that's one thing a lot of people don't look for when picking a spot, but the it doesn't lie, though it's either far and easy to tell if it's fresh.

Speaker 2: 34:00

as far as the site, especially when you're, when you're looking for a lot like, when you see a lot like constantly all over. That seems to me a place that they're spending a lot of time, so they are Beating close by, they're doing something like that. A lot of the beds that I found and betting areas I found this year was filled, I mean, with poop just all over the place. So it's like, alright, you know that they're spending a lot of quality time in here, so finding where they shit is, it's 100% it's one of the things I look for like. I agree with you. You know those beatdown trails that have poop on it and poop just everywhere, and you know you find a lot of information off of just just poop alone. You know it's. It's one of those things where it's definitely unique.

Speaker 3: 34:57

How about this? I'm gonna throw a question out there. This would be a good one for the Reaper. Why do you think a buck determines on which scrape to shit in or not? You notice that not every scrape they do that in.

Speaker 6: 35:13

I mean, that is so.

Speaker 2: 35:15

I have. I have noticed that too as well.

Speaker 3: 35:17

Is he always at the dominant buck in the area where he's really like you know what? Don't even think about it. Not only did I yeah, I pissed in it, I shitting it. I'm scraping up the ground like, if you guys really want to play, like, come see me, I'm not gonna be like I'm just I run a lot of scent ropes. I'm actually getting to the point where I'm getting better at getting good interactions with them pretty consistent throughout the season. One thing I just noticed as I was pulling cameras and checking a lot of my scrapes out of all the scrapes, only two of them had fresh feces in it and it looked like bug droppings and it just caught my attention. I'm like, wow, that's, out of all of them, only two. So figure, while we're on the topic, I throw that out there.

Speaker 2: 36:01

I think that's something he would. I think he would know, but I think, like, if it is an actual thing, which it definitely does to me, it would. It would make sense, because I've noticed that too as well. It's not not a lot, but maybe those are like also core areas like that is like the script that maybe he's hitting often, you know, and he really wants to get all like maybe all his scent as much as he can that pay. This is, this is like my core area. This is like one of my main scapes, scrapes that I'm going to hit you know every, you know, maybe every day. Maybe you have the day when it's when he needs to freshen it up, like that's one that he's pounding, you know. So maybe maybe that's a thing or well, maybe he just had a poop.

Speaker 4: 36:46

I was just.

Speaker 4: 36:46

I was just about to say that I think about, think about it like this when you got to go, you got to go, and when a buck is is is taking a leak in a scrape, what's he doing? He's scraping his. You know. He's scraping those torso glands together. He's, you know he's. He's. He's sitting there, he's rubbing his legs together. He's he's squeezing out as much piss as he can.

Speaker 4: 37:10

Think about all the you know, just the muscle contractions in the deer while he's doing that. If he's got a, if he's got a, you know, around in the chamber, it might just go off. I mean that that might be, that might be. You know a simple explanation, for it may not actually be. You know some kind of super territorial, you know, I don't know some super territorial like it, like you know method of marking a scrape. Maybe it's just while he's taking a leak. You know, ask yourself this how many times have you been, you know, have you been taken a leak and said, oh, maybe I shouldn't, you know, maybe I shouldn't trust this fart. Think about, like a deer, like maybe that's what he's doing. He's just squeezing so hard it's, you know, just happens.

Speaker 3: 37:56

Well, I apologize to all the listeners who are like where the hell, this guy.

Speaker 3: 38:01

I'll put it in my attention. I'll put it this way let's say, out of like 12 mock scrapes I think seven of them had sent ropes only two had feces in it In very good I would what I would call bedding areas and then the feces look like buck dropping. So that's, I was trying to just see. Like I said, it's I'm an actually curious person. Especially in the deal was I'm always trying to learn. I try to, you know, really soak in as much as I can. So I thought maybe there'd be something to that. But there's nothing wrong with a simple answer sometimes, and it could just be coincidence.

Speaker 2: 38:31

So I feel we hear otherwise In a, in a fun, in a like hey, maybe we're onto something and this is the next topic that's gonna, that's really going to catch and it's going to blow up. So maybe that is a thing that that people, but you know, regardless of whatever, whatever we don't know exactly all the time what animals do and what you're doing, as much as we want to know, so you, you really never know. It could easily be that is a thing like that, you know. Or it could just be simple as hey, he just had to go when he had to go, either. Or I don't think will, I don't think will ever really know, you know. But, um, if it is, that's a game changer. Now people are going to be looking for, for poop in the scrape and you know, maybe you might have that.

Speaker 2: 39:17

That that just right, he might just drop his own poop in a scrape or something like that, like you have no idea. So, um, yeah, no, that that was a hey, that was a fun, fun one. And knows the will have to do more scientific data research for that. So, all the guys here, that that's our, that's our job for next year, do you box poop in a scrape purposely?

Speaker 4: 39:46

I'm gonna go.

Speaker 2: 39:46

I'm gonna go get my PhD in biology and write a thesis paper on this Now question for all you are true and everyone here are true hunts, but you know, are you always aiming lower before you shoot or does it depend on what distance you're shooting at? And Mike, I kind of want to start with you on this one, because I think you said you do always aim lower, ever since I think you shot over that deer that one year.

Speaker 6: 40:20

So from a tree stand I do aim lower and I rarely hunt from a tree stand, but the two times I killed a deer from the tree when I was aiming the regular way I typically would, I've spine shot at both of those here. So that's telling me that I should aim lower from an elevated platform and if I'm going to ground blind, I'm going to put that pin right on target.

Speaker 2: 40:50

And it doesn't matter where you're at if you're farther out. Nothing like that.

Speaker 6: 40:54

No, I'm gonna you know. If it's at 32 yards, I'm going to put it 30 yard. Pin right where it's gotta go.

Speaker 5: 41:04

Frank, I always aim, I always aim bottom third.

Speaker 5: 41:09

You know kind of like you know, imagine, and you know maybe it'll get lower, like I'm personally not at a point, especially right now, maybe earlier in the season, where I would take a 50 yard shot, but if I have the 50 pin, but you know I probably, you know especially you know kind of where we hunt, like public land deer. You know obviously you know I wouldn't take the shot if that deer was looking at me. You know, if it was like oblivious, they had no idea I was there, you know I had perfect setup. I'd probably put it like right at the bottom of that deer I shot the buck I shot this year, dropped and I ended up spying, shooting and I thought I put it low in that situation too. So you know I try to put it bottom third. You know right in that you know kind of V, where that shoulder meets and that buck still dropped on private land and ended up spying, shooting it, and that was from the ground. I actually might have been a bit below him.

Speaker 2: 42:08

So I always try to aim a little bit low, yeah, but didn't you have to shoot? You got to shoot up an angle, right, you're muted.

Speaker 5: 42:18

Sorry. Yeah, I was below him slightly, like kind of negligible, probably, like you know, 10, 20 feet kind of lower in elevation. But yeah, I did shoot slightly uphill at him so it kind of compounded probably the drop. That was at 30 yards, like dead even.

Speaker 2: 42:39

Got you.

Speaker 1: 42:41

Frank, I always attend to. Depending on the distance, I'll always aim a little lower. But I noticed sometimes when I'm at like a 30 or 40 yard mark, I always, for some reason I always aim a little higher because in the past for me I've always hit there low and it caused me to lose a couple of them. So I've always aimed a little higher for me at like further distances.

Speaker 2: 43:12

That's interesting because that's like the opposite of what. Like you know what I mean but it's going against the theory.

Speaker 3: 43:19

I think you're just jumping the string almost then, exactly.

Speaker 2: 43:24

But, yet again, deer can be very unpredictable. So if they don't jump the string and you do put that, you know you're you're giving a haircut or you know you're making a non-fatal fatal shot. So I guess you're going with just you know smart, you're just going with your experience and everything like that. You know, especially, I imagine, that kind of deer that doesn't seem to be on high alert, you're going to put that pin a little little higher than you would if you're shooting a deer that was, you know, very cautious, on alert, you know, and stuff like that. So it makes sense to me, I mean, but it is, it's going against the grain, which. But I like, I like that answer because you know that's. That's a big part of why I like having this round table segment, because there's so many different answers and different, you know, and it's it's kind of like it's it's just kind of the opposite. What about you, dave?

Speaker 3: 44:13

I don't get cute with it, man. I put it right on a double lung, probably right above the elbow, below the shoulder. I just let it eat. I I just this season started extending my range as far as target shooting. So I'm at the point next season I was at the point this season that I would have attempted by 30 to 35 yard, you know, attempt on a deer, and I'll feel even better with that next season. I just seen that, whether it's the location that I hunt, whether it's just how it shakes out over the years, I would say most of my kill shots are 20 yards or less. So at that point, wait till they're not looking and just put on a nice big chunk of that animal and let it let it eat. Yeah, I have no problem in that. I don't. I don't tuck the shoulder too tight, I don't really try and tuck it in there above the elbow, below the shoulder. Come back a little bit.

Speaker 2: 45:09

Dave, you played safe. Yeah, that's, and I love that, that answer before I let Chris go. I, because I kind of do the same thing. It just depends, like, honestly, the closer I am in, the higher up I'm just ripping top of the double lung, which, just going right out and just ripping. You know what I mean. So to me it definitely does depend on on the angle.

Speaker 2: 45:32

But I like all my shots 20 yards and in, like that's my, I can shoot to 30, I can shoot to 40, but when I shoot at deer, if I have, you know, when I'm trying to set up and all my hunts where I really try to set up is just up close and personal. You know, that's, that's the the name of the game for me when it comes to bow hunting. So I don't really worry too much about about that as well, cause I usually just let me put it right in that double lung because you're being getting far with the double lung shot either. So you know, and I always think heart's great and I I listened to they're not going far either with the heart, but band to get your, your lungs knocked out of you. You're out of it all to me with the blood and everything Four cuts.

Speaker 3: 46:15

It's an. It's an entrance and an exit on the one lung and then an entrance and an exit on the second lung. I mean it's a very distinct pop sound that I think most hunters will hear eventually. It's just very distinct. I don't know how to describe it. But when you get a true double lung shot and they're that close, you you know chances are you're going to see that deer probably. Uh, you know you'll be able to watch it drop yeah.

Speaker 2: 46:40

What about you, Chris?

Speaker 4: 46:42

Uh, I'm kind of with Peyton on the on the bottom third I'm, I'm like right at that top line of the bottom third. Uh, I, you know I hunt out of a tree, so you know the downward angle I think about. But a lot of my shots, especially, you know, in recent years, have all been, you know, at about 40 yards. If I, if I met right at that line between the middle third and the bottom third, if I'm a little bit low, I got a heart shot. If, if that deer ducks down a little bit, I'm, I'm zipping the lungs. If I'm a little bit high, I'm zipping the lungs. So right on that line is is probably my sweet spot.

Speaker 2: 47:23

That makes sense too as well. I mean all all good answers, all all unique answers, um, you know, um, I know Dave has to have another question, because Dave had, like I think, six or seven questions the last time we we went. Do you? You don't have another one for us? Dave usually is the one that is always firing out questions.

Speaker 3: 47:44

No, no, I'm trying, I would all these guys on the line. I don't want to hog them, let everybody oh listen, we're all here, we're all friends.

Speaker 2: 47:51

I I, dave usually does have does have great questions, so it's all. It's always unique and interesting. But until you're ready to go, dave, you know what's the biggest recommendation for you know, when you're going out and packing out and you're going out into the woods, to be the silent, silent, like as silent as possible. What. What do you think is the is the best strategy to be to to make the least amount of noise, entering the white toe woods and going to your stand blind or or anything like that? Or do you guys think that there is possibly really you really can, and at some point you're just going to make a humanly noise, I guess, or unrealistic noise in the white toe woods?

Speaker 4: 48:35

Where are Sittga, Solomon boots and Hanat of Saddle?

Speaker 3: 48:41

Well, I'll counter with that man. There was nothing better for me this season than having pre-hung sets. This is my first year having pre-hung sets and walking in with my bow and a little tiny fanny pack. Essentially, you had a little little rain the night before and the leaves are quiet. Man, it's like that meme when it you know, when it's raining and you're like slipping inside of like MJ and the tree stand like that's. I mean you don't feel. Tell me it's not sure. The leaves are quiet, the ground is soft and you just walk it in. You don't even need a flashlight, you know where you're going, everything's pre-hung, you hook your bow up and you're done. I agree, I agree, I mean it's speed, quiet.

Speaker 2: 49:19

I am excited for my saddle, don't get me wrong, but I think I think winter, winter, bow kind of sets up for the best time to have pre-hung stuff sets, because, frank, you know, frankenpan, all of us we discussed this on the earlier episode but listen, it's winter time. It's like you're wearing pounds and pounds of gear Like you, you have all your thick layers on and everything like that. Like you feel fat. It's also past the holidays too, because you've been eating, you've been having dessert, you've been, you've been probably drinking a lot and everything like that. So like the hang and bang hunts for me are kind of over.

Speaker 2: 49:55

At that point it's like all right, I'm kind of ready for like the off season. We've all hunted hard, which we all know about. But so to me to to get up and less cover too, and that's the big thing, and the winter there's just there isn't much cover. So I think to get up in a preset stand or preset saddle you can do as well, or a ground blind is just. It's so much easier when you're just all right, let me just walk out there.

Speaker 2: 50:22

I don't really have to worry about metal, anything like that clanging. I'm going to sneak in. I don't have the leaves like I usually do to cover me, but at least I'm not setting up a brand new, anything brand new, where I'm making just a lot of noise already on very pressured deer and that's the key very pressured deer, very skittish deer, where you could blow a hunt setting up, you know, for a hunt, because something clangs or you're just making too much noise, mike, what do you think? And for you you're the, you're the ground, blind hunter. So I really do like, does it change for you at all throughout the season when you're going into your spots from early season to winter bow?

Speaker 6: 51:07

For early season, I'm more you know into the staying quiet, staying sent free. You know, get in there super early and as the season progresses, you know I'll hit that snooze and be like I'll go in for a heat fight instead. Yeah, um, but for staying quiet, I've never really tried to say, okay, we need to stay quiet, unless I have, like a cell cam pic, just hit my phone as I'm walking in. Other than that, I just try to get in as fast as possible. Just get in, get set and let the woods quiet down. And you know, that's, that's my mentality when it goes to setting up for a hunt.

Speaker 2: 51:52

And perfectly said too, because, listen, as the season goes on, especially, like I said, everything always changes after Thanksgiving it's like, oh, the rut's over, like now I really I don't, I stopped taking those sent free showers. I start using, usually my my. You know, I just start to become lazy, you know, and like I'm tired, I'm burnt out. You know, like that whole, okay, I'm going to get here early, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that, I'm going to hang in, hang at, hunt all over the place, like that's kind of over for me at that point. Now it's like, do I want to go? No, no, no, man, I'll just go in the evening. It's like I'm sitting there, I was like, do I really want to go? It's like I'll get out there for like an hour and a half, two hours, like why not? And I show up late as hell. I get in and deer are moving, maybe like 30 minutes later, like. So it's definitely an interesting time. But you know, I always like you know this, mike has made ground blind hunting in a listen.

Speaker 2: 52:46

I'm not a fan of hunting on the ground, but Mike has done a such a excellent job at it with just the success of that, like I have a ground blind for Bianca, I do plan on trying to kill at least a deer out of a ground blind, like I've never done it. I want to also do a spot and stalk, like adding some things in where I'm not always going up into a tree. Now, 90% of the time am I still going to hunt out of it, or 95% of the time am I still going to hunt out of a tree? Yes, but I would still like to incorporate a little more of the ground action, a little bit like Peyton. I mean, he got stalked by by a couple of bears this year and, listen to me, that drives my adrenaline. Every time I encounter a bear close up, face to face, like it is one of the coolest, I'm like, oh my God, like this is so cool, my heart rate is going.

Speaker 5: 53:38

It's people listening to us who are?

Speaker 2: 53:40

not used to bears. I'm probably like what the fuck is wrong with this guy. This guy's a nut, but like man, like there's no better feeling, or, or getting up close to a deer on the ground, like I will say that is such a cool and different experience what keeps hunting Definitely fun. So it is. It is on the books, but, mike, you do a great job at it Cause, listen, you killed deer out, just out Anyone that I probably know, and then besides, maybe James, and then you know in a grant, doing it consistently on the ground. I give you tons of credit cause, man, I don't know how you do it.

Speaker 3: 54:21

Mike he's obviously doing his homework, like you're brushing them in. You're very strategic, yeah, you're not just setting up a ground block. Well, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 6: 54:29

I've come a long way, because when I first started hunting, I put a ground line in the middle of the field, not knowing, what to do.

Speaker 6: 54:36

But, mike, back to your conversation about using your regular soap. You recall in the Snapchat chat when I was like we were talking about different deodorants because some of these sent free deodorants. They're very chalky and you know as a big guy that chub rub it gets to you, especially, you know, sitting in the woods or you're carrying stuff in. It's very uncomfortable and I find a lot of comfort through old spice and there was that one time I sent the Snapchat after killing a deer. I'm like and guess what? I wore old spice, like I got it done with old spice. So ever since I'm always a tester and believer. If I kill a deer wearing old spice, I'm a keep wearing old spice. That sent free dead down wind deodorant stuff.

Speaker 2: 55:24

I stopped using that. I stopped. I used to be the same as like, I used to always wear it. And then, first of all, it's smell horrible and Bianca hates when I get. She's like you always smell bad during the season, because everything's sent free and it doesn't last nearly as long.

Speaker 3: 55:43

It's inside his stuff, buddy I have that as well.

Speaker 1: 55:46

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 55:48

It's amazing, it works, it works really well.

Speaker 3: 55:50

Bianca literally just sent me a text message saying LMFAO, it's good, it's not like your hands and everything Real dry skin. It it listen, I will tell you it definitely helps.

Speaker 2: 56:02

I've been using it. It definitely helps. I've been on the podcast as well. We'll be getting a lot of questions with him as well, but it definitely it does help. But it's man, I think, because we're in New Jersey I do, and we talked about this last time. We did the table segment too. But the scent it's not my biggest concern. It really is not being sent free, is not? We're not hunting the Midwest, we're not hunting Canada, we're not in Alaska, we're not in Maine. We're here hunting deer that are used to human scent. You know what I mean. It's population density state in the country.

Speaker 3: 56:36

Exactly so driving Subaru's on the high controls I'm not worried about. Yeah, exactly so I think one thing like yeah why the hell not?

Speaker 2: 56:45

Am I going to use old space deodorant, cause that's exactly what I used to as well. Is everything else sent free Just because it's in my mindset of this is what I have to do? But do I really have to do it? Probably not, because you know what. I think you could get. As long as your winds right, you can really get it done anyway. I mean, people smoke in the damn freaking the trees and everything like that, so I think you can get it done anyway. You might kill them. I think what your last muzzle loader shot? You're eating like a full meal, weren't you?

Speaker 6: 57:16

Well, I had curry and rice and one of those heated up lunch boxes that you put on the way up there. I had it heating up, I took it in my bag, I'm sitting in the top of the tree and I'm just eating duck curry and rice. Right, and that was the. I don't know if it was because I was in the woods, but that was the best duck curry I ever had in my life.

Speaker 3: 57:38

Oh, I think you're setting definitely had it out of doubt. I want to talk about something about the ground blinds and so obviously most of us at this point we're all hunting at elevation, whatever that may be tree stand, ladder, stand, climber saddle. Now you get guys like you got Mike, on the ground in a brushed in ground blind, probably playing to prevail and wins. I would almost say that like are you. Are you get any deer really looking directly at you on the ground, mike, or do you see them looking up at a higher elevation, almost like above you Cause? How many times you guys see deer? You just get set up and all of a sudden here comes that herd of deer and the first thing that matured dough does is just start scanning the tree tops. And it's like man, you don't even. You're 200 yards away. I know you don't smoke and you're already looking at tree tops. Like this is going to be a long afternoon.

Speaker 6: 58:27

Yeah, so in the blind, I don't really get them picking me out of the blind unless they hear movement. They'll look where they're daring movement If I, you know, just scooch at the edge of my seat to adjust myself and they hear that they're going to look in the blind. But I feel like they can't see me because the blind setup that I killed majority of my deer out of this year was pretty cool. I set it up right over a overhanging branch and the sun sets directly behind me. So me personally, walking up to the blind, I can't see in the blind. So if I can't see in the blind, there's no way in hell the deer could see in the blind. Yeah, it's all about that light control.

Speaker 6: 59:10

Yeah.

Speaker 5: 59:10

So blind game, it's like almost wearing all black clothing might do better than the camera, and that's exactly what I do.

Speaker 4: 59:18

I'll drop a little bit of a sharp shooter sniper knowledge on you guys. There's, the four S's are really the big thing you got to worry about Shape, shine, shadow and silhouette. So if you're coming in and you and you're silhouetted against the sun once you get in, that blind, that blind is silhouetted against the sun. So when they're looking at, they're looking, they might see the blind, but they're going to be blinded by that sun. So that's a perfect setup.

Speaker 3: 59:44

I was just going to say. When I'm something in the afternoon, I put that sun behind me. That way you use that setting sun to your advantage. Blinded deer, don't blind yourself. Bikes first in the morning. Have that rising sun behind you, be in the shadow, blind them. Now you got to worry about that.

Speaker 4: 1:00:01

That's another thing you'll see this year. Dave, now that you're hunting out of a saddle and Michael attests to this as well when you can set the sun behind you and you can actually hide behind that tree a little bit, and then you're kind of just poking out, leaning over to take the shot, that silhouette is reduced to almost nothing.

Speaker 6: 1:00:19

Oh sure, when, being in a saddle, are you like aware of your shadow on the ground?

Speaker 4: 1:00:27

Oh yeah, I've actually taken pictures Like I wanted. One of the best pictures I have is actually of me in a climbing stand and it's my shadow on the ground.

Speaker 6: 1:00:35

Right, I don't know. I don't know Because tree is cool in the early season, just because being in a blind in the heat fucking sucks that is hot as hell in there.

Speaker 5: 1:00:48

There's no wind passing through.

Speaker 6: 1:00:50

So typically in the early season I'd prefer to be in a ladder stand and I have better coverage, but other than that, the ground blinds where it's at.

Speaker 3: 1:01:00

Well, that's the thing with the late season man. I've caught myself in some of the most bizarre setups. Yeah, obviously, with the climber. Sometimes it's like five, six feet off the ground because I'm in a cedar tree and that's the only cover I got around me. You know, the oak's a bear, the paw. I got nothing in the palm trees, so it's like Well again.

Speaker 4: 1:01:17

That's where you're going to find hunting out of a saddle. Now, Dave, being able to set your saddle up to where you now can place that tree between you and your target and even if the deer are moving in behind you, if you can move around that tree. There's ways of, now you know, reducing your shape in that tree where you can. Then you can move around, reduce your shape, reduce your shadow and actually kind of put something between you and that deer so they're not really seeing you move the way that they would if you were on the on the front of a tree, out of like a hang on or a climbing stand.

Speaker 3: 1:01:55

Right. I just hate that feeling where just you know you just stick it out because there's nothing in the canopy. You got no branches around surrounding you, like I, I like being in golf, like that early season man, like that's so critical If you're doing a pre-hung set and I actually got, I kind of nailed it this season. My pre-hung set was perfect because as I was sitting I had like a canopy it just so happened of the branches right here of Oakleaves. So pretty much the whole time I was sitting I was just looking right over the branches and I could even shoot sitting down. It would have been a little tough but I had good cover. And then once I stood up and I got folded up to see and got tight to the tree, that was my shooting window, now my main shooting window.

Speaker 4: 1:02:36

So I was just like to that point, dave, the cover in front of you, even hunting out of a climbing stand or a ladder stand or, you know, a hang on stand, the cover in front of you is not necessarily as important as the cover behind you. If you're wearing camo, you need something to blend into. So if you have, you know, foliage behind you, even if you're moving just to, you know, throw on your bow a little bit, there's something that you blend against, right, true?

Speaker 2: 1:03:06

Very true.

Speaker 3: 1:03:06

It was. I had the same thing. It was the weirdest setup because it's almost like I had I don't even know how to describe it. Basically, completely around my pine tree was like a perfect setup of Oaks where I was just engulfed. So it wasn't that high, it was only like 12 feet up. But I stopped there on purpose because that's where the cover was. Yeah, if I went lower it was too low. But if I went like a full four stick high, like 16 feet again, I would have been wired out in the open. So at 12 feet roughly I was perfect. So that's where it just tough in the late season I feel like really trying to find a spot, like sometimes I just sat on the ground, which I don't really like doing. You know, now you kind of just chilling, yeah.

Speaker 6: 1:03:47

I had a buddy, his name's Paul, known as Bucks and Boars, on Instagram. Yeah, he told me when I was sitting up in that ladder stand and he was saying that a good thing to do is to get a piece of burlap and burlap in that stand because mine was bare open. And he's telling me that you know you're unconscious about it, especially me personally, coming from a ground blind. The deer can't see me move my legs. So when you're moving your leg to adjust yourself for that shot, you're going to do that in a tree stand and not know that the deer is looking at your legs moving. So I've been picked out of my ladder stand because I'm moving my leg and I have that bad behavior of I'm constantly shaking my leg. So what he recommended was to get that burlap and burlap in that stand. And he said the wind pushing that burlap throughout all year. The deer get used to the movement up in the tree, so when you are moving, it's not going to really they're not going to pin you down that easily.

Speaker 5: 1:04:48

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:04:48

I mean there are guys like put in silhouettes like cut out silhouettes in the tree stand all year round. I mean that seems a little extreme, but it's kind of your training the deer in that area, just like you're saying, like they're used to seeing the stand something moving. Without a doubt it's a good little trick.

Speaker 2: 1:05:04

After this episode, we're going to we're going to be scouting and people are going to start putting silhouettes in their in their stands.

Speaker 3: 1:05:11

I don't do it, but I've heard of guys doing it. I mean, I guess there's something to it.

Speaker 2: 1:05:16

I imagine I, I definitely, because yet again there's. So they're already used to say you leave a stand there. Or, like like Mike said, like earlier, he used to set up the, the brine, right in the middle of the field. Well, in the beginning, deer are going to be, of course, very skittish to that, but I guarantee you, if you just leave it there and leave it there, and leave it there, it's going to, it's going to be a natural thing that they just get accustomed to. So through time, yes, you're, it makes complete sense. If we just I could take out one of Bianca's freaking dolls that she used she had to use for doing our hair and everything like that, I might just go set that thing up out there and just leave it in a couple of my spots, and just you know when I go up to hunt I'm just going to grab it, throw it out the stand and get right in and be good for the for the year, but it definitely it makes sense.

Speaker 2: 1:06:09

I feel like that's. That's some serious dedication. I think if I man, if I saw that on public, I might be a little scared, that would that would, that would creep me out. If I, if I saw that in public, that definitely would.

Speaker 6: 1:06:25

Not just that you put a silhouette in your stand and you're walking towards your stand or in those gray light hours, and you forget that you put a silhouette in there. Oh, forget about it.

Speaker 2: 1:06:37

Oh, you blow the hunt before you was starting. What are you doing to?

Speaker 1: 1:06:40

get the fuck out of my stand, oh shit.

Speaker 2: 1:06:47

That listen. That would. That would be. That would that would make for a pretty funny video. That would actually for a great story, you know so I think you know. Something that really is great to see is, I think, how much everyone has fallen in love with Black Bear Hunting, and you know Mike has been a been saying this for years now. You know how much and like listen, ever, ever since I love it and I'm in love with it. I think, dave, you're the only one that didn't get to Black Bear Hunt this year, but hopefully next year we get you out and you fall in love?

Speaker 4: 1:07:22

Not hopefully definitely.

Speaker 2: 1:07:24

Definitely get you out. I think that's happening.

Speaker 3: 1:07:26

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:07:29

So it is something that you know, I definitely do want to talk about. I just actually finished editing Peyton's bear video, which got me fired up all over again. I'm going to send you things I'm going to send it to you, peyton, or send it to the guys. Like I changed the intro and everything like that came out really great. But man, first of all, the meat itself phenomenal.

Speaker 6: 1:07:52

Delicious, my favorite. I remember my favorite over anything, anything you could buy. Yes, bear meat is top of like. I share a lot of deer with everyone when people ask me for bear meat, sorry, I don't have and I killed to this year. Nope, I don't have to share. I'll give you a piece where I cook it, but I'm not giving you you to go fuck it up. Now you come back and I'll Funny story.

Speaker 2: 1:08:21

Literally, I told Mike for for my birthday. It's like oh, like, I think I'm going to make some venison and bring it and I think I'm going to make some bear. He goes and no, you saved the bear just for you and your family. You don't bring that for strangers. He goes, you saved that for you and your family and you have the bear at a home, like if people want to come over.

Speaker 2: 1:08:39

Yeah, they can have it but, do not bring it to to that because and it is like I gave it to Bobby Bobby loved it, like painting. You know he got, of course, painting got his bear this year. He loves it. You know it's getting more and more popular Just how good the meat is and just how much of a Exciting adrenaline Listen, it's a different type of adrenaline than with a deer, because this is an animal that could seriously Do damage to you and kill you. And tracking it, I mean I've never and I think I said this in that episode that me, mike and and Peyton did I don't think I've ever been nervous tracking an animal once in my life. But there was some anxiety to tracking this thing because we were not 100% sure You're, you're hoping it's dead but you don't fully know and, like we said, they don't bleed like deer, they definitely don't.

Speaker 3: 1:09:34

They do not bleed like deer, so it's like, oh, you're only.

Speaker 2: 1:09:38

So it throws you off and it's like Crawling through that hedgerow. Wait till you got yeah.

Speaker 5: 1:09:46

Yeah it's like this hedgerow.

Speaker 6: 1:09:47

It is. Is that what you were hacking through to get into?

Speaker 5: 1:09:51

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:09:53

I actually crawled the other side of that.

Speaker 5: 1:09:56

Oh yeah, so I crawled on the other side of that too.

Speaker 5: 1:09:59

It was like I don't know maybe 10 yards wide and he had gone in the hedgerow and then diagonal like 30 yards down, yeah. So we had like we couldn't see him until I actually got inside of it and crawled probably 20 yards and I can see this like shadow and got closer and I was with Bobby and I was like I think that's, I think that's him, I think that's him. And finally I was like all right, we, all the guys like parted the had run there like holy shit, he's right here, like on the inside. Then we had to cut through like the briars and and the honeysuckle and everything to get him out.

Speaker 5: 1:10:35

But yeah, and I mean, if you ran into it full speed, it would just bounce you back out of it.

Speaker 2: 1:10:42

And we still. It's something that throws my mind off to this day. Like there was no entrance of him going in there. Like we didn't. I don't even think there was blood or anything like that. Like we just assume because that's where the trail was going, but there's some broken stick and like pin drop. It's crazy how these animals can get into. So it was double long. You don't even realize an exit hole, mm, hmm, center of center.

Speaker 5: 1:11:06

That's a thing I said in the video Center of center the arrow pass through, but it's, they don't bleed. You know we were following literal pin drops, yeah, to get to the thing, and you know I'd the crawl through this and it was like a 300 pound bear and you can. You know you Wasn't for the occasional pin drive, you would hardly be able to tell that he went in there at all. It's like you know their ability to slip through that that a full clip is pretty ridiculous.

Speaker 3: 1:11:32

And I'll be honest, just being in the bare woods or being, you know, besides the little bit of time I spend up with my property Upstate, you know, yeah, we have coy dogs and you know some coyotes run around. But normally that's what a shotgun. I mean the turkey hunt. Or I got my rifle for deer hunting. So to go into the woods in dark knowing there's predators around, I'll admit it, that's going to be a whole new world, like, yeah, that's a different vibe. Walking into the woods that morning.

Speaker 7: 1:11:59

It's going to be fun. Well, it's going to be fun.

Speaker 4: 1:12:02

I'll tell you what, davey, we you know, if we push on a good spot and you walk in there like that, the way you walk in there like that. The one morning I was walking into the stand, that 500 pounder was right by my stand and I'm on the trail looking at trail camp picks of this, of this 500 plus pound bear, yeah, like 60, you know, 60 yards away in a pitch dark that's like that.

Speaker 4: 1:12:25

As I was walking, you could hear and, and you wouldn't think, like as big as they are, they move very, very quietly. I could hear. I could hear some leaves rustling as I was walking, kept walking up and you got lights. I mean, I had my head lamp on, you know super bright headlamp. I got my light in my hand and walking up, knowing like hey, this thing, I hope this thing's walking away from me.

Speaker 1: 1:12:49

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:12:49

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:12:50

Yeah, Not happening to me this past year too, that that I think it was like 400 pounds. He was literally like five yards behind me. Dave, If I'm here, if I didn't hear a stick break and I was on the ground, I would have never knew he was behind me.

Speaker 5: 1:13:05

Right.

Speaker 1: 1:13:06

I turned around and he was so close that you could literally hear him breathing Like. Are you already told that? You know that?

Speaker 3: 1:13:13

Harry Bear Sprite Like do you go up New Jersey? Yes, I did.

Speaker 2: 1:13:17

Yeah we can, we can carry.

Speaker 5: 1:13:19

We're not the boast to yeah. No, technically no. If you try to order on Amazon, you won't Amazon like won't ship it to your house because I didn't know that it's being challenged. Right now there's like some court, there's something to do. It's in the courts right now. But yeah, technically it is illegal. But if you go to REI, if you go to any outdoor store in the state of New Jersey, though, they sell it yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:13:47

So you're basically not telling me.

Speaker 2: 1:13:49

State of New Jersey, we cannot carry a handgun. The highest population density in the union.

Speaker 5: 1:13:55

you're not allowed to carry Bear Sprite. You have to carry anything You're not allowed to carry anything Three ounces. You can carry pepper spray, but it has to be like the size that, like you'll put, like you know, like a little key chain on their key chain.

Speaker 2: 1:14:07

Yeah, and that's really unique because, like, they do sell it at stores. So, like Dave, I had no idea, like I just thought it was like. Oh, like you know, I've heard people that do it, they sell it so like, but it's kind of the same thing. So, technically, in the state of New Jersey you can buy holotips but you cannot have a holotips which makes a lot of laws, which makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Speaker 2: 1:14:32

So you, can buy it and they sell it in the store in New Jersey. You just can't have it and I'm like so then I think you can own holo points and Jersey, but you can't take them to the range, in fact, if you can, own it and you can't do it.

Speaker 7: 1:14:50

So, in fact, if you have concealed carry in Jersey, now that you, now that we can have concealed carry in Jersey again, and you guys in New York, there's a certain round they'll tell you to use and it has a polymer fill, still hollow point, and it will expand. But it's, it's this critical duty or any critical defense, sorry, by Hornaday they make it and it has to have that polymer and to technically be legal, well, I, and I'll give you another.

Speaker 4: 1:15:15

So just melt the cry on another tip.

Speaker 4: 1:15:18

Well, well, that's it, dave, this, this is coming from, because the state of New Jersey is, you know, in its own world. They don't, they don't even want law enforcement officers from other states carrying hollow points in New Jersey. They really don't even want law enforcement officers from other states carrying guns in their state. However, you know, and for legal purposes, this is for educational purposes only. It's only a theory. This is not something that anybody should do At any time ever. But if you take your hollow points and you fill them with wax, it's not a hollow point anymore by definition of New Jersey law. Again, legal statement for educational and theory purposes only nobody actually try this.

Speaker 4: 1:16:01

Yes, so I. While we're on the topic, I heard this guy told me in which topic we are over where we're just in it.

Speaker 2: 1:16:06

We're in a whatever topic. Well, I'm not sure we're on the watch list topic All our houses are going to get raided later.

Speaker 2: 1:16:19

So a guy told me because he had just gotten his carrying license in New Jersey. He said, technically, what New Jersey did is they reinstated an old this is, this is an old thing that they brought back. And technically you are. It's not a case of a new Jersey, it's actually a carry permit. They are just saying it's a concealed, so people don't open carry. But technically, by law, supposedly, what this guy said is you can open carry actually, but what's going to happen is You're going to get sworn by police officers and potentially shot. So he said, just, you know, concealed carry it, they, they something like they screwed up or something like that. When they reinstated the, the carry permit, they never changed whatever law. It was so long ago and it actually is a carry permit and not a concealed carry permit. And Steve, I don't know if you know anything about that, that's how that originally was worded and that was a loophole and I think that was originally instated that way because so that police could carry.

Speaker 7: 1:17:22

It was like a strange by law but they had a loophole and that was instated that way because so that police could carry it was like a strange by law but they have since amended that. Okay, so they do. Okay, you can open carry in the state. But it was that way if, until they amended that, you could technically open carry in Jersey with a concealed carry permit Gotcha, but there are so many. I just went through this for the second time.

Speaker 7: 1:17:51

Second round of training and qualifying for my concealed carry and they make it so difficult that you almost I have several people that have gone through the second, the second version now of the second class, and they're like, I don't even know if I want to carry, Like, is it worth it? You know?

Speaker 2: 1:18:09

so real quick because I plan on going through it this summer. What is the process for anyone that's looking to get into our maybe not getting to it Just how horrible it sounds, you know. So what's the process like?

Speaker 7: 1:18:22

So, first and foremost, obviously you have to have your FID card here in Jersey, which is a firearm purchase ID for ammunition and guns. But then on top of that, if you want to go through the concealed carry process you they've changed, so they've changed so many things so many times Now you had to get a separate fingerprint during the first go around, but now your original FID fingerprint is good enough, so you don't have to spend the $57 and go to an identical in order to get that done. But you do still have to go through the application process. You do have to. A lot of people were just going to ranges that would qualify them and it was kind of like a Q, basically like an FBI Q type qualification different distances and round count and all that. They've changed it since and it's highly recommended that you take a class that also goes over use of force and not just like oh hey, here's the 20 page use of force like. Read it on your own time.

Speaker 7: 1:19:25

The instructor that I went through Ironsight Academy literally went through paragraph by paragraph and explained what all of it meant. Because it's so important? Because, even though we have the right to carry, there are a lot of prosecutors looking to main make a name for themselves in Jersey is the nicest way that I can put it and that other people have put it as well. So there's that process. You go through you have to get your references, you have to have your background and check done. You go and take the class, you qualify. You have to qualify within 80% within a Q size target Every qualifiers a little different by a certified instructor probably an RA instructor would be the easiest and then you put all your paperwork in to either your local municipality or, if you are patrolled by NJSP, put it in at the barracks. And then you can go through and wait for weeks to four months to get your, get your concealed carry.

Speaker 2: 1:20:26

So yeah, kind of seems like like that process, like it's crazy.

Speaker 7: 1:20:30

It's also. $200 every two years is only good for two years.

Speaker 2: 1:20:38

Do you have to retake everything? Or, just like you just pay the $200, you have to retake everything.

Speaker 7: 1:20:44

So you have to re qualify again. Retake, yeah, I know, and it's $200. Well, all the fees just went up. So used to be able to. Your FID card was $2, now it's $50. Your permits used to be, or, no, sorry, it's $5. Your permits used to be $2 a piece for a pistol permit. Now they're $50 piece. You know, concealed carry used to be $50 for a permit, now it's 200. It's it's all. It's all about revenue.

Speaker 3: 1:21:09

You know I'll be back off for that and say elections are important.

Speaker 3: 1:21:14

They're important and, without going too deep down a rabbit hole with that Because of all the reasons you just talked about, you know what is this a? Is this a right? Is this a law? Is this something that our states allow us to do? Maybe we all have a different definition of that, but, just like you said, it's turning into a business for the people who happen to be on the other side of the aisle and the law the way a lot of us think. So. Yeah, sports are right. I mean, if anybody's listening to you're not a member, look into it. I mean, I'm a member. I highly believe in them. And the sport, your elections, local and government it's, it's very, very important.

Speaker 7: 1:21:57

It goes back to constitutional, constitutional wise, to founding fathers. That was a deal like. Whenever you have to pay to exercise a right, it's not a right anymore, you know. And these fees, you know these fees are exorbitant, you know. And it not to get on too deep of a rabbit hole either. But you know there's a lot of other groups and people that are there, they're keying in on this and certain topics are coming up and you're marginalizing people now and that maybe might not be able to afford. You know, to pay for a right, you know so. And there's other things that come to mind when you think about those kind of things. And it's not any different, you know so.

Speaker 2: 1:22:38

I agree it's. It's crazy because I can literally the minute I cross and I the main border I can conceal carry. You know, when you go to certain states, the minute you cross that border, you're allowed to conceal carry as long as you have a valid state of a license to the state of United States. You know, as long as you're in the country of the United States, as long as you have that Like, you can conceal carry. So it's just crazy how it changes from. You know, even like from New Jersey, new York, I don't know Connecticut by imagine Connecticut is probably a lot like us.

Speaker 7: 1:23:13

I did restrict as well. Yeah, there are the new one states.

Speaker 2: 1:23:17

Yeah, and then once you get to to Maine, it's like all right, like well, you can conceal, you can conceal, carry as long as and what people. What is P A, mike? Do you know P A? You just, do you need to buy a permit or do you need to be from P A? Do you know that question?

Speaker 6: 1:23:35

I honestly, I can't give you the correct.

Speaker 4: 1:23:38

I don't don't quote me on this. I believe P A for for pistol ownership. I don't think you need a permit to own one or purchase one and I believe P A is also open carry you. If you want to conceal carry, you need a concealed carry permit, but I believe P A Is is an open carry state. And the hoops are hard.

Speaker 7: 1:23:59

Yeah, the hoops are not hard over in P A, you literally go.

Speaker 2: 1:24:03

Yeah, you're gonna look at my body, it's getting dollars and and you get your permit.

Speaker 7: 1:24:09

That's a dichotomy. Dichotomy between New Jersey and the rest of the country is Louisiana might be the 28th state to become a constitutional carry state, where you don't need a permit at all, and New Jersey is one of the only states that has zero reciprocity with any other state in the country.

Speaker 4: 1:24:29

Yeah, New York is like. New York does not recognize anybody else's permit Right.

Speaker 1: 1:24:35

No but if you but if you're like say you're in.

Speaker 7: 1:24:38

Jersey. You want to go over and you want to get a concealed carry in P A Because you already have. If you have a concealed carry in Jersey, you can go right over to P A. You can go to any municipality Well, they changed some things during COVID, but you can go to municipality. You can get it almost same day, yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:24:57

I would feel like training If there was more stinging training qualifications and then like, if you got to think about it, just to renew your driver's license, you got to get an eye test. You got to do this, you got to do that. If we're talking about pistol ownership and then carrying ownership, I don't think anybody would really argue. You know any training requirements, even if it was twice a year, well, nobody would I mean, and not to debate you on this, Dave, but no but renew it.

Speaker 4: 1:25:22

renewing your driver's license isn't a guaranteed right. You know, once you start putting restrictions on your constitutional rights, you start saying, ok, we'll let you do this, but OK, then, you know, just as Steve was saying, it's no longer as a right. You know, even if it's oh well, we have mandatory training and then, oh, you can carry your pistol, but you have to go take the RA pistol class every five years, Like in New York. That's how they want you to do it Now. You have to go re-qualify every five years and take the class, and it's OK. At what point do we do we draw the line on? You know, restricting your rights.

Speaker 7: 1:25:57

And that's interesting too. Chris, you bring that up because I find myself in a somewhat hypocritical spot because, as firmly rooted in constitutional rights as I feel I am, in more populous states like New Jersey, where there's never been widespread concealed carry for citizens, I go back and forth. I have a very hard time with it because, as much as I think everyone has the right, does Not what I think everyone has the right to carry. You know Bruin made that. You know they sealed the. Bruin sealed the deal on that right for everybody in the country out which can protect themselves outside the home.

Speaker 7: 1:26:39

But man, in a really popular state like New Jersey, I have it's hard. I go back and forth. I'm okay with People having to have training. You know they didn't grow up with it. Does that sound hypocritical? I think I know it does. It sounds super hypocritical to say that Because it's like, well, I know, but then again I'm okay going through it. I went through it. You know what I mean. So I don't know, I don't know how to, I Don't know how to. You know, feel about that at the end of the day.

Speaker 3: 1:27:06

But I Four-hour episode, just I listen.

Speaker 4: 1:27:12

I'm I'm of the camp that I'm not gonna be happy until I can mount a minigun on my Tacoma.

Speaker 5: 1:27:18

Just so everybody knows where I stand on this issue.

Speaker 4: 1:27:20

You're like, if I, until I'm able to do that, then then I feel like I'm being infringed upon.

Speaker 7: 1:27:27

Yeah, yeah, thanks a recreational vehicles right.

Speaker 4: 1:27:30

Yeah, I mean technically yes.

Speaker 3: 1:27:34

You know I would love a follow-up episode. Really died. You know this is a great that.

Speaker 2: 1:27:40

We, we could, we could do that, definitely for sure. But the last thing I'll say on that like, at the point where I'm at now, I Want it to be available, I want to be able to do it without jumping through all. But do I believe it? Do I think everyone, people, should be trained, because at the end of the day, I see it working with the kids in inner city, so I know how, like your response, and just kids in general, are irresponsible. So I don't want to just dumb it down to one group, how just kids are irresponsible. Well, this new generation coming up are extremely irresponsible and they go off of what they see on movies, tv shows, everything like that. And you know, so I do believe on people getting trained, because there's some morons out there.

Speaker 2: 1:28:24

Listen, I grew up. Listen, I've been shooting guns since I was, you know, and Bianca, bianca and I and her family, we talk about this a lot because they they didn't grow up like, like the way I did, they didn't grow up with guns and grow honey, they didn't grow up with any of this. And you know, I'm a friend, but listen, I've had access to the gun safe since I was basically like 12 or 13 years old, my grandpa always taught he's like, hey, you've been trained how to use these guns. If someone ever breaks into the house when you're home alone, this is where the key is you know how what to do. But I never went into the safe and started playing with the guns and loading up the guns and doing stupid shit, because I was trained properly and also I knew if I got caught the goddamn ass whooping I was going to get. Oh yeah, would have been like. So like I Knew better or not. Because I was right, I was trained, I was taught.

Speaker 2: 1:29:19

To have respect for this weapon, like everything's a weapon with bows, with everything is a what the knife that I carry it's. It's a weapon at the end of the day. So this is.

Speaker 4: 1:29:29

Mike, I'll give you a counterpoint to what what you're saying. I'll circle back to what we were talking about with the African hunting that, yeah, there are some bad apples out there, and it's a percentage of a percentage. However, it's it's on the individual To do the right thing. It's it's on you to understand that. Exercising, you're right, yes, it does come with some responsibilities. You are, you know, you once. You know, if you pull it out and you want to, you want to let a round off, you can't take it back.

Speaker 4: 1:29:59

So Is it to the point where, yes, you know, the individual should take it upon themselves to understand how to operate, you know their weapon and how to do so safely and effectively, and in what situations it? You know it could possibly be, you know, acceptable, if you will, to to do so. But Is this something that you know, the, the government should be mandating, or Is this something that should, that we, you know, within this community, as An individual within this community, should take upon ourselves To be better at you know, at our craft, if you will yeah.

Speaker 7: 1:30:41

Yeah, I mean, I totally agree with that. I I think the only problem with that in states like New Jersey, connecticut, the New England states you literally have prosecutors here that are just waiting for some more to come and do something so they can make a case out of it, so they can bring more regulations, more laws, more infringements. That's the only problem with that. So I mean, again, this is a long topic that could go on forever, but where do you, where do you find the middle ground so that we don't wind up with more restrictions and Possibly them trying to overturning this all together? I mean I don't think it happened, but you know it could. You never know.

Speaker 4: 1:31:21

Well, that's, and that goes back to my point of you know, I want to mount a minigun on my Tacoma. It's that any restrictions, you know, as you already said, any restrictions on your rights. It's no longer a right.

Speaker 4: 1:31:33

Yeah so it, you know it's. It's one thing if the government imposes these restrictions, but it's a completely different thing if we take it upon ourselves as a community and as individuals, to To police ourselves to ensure that, you know, we are the best operator that we can and and I use this I, you know I can use this point. You know I'm a vet, so I was. You know I was issued a pistol in the military was issued, you know, an M16 and an M4. So the government spent all this money teaching me how to shoot these weapons. But then when I get home, new York State tells me no, you can't have a pistol until you're 21, I'm like. Well, when I was 18, uncle Sam said yeah, here you go, no problem.

Speaker 1: 1:32:17

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:32:19

You know at what point are? You know, as a society, are we? Are we kidding ourselves when it comes to this?

Speaker 4: 1:32:25

and you know, well, as we've already said, we can go on it. You know I, I could sit here and talk for the next six hours about, you know, gun rights and and you know the politics behind it, but at the end of the day, it's it's it's on the individual. It's not necessarily something that I, you know, pert, and just personally believe that the government should be Mandating this. And, yeah, there are stupid people out there, but you know there's stupid people out there ignoring the laws. So, even if we add more laws, they're still gonna ignore the laws, like you could take away. You know.

Speaker 4: 1:33:00

Look at New York City. New York City is arguably the most Restricted, was the most restrictive place when it came to firearms in the country outside of DC at one point. And Look at all the gun violence in New York City. I'm sitting in the Bronx right now and I'm telling you this Got, you know, criminal. You know criminals that are not following gun laws. Now, more gun laws are not going to stop that. Yeah, of course. So I, you know that. I guess that would be my counterpoint to saying more Regulation isn't necessarily the answer. It would be no, we need to. You know, we needed to police ourselves and be better at what we do, because People who are not paying attention to the laws right now are not gonna pay attention to new laws.

Speaker 7: 1:33:47

And that goes to point as well.

Speaker 7: 1:33:49

I mean policing ourselves.

Speaker 7: 1:33:50

But policing ourselves also means Policing the community, and a good example that is I belong to several different ranges here in our area the amount of people that are coming out in full force now that they want to conceal carry and they just want to be more interested, I would say, since COVID in firearms ownership and usage is through the roof, and the amount of stupid stuff that I see go on in our range, at my most local range, which does not have a full-time RO, I've had to call out so much stuff and people get tense and they get anxious and they you know it's uncomfortable but you have to see.

Speaker 7: 1:34:31

It's like you see something, you have to say something, and that's, I think, just as important. You know, and that's gonna go a further way, you know, of educating these people, because there there aren't a lot of people that are educated. You know new people coming into this and so we have to help them along, just like we have to help along the ordinary neighbors in the places where we go to hunt and they don't know the laws and they, they want to call the cops on us when we're going Into an area. It's the same thing you got to help these people along. Yeah, bring them along.

Speaker 2: 1:35:01

I should say oh yeah, no, and we'll, like I said, we'll do it like we'll definitely cuz this. This is a good one, like. I definitely want to talk more about this topic and everything like that, so we'll do another table round table segment.

Speaker 3: 1:35:14

I'm just gonna be on this. Oh, that was a great dialogue, yeah, but that was good.

Speaker 2: 1:35:18

Got it, got us hooked and we can I mean guns is just a rabbit hole to begin with. And listen, I'm 100% with Chris. I would love to have a mini gun mounted on my truck, especially gosh. I have a chocolate or or something goes wrong like, like I want to, but could you imagine driving down the street with that thing like man.

Speaker 3: 1:35:37

And Well, steve wrapped it up good by saying it's the same type of mindset that we face as Hunters, what let's just call it?

Speaker 3: 1:35:44

The anti-hunting community or the quote-unquote. I say this very lightly, all the time, joking, the Karen's near your publicly, in parking spot, wherever you're going. It's not their fault, they don't. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but if they don't know the hunting regulations because they've, they don't come from a hunting family, they've never had a hunting background, they've never been exposed to it. Maybe it doesn't necessarily make them wrong. Maybe makes them miss, misinformed or uninformed, sure, but we have enough standing in the community to try and help them, to teach them, and you know when ever you can, and that's why we always talk about the ethics and just being on the top of your game. Anytime you have an encounter with anybody, whether it's in the hunting woods, it's at the range with your pistol, it's at the range with your rifle. Obviously, they're probably more than anywhere, but it's one cell phone away from you being that person on the news at the end of the day, and then I will.

Speaker 4: 1:36:38

To to show, to talk about the other side of that coin, dave, to quote a, an actual legal practice. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse. So just be. And that goes back to what we were talking about, about policing ourselves and whatnot.

Speaker 4: 1:36:52

These, you know, these Karen's, if you will, the, the, the anti's that are out there trying to tell you that you're wrong for Legally participating in, you know, in your privilege of hunting. That's why there's hunter harassment laws. It's, it's, it's not your fault. And even if you, you know, and that's probably one of the downsides of social media now is somebody can get on their phone and, and you know, spew off to you and People, you know people who are uneducated, will think you're in the wrong, when in actuality this person's actually committing a crime by doing this. So it's, it goes to into, you know, it goes back to what I was saying with that individual responsibility, where even the anti hunters and you know anti, you know anti gun people and whatnot they, you know, as as much as they don't want to do this, they, they really do require an education on the hunting laws, on gun laws, on things like this, because it's not, it's not my fault. You don't understand what's going on and some of the yeah, how do we do that?

Speaker 3: 1:37:55

How do we do that as a hunting community? How do we break down those barriers for somebody that wants, who thinks it's maybe so despicable Revolution?

Speaker 2: 1:38:09

You wonder why the service was pointing you guys out at the enter, at the, some of these people some of these people learn these lessons for themselves.

Speaker 7: 1:38:23

We had an individual in our area over here down in South Jersey. She decided that she didn't like a blind facing her property on a piece of public, so she went and destroyed the guy's chair, his camera, stole the blind. The didn't know. There was another camera that caught her doing this and the warden promptly showed up, asked her what happened, put her in cuffs and she wound up paying over ten thousand dollars in fines. So that's that, yeah.

Speaker 7: 1:38:55

I mean we say, that's that like that's great, right, that's, that's good. But at the end of the day we still made an enemy, because now you still have a pissed off person that's going around and they're not. They didn't learn anything from it. You know, like that's, that's they learned, but they didn't change their opinion.

Speaker 7: 1:39:12

So if we can make friends instead of enemies when it comes to that and I'll tell the stories, mike and the guys know I've had so many there's not a single place, a hundred this year that I didn't have somebody trying to kick me off or keep me out. Keep me out. But I mean, I'll tell the story sometime. But we have opportunities. We have opportunities to bring the public Along with us and to educate them, and that's in the states that we live in and the stuff that we encounter. We don't live in Ohio, we don't live in PA, we don't. Sorry, some of us live in PA. You know we don't live in those states where this is normal practice. So we want to continue to increase our rights and the land that you know, land options and things like that, and funding for Fish and wildlife and all that we need to be willing to bring the public along.

Speaker 2: 1:40:04

Well, on that topic we'll hit one more because we're almost hitting that two-hour mark. I Do love these segments for what we'll definitely be doing more in the future. We'll probably do a couple more in the summer. But you know, we kind of started a a new segment here of idiot of the week and I came across a story From outdoor lifecom. So Two men poached a moose in Denali National Park, then abandoned the meat because they were scared of bears.

Speaker 2: 1:40:38

The brothers all said they didn't realize they had entered the park but later denied the incident one questioned by law enforcement. So basically this happened in 2000, I guess 21 or whatever. So Andrew McDonald of Harrisburg, south Dakota, and Christopher Broom Broomwell of Anchorage were both convicted of one count of misdemeanor of unlawful transport of illegally taken wildlife. As part of a plea arrangement they now must cough up ten thousand dollars each and are under probation for four years, which means no hunting until 2028 and in any state. The incident occurred during McDonald's first hunt. According to court documents obtained by outdoor life, broomwell grew up hunting and had hunted moose in Alaska once before. Mcdonald's family Accompanied the duo to camp for a weekend trip, which quickly turned into Literal nightmare. And as Broomwell did? Where is the bear part? The three groups of hunters each separately reported McDonald and Broomwell into the National Park Service after him, witnessing McDonald's, shoot the moose illegally. Both McDonald and Broomwell were carrying the necessary license at the time, but they had wandered roughly 600 yards into the park without apparently realizing it. When McDonald shot the moose, it stood less than a thousand yards inside the park boundary with a.

Speaker 2: 1:42:03

While hunting inside Denali National preserve is legal, hunting inside the National Park is not. Man, this is. This is a lot. The men's skin, the moose skull for the European Mount hiked out 120 pounds of meat between the two of them, all of which they had on their back. Where to say, hey, where does it? Mm-hmm, where is okay? So the NPS Destructed the men to pack the rest of the meat out to the to be returned over to the park rangers.

Speaker 2: 1:42:39

But Broomwell, mcdonald and McDonald's wife returned to the kill site, discovered that a bear had gotten into the meat and rendered most of it Unstutable. So they left it, left the scene without extracting anything. So I'm guessing basically they went back to get the rest of the meat and the bears had gotten to it and they use the excuse. So that means not good anymore. We're just gonna. We're just gonna leave Anyone like I Don't know how to feel about this one because after reading it it's very unfortunate and yet again, they could have purposely went in there and they could have by mistake, gone into the park and shot 600 yards into the into a line. Is that's deep? It's very like I. It could go both ways. So I want to hear what you guys think think of this before, like I can even put my it. Does anyone have anything on this?

Speaker 4: 1:43:39

Yeah, I'll, I'm gonna repeat myself on this ignorance of the law is no excuse. They should, personally, if, if you're hunting, especially if, if You're out in in an area that you're not necessarily familiar with, you should probably know where you are at all times. You should probably know where these boundaries are, especially on a hunt like that. So I, I'm, I'm gonna stand by that that ignorance of the law is is not an excuse. They should have known where they were, especially when they got an order to go recover the meat. They, you know, even if a bear got to it, whatever's left you, you better bring something you know back to the truck and say, yeah well, a bear got it, but we recovered whatever was left, like here's, like here, here's what's left. Like it was this little piece and this little hoof. Here you go, this is what we got. That was all that was left. Like, if you want, we took pictures. You know that's on them. No, yeah, I mean the amount of.

Speaker 3: 1:44:38

They might not necessarily be offense per se on that border, but I am sure there's signage everywhere if we're talking about a national park or preserve. I go to my local park and you can't go 50 feet without seeing a sign of.

Speaker 4: 1:44:54

Well, well, now, once you get into those those big national parks, david's, it's a little bit different, like they're not 50 feet. But you know, especially with today's to I don't know how long ago, this incident.

Speaker 5: 1:45:07

You know, yeah, there was a lot, especially there's on a hunt like that, even if you don't have on extra carrying a GPS.

Speaker 4: 1:45:12

You have something you should. They should have known. We've got a map, you probably got a regular fold-out map at that right right and that again you know I I'll stand by. Ignorance of the law is no excuse they should have. They should have known what was going on.

Speaker 5: 1:45:26

It still works without nervous to.

Speaker 6: 1:45:29

Yeah, you can use that X without you know you could still.

Speaker 5: 1:45:32

You don't even need service. Gps doesn't need service. You can, you know, turn on airplane mode and use on X. Still, I think it's a, it's a Whatever, whatever they did, I think it's what, obviously, you killed two moves.

Speaker 2: 1:45:47

So the the the fine was going to be a lot. It wasn't that much of a difference. The fine was going to be a lot. It wasn't like they went in there. Because I know somebody who he was hunting and he went completely over the border Chasing a certain animal and then he actually got hit with a ticket. He didn't shoot anything, he didn't kill anything, he didn't nothing like that. He just went a Couple hundred yards over and he got hit with a ticket. It was just a ticket, right, he. He even agreed that he goes. If he would have killed something, then I think it would. He was like, it would have been a much different, like if I would have shot that animal that I was going after he goes, then I think it would have been just like a little different. But man, when you do get wrapped up and Border and borders are, it is very difficult. It is, it is very difficult. But listen, at the end of the day Shit happens.

Speaker 7: 1:46:51

I mean there it is that basically falls on the poaching category right at that point, ken.

Speaker 2: 1:46:59

I Legally, I don't. I don't think they I Don't, I don't really think so I it's such a yet again tough because I think if they could have hit them with the poaching, I think they would have hit them with the poaching. I think it would have came up like yeah, they're, you know, these guys were poaching. Because I guess.

Speaker 2: 1:47:21

Well, everything they had was legal, like they had the tags they had. They just shot the animal in an area that what? Six, six hundred two thousand yards into a border of where they shouldn't have been right, that's where so they weren't. Now, if they purposely went and did it, then I guess you can. But it's he said. She said thing.

Speaker 2: 1:47:48

They said they didn't they know so like that's what. That's why I said technically, yeah, I mean yeah, it's a, it's a tough, because everything was on point except for Something like that. That's tough. I mean, I don't know, it's tough. It's unfortunate If they they didn't really mean to do it, if they purposely meant and that's my whole thing if they purposely meant to do it, then listen.

Speaker 4: 1:48:14

You know well, I'll leave you with this. If it was a hundred yards, okay, that's not a, that's not a great distance. If that's a thousand yards. That's there, yeah that's an entire grid square into the park like that. Yeah, again, there's back to you, to what we were talking about. You needed you know, they needed to know where they were. They were deep into the park at that point. They were well over that line. So I, I, how would that?

Speaker 7: 1:48:40

how would that be handled here, like in any in any of our states?

Speaker 4: 1:48:43

if you went, you hunted on somebody else's land you didn't have permission on your trespassing your trespassing right, yeah, so at the very least, yeah, at the very, at the very least, your trespassing or hiring in an area you know a restricted area? Yeah, at most Could they, could you make a case that you know, yeah, they were poaching. Could you know? I'm not a lawyer but I mean, yeah, I could probably stand there and draw up a case saying you know they were, even though that they were, they had everything legal that they, you know, had.

Speaker 4: 1:49:16

I guess poaching you have to show an intent to do wrong, however it goes. But but yeah, it's not like they were on the line or shot an animal and it crossed the line, like they were well into this property and that's. That would be the same thing. I guess around here, say, you walk, you know I have state parks in New York that that you're not allowed to hunt on. Some of that is surrounded by areas that you might be allowed to hunt on. You cross that line, you go shoot a deer on the other, on the other side of that line. You're wrong and yeah, there's, there's no other way about it.

Speaker 2: 1:49:50

You know, yeah, no, I hunted my buck that I was after this year. I got him to all the way where he was betting and he was unfortunately betting right on private. So I could go as far as the, as the line, and that's like yes, and that's what we're talking about when you're using on X, it's like all right, like there's so much mapping out there and technology out there, like I went straight up to that line and I was like, well, this is where it's going to go. When he's, I can't chase him any further. I have to wait for him to come to me, like there's, there's. I did everything I possibly could except for trespass on on this person. Like you know, I definitely could have gone and knock on the door. I don't know. You know, I think if he's still live in next year, I may try to do that and work myself on the neighbors. But you know, if they say no, it's straight up, it's, it's a no, you know, and then there's nothing I can do about it.

Speaker 2: 1:50:43

But last thing that you know what? What? Well, real quick. The last thing, what is? What can our state do, or our states do to simplify this process for us? Because one thing that we've always talked about is how confusing all these rules. Is there any way that they can simplify it? Is there any way they can make it? Every state is a. I know it's kind of almost impossible, but do you think every state should really be the same? Kind of something like that, where most general rules should be equal? And even because every time now you know and and Mike could talk about this too Like I actually now starting to get nervous and uneasy, and you know Mike talks about in other episodes of how, coming back, how anxious he was, now it's like you don't want to make any any little type of mistake.

Speaker 2: 1:51:39

And even like we went out and Peyton was like, oh well, can I shoot a coyote? And I was like, well, if you don't have your, your technically no. Or like you got to make sure you have the right shots. You have to make sure you have the right shells. This, this technically, I found out if you have more than what I forget. Who told me this might have been Mike. Who told me? I can't, can't remember if you told me this, mike or somebody else. Technically, I think you can only have like three or four arrows in your quiver. If you have a quiver with yeah, with six or more. In the state of New Jersey it's technically illegal.

Speaker 2: 1:52:11

Your quiver Okay.

Speaker 2: 1:52:13

So it was it was, it was it was somebody else then told me and I remember when I took the test, there was something on it of how many arrows you can actually carry in your quiver. Now, I could be wrong and mistaken, but someone told me that this year and it was like hey, you know, technically, if you carry a certain amount of arrows and you're, you're over and like, you can actually get a ticket for that. Now I don't know if Peyton's looking that up right now, cause it looks like he's looking at yeah, yeah, he is looking.

Speaker 1: 1:52:44

Okay.

Speaker 2: 1:52:45

So he'll be able to give us the answer. But somebody told me that this year I cannot remember who told me it but it's like, come on, that's something that like, really, if, if this is true, like that's a rule that none of us knew, none of us.

Speaker 7: 1:53:05

And, to your point, there are plenty of plenty of things like that. When we went from, you know, rut to late season this year, I decided I wanted to hunt out of a blind because one of the areas I was in no foliage whatsoever. All right, cool, let's go hunt in a blind. I had to search and dig and dig and dig in order to figure out if I could hunt in a blind in the 50 yard, 150 foot zone on the ground. And I had, I mean like I had to talk to different people and really go through the digest and was almost left up to personal interpretation of the way it was worded. At the end of the day, you know, is that that's some insidious behavior that's in trap, they're like. Is that in trap? I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 6: 1:53:53

I think the answer was that American bike laughing in the background.

Speaker 4: 1:53:59

I think some of the answer would be would be simplifying the laws. And you know and this, this is this goes for not just hunting. You know, hunting and fishing laws, any law, these laws are written, but, you know, by politicians who, in most cases, are attorneys themselves. They're lawyers, they're not writing laws for the everyday man and that I think that is a big issue where, yes, you need to have have things spelled out, but they should be spelled out plainly. You know, lawyers are not reading this every day.

Speaker 7: 1:54:34

People are reading this. Yeah, no, yep.

Speaker 7: 1:54:37

I mean, I brought it up to the forum that we so there are three forums in the state. Earlier this year in Jersey and it was Fish and Wildlife doing hosting these forums for hunters to come out and talk about things and talk about the new regulations they're proposing for 2025. It was one of the things I said to them. I said you know how how much easy you can make this for hunters? Just come up with an app. Just come up with an app that shows the regulations the regulation sets for all the different zones across the board. That would be one simple, easy thing. Their response oh, we don't have the budget for that. Oh, okay, they don't. Yeah, you don't have the budget for anything, but yet you keep writing this digest every year.

Speaker 2: 1:55:22

Right Right, you don't have the budget for it but, you keep raising the prices of hunting licenses.

Speaker 1: 1:55:28

That too, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3: 1:55:30

New York State did make an app and today credit, today credit to maybe this one small time New York State maybe did something somewhat. We used to have an app. It's not bad. I mean, you can report all your harvest right on there, you have access to all your tags, you have access to basically whatever the syllabus, the printout syllabus on the app form. I'm sure you can get in contact with local agents for any reason, so that's not bad. I don't think anybody would disagree. You're like definitely getting it on your phone? Yeah, without a doubt, it's definitely the way to go.

Speaker 2: 1:56:06

Everything should be your license should be on the phone.

Speaker 5: 1:56:08

We should no longer have to like it should, no longer it should just be on your phone.

Speaker 2: 1:56:12

If I can carry everything on my wallet literally on my phone here, like that's ridiculous. I have my health insurance, AAA, my everything is on my phone.

Speaker 2: 1:56:25

And we're out of the app at that point, exactly like everything should just be available on the phone. Simplify the shit out of it, because there's nothing more simple than, honestly, I forgot my license the other day. I didn't realize that I did not have my freaking license on me the other day, so then I'm freaking out. I'm like shit, what happens Like now. You know I well, I always carry screenshots just in case you know. Just, at least I have something to prove that. Hey, listen, I have all my stuff, it's all screenshot. But you know there's always that worry. It's like, am I doing?

Speaker 7: 1:57:03

something illegal.

Speaker 7: 1:57:06

We're so antiquated in Jersey too I mean all the other States you have a tag. You I mean I'm sure American Mike was going to want to jump in on this one but you, you know you actually have a tag and you punch it right and then you put it on the animal. Our tags that come with our license specifically say do not affix to the animal. You know, just modernize this stuff. It's not, it's not that hard. They come into the 21st century. For example, my buddy, justin from Kentucky bloodlines archery, you know, he saw a photo of my license on my bag in one of my videos and and he's like what is that? Or no, it was on my jacket. He's like why, why is your license on your jacket? I'm like that's the rule in Jersey. It has to be exposed, it has to be able To see it. He's like that is ridiculous, like modernize.

Speaker 6: 1:57:54

Now you need to walk with a whole binder in the woods in order to yeah, dear log sheet, your dare. Take transportation tag plus your tags and someone like me. I buy tags for everything and the tag holder doesn't hold all of the tag, does it? Yep.

Speaker 7: 1:58:12

You know what? Someone's going to make a lot of money off that. They're going to come up with something streamlined now, yeah.

Speaker 5: 1:58:18

Now real quick. I'm not a lawyer. And it retracts when you're done, not a lawyer, but I did read the book and I did ask Chachi PT and I can't seem to find an arrow quiver restriction in New Jersey. That doesn't mean that one doesn't exist, but I looked real hard and couldn't find one.

Speaker 7: 1:58:37

So maybe it's a little old maybe yeah. It doesn't mean that one of those new five game worms isn't going to try to ding you for it.

Speaker 5: 1:58:45

Yeah, yeah, so you can sit with what you will.

Speaker 6: 1:58:54

I have a question for everyone in this chat. What's your take on the extension period during the month of February in certain zones in New Jersey? And other zones are closed. Like what tells you that, like zone six doesn't have enough deer to kill during that extended period in February, but zones eight, you can go and kill them in February. What's the difference?

Speaker 5: 1:59:20

I don't mind that at all. Oh my God, am I coming from? Like legitimate, like data, right? Like if you're having like biologists actually doing surveys and they actually have a legitimate deer count, whether that's from drone, like thermal imaging or highway count, you know what have you right? If it's actually like legitimate data and it's like okay, we have a set carrying capacity and we need to get more off the landscape, we need to extend the season, we need to kill more deer, I'm totally cool with that.

Speaker 5: 1:59:47

I think that you would know that ahead of time going into the season and then maybe you should like then the gun season, the doing it at the end of February if you actually wanted to get it done and I think it's the same thing with bears is like they're going about it wrong. Like if you look at bears killed in New Jersey, it's like 75% of them are killed in October when they're in hyperphalasia. You know, if you actually wanted to put a dent in the bear population, you would extend the archery season in October, you would extend the one in December. So you know it's about. Yeah, it's based on real data, it's just and I don't think this is up to the biologists, because I think the biologists in the state are very good and I think how they break up the zones makes a lot of is at its core in like the best interests of the state's resource. I think when it comes to actually creating the laws is when it gets like kind of screwed up Sure.

Speaker 4: 2:00:34

Well, I'll tell you how they do it in New York. And this goes back to my point of we have to police ourselves In New York how they allot. You know DMP permits and you know DOE permits for the following year is based on hunter reporting when you report your kills in New York. That's the data I mean in addition to the highway kill data, but that is what the biologists use to determine. You know X amount of deer were taken out of the estimated population. So we need to, you know we need to increase funding. So again, that goes back to our community and as individuals, you know you need to. You need to report your kills accurately.

Speaker 2: 2:01:17

Yep, I agree and I think, honestly, to also answer your question, mike, I wouldn't. I think if you were to end it January 31st I'd be happy, right, I wouldn't, truthfully. Truthfully because I now we can go out squirrel hunting, small, small game hunting you know all different I small coyote hunting. We can focus on other stuff, especially coyote hunting and that predator hunting. Like we can focus on that, you know, which is going to help our turkey populations, going to help our deer population, right? Also, this year, something we've talked about a lot, a lot of guys that we know shot pregnant, does you know? We talked about it a couple episodes ago. Like that's very off-putting, especially if you're a new hunter and you're not, or you're looking, you know you're trying to get into hunting or something like that. That's very off-putting.

Speaker 3: 2:02:14

So like if those are starting to be bred earlier. That'll catch anybody. That'll catch anybody off guard Field, Justin and you come across, that'll be like ah man.

Speaker 4: 2:02:25

Well, the answer to that wouldn't be extending the season on the back end, it would be extending hunter access on the front end. You know, here in New York they instituted the early dose season in September. You guys in Jersey your bow season opens in September. Here in New York we're waiting until October. If they really wanted to get rid of deer, you know, from a biological standpoint we should be hunting them earlier in the year when their patterns are very set. It's actually, you know, I don't want to say that it makes it unfair to the animals, but it in terms of of like, you know, quotas of harvest allowing hunters better, you know, better access earlier in the season is what's going to, is what's really going to drive those numbers down. It's not adding it on on the back end after these deer have been hunted. For you know, months and months, and months and now, you know, now they're running scared through the woods. Give us time earlier.

Speaker 2: 2:03:24

I 100% agree with you on that. I love the early season. I love that I can start the second week of September. Honestly, I'm going to, I'm going to push it even further. Take away yeah, take away those two weeks of in February for deer. I already said I right, open it up the first weekend of September and just do a, a velvet hunt. There you go. Absolutely, that would be insane, because you know I'm not a person that likes to hunt in the heat.

Speaker 2: 2:03:54

I guarantee you my ass will be after a velvet buck, right, listen screw the doe, like I really whatever just or just do it for a couple of days, like, hey, three days you have an opportunity to go get a velvet buck and you'll you'll close it again and then the the earn, the buck can can start again where you have to shoot a doe, but make it something where it's like you give people, first of all, more money for the state. Hey, you guys are saying, you guys are you're having money problems. Listen, there, you go, open that up and and and do what you want. You can even jump up that price a little bit because, listen, instead of traveling to Kentucky and I said this in a in a recent podcast that we did said a traveling to Kentucky, oh great, I'll spend the extra money and stay in New Jersey to hunt a velvet buck in New Jersey. Yeah, Screw traveling all that time and spending all that extra waste of money to to go to another state. If we can do it here, I would gladly do it here. Right, and then get rid of that two weeks in February.

Speaker 2: 2:04:56

Let the deer like yes, you're right, chris, hit it harder earlier. You know once that late season's like all right, cool, we're done. More for waterfowl, more for the, for the other animals We've already, we've all hunted hard throughout the year by a time, like we said. Like I said earlier, once November Thanksgiving hits, we're already spent. Anyway, most of us are like we're kind of done. I know for Mike his busy time in the season starts so you know if it starts snowing he's out plowing so he's not going out hunting anyway. A lot of people don't hunt in the winter like like they do early season.

Speaker 7: 2:05:28

And that's a good point right there. That's a good point right there. If they take away those two weeks in February, will they, will the state not make their money early on licenses because people be less inclined to buy their season, their season tag, early?

Speaker 2: 2:05:45

So I mean then you know what, Make it a more reason to coyote hunt.

Speaker 2: 2:05:53

Make it more of a like hey, give people more of an incentive like, listen, well, because that'd be crazy. But well, hey, listen, start trapping, start doing this more. And you know, whatever you know, think of something else to do, because, yes, we do need coyotes and raccoons gone, we need those animals to be managed. So, give listen, I'll spend more than $2, a goddamn permit, make it 50,. I will spend $50 because I do love it. Hey, make the coyote the predator $50. Okay, here you go, here's $50 for you.

Speaker 2: 2:06:27

Now I could go hunt coyotes, and it's almost 24 hours because you can hunt them at night too, and the and the and the and this time of the year, I think the only time you can't hunt them is one, obviously on Sundays, and I think that's only with a gun. So you can bow hunt them. I said I believe don't quote me on that and then it says something like 30 minutes before, I guess, when you're transitioning from the rifle to shotgun only is there's a time limit where you can't hunt them. And same thing vice versa, when you're transitioning from shotgun to rifle. You just can't hunt them because some something like that where you can't do it. So, besides that, listen, there you go, there's your, there's your there, it is Taking care of. Wow, it's just look at how simple that was.

Speaker 6: 2:07:14

Just like the price of the bear tag. I mean the bear is considered our big game and it's $2 for a bear tag. When I went to the butcher shop to drop off my bear tag I saw more out of state plates than Jersey plates. The amount of people that came from out of state to hunt the state of New York for bear. They should I think they should definitely bump up the bear tag.

Speaker 2: 2:07:37

And that's what it usually is. Like, usually if we go to, if we go to New York to hunt with Chris and Chris and Dave, we have to spend more money because we're getting out of state. When we go all over you usually have to spend more. And I know people that are coming from from other states that come hunting New Jersey. I know their deer license. I believe, chris, you can, and it's more money. I don't I don't know if you've ever, but it is more money.

Speaker 2: 2:08:00

But listen, for the bear, like Mike said, it's our big game. This is the most densely populated. Like this is what people want. Spike that up a little bit. They're killing us on other stuff for no reason when you do have two great potential animals that we can hunt here for more than $2. And I'm all for cheap, like don't get me wrong, I'm all for cheap and making it for, but I'd rather get hit a little extra with a special hunt, like bear and coyote and stuff like that, and not get hit where. Hey, you know, we got to give you a ticket for this or we got to do this and we got to do that, but they're going to try to to charge us out the out the ass for something else. You know what I mean. So there's a given and take.

Speaker 6: 2:08:45

And what I find. You know, I've had the run in with the wardens multiple times, as everyone knows, but the wardens say they don't have a quota to meet right, they don't have a quota. Their pay is based off of the tags that they sell or the licenses that were sold for the year. So if, if you know, you guys want to hire, pay raise, why are the tags for bear so cheap? Or coyote? That's predator, it's $2. Like I don't understand it.

Speaker 2: 2:09:17

Yeah, I didn't know that.

Speaker 6: 2:09:18

I had no idea that they got, so yeah yeah, the warden says they don't have a quota to meet. That's not why they write tickets. They don't intend on writing tickets. They get paid through the, the tags and licenses that sold throughout the year.

Speaker 2: 2:09:37

All right. Well, guys, I think we need to end it there, because I think this might be one of the longest podcasts that we've done.

Speaker 2: 2:09:44

I think it's coming close to that. We are going to do this all over again. This is such a blast. I do love talking to all the guys and everything like that. We'll have to, I think, maybe try to do it if I can, maybe every month, every every few months, something like that. Get some new people on stuff like that. But you know all the listeners out there. Let me know what you guys thought about. Think about this segment. To me, it's pretty fun, guys. I hope you guys enjoyed it and everything like that, and I think we'll. Oh well, we got the game dinner. I'll see all the guys that have been on today. I will see you guys there, really excited for that.

Speaker 2: 2:10:19

One of the giveaways that we're going to be doing and Mike knows, knows him and did Mike's role build is should have went to Shack. Yeah, I hit him up and I said, hey, listen. So it's going to be six custom arrows, listen, and and Mike, and Mike can tell you how much he wasn't getting full, and this was the thing that really made me go to like I, he's coming on the podcast, everything like that. So, mike, I got to see if you can get on for that so we can go over what he did for you. But Mike wasn't getting full penetration with the sever arrows. He never got a pastor. Mike said one of his things that he wants when is a full pass through? And Mike gave him all the information, everything like that, and he set up his, his arrow, and Mike, I think, has had a pass through every time since then every animal, except for the spine shot deer every animal.

Speaker 2: 2:11:16

And so I'm really excited to talk to him, really excited to get that done. We'll be adding more giveaways. I think I'm going to be potentially be giving away this right here. It is the Fox pro predator call Nice. This is the one that I ran run. I had to buy a new one because I can't find my remote right now and I needed a new remote real quick so I could go out and hunt. But I think I'm going to be giving that, that away and everything like that.

Speaker 3: 2:11:46

But yeah, we'll be on to that.

Speaker 2: 2:11:49

Yeah, exactly, mike is going to kill me, but thank you guys so much for coming on. We got a whole bunch of episodes to be recorded. March 17th we're starting our interviews, mike is actually getting our early release and I'll be editing Mike and I will be sitting down, I think, next week and going over his season, but we got a lot of new faces. I think 11 of our episodes coming up are all brand new. Brand new guests and still climb in. I plan on getting Dave, I plan on getting Chris again, I plan on getting the usual crew and everything like that. But a lot of new episodes to come and I thank you guys all for the support. I thank you guys for coming out and spending now the last almost three hours sitting here chatting, everything like that.

Speaker 2: 2:12:36

Make sure you guys go check out Chris and Dave at Urban Pursuit and Only Bose. Go check out Pursuit Live. Every Friday they're on at 7.30 on Instagram Live Boom. Make sure you guys go check out America and Mike at the Back, dan Productions Absolute amazing stuff that they're doing there. And go check out our guy Frank Broadside Frank, he's got some exciting news that he will be sharing with you guys pretty shortly and everything like that. Go check out.

Speaker 4: 2:13:03

Just don't let him enter your giveaways.

Speaker 2: 2:13:08

Listen him and that other that Donnie guy always freaking win.

Speaker 1: 2:13:13

Always win.

Speaker 2: 2:13:15

Thank you so much for joining and we'll see you guys, next time.