Boondocks Hunting Podcast
Welcome to the home of the Boondocks Hunting Podcast Family — where real stories, raw experiences, and the outdoor lifestyle come together.
This is your hub for everything Boondocks Hunting, featuring our shows:
The Garden State Outdoorsmen Podcast, Chase the Unknown, and Echoes of the Hunt: Behind the Hunt — a deeper dive behind the story of the hunters.
From New Jersey whitetail woods to out-of-state adventures, we dive deep into hunting, fishing, conservation, and the mindset that drives it all. Join us as we break down tactics, share unfiltered stories from the field, bring on incredible guests, and showcase the passion behind the pursuit.
Whether you're a seasoned hunter or just getting started, you're part of the family here.
Tune in… and get ready to Chase the Unknown.
Boondocks Hunting Podcast
From Whitetail's to South Africa's Game: A Hunter's Tale with Levi Rice
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Get ready for a captivating episode with our special guest, Levi Rice from Team Wackenstack! Listen in as we embark on a thrilling journey across diverse hunting terrains, experiencing the unique challenges and triumphs each landscape presents. We kick things off with Ohio and South Jersey, exploring their rich deer hunting culture, the evolution of deer management, and the significance of every encounter with these magnificent creatures.
Our adventure continues as we move from America to the wilds of South Africa. Here, we uncover Levi's family hunting traditions that have forged an unbreakable father-son bond. We deep dive into the nitty-gritty of international hunting trips - choosing the right guide, understanding firearm laws, and the shared experiences these journeys entail. As we adventure into the South African wilderness, we scrutinize the legal and economic aspects of hunting over waterholes and using bait, and underscore the importance of resource conservation.
Last, but certainly not least, we delve into South Africa's incredible game species, from the wildebeest to the Cape buffalo. We're talking about the distinctive traits of horned and antlered animals, diverse preparation methods, and delicious taste profiles. Plus, we're spotlighting the importance of ethical hunting practices, featuring Levi's successful bow hunting experience with a heavy 80-pound, 900-grain arrow set-up. So buckle up for an episode jam-packed with astonishing hunting tales, insightful observations, and unforgettable reflections.
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Different Hunting Experiences and Terrain
Speaker 2Welcome back to the Garden State Outdoors and Podcast presented by Boonak Sonning . I'm your host , mike Nitro , and today we have Levi Rice from Team Wackenstack . Welcome , hey , thanks for having me . No , no problem at all . So whenever we have new people on , we have them give themselves a quick introduction . Tell them tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got into hunting and everything like that .
Speaker 1Okay , so well , where to start ? I guess a little bit about me . I'm from Ohio . I've been hunting for the better part of 25 , 26 years now Really started going hunting in Ohio on deer drives and everything like that as a young kid Most of the pusher you know the dog running through the stuff because I was smaller , me and my friends always hunted small game rabbits , squirrel , all that kind of stuff after school and all that stuff when it was in season . I've lived all over like I'm from Ohio , lived in Texas , hunted a little bit in Texas , lived in New Jersey . Believe it or not , I love New Jersey . It's an awesome place to hunt a lot of deer up there .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah .
Speaker 1There's so many deer up there . It's crazy . You wouldn't even think so , but it's a hunter's paradise , yeah no .
Speaker 2And that's real quick Before we . That is exactly like everyone who , if you're listening to this and you're not from New Jersey or never hunted New Jersey , like I always tell people it's such an underestimated state because first of all , everyone just thinks oh deer , are they like the deer ? Are they short Like ? That's the biggest like joke . Even outside of the state of New Jersey they only think of New Jersey for like the Jersey Shore and maybe like New York City or something like that . But we have a lot to offer , not only just deer bear coyotes . You know the fishing is great Like , so there is a lot . So , as you can see , someone who's kind of hunted all over the place and what we're going to be getting into and all different type of game animals , to be saying that it really does mean it means a lot .
Speaker 1Yeah , it was well like I said it was , it's surprising . It really is , because you get up there you're like I don't know Cause , like you say all year about New Jersey is like Newark or Camden or somewhere up there up North . But then you get down South you're like hang on a second , there's a lot here .
Speaker 2No , 100% . I mean South Jersey is is North and South . They're so different , you know , because South is flat , like South is just flat . We had one of our buddies and I love telling this podcast . He came up and he's from South Jersey and we were up in like that Blair Sound area and it's all woods and ridges and I guess you can call them mountains , but like not mountains compared to West Virginia or anything like that . But he was dying and he was like man , it's so different because South Jersey is flat , he goes a little well we have is a range of the little
Speaker 2tiny little bit of just out , even know what . I guess like 20 feet , 30 feet maybe , and over here it's , it's with North Jersey , that that's , that's , nothing you know . So there is a big difference when you , when you're talking about about that North and where South , and just hunting to a big , big bucks and down in South and just a lot of does , a lot of those , yeah , yeah , and that's that's . That's the one that has a big difference . The dough number down South , I think definitely out rival up in North Jersey . So yeah , yeah , sorry to get get distracted .
Speaker 1No , you're good because I can talk about Jersey .
Speaker 2I really love Jersey .
Speaker 1It's weird here and that from being from the Midwest but I really did love Jersey . But yet , like I said , now I live in Missouri . I plan on hunting here this year . I'm just having been able to lock down a spot the past couple of years is where I live . I live in the Southwest portion of Missouri and there's not a ton of public land real close . It doesn't seem like everything I've kind of found is very prairie type , not like woods , not like I'd hunt back in Ohio .
Speaker 2Yeah , so you know , talk , talk a little bit about that . You know just the different areas you hunted . You know so many different spots . Tell us a little bit so our listeners know who maybe they may not know the difference of terrain in Texas to Ohio to , you know , to Jersey and everything like that . Give a little quick backstory on that and what it was like growing up hunting there .
Speaker 1Okay , well , so in Ohio growing up , you know I'm from Central Ohio , so it's a lot of flat farmland , rolling hills . Then you get down in Southern Ohio and it's the foothills , the Appalachians , right . So people say there's no mountains in Ohio but dog going there close to the thing and get to a mountain without being a mountain . So sometimes you get back in the hollers and stuff or the hollows , however you want to say it , and they go so deep up in these woods that you know sometimes these deer don't even see people . They come , they're wondering what the heck you even are . So they're more curious than they are . Whenever you start hunting , like crop fields or stuff like that , and then Jersey , kind of the same way , where I hunted in South Jersey , kind of like you mentioned , rolling hills type , dill agricultural land the deer they're more wary when you get into land like that . Sometimes I didn't get hunting deer . I hunted other things in Texas , but in Texas , where I was , it's very , it's mountainous , right it was near El .
Speaker 1Paso . So a lot of mountains there , not a lot of hardwoods , if you will , or big forests , until you get up , like up in New Mexico , into the Rio de Oso Carlsbad type area .
Speaker 2Okay , that's pretty interesting . What were you hunting in Texas ? I mean , Texas offers a lot and I know you do a lot of different hunting and all different types of species . So what in Texas were you guys focusing on ?
Speaker 1So whenever I was in Texas we were just like coyote hunting stuff , because this had been many years ago . I was young in my career so I didn't have a lot of money to go do other stuff , so I had to take what I had . So was okay , All right gotcha , gotcha .
Speaker 2Now it's coyote hunting is hell of a time . I mean , I absolutely love coyote hunting Down in Texas . What was it like hunting over there ? I mean , I'm so used to hunting coyotes in the cold instead of winter , but over there , what was it like ? What's the difference and what was your success in hunting coyotes in Texas ?
Speaker 1So I never shot a coyote , so obviously I'm a bad coyote hunter .
Speaker 2No , so you and me both had All right . Cool , we're on the same page .
Speaker 1So I would just find some swaths of land and just I hate to say , just sit , because I would like to say I was young I didn't understand really the calling for like four coyotes and all that . I was thinking like way is back in Ohio where if you go coyote hunting you can probably sit like a crop field , like a cut crop field and you can probably at least see some coyotes . But there was just a lot different , in my experience anyway .
Speaker 2Okay , all right , I got you , I got you . So when you're younger , what are some of ? I imagine your dad and family got you into hunting and everything like that . So what were some of your earliest memories ? Hunting with the family and experiences Wow .
Speaker 1Well , so really I really got into hunting with my grandpa . I've hunted with my dad a lot , but I had a tone with my grandpa when I was younger , but some of the experiences with him it's a whole different way of
Deer Hunting Memories and Perspectives
Speaker 1hunting . Like I said , when I was a kid we would push deer . And for those people don't know , like pushing deer , Basically you get in a line in the woods and you just walk and drive the deer out of the woods , Right .
Speaker 2Mm-hmm .
Speaker 1And in central Ohio where I was raised and where I was from , that's just how you deer hunted . Yes , there were some people that archery hunted all that kind of stuff , but we hunted like that and some of the memories I have from that aren't even from shooting deer or anything like that , it's from after the hunt you come in , you're in a barn , you're all skin and deer and all that Everybody else is partaking in some adult beverages . I'm just a kid so obviously I can't do that yet , but just having some of the talks with my grandpa and his friends about what deer season is then in the 90s versus what it was in the 60s , 70s- where deer are fought .
Speaker 2Man , I can only imagine about those stories . I can only imagine that must be a hell of a time listening to the stories .
Speaker 1Oh , yeah , and it's crazy because they all talked about what we know in deer management now versus what they knew back then . They wouldn't shoot a doe in the 80s . They're like we don't shoot does because you need more does for bucks , and we know now that's not necessarily true . So , here in their thought process behind it . It's like holy cow then here and how many , how little deer there were at that time versus what there is today and the millions of dog on deer we have . It's crazy . It was mind boggling to me .
Speaker 2Wow , man , I mean , and that is something that definitely jumps out , I couldn't imagine . I mean , and of course there's some states where you can't hunt Joes Like you normally have to get a special tag . We come from Jersey and you , can you understand this ? I mean , technically , we have an unlimited amount of does in certain zones , or I think there's one zone that I hunted was like seven , and that's seven per season . So that's early season , permit season , winter bow season , shotgun seasons .
Speaker 2You could take so many dough in a single season and it's nothing to first day of season . You have to take a dough to earn your buck tag if you're in the early zone and it's shooting does I mean I love it , I love shooting . Does it's so much fun , good meat , good eating , and it's another challenge in itself . But back then , I mean , it definitely was really frowned upon . But I will say and you know , you , can you know , if you know the answer to this , and because I've heard it , there is no shaming like it is today you know , whatever you killed was and it was celebrated , I think , way more than it is now whether it was a spike , a giant buck , a four pointer , whatever the case , you know it was . It seemed like times are just 100% , just so much different .
Speaker 1Oh yeah , and I would agree with that for sure , I mean we could go down that rabbit hole and talk about . You know what hunting TVs done , what social media is done to hunting in general . But you know , it was at that time as bad as it sounds .
Speaker 1in the 90s , when I grew up hunting early 2000s , it was brown , it's down and like you kill a deer , like that's amazing . You know you put some meat in the freezer and you know we always joke around that home talk about a Kentucky 11 point , that's just a spike buck .
Speaker 2So that's great . And you know something that you know we've been trying to focus on and what we're going to be yeah , like shooting a big buck is great and you know , with big antlers , but you know we're trying to bring back that 200 pound bus club . You know , shooting a big body deer , just the old , mature deer , or you know a unique deer . Or I tell my girlfriend and we try to preach this , especially Andrew and I , to our significant others who were , who've gotten into hunting , like whatever you see you got to kill , like just send it . Like you're new to hunting , you're still growing . Like there has to be , you know , a phase where it doesn't matter and who cares what other people think . Like you know , and if there's anyone out there listening and we've said it time and time again you know , and I believe you know you've been on some of the lives that with Dave and all of them where we've talked about this , like if somebody has something to say , just let us know , tag us in it , whatever you case , because , hey , we're going to congratulate you , we're going to .
Speaker 2You know it's a accomplishment , it's an accomplishment alone to just see a deer . You know there's certain states where it's so hard to see deer . You know that you could go a whole season without seeing a deer , and that's accomplishment right there on its own . Shooting a deer is just another accomplishment , and it's another another thing to just be happy about whether the size doesn't really matter . Everyone has their own goals . But you know , spike is spike . A four point is four point , a 10 point is a 10 point . At the end of the day they're all memories .
Speaker 1Yeah , and that's exactly right . I mean , and you see people on Instagram all the time and social media . I like to follow those guys that are like hey , you can't eat the horns , right ? Don't get me wrong , I like some big horns , right ? I don't think anybody would be mad if they shot , you know , a 200 inch buck , but also that big dough or that . You know that , that buck that's on the downhill slide , that's 120 a year . The big body . It's going to taste good , yep .
Speaker 2Yep , and 120 inch deer I'd need . Here's it , here's it . There's still a lot of people who don't shoot 120 inch deer and that's a giant in in its own , like I would . I would love you know that's . 120 is the hell of a deer .
Speaker 2You know , a dough is like we said , is a trophy on its own and some nanny does are just harder to kill than than a big buck . You know a big mature buck , um , you know . So I like what you said there , like , yes , horns don't mean it all . You know , meat is meat 100% , and that's why I love being in New Jersey , because you know what I can get my meat with just flinging arrows at does you know I can fill my freezer with a dough where then it's all right . If I pass a smaller deer , a smaller buck , then you know what . I don't have to worry because you're not done in a day .
Speaker 2I , I , I shot all my does and if I really need me , I'll go shoot more dose . You know , I shot a , one of my bucks from two years ago . I mean that that buck was . He was tiny but I , that memory of that , that that buck , is still one of my favorite , favorite memories , you know of a smaller buck that you know I'm glad I have the friends that I had because you know it was all good news and everything like that . But there are people out there that get the backlash for it and it's not right 100% and it's , it's unfortunate and you know it's . It's a very toxic . Social media and mainstream media , whatever it is , is just regardless , toxic and it is negative . As much as good as it does , there's a lot of negativity to it as well .
Speaker 1Yeah , and and there is and that's that's one thing that you know on private land . Obviously if it's somebody's private land it's a little different . Obviously you want to shoot mature bucks , whatever . But you know , when you , when you get that new hunter that's going out and they're setting up on public land and they're they're just trying to see a deer and they do , they shoot that little . That little forker comes out , little spike buff comes in , or heck , that buck that comes in , I don't care , that's a win for them . They like that increases to me , that increases their confidence level so much because they're like well , I must have done one thing right .
Speaker 2And that that's , that's yeah .
Speaker 1No , man yeah .
Speaker 2No , as you're saying , that's , that's 100% right and that's a question you know , you
Hunting in South Africa
Speaker 2. You , you learn all this . You know from your , your grandpa , your dad , everything like that . You know . Where did it go from ? Or has it always been like you and your family going out and just hunting not only just white tails but all different types of animals , and where'd Africa start rolling into ? I mean , first of all , I'm looking at a picture right now of your dad I believe it's your dad . Your dad's a wreck . Yeah , what a monster of a gator that's one of . Like I would love to do a gator hunt . That is one of them on the bucket list . Like , where did all this come from ? Like , has this always been there , or is that something that you guys just decided to start doing as you guys got older ?
Speaker 1So you know it's funny , you say that because , or even ask that because me and my dad were just talking about that today . So my dad he's been going on a lot of hunts . He went on a hunt before this but 1999 was the first time he went to South Africa . So you know , back when I can't , I don't even know Back when compound bow shot 150 feet a second versus you know almost 400 .
Speaker 1He went to Africa in 99 . You know I can remember always going to his house and seeing all the African animals and I mean I was a weird kid in that , like I love science and .
Speaker 1I was always studying the animals and like looking at them and you know why is this this way ? You know why did this happen this way ? Whatever , and you know hearing all these stories and as I got older , you know , the past six , seven years I've been able to go on these hunts more , you know , more established in my career and stuff , and it's been a really good way for me and my dad kind of to go do stuff on our own and not just deer , I hate to say , not just deer hunting , because deer hunting is amazing , but to go do other stuff and see other things .
Speaker 2No , yeah , and that's got to it's . Hunting is one thing , but you're , it's a bond , it's . You're spending quality time doing something that , yet again , not many people get to do chasing different animals , but seeing different things and experiencing , just , you know , the wonders of the world . You know , and especially in Africa . I mean , that is a that , those are some trips , you know , and if you , first of all , you and your dad have to , you're on a plane . For how long is the plane ride ?
Speaker 1Well , the I think total like travel time on the plane because , like , we will fly from Ohio to like Atlanta and then we'll fly to Johannesburg . I think we're on the plane . I don't want to lie to you but I think it's around 20 hours total on the plane , probably 22 hours into plane and in the airports .
Speaker 2So that right there load you and your dad . That's a whole lot of quality time , a whole lot of jokes , good memories , just in the airport . Slash plane sequence Whether you know delays this , I imagine . Yes , it's also a huge pain in the ass too , because you got to go through custom and everything like that . But when you guys get to sit back and look at it I mean the memories just with that alone before we get to the hunt , has got to be amazing and you got to appreciate that for sure .
Speaker 1Yeah , and see , that's the thing . I don't know if my dad really wants me to go hunting with him , but when we go through customs and go through the airports I tell him listen , old man , shut up and stay behind me . And we get through quick . It's weird .
Speaker 2That's funny , that's funny , that is funny . That's a good one . So we'll start with South Africa , since we're already talking about it . You get the long plane ride and , in the airport , run us through . How does all work out ? What does a South African hunt look like from step one Kind of run us , I guess , before when you start making the plan to then preparing for it . What do you need to go through ? How does this all work out ? And then the hunt .
Speaker 1Okay , well , there's a lot there . So , to start off , really it's finding a guide . That's the biggest thing , just finding a guide and finding somebody . That's going to be , I guess , helpful and make sure that you're going to be successful , somebody you like . The first time we went my dad actually he won the hunt through a silent auction for the White Tails Unlimited Banquet . So we got all that and it was set up for three or let me thank you three nights , four days of hunting and then at the end of the fourth day , go to the airport , fly back . We added some days , all that kind of stuff .
Speaker 1So wherever we first started playing it out , we were going to go through a travel agency and that was all great and dandy because me and him hadn't been that or he hadn't been to Africa in a while . I'd never been to Africa . So the logistics of the plane rides and all that's a little tough . So I called the travel agency and they're wanting to charge four or $500 more for flights than I can get them on price fly . So I'm talking to the lady and she's telling me everything I was like sounds like I can book this on my own .
Speaker 1She's like oh yeah , you can book it on your own . I was like , well , okay then Thanks . So she gave me all the information . I booked it on our own . The big things are is know where you're flying through the laws of the . If you're flying through different countries , the laws you have to follow there . So you probably don't want to fly through England . Their gun laws are a little different than ours . You probably don't want to fly through Newark , new Jersey , coming home , because New Jersey's gun laws are a little different than everywhere else in the country 100% true , it's annoying .
Speaker 1Yeah , you have to take those things into account . But so you figure out your flight and then there's kind of two ways to do it when we go anywhere . Where we went , I guess I should say the first time we went in 2017 , we stayed in like a hotel in Joe Hansberg , then caught a flight in the morning from Joe Hansberg to Polk Lone , which is like an hour from the hunting concession or where we were staying . The second time , we flew to Joe Hansberg and they came and picked us up , but that was also COVID type stuff and there's precautions and all that for the COVID . So , yeah , a little different scenario , but pretty much the same stuff , and I'm all over the place here . I'm sorry , I'm trying to remember it all , no worries at all .
Speaker 1So and before you go over there's paperwork , you have to fill out , for if you're taking a rifle , if you're taking a bow , you're good to go . We take our bows , but we also take our rifles as well , because a South African experience is riding in the back of a truck , cutting tracks and making a stalk on an animal . That is a huge South African experience . We both like doing that , so we do take our rifles as well . That's pretty simple though . You just go to customs I can't remember the form number . I'll look it up and I'll send it to you on Instagram but you take your rifle to customs , fill out all the forms , they red stamp it and they're like okay , you're good to go . You get to South Africa . You have to go through some paperwork with the South African police , all that stuff to get your rifle through . And then also on the front end , when you book with your said guide , they'll give you essentially I hate to say a wish list , but a wish list of animals .
Speaker 1So , whatever you might want , my first time going over my number one dream animal was an elant . I was like I want an elant . I really don't care about it in the other animals , I want an elant . And you write them all on your list down , you send them your list and then they try their best to get you on the animals , the best they can . They're pretty good because they live with these animals and the hunting concessions are large but 100,000 acres but they know where to be , just like we would know back home like , hey , you're trying to hunt a buck , go in this bottom . Every three days this buck will come through , what have you ? So on and so forth . So you do all that . You get over there where we go Wild game safaris phenomenal place All you can drink adult beverages . I drink quite a few adult beverages . Well , I mean , it was there . You know , every night you come back from hunting and you got a fire right there .
Speaker 2Of course , yeah . What is camp without it ?
Speaker 1Yeah , and it wasn't . It's amazing . I mean the fires right there , you know you're . You're sucking down the adult beverages and you're like , oh man , okay , maybe I need to slow down . I do have to hunt the morning the food . What's great is so if you kill an animal today , you're probably eating it for dinner .
Speaker 2Oh , I love it .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2It's amazing yeah .
Speaker 1It's so good , like I mean , I killed a blue wildebeest one day and we had blue wildebeest filets backstrap filets that night for dinner , like that's amazing .
Speaker 2That's amazing , that's amazing I don't know .
Speaker 1Yeah , I don't know what else to say about that , but it was like holy cow . You know it was awesome .
Hunting Ethics and Benefits in Africa
Speaker 1So you hunt every day . The way we hunted , we hunted over water holes . I don't know if you've seen some of the videos on my YouTube .
Speaker 2Yeah , so yeah , water , uh-huh .
Speaker 1They put out some bait and all that . So some people don't like you hunt over bait , but it's legal . It's legal .
Speaker 1That's what it is , yep . So then you're hunting . You get out there in the morning . You don't get out there like crazy early , like we would for deer , where we're in the stand , you know , two hours before daylights , even thinking about it , you get out there and ride that daylight-ish . They bring you a cooler for the blind all day . You got sandwiches , stuff to drink , so on and so forth . So you're eating lunch in the blind . That's the way we did it . We ate lunch in the blind . Then you get out right around dark , a little bit before dark , and you head back to the lodge and do it all over again .
Speaker 2So it's a it sounds amazing . It sounds like so much fun .
Speaker 1It really is and it's not like it's not that hard to do . It just takes some coordination and it takes going from I'm dreamed about it to you know I'm pulling the trigger , I'm doing it .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , no , definitely the only thing . Man that flight . I'm not a flyer . That's my only like .
Speaker 1I hate flyers , so anyone out there who's not ?
Speaker 2a flyer . I mean , that is , that's the only thing , but besides that it sounds like a wonderful time . Very well done . People Africa , south Africa , they rely a lot on hunting , you know they get a lot of money through hunting , through these trips and everything like that , so they really put on a show . If you know from what I hear and everything like that , so I can only imagine that it is top notch .
Speaker 1Yeah , and they do . They get a lot of money from it Because , I mean , everybody gets money in their hand when you go hunting in Africa , because you know from the outfitter or the guide leasing land or leasing the hunting rights to a certain property to , you know , buy in a tag for a black wildebeest when you got , when you got blocked by a I think it's a topstermit , it's a threatened or protected species permit , whatever it is you know that's extra money too and that money goes back into the economy there . So it's not like it's just just stays right there . It actually goes into the economy and it's used . And one thing a lot of people they don't they .
Speaker 1A lot of people don't like Africa because it's a meat thing . I got it . I understand you don't bring the meat home , but that meat it feeds a lot of people . It's not like you just skin the animal , leave , leave the meat way and you're like okay , next , like I said , do you eat ? You're probably eating that animal for dinner that night . That meat is going to be divvied out and meat over there or game meat over there . It's a resource that's sold on the economy . It's just like we would do beef or pork here they do giraffe , zebra , blue wildebeest , black wildebeest , white wildebeest , what have you ? It's sold on the economy over there , so it's it's a resource that there's a lot of money that comes out of one hand .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , and that's why I explained to a lot of people especially people don't understand how many I go . You're just basing it off America and what you see here I go , but most countries survive still off the land . Most countries don't have a McDonald's , a Burger King . You know five star restaurants to go to all the time or even have the money for it . So you know you hunt . Everything that you'll hunt you're eating . Nothing goes , nothing goes to waste . You know these animals , yet , like you said , they're not being wasted . Everything is being , is being used . That's how it works in a lot of other . You know a lot of other countries . You know you can go anywhere and you know probably Asia the same thing . You know South America , all these places that they rely a lot on animals and off the land , and you know where they . They don't waste . They don't waste the food , they don't waste the resources . It's a very valuable resource .
Speaker 1And most definitely and I think you said it like a lot of people , don't understate they look at you know the American type conservation practices and they're like , okay , that meat , yes , it gets eaten by maybe three or four people and that's it . It can't get sold , you can't do anything else with it . But you know , in other countries it's a huge thing . You know that can feed families and families and families for , you know , a year .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , definitely . And like you're , you're shooting , you're not shooting . These are big animals like look at draft , look at , I think you guys got a water buffalo , craig , a Cape water buffalo , I think it's called .
Speaker 1Yeah , Cape buffalo , yes , yeah .
Speaker 2Cape buffalo , you , you , you shot that . You shot a lot of . These are big animals that you know .
Hunting and Eating Game Animals
Speaker 2Even if you wanted to take the meat home , you couldn't . I imagine you can't really afford to take all that meat home because they're so big and it's so much meat that it has to go to the , to the village , to whoever is using it .
Speaker 1Yeah , no , it would be way too . I mean , if you look at like the Cape buffalo , for instance , that would be like transporting like a slaughtered like Angus cow or Angus bull you know from , from , you know , california to New Jersey , right , like how much would that cost ? And just imagine you have to fly it the whole way from South Africa to the States . That would , it would be so astronomical . You'd be like I , I can't even do this .
Speaker 2Yeah , no , it's that . That is the one thing that even even Alaska , when you go to Alaska or these big game hunts , it's so much money to transport all that you can only pack out . You know , certain much and same thing in Alaska I heard a lot of them they just give it to the locals and stuff like that . But what was your favorite you know animal so far that you've hunted in Africa and was able and ate in Africa ? You know , explain a little bit of the unique game species there and hunting them and eating them too , because that's I wish that we , that I would have the opportunity to go , do that Like right now . I would love to try draft or , you know , water buffalo or wildebeest or anything like that .
Speaker 1Yeah , so all the animals are amazing in their own way over there . You know , you've got , I think , a lot of people , a lot of hunters would know what a coo do is , right , that's like the elk of Africa . Yeah , we know what an impolite is . That's like the white tail of Africa , right . But you know there's some niche animals , if you will , that not a lot of people know about , like the black wildebeest , which is a white tail , new , whatever you want to call it , joker of Africa . It's got a bunch of different names .
Speaker 1That was one of the coolest animals to me because it was . It's so different looking , it looks to me , it's just so , it's kind of ugly but it's , it's just neat looking . So that that was really cool because so just just back up a little bit , most animals in Africa are horned animals , so they have , you know , horns . They don't have antlers like we would have white tailed here . I think the only one of the only animals that I know of I think I'll talk to my head that's got antlers in South Africa anyway , it was like fallow deer . But so they're all horned animals and you know they all have unique horns to themselves , like an Inyala see Inyala , elan , kudu and Bushbuck .
Speaker 1Those are spiral horned animals , so those are unique and their horns twist up , whereas , like you have , like a bless buck or Impala , they're like I don't know the proper term for it , but they're like ribbed . And then you get like wildebeest . They have bosses , which is like the big essentially knuckle on top of their head to I look like it's just a big knuckle . Then you have like Kate Buffalo kind of the same thing they have . They have the bosses as well . Probably my favorite animal , though over there , what's probably black wildebeest to hunt , my favorite animal to eat , and it's probably , it's probably the blue will to be just way it was cooked , gotcha .
Speaker 2Okay , okay , like preparation and how , the way you cook it . All these needs are just , you know , I imagine the , I can only imagine , like I'm trying to think of it in my head , of what these meals look like . You know , I bet it was all like five star and it's hard to dissect which is the best . Button to the blue , and it's funny that you would say that I didn't even know that they were blue . Will to be black . Will do like I just thought they were just wildebeest , had no idea that there was , I guess , a sub feature or whatever different variation of them at all . I had no idea , yeah .
Speaker 1And that's the thing you know . Some people don't know that . That's why , like every time I try to talk to my about Africa , I always tried to do a little education , not that I'm the smartest guy in the world , but what I've seen over there and the animals I have been able to hardest , you know I'm like , oh well , but this or this or this , and I try to explain everything because there are there's just differences in all the animals .
Speaker 2Absolutely Well . What was ? What was eating giraffe like .
Speaker 1So we didn't eat the giraffe . Actually they came and that's that's one of the ones that they take like straight to the meat processing plant , and they do it that way . I will say that .
Speaker 2Oh man , that is . That is one that just always been curious . I've , you know , I've watched a lot of hunts on them . Just absolutely enormous . What was it ? You know ? What did you feel ? How do you guys feel when you're looking at this thing and just the sheer size of it , like what ? What was going through your head before you were , before you were able to harvest an animal and pull the trigger ? Like the thing is just , they're a beast and don't they usually pick up like on these , or don't they usually pick like the oldest and oldest bull that they can possibly get , or something like that .
Speaker 1Yeah , they'll pick , like an old bull that may be trying to , you know , kill some younger bulls and try to mate with its daughters and granddaughters . That's actually my dad killed a giraffe the first year we went and that was that was a problem bull there Kind of the same thing .
Speaker 1It was trying to mate with its daughters and granddaughters and kill another younger bulls . And then the giraffe I was able to take it was , it wasn't as much of a problem , but it was getting to that problem stage . So they were trying to take that bull out of the herd before it became too much of a problem . And that was a crazy day because you know , we're riding around in the back of trucks looking for this . You know this 20 foot animal , and you think , ah , you'd be able to see that from everywhere . No , we , it took us like three hours to find this animal . I mean , we were on like 25,000 acres and we just we could not find it . We would cut tracks and then couldn't find it . Cut tracks , couldn't find it . It was ridiculous . We went up into this fire tower for lack of better terms , and it's something I wouldn't let my kids up in . But I was like , hey , I'm hunting , let's go . But uh , yeah , so we went up there . We couldn't even see it up there and I mean we're 50 , 60 foot in the air . You know um many a way we find we ended up finding him . Just , luckily we were . We were actually about to call it and try to go hunt something else and then , you know , come back another day and try to find him . But we like , kind of on our way out we found him , oh okay . So we cut some tracks , we got kind of behind him .
Speaker 1I had a uh 375 Ruger . It's a M77 Hawkeye , it's their African version or model , whatever you want to say , and I can remember laying it on . You know the shooting stick there and I looked through the scope of this giraffe and I knew right where to shoot . But I was like holy cow , I've never had an animal like take up the whole scope . It was huge , I don't know how else to say it . Like you know , because you shoot a deer with a scope , it doesn't take up the whole scope . You know you can see the whole deer just about . But that giraffe took up the whole dog on scope and you know , I remember , just like I said , laying it out there and I pulled that trigger . And as soon as I pulled the trigger I knew I was like I smacked him , he's done and he fell over within 30 seconds or so , something like that . But seems like a long time . Maybe it's also a big animal . It takes a minute for blood to stop .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , I can only imagine . I mean that's absolutely incredible . I mean I wouldn't even know what to do because it's so different . I mean I can only imagine when it's your first time there and looking at , you know these animals and you're in a whole different world . Basically , you know , when we're just looking at , you know the way that they just walk and every day and might fully experience from these animals . Are one a looking at YouTube videos of people hunting them or animal planet , you know , and watching just you know the shows of it's a , it's a rough way of life that these animals live . Like , hey , it's no joke being in Africa and everything like that , and for an animal to get that big and they're next to be that long , that just pure muscle to kill on is . I couldn't even imagine . Like , was there ever a thought maybe not that hunt or maybe another hunt that you had to do to do it with a bow ?
Speaker 1Um was so we had talked with the guide about using the bow Um , like for the giraffe . The kind of the issue , though , is um , you got to do it and do it right the first time , because if not , like he's had he said he's had drafts run through fences , like in these just thousands of acre plots like destroy stuff , just try to get away . So it really is thought to hunt it with a bow Um for the simple fact that the collateral damage that could possibly happen Gotcha .
Speaker 2Okay , all right , that makes sense . That's that's . That's . That is wild , though I mean it's not these things , I mean I believe it that they run right through the fences , destroy . You know , they're such big animals that you know they got to put in some serious , serious , serious effort . Um , now I see that the Cape Buffalo was shot with a bow . Is that you or was ?
Speaker 1that your dad .
Speaker 2Uh , so that was both of us actually . Oh yeah , okay , so both of you guys , um , uh , run us through that . I mean , that is when you're looking at probably the world's most dangerous animals . There's three that come to mind usually , and three of them are in Africa . Actually , it could be four . Yeah , I'm really maybe not thinking about four . You're looking at hippos , maybe five . Hold on , I may keep at it , because that's how many animals in Africa there are . Are there lines in South Africa ? I know in Northern Africa ? Yes , there are . Okay , so you're looking at hippos , you're looking at Cape Buffalo , You're looking at lions , elephants , crocodiles , right , yeah , and you can easily say that the first three , all of them , rival almost any other animal on the face of the earth .
Speaker 2And probably by far , by far the most . You know , I don't think a grisly , you know a grisly , a grisly's up there , but I , to get past those five , I don't . I don't really think there's another animal , but what ? And keep that , buffalo they are . You can rotate any of those top five anywhere in the in the number one spot , you know , usually like a hippo , cape buffalo . You're probably elephant , you're giving it to you lion , right ? So what was it like hunting a beast like that ? And just looking at them , they , the head is just pure , like . It looks like one of those old dinosaur heads , the ones that used to ram the head into everything . That just like all hardened , shelled , pure bone , very thick , dense bone . What was that hunt like ?
Speaker 1So that was . That was probably one of the only times in Africa I was nervous I won't say scared , but I was a little nervous . So we had we've done a couple of stocks . One stock we got on . We were kind of waiting for some buffalo to kind of walk through . They . I don't know if they went to the sauce , whatever , but couldn't make it happen , not a big deal . So we go up because we kind of know where they're going to be . We walked down this trail and I could hear the buffalo . They couldn't have been more than 50 yards from us but you couldn't see them and and you could feel them running around like the ground was shaking , it was .
Speaker 1I got so nervous then cause I'm like , yeah , okay , my dad's got a backup rifle , the other guy's got a backup rifle , like we're good but I'm nervous right now , like all I have is a stick in the string , like I don't know what I'm going to do with they all come over here , like if one comes , okay , we're probably all right , but if it's going to be numerous , this is not going to work out for us . So , ended up , they kind of they , they , uh , I think they winded us again . Um , not really sure what happened , but they kind of went around . So we got up ahead of them and that's when you know , we , we get up there , me and the guide , we get out of the truck . Um , we're walking and I go to come to full draw home One of the bulls and I could come to full draw cause we had to shoot 80 pounds
Successful Bow Hunting With Heavy Arrow
Speaker 1.
Speaker 1Um , I was shooting 80 pounds and right around 900 grain arrow . I can't remember the exact weight , but it was . It was a heavy arrow . Um , I was using tough head broad heads . Um , I can't remember the arrow shaft , but either way , it was like 900 green , broad head . Now I'm using my uh , uh , my Matthews verdicts , with the 80 pound modules on there , anyhow .
Speaker 1So I couldn't draw it . First time I couldn't draw . I was like , oh my God , what am I going to do so . I'm like psyching myself out in my head right there . I'm like , oh geez , this , this is not good , I can't draw my bow , I'm not going to do this . Like what's going on , and this is a matter of you know 15 , 20 seconds that I'm talking to myself .
Speaker 1So we , you know that bull kind of goes around , so we , we come over to the right , get on the trail and the bulls at like 20 yards we're kind of standing behind the trees . I come to full draw and I'm suiting , I mean in the heart . Uh , I couldn't shot much better . I hit him in the heart , you know , um , and what's kind of crazy . You don't really hear it in the video , but my guys was like , you know , he's a good guy . He's like hey , you didn't get much penetration on that Cause . The arrow looked like it hit and just bounced off , but what had actually happened was I'd hit the back of the shoulder and it chipped bone off the back of the shoulder and went through and hit the heart . So like I couldn't have snuck it in any better to do that and he ran 30 yards and just piled up and was dead . It was . It was crazy because , like I said , we all thought up no penetration . This is going to be tough .
Speaker 1That you know we got a wounded cake buffalo . This is not going to be good , but you know he was laying right there . He used us .
Speaker 2I mean , what was your heart rate at ?
Speaker 1I wouldn't even be getting a guess , because I'm sure it was , uh , I'm sure it was getting close to exploding , because I'm telling you I was , I was nervous , I mean , you have , you know , uh , almost 2000 pounds of animal right there that you know they , they don't give the nickname of black death or nothing , yeah .
Speaker 2No , that definitely not . And when did your death , when did your dad take his um , run us through that story and what was it like , kind of doubling up and you both getting , uh , getting one .
Speaker 1Um , so , uh , my , we , actually we , we got mine out of the field , um , loaded up , got it out of the field and everything , and we went back and , uh , we had some lunch and it was kind of a discussion whether we were going to go out that day again or we were going to go hunt something else , whatever , Um , but we decided to go back out . Um , we knew where the buffalo we're going to kind of be , because it was a bow shot . It didn't cause a lot of commotion , um , you know , getting in there , getting it out and everything . So kind of knew where the buffalo would be . We went in . Uh , my dad used my bow . That's one good thing about me and my dad . We shoot pretty close to the same drawling , so we , we can shoot each other stuff . So it's pretty nice . We don't have to buy one of something , uh .
Speaker 1But so we come up on these buffalo , um , and my dad , his was actually , you know , I hate to say , a quicker , easier hunt , but it really was in that we knew where the kind of buffalo we're going to be . He'd already seen me kind of go through some things , so he's like all right , cool , I just need to react to certain a little different way . Um , and he waited , using the same setup I was . He was standing there kind of like uh , behind the tree you can't really see it in the video , but where we were standing and he waited . He waited that buffalo step forward a little bit , open that pocket way better than mine did . And he hit it . I mean just smacked it . Um , I don't think he heart shot it , I think he double lunged it .
Speaker 1I can't remember off talking my head , uh , but yeah , his ran like 30 , 40 yards maybe and piled up and was right there done so his whole look , but it was an amazing time , like , him and I were both so excited because you know , we had talked in 2017 with the guide about coming back and doing walking stock cake buffalo with the bow , and you know the guy was like , oh , I don't know , nobody really does that . I was like , oh no , I want to do it . And he's like Whoa if you do it with your dad .
Speaker 1I was like look I was like if I weighed out into the river and try to catch cropped off my bare hands , my dad's going to wait out in the river and try to catch cropped off this bare hand . I was like this is a competition , you don't know .
Speaker 2Oh , that's great , and that's it's just great to hear . I mean , you got to love it . Um , what's it ? What's next for Africa ? Do you guys have any more plans for Africa ? Um , any more trips , trips , plan any Any animals that you haven't harvested yet and after that you still that are on the list of the truth , They'll want to get after .
Speaker 1Um , yeah , there there's , there's definitely animals on the list . Um , we've talked about me and my dad have . Um , we thought about going actually next year . Um , I just I told him that I really don't want to go to Africa . Um , for a while I kind of , let's start hunting more North American big game .
Speaker 2Um .
Speaker 1I know first world problems , right , like you know , I don't want to go to Africa anymore . I want to go do something else .
Speaker 2But I mean , but there's still so many places to go , also outside of Africa . I mean , and you've how many ? How many hunts have you done in Africa so far ?
Speaker 1Uh , I've done two hunts in Africa so far .
Speaker 2And your dad's done how many ? Uh , three times , okay , so five , five hunts total between you guys . There's still some other , and I get it because you know , at the end of the day , you , there's limited time , just like for for all of us , like then today , like I want to go here , here , here , here , and that's why for me it's like , yes , there there hasn't been a rush to go to Africa because I haven't hit on the things I want to do here , but I started now . You , you guys , have done already a lot in Africa , and now there's other big game species in North America that you would like to chase . So it's like a damn , we only have time to only do so much stuff , and it's we're not multimillionaires . So it's like , you know , we can't just go do it all . You know we have to pick and choose and hopefully you can eventually get it all . But as of right now , you know , yeah , I get it , so I get the . Hey , we let's , let's see what else we could do before we head back to back to Africa .
Speaker 1Yeah , and that's it . You know , don't get me wrong , africa is amazing , but that's really it . Like there's . I've started to expand more out West . I was hunting , like last year I went to Wyoming . I hunted crawler mule deer . I was unsuccessful , but everybody else I was with they at least got a crawler horn . And this year , just in May , I went to New Mexico . I was hunting Barbary sheep . I didn't even see a Barbary sheep , but you know , I was hunting in the mountains and and as I was walking through the mountains I was like man , like why have I not been doing this for the last 10 , 15 years ? Like why did I ? Why did I not do this kind of hunting ? Cause , really going to New Mexico and hunt like Barbary sheep ? You can do it relatively inexpensive . Um , you know , just depends on what , what you want to do as far as , like , staying a hotel , or you want to stay on the land , what have you , you know ? So yeah .
Speaker 1But yeah , I mean , and I just I find you know , going out West , like later this year I'm going to New Mexico for a mule deer hunt that I , that I was lucky enough to draw a tag on . So yeah , I just there's so much to do in the United States that it's like well , yeah , I could go to Africa again , but that means I could again first more problems here . I could only hunt , you know , white-tailed deer the next couple of years .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , no , and I , I , I , I , I , I'll get it . It's a it's . It's a tough , tough problem that that we face . Um , you know the pronghorns , what , what about ? I heard those . They're so fun to chase . You know , we've talked to a few people on here about it . You know everyone else was able to get one . You know , is that an animal you're going to head back for until you find success , or what ? Or are you going to try for something else , like what is the case with that and your experience hunting them ?
Speaker 1So I will go hunt Prowlhorn again . No question on that , like no question I'm . Actually I might go hunt them this year . It depends on the elk draw in Pennsylvania , but so I'm kind of waiting on that before I see if I can get a leftover tag somewhere . But yeah , prowlhorn , they were so much fun . I hunted in a unit . Very low success , very low public land , but , like I said , all my dad , his buddy and my buddy , they were all able to be successful . And I think I was kind of unsuccessful in the sense that I was kind of asking more as a guide than a hunter , because I wanted to make sure they were getting their animals . I wanted them to be successful . That's what I'm more about . To me is , everybody else is successful , don't be wrong . I want to be successful . But when I take somebody and they're successful , I'm like , oh yeah , heck yeah , I'm like you know , it kind of validates my planning .
Speaker 2It's a success in its own .
Speaker 1It definitely is , you know , because I did the planning for Prowlhorn . I did all the line . I don't know if you've heard of Go .
Speaker 2Hunt .
Speaker 1Yes , I have . Okay , so I use Go Hunt not trying to plug them , but I use them and I spend a stupid amount of hours on there using them and that's how I planned everything . And , like I said , it was just exciting to get up here and see new country , new animal and hunt Prowlhorn . They are a phenomenal animal . They're so much fun . They're just one time you can walk up halfway close to them , a couple hundred yards , and the next time , as soon as you step out of the truck , they're making a beeline . So you don't know , it's just . Prowlhorn are amazing . I love Prowlhorn , they're so much fun and I definitely will hunt them again . Like I said , I might go hunt them this year , but if not this year , definitely next year .
Speaker 2That's good to hear . I mean , hopefully , you know , hopefully you get the out tag , but if not , you know , hopefully , whenever you do you get a little bit of sweet revenge for yourself and get one down . So you know , I do want to touch , before I forget , your Gator Hunt . I'm obsessed with Gator Hunts . I'm obsessed with Gators in general . What was that ? What was that like ? Where was that ? Was that down in Florida ? Yeah , definitely was in Florida . Go through the Gator Hunt and , holy hell , your dad's Gator is massive . Go through the process of that and what that ? That's a whole different adrenaline rush . I mean , you're hunting some animals . That bad could seriously , seriously mess you up .
Speaker 1Yeah , so Gator hunting is a yeah , it's a rush , I mean , that's kind of a way to put it . So my dad has been a couple years the couple years previous with Gator Raiders , which he's become like a family friend . Now , dave , down to Gator Raiders , he's the guy down there and he's become a family friend , like we give them to your husband with him , with Africa with him , but anyway . So I went down there in 2018 . I graduated from a school for my job , so I flew down there before flying back to my actual , where I was in New Jersey , and so flew down there for a weekend hunt . My cousin , my dad and me . We were all down there . So my dad and my cousin . They asked her hey , do you want to hunt first or last ? I said , ah , you guys hunt first . I said I'll hunt whenever . I said it really doesn't bother me if I get a Gator or cool . If I don't get a Gator or cool , like not a big deal . So we hunt with them the first night and now it was .
Speaker 2I don't want to say I was nervous .
Speaker 1But it's pitch black on the water and you know you never really have to pee . You got to use the bathroom , right , and in everybody's seen these National Geographic videos of these Gators like leaping out of the water and grabbing stuff . So you got to kind of walk on the edge of the boat out to the kind of the back of the boat , so it's an airboat . So you're peeing outside of this boat and you're like huh , that's how I go , this is going to be it right here . This I'm done Like as a Gator snatches me . I can't do anything , you know . So you know that's kind of a funny moment , but it's something to think about when you're out there and it's pitch black . But so my dad and my uncle , they get , they both get like eight foot Gators that night . And then the next night we go out , we go to this lake and Dave from Gatorators he's like hey , listen , he's like the lake . Last night they had there was big Gators , he's like . But this late night he's like I'll tell you all , if you guys fall in the water he's like just drown yourselves . He's like the Gators in here is huge . So you definitely don't want to hear that going out on a dollar , one speed or a airboat . You know what I mean . There's a little nerf there .
Speaker 1So we go out and you know we're only out . We aren't even out there that long hour and a half , two hours maybe . We're speeding along and we find we see the Gator , we speed over to it , we throw some hooks out and we , you know , we hook it , bring it to the surface and you can see it on my YouTube page . I put a harpoon in it or a buoy , not a harpoon , a buoy and so , just in case it gets away , we can track it and be like , okay , there it is , it's still there , we got to go get it . Anyhow , we pull it up Me like a dumbass . I missed the first bangstick shot . I busted off the scoop with a 44 mag , like the little raised portion on the back .
Speaker 1I hit it in the wrong and just busted it off and , like this Gator , just got more mad . Like it didn't . It wasn't like oh , that hurt , it was like no man , I'm going to kill you now , you know . So it was a little crazy , but we so we reloaded the bangstick , get it all good , and I hit him good there , killing , got it done . We pull him up on the boat and you know we're taking pictures . My Gator ended up being 12 foot one inches , so , Jesus Christ , A pretty big Gator , right Like , not small , especially for like no , not at all Like even , even the , the dame down there , he was like I don't think you realize how big this Gator is .
Speaker 1I was like , well , it's 12 foot . He was like , no , no , no , he's like this would be like shooting a 200 inch deer . I was like , oh well , that's an perspective , right , like , because I mean it's , it's just huge . I mean , and the taxidermist tried to get me to get a half body mount no , I don't have anywhere to put . You know , six foot of Gator . And looking back , I wish I would have , but you know I just where he is .
Speaker 1So we , we pull it up onto the boat , you know , we get back to the well , we tag it , get back to the dock , we do the griffin grin , you know , taking pictures and all that . And what's crazy is right , probably , I don't know . I'll say , 100 yards from where we caught the Gator , there was this guy in this little John boat type deal , more or less a John boat , and he's come up and he wanted to look at the gator and he was like , did you catch that back there ? We were like , yeah , we just caught it right there . You know , hunter Yarger , I mean , he threw his fishing poles away . He's like I'm done . He's like I won't do this again . The gator , I mean I'm not going to lie .
Speaker 2If I was fishing and I did not know , and I was in a little little John boat and I saw that size of that gator , I think I want to ship myself out of bed , like you know what . This isn't for me . It's time for me to go home . I'm going to quit fishing , and yeah , because you know what . At any point , you know you , you never know what you're going to do . You never know what could have happened . But that's all within . But , oh man , I can only imagine the look on that guy's face when he saw the size of that gator .
Speaker 1Yeah , he was just in shock . I mean , like I said , he threw his fishing poles away . Like somebody was like , oh , you're embellishing , no , he threw them in the trash . Like he , he got them and threw them in the trash and we were like we even all look at it like what the heck's going on here ? Like I get it Like it's a big gator , but yo , man , you can go fish somewhere else , Like . But he's like I'm done , I'm not fishing .
Speaker 2You know , he's probably thinking that there's gators everywhere , which is all right , and Florida , there's just gators everywhere . I make . Maybe he was like an out of stator or just maybe moved to Florida .
Speaker 1Yeah , maybe and I don't know . You know I it was . It was a , you know , minute , minute and a half conversation . It wasn't long , you know .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , but so yeah we got that .
Speaker 1And then so my dad . He's been down a couple other times , always been down numerous times . My dad , the one year , shot or killed whatever you want to say a big gator was Chin six or 11 foot , something like that . It was a big gator , a big gator , and he , he used his trouble hook . It's it's tied on some 550 cord . It's probably dangerous as all get out right , but he's like I , that's what I'm using . My dad's like hey , if it pulls me in . He was like he pulls me at , what am I going to do ? I'm getting , yeah . So he , he shot . I wasn't on that hunt with him on that one , but the one you're talking about , the most recent one , it was 11 feet , 11 inches . He , he tries to squeeze an inch in on me and save his 12 foot , but I always remind him . So you got that . You got the bigger one .
Speaker 2Oh hey , that's that friendly , that's that friendly competition .
Speaker 1I mean you know father versus son .
Speaker 2I mean , I'm not going to lie , if I was him , I'd be like yeah , I think it's a , I think it's actually bigger , I think it's a 12 footer , yeah , but , but yeah , so it was crazy . But last year when he was hunting .
Speaker 1I think it was a little bit of a , a little bit of a . It was a little bit of a big , big , big difference . I mean , I'm not sure that he was on that one , but he was on that one , yeah . So it was crazy Last year when he was hunting it and I got the video .
Speaker 2I actually need to cut it up on Instagram .
Speaker 1I'm , I'm slow with videos . I hate , I hate putting them together . So but yeah , it takes so long to deal with it . But what ? Not to spoil it too much . But this one actually almost pulled him in this , the 12 foot Gator he got like when it pulled he came to his tippy toes weaning over the boat and I was like even watching it , I was like , oh , my God , did you know what I was like ?
Speaker 1what were you thinking ? He was like oh , I was bringing it in . He's like . I was like that was the gator .
Speaker 2Oh man , you guys , hunting with you has got to be a hell of a time . I mean just not only the hunt itself but the stories and the stories that you guys probably have that could tell around the campfire or anything like that . I mean it's got to be a memorable time . Maybe you guys should maybe start writing a book or something like that , because these stories have been great and I can only imagine how many more there still are to go .
Speaker 1Oh yeah , we got tons of stories . I mean we've been so many places that we could sell a lot of stories . I mean me and him , we don't tell many stories anymore because we were there , we experienced them together . Yeah yeah , we might be like , hey , you remember this . And then we start laughing about it , even if somebody's around . They're like what happened ? And you try to explain it to them , sometimes like why is that funny ? It's like what do you mean ? Why is that funny ? That's hilarious . Like you probably couldn't have done it .
Speaker 2And then what else the gators are saying is that a hug you guys play or you plan on doing again ?
Speaker 1I'll probably go down there again . It's not something high on my list . It's a cool hug to do for me . This is me personally . My dad goes down every year , but for me personally it was a cool hunt to do once , or do it a couple more times and that's it . It's more for me like going down there hanging out with Dave , hanging out with this family , hanging out with my dad and kind of just chilling in Florida just hanging out , I guess best way to say it . And so Gator hunt is cool . It's more fun , just , I think , for somebody else to catch them . I'm not big . If I get another one , great . If I don't , great .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , no , and I get that . I think I want to do it once . I mean , if I fall in love with it , then I will how continuously do it ? But I definitely have to experience it once for sure , and then another . What other hunts have big game hunts of you ? John , you've also killed a Black Bear as well . Where was that Black Bear taken at ?
Speaker 1So that Black Bear was in Little Canada Camp in Ear Falls , ontario . I shot him last yeah , 2022 . That's actually my first Black Bear , super excited about it . What was crazy was they sat me in the stand and , no sooner than the boat pulled off , from getting me in the stand and baiting the site , the bear just runs in . And I'm not even set up and ready . So I'm still messing with my camera , I'm still trying to get my bow set . I'm like what the hell is going on ? Why is this bear in here ? That's not how this works . So I watched him till dark . He was actually , when they came and picked me up , he was still on the bait at dark . So little creepy kind of crawling out , but it wasn't that big of a deal . Got out of the stand , got on the boat and rolled out . Second day second day same thing . That was been Sunday Sitting in the stand no sooner than the boat pulled off , here he comes and I was like , okay , I was ready for him that time .
Speaker 1He's got less than stuff on the stand for me to have ready . So I'd be like , okay , I know he's gonna come in early , I'm good . I watched him all night . Again , he was on the bait Whenever they came and picked me up . And all this time the river's flooding because they'd released the dam and the river's flooding and the guys was like , hey , you don't shoot that bear , tomorrow You're probably not gonna be able to get back in that stand . He's like it just is what it is . He's like the river's coming up three or four inches a day . He's like you're not gonna be able to .
Speaker 1I was like , okay , so on Monday , same thing that bear comes in and it's probably 415 , 430 . I was like I'm gonna wait . I was like I'm just gonna wait because tonight's the night the big bear comes in , I'm gonna wait , I'm gonna wait , I'm gonna wait . I waited like 40 minutes , was like , no , I'm shooting and I hitting . I actually broke the off-side shoulder . I'm shooting VAP TKOs . I don't know the grain of my arrow , but I'm probably , like , with my Muzzy Broadhead , the Muzzy Three-Blade Hundred Grain and the arrow , I'm probably pushing 450 . So like and .
Speaker 1I'm shooting a 70 pound draw with my Matthews verdicts and I blew right through , you know , and that's another video I have on my YouTube . But yeah , I was excited about that bear . I think what made me more excited was I knew , like I was like that's a 200 pound bear which I was like he's probably about five years old and we waiting , you know , gutted , wait , obviously he was one , I wanna say like 162 or something like that , so right around 200 pounds with , you know , ungutted , and then once I got the aging back , he was a five year old bear . So that's what really made me excited even more . After getting all that stuff back , I was like , you know , I was able to judge this bear and I knew what he was and I waited long enough . That the only reason I did you just bear . I wanted a bear , but I was really given no choice because the water was rising so much that it was gonna flood the standout .
Speaker 2Yeah , I mean , and that's still . I love a bear . I mean to do that . And it's funny how you expect to be sitting there and a bear not to show up right away . What are the chances ? You don't get that often right and then you're all right . You know most likely it's gonna happen , so I'm gonna prepare for it , but then it happens again and then it happens again . So this bear was giving you the opportunity to get the bear out of the standout . You got the opportunity . Second , unfortunately you have the water situation . But I mean a five year old bear , 200 pounds problem , like you said . A hell of a estimate , I mean . And a quick ethical kill that just blew up the back shoulder and broke it , I mean . And first , bear too . I mean hell of a bear , just the absolute beauty of a bear , for sure . I mean , how do you like the ?
Speaker 1meat . I love bear meat . I cook it . So I cook it in a crock pot I made like bear fajitas . My girlfriend she doesn't eat bear meat so I actually ended up giving a lot of it away to my buddies because I was like , well , I can't eat .
Speaker 1Yeah like four pound roast just to myself . So I ended up giving it away to them . We traded some meat back and forth so you know kind of make it even , but I gave it to them and they love it as well . I think it tastes just like beef to me . There's not .
Speaker 2It's sweeter to me and I love it . I mean I absolutely love it To me and that could just be also just through the bear than what they're eating and everything like that . Well , usually when I eat mine it's a sweeter meat , and that could be also because of the fat or whatever the situation is , but I mean I absolutely love it . It is a meat that , if you haven't tried it anybody , you should definitely try it .
Speaker 1Oh yeah , you should definitely try bear meat . It is a . If you didn't know it was bear , you wouldn't know it was bear .
Speaker 2Yeah , not a lot , I agree with you . But just like with a lot of animals , you wouldn't know if people didn't tell you . Like I tell people in time , like you wouldn't know that I'm giving you medicine . If I didn't tell you , you know , you would think it's any other meat . You know I could give you a squirrel and you wouldn't know . You know , and squirrel is to me a little tougher and a little gameier . But if you season that thing very well , like you're not going to tell , like you said , in a fajita or something like that , you know I like to do tacos , things like that , because that's also something where it's going to give it a lot of flavor . There's a lot of things going on , you know . So it's a people are , just once it gets into a pet , once it gets into the head , where they think of one thing , then it's over with .
Speaker 1Yeah , and that is it . You know , I've had people they're saying , just like you're saying like they're ah , you know , I don't like this , I don't like that . And then they come over , you know , to the house and I make deer burgers and they're like man , these are like the best burgers I've had . I'm like don't you don't like deer , do you ? They're like no , I'm like well , you do now .
Speaker 2Yep , I agree with you .
Speaker 1I've beat him to deer and love them , eat it and they like it .
Speaker 2Yeah , I mean it's one of the best meats you can really have . So I do the same thing there with just like you . And speaking of deer , I mean we have even gotten a chance to talk about deer just because of all the other thing that you guys have hunted and it's really exciting to listen to and hear you talk about . But you do quite a bit of deer hunting . You've killed some really nice deer you , your dad , the team . What's been your favorite deer hunt so far ? Or deer hunting memory at the camp , or whatever the case is .
Speaker 1So , believe it or not , my favorite deer hunting moment alone . How about that was ? I moved to New Jersey in 2017 . And it was going to be the first snow of the year and I told all my coworkers I had that day off . I was like I'm setting all day . I said I'm getting out there , it's dark , I'm leaving at dark . I said I'm sitting all day and I said if I sit all day , I will shoot a deer . I said I will . I said I've got him figured out . I know what's going on , Got it . So I do that .
Speaker 1And it was stupid cold , dumb cold . I started with no snow on the ground , ended up with like six inches after like sitting there all day and I was , I was froze , but I had a little deer come in it busted me up in the tree . I was like okay , cool , no big deal . And then I had five or six deer skirt from behind me and around me and I was so cold . I said to myself . I said the first deer that gives me a shot , that's what's one I'm taking , because I'm so cold , I need to get out of the stand . I don't want to get hurt . If I don't get out of the stand .
Speaker 1Like soon I shot this little button buff . And yeah , it was a little button buck , little yearling thing . But I was so dog on excited about that button buck because I was like , oh my God , I was like this is my first year hunting in New Jersey . I came out , I scouted this out , I put my stand up , I figured it out by myself . Yeah , it's just a button buff , but man , that's mine Like I did it , Like I was so excited because that was one of my real first times hunting , Just kind of , I don't say by myself , but like hunting away from people and figuring stuff out for myself .
Speaker 1Because , like back home , you know , I can go to deer creek and I know , I know where to hunt deer creek . I can go to some of the public land , I can hunt all I know where to hunt there . But like going to Fort Dix up in New Jersey , I was like , okay , cool , I'm going to go sit here , I'm going to figure it out . And I figured out , I was so excited to shoot that little button buck . One of the most memorable moments of my hunting career . I'll never forget it .
Speaker 2That's amazing and out of all of them , it definitely means a lot . It's got to mean a lot Because look at all the things that you've already accomplished and everything like that , and it just what year was this at ?
Speaker 12017 as well . That's the first year I shot in New Jersey .
Speaker 2And so you do that . You accomplish that first year in New Jersey . You know after that how long were you in New Jersey for .
Speaker 1I was there from 17 to 21 .
Speaker 2Okay , so for quite a bit . So after that , what else you know ? In New Jersey , you started to explore . Once you got the first one in the belt , you know , and you started to learn the land more and to do more hunting and everything like that . You know . And you know , like you said , new Jersey is one of your favorite places . For what else ? Where you went further , was it just the sheer dear numbers that you're able to see , the quantity that you're able to have ? You know what really set New Jersey apart for you . What was the instance that set New Jersey apart for you ?
Speaker 1So so a big thing about New Jersey like . So I lived on Fort Dix , down there I think , burlington County . So I lived on Fort Dix and , like I could , from my house to the hunting area was maybe a half mile so I could get off work and I could still get in the stand and have a great evening sit . And I think that's what really did it for me at Fort Dix or in New Jersey was I can have a great evening sit without , you know , having to do too much work but do too much work . And I knew where . I knew where my stand was and I knew I was going to go in . I may not kill a deer , but I'm going to definitely see deer and I'm going to have a good time in the stand . I'm not just going to be , I guess , just blunder , I'll say blown out but skunked . So I you know there , but I guess the sheer number of deer .
Speaker 1But also there was this , this one buck that I hunted for four years there . I had him on camera for four years . I saw him one time in the flesh and that's why I never shot a buck there , because I was always waiting on him . He was the biggest buck on the property . We called him kicker nine . He was an eight point and had a kicker off his G2 . And he was just a monster , like for there . He was probably . He was probably 160 inch deer . He was a big deer . You know . Some people might scoff at that and be like oh , you know , you go to Iowa and you know there there's a 200 inch deer behind every dog on corn cob right . But in New Jersey 160 inch deer is a good dog on deer and I was .
Speaker 1that was the hunt , that was the deer I wanted . You know it was crazy . I got all my buddies to get on it too and , like I would have been so excited if they would have killed him . But you know , nobody ever killed him . I hate to say I hope he died of old age , but I really hope he died of old age . I hope he eluded all those hunters because he was phenomenal deer .
Speaker 2Oh man , and I will say you , just , I love that , you . I can only imagine how many of the giants are out there in New Jersey and anywhere in the country that actually just died of old age . There's got to be a lot , right ? You know , and I'm just looking at the areas that I hunt . You know we love swamps A lot of . It's just so hard to get into that you really can't get in there . You know it gets to the point that what's only living there is the big , big boys and bears , you know , and what .
Speaker 2What these swamps hold and what New Jersey holds it's there is some just absolute specimens out there , and you know it's just it's not like Iowa where you have all these , you know all of them walking around , where you know , if you see a 140 , that's like a , okay , you know you're going to see plenty more 140s , 150s , but in New Jersey I mean a 140 , 150 ones , they're there . They're just going to be a little harder to find and you have to find them in the right area , you know , and you know it's just going to take , I think , a little more work in this state , you know , and even where , you know , when you're in Ohio's got a such a . It's a great hunting state as well . You know , I've heard a lot of great things about , but I heard .
Speaker 2There's just a lot of you know . There's a lot of pressure , you know , and a lot of people hunt out there and like PA and everything like that . So you know , we have the , we have the opportunity , we have the numbers , you know . We do have size , you know , but it's like you said , it's just not like you know what you saw . That's a hammer for New Jersey and of course you could go to Iowa or Kentucky or any of those states and see , you know , a deer that size plus bigger , but you know you got to . I try to do it by state by state , you know , and like , if you're going to Connecticut or Long Island , you know they're big deer there too . They may not be the same size as I was deer , you know , but they're big deer on its own .
Speaker 1Oh , yeah , for sure , and that's it . That's definitely it . Like you know , that's why , like that , that deer in New Jersey , like he did something to me , he got me , he was in my head and every chance I got I was out there and like I saw him in the flesh one time and he just he skirted my stand like 70 , 80 yards and he walked past my other stand that I had a . I was like , oh man , it's me . I was like I knew to set that stand but I got in there a little late . Well , and yeah , I just , but you know it is what it is , but New Jersey I loved it because , like I said , I could get out in the stand quick .
Speaker 1I'd be out there , I'm set up and good to go and it was a good time it was . I knew I could get an evening hunt in and kind of decompress from the day .
Speaker 2Yeah , no , I definitely get that . I'm going to ask you a few more . We're going to be hitting the time soon . We even get there . There's just so much to go over .
Speaker 2You know , I definitely like to get you on maybe you and your dad on it If you guys would like that but we definitely got to get you back on . We even get a chance to talk about the upcoming season or anything like that . You know , talking about South Africa was honestly one of the coolest things I've gotten to talk about , and I love all the conversations on our podcast , but talking about South Africa it's unique because we don't get it actually ever . So you'll be the first one . So you know we'll have to next time , talk a little bit more about your deer season and everything like that as well .
Speaker 2But I got a few more rapid question , kanye , our portion here for you . Okay , so , and you know if you and this is always harder to ask where people have already done a lot of cool stuff , but since you haven't really done North America like that yet , I feel like I kind of have an idea of what your answer is going to be . But you have your dream hunt . It could be anywhere . You have two week time limit . What and where would it be ?
Speaker 1First off , it's a mountain goat with my bow , Probably probably in Alaska , Alaska , Columbia . Mountain goat with my bow , yeah , mountain goat sir . Oh God that's the animal for me . I don't know why , but it's dead , it's gone .
Speaker 2So much , so much you . They are so hard to get and you know those hunts are absolutely amazing , just watching them , that you know Alaska just offers so much . But the goats and you know the mountain goats , you know the sheep then you can get big horn , rams and other countries like our other states , like sheep . They're just so cool , they're just so unique and you really , you really got to work for them . Yeah , but that's a good one . That is the first one for the . I put goat and sheep down . We have this thing where we're keeping statistics for the season and what our guests say . So sheep and goat putting them together . That'll be the first one for that this year . Non-typical or typical white tail deer If you can only shoot one .
Speaker 1Oh , you know I have like . The non-typicals are cool , but you have to go with a typical . I think I love seeing a very symmetrical deer . There's something about it . It's like , yeah , all the junk on a deer is cool , but like seeing a symmetrical deer walk out like you just every kind of even it's like that's just , that is a white tail you know , I agree with you .
Speaker 2I agree with you . I can't get past that . What's your favorite time of the year to hunt ?
Speaker 1If you could only pick one week to get out in the woods .
Speaker 2What would it be ?
Speaker 1Probably the week after petrol stay . That's typically the rut .
Speaker 2Good time . Good time and that's a hard question , because it's not a hard question . But to get it down to a week because , like my mind always goes , there's so many , just like different time frames that are just so great and so unique , but you know , anywhere in the rut or that early season , I think is you're really going to hit the nail on the head .
Speaker 1Well , in the great , season there's a Kentucky and like Missouri that's usually rifle season two , so you will rifle hunt the rut . So that's huge .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , yeah , then for us . For us it's still bow Because guns season isn't until after , but we , you know , but you know that what ? What's your favorite hunting condition ? Is it a little bit of rain ? No , what , what ? What are you really looking for For forecast for your hunt ? What's the temperature ? You know what's the forecast look like .
Speaker 1Cold and snowy . Yes , yes , I just I feel it sucks . It's horrible , sit like you're cold , but I found when it starts snowing , the deer will move , usually all day . That's just what I found . That's in my experience . Somebody will probably agree oh , that never happened , but that's happened to me so no , I will agree with that for sure .
Speaker 2If you could get sponsored by one company , right , what would that company be ?
Speaker 1Wow . Hmm , I can get sponsored by one company . What would that ?
Speaker 2company be ?
Speaker 1Wow , that's a tough question . Probably probably Matthews . Yeah , matthews , because I get . I get a new bow at least every couple years anyway .
Speaker 2Yeah , definitely for sure . What is your go to ? Tree stand or hunting snack ?
Speaker 1Oh , my pin Oatmeal , cream pies or windmills or P-Codmills or whatever they're called .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , yeah , I know exactly what you're talking about . If you're given $2 million to spend on a hunting property , what state would it be on ? And or where would you , or where would you get it ?
Speaker 1$2 million spend on a hunting property . It'd be in Texas , and I would say that because there's a lot of free range exotics in Texas and you can either hunt them all year long .
Speaker 2Yeah , gotcha gotcha and you know it's one of those states that offers a lot , but also you get a lot for your buck , Because the reason we did this question before and I can't remember what the I think we did like $500,000 and we're like , well , that's not going to get you really much like , say , in a state like New Jersey , you're not going to get really you're not going to really get anything out of that .
Speaker 2You're going to get a house with no property right , you're not going to be able to get much . So we upped it to $2 million , and for bang for your buck in Texas , $2 million you're going to get a lot of property also too with that as well , and there's just so much to do out there and to hunt out there . If you could only hunt the North America or South Africa , which one would you pick ?
Speaker 1North America . No question , what do you think your dad ? Would say man I'm stuck . I'll bet he'd say North America , because he's a huge black bear guy .
Speaker 2Okay , gotcha , gotcha . He probably would say North America , and this is a two-parter , basically because we live two options . You hunt with your dad a lot , so you might not say you're dead . But if you could hunt with one person you know , you could pick one family member and then one person who's famous . It could be anyone dead or alive , like as someone back in the day . We just got on the podcast I just did recently . You know they said back in 800 years ago with the Native Americans and everything like that . We've gotten some interesting answers . Who would you hunt with ?
Speaker 1Wow , so truthfully , I would hunt with my favorite president ever , theodore Roosevelt . Yeah , that's a good one . I would go to the dark continent with him and I would hunt with him .
Speaker 2I love it . I love it . Yeah , that's a good one . You can't go wrong . Like he's been mentioned , fred Bear has been mentioned . Obviously there's been a lot of guys , people have said famous actors and stuff like that but that's a good one . What hunting shows do you usually watch ? Do you watch hunting shows ?
Speaker 1I don't watch many hunting shows anymore . I used to watch , like Ted Nugent's , spirit of the Wild and all that , you know , the mystical flight of the arrow , all that kind of stuff . But now there's so much YouTube that you can stream , light it to what you really want to watch . So I've watched a lot of YouTube hunts .
Speaker 2Is there who's your favorite YouTube hunter to watch ?
Speaker 1Randy Newberg .
Speaker 2I don't think I've watched it . Let me see if I have . I've watched so many that sometimes I'm just scrolling through YouTube and looking up new stuff to watch .
Speaker 1Randy Newberg's awesome . Him , and actually Corey Jacobson , got me on the GoHut kick and I started listening to one of their well , their podcasts and I was like , oh my God , like I just started getting the itch . So yeah , I watched Randy Newberg a lot , a lot of his videos . He hunts .
Speaker 2Oh yeah , I know .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2That's cool . Okay , yes , I've all right . Yeah , I watched this and I you know what we'll ask one more here . You know I got to make this a good one . We've had so many ones that trying to think of something new that I haven't asked yet . Let's see , what do we got ? I can't think of anything new right now , but what is your goat ? What are the top five items in your hunting kit or in your hunting bag ?
Speaker 1So , for both seasons , my top five items . My Ozonix rangefinder obviously , Probably I have zip ties in there . That's one of my top items . Yeah , so you the zip ties you can use for anything A roll of hockey tape .
Speaker 2Oh , good one .
Speaker 1Yeah , hockey tape . You know all those silence strips and everything people sell for like $20 a foot . Yep , you can buy hockey tape and do the same diagonal thing and hockey , very true , $3 . Yeah , so hockey tapes , huge music for courties and everything , and then probably I have my number . Five would probably be I mean leaving out water and stuff like that . You know what it would have to be my phone . I know it sounds goofy , but just checking weather conditions , checking to see what time deer should be moving with the moon phase and all that stuff like that .
Speaker 1So I'm playing games , I play games .
Speaker 2Listen , you should see me . I'm on either on Instagram . I'm playing games , or I'm watching football or sport .
Speaker 1I'm a huge like on Sunday .
Speaker 2I'm a huge football like . I'm a huge fantasy football player , so like I have to be in the woods on Sunday , like I can't not hunt , but I also need to know how my teams go at doing and fantasy football . So I am , I am on fantasy football and I also I listen to a lot of podcasts . I get a lot of podcasts done in the in the tree , like I just pop a headphone in my ear and that kind of like downtime where you most likely there really isn't much moving . You know you may get a little bit of movement , but nothing like crazy . So it's like you know I could afford to one side .
Speaker 2You get that sweet time , that sweet hour . I'll take it out and then I will start beyond full blown attention . But you know you got to do sometimes , sometimes to pass the time , you know , and I do , I do enjoy , do enjoy bringing the phone or I even bring a book and I even read sometimes Like if I'm doing like an all day sit , I'll read a nice book while I wait for some deer . But I believe I want to thank you so much for coming on . It was definitely a pleasure getting on and you know talking to you . You know any last words .
Speaker 1No , I just appreciate you . You know , give me some time to come on talk with you . It's been a lot of fun .
Speaker 2Yeah , no , it was man , I had a , I had a ball . It's so cool just hearing about you know the different things and you know you're you and your dad's connection and all the last and memories and these really cool hunts that you guys have been on and can't wait to hear more what you guys have in store . And you know , hopefully we can definitely get you back on again and you know , do some more talking , because I can only imagine you know how much more stuff there is out there .
Speaker 1Oh , yeah , for sure , yeah , anytime .
Speaker 2Yeah , definitely . I want to thank everyone for listening to this episode . Go check out the link below . Their Instagram is going to be down there , their YouTube page is going to be down there and if you got any questions regarding any type of big game hunt worth for any African species or alligator or bear or anything like that , feel free to hit them up . They know what they're talking about . They know what they're doing . They could definitely help you out . If you got any questions or anything like that , go check them out . Thank you , guys , and we'll talk to you next time .
