Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome back to the Garden State Outdoors and Podcast presented by Boondocks Hunting. I'm your host, mike Nitre. I'm Frank Mestico, steve Molnar.

Speaker 2: 0:21

Welcome back to the Garden State Outdoors and Podcast presented by Boondocks Hunting. I'm your host, Mike Nitre. I'm Frank Mestico.

Speaker 3: 0:28

Steve Molnar.

Speaker 2: 0:32

And Austin Woods. Steve, take it away. A big part of this is because of you. You know I am very excited for this, very interested about this. We talked about Austin I don't know if you listened to our episode with Zach from Noct, but we did mention you and we did talk about the help that you've been giving him and everything like that. So, like I'm actually very excited because, leaving off on that episode, I was like this is something I want to do in the future. This is the plan and I think this is the ultimate goal moving forward for anyone when they they want their own private property and then they want to, you know, manage their own private property. So you know, steve, I'll let you. Let you take it away first.

Speaker 3: 1:15

Yeah, yeah. So, uh, we have Austin Woods with us. He's from upstate New York and, uh, austin and I kind of developed a relationship this past year just on Instagram, just in DMs and whatnot, and he's been super helpful in helping me with the little microplots that I've been trying to get going. And I kind of put it to him this year I was like listen, I've tried this twice. I've tried to do microplots the past two seasons. I feel like this is my make or break season. If I don't get this to work this season, I'm probably going to give up on it, I mean at least for the short term. So, give me all the tricks, give me all the tips and I'm going to put 110% 15% into getting this done so that I can actually have a successful year. So, austin, I really appreciate everything you've helped me with so far. I guess a little bit of background. First, tell everybody who you are and what you're about your experience in hunting and then we'll dive deeper into the food plotting.

Speaker 4: 2:13

Yeah so I'm Austin, I have the social media page, the handles on all platforms are the Woods with Woods, all platforms are the woods with woods and I mean, I've been, I've been involved in the outdoors pretty much my whole life Starts, you know, way, way back as a, as a, as a young kid. My family originally all from West Virginia, so it was kind of a kind of like a cultural thing at that point. And you know, in that area of the country, um, grandfather was, uh, you know, my mom's side was a big hound hunter, um, and then my grandfather on my mother's side, you know, just a, just a whitetail guy, could care less about anything else, just loved, you know, whitetails. So I kind of grew up in the middle of all of that, I guess, and found, like you know, happy medium where, you know, I just like being in the woods and doing everything, you know, equally so, the, and then the property that I have is actually my grandfather's on my mother's side. He passed away several years ago.

Speaker 4: 3:26

Several years ago, and before he passed away, we had this idea, we started this, you know, little little area that we were going to incorporate and ultimately continuously expand year in, year out.

Speaker 4: 3:34

He actually never got to see any of the fruits of that labor. He didn't make it to that first hunting season, which was, you know it was a bummer, but then, at the same time, it ended up becoming, you know, this motivation, this, this fuel to like all right, well, like now it's got to be perfect every year, year in and year out, like if he didn't get a chance to use it. You know, I'm going to use it, but I'm going to use it at the capacity that he would want to see it as, and so that just became like a big, you know thriving, factor into, you know, creating this pot. You know my uncle has been, um, a big help in, in, you know, financially and work wise. It's just, it's a lot to you know. Take, uh, you know, at the time trying to think it wasn't very big, it was less, it was far less than like a full, you know, full acre.

Speaker 4: 4:28

And you know, now we're pushing the boundaries of you know three acres that are cleared. Probably you know an acre and a half to two acres that are plantable at this moment. We've got, we got a machine, we got an old backhoe, but previous to that everything was just chainsaw and hand rototillers and you know there's a lot of work that went into it. Um, it's. It's definitely not for everybody, I mean, whether you have private property or not. Like there is a like there's a season within a season within a season for everybody, everybody's like all right, we're gonna go scout, and that starts, you know, in june, july and august.

Speaker 4: 5:10

Well, I've been, you know, working in my plot since last week, two weeks ago, you know. I started my season then. So there's a, there's a bunch that goes into it. There's a lot of money involved in it, um, and, and more importantly, there's a lot of time involved in it, and I mean any. I don't mean this the the wrong way, but anybody can do it. It's just how much you want to put into it is what you're going to get out of it, and that seems to be, you know, the determining factor with a lot of people.

Speaker 4: 5:42

Oh, I thought I could just go throw some seed out there and get some stuff to go. You can, but is that what you want? Is that your goal? Do you want you know you want deer to just walk by and browse on that, or do you want to have a nice area to, you know, have deer to stop and hang out for 10, 15 minutes? Get the video footage, get the trail cam pictures, get the, you know. Hey, that's. You know.

Speaker 4: 6:07

That buck's going to get a pass this year. He's a little bit too young, you know. You get time to look beer over that way. You know there's there's a lot of benefit to it and we can't, we can't bait, we can't supplemental feed in New York at any point throughout the year for any reason. I understand their logic behind it. That's a story for a you know a different book, um, but uh, so you kind of make do with what you have and that's that's kind of the route that we went yeah, and that's very interesting because I mean we're very much the same way here, boondocks, where I I mean for lack of a better term it's endless season.

Speaker 3: 6:45

I mean everything rolls right into the next.

Speaker 3: 6:49

And I found that the past two years as soon as it was done, I was trying to get you know something going with food plots, or we're trying to get ready for turkeys, or there's something else there happening and I found this year, just like yourself, two weeks ago, I started getting the ground ready in our little area and I mean it's small, it's maybe a tenth of an acre, it's tiny, but it's something to start and you could probably speak to that as well as far as people that are starting out in this, starting small, to reap the benefits of success without getting overwhelmed.

Speaker 3: 7:23

Because I feel like these seed companies, I feel like it's really I see a lot of them and they do make these throw and go varieties of seeds, heavy on clover brassicas and things like that, and there is this expectation in their advertising of oh yeah, no till. We see that a lot. Right, we're not a lot, but there's definitely a few companies that come to mind and that's their whole shtick is okay, no till throw and go and they make it sound like it's really simple. I can tell you from my limited experience I've used those companies' seeds, and not that their seeds are bad. Throw and go really is. I don't want to say it's a myth, but it's not how they purport that.

Speaker 3: 8:08

So maybe you can speak to that a little bit. Yeah, so when?

Speaker 4: 8:11

you see, no till. That means that they're not requiring you to haul in a piece of machinery like farm tractor or rototiller and till the ground. You don't need to do that is what they're telling you that this seed is for. But every seed, whether it's the seed that you're planting you know to fill in the bare spot in your yard from where you know your dog peed there, or the seed that you want to get to grow in the back, you know in the backwoods plots it's there has to be some seed to soil, contact there has to be.

Speaker 4: 8:46

You can't just broadcast seed on the top of the forest floor and expect it to just grow. There has to be seed, has to get covered with dirt, there has to be some sort of moisture, whether it be dew, frost, rain. There has to be something, be something there. Seed by itself just doesn't grow. That's why when you open up, you know a bag of seed, a jar seed, whatever. There's not stuff growing out of it already, because if seed just germinated like that, then you know you how, how would you store it? So there's, there's got to be something there for seed to grow onto, to grow with, and that's where you know the throw and grow gets a lot of people.

Speaker 4: 9:29

It really should be minimal work and go like minimal work and go like, yeah, I think that would be more honest so for like a throw and grow to work, like you know, I would always say okay, well, like a throw and grow to work, like you know, I would always say okay, well, regardless of the area, get a leaf blower, blow off all the leaves, expose the bare soil.

Speaker 4: 9:50

Get a hard metal rake, rake the top layer of you know dirt, down to that, you know quarter inch, you know, and you know. And that also depends, you know, the depth also depends on what you're planting. Certain seed varieties and certain certain things grow at certain depths or better, at certain depths. You know, for most throne grow, it's a quarter of an inch. So that's just, you know, taking a metal rake and roughing it around and then, you know, broadcasting the seed and then going back over that area with the back of the rake to kind of now move dirt over top of seed. And that's probably, you know, obviously it's subjective to everybody, but that's the way that I would say is the correct way to apply. A throw and grow seed is minimal work. You don't need a tiller, you don't need a tractor, but you know, at minimum you need a rake.

Speaker 3: 10:40

Right, yeah, absolutely, and that's been things that we've talked about as well and that completely tracks. I think maybe the next topic to move into which natural and natural progression is this time of year when people are wanting to get started and they're in a piece of woods that's definitely more remote, that has a lot of canopy in the late spring, early summer and throughout the rest of the year. What is the best thing for them to be doing right now? You've thrown around terms with me and with other people frost seeding, getting that seeded now, this time of year, before the canopies developed, and how that's going to determine success so real quick before you guys start that.

Speaker 2: 11:24

That is so funny that you brought that up, cause I literally just wrote that down in my notes because I have. I eyed an area where I've been going over in my head. Is there anywhere where I can do this? And one of Bianca's spots it just it was the perfect rut area this year. It was honestly amazing. There is a thicket not too far away, but the little quarter acre is would be the perfect place to do this. And my thing was, man, I've always heard like you need sunlight, you need sunlight, you need this. What if you don't have that? So I actually did just write that down. What would your recommendation be for? You know, something with minimal sunlight or something like that. So it's funny that steve you rolled into to that question right away so.

Speaker 4: 12:15

So to just just straight up answer your question, establish it early. So establish it before the. You know the the foliage every year, um, one of the things that, and and the term frost seeding, um typically only applies to clover because of what it is, um clover mix I used this year as a five-year perennial, meaning it comes back every year and it will come back for the next five years. Um, so there'll be, you know, a lot of overseeding, which ultimately means just seeding over top of existing foliage. But so, frost seeding, you get it in the ground early. You in in the shaded areas that you know that during the spring and the summer months, where you, when the time that you're trying to get it to grow, aren't going to have, uh, isn't going to have a lot of sunlight, you get it in the ground early. The way to do that is to frost seed it. Frost seeding is you taking advantage of the temperatures in the day and at night, going from freezing to above freezing, back to freezing, back to below freezing, throughout the day, throughout the night, and it creates just tiny little micro fractures, and it's just basic science. I would say that things get cold. They harden up when they start to get warm, they expand and the soil does the same thing, creating like little micro fractures so it eliminates the you know happen to. You know go back over it with the rake to get that seed to soil contact. Nature kind of does it itself. You broadcast the small, tiny. You know.

Speaker 4: 13:59

I don't have a jar with any clover seed left in it, but clover seed is extremely tiny, it's very, very small.

Speaker 4: 14:05

So that just works it into the soil naturally and it takes a, you know, labor aspect out of planting, you know, this time of the year, but it also in the shaded areas. It also allows you to get a root system developed before the canopy starts, because even plants that need the most minimal amount of sun still need some sun. They need some sun, that is just all. Plants need some amount of sun for the most part. And, like I said, the way to get your small little hidey hole area that you know that quarter acre that you really just need something to stop in the middle of and just take a bite while you're, you know that quarter acre that you really just need something to stop in the middle of and just take a bite while you're, you know coming to full draw. Those are the areas where you know you get it in early. You get the root system established before there's a massive canopy change and then throughout the rest of the year the developed root system is going to thrive is, is going to thrive.

Speaker 3: 15:09

That's awesome. Yeah, and that's last year when I was putting in and I I used domain seed. Last year I put in some no bs and I put in, uh, some hot chick, and I put it in in june because that's for the, for the region, for the zone, that's what it was suggested, but I wasn't thinking about canopy at that point. I put it in the soil, I did all the prep leaf blowed, raked it out, raked it back over, uh, overseeded a tiny bit, just to you know, just for protection, and it came up great, and within two weeks after it came up it was gone because there was no sun. So it was a prime example right there. I mean, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: 15:47

And you know you used Hot Chick right this year.

Speaker 3: 15:51

This year. So yesterday I actually just seeded yesterday because we're getting like an inch and a half of rain today. So it was like perfect, you know, perfect equation. So yeah, comeback Kid and Hot Chick.

Speaker 4: 16:08

And a tiny little bit of the oats from no BS. Yep, so they're, they're. They're both perennial mixers. So if you get that, if that, or if that root system gets established early on and clovers are pretty hardy plant to begin with. You know people that enjoy nice lawns spend lots of, lots of money to get clover removed from their lawn and it typically takes an extended period of time to do that. So it's a hardy plant and it definitely grows very well. But the mix that you combine right there is a five-year perennial mix. So it's going to continue to establish itself over the course of the next five years and easiest way to maintain it which would be at this point for you, I think, would be to let it grow. Maybe April, may, june, maybe in June come in and weed, whack the top quarter inch of it off quarter inch of it off.

Speaker 3: 17:07

And so what's the? I've heard that before as well, and especially when it comes to agricultural settings not being a farm, but any of us being farm boys growing up here. What's the idea behind mowing um tonnage after it's grown to a certain point? What's the theory behind that?

Speaker 4: 17:20

it'll, it'll grow back faster oh okay, you know, like tomato plants, you trim your tomato plants in certain areas, you know other areas will leaf out and bush out Trees. If you top trees, the size of them start to take all of the growth. It won't get any taller but the sides start to get growth so you'll increase. Like you said, you'll increase tonnage Because if you look typically and there might be a lot of scrutiny for this, I'm not 100% positive but if you typically look at a plant, you have a main stalk and once you top the top of that main stalk off, everything else tends below that cut line. Everything else tends to leaf out below because it's no longer taking nutrients all the way to the top of the plant, whether it be an inch and a half or, you know, 40 feet in the example of a tree, it doesn't have to take nutrients all the way to the top, so it allows nutrients to go left to right, so to speak so you're going to find the clover or brassica or whatever it is that's planted.

Speaker 3: 18:25

You're going to find more, um, sorry, horizontal or you know, more out outgrowth, more mass in the footage okay.

Speaker 4: 18:36

Yes, now there are certain things that you're not supposed to do. That too, like if I, if you went in there and planted a bunch of turnips, that would not be the way to get the turnips to grow bigger. There are definitely things that you should just leave alone to let grow. Clover is one of the ones. You want to mow at least once or twice, gotcha.

Speaker 1: 18:56

Okay, yeah, no, I just actually. I find that actually kind of interesting because when I was doing my food plots upstate on our family farm we lived in well, our farm's in Sullivan County.

Speaker 4: 19:12

That's where I'm actually. I actually live in Sullivan County.

Speaker 1: 19:15

Oh, do you? Okay, we're like right next to like Monticello.

Speaker 4: 19:19

Basically we're like 20 minutes from there.

Speaker 1: 19:21

I'm in Liberty, so I'm like 20 minutes from Monticello well, come in from there, I'm in liberty, so I'm like 20 minutes from myself. Yeah, yeah, so I actually I always, every time I did my food plots up there, I would always go by like what it said on the bag. You know about the time of year, but every time I'd plan, let's just say it said july, but come like september. Sometimes it was only like I would you know, it'd only be this big Browse pressure. I wasn't. Yeah, I wasn't sure. If it was, you know, I would fertilize the shit out of it. I heard put in you know, lime on it. I've tried that. But there was one little secret that actually the farmer next to me would. Actually he came over one time and actually mixed eggshells in it in the, in the soil itself, and told it over, and when he did that it made like a big difference. So did you ever hear anything about like how like that actually helps the growth?

Speaker 4: 20:19

I mean there's a, there's a lot of, there's a lot of things that'll help soil condition, you know, just overall, like eggshells are one of the things that typically people compost and turn into compost. Eggshells, coffee grounds, a bunch of things that you know. There's a bunch of things that you can do. Sometimes, when you're spraying spray fertilizer, you know based on the ratio of you know water to fertilizer you're using, or how many you know gallons, you can add just regular table sugar, sugar from your table, your cabinet, you know, and that'll that'll do things. Um, you know lime helps soil condition. It turns sandy clay soil into, you know better soil over over the course of a long period of time.

Speaker 4: 21:06

Um, I could totally understand and see why something like eggshells would, would work. Um, there was an immediate effect to that, like year in and year out. Like like so, one year you put eggshells in and and that did great. I mean that's, that's pretty cool. Yeah, that might be something that I, that might be something that I look into. Yeah, I mean, go ahead, go ahead. I could. I just definitely could see that over the course of, you know, over the period, over the course of time, something you know, continuously adding eggshells year in, year out and what would help the overall quality of the soil? I can totally see how that works.

Speaker 1: 21:48

Yeah, because I noticed a big difference when I didn't put well, when we didn't put the eggshells in, compared to when we did, because the deer would hammer it as soon as he would, you know, put those eggshells in and we would tell it over before you know. The stuff even got a chance to grow. It was just hammered with deer, I mean all hours of the day.

Speaker 4: 22:09

They were in there all day, basically yeah, so don't quote me on this, but I believe that also eggshells are some sort of deterrent to deer themselves. I've heard that being something that people would use and mix into areas like similar to like Irish spring soap. I know people that would hang Irish spring soap around their vegetable gardens as deterrents for deer. Like I said, don't quote me. I believe that you know somewhere along the lines that I I had heard some sort of so two things about eggshells and coffee grounds being deterrence for deer?

Speaker 2: 22:56

two, two things about that. Um, one, eggshells are really high in calcium, so that's probably why it helps. You know, plants and everything like that grow to supposedly, because I just looked it up. Um, it potentially could be because they don't like the smell. Now I don't, yet again, I don't know how true that is. Um, one post is saying um, the myth is that, uh, you put eggshells in your garden or whatever, and it repels them because the deer don't like the smell now yet again.

Speaker 2: 23:25

I've heard that before. Okay, I yeah, and it's kind of like, if they are high in calcium, I would figure that regardless of the smell, they would probably like eat it or something like that because of its height. Like I'm pretty sure I heard of when people have chickens and chicken coops, they take the eggs shells and they crush them up and they mix it into their feet and everything and they actually will give it back to the chickens because it's so actually beneficial to the chickens. So I imagine it would be the same thing for deer as well. But, like you know, it is a pretty interesting, interesting theory and it might be a theory that like, oh, we might just have to start testing that you know more often that that's pretty good.

Speaker 3: 24:07

It's pretty unique for it for, like, if someone's using food plots and and stuff like that when my, when we were growing up, my my father is a barber by trade and my mom's a beautician and he took care of a lot of different farmers and when they would come in, his surefire trick was actually giving them human hair and they would good, they would go and they would spread human hair all throughout their garden and that was a big deterrent for deer actually. So, yeah, the same farmers a couple times a year, coming in, getting huge bags of other people's hair and going and spreading it out in their garden and in their fields. It was. It was pretty interesting I've heard.

Speaker 2: 24:48

I've heard dish soap uh, wow, my god, dish soap too as well. Um, for for like a garden. You know, I would you know for garden and stuff like that. Um, but it's, it's pretty interesting. What you know repels deer, what doesn't?

Speaker 4: 25:03

um, we can go on this theory for for a very long time too as well, but you know what it's, until we find something that's scientifically concrete, like one of the big tricks that I use, especially covering a large square footage area, like like a food pot, is just um, being able to run string from tree to tree and then being able to take another one anywhere from like two to three feet behind that, because deer don't have that depth, depth perception.

Speaker 4: 25:33

So they could see that there's, you know, there's a string here, there's a string here and they could see that there's a string behind it, but they don't know how far away that string is. So they they have a tendency to not attempt to jump over it because they don't know how far that back string is, and that's worked in in certain areas before. But they're also like, if they want in it, they're going to get in it. Whether you got an electric fence up or a string, or you spray dish soap and human hair, you know know, if they want it, they're gonna go get it. So you know there's, like you said, there's a list of Millions and millions of things you could try to do. But yeah, they're hungry.

Speaker 2: 26:14

And I'm imagining you know something you said earlier If they're just real quickly passing through and grazing or actually like staying in there, I feel like if they're staying in there, they're more likely to, hey, we're just gonna go for it, we want in this, in there. I feel like if they're they're staying in there, they're more likely to hey, we're just going to go for it. We want in, this is where we want to be. Um, we're kind of, we're accustomed to this area, so, like that, that's where they want to be. Like, I imagine, maybe a deer just passing through, they might not take that that jump of jump of faith and and you know something like that and really risk it or or whatever.

Speaker 2: 26:42

But you know, I feel like your, your deer, that you have locked in there. I think they're just going to go for it at any time. But, um, on that specific topic, you know, when you're, when you're coming up with the food plotter, micro plotter, whatever you want, what are some things that you're looking to do to your, to your property, to keep deer in there, not just having them pass through, graze real quick and leave where you can actually have them, like you said, set up. You can record them for a little bit. You can, you know, maybe get your shot off. Whatever you need to get what, what are you looking to to set up and what recommendations can you give for that?

Speaker 4: 27:18

um, square footage, you know what I mean, like their um area, big area, but uh, uh. So actually let me rephrase that um, a large amount of forage in a semi-big area. Um, meaning that you want to keep even if you're I mean so, my thought always goes back to the eastern deciduous forest, like that is the environment that we hunt in. I can't speak on what somebody would want to do with that in southern illinois or iowa or or Kansas, when they're coming up with a food pot because they're doing it and competing with thousands and thousands of acres of cornfields and soybeans and and all of that stuff you know. And then here, you know, we're competing with tons and tons and tons of acorns and, yeah, everything else. So when I look for things, I look for them based off of, you know, this area, so to speak, and I want to keep a small, tight area that's going to produce a ton of forage, meaning there's deer going to be in there all year. They're going to eat it, but there's still going to be. You know stuff growing, so they're going to eat something from June, july, august, and then there's something're going to eat it, but they're still going to be, you know stuff growing. So they're going to eat something from june, july, august and then there's something else going to be coming in, on the same plot that they're going to eat from september, october and november and then even into, you know, the late season when they're going to be digging up the bulbs, getting the, you know the sugar from the sugar beets and all of that stuff. So that's kind of of what I'm looking for. I'm just kind of looking to spread it out throughout the three main seasons that you know you're going to want to get eyes on deer.

Speaker 4: 29:06

You know early season hunting and then you know middle and late season hunting is is different. You know the deer are doing different things. They're looking for different food sources. You know in the winter they want the sugar and you know in the winter they want the sugar and you know in the spring they want you know stuff that's going to, you know, help antler growth and protein and you know help fawn growth and all this other stuff. So that's kind of what I'm looking for.

Speaker 4: 29:30

I want to keep it. I don't want to. You know I want a big area. Acreage is fine. The more acres the better. That means you can plant more stuff. That means you can plant more stuff. That means you're gonna handle more browse pressure. But you also don't want to be walking through the woods and then open up to a eight acre cornfield like. That doesn't provide those deer with that sense of security that those previous hundred acres of forest behind them do. So that's one of the things you're looking for. You know a small, tight area that's going to be able to produce a ton of forage and still keep them secure, keep them safe in in that area, and then you know there are ways to do that with. You know seed mixes. You know screening plots is what it's called people use. You know screening mixes it's. You know swiss grass and you know all different kinds of stuff that's going to grow. That you know seven, eight up to 12 feet tall and you know keep them safe and secluded that way too I don't know.

Speaker 2: 30:35

That's. That's perfectly said and pretty interesting and I, I like, like that you said that, like you want to give them a variety of things and give them options so they have a reason to stay there. You know, and I think that's a big problem that a lot of people have, not even if you're doing plots. But you know, if you're looking at an area or hunting an area, you know you want to find where it gives everything and not just for that time of the year where you know you're you're talking about the early season. Well, yeah, deer, their early season for a reason, right, if it doesn't give them what they need.

Speaker 2: 31:09

For you know that rod or or the late season, or whatever, those deer that you've been watching, that buck that you've been chasing and hoping to slip up, you got to go find where he's going to be going next, because if you, if there isn't everything that has to offer there, he's moving, like he's straight up moving, you know.

Speaker 2: 31:32

So you, you kind of want to integrate that when, if you're doing plots or whatever the case is and I like how you also said that too, like a lot of people, when you're thinking about food plots they're talking about oh well, you know we need to have 100 acres of corn or we need to have 100 acres of this, and kind of forget that, you know, maybe knocking all of those woods down or whatever that natural cover to as well, which is extremely important. That's what you really need, and I like those plots where you can, you know, can make it out in the middle of an area and it's like all right, well, now they have the variety, now they have the cover, they have multiple escape routes, things like that, and you're building a perfect habitat, especially if you get some water, or if there is natural water there too as well. I mean, imagine that that definitely helps, helps your property, uh, a hundred times I mean overall habitat improvement is, is is key too.

Speaker 4: 32:37

It's not just you could have the other 80 acres around it in the condition that it needs to be, that you know that food plot is not gonna do as much as it's not gonna be as good as you want it to be, because those deer are gonna be traveling where there is a place to bed. Those deer are gonna be traveling where there is water, there is. You know, there is a cover and an additional food source. So it's just it's overall habitat improvement. Is is what makes a food pot successful in my mind. You know, you know, being a steward of the land and a woodsman plays I think it's a lost art in in this, you know, you know, in in 2024, where it's real easy to just pop up on X and look at, you know, look at a map and say you want to do this, this and this. I, you know, I. I think that really plays a big part in in it, knowing you know.

Speaker 4: 33:34

Knowing what trees to hinge cut. You know where. Where am I going to make a bedding area versus you know why here and not there. You know, I think all that plays a big part into making you know your food plot successful, I guess.

Speaker 3: 33:49

Yeah, it's kind of an all-encompassing nature too. I mean we talk about all the different aspects of it. You know, a lot of people get into hunting. First they go pick up a weapon, they get proficient with it, they go in the woods they try to harvest an animal. And you know, here at Boondocks I feel like we are trying. Our tentacles are literally going out everywhere. You know we're butchering our own animals, we're scouting, we're trying to become better woodsmen with woods craft. This is just another element of it, Like you said, being true conservationist, managing not just the animals but the land that they're on. And I feel like in Jersey especially we just spoke about it recently when we had Gerard on from Rat Getter Because of the baiting and how that pertains to New Jersey and the other states that are out there that allow it.

Speaker 3: 34:35

Now there's a philosophy change with people that are trying to do food plots, and maybe that's something that you have some experience and can speak to. But I mean, are you, if you have an established food plot and you have the tonnage and you have the square footage, are you, do you think that you're still going to be able to compete with people that are baiting? All your neighbors are baiting around and are they going to seek out that food over the easy food, Because I mean just just regular. If you think about humans, right, If we're looking for, if you go back to the caveman days, you know there we're going.

Speaker 3: 35:15

We're killing animals. We're eating the fat because it's it's quick energy that we can consume, and it's the same thing for animals when it comes to carbohydrates, corn and things like that, soybeans it's that fast, quick energy. I know that cows, for instance, when they're foraging that's the big thing with all of the pasture-raised beef nowadays They'll go and they eat the different types of clover and things that their body needs, to the point where they're literally healing themselves. I would have to imagine deer the same way, because the amount of browse and different things that they consume I get maybe I'm answering my own question here, but I would I would have to believe that if you're able to change your own mind and philosophy on doing food plots that we could possibly at some point just get away from baiting altogether.

Speaker 4: 36:10

So I don't think anybody can compete with a bag of bacon J's.

Speaker 4: 36:18

I really don't, I really don't think that big and jays, like, I really I really don't, I really don't think that. I mean, I like, I think there's just some of those things that you know, some of these companies that produce antlers in a bag got figured out and they, they know that doesn't matter what's on the other side of the creek, that they're going to come here and that's why they make it, you know, I mean because there's a market for it. If it didn't work, uh, you know, there wouldn't be. You know, big game attractants. You know, in my opinion, um, because at the end of the day, it's baiting is big. I mean, trust me, if, if I could sit over a big old pile of apples and it was legal in new york, I, I, I would, you know, I would do it, but I can't. So I, I gotta do it, but I can't, so I got to do it my way.

Speaker 3: 37:06

Just to clarify, I wasn't.

Speaker 4: 37:08

If there were 100 pounds of turnips that was grown in the field and 100 pounds of Big and Jay, do I think my 100 pounds of turnips would beat that? No, but I think that if all five neighbors had two acres of turnips or sugar beets, or barascas or clover, I think there would be a better chance to beat that bag of you know, whatever, whatever it might be to beat that bag of you know, whatever, whatever it might be.

Speaker 3: 37:44

Yeah, and just to clarify, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with baiting. Oh me neither, you know. I'm just saying that for any any of the companies that are out there. I have to imagine it's a multimillion dollar industry out there and there's. There's nothing wrong with it. I'm just saying, if we're talking more about conservation, stewardship and all of that, and that's the direction you want to head, you know, I think.

Speaker 4: 38:05

I think everything you're doing, everything we would like to try to accomplish, is a great path as well because because don't get me wrong I would still love to be able to run a couple hundred pounds of whatever the you know high nutrients, you know stuff in a bag is out to the middle of the food plot in the middle of January and February and dump it out and say, here, have at it. I would love to be able to do that, not even during hunt season, like I would love to just be able to give that. I mean, anybody in the world can do with extra nutrients, right, anybody, anything, everybody could always benefit from that. So I would love to be able to do that.

Speaker 3: 38:50

Yeah, you were telling me that in New York you're not even allowed to put that out at any point in the year and that has to do with EHD and the other diseases. Yeah, communal community.

Speaker 4: 39:00

I mean it makes sense. I mean it makes sense. It's like I said, that's a different story for a different book, you know on. You know that's a rabbit hole, but you know it makes sense and I understand it and got to compensate for it, I guess, so to speak. So you know, that's kind of what we did.

Speaker 1: 39:23

Yeah, and like, especially at our place, like upstate, I noticed it was always it was hard to compete with, like the acorns, so basically all our deer that come out of our woods.

Speaker 1: 39:31

Because, like, we own most of the woods around us, so a lot of the deer would come out of our woods. And that's actually why I would set up my food plot almost in a transition, because our, their main, their main feed was our next door neighbors, which he had, the corn, the clover, so I would actually basically plant something just to get them to walk through, you know, almost kind of push them where I wanted them to. So that way when they were eating or whatever, I'd get a few, you know, a few minutes to get my shot. But what I really found out is they wouldn't really do that every single time. So how I used to set up was I found that the woods and the acorns was where it would be. So that's why in the morning I would always get in the woods before they got there, knowing that they were out in the neighbor's field feeding and waiting for them to come in. Because, no matter what it is, they were always in those woods eating acorns all day long.

Speaker 4: 40:37

Yeah so acorns are a big thing. I personally have no hard mass on the property that I hunt None, no white oak, no red oak. So we took it to the next level. We got some apple trees, grew some raspberry bushes. Some of those things grew some raspberry bushes.

Speaker 4: 41:05

Some of those things um, is that the difference maker? No, but it's just another, just another food source. You know, it's just something that you know we could just put out there, that's, you know. Hey, there's. You know, to me I like, I like. I said I I don't see, I don't see having more food sources for them to have as a problem. So if I could take 20 minutes and dig a hole and throw an apple tree in there and know that in five to seven years it's going to develop some sort of apple and they're going to be able to eat that, that's fine for me. I can live with that, versus taking 20 minutes to haul a bag of whatever feed in the ground. I'm doing something more productive anyway, planting trees and doing something good for the environment, exactly, it's all about building that deer buffet.

Speaker 3: 41:57

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 4: 41:58

That's really what I'm doing, but I I'll let everybody, I'll let everybody think I'm doing it, for for all of the reasons, I think you know this is.

Speaker 2: 42:07

This is why I tell people about baiting. You know that kind of goes back, as long as it's legal, whatever is going to help you give an advantage and you know and and get it done. And I I like how you said that like if you could you would still throw it out in the food because because why not? It gives. You know it's, it's, it's extra, it's extra food list, especially during those hard winters, like they're gonna take every little thing that that they can get, so like why not? I I understand why upstate new york does it. I understand why you can't beat in npa and like some of these states and everything like that.

Speaker 2: 42:42

But you know for the people that that sit there and complain like, oh, that's not real hunting. I don't see how that's not real hunting because at the end of the day, when you look back of all through our ancestors, they did everything that they could damn. We had native americans running buffalo off of cliffs, right. So how you do anything you can when you're in a survival situation, it does not matter how you get that meat. As long as you get the meat, your body does not give one rat's ass if you shot it over a bait pile. It doesn't like, it doesn't matter. Your body needs nutrients, we need nutrients, we, and that's really about it. For those, all those guys you know they're oh, they're meat hunters and everything like that, but they don't believe in baiting. Well, at the end of the day, your, your body, doesn't care like my food.

Speaker 4: 43:37

Is food like what? To me it's almost like what's the difference between walking in on a big two-acre oak flat in the middle of the woods or taking those acorns that you got from that oak flat, putting them in a five-gallon bucket and walking them a mile and a half back to your tree stand and dumping them over there. What's the difference? Those deer walking through there eating acorns, whether they're eating them here or they're eating them out of a pile over here or they're eating them Well, and I've mentioned this before too on other podcasts and conversations, and I always think it's like to Mike's point.

Speaker 3: 44:15

I think it's hilarious that some guys will sit there and say, well, no, you shouldn't be hunting over bait pile, that's unethical or that's too much advantage. But they're just fine to go sit on a field edge of corn or soybeans or whatever and hunt over that, and it's what's the difference? I mean what's? There is none.

Speaker 1: 44:33

There is no difference.

Speaker 3: 44:34

There's not, you know and it's a, it becomes a pride thing at that point 's like if you want to do like I can't be, I can't I might have lost them for a second.

Speaker 4: 44:48

I think so yeah we'll give it a bag. You know what I mean? It's just a different kind of bag. Yeah, yeah you know, that's true, you know, it's just a different bag, it's just, that's all it is.

Speaker 2: 45:03

Well, if you also want to talk about advantages too, it's like, okay, like so you're using a high powered rifle with with the scope, or you know, we're using crossbow, we're using a compound bow, like we're taking every advantage. People go get brand new crossbows and compound bows and guns and the newest you know scopes, all this stuff. Well, it's like you're taking every advantage to harvest that deer or whatever animal you're going for. So if you want to talk about that with with corn, well OK, then everyone should just shoot traditional. There should be no or with the spear or something like that.

Speaker 2: 45:42

Like let's no more. Can we use a crossbow, a compound bow and a gun? Like let's go back to really how it used to be. If that's what you're going to say, like when we're small game hunting, you got to bring a slingshot with rocks Come on people.

Speaker 2: 45:59

We take every advantage we can. That's why these companies make a lot of money dropping new products every single year, from trail cameras to to the clothing, to to whatever, to boots man, back in the day those boots were so shitty if they even wore. Wore boots, boots they, they really did it, you know, native american they, they built their own stuff. Their clothing was all, all you know, created themselves from, from animal skin and fur and everything like that. So, like I, I hate that, I hate that excuse. Oh well, it's cheating and it's not ethical and you know that's too much of an advantage because it's like, okay, buddy, you put down your, your hard-powered gun and your crossbow and your compound bow and, just you know, use your hands or your knife.

Speaker 3: 46:44

Yeah, seriously, I mean and and that's my favorite, always my favorite, whenever I see go on Instagram or YouTube and someone's killed a super nice buck and it's in a baiting state and they show the footage of them shooting it over bait and you always have a handful of guys there sitting saying nice buck, but the bait pile really killed it. For me and it's like why does it matter? And I think a lot of times it's like well, are you envious or jealous that you can't?

Speaker 4: 47:14

hunt over bait too.

Speaker 3: 47:17

That's the reality.

Speaker 4: 47:19

That's exactly what it is. It's just like and also nice is nice, buck is a nice buck exactly, anyway, exactly 100 I've said, I've seen bucks get hit by a car and go.

Speaker 2: 47:33

That's a nice buck yeah, I'm still taking I'm if your state allows it, like we do in new jersey. If I hit a nice buck or a doe, I'm taking that deer, I I am, we're legally allowed to do. I think we just have to call, call it in or whatever, and I think we could tag it and listen, I'm, I'm calling it, I'm not letting them meet, it doesn't matter, you know it's. It's also like a lot, of, a lot of these states that allow, say, baiting. It's also hard to do a plot If you're hunting only public listen. At the end of the day, if you're not on a piece of public or whatever where you can do it, then you can't put in a food plot or not.

Speaker 2: 48:16

Everyone, a lot of people do not have access to private property. A lot of people don't have access to can go out and buy their own property and stuff like that, like so we have to now hurt other people and, you know, help, you know, affect them not getting a deer or getting meat or or whatever the case is, because they can't, you know, get on a piece of private or they can't come up with a food plot or whatever the case is. Hey, maybe this is the case is because they can't get on a piece of private or they can't come up with a food plot, or whatever the case is. Hey, maybe this is the only thing that they can do, you know what. So they're going to go throw a bag of corn out.

Speaker 2: 48:48

Now, I'm not saying I use corn, right, I do. I also like to hunt without it and try to harvest deer not using corn as well, and to using natural stuff and everything like that. But listen, if I go shoot a deer over corn like I really don't care, cause at the end of the day my, my freezer is going to be full, it's going to be one hell of a story. I'm going to have a time that the guys are going to come help me out, drag and everything like that, and we get to talk about it and we get to have fun and we're doing what we love, so it doesn't really matter. And one more thing on that topic dogs. I've seen a lot of people oh, it's unethical to use dog. It's unethical to use dogs, yet again, if it's legal.

Speaker 4: 49:29

I got to sit up for this one because that's one that.

Speaker 3: 49:32

I take a lot of pride in Is it.

Speaker 2: 49:37

So do you when we OK, so that's a bear.

Speaker 4: 49:41

Yeah, that's a bear killed out of a tree over a bunch of dogs.

Speaker 2: 49:46

Whatever way is legal. I think you know, I know a couple of people that use dogs to for deer and everything like that. Hogs, bear. First of all, bears. I could talk about bears. Bears are very in New Jersey it's a lot easier, but when you go to big states like Maine, like upstate New York, hunting bears is not easy, especially because you guys same thing you guys cannot bait for bears. You know PA, you can't bait for bears. So that takes a lot of out of it.

Speaker 2: 50:19

And, yeah, you could be like oh'm gonna, I'm gonna hunt natural food source, but the whole land could be a natural food source for bear. Like you know to to pinpoint a bear it's very difficult. So we're, you can use dogs as long as it's legal. What's the problem? Yet again, native americans use that. You know people in europe that, that they use dogs for foxes and everything like that. So like, using dogs has always been a thing. We use it for pheasant hunting. So why is it okay to use it for pheasant hunting but we can't use it for bear hunting or we can't use it for deer hunting?

Speaker 4: 50:50

it's the lowest. It's the lowest hanging fruit on that anti-hunting, anti-outdoorsman tree. It really is because of the I'm going to call it the over sensitive. It's just over sensitive of what a bear is, because for the longest time bears were bears. And then you know yogi bear popped up and build a bear popped up, and now a bear is a big, soft, fluffy animal that everybody wants to to pet and hug. And no, look at that cute little thing. And that's not what a bear is.

Speaker 4: 51:33

And then you add, you know dog into the picture. You know fluffy, the house Chihuahua and Sparky, the family's Labradoodle. Like they can't unclassify things, a dog is a dog, whether it's a you know a plot hound or a you know a Chihuahua, it's the same thing. But you know people not being able to understand that. You know something like a, like a blue tick, blue tick, like a walker. Those dogs were trained to, bred to specifically for years and years and years and years and years, to hunt, game animals. That's what those dogs in their dna. So it would be like telling you knowhorse that, hey, he can't race, you got to go sit in the barn all day, just like those horses are bred for that years and years and years and, like I said, coming from a hound hunting background, my grandfather in West Virginia is known for bears and bear dogs.

Speaker 4: 52:40

You go to where I'm from in western india and you ask somebody and say, who would I talk to about they? They'd point you to him and they'd say go talk to that man over there. And it's honestly. If you were to say, austin, take, take the food plots, take the white tails, take the rifles, take care of what's the one thing you want. Left alone, it would be pound honey. And that's what I would say. That's my take it or leave it thing. Leave me this. I don't even need a weapon. I just like listening to them run, I like listening to them work, I like seeing it, I like hearing it, I like that whole process at the bottom of the tree. And let me be on my way that I care less if I killed another two. I ever kill a 200 inch deer and none of that stuff. Just leave me the hat on. I'll take that and be perfectly fine with everything else being gone, but leave me that one I'm really interested to hunt with with a dog like I.

Speaker 2: 53:48

I would, I would love to, I would definitely like to do a hog hunt with dogs. I listen, I would definitely even do a bear hunt with dogs or a mountain lion hunt with dogs Like I. I'm down to try any legal method of hunting, right, if it's legal. I'm I'm so down to try it and, you know, trying new experiences. That that's that's also, it's what we live for. Like, this is the different style, it's a different adrenaline rush.

Speaker 2: 54:13

You know also, listen, dogs are I, we love dogs, but that's the connection. You know, we, the dogs, are doing what they love. We're doing what we love. It's, it's a bond and you know, whatever, whatever happens, if you, if you harvest that, that animal, if you don't, like you, you're you're watching your dogs work. I imagine you're super proud of watching these dogs do what they do and it's like when you get on a bear or a deer or a hog or whatever. That's like all right, like it's like watching your kids, you know, accomplish something too. It's like it's a very proud moment and you know it. I can only imagine what it means and I'm definitely interested to. You know, try, and I definitely do want to try that at one point.

Speaker 4: 54:54

It's an adrenaline rush like you've never experienced before. I mean, I can't speak for anybody else, but I know that it was. The first time was a crazy adrenaline rush, and then every every other time after that, just whether I had a weapon or a camera to take pictures, it was just as exhilarating. And I've never personally owned any dogs, but just you know, just being there around it and pretty much growing up around it for a long time it was, it's definitely a one. I mean, I could talk about that for forever. Um, you know, that's one of the things that I can go down on a rabbit hole, so so it sounds like we're getting you on for another episode specifically for for hound hunting I like it.

Speaker 4: 55:39

I like it. Yeah, it would be all talking about that stuff forever and uh, you know what I mean.

Speaker 3: 55:44

It's definitely, uh definitely fun well, and it's a good, it's really good perspective too. You know that you mentioned as far as how people have changed their viewpoint on bears. Not only that, but you have people that are literally trying to erase thousands of years of tradition, breeding and all of that to suit their own emotional worldview, and that's the problem with that, and it's you know. People are choosing not to take into account the things that have been and they're trying to forge their own path forward, and that's what's unfortunate. But this isn't the only topic that we run into these things.

Speaker 4: 56:24

Yeah, I mean, I think that's the case with. I mean, there's two sides to every coin. Everybody has. There's an, there's an opposing to every coin, everybody has, there's an opposed, there's an opposing viewpoint to everything. Yep, so I, you know what I mean. You kind of, I kind of take it, as you know, with a grain of salt. And, yeah, do every, I mean everything, just like, oh, like you said, whether it's baiting, whether it's hound hunting, whether it's, it doesn't matter, there's an opposed, there's an opposing viewpoint to it. And I, I think the most important thing to do is just like understand, educate, but keep it moving at the same time. Just be like listen, you got your thing, I got my thing. They coincide, they, you know, they bump, they clash a little bit. That's that's fine, that's supposed to happen like that. That's how it's supposed to be.

Speaker 2: 57:20

Well, it's one. Well, I'll say one more thing about this before we get back to the plots. But that it's supposed to be like that. You know, and I think we're in the era right now where you can't have a different belief or or or view than somebody else right now, and you know you're ripped apart for for believing in something different. But you know I I was at work yesterday, you know I I love my co-workers. They're great and they're really understanding for for what I do and they're very open to it. Like a lot of them will try the game meat that I bring in from bear to to duck geese deer, like they try it all.

Speaker 2: 57:52

And I was talking to two of the teachers and you know they just asked me they're like how, how do you feel, like after you you shoot an animal? Like how, how do you like we look at it as like, oh, that's a cute animal and stuff like that. And I I honestly this is what I tell people I love animals. Just because I hunt does not mean I love animals. I think it just shows you that I think I love animals a little more because there's a huge management portion to it. I also love eating, you know different meat and everything like that. But they specifically asked about coyotes. I'm like, oh well, do you do you think of as a dog? And I go, honestly, yes, it is a dog to me, but I can't think in that mindset. I can't think of, oh, my God, that thing is so cute and so fluffy and, you know, I want to just give it a hug, like you said on the bears, like, yeah, bears are, but I'm not. I'm not thinking that I have to disassociate from, from that type of thinking, because you know what then it's going to be like. Oh, maybe I don't want to do this, but all I'm doing is this has to be done, right. If this isn't done, the coyote population is going to go out of control, the bear population is going to go out of control, the deer population is going to go.

Speaker 2: 59:03

Everything that we do is really for management purpose as well. If we let one get out of control, man, then you can have disease spreading, starvation. You know car, you know car collisions, we don't, you know. So you have to keep, especially if us as humans are going to keep taking from these animals and they have less and less space to work with. What do you think is going to happen? And, at the end of the day, I don't want a kid to die. I don't, I don't, and that's gonna be unfortunate part. If they kept this Black Bear ban up, what would have happened? I imagine at some point a small child would have been mauled, right, gosh forbid, you don't want that to happen, but it's only bound to happen.

Speaker 2: 59:52

I think the same thing with the coyotes, with the coyotes that we have here. They're big and they're a lot and they're spreading like crazy. Well, yeah, you know what, you might not get one that's going to attack a a, a, a full adult. But the opportunists gosh forbid. You have a kid. You know that's what. Gosh forbid, that happens. Why? Why wait until something's too late? Tunist Gosh forbid. You have a kid. You know, let's walk. Gosh forbid that happens. Why? Why wait until something's too late? Why? Why do this? Because you, you don't believe in it. You know, and, and they're they're like, listen, that a hundred percent makes. Once I said it that way. They said you know what. That makes a hundred percent sense. And that, take on it.

Speaker 2: 1:00:32

I, I, we want that, we want people to go out on their hunt, because once you bring up oh my gosh, you know what? Gosh forbid. Somebody dies and a kid gets attacked, like how would we feel? And they're like, yeah, you know what? That's true, you know. I've had people that you know up in these towns and say, hey, here's a bear, there's a bear here. It's very scary, because we have these bears walking through our backyards where our kids play. That's, that's a scary thing, you know.

Speaker 3: 1:00:57

So I think on the, I think on the whole, people are really insulated. They're insulated from the fact that they forget that these are wild animals and, to your point, mike, there is a chasm of difference between a coyote and a domesticated dog.

Speaker 2: 1:01:18

there's thousands of years of genetic difference. There it's not.

Speaker 4: 1:01:22

It wasn't a hundred years ago that that coyote, like that lucky, was out there eating. It's thousands and thousands of years of genetics, it's not? Yeah?

Speaker 3: 1:01:33

you're. People don't. They don't realize last year, they don't realize, they don't. They can't identify with the fact that wild animals are wild and in their natural habitat. It's the same thing. It goes back to bambi watching bambi and my dad taking me hunting and all the women that worked in the salon would say, oh you're a Bambi killer, you're a Bambi killer. These are smart animals.

Speaker 3: 1:01:57

It's not, you know, the way that they're portrayed in the media and in films, and all of that is not reality, you know, and so people don't have exposure to that, to the other, to the true reality of it, and that's our biggest hurdle when it comes to that Just in that reason alone I won't like.

Speaker 1: 1:02:15

I tell my kids like every time they go outside, I'm outside with them.

Speaker 2: 1:02:19

I had huge bears walk through, coyotes, everything I'm like every time they go outside, I'm like I'm going with you and it's. I think that's how it's perfectly set and I'll talk about this every single day on the podcast. If I have to, I will bring it up to everybody. They don't live it, it's kill or be killed. It is you survive or you don't. From the second that thorn is dropped, it has to survive. There, there, there's there's no survival of the week Like we now have in our, our, our human worlds.

Speaker 2: 1:02:57

Everyone, you know it's we have. We live in a house, we have air conditioning, we have heat, we have electricity, we, we have food that's cooked for us. We no longer people no longer have to go out and get their own food. You know we, I'm going to go, you know, after this, real quick, I'm going to go to go out and get their own food. You know we, I'm going to go. You know, after this, real quick, put it, I'm going to go grab some food real quick. I don't have to go out and hunt right now. If I, if I don't have, I have the whole freezer filled. So I'm good. You know we, we're all good, we have clothing.

Speaker 2: 1:03:22

It's raining Guess what? This rain is not affecting us in inside here. Guess what? For animals's that's not the case and they're still being hunted right now. If they make a wrong, a wrong mistake, there, there goes there. There there goes their, their life. So it's. It's not the same. We can't really compare, and you know it's. I don't know if it'll ever get better, but we can only pray, but you know it's, we just have to stand united and that, and that's really the the big part of it I think the biggest thing for me is I.

Speaker 3: 1:03:55

I don't want to admit that even I, the humans, we are domesticated animals at this point right yes, we are oh, yeah, yep, no, we so.

Speaker 2: 1:04:05

So are. And you know I'm watching, uh, limitless right now with um, with the children at um, at and it's with Chris Hemsworth, and basically what he's doing is he's doing all these different type of challenges just to see the old, ancient medication, you know taking hot shower, doing the sauna, cold, getting over your fear and stress, like I think he was on a high rise, 240 feet up, and they were doing stuff with that. It was like you know what Stress is a killer, but if you're able to conquer it and and be able to live with them, be like okay, tell your your mind that you're going to be okay, you're going to be okay and control your heart rate and everything goes, that's going to help you in the long, long run. You know he's doing all these things and I was like, and he literally said he goes.

Speaker 2: 1:04:53

This just shows you how our body wants to survive and we're so adapt for so much more than what we're doing right now. We are lazy, you know we could be outside in the rain, in freezing, cold and right. Our body is going to do everything it can to survive and we can do it, we. We can go through these things you know, but you know it's, it's understand we're domesticated with. Without a doubt, we are domesticated um, let's get back to um. I have a you you know, and it's hinge cutting. You, you talked about hinge cutting earlier. A little bit, you know, and where you should. So, like someone who, who has no idea, like what is hinge, hinge, hinge cutting, what are some of the benefits? And you know what are you looking for when you're, when you want to hinge cut a, a area you want to hinge cut a area.

Speaker 4: 1:05:58

So hinge cutting, in layman terms, is basically cutting a tree and allowing a percentage of the bark to remain intact on the tree. So you're cutting it. You're cutting smaller trees that have a little bit of flex to them, but you're not cutting it like you typically would cut timber, where you're notching it and allowing it to fall over, completely severed from the stump, so to speak. So just basically, take a, you know, a tree. That is what I'm looking for, at least on my property, and this is different for everybody. But I'm looking for a tree that's not going to be a money tree, meaning that there's no timber value to it. You know, when we do get the property timbered, it's not going to be something that would have been a high dollar. So you know I'm looking for, you know, some beach trees. Those typically don't, you know, have a lot. Anything that's crooked, you know, regardless of the type of wood it is, if it's crooked and it's not going to make a log, um, that'll get hinge cut um, you know beech trees, like I said. Uh, ironwood we have a lot of ironwoods on our property that we would typically hinge cut um, and what I'm doing? I'm just looking to open the forest floor to the sunlight a little bit more to allow other natural vegetation to grow.

Speaker 4: 1:07:17

That is one reason a lot of people hinge, cut things and I'm gonna make a bedding area, I'm gonna make a bedroom. That could happen to that. That. You know you do that with the tops of the trees because you left part of the tree intact and didn't sever it completely. From the stump. There is going to be some nutrients and stuff still sent to the ends of the tree allowing, you know, leaf growth and and a little bit of stuff. So that's going to add browse into, you know, that area. Other people hinge, cut to, you know, create funnels, make, you know, cut trees here, block this area off, forcing deer game to travel the way that they want to travel. You know that's another reason for hinge cutting I'm just looking for for me specifically, if I'm hinge cutting an area, I'm halfway thinking about bedding, I'm halfway thinking about funneling and then I'm halfway thinking about, you know, getting sunlight to the floor and allowing more natural vegetation. So I'm doing it for all three, but do I do it for one specific thing all the time?

Speaker 2: 1:08:35

No, Gotcha Okay.

Speaker 4: 1:08:39

All right. I don't know if that was the best way to explain that or not.

Speaker 2: 1:08:44

I think, our listeners who don't know what it means. Well, I think it definitely helps Any type of way. Like you said, there's so many different benefits. There's so many reasons why people do it. You know, um, it's something that I've, yet again, always been very interested in. You know, um, and a big part is to to open up that canopy, you know, to to get a bunch of the more natural growth in there.

Speaker 2: 1:09:15

Um, where I hunt, I don't really need to do it for for bedding, because we have pretty great bedding where we're at, like there's it's thick, it's it's nasty, like it's some of the best perfect cover that that you're going to get already as well but to create a natural fun funnels. Another great way like, um, you know, but I think for me it would be most important is is you know the natural growth and how beneficial natural growth is to to management, and you know that's something that you always hear from, you know, when growing deer tv talks about it to all these people who do management. Stuff is natural is the best. That's my guy right there. Yeah, he's, he's great grant doctor.

Speaker 4: 1:09:54

Dr grant woods is kind of my uh go-to when it comes to the techniques and the principles and and and stuff that I try to abide by. He's um, I mean, he's a dear biologist. It doesn't get any better than that. So he's, he's, he's definitely what. That's definitely what I use to to pay attention to and and and try to implement a lot of the things that he does, because I could, you could just see, you know, when he's standing in an area talking about what he did, you could see how successful he.

Speaker 2: 1:10:25

You know what he's claiming he did worked and he, he gives really good description and breaking it down for everyone. He's actually one of the first youtube um videos I was really watching online when I started bow hunting and everything like that. And you know, I I learned a lot from him and I it's only gonna, once I do get that power, start this process. Same thing like that's who I really key on to, to a lot of the management stuff, to you know, to get biology facts and everything like that from him, because he's, he's up there, he's he's like what, if you're talking about like route Mount Rushmore for hunting, I honestly would, I would probably put him up there too, because he just he knows his stuff. Um, he's a diehard outdoorsman, um, you know, and he's able to break things down like no one else really can because he has that biology background and everything like that yeah, I'm a big.

Speaker 4: 1:11:19

I'm a big fan of jeff sturgis too, and what? Yeah, what jeff sturgis does and a lot of his principles. I mean, everybody knows who that is. Yeah, but, um, I, those two are the, the two people that I mean every, there's not. I feel like this is one of those things.

Speaker 4: 1:11:35

I don't feel like there's a wrong answer to it. Well, why, why do I want to hitch, cut this? Well, why tell me why you want to do it? Like it's not wrong? Your answer if you want to create a funnel, it's not wrong. You, you want to increase sunlight to the floor? You're not wrong. I, why do you want to plant this? You're not wrong. I don't think that there's a in terms of a why. There's not a wrong answer in this habitat property management thing. There's wrong ways to do something, but in terms of a why you want to do it, I don't think that there's a wrong answer about why you want to do it. I don't think that there's a wrong answer. I mean the. The one thing that those guys do that that I have yet to to dive into is is is the controlled burn and the prescribed burns?

Speaker 4: 1:12:18

um, I think that ultimately just comes down to having a set of cojones a little bit and not want to open up uh, open up a can of worms that I'm not ready to, to fight, so to speak. I don't think that I can handle setting a mountain on fire, um, if something were to get out of control. So I haven't, I haven't burnt anything yet and I I want to, but I'm like I said, I'm a little bit of, I'm a little bit afraid to to die.

Speaker 2: 1:12:50

Yeah, I, I, I, I would love to as well, but I think you're. It's like so much can go wrong. Um, and I I'm not a hundred percent sure, but I imagine like you would have to, you know, let you know your local firefighters know, or get certain stuff that you know, permits and stuff like that. I would imagine I I don't really know like the whole process behind that, but I would imagine like you would have to. But I know you also have to wait for the right wind too. Um, yeah, the wind.

Speaker 4: 1:13:21

It's wind humidity there's a bunch of. You know you got to have a fire line cut in. That's a where I'm at. That would be a week or two's worth of work. Within itself would just be getting a quality fire line cut in. Like you said, there's probably a bunch of stuff that I mean I don't really know. I just know that one of the things that they're always talking about when those guys do.

Speaker 4: 1:13:46

It is the humidity, is the temperature, is the wind direction, the wind speed, and everything has got to line up perfectly. There can't be any slight variation in any of that, or you have a natural disaster on your hands.

Speaker 1: 1:14:01

Yeah, yeah, that'd give me too much anxiety, I wouldn't be able to do it yeah, no fire extinguisher big enough.

Speaker 2: 1:14:12

No, definitely not, Frank, Steve, you yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:14:16

I was just going to say Austin. So you have a, you developed a pretty good relationship with Domain Outdoors and use their products and I know you really believe in them. Do you want to talk about your relationship with them and their products?

Speaker 4: 1:14:29

at all.

Speaker 4: 1:14:30

Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, I'm just an affiliate of theirs. I am affiliated with them. I've used this, like we talked about in the beginning. I've used a bunch of different companies, not everything. It became in a bag from Tractor Supply or online or whatever. We tried it.

Speaker 4: 1:14:48

And last year I tried Domain for the first year and it was just like, wow, this is different. Typically it doesn't look this good or, you know, it was just a couple of varieties that I used. Right in the beginning I was like, wow, this is, this is where it's at, this is good. And once again, it. Just because it works for me here in upstate New York does not mean that it's going to work the same for you down in South Jersey or for somebody out in Indiana or you know anywhere. I stand behind it and it's worked for me and I love it.

Speaker 4: 1:15:27

And you know, in terms of the guys that work for Domain, they're all a bunch of great guys. They're really knowledgeable. Everybody that I've come in contact with you know that uses Domain. All has pretty much, for the most part, good things to say, and they all say the same things it germinates, great germinates, fast, grade germinates, fast, and going through my plot after it's planted and and going full force and looking on the back of the jar, you know I got what they said I was going to get. I didn't get any extra stuff. You know I didn't get a filler seed or, you know, a fresh new grass or anything. So you know they, they really do, you know, really do do a great job with. You know, giving you what they say that they're going to give you. It's all really quality stuff. I mean.

Speaker 4: 1:16:17

Well, in all honesty, one of the things, the most simple thing that drew me to domain was just the fact that they're in jars. That's just like. It's just like a that was one of. For now, everything's in jars, but when I first saw them, they were the only thing on the shelf that was in a jar and I was like, wow, that's, that's different. Usually bags, bags, get wet, they hold moisture. You see ruins, like you know something were to happen and you know I go to start planting and I have to stop because it's coming to downpour, downpour. You know, I just turned the lid back on the jar and good to go. Like something that simple really drew me then and, uh, you know I actually um. So I I'm in the process of starting my own food plot company and I am installing several um food plots in the area this year. I have a couple of contracts going out at the end of next week to give to some people and that's what I'm going to be using, and I stand behind them.

Speaker 3: 1:17:24

That's fantastic.

Speaker 2: 1:17:26

Yeah, that's awesome. That's pretty cool, Like I said.

Speaker 4: 1:17:30

I got a couple of contracts out this at the end of next week I'm gonna see how it goes but I got a couple varieties of some more domain mixes coming in and excited to see what happens with that very exciting that's.

Speaker 2: 1:17:45

That's really. I think I definitely know who I'll be giving a call once we get a property and and stuff like that um but, um, what for you, like, what is the?

Speaker 2: 1:17:58

you know, I know that you said lid and everything like that, but you know, and other stuff. But also like the options and and how many options they offer and everything like that, like for someone who doesn't know much about about this, like kind of like, simplify it for me, the best, best you can like, you know, maybe one of their, their top products of why, um, as specific as someone would would be looking at this to to get okay.

Speaker 4: 1:18:27

So I'm looking at a, looking at a book right now. They have an extraordinary amount of different options. I mean, everybody has a bunch of options. One of their top mixes that I use and think just overall really works well in this specific part of Sullivan County, new York, delaware County, hudson Valley, is there no BS. It's got. I got the jar here somewhere.

Speaker 4: 1:19:03

That's what I think is, you know, one of their top of the line products and this falls in the category of what a no-till throw and grow would be. And, like I said a couple of seconds ago that you know they then they named it no BS because there's no filler seed in this jar at all. So in in the mix you're going to get, um, it's got some oats, um, it's got some oats, some rape, some radishes and some chicories, but that's it. There's not a fresh cue grass, there's not a rye grass, which a lot of these other companies on the market you know they put X amount of seed to. You know, get to that 25 pound mark when there's really only 20 pounds of good stuff in there. They need to get to that 25 pound mark and they'll just throw in whatever.

Speaker 4: 1:20:04

And you know that's one of the things that domain doesn't do. They don't do any of that. What you see is what you get, and you know they got a really good question questionnaire program on their website. You know it's. You're getting one of the one of the guys directly. You know you go on their website, you ask a question. You're you're getting somebody that knows what they're talking about.

Speaker 2: 1:20:28

That's pretty cool. Um, you know, and something I I don't know if you've ever heard this or had any experience with this, but it's someone told me that bears do not like, uh, sugar beet. You know, for for someone. Okay, so so for someone who, who knows I'm not 100 sure, I don't know if I've ever heard it um, or I mean I have heard it. I don't know if I've ever heard it, or I mean I have heard it. I don't know if this is like an actual thing, but say it is. You know, you guys offer, obviously, like over there they have a sugar beet option, like there's just all these different mixes. I would. I would imagine also as well that that offers sugar beans, something like that for that late season.

Speaker 4: 1:21:08

Yeah, they have a. They have a bunch of different late, uh, late season mixes. I mean, beats are big, um, turnips are big, anything, anything in that late season category. That's got that tuber, that bulb that the deer are going to hit in late november. You know december area, um, they got a, they got a bunch of mixes like that. Um, I've not heard anything specifically before about bears not liking sugar beets. Knowing what I know about bears, that almost doesn't make sense but it kind of does make sense at the same time. You know bears love sugar, that's a given. But I've never heard anything specifically about sugar beets yeah, it's, it's one of those.

Speaker 2: 1:21:59

I was just very curious because like I heard it I was like it's like, really I was like, but that wouldn't really make sense because that smells so like sugary and that's something that I feel like a bear would almost have no choice but to go towards and and try to eat, but like I don't know who knows um frank steve, anything. Anything else on on these topics, no I'm good, no, um yeah I, I think we, I think we hit a lot.

Speaker 2: 1:22:29

Um, I think we, I think we hit a lot, I, I. There was a lot of questions asked. You know, and, and Austin, you did an absolute amazing job, definitely covering it. Before, before we get off with with every new, with my everyone who's new, to the, to the show, we do a bunch of rapid questions kind of and our, our, our main question always is if you could hunt any state for two weeks, what would be your dream? Hunt any animal, any state, two weeks money is not an option what would it be?

Speaker 4: 1:23:12

something off the coast of Alaska for a brown bear, the Fog Necker. You know, fog Neck Island, prince of Wales. I don't something up there. We're for a brown bear that's.

Speaker 2: 1:23:25

I think that's the first coastal one. I think I think that would be our first answer where someone has said a coastal bear, do you have a go-to hunting snack? Boom pies, boom pies. If you could man, if you could buy a property anywhere in the state and build your own food plot and manage it your own way, what state would that be and what is something that you definitely have to have on that property?

Speaker 4: 1:24:07

land of the giants um iowa for sure, and the better question is what wouldn't I have on that property?

Speaker 2: 1:24:20

perfect. Um, if you could get sponsored by any company out there and this it doesn't specifically have to be a hunting company, it, it could be anything what would that company be?

Speaker 4: 1:24:38

Um, I don't know, that's a good question. I've never actually thought about that before.

Speaker 2: 1:24:45

I've got. I've gotten some interesting ones and this maybe I've gotten um. Someone said ram, someone said ram or or truck company. I guess.

Speaker 4: 1:24:56

I guess right now, um, they have a. They have a company called the the farminator and it's a. It's a pull behind, uh, it's a whole pull behind. It's like an eight and one pull behind machine for a atv, utv or, you know, tractor. It's got a tiller, a disker, um called the packer, a cedar. You know it's an eight and one piece of equipment to pull behind your atv or utv.

Speaker 2: 1:25:20

So that'd be a good one.

Speaker 3: 1:25:22

Considering the route that I'm trying to take, this I'd say that's number one yeah, that would be number one that's.

Speaker 2: 1:25:30

That's a good one for what you do. Yeah, like that sounds like an awesome product it actually does. Like it's a product I think I would.

Speaker 4: 1:25:38

I would like to buy two or five my own property as well that definitely would help it's like an eight and one to have to pull behind the quad. So that's, I think that's where I will go right now. That could change in a couple months, I don't know. Yeah, I say, john dear no, yeah, yeah you know, that's another, that's another, good you know, that's definitely a big one.

Speaker 2: 1:25:59

Um non-typical or typical deer. Typical, if you could only hunt one week out of the season one, would it be?

Speaker 4: 1:26:12

uh, the last week october that one respect.

Speaker 2: 1:26:18

Respect favorite hunting condition snow yes, yeah, the snow's. The snow's such a good one, so snow's fun one. It's. It's a time of the life. Um, let's see, I don't know, I think I'm, I think I'm out right now. I think there's. I try to get them off my head and not not write them down, um, but I think, boys, you got any any any other quick hitters you're interested about?

Speaker 1: 1:26:52

No, Wait, EuroMount or.

Speaker 2: 1:26:55

ShoulderMount. There's certain people that do like EuroMounts over ShoulderMounts.

Speaker 4: 1:27:01

It just kind of depends on what the animal was. Like a 140-inch buck, I wouldn't mind having it uh Euro mounted. But like uh, like a, like an elk or something that's got to get shoulder mounted.

Speaker 2: 1:27:17

Yeah, uh, I would bet you have, like if you go out somewhere and you shoot like a elk or a moose, like I kind of see how, how do you not get that? I mean, I can see why you don't get it, shoulder mount because of just the price alone, but it's like I feel like those are two that you, you kind of like you have to do like oh yeah, it's a once in a lifetime opportunity that's a full body mountain you see, there you go.

Speaker 2: 1:27:43

Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent, jesus. I wonder what the price would be on a full body brown bear he would be ripping apart, I'd double my hunt.

Speaker 4: 1:27:56

So if we're looking at $30,000 for the hunt, that's probably $60,000 probably probably about that's gosh.

Speaker 2: 1:28:10

What an expensive hunt. Like jesus, I know africa is expensive, but like, do you have any? Would you ever want to hunt in africa?

Speaker 4: 1:28:19

me personally, I I have no desire to to hunt in there. That's not one of the ones I was going to leave, uh, north america to go somewhere and and hunt somewhere outside of north america. It would definitely be new zealand I literally I do a stag hunt in new zealand before I would venture into africa. This, uh, I don't know what it is, just africa's never really appealed to me like that. I think New Zealand's getting more.

Speaker 2: 1:28:50

And more and more popular, where I'm starting to hear that come up Way more, and I'm starting to see people Go to New Zealand way more than you know ever before and I think it's something that's a red stag. That would be pretty cool. I don't think I have an Africa that could change, honestly, that easily could change, but like I'm not a big Light person, so I mean even new zealand for me might be a complete issue, but uh, I don't.

Speaker 3: 1:29:17

I don't know like africa yeah, new zealand, in europe, new zealand, europe, have so many options as far as angelids are concerned, I mean for different species. You got fallow deer, you have red red stag. I mean you have a lot of options there, so I think that would be an easy one. It's definitely on my bucket list, if I have a bucket list we all got a bucket list.

Speaker 2: 1:29:40

Yeah, it's a long list, yeah it's growing. Is it going to be achievable?

Speaker 4: 1:29:47

I don't know, but it's it's growing um, I got a list with the only one. There's only one on my list that I'm like everybody wants to go somewhere, but there's only like I will do the brown bear hunt in alaska at some point. I like that's not a maybe like it before they put me six feet in the ground, I will, will go do that.

Speaker 2: 1:30:09

Yeah, and and I think that's what makes it like everyone and this was on the show Elk has been the most popular answer for the longest time and it moved to Moose last year and Moose is on another great start this year.

Speaker 2: 1:30:21

But I think that's because when you talk about bucket list in a dream and I've said this before and I'll say it again when you talk about bucket list in a dream and I've said this before and I'll say it again alaska, red stag with in new zealand, like those are hunts, that it's like all right, that that's a big deal, like going to colorado, going to new mexico, that's a lot easier than going out to alaska, then going out to new zealand, then going out to even africa, you know, and going out to these exotic places, I know for people when it comes to fishing, like going down to even africa, you know, and going out to these exotic places, I know for people when it comes to fishing, like going down to the amazon and like south america, like that is like a lot of people's dream and stuff like that, um, but those are not as achievable I've been to colorado.

Speaker 4: 1:31:02

It was fun, it was cool, it was an experience, it was great. But I don't think it. I don't think it holds a candle to what someplace place like alaska would have to offer oh yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2: 1:31:12

I agree, even you know every animal in alaska it's like you're talking about. You know, from moose to caribou, to to the brown bears, to, you know, wolves, um, every animal is just big and unique and just can pack a punch.

Speaker 1: 1:31:33

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:31:33

And if you really go far, far, far, far up. You know you're you're getting to pull bear country. You know you get into the seals, Like I know, like you know the natives there, like they'll hunt seals and everything like that and and whales for for bubbler and everything like that, but like you're talking about animals that probably have never seen a human ever, ever before, you know not many people get to to go there, versus like some of these other places, like a lot of people go to colorado, a lot of people go to new mexico and those places, but, um, I think that I think that's going to be all. I think that's going to wrap up today's episode. Austin. Any last words?

Speaker 4: 1:32:11

Yeah, just so. June 21st to June 23rd I'm going to put this up on the screen real quick. I'm sure you guys have seen this, but a buddy of mine, pat, over at the Bowhunter Brotherhood, is putting together an archery festival. It's June 21st to June 23rd. It's in LaGrangeville. Um, if you're in the tri-state area, this is definitely um something that you're going to want to come out and, bring the family, bring the kids, bring your bow and and have a good time definitely, yeah, no, um.

Speaker 2: 1:32:44

Can you say the date one more time?

Speaker 4: 1:32:46

uh junest to June 23rd in LaGrangeville.

Speaker 2: 1:32:51

I unfortunately will not be able to make that. I'll be getting ready for my trip to England so I have to work, but hopefully one of the guys and everything will be out there. If anyone's interested I will put the. We will post the information in either in the link or in the bio or on our page. So take a look at that.

Speaker 2: 1:33:10

We were, by the time this drops, we are we might be already at our game dinner by the time this drops, but you know, if not, april 6th we're hosting our first wild game dinner. I hope as much you guys can make it out. Our website should be dropping dropping too by then. So you know, go check out our, our website. Uh. Wwwboondockshuntingcom. Um. Austin, I want to thank you so much for coming on. We now definitely have to schedule you uh later in the year for a I'm not hog Jesus Christ um for for hunting with dogs. We we definitely got to, got to get into that Um and you know it's. It's been great getting you on. It's been uh great talking to you. You know I'm very interested to see how your page goes and you know your products, that you, that you got going on. If I have any questions, I will definitely be be reaching out Um Steve out um steve frank.

Speaker 3: 1:34:09

any last words no, no, it was awesome having you on, austin. We really appreciate a lot great information and sure we'll have follow-up questions and looking forward to having you on again yeah, thank you, I enjoyed it.

Speaker 4: 1:34:24

It was great and, uh, I'm glad that I could have answered, or hopefully answered, anything that you guys have.

Speaker 2: 1:34:30

It was really great and you know, if we ever got any more questions, listen people, feel free, reach out. You know, ask your questions because that's you know, that's the best way to learn and you know, I hope you guys enjoyed this episode and we'll see you guys next time.