Speaker 2: 0:21

Welcome back to the Garden State Outdoors and Podcast presented by Boondocks Hunting. I'm your host, Mike Nightring. I'm Frank Mastika and today we got Alex Grosso on, aka known as Buckdown on Instagram. Welcome to the show, man. It's a pleasure having you on.

Speaker 3: 0:40

Mike Frank. Well, thank you guys for having me on. I appreciate it. Glad to be here, ready to talk some whitetail and whatever else we got on the books for today.

Speaker 2: 0:50

Yeah, man, how long have you been running this page?

Speaker 3: 0:54

for About a year probably Actually a year from the end of this week, so almost exactly one year. Okay, congratulations on the one year and it's been, it's been fun how are you enjoying it?

Speaker 2: 1:09

so like you know what? What were your expectations when you made the page? A lot of people say they just meant it just for a personal thing, just you know to really you know for hunt, more of hunting, fishing, you know, and not bothered with it with a personal one where you know some people out there, of course you know, and not bothered with it with the personal one where you know some people out there, of course you know they don't really like you know the whole aspect, or is this a page that you really want to create in and to make something um bigger than that?

Speaker 3: 1:36

it's honestly a page um. I want to make something bigger out of it, honestly. So why I started it in the first place was there's kind of I guess there's like a story behind it. But my buddy, he was brand new in the hunt and he was he's like hey, man, like I want to learn how to hunt, and he was talking about archery hunting. So, uh, I'm like sure, like I'll teach you and I'll help you out. So over the course of four or five months I'm just helping him.

Speaker 3: 2:03

He's texting me, we're texting every day about hunting whitetails and uh, I just had so much fun teaching him. And then he would say stuff later on that I taught him and I like hit me one day as I like this is really fun, like I'm having a great time teaching him. And then I was just like you, you know what I want to teach other people. You know I don't know everything, but I want to put something out there where maybe someone's going to get something from it, you know. So that's really why I started with just kind of to teach others or influence maybe new hunters or just get people out in the woods. And then it kind of took off from there and I love it, man, every time I post something I've I just have fun putting something together and you know I just I get a kick out of it. I enjoy it a lot.

Speaker 3: 2:49

So it's been a great, it's been a good first year.

Speaker 2: 2:53

That's great and you had yourself hell of a year, you know. Yeah, I know something. A few things I noticed, like out in the beginning. Know one, going into the season, your motto was hunt ugly and I remember when that, when you posted that, I was like man, I absolutely love that you know, um. And two, I like how you you keep a journal and I kind of do the same thing where, like, everything's written down and you had, I think, two instances this year where you missed two deer well, so I missed five deer.

Speaker 2: 3:29

Total I missed two bucks but it was the best season of my life, so I mean right and good and something that we we talk about a lot is what makes what kind of what we do it. We are posting our, our failures as well. You're not just seeing all the success that we're having. We have to talk about the. The unfortunate part about it is is the failures is missing, because guess what that's? That's what everyone, everyone, does like. No one is perfect, but I imagine for you, everything, just like everyone else, it's a learning experience. So what, what did you learn from from those instant incidents this year? And you know how, how did that help you and you know, throughout the season yeah, man, I don't even I learned so much from those.

Speaker 3: 4:19

You know, like I said, I was telling other guys I don't really know what exactly I did wrong, necessarily I know it was me, but it kind of woke me up of to go through my shot process a little bit more careful.

Speaker 3: 4:33

So I would shoot a lot over the summer and, um, I noticed I was becoming very dependent on my range finder going into the season this is in like June and July and I kept telling myself I'm like I got to put this thing down and then I would just shoot so repetitively and consistent that I just became I developed bad habits within that process and so I don't know man Torquing my bow how I'm holding my release a let go too soon.

Speaker 3: 5:03

Those are all factors that led to, you know, those misses and those different circumstances. But I just learned to really kind of take a step back. You know I don't want to say I was too cocky in my shot or too confident in my shot, like more so complacent. I was Just kind of take a step back for next season, focus on all my practice shots again, pretend it's all real life, and so when I'm in the woods, you know, just have that same mindset, whether it's a target versus a deer, and obviously when a deer comes in, your adrenaline is running more and sometimes your thought process changes a little bit. But that's what I'm working on this offseason, going into the next season.

Speaker 2: 5:44

I think it's pretty crucial. What you said is, you know you rely too much on the range finder and, unfortunately, when, when we're out really hunting, like sometimes, these deer are coming in so fast, so quickly or so quiet that you don't have that opportunity to to range something. So I agree, like I think we, just we just rely on it too much in the office because, look, listen, it's easy at that point, you know we, you get go up here. All right, let me, let me range us in and let me just, you know, let me get comfortable and let me draw back and and shoot and then it's like, oh well, you know what, that wasn't the best shot.

Speaker 2: 6:20

Well listen, I got another arrow. That thing, you know, you get complacent be like that.

Speaker 3: 6:25

Yeah, it's never gonna be like that. A lot of times in the woods and I even told myself I'm like, and it's, it's my. I should have put that dang thing down, man. I just kept using it and like, uh, well, maybe off time if a deer comes in.

Speaker 2: 6:36

So that's, that was partially a mistake number one I made in the off season how, how far were the shots this year that that you, that you had those misses? Where was it? Was it farther than normal or was it like it?

Speaker 3: 6:50

was just like a they were all 30. I want to say they're all 30 yards, which is what I practice at, which is ironic. Um, yeah, I think they were all at 30 yards right around there.

Speaker 2: 7:07

None of them were like 10 yards, but yeah, they're far enough where I'm very still comfortable with which, listen, I'm comfortable at 30, I'm comfortable at 40, but it's like everything just has to go correctly, everything, like you know, it's not like we're at 10, 15 yards, like you know, and listen, it should be pretty easy, you know, not saying it, it's always, but it should be. You know, you're, you're, you're at a higher percentage to get it done with. You know, the closer are you in. But even I'd say, really, it starts at that like 25 mark where things start to be like, okay, like you have a lot of factors that are going to play and you know, um, I think it's just one of those things. Listen, it happens.

Speaker 2: 7:54

I, I shouldered a deer, uh, you know deer this year, and it was. I couldn't believe it. And it's like the same thing. Like what did I do wrong? You know, at first I was like, oh, like the deer ducked it, everything. But now I went through the footage and everything like that. And it's like the same thing. Like what did I do wrong? You know, at first I was like, oh, like the deer ducked and everything. But now I went through the footage and everything like that and it's what did I do wrong?

Speaker 3: 8:10

yeah, yeah, it's uh, like you said, the factors that lead up to it. I mean, the further the way, the more factors come into play, and it wasn't all the range, it was a whole variety of of things which, again, I couldn't tell you the exact cause of it, but I'm still happy I had them, though, you know, still got good encounters. I don't want to put myself down like I did during the season. One of those things were happening.

Speaker 2: 8:38

It's easier to put yourself during down during the season. I think it's it's such a now looking back at back at it's like all right, like there's nothing you do but be positive because, listen, that's, that's what we got to do. But we, I think, as archers and you know, with it being a game of inches, our mind is our, our biggest weapon really. Because if we are, if we're not on our game, if we're doubting ourselves, I'm telling you like it affects our shot and it affects what we can do. And you know when you're feeling hot and when, when you know you're good and you're confident, you, you shoot, confident, but when you're not, it's, it's a big like we, yes, we need to go through the motions and we need to shoot and shoot and shoot, and we need to shoot and shoot, shoot. But mentally we have to stay positive and stay strong, because if we're second-guessing our stuff ourselves, then it's not gonna really work in the in the archery world yeah, you're right, and keeping that mindset to.

Speaker 3: 9:34

One thing I started doing is usually I would put like a block behind my target. So if I miss my arrow, saved now I just just the stones there. So if I miss, my arrow is gonna break, which adds a lot. It adds. It adds a ton of pressure. That's actually smart, but it, yeah, it definitely. You folk like I pull my bow down. Now if I feel like I'm having a bad shot, I'll kind of pull my bow back down and re I'll draw back yeah, so that's something that it's.

Speaker 3: 10:04

I mean I'm, I feel pressure. I mean a dozen of arrows is isn't cheap.

Speaker 2: 10:09

Yeah, no, that's right, it's, um, it's, it's doing this and like I'll do the same thing or I will actually. Yeah, and I'm, you might do this as well, as I work out, I run and I will, and I'll shoot in between, between my sets, because you know, when your your heart's up high, like listen, your your heart rate's going, that that's the most realistic thing that that you could possibly do. You know, I try to shoot out the saddle. I don't have much room in my yard if I'm shooting at this out the saddle. I you got to work with what you got to work with, but you got to somewhat get accustomed because those angles change things.

Speaker 3: 10:42

Yeah, it makes a big difference.

Speaker 2: 10:44

We're not always shooting. You know, most of us don't shoot out off the ground yeah, yeah, get too comfortable with those type of situations.

Speaker 1: 10:51

You got to change it up here and there getting out of the saddle, climb period, whatever yeah, I think that was my biggest thing, because I usually shoot, you know, from 20, 30, 40 in my, in my yard, off the ground, so I really don't practice that much in the tree, which this year I just switched to the saddle, so I'm definitely gonna be doing more of that. That way I'm more comfortable, since it is my first year in the saddle. But uh, I mean it happened to me. Um, this past season I was practicing, practicing at 40 yards.

Speaker 1: 11:21

A nice eight pointer came in on our farm at 42 yards. I hit him. I just I ended up hitting them low, like just under, and I mean I was devastated. I mean I thought at first I thought like I put a good shot on them once he ran and I could tell he was he like laid down for a minute. Then he got up and he just started walking fine story. And I was like something's wrong, you know, and I I mean it's fortunately. You know it happens, you know, when you're out in the woods different factors happen, because I kept wondering what did I? What did I do? Like I've done this shot over and over again in my yard and it just I still don't know what happened, you know.

Speaker 3: 12:03

So it's the game of inches like Mike said, yep, absolutely Game of inches. Not every shot's going to be perfect for every archer either. You're going to have those misses. I mean professional target archers. They even miss too. You know, it's common.

Speaker 2: 12:20

You just every shot's going to be perfect. It's, but that's why we do it and that's why we love it. But you know, now we move to the success that you had in the season and, like you said, this was your most successful season. You had the most fun in this season. You know, go through, go through that process. You know you, like you said, you had hell of a season. So like when did it start turning, turning around for you and and everything like that.

Speaker 3: 12:48

So I uh, started out here in mid-september and I'm fortunate enough, my fiance lets me hunt quite a bit, so all that from mid-september to mid-october it's kind of a grind and I went through those. I missed some deer and then I ended up getting two doe down. Then I got a third doe down and then I finally took a break. I took a weekend off of hunting and I just needed it, man. I left town. I barely had any phone service and so that kind of was a good reset. And then we came back and that next day I just well, that weekend, there I was. I thought one of my target bucks, one of the bigger bucks I was going after, got shot and killed. And uh, I was. I was kind of devastated at first. I said, all right, like here we go, let's, let's go in here and let's get this, let's get a deer down. And, um, really, my pa, buck it not. There isn't a big story that leads up to. It was just so quick and it was pouring down rain one morning and I said, you know what, I'm gonna switch spots, I'm gonna go to a different spot. And I had a fixed stand there right along this, like there's some bedding down below and it was raining cats and dogs this morning. The morning I got him, I snuck right in there, climbed the stand at like 645. I even went in a little late just because it was pouring so hard.

Speaker 3: 14:18

And 730 rolls around and I see this deer pop out from the bottom and this was October 30th and uh, he was. He wasn't in a rut yet, but he was definitely seeking for a doe and I let out a grunt call. He just stopped right there, looked over at me in my direction and started walking right in and at that point, like when I saw that deer before he even started walking towards me, my mind was so set. I was dialed in at that point. You know I was. It was seasons halfway over. I'm like he's going down and, uh, four up on one side is our, is our, are the regulations here? So he came underneath, probably about 15 yards and put an arrow through him and I heard the pop and he ran 20 yards and died right in front of me. So that was really the PA season I had for getting him and it was quick and it was actually kind of easy too. It was finally something that know worked out, came right up, right over to me and, uh, he went down. So that was a?

Speaker 3: 15:30

Um janitor, I'm fortunate, fortunate to get that deer there were, uh, there's um a few were bigger bucks in that area too that I was after. But I kind of let it sit because I didn't know the pressure, because when I scouted that area in the off season I saw there were stands almost every direction you go. So I put up a fixed stand in this area where I didn't find a stand and, um, I kind of just let it sit all season. And I had a camera there but the camera broke because a bird was pecking at the lens. So it would. The camera would go off every second when the wind was blowing on it, so I'd turn it off.

Speaker 3: 16:05

So I didn't have much information on there. I just looked back and said you know what? I know there was good deer back here. Good sign, I'm gonna head back here and boom, just like that. It uh right first thing in the morning cats and dogs, man, it was pouring down rain and I, I love actually hunting in the rain. Now I see tons of deer in the rain. I got two doe down in the rain earlier in the season and I I love actually hunting in the rain. Now I see tons of deer in the rain. I got two doe down the rain earlier in the season and, uh, I've seen multiple deer sit in the woods while it's pouring.

Speaker 2: 16:32

So if it's pouring down rain, that's a time I'm going to be out in the woods going forward I think that's something that when we talked to bradley that's that's what he said to as well uh, when we interviewed him last year, it's like the rain, like when it's raining, he just loves to be out in the rain.

Speaker 2: 16:47

Because they're moving, it's true, like you hear about a lot like, yeah, they will be bedded down, but they are going to get up and move, of course, like any other creature. So you know it's the perfect time to take advantage of it, and you're also not gonna get as much hunting pressure as probably usually you're gonna get, because a lot of people are sitting at home and you know, oh, it's raining, I don't want to be out. Listen, I try to be out in all the nasty conditions because you know what they still have to move. They're, they're still going to be moving, they're still going to be. So you got to take advantage of of those weather patterns and those changes and whether it's rain, snow, anything like that. Like you have to kind of get on it yeah, and after the fact.

Speaker 3: 17:28

So I read something where, like the darker, it is like if it's midday and it's darker outside, the deer they move based off the changes in light. This is what I read. I don't know how accurate this is, but uh, so a darker day it kind of seems like it's more like the evening for them, so there's something that triggers their brain or whatever to get them up and moving. And now that I read that, I look back and think about a lot of things. Like I do see deer a lot when it's raining. Now, when I drive home every day from work when it's raining, I always find deer outside somewhere. So I I do kind of back that up a little bit, but I do. I talked to brad about that hunting in the rain a while ago about that. He kind of got me hooked on it to start getting out more in the rain. And now I'm it's all when I, if it's raining, I'm gonna be out there. You're like, yes, rain on the forecast, all right, I going out hunting.

Speaker 2: 18:24

If there's hail or a tornado or strong winds, I might stay inside Most people are looking to take off, you know, on the sunny days and you know the beautiful days, but no, we're looking to take off on those rainy days.

Speaker 3: 18:40

Well, you know, speaking about taking off, we can't hunt Sundays here. That's right. A lot of pa hunters really want to hunt sundays. I, I honestly, am cool if we don't need to, if they don't, if they keep that rule where you can't hunt sundays, because that's like the one day where my trail cameras can go off and I won't be mad if there's a trail camera, if there's a big buck that goes right in front of my stand, I won't be upset Not that I'm upset, but I won't be frustrated that I'm not there. And it's that one day. It's just kind of another day to relax, reset, watch some football and get ready for the Monday or the upcoming week.

Speaker 2: 19:20

I'm not going to lie, I don't get me wrong. I love hunting on Sunday, I do. But I do like like when Christmas, our only really day where we can't legally hunt is Christmas and I think that that's for everybody, Right. But it's like all right, you have no worries in the world, Like you don't care, it's like all right, I actually get to like do stuff. So I completely understand where it's like all right. On Sunday, it's our date. Well, I'm a huge football guy and I hate sometimes having to just watch on this phone and I'll be like in the tree. I'm a huge fantasy football player.

Speaker 1: 19:58

So like.

Speaker 2: 19:59

I am watching football like crazy, like I got it and I got the headphone in, I'm setting up so I can, so I can watch and everything like that. But then sometimes I have to drag myself out of bed to go hunting. But I really want to just sit in bed, watch, watch the games, have a few drinks, you know, maybe eat some food and hang out with people. But no, if, if I decide to stay and my camera goes off, I will lose my, I'll lose my mind. It would ruin my whole entire day yeah, that's uh.

Speaker 3: 20:31

That's why I'm glad right now, sundays we can't hunt. Now they are actually proposing a rule that we may be able to hunt this year on sundays, which that'll be a big change. Every sunday, I mean, we get a couple of sundays out of the year that we can hunt for archery and rifle, but I think they're looking at making a serious change of no hunting on or hunting on Sundays. It's more of a traditional thing right now just to always have Sundays off for hunting. So we'll see what happens with that and do you?

Speaker 2: 20:59

because I know, you know PA is a big tradition, you know this is what you know PA lives and dies for. It's like people take off of school and everything like that. But do you think that adding the extra day throughout throughout the, every day, every Sunday, through the season, is that going to have any effect, you think, on hunting pressure on? You know, deer movement, on the deer numbers, do you? Do you worry about that at all? Or have you heard of people worry about that at all? Do you? Or have you heard of people worrying about that at all? Or no people you know they just want to hunt on sundays because the extra weekend, you know, and they have time that's a great question.

Speaker 3: 21:33

I honestly don't know what other people you know, because people have a lot of people have families and they're used to sunday is their day. If, if they're a big hunting family, sund Sunday is their day to relax, spend time with the kids, with the family. So they may say, oh well, I'm just gonna keep Sunday off or maybe go go out for a couple hours instead of all day. I mean, I could definitely see that change in the numbers and the deer population. I mean, it's just another how many days? What 10 more days add to the season or so? So I don't know, we'll have to, we'll have to wait and see what happens.

Speaker 2: 22:08

Yeah, yeah, that's gonna be an interesting one. I'm really. You know, I've heard of people wanting sundays, but then I've also like, yeah, it's, it's family day. It's usually. I know a lot of people go to church on sundays. You know a lot of people eat family dinners on sunday, or lunch or whatever. So like it's a, it's a mix-up right and it's like, oh well, you don't have to hunt. But yeah, of course we don't have to. But if the day is available, it's like it's going to eat us alive if, if we're really not in the woods. So it's like he said eat it eat you alive.

Speaker 3: 22:40

Yeah, personally, for me I think it would be like a a morning thing, maybe an evening thing, a few hours out of the day. Yeah, because I mean now, if I don't hunt a lot during the week, then that sunday would be utilized to hunt, obviously. But I gotta, you know, balance out family and hunting.

Speaker 2: 23:03

Yeah, yeah, but that that's a, that's a hell, of hell of a buck, and you know, and to to have it go down to like, yeah, it's a, it's a big breath of fresh air and it's like, all right, finally, yeah. It was the weight off the shoulders.

Speaker 3: 23:19

There was a ton, yeah, a lot of weight off the shoulders in november. Whenever november first hit. Now, maybe like november 5th, hits with hunt, with whitetail, that's when I start. I don't panic, but I get a little frustrated not frustrated antsy and anxious. Because now it's the ruts deer are everywhere, people are gonna be even everywhere, because a lot of people like to take rockations and then seasons come winding down. So I get a little anxious. That's why I can find a good buck in in october on that. That's when I'm taking him. I'd love to get a september buck. That was my goal this year.

Speaker 2: 23:58

We're gonna see if that happens next year, hopefully yeah, hopefully, hopefully you get doesn't getting a september deer, like I'll personally tell you, it makes life just so much easier because all that pressure I like getting deer out the way, like there's just a lot of anxiety going into later in the season, especially like the year that I had. This year, like I, I don't even know what the hell happened. Right, you were out a lot I was out, out a lot.

Speaker 2: 24:25

A lot. I passed a lot of deer and I passed a lot of does right, because when I was seeing does, I had no interest in shooting does because it was time to shoot one of the big boys. You know, when I had to shoot a doe before I can get the big boy like I had bucks moving during daylight and I was just off the season, I was off, straight up off. But as the time goes on, you're starting to worry. It's like, alright, I need to get it done. I need to get it done. It's not a good feeling because you feel like you have to be in the woods, you have to do this.

Speaker 3: 25:01

Social media doesn't help you.

Speaker 1: 25:03

No, no have to do this. Social media doesn't help you. No, no, no, no, no, no, god, no, no, keep going, no, no. Because then, especially like for me, what I was going to say is like, especially when it starts getting to that time and you start feeling like, you start getting antsy, you start feeling the pressure, like I noticed that's when I started making like the really stupid mistakes, because I'm like I have to get one, or or I have to go after there, and then you, you know, you always make some kind of stupid mistake and it costs you.

Speaker 3: 25:34

Yeah, maybe too aggressive sometimes or holding back too much. Yup, yeah.

Speaker 2: 25:41

And you know, I think that the the good thing about boondocks hunting is I have it's a lot easier now that I have other guys right when it was, when it's yourself and I imagine and you know you and brad, you guys do a lot of stuff together, so that also helps as well. But, like for people out there that just have it as them and stuff in there they're running a page or whatever the case is like you can't really afford on social media, it seems like to to not at least you want, right, and you, you get this pressure because now all these people are looking at you and, and you know you, it seems like you're talking a big game on social. Whatever the case is, yeah, it adds a unnecessary pressure, I think. I think to a lot of hunters and then also the size, like, oh, you have to shoot a big buck, or you can't shoot this or you can't shoot that, and it's like, uh, well, that everyone has their own belief.

Speaker 2: 26:36

If you say, hey, you know what, this is my goal this year and I'm holding out, and to, that's that's what I did this year. Right, I, I held out and I completely, I took that tag suit. But if I, or if anyone would say, hey, you know, I'm gonna go shoot this four pointer, I'm gonna shoot because that's I need meat in the freezer. I I respect the hell out of it. Like, do what you want to do. Yeah, if you have goals, go for those goals.

Speaker 3: 26:59

If you don't, and you just want to shoot, shoot whatever you want you know a deer and the thing is, nobody knows what a deer is going to do. Deer will, will be deer and nobody has an answer of exactly what's going to happen or you know so many everybody is probably happened to. Is you see a deer walking in and boom, it bangs a left real quick and done you never see, see it again, you know it's, there's nothing you can pot.

Speaker 3: 27:27

Yeah, you could have sat closer to that area, you could have done that, but did you know that? I mean, we don't, we don't know.

Speaker 2: 27:35

So we can use that all throughout life. We could do this. You could always look like and it's it happens all the time Like it's like all right and you think that deer's coming back and it's like damn, it's like, oh man, I've had that happen where I thought I'd get another crack at that deer and I haven't seen certain bucks ever since and it's like, oh my God, I wasted the one. And then I had full draw two years ago. You know Kong, big, big 10-pointer, 12 yards, just running all around, couldn't get him to stop it. I was like all right, like he was here today, so I'm going to have another shot at him. I'm going to have another shot at him. I haven't seen him since.

Speaker 3: 28:14

It's like, oh man, going off of that, one of the misses I had, man. So this deer I'm after, I call him Big Boy, right, and I had a buck in. He started in at 20 yards and I was. It was a good deer, good quality deer. I would have shot him any day of the week. I got my bow ready and everything. He's broadside 20 yards. I could have nailed him right there and cause I did a little rattle sequence and he came in looking and I didn't shoot him. I went. Well, I ended up shooting at him but I waited because I'm fighting back a bigger deer, which that's a big regret I had in the season. I should have just shot the deer and anyway he ended up moving to 40 yards. I thought he was 30 yards and I missed him. But I had the opportunity to steal the duo right then and there and I blew it, completely, blew it.

Speaker 2: 29:07

So that one, that one, bit me pretty hard because I just let an opportunity go by, and that's the name of the game. Sometimes it really is.

Speaker 3: 29:22

That's why I'm a kind of against. I keep saying I'm good, I have this deer I'm going after, and then I'm all excited, I'm talking about it and it's like, well, when the season comes, if I see another big deer, I'm definitely, I'm shooting it. You know, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not waiting for this big deer. If it's, if it's a deer, it's got a good rack. That pleases me. It's going down.

Speaker 2: 29:46

I get, um, the last couple years I've gotten so hooked on specific bucks and I said next year I'm not doing that, next year I am not. And I was so hooked on this one where I was bouncing everywhere looking for where he was bedded and I found it and we were just on just two different pages. When I was there he wouldn't show up. But then, when you know, I had something to do, he showed up and it was just one. I couldn't go after him any further because he was bedded on private. But I got right up into like where I could get, and that's a story and I count. I counted that as a win. I was very proud of myself for that. I did everything correct except for the last step. Right, that that's it, you know, and it's like that. But I told myself I go, I spent, I think, all of november chasing him, yeah, I think all of november chasing him, yeah, and go ahead.

Speaker 3: 30:36

the one step you missed, that one percent of shooting the deer you had. You had that encounter that you probably spent time reading maps scouting looking for sign. He showed up, so you won. You found the deer. You just didn't do that final 1% Exactly.

Speaker 2: 30:52

Exactly, and that's how we have to look at it, because you know, to shoot them it's a whole other, that's the whole other step and it's another milestone in the thing. But these are really unique animals that they, they just know how to survive. They know how to outsmart us way better than we know how to outsmart them, and that's for damn sure we're in their home and they're crazy, crazy smart, yeah, um now your your second buck you shot. Let's go to that story. So yeah, the ohio buck.

Speaker 3: 31:25

So, yeah, I got the october 30th pa buck. And then I'm just like brad was hunting a buck in ohio and we didn't get to spend much time hunting. So I said let's go out and hunt. He said all right. And uh, it was just like so out of the blue because really didn't know where we were hunting. I didn't know where I was going hunting until the day of the morning of and uh, so we're driving, I go to his place in the morning, ohio. And we ended up deciding on one of the spots to go to because he had a few spots and kind of came to a conclusion of all right, we're going to spot whatever. And we're driving there. And he's driving my truck because the night before he sent me a screenshot, a screenshot of where we might be hunting on onyx, and I couldn't do much with a screenshot on my phone. So I just kind of threw my phone down and said, all right, I'll take care of this.

Speaker 3: 32:17

In the morning, and, uh, we're looking at it and I saw a couple I was, he was kind of describing the area to me and I saw this nice point, I wanted to hunt. It looked good, wind matched it, whatever. So I said, all right, I'm gonna hunt down here. And when I was walking in I got lost a little bit. I didn't have my phone out to kind of see where I was going. So I was way off to the right and I came down to this nice bench and there was a big drainage right there and that drainage led to another point. So when I got down there I turned my headlamp on and was walking. I saw a nice big pile of poop there and it was by itself, and I also saw some leaves that were kicked up. So my first, first thought was all right, this looks like it could possibly be a buck. It was a big pile by itself and those leaves I mean it was within the last five hours or so. So anyway, I decided to set up right next to that drainage, hopefully trying to catch something coming back from point to point, because there was two points, thinking that there would be doe bedding on there. And anyway I set up, and eight o'clock rolls around and it's quiet.

Speaker 3: 33:31

And then the previous, the night before, I said, all right, I had some luck rattling deer in this year, so I'm gonna give a nice little tinkle at nine o'clock. And I did that for like a sequence like 30 seconds, and then five minutes goes by and I just start here I hear something. I see a big body, deer, I don't know, probably like 50 or 60 yards away, and I just saw, like white, the horns. So I said, all right, I'm shooting if this, I don't care what the size is, I'm shooting this deer, deer. And then I get a glimpse of him. I see pretty decent sized horns I don't really know how big he is at this point. I just see a nice rack and he turns that drainage and now he's facing towards me and he's man.

Speaker 3: 34:19

He was, he was pissed, he was scraping trees or scraping, making scrapes, rubbing trees. And while he was rubbing one of the trees, I saw five antlers on one side I can only see one side because it was kind of thick where he was at and I'm like, oh boy, this is a shooter. And um, and I was just like this guy's going down man, I got this is my second time hunting in ohio for the year and uh, I I'm sealing this right here. And he was anyway, he's sitting there. This all seemed like it would take, took a while, but it was really probably five minutes or so. And so he's rubbing, scraping trees and he starts walking towards me and for some reason, you know, I don't usually look like at the antlers whenever a deer's coming in. Really, I just don't pay attention to it most of the times. And uh, so I didn't even pay attention that this whole process I just saw the big body and which direction he was heading and he had it right in front of me was coming broadside, probably about 15 yards, and I I draw back because he needed to make one more step and he, right when I draw back, he stopped and my wind was probably just missing him.

Speaker 3: 35:34

Maybe even he might have got a whiff of me, I don't know. But he stopped there and put his head up like this, like he was, he was sniffing something and 45 seconds or so I'm drawing back, just waiting for him to take one more step. Take that step, don't turn around, let's go. And uh, well, what do you know? He ended up taking that step. I said let this arrow fly and let it rip hit him in the lungs. He ran down a little to the little bottom and I was watching him and I'm watching him. He was sitting there. He's like what the heck happened. And then I see him do a little wobble, you know, and from that point on it was kind of like a blackout again within the deer community. So I was pretty confident that he was going down there.

Speaker 3: 36:24

So I lost my cool a little bit and did a little celebration of excitement and gave Brad a call. It's funny. I called him I'm like dude, I got a deer, I got a buck. He's like is it big? I'm like dude, I got a deer or I got a buck. He's like is it big? I'm like I think he's like my camera's been going off all morning. Like six different bucks walked by his other camera. So I tore my stuff down and we went back up to the truck to meet up with him, put some stuff away, we walked down and now I was like okay, I never saw this deer fall. So we were having trouble finding blood at first because I made the mistake of going to pinpoint where I hit him at before I left. But I could smell him when I went down there. I could smell the deer and, uh, so he finds blood. We start tracking, tracking it. And Brad like starts yelling and I didn't see nothing. And he was getting me amped up because his excitement.

Speaker 3: 37:26

And he's like all right, you lead the way. And next thing, you know, I see this big old deer sitting there in a big rack and you know I was expecting to shoot. I thought the deer was going to be in the 120s 130 range and, holy cow, I was not expecting the deer to be that size. It was way bigger than I imagined, ever imagined. And I see him there and I run up to him, man, and he took me back to his little area. There was a huge scrape there. The whole area was torn up with rubs and there he was, laying right there and man, that deer, that body was, was huge and people have been saying that's ohio deer for you man, I keep hearing.

Speaker 2: 38:10

I keep hearing how big ohio deer and, like I, I'm hoping that next year will be the first year we get up to ohio. Um, but it's what. What would? Did you guys get him scored? What was he actually scored at?

Speaker 3: 38:23

so I didn't necessarily. I didn't score me, I was gonna score him. When I got him back. Um, people have been saying I'm not the best with judging deer but from what everyone's, my buddies are telling me probably mid 150s, um. So when I got him back I went to score him, just scoring myself. Um, I can't take a deer across the state line from Ohio to PA, so usually I take it to my dad to see, anyway. So when I got it back, I brought it over to my parents' place and I was going to score it there and my dad was all excited and he basically just picked it up, looked at it out of excitement and he hung it up on the wall before I really put my hands back on. The way it's rigged into the wall is, if you take it off, it's going to be very hard to put the deer back on the wall. So when I get the time, I have the time, but whenever I get next time I'm over I'm gonna put a tape measure on them and give it a Alex official score.

Speaker 2: 39:18

So once I get that, that's great dad was like, uh yeah, no, this thing's going up right away. This is, is it the biggest buck in the house?

Speaker 3: 39:28

yeah, oh yeah, it's uh, it's huge and it's funny because it's right next to so when my dad's got his deer in there too, hanging on the wall, and he hasn't gone. He hasn't been out in a few years, but back in the day whenever I was younger, he would be shooting deer and we didn't have antler restrictions then. So his deer are. They're like six points, four points, whatever, and the size of these of these deer, the necks are. The ohio deer is double the size of some of these deer.

Speaker 3: 39:58

I'm like, is this just a PA versus Ohio thing, or are these deer usually just smaller? And I looked at a decent deer I got in PA and it's the same thing. The neck of this thing is double the size of this mature PA buck I have, I'm like holy smokes. So yeah, he's definitely the biggest deer we got on that wall right now, which it's good because it's like his favorite room in the house. It's like not his man cave, maybe it is his man cave, but the computer room and he's got all these deer heads on the wall and there should not be. There's like 20 heads now and the room just does not fit 20 deer heads.

Speaker 3: 40:41

He just throws them up he just throws them up on the wall and you know I got we'll see if we can fit anymore. I told him I'm gonna keep bringing these deer heads here until there's literally no room at all where we cannot put another head in here and then I'll bring them over to my place.

Speaker 3: 40:59

But I like bringing them there just because he's been there for every deer I got. That was the one he wasn't there for. Yeah, it's cool, so they're. They're just as good of a memory to him as they are to me, because he'll drive out my first archery buck I got. Uh, he drove, I told him I got one and he ended up literally driving over. It was like two hours and he hiked up the whole mountain. He complains about his knees being bad, but then, as soon as I tell him I get a deer down, it's like he's 25 again, running up, running up and down hills, dragging deer. I love it. I love that. It's a, it's a family memory that I like to keep.

Speaker 2: 41:39

That room, oh, yeah that's that's amazing, that that's. That's honestly amazing. Um, like dad's like, yep, all right, two hours, yeah, no problem, I'll be there, don't worry.

Speaker 3: 41:52

Well, I mean too. I mean he's even driven further. I got when I lived out northeastern p. I shot this real nice um, this nice buck, and I sent a picture to him, like literally after I wrote. I was walking up to him, I started facetiming him. I had got one and he's like, all right, I'm gonna drive up. And he ended up driving four and a half hours up to see it and by the time I got it dragged out because it was, it was a long drag I had he pulled up, so it was like perfect timing. But like it's, it's a memory thing. That's why I do it, that's why I keep bringing it in this place.

Speaker 2: 42:25

That is that that's so cool. Um, but with that deer it is so unique. How because you, literally you got lost. Yeah, yeah, you turned your lamp on. You found really good sign, right, and then you set up.

Speaker 2: 42:44

First of all, in that aspect of a loan, yeah, you could have got. You know where you needed to go, and there are bucks going there too. But it's like so many things could have gone wrong, but they went correct. You know, you could have turned on your light and you may have missed. You know all the side and everything like that, you know. Or even when you said you needed that deer to take one more step, it's like, well, what happens if you wouldn't have taken? Just would have just gotten away from your set, like there is so much, but it's a game of inches and everything worked out perfectly. It did.

Speaker 3: 43:23

And like, if I had a trail camera set up, like this deer I hunt better.

Speaker 3: 43:24

Whenever I'm going into a property where I have no information information on or like historical data on, I'm just I don't overthink things, like I have cameras set up after this other deer and I overthink the shit out of everything. I'm like, oh well, he's doing this, this and that. And it came back to bite me the one time, the one time I was gonna, I had a camera all off season. I have camera set up and I, when I look at these pictures from these deer, from the camera, I think, okay, the wind, the direction they're coming from, where they're going, I analyze it. But as soon as the season hits and a deer shows up on camera, I go hunt that camera.

Speaker 3: 44:02

And I don't hunt what I should be hunting. You know I I don't uh think outside the box, like I do during the off season, of, well, where are they going? I just I go right to that camera. So that's why this year I'm like I have literally seven cameras sitting behind me because I'm going to set them tomorrow. But I really I'm. I'm probably going to put them on their cell cameras, so I'm probably going to put them on um, like they you can make whenever you get cameras sent into you, something like that, because they I mean this they really detail where my thought process on what I want to do and how I want to hunt them.

Speaker 3: 44:43

I was going to hunt this one spot All day, I plan on hunting spot A and then, literally, as I'm pulling up, I went to hunt spot B and the buck showed up where I was initially going to hunt on camera. So then I hunted that same spot five straight days in a row and I didn't see a single deer. All because that deer showed up on camera right there. I just blew five days.

Speaker 2: 45:09

And the same thing as you, yeah me too, and I think that's the downside of camera, and I think you're definitely nowhere near close to being the only person that, like you, we overthink it, we overanalyze everything because now there's so much data and into it, and we watch all these shows and listen to all of these podcasts, and I I'm guilty of it too.

Speaker 2: 45:32

We talk all these these things here where it's like all right, well, the wind has to be this way and this has to be this way and okay, yada, yada, out of the moon phase and everything has to be perfect, you know, and, oh man, listen, a trail cam picture here and I so I have to go to that spot, but the spot I really wanted to hunt is the spot that I shouldn't hunted, because that was going to be where, where a deer was going to be. Like, yeah, running all these cameras just makes us, I think, lose our minds and it's like, literally, it's it's a blessing and a curse because they, they are so useful they're such a useful tool it's great seeing when you wake up in the morning for a week and you have like seven notifications on your phone.

Speaker 3: 46:19

Yeah, or when you wake up in the morning for a week and you have like seven notifications on your phone, or when you wake up in the middle of the night, you see picture taken. It's, it's great, I love that. But again, it definitely changes my thought process when it comes to being in the woods and if like, didn't Kansas ban cell cameras?

Speaker 2: 46:38

I'm not sure if it was camp, but I know, I know like two states have already banned and I was actually about to bring that up I think two have already banned trail cameras personally, I feel like a population of hunters would actually like that in a way.

Speaker 3: 46:55

I'm just speaking, I don't know, but personally I, I would uh definitely help a little bit, let's see, um, yeah, so definitely one is.

Speaker 2: 47:06

One is definitely kansas. Um, I'm not sure where the other one is, maybe it is just one, but this is what I. I would say I would even be okay with you know what, during the off season you can run cameras. Right during actual hunting season, no more cameras. That might help, because I do like gaining the intel and I do like seeing these bucks grow and you know, the animals interact and everything like that. Like I do like that, that process. But I think it would help in two ways. We want to overthink things and our bank account would be a lot better and a lot nicer.

Speaker 3: 47:48

Oh, gosh, yeah, yeah. I just bought two packs of batteries yesterday. It was 50 bucks.

Speaker 1: 47:54

I was like, oh yeah, listen, batteries are killing me, on top of all the monthly fees.

Speaker 2: 48:00

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 48:04

Those sneak up on you Sometimes you know, those are coming out.

Speaker 2: 48:08

Right and you forget about it. You absolutely forget about it, and it's like you're like, oh, why was this money taken out? It's like, oh, wait, okay, yeah, no Trail camera.

Speaker 3: 48:20

I'm not at the point yet where I'm gonna go to non-cell cameras, because I I just get too excited seeing deer pop up and yeah, I just don't.

Speaker 2: 48:31

For this time of the year I run sds um, I'm gonna be pulling all my. I haven't had time um, but I'm about to be pulling on Probably, if not all, probably like 90% of my my cell cameras and maybe I'll leave a couple up. Take it, take a couple months off of you know, saving up some money.

Speaker 1: 48:50

No, baton, you know, don't have to worry about any of that.

Speaker 2: 48:52

I'll just throw out some SD cameras, you know. And then you know that prime probably like rolling into summertime. You know that, just alright, rolling into summertime? You know that? Just all right, let's start hanging them again. Don't want to really spend any too much time in there if I don't, if I don't have to, and and just go go by that. But, um, you know something I've also noticed about you. You know you're, you're big on hunting, you know the terrain features and you know different stuff like that I've been seeing with your scouting too. You're, you're, you're moving the crews and getting boots on the ground, like when, when you're checking out a new hunt. So like, say, you're going to I don't know. Let's say you're going to kansas right on a public land hunt. I mean the terrain features there are not. But like what, what? What would you be looking for? And you know what's something that you'd'd be looking on the map at first, before you even get boots on the ground.

Speaker 3: 49:42

So yeah, I'd start with a map and then I kind of look at it as a whole, of the different terrain features, what's on there, how they line up with one another, like this point leads to a ridge, is there an ag field up top, down below all those and then I usually will just find after I'm analyzing all the terrain features and I said before, I do like points a lot, I have a lot of success with points so usually there's always a point somewhere in the spot that I like the most. But then once I find a core area where I could see something that's diverse different terrain features or even very small little terrain features that sometimes on a map it looks like just a little divot, well, that might be a big deer path right there. So like, for example, I just scouted a new property north of me and it's I don't know how many acres it is, but looking at a map I had like four spots that I liked. So I went and walked, just walked it. You know, I didn't really spend time in each spot walked to spot one, snooped around a little bit, walked to the other spot, snooped around and so forth, and then I went back again and then I really dug deep into that, one of those spots, right where there's a very nice edge.

Speaker 3: 51:04

Okay, now you're getting boots on the ground, you're finding the deer, paths are taken where they're bedding. You know, confirming. You look at a map and you say there could be bedding right here, there could be traveling here. Now I'm confirming of where these beds are at, where the edges, edges are, where they're taking these, where their travel routes are, finding the food source, of saying, okay, the bed's here, okay, let's check out, there's a food source over here. Let's see if there's a pattern or some trails leading from this bedding area to the food source, feeding, from this bedding area to the food source.

Speaker 3: 51:43

So really, just putting everything together, at that point of bed to food, you find scrapes. Those are always good signs, especially if they're freshly hit, when they're hitting those where they're coming from. And then you find a bed. Or you find a bed, you can kind of determine or make a prediction on what the wind would have been, what the dominant wind would have been. Same with rubs, the travel of direction, a lot if there's like a rub line, and then kind of, I know my mind just works as if boom. Okay, you're doing, possibly doing this, coming from here, going there, feeding here. So that was a lot in one, but let's we can break that down some more. You're on, I don't.

Speaker 2: 52:26

you're on mute yeah, you're muted, my bad. It's like when, uh, in the hangover, when alan was, you know, doing the counting card thing, and you just see all the numbers and everything like like coming together.

Speaker 2: 52:36

That's what's going on in your head and probably like a lot of our heads like, yeah, um, you know, and and I like I said that you know when you're looking at a rub line, you you got a great idea where that deer is going, where it's coming from, where it's going to, and that, right, there is a lot to work with. And I do love what looking at rub lines because, like, all right, there we go, we, we know what direction that deer is coming in into and then you can kind of base off the wind too of if it's heading towards a food source or something.

Speaker 3: 53:08

He may be scent checking that food source, you know quartering it, so the wind could be coming towards his face. But again I've seen deer travel both with the wind to a food source and with the wind to their back. So again, deer do deer things is just all an assumption, but it's backed up a lot of times, a lot of times, it is backed up.

Speaker 2: 53:30

But then you know, yet again, it's like sometimes deer love to do things that just like we plan for one thing and they just do the exact opposite thing and it's like, well, what the hell? Like you know, and I always, when I do set up, I am making sure that I set up for what I think a deer is going to do, but I also have to remind myself like I can't get caught being lazy or slacking, because you know what A lot of the times deer come out from behind me. They do things that I'm not expecting. So I'm always on the lookout, I'm always focusing I gotta put that in in my memory and in my brain of when I am picking out a spotter and when I'm scouting. What is? What would a deer do if they were doing what the direct opposite thing that I am expecting them to? Because most likely I'm telling you that deer is probably, that deer is probably going to do it, and then I'm going to be completely screwed.

Speaker 3: 54:25

um, you know, and it's just, it's just one of those things that it's like it's a never-ending game it's like they've outsmarted us at this point where they know we're thinking they're doing the opposite, but yeah, yeah, you're, you nailed it there it's. There's always a time where they just I can think of one right now they just don't do what deer should, what people say deer do?

Speaker 3: 54:48

yeah, I agree I pretty much agree, but it's um, oh, go ahead I'll say that's just the normal breakdown I'll do when I'm scouting like a new property. And then if I'm well, you know, if I know the property really well, it just a lot of things just makes so much more sense. Um, when I find sign like oh, this, may you know, no wonder why they're using this trail to get into this thicket or and whatnot. So just keep learning off of that. And then, once you're familiar with an area, you just learn more about that. And then, once you're familiar with any, you just learn more about that deer. That if you're after one in there, at that point, like you said, you had a target buck and you probably know a whole bunch about it at this point. Yeah, it's a fun process it.

Speaker 2: 55:31

It's a very fun process. Now you know, when you're going now, say, you scouted e-scouter, then you got boots on the ground and you kind of found the sign that you're looking for and you find the deer that that you're that you're really looking for. You know, how many cameras are you usually deploying? Are you deploying one, are you deploying multiple, or does it depend on you know, does it?

Speaker 3: 55:49

depend on multiple things. So two years ago, my first year using a camera, I just had one. Now I have seven at this point, but I scatter them around different properties, like all throughout the property, not just one specific location, and usually where what's getting hit the most or a deer that I like, I'll just kind of use that one camera, because a lot of the times I just like honestly don't feel like going to grab the other cameras and just let them soak. But this year I'm going to put it right now. I'm planning on putting it all around this one area I'm thinking about putting up near the food sources, though. So this is a piece of public land that gets hit pretty hard and uh, like we mentioned before, of cameras ruining your, your thought process, I'm I'm honestly just thinking about putting them all along the edges of these, of these fields, because I'm not going to hunt these fields because they're there's just too much pressure.

Speaker 3: 56:53

These deer know not to go out there. To go out there during the daylight, I'm cool, I'm okay with getting them at night or in the evening. At this point, because I could think back okay, where are they coming from, um, which direction? And then I can, I can like backtrack them from there. Okay, so if they're coming out from the top at 10 at night versus two at night, then maybe they're betting closer to where they're coming out. If it's 10, verse 2, and I do have one along this, this nice training feature, it's like a little edge and micro drainage where, uh, I like that sick because it's right outside of bedding. So if I know I'm confident where a deer is bedding, I'm gonna put it around that area too. I'm really I'll be. I'm not the best with trail cam replacement, just because I'm still kind of new to them. Um, but I don't know. I, if I find a nice train feature, nice sign, I'm putting a camera on it. Really, if I have it available.

Speaker 2: 57:54

I think it's hit or hit or miss sometimes like um, I, I think you could literally and we've I've talked about it before you know, I've talked about it with you know gavin from white tail bloodline, where he literally had it facing one way, nothing, all he did was move it a little bit and boom he was getting. He was getting deer pictures, like sometimes that's just how it works, like I've had cameras where it's like I know there's deer in the area just by all the sign that's around, but I just have it pointed in the wrong direction. I have it like it's like like we get it's.

Speaker 3: 58:29

It can be very misleading yeah, and I I am being a little biased just because I'm starting to realize that show cameras are affecting my mental game a little bit, how I fake.

Speaker 3: 58:41

So yeah, but like, let me back re-answer that question a little bit. Um, along heavy trails I'm gonna find usually you're gonna get doe there if there's a few oaks in an area, I'm gonna, and I see there's feeding, I'm gonna put something, I'm gonna put a camera out there. Um, if I see like a little faint trail and that's where I actually found big boy last year just there's a main trail and then down below there was another trail which you could tell a difference between a heavy used trail and a non-heavily used trail. The non-heavy used trail had rubs all along it and scrapes, so that was telling me all right, a buck's using this to as a security blanket trail or to get downwind of these deer. So I put a camera there and when you know, big boy showed up. So those little distinct features, I'll put cameras on again. I only I only have seven of them right now and I don't have a plan right now.

Speaker 2: 59:38

I really don't have a plan how I'm going to do it this year yet that's, yeah, it's, it's you, you'll, you'll figure it out and you'll, you'll definitely find out the process. Now another that, that buck that you shot, that has the Paul made it. You shot that. Right, the Paul made it side, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:00:00

What year? When was that? What was that? 19 or 20? Let me see.

Speaker 2: 1:00:08

That's an absolutely beautiful deer 2019 or 2020.

Speaker 3: 1:00:11

So I got him in PA, or Northeastern PA, that deer was. He came right up at 7 o'clock and he was, it was, he was a rifle and broadside shot him and, uh, he man, I I didn't at that point I was, I wasn't playing really the wind much, but looking back at it makes sense, cause right when the sun came up in the morning he came over this top and was starting to come down. It looked like he was traveling into this little pine thicket and, uh, I heard him come up behind me and I didn't know it was a buck at that first, because it was still kind of dark out, but I had a feeling it was because I just heard one deer and, uh, he popped right up and, man, that was a heck of a drag out. That was I. I was uh carrying them out like I was. I didn't have a drag on me or anything, so I was using my hands and I was, I think, like two miles out and I had my rifle off my back.

Speaker 3: 1:01:11

I'll never forget this. I'm walking backwards and I'm going over all these little rocks because it's on this ridge and I fall back and I slip land right on my back. I look to my left. There's just a hunter standing right there watching me.

Speaker 2: 1:01:26

I'm sorry could you imagine if he was filming and he got. He got that on camera that was good though did he say anything to you? Was he like, oh, congratulations. Was he laughing like? Did he say anything?

Speaker 3: 1:01:41

he didn't say anything. But when I got back to like three hours later, when I got back to the car, he ended up walking back and, uh, he's like next time get a drag, he's gonna drag it out thanks for the help yeah, that's, that's funny.

Speaker 3: 1:01:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah so that was, um, he was a good deer, that was, that was my uh, bigger one and he had the taxidermist said something about it, so half of his side was being, uh, I forget what the insects are called, but they eat the, the bone marrow and the bone. So it was there's, it's like hollow a little bit at the top, like you could stick your finger in the antler, and he said that's from something eating it out. But he might have got hit by a car too, because that whole half of the rack was broken off, um, at the tip, and then he had some bruises on him, on his body as well that's really unique yeah yeah, he's a.

Speaker 3: 1:02:43

He's a good deer yeah, no, that's a.

Speaker 2: 1:02:46

That's a. That's a pretty cool one. So, um, you know you. You said your your dad was a hunter. You know, usually we start off with the history first, but we're we're doing it reverse today. So what, what was it like growing up?

Speaker 3: 1:02:58

you know, in the outdoors, what were some of your first memories and and stuff like that uh, my first memory I was five or six and my I grew up in a hunting family and I had an older brother four years older than me, so he was being taught how to hunt with everything he was always taught first and I always wanted to kind of, you know, follow the brother right, do what he was doing. So as soon as he went out hunting when he was 12, um, I went out hunting, but the first time I went out was probably five or six, with my dad, my brother, my uncles. We would go out, we'd get a camp up north every year and I would just kind of follow my dad's footprints. At that point I carried like a bb gun with me and pretending I was like a completely unloaded BB gun, thinking you know I was doing something. But uh, he always taught me the. You know, gun safety was always number one with him. You know he wouldn't let me touch a gun until he was felt good that I was, that I was confident with one. So, yeah, I would see him hunt, see him shoot deer and you know, just seeing that stuff at a young age, I fell in love with it and then, when I turned 12, I was illegally allowed to hunt and it was mostly rifle hunting growing up my whole life, you know you'd go out a couple times and then wait until next season. I didn't really do much scouting or anything, but I would always ask you know when's hunting season? When's hunting season? How much longer till hunting season?

Speaker 3: 1:04:24

Um, and then I got a bow when I was 12 as well. It wasn't really a, a hunting bow, just like a youth, I don't know. It wasn't a plastic bow either. And uh, we shoot targets and I don't remember if I had like I didn't have a, a release or anything at that point. I don't even know if I had a sight on it. No, I did, but I would be able to hit the target. So it was some type of bow that was for beginners and I honestly love that. And then got my first archery buck. I forget what year that was.

Speaker 3: 1:05:01

Well before that I was hunting with my dad in the back. I wasn't really hunting, but there were these doe that came real close to me, really close. The first time I've ever really been that close to to a group of deer that were living, and it was like I'll never forget it. It was the coolest thing. I just climbed a tree. There was no tree stand, it was a big old oak tree. I know nothing about hunting. These deer were were 10 yards from me and they didn't know I was there and it was just so fascinating. So from that point on it was really all just downhill hunting, man and uh.

Speaker 3: 1:05:37

And then I switched to a crossbow when I was 16, probably used that for a few years and I got a couple deer down with that and that was a great change I made. Or you know, I always wanted, I wanted, really wanted, a crossbow when I was, after you know, shooting when I was younger and I got one one year and that got me kind of more into the woods, more shooting, more practicing and everything, taking every opportunity I can get and fast forward a little bit graduated and said you know what these compound bows look, awesome, I want one. Got a tax return I'm like you know what, buying a compound bow with this thing. And then I just really hit the fan from there and started reading and listening to podcasts and I would read these books of people hunting, talking about whitetail hunting, and they would know everything, right, they would tell you what deer do and just really everything. And I said I want to do that. They would tell you what deer do and just really everything. And I said I want to do that. I want to be able to know that much about deer and, you know, be successful with deer hunting. So I would literally get a binder out and take notes and everything and then I just really it just took off from there.

Speaker 3: 1:06:52

I started hunting. My confidence was high from using that crossbow and I moved out to northeastern pa and really learned a lot there. I failed a lot a lot of times. I really kind of taught myself with the archery hunting side of things. My dad would always kind of teach me about the wind and everything, but nowadays there's so much information out there I was, I was never really taught all that information. So I learned from my failures and you know podcasts and reading and everything and yeah, and now I'm here and uh, but yeah, I grew it. I mean hunting family my whole life. They they're always hot, they were always hunting. So it's uh, in the blood, do it yeah, yeah, yeah, it's um it's pretty cool it is.

Speaker 2: 1:07:39

It's pretty cool, um, I, whatever. However people get into the outdoors, it's always amazing. You know, um, I think if you didn't get to grow up in it, you're always like, oh man, like I wish I got to grow up in this and I, 100 agree, like I, I, I wish, like I I grew up in it, but I also didn't at the same time, but, but, I'm so happy, like that, I found bow hunting and you know, that's that's the what I chose to do and it's obsessed about it and I I took notes too, like I would have, like I would have binders, like I found binders when I was younger, of just like all this hunting information and this was before youtube and everything like that. And you know, just the dvds I would watch or, um, you know, just going out scouting or moose watching when I was up, when I would be up in maine, and just stuff like that and just like all these cool things and it's I did so much better at that than school. So, like I wish, like man, I would get a.

Speaker 2: 1:08:37

I'd get an a a plus if, if this was like school, school and this is what we got to do all the time. But, um, what your your first? What was your first? You know, your first hunt woods, when you killed your first year was that that was with the gun, correct?

Speaker 3: 1:08:53

yeah, so I killed my first year. I was 15. It was a little spike four point.

Speaker 3: 1:08:58

I shot it probably five times uh yeah, I got in there with a, with a rifle and uh, up in clarion count or I get, you guys aren't from pennsylvania, but in clarion, pennsylvania, yeah, I was sitting on a log and I I really fell asleep. That I was, it's really comfy. It's really comfy situation I was in and I heard something, man, something, walking up over this ridge and boom, there's a buck right in front of me and I I just let it off because I shot it and it fell but it was still moving and you know, I didn't know what really to do with, you know. So I shot it again and it was still moving. I shot it but uh, yeah, that was my first ever ever buck.

Speaker 3: 1:09:43

It was uh like just a little four point, but that obviously contributed to where I'm at, what I'm doing now with with whitetail hunting and uh, but yeah, so it's kind of my background, with how I got influenced with hunting and a lot of it's from my dad and my, my uncles. I remember sitting with my dad when he shot a buck out in clarion one year and I was really young and I remember we they carried walkie-talkies with them and uh, my dad got someone, said to him there's a buck coming down the line or whatever, and he like I just remember seeing him get so set up, you know so serious, because it was like you know, we're chilling in the woods, walking and talking and then there's there's a buck coming down and he just gets saddled and it was just very a serious situation.

Speaker 2: 1:10:33

I was like whoa yeah, yeah, those were the days, like, of the walkie talkies, like now it's like everything's on itself you get a text and everything like that but the walkie talkies are dope I thought I heard someone say walkie talkies are illegal now in pennsylvania.

Speaker 3: 1:10:49

To like talk about deer, really, really I say I don't. I don't mark my words, but I swear. I heard that on another other guys talking about that.

Speaker 2: 1:10:58

We've never read a walkie talkie app, um, and we only do it during um six day when we're, when we're driving deer or like bear hunting or something like that, during during the six-day gun season here in new jersey. But like it, it's so, it's so cool because it's like all right, you get to talk into the thing and you know as long now we have headphones and and and everything like that, so you don't have to worry about it being loud. But up in maine, um, my, my cousin and uncle, they still use uh walkie talkies because there's no cell service up there. Like you, you have no choice but to use it. And they have a thing like I think every hour they'll turn it on and they'll just like give an, give an update or whatever the case is, and like that's how they, that's how they communicate all the way up up north. So it's like I would, I would love to do that because that'd be so cool. Uh, just kind of throw it like og style.

Speaker 2: 1:11:48

No yeah no phone, just like you know the walkie-talkie and everything you know but um that's uh makes you feel more in in nature.

Speaker 3: 1:11:57

No cell service. Yeah, yeah, oh man definitely um, what?

Speaker 2: 1:12:03

when? When you got the uh, when you got the compound bow, when you started shooting with the compound bow and hunting with the compound bow yeah, what was that like, like you know I, uh, I missed.

Speaker 3: 1:12:17

So I the the guy who taught when I bought my bill. He was kind of teaching me things and I was just kind of saying, yeah, I was trying to learn, but I really had no idea what he was talking about. And so I, when I had it, I would just meet just myself and I was playing around with it. I didn't know what I was doing and I messed around with the cams, so my cams were so uneven at one point and I had no idea and I'll I'll never forget it I'm shooting this bow at a target and I'm like trying to sight it in. I didn't know how to sight a bow and really I knew you moved the sight, but that was about it and none of my arrows were flying consistently. But this thing's so hard, what. This is really difficult and I really I missed two doe I remember like within 12 hours what one in the morning, one in the evening.

Speaker 3: 1:13:01

So I took it to this archery shop like what happened? What did you do with your bow? Like the cams were so uneven and off and uh, and I just kind of learned on my own with that. But it was good shooting it. Um, yeah, I just learned myself when I got that bow, of the mechanics I still don't there's. I'm not a nerd with with bow setup or any of that nature, yeah, but now I at least have a general idea of what's right and what to look for. Yeah, I'd be googling. How do I know if my bow is messed up and stuff like that listen, I'm not the I'm not the best when it comes to that either.

Speaker 2: 1:13:41

Like it's, I can do the bare minimum I would. I think I would like to learn just because, like after this year, having the issues that I have with my bow, it's like I don't want to have to rely or go to a store and do it where it takes more time. I'd like to just get the problem done like right away. Yeah. And you know it's, or you know, just somehow be able to have two bows every season, I mean yeah that would be great too.

Speaker 2: 1:14:07

But you know, one has to be more realistic than one.

Speaker 3: 1:14:15

You know, in this year my bow, my one string, was starting to rip. The service was. The servicing was coming undone very briefly and I called, like every archery shop I could talk to, and they're like you should be good, just don't shoot it very much like, oh man, what do I do? Get new strings the week before opening day? And I just got new strings. They were brand new, but I just I overshot. I guess that's what.

Speaker 2: 1:14:37

I did. That was my problem this year too. Right before the season, I had the same issue.

Speaker 3: 1:14:44

It was a panic of what do I do here? So I let that ride and I just didn't shoot as much as I wanted to. And then, once I missed all those deer, I'm like, oh gosh, now it's mid-october, do I start shooting and maybe my bow tear it rips. What do I do here?

Speaker 2: 1:15:03

yeah, man I was in the same boat as you and it's crazy how it kind of literally happened at the same time where I missed that deer too. And then I'm really second guessing things and that's like, oh my God. And then, you know, I went to get my bow checked and the guy was like, oh well, this you know. You know I'm not going to say names or any what the story was, but he was like, oh well, yeah, we found the problem. He ended up making, making it worse or whatever the case is. Yeah, making it worse, or whatever the case is, yeah. So then I, I went out and I went to the range and I'm like, all right, I'm trying to say, and like I'm like what the hell is going on? Like I, what is going on? Like I can't get my bow to shoot correctly. So then I took it to the original store that I usually get my bow worked on and they're like, yeah, whoever, whoever did this absolutely just didn't do it correctly and they fixed everything that they did.

Speaker 1: 1:15:53

But I said listen.

Speaker 2: 1:15:55

Please tell me, can I really shoot this bell? And they said the same thing. No, you should, you'll be good, you should make it through the whole, but just don't shoot too much. And I'm like I shoot a lot, I like to shoot, I like to shoot throughout the season, I shoot all year. But it's like now you're, I Like, I like to shoot, I like to shoot throughout the season, I shoot all, all year.

Speaker 2: 1:16:14

But it's like Now you're telling me I can't shoot. Now I got a hot, now I got a worry in the back of my Mind. Are my bow Strings gonna snap? Like You're freaking out and you don't know what to Do because everywhere it's a weight. It's like, oh yeah, yeah, we can't do this right Now, like or or the here, or this is the waiting time, or having, even if I had to wait, like a week or two, like yeah, but then you have to, you know, make sure everything's good. So you do have to recite your bow and a little bit, you just have to make those small adjustments.

Speaker 2: 1:16:42

But it's like that's just more time taking away from actually hunting and more money. And it's like am I going to risk it? And we both risk, you know and it paid off for you. For me, I think I would have done well because the little shooting I did I was on the money, but I you feel uncomfortable if you're not shooting. If you're someone who's used to shooting throughout the year, you you lose it and you lose. It feels like you lose the art because you're so confident when you can sling arrows at 40, 50, 60 yards with no problem, you know a 20, 30 yard shot, it's going to be no issue. And if you're shooting, I think it's very important to shoot during the season because you get really out of practice and you know that's the one thing, yet again, that we said in the beginning like you don't want to lose your confidence as a, as an archer yeah and you're yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:17:32

so when I did shoot in the off season, I realized my bow, I did something with it and it was. It was way off. I really did not to not tune my bow or I'd made the mistake to not shoot my bow enough with broadheads. From the, I switched broadheads yeah, I had they're the same brand, but I the name, like the official name of them, I don't know whatever and it made a huge difference and I shot once a couple times, said all right, we're good, and it came back to bite me. But I made a lot of. I should have been more mindful of my arrows and my broadheads throughout the season. That's something now. That's I don't know what do you guys practice with? Usually Field tips, broadheads, both.

Speaker 2: 1:18:20

Yeah, I practice with both In the off, like right now. I would be using field points Once. I would say once we really get closer to probably like August, I'll probably start now using my mechanicals and fixed. This year I'll be running fixed and mechanical bomb. I use I shoot the sever so I can honestly shoot those all throughout the year. I can put a practice. I put the pin in and it turns it into a practice arrow and I use that specific one for two years and it finally broke because what it would do is I kept hitting like this. It would go through the target and hit like a rock or a metal thing and because all that pressure wasn't pushing out, it was just slowly but surely wearing down and bending the blades, where then it finally just completely just bent and now, like if I shoot it it's all wobbly and everything like that, but that's no fault of the, the broadhead, that's just, you know, the constant wear and tear and the pin being in it um and all that pressure, yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:19:30

So you guys, what do you? What about you?

Speaker 1: 1:19:31

do you shoot mechanicals as well yeah, so I actually I'm switching back to mechanicals this year. I was telling uh, mike, I'm actually going to shoot the severs too, because I was always I've always had problems with mechanicals in the past, so I always got fixed for years now. So but the only problem with that is when I'd practice, it would only be field points till like a month before then I was outside non-stop shooting like a month before. Boom, boom, boom, boom, constantly shooting it, and I would tear up the targets. My, my arrows would end up going through, I would end up ripping veins off, like I was telling them. I was like this is a nightmare, you know what are you running right like what are?

Speaker 2: 1:20:16

so what did you, were they, what were they originally, if you remember? And then what are they? Would they switch them to?

Speaker 3: 1:20:22

so I always shot g5 montex fixed, okay, okay. And then I went to get broadheads for the season and I bought the regular montex I think I forget what they are g3 regular yeah, so they have a different one.

Speaker 3: 1:20:41

Yeah, yeah, that's right I switched to that one. I shot it a couple times like, oh, it's a montech, they look pretty identical. Whatever, it's not gonna make a difference. Boy, oh, boy I. It made a difference for my setup. It may not make a difference for every setup, because every setup could be different. I'm not an arrow bow nerd, I can't tell you all about that stuff, but that brought me a lot of trouble. And then I also switched arrows. I went from gold tips to black eagles and all year shooting, shooting um field tips. Man, I nailing it, shot a montech, looked good, said all right, getting ready for season, and that was my biggest mistake. I made um. And then after the second buck I missed, I said, or after the first buck I missed, I said all right, we're going back to the usual um, we're going, we're on. Whatever I'm doing this year is something's wrong with yeah. So I started. I blame, you know. Obviously first at first I'm blaming the, the setup, like it wasn't my decision, yeah, yeah yeah and uh.

Speaker 3: 1:21:58

So yeah, I got that back in order. Completely recited everything in 20, 30, 40, got everything down and ready to rock and roll. Buck comes up and what happens? I missed and I was. I just my mind got to me on that one. I usually never look at antlers or pay attention to the antlers, but I watched this buck for a while and you know, when you're watching a buck and using the binos, you start looking at the antlers and counting him and then he rolled in and that's, that's what happens when I look at the antlers.

Speaker 2: 1:22:38

Yeah, yeah no, and I've heard a couple other people saying they don't, they don't look at the antlers and they, they look at the body. Obviously, if you're in a point restriction state that you they'll take a glance or you'll take a glance and make sure it's legal, but then it's like you really have to focus on on the body and not at the antlers. But, um, you know, I'm gonna be moving to also a fixed option too and my biggest worry is I'm usually someone who not switches and I'm gonna be moving to iron will and I think I'm gonna be shooting a brand new arrow as well and gosh forbid, if I miss or I have a bad like it, it just it just ruins it. It could be not the arrow, it could be not the broadhead, it and it's probably gonna be if gosh forbid, it's 100.

Speaker 2: 1:23:25

The hunter that causes everyone to just not like whatever they're shooting. If one, it takes one bad experience and it's like, oh nope, I'm going back, I'm going back to you, it's, but that's, that's bow hunting like. I feel like we're very superstitious, but every small detail matters and you don't get the same effect like you are if you're gun hunting. You know it's, it's not the same. You know, yeah it it matters so much more and yeah, we can't really be off and man, like it's tough, it really is.

Speaker 3: 1:23:58

And people naturally hate change too. So as soon as something changes, and something doesn't happen, right? You're saying, oh, it's because of this, you know it's just the first thing you want to do is blame that. Yeah, want to do is blame that. Yeah, end of the day it's. We should be the one sighting the bows in and making sure everything's tuned up and and whatnot. But we all got lives and sometimes you overlook it, you skip it and it gets tough, you know it's it's.

Speaker 2: 1:24:25

It's the same reason where I, you know I part of it I didn't want to get new, you know, strings in the middle of the season because I understand that it's gonna take more work, more time of of what we have to do. Uh, we have to go to work. We, you know we have family stuff to do. You know, do I really want to sit here and go through the frustrations of, you know, making sure everything's correct all over again, or do I just you know you just get out there and you just hunt Like it's it's the decisions that you know we don't like the process during the season. You know exactly the, the pros, the changing of the process is for this time. Right now you feel so much comfortable because we know we have like six months until the season, five months until we have so much time so you can play around with things.

Speaker 3: 1:25:17

You know, this is the perfect time. Let me ask you this real quick so with your mechanicals, do you guys ever run the issues with I? I've just heard a lot about mechanicals where I kind of steer away from them of the more moving parts. So like do you hit a branch and the mechanical opens up, or you pull back and the mechanical opens up or some. Any of that ever happen?

Speaker 2: 1:25:38

I'm gonna specifically say it depends on what mechanical you're running.

Speaker 3: 1:25:45

Okay, yeah, um let me see if I can.

Speaker 2: 1:25:47

So severs must be a pretty, pretty good brand, because I hear a bunch of people talk about yeah, so I'm running severs, that everyone knows that I'm running severs, like I've been running them for the past or three or four, four years probably now, I just switched to them this year. Oh, let me, let me see if I can zoom this camera in. Oh, okay, all right. So I don't know how well people can see that if you can see that, well, pretty good this right here.

Speaker 2: 1:26:19

What I, what I like so much, is this it's a pretty good o-ring, right, so it does take a little bit of force to break and, obviously, and how they have theirs is they? They do have the blade and then it indents a little bit so the o-ring actually sits perfectly inside so you don't have to worry about it just breaking really easily, right. So I'm I am putting a little bit of pressure, um, now, yes, if you hit a, a branch or something like that, it's gonna throw. It's gonna throw your shot off, regardless if you're using a fix or or anything like that.

Speaker 2: 1:26:55

Why I use sever is that they actually hold up very well because of this fail right here. This is the one mechanical that I do know that is going to hold up against bone. I, this mechanical right here a perfect example was in the opposite shoulder of the buck that I shot right there. So, as you can see, it is in and it's in perfect shape. I could honestly, I could use this again. Also, what I like about sever is is, if I hit bone, say, right here, all the blades do are pivot right, right, so it doesn't change the flight once it's inside, so it's going to keep going um. And this, you know, it locks in, and then it, and then it just pivots right you can undo that um with with sever also as well, I can replace these blades.

Speaker 2: 1:27:50

So if I do break a blade or something like that, I can replace the individual blades if I want to as well. I'm, though, somebody who, once I usually shoot a deer, I usually probably retire the aerial arrow, especially if it's a buck. I'm not a big, but I do. I trust ever, fully and completely, like I am no BS people out there who's listening, who hasn't, like I could easily use. There's not a dent in this thing. There's. The ferrule is also still perfectly sharp and it's there's not a dent in it. You wouldn't even be able to tell, like, honestly, if I cleaned it up a little bit, you wouldn't tell that this thing was was in a deer, in the opposite shoulder of the deer. Now, everyone has different experiences, so maybe it's just you know, the specs on my bow is is perfect for this, because I've had somebody who said that they didn't really get much penetration with the sever. We have American Mike, who he kills a lot, lot of deer, a lot of deer with sever. Right up until this year, he's never had a pass through um, and this is an episode that will be releasing soon that we did. And all the guy did was what do you say? He aligned um, he did some work on the arrow. So basically he aligned the arrow, he spined it correctly and then he gave a four inch um helix or whatever the hell it is on the on the veins and he had a pass through on his buck, pass through on every doe, pass through on a bear, and has had no issues of not having a pass through um. So I think I think it just everything just has to be correct, kind of you know. I haven't had a issue, but I'm moving to also Iron Will as as well, so I got them something out there in the try.

Speaker 2: 1:29:40

Yeah, I'm gonna. I'm shooting both for this season. I do want to give a fix. I I've always wanted to shoot fixed blade. I've just had bad experiences with fixed blade, but now, yet again that I know more about shooting. Uh, at the time I think I just didn't know you had to. In the very beginning, my first year, I shot g5s right and I didn't know that you had to. You know, do all this and you know, just because it's sighted in with field points does not mean it's sighted in with, you know, the g5. So that kind of turned me off. I've shot rages and I will tell you I hate rage.

Speaker 2: 1:30:16

I'm very much against rage I talk about all the time in this podcast, but that's more because I had a bad experience. I had that issue where they opened up and I wasn't even doing anything and I'm like, well, I'm not gonna use this that that's why I'm stuck with fixed.

Speaker 3: 1:30:33

I just never really use the mechanical words. I feel good about it, it's just experience. That's all it is, and that's what it's about.

Speaker 1: 1:30:45

Yeah, no, and I'll tell you this. I've used Rages in the past and I've shouldered a deer and watched the arrow literally barely going, the bends blade, the blades bent and the deer take off. But I also. Then I shot one of my big seven pointers where I hit him high and for the first I think it was like 60, 70 yards, 70 yards no blood, and then there was blood everywhere. We found them like 30 yards away, but it just, it just didn't sit well with me every time I shot it. It was just something, something different and I was like I can't, I can't hunt like that, you know so inconsistency and you know, people always like, oh well, you know what this is what I shot like.

Speaker 2: 1:31:34

Because people like, oh well, look this, this is what I shot with the rage. I'm like, yeah, I, I know they're. They are. When people think of mechanicals, they are the mechanical that people think of, right, yeah, but I had a bad experience with them, so I'm not going to, you know, my, the listeners are people who who listen to us or ask me questions. I'm not going to tell them, oh, go shoot a rage. I'm going to tell them my personal experience with rage. I don't like them. I had a bad experience. You know I give sever such a. You know, I haven't had a bad experience. These are all my, my good experiences.

Speaker 3: 1:32:08

You know I've ever a real good review yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:32:12

Yeah, yeah, I've had a few people, but like I've been shooting them for three to four years, I've, I've shot every, every deer that I've shot in the last three, three or four years have all been severed and I've only not retrieved one, and that was yet again this year, and then I was more of me. That wasn't. That had nothing to do with the broadhead.

Speaker 3: 1:32:33

So you know I'm excited for iron will, though I'm excited end of the day, got a nice sharp tip on there. Good arrow and a bow that shoots, you can still kill a deer. You know exactly I have. I have seen videos of arrows hitting like bouncing off a deer, though I don't know how that stuff happens. That would make me sick.

Speaker 2: 1:32:56

I saw one, I think, earlier in the season. Someone shot a deer. I don't know what the hell happened, but it bounced like right off the shoulder and it did absolutely nothing and I was like I think I'd throw my bow. I would be fuming If that happened.

Speaker 3: 1:33:15

Can you imagine that Biggest buck of your lifetime walks up on you and you shoot it and it bounces off?

Speaker 2: 1:33:20

It's the Hulk. Did you see the video where someone Shoots and it actually, I think it hits a stick and it actually ricochets Perfectly into the jugular Of the deer and the deer is just bleeding all and it like it's like come on, like if. If I want something to go wrong, I want that to go wrong for me, where it still kills the deer, like it was the perfect mistake, that that you could have oh man, dude, I don't, I don't know.

Speaker 3: 1:33:47

I shot. I had a bad shot on a doe this year and I never want to. Honestly, I would rather miss it than have a bat like that. It was, yes, it's not. It was the first time it ever happened to me and I was. It still makes me upset thinking about it. I'd rather shoot, I'd rather miss it, for sure, I'd rather 100 rather miss I called uh, I used a dog tracker this year.

Speaker 2: 1:34:09

This was my first time ever. Yeah, I knew, knew from the shot, and then when I went to go see the footage, I was going to need a tracker for this one. My belief is, if you can find, your do everything that you can to find your deer.

Speaker 2: 1:34:24

That's why I'm so okay with the drones. That's why some people are like, oh no, but I was like, no, you're using every little ounce that you have to find you owe it to the animal to to do the best job you can. So that's why I'm so cool with with dogs, with with, uh, drones like I have nothing against that, right, yeah, um, and I I had a great experience. I, I really did. But you know, I didn't find the deer. It was heartbreaking. She showed up on the camera like a couple weeks later and you know it's you still don't want to see it.

Speaker 3: 1:34:54

You really, you really don't yeah, that's the one thing that I think drones are good for is finding. You know, I'm just on the making sure it's not going the ways it's you can find. If it's still living, then that's as much as you can do after after a dog, you know. Yeah 100%.

Speaker 2: 1:35:15

All right, we got a few more, few more for you. These are going to be, you know, quick ones, and then we'll let you go. This has been excellent so far. We really enjoy you being on the number one question on this podcast. What is your dream hunt? Where would it be? Two weeks money is not. Do you do not have to worry about money where? Where would it be, and what and what?

Speaker 3: 1:35:39

animal? Can it be like multiple locations, sort of like?

Speaker 3: 1:35:43

so yeah, do it, let us know. My dream hunt is getting a tent in the back of my truck and all whitetail I want to start out with I'm going to drive the central pa, I'm going to hunt out there, drive up to new york, hunt up there, drive back down through ohio hunting ohio and then hit maryland and and hunt again and then make my way back to pa all over the course of two weeks and a lot of coolers would be needed. That's awesome. That would be, uh, that would be my dream. I would do that from October 15th through the 31st or November 1st.

Speaker 2: 1:36:28

That's pretty. That's pretty cool, though I do like that. I like that answer. That was a really good one. Um, going good, I just. I think that's that is a dream, because a lot of people say midwest like if they do say deer, it's like oh, I want to go to iowa and stuff like that, but it's like we we got a lot of land here and so that's why I hear when people talk about pa and like new york and ohio like they love these states there's, yeah, there's a lot of pressure in some of the areas in pa.

Speaker 3: 1:36:59

But if you find that, if you go out central pa I hunted archery out there for a few years I never ran into a bow hunter in the woods ever. Now, here where I'm at now, I get people singing, walking down through the woods, waving at me in my tree stands. But uh, yeah. So I love northeast, I think pa would I just I love it. Did I say west virginia too? On that one I'd hit west virginia no no but then maryland.

Speaker 2: 1:37:33

I'll put. I'll put, uh, west Virginia down and then Virginia, cool, got it. Um, that's it. That's, that's a I I'm. I hope you do that soon because I I'm really interested in in hearing about that and seeing what you can do. What's your favorite hunting snack?

Speaker 3: 1:37:55

Oh, hunting snack, gosh, you gotta get the now. Beef jerky is obviously it, but you got to narrow it down to the the fat boy Slim, jim's boy.

Speaker 2: 1:38:09

Slim Jim's. That's a good one um non-typical or typical hmm, typical, I want to.

Speaker 3: 1:38:22

I like I'd like a nice big, typical 12 points to walk right out in front of me now if you could buy, I think I, I don't think there's anything Better than that.

Speaker 2: 1:38:36

Yes, non-typicals are great, but like when you got a deer Hanging on the wall, that nice, clean, typical, that's, I think, every hunter's dream. I don't see how it's not. Yeah, if you could Buy property in any state, what would it be?

Speaker 3: 1:38:59

oh, man, honestly, I would buy in north central pa, northeastern slash central, northeastern slash, central pa, out in there I'd buy a buy a farm with some woods and a lot of acreage out there. I mean, you can't go, I listen, I just I'm a pa guy, you can't, you can't go.

Speaker 2: 1:39:24

Listen, I I don't blame, like I honestly I would do the same here in jersey if I like, if I could buy like a really nice big piece of property in New Jersey. I just love the fact that we can hunt from September all the way to February, that we have coyotes, that we have bear, that we waterfowl hunt, like why, and we can grow big deer. Pa grows big deer, new York grows big deer, like Ohio grows huge deer. You know all these States have, you know all these that can grow big deer. You know all these states have, you know all these that can grow big deer. And if you have your own property and you can manage your own property, you're going to grow giant deer.

Speaker 2: 1:40:02

Oh yeah, right, if you could get sponsored by any company out there, what would it be? And this could be anything.

Speaker 3: 1:40:13

Oh man, I've never even thought about. Let's see who would I want to be sponsored by? Hunting related, outdoors related, does it?

Speaker 2: 1:40:21

you usually has to tie into the outdoors. But, like I've had, people do self, uh, self-serve. Like you know, verizon, we've had vehicles like ram or ford, um, you know, any way it can tie into the outdoor. So it doesn't exactly have to be an exact outdoor company, but if it could tie into the outdoors we're gonna count it you know what I would say right now I shoot it.

Speaker 3: 1:40:45

Oh man, I don't. I guess all right, this is. I would say right now I shoot a psc. So I'd say I'm not gonna say psc, I would want to be sponsored by, like Sitka or somehow, some gear company where I can get all the gear I want for Saves a lot of money.

Speaker 2: 1:41:06

Oh absolutely Saves a lot. Now, if you could hunt with I'm for you because you grew up in it. I'm gonna change the question now. If you could hunt with one family member and one like famous person, um, a lot, dead or alive, doesn't matter what year, doesn't matter how long ago, if they're famous, anything like that, um, who?

Speaker 3: 1:41:33

who would it be? Family member would be my dad and the famous person would probably be the what's his name from sequel and lee lee, okay, yeah yeah, probably him legend good dude the deer that that guy kills, holy hell yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:42:05

So I think, frank, you got any more no, not that I can think of no, listen, it was an absolute pleasure having you on.

Speaker 2: 1:42:17

It is. It is fun to to finally sit down and talk to you and everything like that. Um, definitely got to get you back on. Maybe we should get you and uh brad on at the same time and have some fun. I imagine the stories that you two have together Get some good scout stories. So it's been a hell of a time. Definitely got to get you on for one of our roundtable segments too, as well.

Speaker 2: 1:42:45

When we get a bunch of the guys on, I'm hoping to eventually, in the next year, meet you in person, anything like that, anything that you need, anything that you you need help with listen, feel free to hit us up. We'll always, you know, be here If you ever want to be like hey, listen, I got something I want to talk about on the podcast and you want to jump on. Just just let me know. I usually give guys the the free, free invite and green light to jump on it. Just let me know. I usually give guys the the free, free invite and green light. Um to to jump on. Um, it was absolute pleasure. Um, I hope everyone enjoyed this episode. The link in the description to to buck down. Instagram is going to be right down there, alex. Thank you so much. Any last words?

Speaker 3: 1:43:29

Yeah, just thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. This was a. This was definitely a good time. Yeah, definitely, frank.

Speaker 2: 1:43:33

Any, any any last words, yeah, just thanks for having me on I appreciate. This was a. This was definitely a good time.

Speaker 1: 1:43:37

Yeah, definitely frank any any any last words? No, I had a blast and it was nice meeting you and I can't wait to see what you do this coming season.

Speaker 3: 1:43:42

Oh yeah, we'll have to get the guys. Let's get a trip scheduled, let's get. Yeah, I'd love to hunt with you guys hunt new jersey as well, so definitely I would be 100 down for a trip. You guys hunt New Jersey as well.

Speaker 2: 1:43:53

Definitely, I would be 100% down for a trip. You guys come here, we go somewhere. Whatever needs to get done, I think getting all the guys together would be a lot of fun for sure.

Speaker 3: 1:44:03

Absolutely, I appreciate it guys. Of course it was a pleasure talking to you.

Speaker 2: 1:44:08

Thank you so much. I hope you guys enjoyed this episode and we'll see you guys next time.