Speaker 2: 0:21

welcome back to the garden state outdoorsdoorsman Podcast presented by Boondock Sunning. I'm your host, Mike Nitre.

Speaker 1: 0:26

I'm Frank Mastica.

Speaker 2: 0:35

Today it is round three or four of the roundtable segment. I am completely forgetting now what number we're at, but we're going to be giving another shot at it here. We got a couple of new faces on to the roundtable segment. Um guys, why don't you guys give yourselves a quick introduction? Whoever, doesn't matter who I'll go first.

Speaker 3: 0:56

So my name is ethan razis. Um, you can find me on instagram and youtube. Archery athlete. It's a pleasure to be. I've been on a couple podcasts in the past with Mike. Work life definitely has gotten in the way in the last two years. That's why I haven't been on, but got some things changing now and I'm happy to be back.

Speaker 4: 1:17

My name is Brett Boven from Whitetail Advantage, and I'm here from the state of Michigan. I've been hunting for now about 18 years now, so I used to be a former cop for seven years and gave that up recently. So that's a little about me.

Speaker 5: 1:32

I'll go next. I'm Brandon Barlow and I'm here for Whitetail 101. I'm in the Carolinas, I'm originally from the adirondacks northern boy, but I'm down here in the south and uh, yeah, thanks for having me thanks.

Speaker 2: 1:52

No, definitely, and we may have a few other guests popping on and everything like that. So if anyone does pop on, well you know, obviously we'll give them the intro, but right now this is the crew that we're rolling with. So you know one, ethan, like you said, it's nice to have you back. You know, I know work and everything like that got crazy, um, but it's good to have you back. Um, frank, you know, as, as usual, I see you all the time. Now, right, welcome back for your second time. But I am this episode will actually be dropping before your first episode, because we're actually going to drop this this weekend. Um, and then brandon, of course, reaper, yeah, you've. You've been on a bunch of times and it's always a a hell of a time when you come on.

Speaker 2: 2:38

But we are gonna get through some hunting topics and just some casual discussion. Maybe you'll get a little out of hand, who knows, maybe some feelings were hurt, we'll get hurt, who knows? But you know, um, I really just want to start with, you know, a simple one is what inspired you guys to get into the outdoors? Like, what was your big inspiration? Anyone can take it. You don't have to be polite with each other If you talk to each other you say, oh, I'm talking.

Speaker 2: 3:13

You don't have to All right Reaper.

Speaker 5: 3:16

Yeah, yeah, I'll go first. For me it was really two things. It was living in a place in the Adirondacks where, um, on a dairy farm I mean, we had two miles of road so our next neighbors were not even really walking distance. So if we weren't out frogging and squirrel hunting and stuff, there really wasn't anything to do as kids. And then as we got into high school, it was pretty much my friends that were getting into doing drugs and stuff and then the rest of us were like killing bucks and catching fish. So I use hunting and fishing as a way to just kind of stay out of trouble. You know for pretty much.

Speaker 2: 4:02

Smart, smart. I mean, yeah, hell of a way, who's next?

Speaker 5: 4:05

Not that I didn't get in trouble, but but it was. He's still good.

Speaker 2: 4:12

A lot of my friends got killed.

Speaker 3: 4:14

I was out hunting, so yeah, I'll take next For me. I grew up in a family, not a huge hunting family. I was exposed to it when I was younger. I remember when I was seven or eight years old. I grew up in a family, not a huge hunting family. I was exposed to it, you know, when I was younger. I remember when I was seven or eight years old I got one of those toy bows from the sportsman's store. My dad got me but I hunted extremely lackadaisically for five, six years, really never put much time into it.

Speaker 3: 4:41

And then one day I think I was 16, 16 I had a 80 pound doe just run in broadside like 12 yards, smoked her and uh, that just completely lit a fire because I'd never that was the first year I'd ever killed and uh, from there I just became completely obsessive over it. For those of you who, uh, don't know, I know it's been a while since I've been on. I know Mike knows. For years, probably six plus years I was completely into archery, nothing else, and I was completely obsessive about super tuning my bows and just becoming as good as I could with the gear and the technical side of things. Recently I've delved into firearms a bit more because of my career, but that was how everything started for me. And then that one 80-pound doe has now spread and sent me traveling across the country on a whole bunch of Western hunts and doing that whole thing every year.

Speaker 4: 5:42

So it's definitely flourished. Recently I got into hunting because of my dad. Hunting grew up, basically was in my blood. My mom she used to go out with my dad, uh, tracking deer and it was just like I said. It's been in my family for generations and we only hunt with a bow. It's basically become a family law where you only hunt with a bow in this family. If you shoot with a gun you're basically going to be disowned.

Speaker 4: 6:03

But no, I think at a young age I remember watching, I see photos of me and with my dad and his deer and his best friends and their deer and and to stand at the sliding glass door waiting for them to come inside asking did you see anything? And hearing the stories that they would share. It was amazing. And when I finally was able to get my first deer, I was hooked and I think it was me missing my very first deer. That officially got me really hooked into hunting with a bow. That was like all right, I got, I want to be the best at this, I want to be the best person I can be and hunting and stuff like that. So that's being out in the woods. It's a peaceful moment for myself and to do it with my friends and family. It's a whole new world for me and I love doing it yeah, yeah, no, no, that's awesome.

Speaker 1: 6:52

So like for me almost somewhat of the same story. Um, I started probably going out with my dad, my grandpa, my uncles, when I was like five years old, hunted multiple states. That's all we did every weekend. We were hunting the whole weekend. Um, we actually started off small game hunting. They were always hunting pheasants, rabbit, grouse, everything. Um, then once they got into deer hunting that's when I kind of really get hooked they ended up buying 64 acres upstate New York, up in Sullivan County, and that's where I spent basically my whole childhood. Anytime I get up there, I was up there helping them drag deer or it didn't matter. I used to sit almost same thing as Bretttt here. I used to sit literally at the window and my grandfather there was a hedgerow, his tree stand was right there and I would sit there with binoculars and just watch them. First thing in the morning I get up and just watch them, waiting for everybody to get back, hear their stories and said I was hooked and I I started hunting and it was a wrap.

Speaker 2: 8:06

Once I could start shooting my own, I was like all right, guys, you know, I'm on my own yeah, yep, um, I guess, you know, for me it was really just, I didn't have that classic itch growing up just because of hockey, but it was always something that everyone on my mom's side of the family for the most part they did, and something that I always like really dreamt about. Like this is what I want to do, you know. But at the time, hockey was just there and the minute I think I got injured and I needed something else to do, from the first second I decided to pick up a bow and start learning about bow hunting. I was hooked immediately. You know, when I went outside and took my first shot, that right there, just just did it for me, you know, when, ever since then, then, I've just been obsessed with, with hunting.

Speaker 2: 9:07

Um, you know, and I cannot wait to, to have my own kids, and you know, that's hopefully, hopefully, what, uh, what they want to do as well.

Speaker 2: 9:16

I mean, I want them to play hockey too, but I would love, you know, love them to to have the same, you know, if not even the same, just respect, I think, for the outdoors that I have. They don't have to hunt, but just have to respect the outdoors, and I think that's the key thing for me. So our next one and this one is a good one, and I kind of want Ethan to just start this off, because when you went on your first elk hunt you talked a lot about this um, of how do you prepare for a hunting trip, both physically and mentally, um, you know. So I definitely want you to take that first, because I think people what we talked about in that episode was you do a lot physically but you may not do the mental preparation, especially like a, a big game hunt, like out of state, like a Colorado or like Alaska or Africa or something like that. So you know, I definitely want you to take that, since you have some experience in that first.

Speaker 3: 10:21

Yeah, absolutely. So I can tell you how I went about it my first year and then, uh, how I went about it years since. So my first time going out west, I believe it was, uh, 2020, the year of covid, and um, totally out of blue, knew I'd always love to go out but never really put the time into planning it. And I have a real good buddy of mine lives down in North Carolina. He just gave me a call one day and goes hey, you know, um, plans changed. I'm going out for my, uh, for an elk hunt this year. You want to come with us? I said, sure, I'd always been relatively fit, so I didn't really think much about that and I didn't know what I was getting into on the mental side of things. So there really wasn't much preparing at all besides getting the gear and stuff like that. And uh, yeah, I went out there and I left the family behind pretty much no contacts or it was scheduled for a nine-day trip and I bounced out. I booked a brand new flight. I was back by day four or day five, one or the other.

Speaker 3: 11:21

I, um, totally was not prepared physically. I was decent, could have been, could have changed up some things there to be better. Um, because those mountains definitely will kick your ass. But, um, I was totally unprepared mentally to be away from the family and be away from everything that I know so well. You know, I grew up in central Jersey, spent my whole life here, never spent more than one or two days away from the family, from my girlfriend, so that totally took me by surprise and that pulled me out and then that just lit a fire.

Speaker 3: 11:52

Um, you know understanding more. So what to expect, going forward, from the mental side of things as well as the physical side, and just understanding that you know you're going to be, uh, you're going to have those days where you're going to be lonely, you're going to have those days where you want to just pack it up and go home, and you have to understand that at the end of the day, you're only going to have X amount of days, whenever your return flight home is, whenever you've got to be back at work. That's when you're done. You're done for the next year, or however long.

Speaker 3: 12:19

You never know, that might be your last time going out west or wherever you're going for God knows how long. So from the mental side of things, just knowing that it's going to suck, there are going to be a lot of days you don't want to get out of bed but making the most of every second that you have out there, because the second you get on that plane you're going to know if you gave it your all or not, and if you book out early or if you take those mornings and you sleep in and all that. You're going to get on that plane to come home and you're going to know you could have given a little bit more, and you're not going to have the ability to prove yourself wrong or showcase what you really can do until, whenever it is, you go out again next year, years later. Uh, from the physical side of things, just really, really focusing on cardiovascular system um, that was the big thing.

Speaker 3: 13:05

A lot more running, a lot more rucking, a lot more time just working with an incredibly increased heart rate, because, especially when you're going out west, that first trip I went on, you know, was, uh, south, southwest colorado, on a limited entry, elk tag and those mountains, especially with all that weight in your bag. You know, when you're moving camp every other day, that'll, that'll, that'll beat you down. And if you don't have, if you're not training your heart often to just be working at such an increased rate constantly, it'll, it'll make you leave. So quick question do you remember?

Speaker 2: 13:40

what your average heart rate heart rate was when you were climbing the mountains.

Speaker 3: 13:45

I couldn't tell you I wasn't tracking it, but I know it was way higher than I was used to training it. I'll tell you that right now I was completely taken. I was, you know, not ready for it. Sorry, I know I went a little bit long-winded there. No, no.

Speaker 2: 14:08

Don't feel, please take as much time as you need. Um, when you guys talk about your, your topics and your conversations and everything like that, like don't, don't worry about that at all, we'll. I want you guys to talk. I want to do less talking. You guys more talking I would say.

Speaker 3: 14:24

I would say that's the meat and potatoes of it, um, just understanding that when you're going out there you know a lot of it's going to suck, and to kind of figure out a way yourself personally to get over it, um, and understand that you only have x amount of time out there and to make the most of it and just get that heart rate jacked up as often as you can before you go.

Speaker 2: 14:43

Gotcha, who's next? Who wants to take their next shot at their topic, at this topic?

Speaker 4: 14:51

I'll take it Go ahead Like the same question. Yeah, yeah, same question my bad.

Speaker 4: 15:02

I've never been outside of Michigan to go hunting, but I think we're. I think you have to prepare yourself when it comes to mental game of it all is you have to make sure that you know what you're getting yourself into and prepare everything that you can going out there, um, if we're talking about elk hunting out West, um, like Ethan said, I think you have to cause I I'm taking it from a sports background If you leave everything on the field and you can come home at the end of the day knowing you gave everything you got, whether it was a win or lose, um, you're happy with what you did. I think you need to take that out into the hunting world as well. Um, that way you know, that way you know that you know I did everything I could and if I wasn't successful, I tried everything I can. And not to let those moments of failure get you down.

Speaker 2: 15:54

Really I think also for especially for you, since you're you know, like you said you're, you're in michigan, everything like that battling the the weather. I think you know, like you said, you're in Michigan and everything like that Battling the weather. I think you know. That's something that I will say mentally when you're in your own home turf, it's what are your weather conditions and you know your preparation especially, everyone knows late season. Your late season mental prep is way different than early season's prep. Mental prep is way different than than early seasons prep.

Speaker 2: 16:28

So I think that also right. There is just a whole nother aspect of it as well as your is your mental toughness kind of to, to get you to wake up that early, knowing you're going to freeze your ass off in you know single digit weather with the winds howling and everything like that.

Speaker 4: 16:42

It definitely plays a part where it's like you know what we had a saying in the police academy, or I'm saying just in law enforcement general, but uh, it's embrace a suck, it's gonna suck sometimes, on those days where you just don't want to go out and hunt, in those cold, rainy, windy days, um, you might not see anything, but you know what you gave, everything you got. You can't just sit on, you can't shoot a deer on your couch. So I mean, there's some times where you just the weather's not gonna be great for you to go hunt, I get that, but you can't also just sit at home and do nothing. So you gotta prepare for those times and then, like I said, in places, suck really yeah, how about you?

Speaker 2: 17:22

uh, brandon, how about?

Speaker 5: 17:26

you, brandon? How about you? So I would say, for me, physical preparedness has changed over the years. You know, back in the day, I've never had a lot of people help me with deer. It's always been. I guess I should preface with that Whitetail hunting has been a solo endeavor for me pretty much my whole whole life. It's, it's therapy to me. It's year round. I'm always out in the woods and so when I shoot a deer I don't really have a lot. I've never really had a support system, so I need to be able to get the deer out of the woods.

Speaker 5: 18:08

With that being said, you know, when I was 25, physical preparedness was pretty easy. I mean, two weeks before bow season I would stop drinking and start running right, like that was not a big deal. Now I'm 45, so that doesn't fly anymore. So if I want to drag a buck a thousand yards now, I have to start in june or july with my cardio and I have to make sure, while I'm not maybe not keeping it up year round like I should, um, what it means for me now is more of a commitment. It's um, really taking it serious when I hear people say I have to get in shape in july and august. Um, it's, it seems, through my age, I mean, I'm I'm working on it usually a little before now um, making sure, while I am a big boy, I'm making sure I can I can hit nine mile marks, which I need to get a deer out of the woods. And with that being said, mentally I would think I would say that I think I'm always mentally prepared. I'm generally monster hunting in some form or fashion, whether it's giant catfish or big deer or whatever it may be. So I'm always mentally prepared for that. Physically it's getting harder and harder.

Speaker 5: 19:29

But one thing I'll add there is organizationally. You know you guys are talking about out-of-state hunts. I don't have any experience with that. I take a lot of pride in getting it done in my home state, and I live in a tough state. But I don't have a lot of pride in getting it done in my home state. And and I live in a tough state, but, um, I don't have a lot of experience with that. But what I will say is um, my hunting places are like two hours from where I live. Um, they're mostly southern from here. So, um, preparedness and organization is huge for me. I have to know that. Like you know, my ropes are clean, my ropes are organized, I have saddles, I have platforms, I have my gear, just like everybody else, making sure that my pouches are kept organized. When I was in the field doing trade work a lot, I always made sure my cords and stuff were rolled up, and that's the mentality I take to hunting If your stuff isn't organized, you're going to fail, and that's all I would say, about that yeah.

Speaker 1: 20:36

And Mr Frank, yeah, so for me it was. So I mainly, you know, only hunt Jersey, new York and PA. But when I went up to Maine for the very first time, I was like, two miles from the Canada border, felt like I was, you know, mentally prepared as well, as I wasn't sure about physically because when I went I was young, but I was like like I got this. Um, when I went up, I was like overwhelmed by how big the woods are and I was, I guess I was so used to hunting the way I usually hunt, so had my tree stands, had everything kind of know what's going on.

Speaker 1: 21:21

Um, when you, when I went up there, I quickly realized that, like a lot of people actually where I was anyway, they, uh, they were still hunting and that's how they killed a lot of their deer. So I had to kind of adapt. And that's when I was like, oh man, like we went for a week, I was like I don't know if I could get up and do this every day, like walking all this far uphills, not know where I'm going, you know, trying to basically scout and hunt at the same time. It was, it was a lot of adjustment. Um, I wasn't successful, but I I still had a blast and I would definitely do it again because I you know I learned a lot on how to do it, how people do it there.

Speaker 5: 22:08

So, yeah, it's just well, you definitely plan on doing it again because yeah, I definitely just made a plan in the group literally I started out tracking and it's in tracking, it like still hunting or tracking, and there's a lot of different names for it and I think they're a little different. But tracking is how we hunted in the Adirondacks a lot and we had snow, which we don't get here in the south, and that's tough. That is a tough living. I mean, when I was younger, tracking in the mountains was easy, right, like I said, you stop drinking a month before season, hit the track and you're good. But now Tracking in the big woods, mountains, is it's very similar to like Elk hunting, I think like what you're Talking about Frank is that's like what he was talking About with the elk hunting, especially if you get out by the bold coast, like that terrain is. Yeah, I wasn't prepared.

Speaker 3: 23:12

When you were telling that story about your first time in maine. That reminded me of my first time in colorado, that little story that I just said I remember so vividly. Uh, we got this rental car. We tore that car to hell I mean, the fact that it made it back to the airport was wild, but we ended up driving in. So our access point was actually near a ski resort and there was a back like a damn, a logging road that we took to just go miles, miles back into where we were going to be hunting.

Speaker 3: 23:43

And I remember driving in there looking at the mountains and coming from central Jersey road that we took to just go miles, miles back into where we were going to be hunting. And I remember driving in there looking at the mountains and coming from central jersey there there's no, not even any hills out here. And I remember my first thought when I was still driving I wasn't even out of the car yet was how the hell am I going to get up there, like how I'm going to be out here for 10 days? How the hell am I going to do this for 10 days? I can't imagine doing this for a day.

Speaker 2: 24:06

So I definitely understand that, uh, that overwhelming factor, because it can hit you bad yeah, yeah, I, I think also, like you know you talk about doing a hunt like that. I mean, frank, it's the grind is going to be real if we get up to maine this year. You know, ethan, I don't know if you're you're're going to Colorado this year, but I know you'll definitely, you know, be doing some type of big game hunting like that. And you know, you know the rest of you guys, I mean, whether you're anyone out there, whether you're your home or or you're away, it's your prep is kind of it's going to vary. You, you want to be in shape.

Speaker 2: 24:46

I, I think you know, right now, our one of our team guys. He's doing the 90, 90 days out challenge, uh, where you're supposed to work out every day and, you know, post your progress and everything like that, which I think is absolutely brilliant. I mean, because we're none of us are getting any younger. Um, you know, and I am just sick and tired, even being only 30. You know, I remember what two years ago so 28, dragging that buck out, I was dead and I was like never again, never again will my cardio be that bad going into the season, where now my preparation after my birthday on August 5th there goes all the alcohol.

Speaker 2: 25:27

You know there's 45.

Speaker 1: 25:28

preparation after my birthday on august 5th. There goes all the alcohol you know they're 45.

Speaker 2: 25:31

I'm not, I'm not looking, it's gonna be rough.

Speaker 2: 25:32

I'm already stressing now about it, you know, but it's. It's a thing that I think, physically and mentally hunting is that one thing that you kind of have to have both and it gives you both because it is a, it can be a physical sport. Obviously you can make it very easy where you don't have to do too much. Or you could be a nut like cameron haynes and you know, be running however much he does and doing all the things he does and pulling back like an 85 pound bow, you know, and or you can do that, but you have to be in some type of physical shape. And then the mental toughness of just hunting alone.

Speaker 2: 26:12

You know we're not even talking about just a trip, but you know we, we've talked about a bunch of times, I think Brett, I think we talked about it. You know, when you, when you miss a deer or wounded deer or something like that, like the mental toughness that you got to show to overcome you know that aspect of it, bow hunting is all mental. If you're one step off with bow hunting, one inch off, I mean, that makes a huge difference between a successful hunt and a a hunt empty-handed 50 yards might as well be five miles.

Speaker 5: 26:46

You know, one thing I would say about Maine is just keep your eye on the goal and on the prize, because it's very overwhelming, except once you find a three inch wide track. Then all of a sudden you've got some adrenaline in your veins and you're ready to climb two more ridges.

Speaker 2: 27:03

So just just hammer on the nail and find a big track, because that's everything I will say my, you know my cousin, he was just here, um, you know he's, he's killed a, a big buck there. You know, two years now, um, a nice 200 plus 10 point and then a 160 and 60 something pound, six pointer. And I'll never forget I saw a better angle of the picture today in the video today and yet again it wasn't not a big rack but Holy hell, this body on this deer is insane. And I'll never forget, like when I started to realize more about hunting, like, I think, my like when I was in middle school I saw deer in maine and you know it's something that I've always saying, I grew up there in the summer and everything like that.

Speaker 2: 27:53

But this deer was on state and it was just a doubt, was on steroids. Compared to jersey deer, like it was just massive and it's. It's such a different experience because, you know, there you're man, it's all about weight, it's all about that 200 pound club. If you can get into that 200 pound club, that far and still, in my opinion, still far outweighs, you know, a big antler deer, because that's a whole, that's a, that's a big accomplishment, especially in a state like that. Like you know, a 200 pound deer is no easy task in the big woods, I mean. I mean you're gonna get lost easily, you know, and it's just, it is overwhelming. It is very overwhelming because there's so much, so much woods to to be dealt with it's actually also freeing, though.

Speaker 5: 28:41

I mean I actually specifically key in on the Uehara here because it's 54,000 acres. If you have a tracking mentality, the worst thing that can happen to you is that you get on a big track and he crosses a river or he goes on to private or he goes somewhere that you can't follow him. You follow a track all day, six miles, and he swims across the river. He goes on private. That's terrible, you know. So the nice part about is is also a blessing, because in a place like that, when you get on a big track, you can run that deer down. You're not going to run out of land, they're not nomadic, he's not going 30, 30 miles, you're going to catch him. Now you've got some obstacles, but when you've got that kind of land, that's exactly why I hunt at the Wahari because 54,000 acres, I cut a big track.

Speaker 3: 29:38

I'm running him down.

Speaker 5: 29:39

He's not getting away. I've got a belt of land.

Speaker 2: 29:45

I'm running him down. I'll agree with that. Next topic you know technology and where we've come so far in technology. You know what's your guys' opinion on the use of technology. What is too much? Do you think the state of where we're at now that's where it needs to be and needs to stay? But let's be honest, it's probably going to keep pushing the boundaries and you're just going to see more states ban trail cameras and things like that.

Speaker 4: 30:21

So any one of you guys want to take this off the off the jump, you're more than welcome to. I think technology's kind of hurt our hunting in a way and don't get wrong, it's helped create a better deer population and deer genetics in some fashion, so don't get wrong about that point. But I'm saying when it comes to the hunter, um, I think we rely on it too much. We get we, like I said, we rely on these hunting apps and they're great and all, but we rely on them too much and I think you get people that are losing their woodsmanship and they're not following their gut. They're following more of what the data is saying and stuff like that.

Speaker 4: 31:02

I've talked about it on other podcasts where I've ran into scenarios where I was like you know what, I'm going to try to listen to what this app says and this guy three percent chance of me getting a seeing a deer and I don't go hunt. And next I know my phone's blowing up because there's deer running everywhere. And then vice versa, on days where it says I have a 98 chance of seeing a deer and I don't see shit. So and I'm the type of hunter where I try to do less when I. What I mean by that is I don't try to do a lot of food plots, scrapes, stuff like that. I just go out there and I try to do it.

Speaker 4: 31:33

Wit versus wit, that's just my style. I like to know if I can track these deer through my winter type scouting that I do and I can shoot them in an area where I know that they're mostly going to be going to be traveling through. That's how I like to do it and I think some people still do that. And I think technology, like I said, technology people are losing, um, what hunting really used to be about, and it's more of well, what can I do on social media as well, on top of it all? So that's just my personal stance on it. I think it's helped and hurt in a lot of ways, but I think it's hurting the hunter in more ways than none just to uh second off of that, yeah, just to uh the second.

Speaker 3: 32:23

Off of that, I definitely agree with the majority of what you're saying. I'll tell you right now of all the bucks that I've shot I don't know if it's just because I suck at hanging trail cameras, but I think of all the bucks I've shot, I think I've only ever gotten actual pictures of one of them. Really, yep, every other buck I've ever shot has been just hunting a random food source early season, hunting rub lines, hunting strength lines, hunting the eggs of bedding, you know, hanging on just saying, hey, we'll give this a shot. Yeah, that's been almost every deer that I've ever taken. That's also because I'm very picky with where I spend my money taken. Um, that's also because I'm very picky with where I spend my money.

Speaker 3: 33:08

And if you have a private piece of ground, you're running a ton of cameras. That's a different thing. But I'm never running more than two, three, four cameras a year at a time and, uh, that's just not enough to really get a good grasp of a lot of these areas. So I'll generally use them if I'm hunting over a bait site just for meat for does earlier late season. Other than that, uh, with the bucks, I've had really no success using trail cameras to my advantage for, um, for bucks. As for all the apps and all that, I've tried them um. Same thing as you said, um, I've never had any luck with them.

Speaker 3: 33:42

They've uh they haven't helped me out at all, so I don't use them at all not even onyx or anything like that I use onyx just to find property lines because I'm I know everyone not too many people here are, I don't think anyone here is. In my area of jersey, um, we hunt a lot of really, really small pieces of ground. The biggest buck I ever shot was a six-point that scored I think he scored 106 or 104 as a basic six and he weighed over 200. I think he was 206. So he was a big deer and I shot that deer on. Overall was 20 acres for 20 acre piece of public.

Speaker 3: 34:27

I was hunting 50 yards from my truck and the only reason I decided to hunt there was I parked. A few days before I parked I walked in 20 feet and I found a giant scrape line right off the uh right off the road there. So I hung my stand right next to the truck and I actually watched that buck walk out. He walks less than 10 yards from my truck out of his bed. He was bedded right next to my truck. He didn't care. But again, that was just another example of a lot of those small areas that we hunt around here. I'm hunting right up on houses a lot of the time, so I have to know right where the property lines are.

Speaker 1: 35:05

Other than that I don't use anything.

Speaker 2: 35:10

Gotcha, gotcha.

Speaker 5: 35:12

Reaper. Yeah, hey, sure. So this is a tough one for me. I have to be honest. So I have a love-hate relationship with technology. Let me just clear an alert here on my screen I have a love-hate relationship with technology.

Speaker 5: 35:30

Let me give you the two most extreme examples. So, on one hand, I don't use any third-party apps. I did wait until Spartan went full price and I and I paid the yearly to support Bill as a, you know. But I I don't use it. I don't use any apps like that.

Speaker 5: 35:51

I have a Garmin that I use and I very much, very, very much love my Garmin. It makes life much easier and I use it. I can link all of my Garmins together my watch, my hunting handheld and my fishing. And when you do hunting, fishing and other activities, it's nice to have everything in one place. So Garmin really fills that void for me. It would be nice if other apps like the Onyxes and the Spartans would kind of collaborate with Garmin and share some technology. That would be great. That's where all my like waypoints and stuff are. So it's just hard for me to switch at this point, kind of emphasizing my love-hate relationship.

Speaker 5: 36:34

So, back in the day, woodsmanship is something I have now. Back in the day, I think I used to kill a lot of big deer because I used to be able to read a compass and being able to go very, very deep and get away from people and go back to the back of those cattail swamps and stuff like that. Being able to read a compass separated me from 99% of other people and it enabled me to find big deer easily that weren't hunted. And I had a lot of success before technology doing that, before cameras and all of that. With a compass tracking I would get on big deer. And today, because of a lot of the apps, you start to see people pass your cameras in some of these really remote places and so big deer have become more accessible to everybody. Now, okay, then that's fine. If you're in South Dakota, right. But when you're in North Carolina and not every county has a 150, not every city, state or not every town, city, county even has a 150, not every farm has a 150. So when you got people at the backs of your swamps, now just cause they have onyx. That has changed hunting for the worse, so love it. Because of apps like Garmin. They saved me from having to read a compass from utilities like Garmin Hate it, because now three people that live on my street can go to the back of the same swamp with their little app and feel pretty safe. They're not going to die. So that definitely hurts us.

Speaker 5: 38:08

With trail cameras, what I will say is I killed big deer before we had trail cameras. Don't need them to do so. Most of my kill spots now don't have cameras because I have them dialed in. But, with that being said, I actually run a lot of cameras. I have a major data collection effort I've been doing now for 12 seasons, and a lot of the stuff that I'm working on behind the scenes wouldn't be possible if I wasn't running so many cameras and because of that, because of my situation, I'm grateful for that, for having the ability to run cameras.

Speaker 5: 38:47

However, I'll end with saying that I don't think I personally think that cell cameras hurt you more than they help you. I do think they should allow SD cameras. I think they should force people to use hunt off, woodsmanship and historical data. You know when breeding happened here, when acorns fell there, et cetera, et cetera. Right, like you can use cameras to historically see when farmers harvest. I mean, I think it's great to take your SD cameras for historical data. Combine that with woodsmanship to kill deer as many as you want.

Speaker 5: 39:24

I think cell cameras hurt you. I can see why people outlaw cell cameras, especially in conjunction with baiting. When you start talking about, you know, remotely accessible feeders, remotely live streaming cameras, thermal drones. Now you start to layer technology just too too much and you basically have the forward-facing sonar, like bass fishing for white tails. Um, and it is a little too much. I think it's fine in the name of science, but, um, I think the guys in ohio are really seeing the pains. Sorry to be long-winded as well. That's a passionate topic for me, so sorry about that frank before you go.

Speaker 2: 40:07

I want to touch on a few of that, because it's that's the big thing. Is is where trail cameras are and everything like that. Listen, I, I love them, I hate them and you know, for the longest time, and I will stay this until they everywhere bans them. It's not the end all be all. Nothing is in hunting First of all, I think, is the end all be all, and it's a tool. It's great for gathering data.

Speaker 2: 40:33

Now, I will agree, they get me hung up a little bit because you know, and something that I've learned from Reaper is you know if you have, if you're getting at home and you're getting that hot sign, you're too late. You know it's something that you're you're. You told you like oh well, you know you're too late, you need to be there before that happens. Um, so, and for the longest time, a lot of people you hear oh, I got a big buck on camera, I got to go hunt that spot, you know where. When our first time sitting down talking to to you, you're like no, that's that's, you're already late there. You need to beat that deer to that. You need to get that intel, that that historic data that you've been working on for for all these years and everything like that, and you kind of can, like you said, now you don't even need a damn. You don't need cameras in in your kill spots because you know already what's going on.

Speaker 5: 41:24

Um, but I hate it's also just because of the south and our rut is not typical it starts in early september and runs through february. So if you're not using cameras, how would you time you just be hunting over pregnant, does I mean? Yeah, how would you time? You know you there's ways now that I know, like you, you know that I share with people, like you know with fawning and and and the. You know measuring contracts and stuff like that. There's ways to tell. But I would never deciphered that without cameras. I mean, it was a blessing to have them.

Speaker 2: 42:00

Yeah, no, they, they are, and I think you're right. I think SD cameras are kind of like. I miss those times where I would use just sd cameras. But then also I love being able to put a camera somewhere deep and shitty to get into and I really don't want to go back where I can just leave no, no scent, and I can just let it sit and just get straight up pictures. Just, you know, right away. You know, like you said's, a love hate relationship.

Speaker 5: 42:29

Now on the drone topic, cause I, you know, can I add one last thing on that topic real quick Cause here's another talk, cause you boys are going to Maine and here's another thing you're talking about like cameras and stuff. But if you have like a signpost rub and you don't hang a camera on it, um, and you go to that signpost rub and you pick up a three inch track back to his back, to his 200 pound six point. It's upsetting when you've gone six miles to find out you're tracking an 80 inch four point. That's five years old. You know like yeah, that camera can save you a lot of like all right, like we're not going to chase that buck because he's got a broken main beam. You know like it can kind of save you a lot of pain too when it comes to not just all about like you know no, I I agree, I agree with you real hard to kill deer, you know oh, a hundred percent.

Speaker 2: 43:24

It's still always going to be hard to kill deer. Um, you know we got an episode coming out with a drone recovery. So I love drone recovery just for finding deer. I think that, um, after you for, for, obviously, recovery purposes, you know, um, outside of that, I do 100 love how you can't use it for scouting or anything like that, because I think that's you're pushing it too far. But I do believe that it's after you've done everything you need to do, you know, to try to find that deer, or it's just a really, really bad shot. I have no issues with you know somebody calling a drone and be like hey, listen, this is what, this is what it's used for, that's it. Boom, you find your, your deer that you probably would have lost or or not recovered, and you know you're you're able to go from there. Um, besides that, you got to keep drones out of hunting yep, no, I agree, yep.

Speaker 1: 44:24

So for me, touch base on the ony thing. So I think it's good in a way, because it allows you to not only see the property lines, but what another good thing is if you can set it so it can track you Right. So if anything ever came of it Right, track you right. So if anything ever came of it right so you could, you should be able to find your way out or at least have an idea to where it could put you, to where, like, okay, I know where I'm at, hopefully. Um, but again to reaper's point, I had a lot of people that never hunted, never seen anybody in my spots in five years, and last year, all of a sudden, I got three people, you know, on top of me looking at their phones, you know.

Speaker 5: 45:13

So I don't want people to like get lost and die, but that yeah, yeah, prevented them from hunting my spots is the fact that there was like a 50 50 chance they would die, exactly. So it was like you know it.

Speaker 1: 45:25

It's like yeah, so I get what you're saying with that. But as far as, like, the cell cameras, I think I think they're good. You know, I of course I use them, but I think it's good to get inventory, kind of figure out who's in there. But for me I also kind of feel like it takes. So if you, if you have a really good buck that comes out in front of you, right, sometimes you have that gut instinct, this is the one, I'm going to shoot them, right.

Speaker 1: 45:57

But sometimes the cell cameras or any camera leads you to stay on one specific deer, which has happened to me too, I said, ok, he runs with this deer, he's got to be behind them, or or he's coming right and this beautiful buck walk. I let walk by and then all of a sudden nothing shows up, right. So you're like damn it, I had that gut feeling that that was the one and I should have shot him, but I didn't, you know. So sometimes you put yourself in the ass, you know, but uh it makes us too, makes us too picky, basically what well, down here in the south, though we don't have deer like that, though we every farm doesn't have a 150.

Speaker 5: 46:42

Here you have to um, if, if you didn't, you know, if you didn't have cameras, you could waste a lot of time trying to find a big deer. I mean it would be very difficult. I mean it's not like in New York, where we just go to every dairy farm had a nice buck, yeah, no, yeah, buck on every farm.

Speaker 1: 47:03

That's not how it is here.

Speaker 5: 47:05

So you're forced to kind of go canvas, and for a big I mean it's spotlighting. I mean guys that back in the day, you know, we just ride bean fields and shine the shine. Yeah, knock on doors if we found a big one, but today it's tough to knock on doors.

Speaker 2: 47:23

That's a tough game yeah, it is, and that adds another whole aspect of just door knocking is just yeah, you used to show up with a big bag of tomatoes and they'd let you hunt.

Speaker 1: 47:33

But today, yeah, yeah that's how my family used to do it. Oh, buy vegetables from you, or whatever yeah, here's four watermelons. Can I bow hunt so?

Speaker 2: 47:42

yeah, yeah no you're right brett, everyone, everyone white on that one right brett, did you go?

Speaker 4: 47:51

yeah, I started it off every now.

Speaker 2: 47:53

That was a long one, just so my my memory on that one was it's kind of shit.

Speaker 2: 47:58

Um, you know what this? This is a kind of interesting one. Um, you know how, how do you especially as bow hunters right, how do we handle our disappointment after a hunt? You know how do you really like, what's your process to get yourself back in in that place where you need to be mentally like we've talked about earlier. Bow hunting is such a mental aspect. You know, if you have a bad shot, you wound a deer, you know, or your bow's off or there's something wrong with your bow, or you just get into this mental aspect where, where things aren't going well, how do you guys bounce out of that? How, how could somebody listen to this, be like? You know what this is. Maybe I need to change my, my ways of thinking, or whatever the case it is.

Speaker 3: 48:54

Well, my way is certainly not very healthy. I just get very down on myself and very depressed for three or four days until I can get back out in the woods. Honestly, I don't have too much else to say on that. I don't.

Speaker 4: 49:09

I don't handle it too well personally I've been there, um, I think so when I get down, I or I make a bad shot on a deer and I can't find them, or whatever the case may be, as a bowhunter I live in that state of depression or just down and luck, shit, that sucks, moment I. I live in that for a good day or two and I purposely leave myself in that because I just want to make sure, because when I do get out of it, I use that as a motivator to like all right I'm, I want to make sure that doesn't happen again. So, like I said, I purposely stay in that, that mindset of a day or two. So it's like it forces me to do better, going forward, of making sure whatever I did wrong it doesn't happen again.

Speaker 4: 50:01

So it's like a weird like you know, they tell you kids like don't put your your fork in an outlet, so you teach yourself that that's kind of how I look at it, where I made a bad shot, what I did wrong, and I start overanalyzing everything and it's like shit, now I'm just pissed and down on myself and, like I said, I live in that moment for a good day or two and I'm just like all right, that sucked. Now I'm over it. I remembered it. It's going to stick with me forever. Now Now I can move forward with it and now that those two days are over me sitting in my room crying about it, it's not going to affect anything more. It's done over with. So now I got to move forward with it and, like I said, that's, that's how I handle my depression type parts of it.

Speaker 2: 50:47

Interesting, interesting.

Speaker 1: 50:52

Frank depression type parts of it. All interesting, interesting frank.

Speaker 2: 50:54

Yeah, so it's actually happened to me last year, so um, same here, same here.

Speaker 1: 50:57

Yeah, so I shot a beautiful uh three-pointer you. I practiced a hundred times at 40 yards. He was like 42. I was like I got this. What's. You know what's the difference? What's? Another two yards made him hit him low.

Speaker 1: 51:15

Um, I instantly went into depression because I watched the deer for two hours lay down and get up and walk and eat, like it's fine. Then lay down again. Um, but a lot believe it or not, a lot of people reach, reached out to me, actually outdoor more squats was one of them. It was like, hey, man, like it happens, like it's not your fault, like so that kind of brought me back, but I was still down on myself for a little bit.

Speaker 1: 51:43

But I mean, things happen. You can't prevent everything, right, so everything happens for a reason. You learn to be so from that. You learn that it doesn't make you a bad hunter because you know some. You know you hit a stick or you accidentally punched your trigger or whatever. So you got to, you got to learn that nothing's 100% perfect. Things happen. Like I said, sometimes they happen for a reason and hopefully, like in my case, I didn't get another chance on him, but we know he lived. So the feeling of, okay, I could get another shot at him, maybe in a couple weeks, on the road, like kept me going, yeah brandon, how about you?

Speaker 5: 52:41

yeah. So, um, I would say that I have a very fast paced season with limited sits, so I don't sit a lot. All of my hunts are already pre-planned, I know where I'm going to be, when I'm going to be at those scrapes, based on you know when I've had day walkers there, when I'm expecting deer there, whether they're bucks or not. So very regimented, fast paced season. So I don't really have a lot of time to sit in my feelings. But, with that being said, it happens right, and it happened to me last year too. So last year I decided to pick up a trad bow for the first time ever. Um, I ended up going out and, um, I had a trad bow double. I shot, shot two does, which was crazy, and I was like, wow, like this is I don't know why people think this is so hard right, like. So turned around and went back out the very next morning and to shoot a third doe, because I call it Dovember. I don't like the rut, I hate the rut. I try to kill my bucks before that. So, come November, I call it Dovember. I just shoot a ton of does. So I think it's seven does last year.

Speaker 5: 53:51

So, anyway, I went back out with the Trad bow and tried to shoot a third one, and I did. The next morning I shot a third doe and I lost that deer, and it's the first deer that I lost in a really long time actually. And so I was in neck deep water with gators like looking for this deer. I was going out to just really putting myself at risk trying to find this deer till like four in the morning and I could not find her. Um, uh, flew the drone could not find her anywhere. So um gave up on her first year I lost in a while and the next two days. Today I did feel dumpy about that. In fact I haven't even shot my recurve since.

Speaker 5: 54:33

Full disclosure. I don't know if I'm going to hunt with it this year. My goal was to try to shoot a um. I won't kill a spike, but anything with a forked antler with my recurve this year was going to be my goal, um, but I, you know now I haven't even shot it because of that. So I think, well, it's easy to say I just move on to the next deer, I don't get hung up.

Speaker 5: 54:54

Big fish break me off next to the boat all the time. I mean, you know I shoot ducks, lose them, can't find them, sort of like the black coyote. I had that black coyote, dead nuts, 30 yards, staring at me, did not? I put the, the magazine in my ar, did not rack one in, pulled up nothing, not even a click. Nothing, just the things, the black kind of. So you know, the deer getting away. That wasn't the worst thing that happened to me this year. I lost probably a state record flathead next to the boat, lost an 80 pound blue next to the boat, had the black coyote happen, lost a duck in the grass. So that shit happens a lot. But I would be lying if I said it didn't phase me because I still haven't shot my recurve. I kind of was like, um, I don't feel good about it anymore. So, um, it affects me and I've killed lots of deer and it affects me yeah, I think it's.

Speaker 2: 55:45

It's something hard not to, I think when, especially when you you really know you have that bad of a shot, especially like a gut shot or something like that. You know a big part of my process and I think it on it it this helps me a lot. I get to film a lot of my hunts, so I get to break down film. You know that's the big part of why I love filming my hunt so much is I get to break down everything that I've done wrong in a hunt and figure out how I can fix it. You know is missing is injuring a deer, earth shattering. To me, yes, it is. I feel like crap, just like everybody else on this podcast and probably listening to does as well. Right, you know, but I just I immediately start to get into what did, what happened, what went wrong.

Speaker 2: 56:39

I break down Was it a, a mechanical issue? You know was did something? Did something go wrong with my equipment? Because that's usually the first thing I want to knock out the park, because if it's a equipment problem, I know I cannot go out and go, continue to go hunt. You know I'm not gonna. You know, after I'm done tracking this deer, anything I'm not playing, okay, the next time I get to go out and hunt, I'm going to. I'm going to go hunt. No, I got to go now. Go to the range and go fix that problem. You know, once I determine if what it is, if it's more was me, you know what? Sometimes, yeah, you throw that like you get down on yourself. But at least for us in Jersey, we have a long season, so I can't sit there the whole entire time and feel bad for myself because you know what, then I'm not gonna get it done, you know. So I just kind of got to get myself to go through the emotions and and breathe. I think sometimes my bad shots are when I'm, when I'm rushing.

Speaker 5: 57:44

If I start rushing, uh, it's not gonna be good so when I ruin, when I ruin my chances at a deer, it's not always because I shot him so I get. I only hunt specific bucks down here because there's so few good bucks, so I'm typically only hunting. I don't always shoot specific animals, because sometimes, like last year, I shot a 10 while hunting another buck, but I pretty much only hunt specific deer and I ruin it without even shooting at them sometimes. Sometimes they see me in the tree, sometimes they wind me, sometimes I get a shot off, if I'm lucky. Sometimes I just completely booger it up and generally once I think a buck knows I'm hunting him, I abandon ship.

Speaker 5: 58:31

I immediately go to the next buck on the list. It might not be for five or six days where he dilated at that scrape previously, but I immediately just abort and go to the next buck because I. So. I guess what I'm saying is, while it did suck to shoot that doe and lose her, it also sucks when you just you get it all right and you nail it and your big buck comes in and wins you. Or he picks you out of the tree, or it sucks shooting out of a missing tube. But when you do all that work and he picks you out of the tree.

Speaker 2: 58:59

It's like you know I I'll agree with that. I don't think that I knew I should have used some cover, like you're pissed at yourself.

Speaker 5: 59:09

You know. It's like, yeah, and he blows and you're like why the did I grunt? Yeah, I'm stupid.

Speaker 2: 59:18

You know I try to look at it like I. I always tell my patients out of doesn't matter what it is, that you try to pull at least some type of positive out of that. At least I know that's a mistake that I can learn from I. I you know my win was wrong, damn it. I knew I I should have done this differently. You know I knew I should have maybe picked a better tree with better cover.

Speaker 2: 59:41

You know all these different things, the I probably one of my earth shattering hunts where I actually it was rough but everything went right and my dropaway sight didn't go down and it stripped my arrow and it popped right in front of the deer and every yeah, that one hurt because everything was right, everything was perfect. I mean, even my shot placement was perfect. It just lost its steam and just popped right in front of where it needed to go and that killed me and I was like, oh my God, like what can I do differently, even though there's nothing I could do differently? Like you start, like why me? Why me? Like it's an emotional thing. Hunting is an emotional.

Speaker 5: 1:00:26

It's worse when you do it yourself. I agree. Thing hunting is an a emotional worse when you do it yourself. I agree. One of the only one of the few booners I've ever had a real chance at, I I don't know why in my dumb assery chose to try to take the shot with the quiver on my old bow and when I was about, when I started to draw back, the quiver fell off and it's like you know that's worse when you do something really stupid, like you know to take the quiver off. You know like you've been doing that. You know your dad told you take the quiver off. You've been taking the quiver off your whole life. Now all of a sudden you decide to go rambo, leave it on and you like, and that's how you lose a big deer you know, so yeah that's tough, that's, that's a tough walk back to camp.

Speaker 2: 1:01:10

Yeah, yeah, no, it is you know, kind of in the same aspect.

Speaker 2: 1:01:16

I, I want to. You know this is kind of like a question, but it really goes off of what we, we kind of just talked about is have you ever had a hunting experience that made you question why you do it and how did you overcome those doubts, if, if any have anyone like I personally say I I haven't and I hope I never experience something that that makes me question it. Um, I'm pretty confident with, but I have seen people do some pretty shitty things and you know, I I'm pretty sure I discovered a, a poached bear during turkey season, um, a beautiful black but that was big, that had a uh, around a 50 cow muzzleloader around stuck in it, you know, and the head was gone. So I can't say for sure what happened, but I'm pretty sure whoever shot it shot it, left it there, the saw was still there. So the saw was still there, so the saw was still there that they used to cut the head off, right, that was like that was shitty.

Speaker 2: 1:02:15

But it never made me question what, what we do, because there's always going to be bad apples in my eyes, no matter how perfect you know, no one's perfect, but no matter what we do, there's always going to be some asshole out there that makes us look bad. Frank, if you want to get this, any of you guys want to get it, no problem.

Speaker 1: 1:02:40

Brent or Brett, you want to go, you want me to go?

Speaker 4: 1:02:43

You can go, Frank.

Speaker 1: 1:02:45

All right, all right. So for me, I've never had anything that made me doubt, you know, not wanting to do this anymore, or have me question, hey, like maybe I shouldn't do this anymore. I mean, yeah, I've haven't. You know, there's been a few shitty shots or bad decisions on you know my shots, but uh, I mean I always go back to why I do it right.

Speaker 1: 1:03:18

So you know, I just I love being out there. It's like it's my therapy, so I just love me, even if I don't see nothing. I mean, yeah, it sucks sometimes not seeing anything, but I just I love seeing up, like being up there in the dark or whatever, seeing everything come to life. You know, and this and the same as you know, watching right when the sun goes down. You watch and you know you're just watching that sun come down. So for me, I've never, I never questioned it, because it's something I love and I'll continue to do for the rest of my life, and I can't wait to bring my son up when he gets two more years, two more years mike, and then he's gonna be coming out with us.

Speaker 1: 1:03:57

So can't wait.

Speaker 4: 1:03:57

I can't wait to show him I've never had a situation where I can't say never. I think the first time I were I was like a question myself why I was doing this, or, whatever the case may be, was the time I shot my very first deer was like shit, I suck, why am I doing this? I'll never be good at it, whatnot? But I was 13, young and dumb and I thought I was king shit with my bow leading up to this season, and then my dad told me he's like well, you're gonna miss that's, that's bow hunting, that's deer hunting and uh, I think it's more of. Now. There's like I said, there's no.

Speaker 4: 1:04:36

I see moments where I see like I think I saw last week I saw a photo of a deer where its whole neck was just chopped off, and I see those stories or those photos and I think it more pisses me off to where, like I want to do more to bring hunting of spotlight on hunting instead of just like backing away from it. So I don't think there's ever a point, and I don't think there ever will be a point where something happens Like you know what I'm done with hunting? This is all bullshit, why not? I think it's just going to drive me more, to put more of a spotlight on hunting and not even just hunting itself, the people that are actually promoting it in in a great way, a positive way, and that's just how I see things. I don't.

Speaker 2: 1:05:22

I would agree with that. That's a good one. That was, you know, one of those instances I don't know if anyone remembers or anyone saw this was was that PA hunter, that kid that shot that deer and then was like kicking it in the face and like suffocating. It's only it popped up, yeah, I think around COVID or something like that. That one pissed me. That was. That was a rough one to watch and yet again, it didn't make me question, but that one pissed me off Like that was just disgusting, absolute behavior that unfortunately makes us look bad.

Speaker 4: 1:05:57

I was seeing those photos I think it was two years ago where people were taking selfies with the deer, like they're laying next to it, I think it was two years ago, right when it's like, ooh, look at me.

Speaker 4: 1:06:07

And they got the picture of their're laying next to it. I think it was two years ago, right, where it's like oh, look at me, and they got the picture of their deer right next to them on the ground. Honestly, I hate fucking people that do that type of shit. Like in my opinion, like I said, people that watch my show they know I'm not going to sugarcoat anything I think people that do that type of photos and stuff like that I think it's disgusting. You're, you're.

Speaker 4: 1:06:23

You're putting a bad spotlight on hunters as well and you're putting a bad spotlight on hunters as well, and you're putting a bad spotlight on hunting.

Speaker 4: 1:06:28

That's not what us, as hunters, supposed to do. We're supposed to be out there getting the meat at the end of the day, putting meat in the freezer for our families, or you're just going out there to enjoy hunting and sharing the meat with friends and family photos, and it's to me it's disgusting because you're just out there making in my opinion, making fun of the deer in a way, and you're supposed to be honoring this deer. I just that my background, coming with growing up and hunting, was you. Just if you were to show any type of disrespect towards the deer, you were basically in my family. You're gonna be looked at differently because of that. You have to show that deer and and not just deer but human beings with respect, and to take a photo like that and any of those other photos back in the day with memes it, it's a huge disrespect to the deer. So I, like I said, I just find that stuff disgusting and heartbreaking.

Speaker 5: 1:07:24

I agree ethan uh reaper anything on the on those topics, on that topic so I mean, for me, I've pretty much dedicated my time to teaching people how to hunt. So, um, I've I've all but doubled down. Um, I can't think of a time where I didn't find really hunting and fishing in general just therapeutic. I love it. It's just, you know, there's never been a time where I've really questioned either on the topic of something I may have regretted Running a lot of cameras on a lot of scrapes for a lot of years.

Speaker 5: 1:08:04

I have had some trials and tribulations over the years. One of them was like one year I had 13 fawns get killed on camera. Several years ago, before I knew much about I, was out down here in the south, where we have a wide rut, fawns are dropping. In the south, where we have a wide rut, fawns are dropping in April and May and there's not really a lot of grass yet or or cover, and I was making mock scrapes. I know now you'll hear me a lot push that you should wait to. If you're going to add scent to a scrape, do it after the 4th of July. Back in those days I was experimenting with scent too, which I don't use anymore, but I was back then and I was making scrapes early using scent and one year it all just kind of came to a point and I had 13 fawns get killed on camera.

Speaker 5: 1:08:57

I don't know how many damn fawns got killed off camera, but it was. It was bad and that did make me question. I went into that situation feeling very elevated. In my knowledge there wasn't a lot of people making scrapes or using mock scrapes, or there wasn't really, it wasn't on the internet, you know internet or nobody talking about it in magazines or nothing. So it was feeling very cocky about my abilities.

Speaker 5: 1:09:24

And then all of a sudden having fawns get slaughtered like that, with the invention of getting all these SD cameras and stuff out, over the course of several years this evolved. So that was a big regret but I adjusted. I didn't want to quit hunting or anything. I did consider quit using scrapes and then now I just use them after the 4th of July. But that was something I did regret. But overall I think that hunting has provided me an outlet to not find drugs and be a criminal. So you know, and if we, we, you know we feed our family, I feed my family off these deer and my loved ones and my friends I mean off the pig, the deer, the fish, and you know this is sustenance, just like growing vegetables in the garden. So you know it's food too. There were times in my life where I was poor, so for me hunting's never really been. I never doubted it. I only doubted aspects of things I was doing.

Speaker 3: 1:10:30

Definitely to echo a bit off of what everyone else has said haven't had a moment that really made me question it as a whole. Last year is a good example. I probably had one of my favorite hunts of all time when I shot a real nice bear on the ground with my bow up in North Jersey, which was awesome. I'll never forget it. But outside of that one morning, last season was by far the worst season I've ever had. I know.

Speaker 3: 1:11:00

At one point, because I kept a journal of every hunt that I had been on, from the beginning to the end of the season, I was pushing 85% of my sits getting completely skunked, and at the time I was already really, really limited on time to begin with, and I was putting all of my spare time, my free time, away from the family, away from the girl, and just being out in the woods with absolutely nothing to show for it. So even though by the end of the year I cut my season a little short just because I knew it wasn't, it wasn't in the cards for me last year, um, and I was okay with that I hunted until until the second week of january, I believe. So I definitely pushed dang near till the end, um, but even after a year like that, it's never had anything really made me second.

Speaker 2: 1:11:44

Second guess my love for it yeah, I, I would agree with everyone. You know it's a. I don't see how many people can you know? I know some people just fall out of love with it maybe, or just you know, don't have the time and everything like that, but I think, second guessing what, we're doing.

Speaker 5: 1:12:06

I think not being successful kills more hunters than anything because, like you know, I have a family member who I'll just be out with it one of my sisters. She was into hunting and you know didn't want to really listen to food and bedding and wind and the kind of things that you need, rather than just take a pop-up, go out, sit in it and not see anything. You do that 20 times in the adirondacks in the cold. You know, all of a sudden you're like deer hunting sucks um, and I think that's what part of that is like. What led me to starting my page was trying to help people just get on a deer. You know, don't worry about big deer, just getting on a deer will keep you in the sport.

Speaker 2: 1:12:54

Yeah, all right, and you know one more, we'll do two more for all the family people out there. You know how do you find the time to balance family life, work life and your hunting life.

Speaker 4: 1:13:17

For me, my past experience being working in law enforcement for seven years, so attention to detail was one thing that was driven into me as a young age because my dad was a cop for 30 plus years.

Speaker 4: 1:13:31

I married into a military family.

Speaker 4: 1:13:35

I still have some family members that were in the military as well.

Speaker 4: 1:13:38

But to carve out family time and to carve out all these other activities in my life, I had to really look at my schedule day to day and I broke down like I even broke down into sleep of like all right, I want to have make sure I get at least six hours of sleep.

Speaker 4: 1:13:55

So I'm going to block off six hours of sleep from 1230 to 630 and whatnot and just break down hour by hour, day by day and to make sure, like all right, this is everything I'll be doing day in, day out. And I just made it into a routine of making sure I set aside family time, tour time, archery time for practicing with my bow, and then I made time for my own page, white television, to make sure I had time for, uh, just my own personal relaxation time away from family, away from my page and away from everything else. Just kind of mental, decompressed, but, like I said, I just took day by day, hour by hour and broke each thing down and make sure I separated each category, basically, and so everyone got a piece of me, basically.

Speaker 3: 1:14:45

I can definitely relate to that, brett. For those of you that don't know, I'm in law enforcement. It's part of the reason that I've been so dang busy the last two years because I spent just under a year in my police academy, which was all-encompassing, and then I spent a little over a year working the road as a patrolman and small department. You know got called in for a lot of you know last minute overtime shifts and all that, and you know I enjoyed it. I didn't mind it. But, um, at the end of the day, even after only just a year, I could tell clearly that I did not have the time that I was really looking for to do everything else that I wanted to do. I didn't have the time to devote to my family, to my passions, x, y, z. So I ended up staying in law enforcement, still in law enforcement, but I ended up transferring over to a sheriff's department and I don't know how the sheriff's department works over by you guys.

Speaker 3: 1:15:41

I know it's different everywhere you go, but I'm currently a part of the Broughton County Sheriffs and we do Monday to Friday, 9 to 5, because a lot of our work is in the courts, and even though that 9 to 5,. A lot of people dread the idea of a 9 to 5, just the fact that it's standard. It's the same every week. I know that I'll be working that Monday to Friday 9 to 5. I still get to work in the profession that I love, but it allows me to plan a lot more accordingly outside of work, which so far has been fantastic for me.

Speaker 4: 1:16:13

Yeah, that's one thing I didn't like as a lot, because you didn't know you were going to be forced over on days. You didn't know if you're going to be forced in or you're working on your shift and you're going to be working six more hours because you pulled over a drunk driver and you just never knew. And then you had to work on holidays and to see you missed that. So you just don't know on a regular schedule like that. And now I got a job where I'm not ashamed to say that I work eight, three to five and I push court paperwork.

Speaker 4: 1:16:38

Now I'm somewhat still working in criminal justice um, not in law enforcement capacity like I used to, but I know that I'm going to get. I work 830 to 5, monday through Friday. I'm going to have certain days off here and there. So I know I have a set schedule now so I can plan things around it. Better than having to work a rotating schedule every other week and the crap like that. So having a set schedule really helps plan things out better for family wise I'm assuming you worked a lot of nights afternoons, nights, day shift.

Speaker 4: 1:17:12

I bounced everywhere but I mainly was on the afternoon into the night shift.

Speaker 3: 1:17:16

Yes, so, even though, um, you know, I was only in for about a year working standard patrol. One thing that shocked me so much and I'm interested to hear your perspective on this is I felt myself for the final six months working on the road definitely getting worn down. I wasn't getting a lot of sleep, I just didn't feel, I didn't feel healthy and within a week of me getting off the road and getting on a normal sleep schedule, my resting heart rate dropped from high 60s to mid 50s inside of a week and it was shocking how much better I felt. I'm curious if you experienced anything like that, because all I heard was nice.

Speaker 4: 1:17:58

I did it for seven years and I worked the road and the jail, so I've done a mix of everything and working the midnight shift I turned into a different person, basically, and to finally get off that, even working on the afternoon shift I still noticed I was a little bit of a different person, health wise and leading up towards my saying I'm done with it, I was kind of noticing my health was starting to somewhat feel better because I knew now I meant I made it known to myself where, right, this is done, I'm over with it, and I started feeling somewhat better and I've actually, after leaving, that I am getting on a normal day sleep, where normal people should be sleeping on.

Speaker 4: 1:18:38

Um, I noticed my blood pressure is down, my anxiety is down for the most part. Uh, blood pressure, like I said, all that's just. It seemed to like basically like go away in a way, in a sense, and now I'm feeling healthier, stronger and I'm not in the shape like I used to be, but because I got two kids now running around so I can't work out as much as I used to. But health wise, yes, I'm feeling 10 times better than what I was.

Speaker 2: 1:19:05

Yes, I'm feeling 10 times better than what I was. That's great, no, it's, it's listen, working, especially you know ethan, working that, yeah, over in that night or overtime shift, I mean it's, it's brutal. Now, you know I went from working psych and you know, brett, we, we talked about this. No, did we talk? I can't remember who I talked about it with, but you know, working any type of shift where your, your hours of sleep is changing, and you know, you look at the studies and you know so for me I'd worked from three to eleven, thirty, anywhere to twelve or one or two.

Speaker 2: 1:19:45

I'm not on a normal sleep schedule, so I'm not getting, I never got the proper amount of sleep. You know it's scientifically. Your body should be going to bed probably before 12 o'clock, whatever. So your body would never get get a chance to to fully recover. You know you didn't get that good recovery and seemed like I felt like shit so often. You know I I just wasn't sleeping well, I was anxious to, I guess, go to sleep and everything like that.

Speaker 2: 1:20:12

But now that I got this, this different schedule, where I wake up at six o'clock in the morning, I go outside, I'll work out. If I have time, I will, you know, do whatever I feel so much better. Going to bed has been so much easier. Now, I've always had a low resting heart rate, um, which is which is good. Um, you know it's, it's gone up before, but now that I'm back to working out, sleeping correctly, I'm still working on the eating correctly. Um, that that's. That's a bit difficult, um, but you know, every little thing affects us and you know. You look at it, america is probably the worst when it comes to to working, because we work way too damn much. I think I saw some study where I think, like it said, 40 of americans don't take a proper vacation I've seen that study.

Speaker 4: 1:21:06

Yeah, that's yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:21:08

And it's insane Cause I actually this was my first vacation going to what's his face said in years. You know, we we haven't done anything in like four years, you know, and it was finally nice to go on a vacation. You forget how much like you need a little break from your, your everyday madness, whether it's work or or whatever that, whatever you're going through, but, um, you know changing.

Speaker 4: 1:21:31

I think that that overnight is a killer I know some people they'll burn a friday every other friday just to give themselves a three week, a three-day vacation or three-day weekend going into that, just kind of giving that more mental break instead of taking like a full two week vacation.

Speaker 5: 1:21:49

Yeah, I think it's important to do something that you enjoy too, I'm 45 now. It's a lesson I've learned in my life it's important to do something that you enjoy. Um uh, for for me to answer that question, what I'll?

Speaker 1: 1:22:02

say is that um? I?

Speaker 5: 1:22:03

for me to answer that question. What I'll say is that my life has been tailored around my obsession. I selfishly say that I'm not ashamed to. I mean, I am in some degree, but I'm not. My wife is slumming it. She could do way better than me. I'm grateful to have her. We've 20 years now we've been together, but my daughter's a teenager. She also doesn't want to be around me. Her, we've 20 years now we've been together but, um, my daughter's a teenager. She, you know, also doesn't want to be around me.

Speaker 5: 1:22:28

So I'm kind of in the sweet spot right now where, um, my current wife has her hobbies and she's totally fine with me.

Speaker 5: 1:22:38

You know, my, my life, down to my career, has been tailored around my obsession. But what I will say is that I've been fired and I've been divorced over deer hunting. Um, and uh, I have, and so, um, I'm blessed to, I manage a utility and I work from home, and I'm blessed to have a career that I can mold around my obsession. If I need to be in the woods on a Thursday, I can work Saturday morning to make up for it, making POs or whatever. You know, it's not a big deal, um, and then my personal life. The same way, I'm blessed to have a family that um accepts, accepts my obsession and also shares my interests. So, um, I would say that if the two biggest things would be to make sure you have a career that you like, so that you're not feeling too stressed, and then to also make sure, if you're a young man, you know, make sure you're making good relationship decisions, which I did not do early on.

Speaker 1: 1:23:45

I can relate.

Speaker 2: 1:23:48

Now, since we're on that, that actually gives a good. We'll make this the last. What are some things that you guys do away from hunting and everything that kind of gets you in that relaxation where you kind of can step away and kind of just take a minute to yourself, like, what are some of the things you guys do?

Speaker 4: 1:24:09

I. I spend time with my, my wife and kids, and then outside of that I golf.

Speaker 4: 1:24:12

Those are my really two main things yeah, it's, I still have that competitiveness to be competitive in sports and I picked up golf and now I'm trying to be a really good golfer. But yeah that it's no matter what I shoot, or whatever I, I always want to shoot the best, obviously. But at the end I'm just out there enjoying and spending time with my dad and a couple of my buddies I've made out there, and when I'm out doing that, I spend time with my wife and kids. So it's kind of those two things really I definitely have gotten into um into firearms.

Speaker 3: 1:24:48

That's something that I've really gotten big into recently outside of spending time with the family and the lady, um, which is that's a given, that's an everyday thing. Something I spend a lot of time on myself is, um, it's just shooting. Getting really proficient with firearms through the job that started getting me into shooting handguns, which I never thought I would do, and then, uh, from there, shooting ar style rifles. And then I ended up going on a muzzleloader hunt down in georgia with a buddy of mine, for pigs got me into that, which got me more into standard long guns. Now I got all kinds of stuff coming in. I just bought a really nice lever action 4570, which I can't wait to start shooting. So for me, I spent a lot of time on the range. I'll teach people on the range. I'm getting certified to um. That's a secondary gig to start training and teaching people concealed carry courses in New Jersey. So that's another thing I'm doing.

Speaker 2: 1:25:40

So quick question are you going to get rid of the archery athlete? Are you going to come up with something different now?

Speaker 3: 1:25:47

Yeah, it's funny. I've had more than one person mention that to me, because they see me spending so much time in the summer on the rinks and I don't know yet. That'll yet to be seen. I know this year when I'm going to Colorado, I'm not bringing a bow, I'm bringing a mother's bow.

Speaker 2: 1:26:00

Oh, you're not, okay, all all right, all right. So, uh, big changes over here. Yeah, jesus, I mean ethan the last time we talked.

Speaker 3: 1:26:12

I mean what? These are some big changes, big changes, a lot of big changes over the last two years. Man, all good though no, that's, that's.

Speaker 2: 1:26:17

That's. That's pretty cool to hear. I think you know as much as I love bow hunting, it's going to be 98 of what I do, but it's nice to do something a little different. You know it's something that we touched on a lot this year during our season was kind of changing the pace a little bit, like you know, actually going out for six day firearm in New Jersey and going to use a gun instead of using a bow. You know, it's just a little a little change up a little.

Speaker 2: 1:26:41

You know it's nice to kind of like relax and I use that honestly, my gun hunting time to to like kick back and relax, cause I'm such a freak and crazy when it comes to to bow hunting and I put in so much time where, when it's with the gun, it's like I kind of kick my feet up, I get real nice and cozy. I'll bring, I'll bring like a full meal out in the woods and I'll just sit, uh sit a hundred yards away of of you know a field or something like that and just just tell it chill. I don't take it like as seriously as I would bow hunting where everything has to be perfect, but, like you know, I just, I don't care if I, even if I kill anything, if I just, you know, I'm just relaxing, it's nice, you know. But you know, on on that, for me I think I love, don't get me wrong I love hanging out with my fiance and we spend tons of time together. We, we do, you know. But I love playing video games. Actually I don't know what it is about, just certain games, obviously NHL. I'm pretty competitive in Apex and I'll play with like my friends and stuff like that. So that's actually like Kind of like relaxing for me. I'm a big Movie guy, big TV, you know, tv Shows with the fiance and stuff like that. And you know, just hanging out with my friends, even though I don't really do that Too much anymore because you know we're adults now and everyone's Busy and stuff like that. So like it's kind of gotten to the point.

Speaker 2: 1:28:07

I spend so much time outside, I work out outside, I do do all these things that I need something where I'm not busy. I need and that's why I kind of picked up video games, because from hunting to fishing, to to working out, to working at work, I am constantly under stress and I definitely would put work of working at psych with children, as just I have gray hair because of it, you know, and it is constantly moving around, and and video games makes me actually sit still for once, because if I'm not gaming or if I'm not working, like on a podcast or or scheduling stuff like that, I have to be moving. I can no longer just sit and do nothing, right, and I'll like there'll be times like, especially after the season, I'll just be sitting here and I'll be like what the what the fuck am I doing? I'm so bored. I want to go out in the woods, like I want to go do something, like I need to do something.

Speaker 2: 1:29:09

Sometimes I'll work out and if my fiance is not home and I don't feel like playing video games, I'm like I need to go work out again and I'll just literally just start. I'll go for a walk and then somehow I end up running and I come back. I'm like, oh, that's not enough and then I'll go do something else and it's like I need to actually sit down and do something. You know, I've gotten big into the health stuff and everything like that and my watch will literally tell me sit your ass down. You are you, you don't stop. You need to actually let your body just relax, and so now I've gotten into that. So video games actually helps me.

Speaker 4: 1:29:47

Sit here and just play video games and not concentrate on anything else I've gotten in trouble about my boss because he had to sit down majority of my time at work. And I've gotten in trouble. He's like you need to sit down at your desk more and do more work. And it's not like me running around and not doing work. I, I go up and I'm running down to the prosecutor's office to go grab files and stuff, but not. And he's like, yeah, you need to sit down and stay at your work. It's like, dude, I you know what I did for seven years of my life before I came here I can't sit still. And it's like the video games. Sometimes you're just like I don't mind playing some video games here and there.

Speaker 4: 1:30:21

I think in the past, from what I used to do and what Ethan did as well and Mike being in therapy, I think sometimes you need to do those things where you're just kind of sitting there and you're you're doing nothing in your mind, just like goes numb. Where you're just like you can sit there at a video game or just playing, watching a movie, and you're just you're not thinking of anything. You're just sitting there watching and you're not really thinking about anything else. You're just sitting there watching and you're not really thinking about anything else, you're just enjoying the movie, or you're just looking, watching through the movie. You just need a. Your body eventually needs to just kind of quote unquote, shut down and do absolutely nothing because you're moving constantly yep, I agree with you.

Speaker 2: 1:31:02

How about? How about you? The rest of you two?

Speaker 5: 1:31:08

I guess for me, um, this is how I relax, hunting is how I relax. So, um, I have a very demanding job. It really does stress me out quite a bit. I'm able to work when I want to work, but I have to work a lot. It's not 40 hours, um.

Speaker 5: 1:31:25

So I would say, you know, there are some things I do, I, I, you know, um, probably our most relaxing thing we do is is enjoying our property, which is an old person thing to say, um, but we love, you know, we have um micro, little micro farm. We grow just crazy amount of vegetables and we have a pool and we like to cook and barbecue and have a glass of wine on the screen porch, and we just love our property and that's probably the number one way we relax as a group. But for me, the hunt is how I relax, you know. I mean, for me it's chasing the unknown, it's the, the mature bucks, but it's the pleasure I get out of finding, like that, black coyote, or the fact that I have seven piebald deer that I'm following now on camera and it's like you know that I do a lot of observation sits where I just sit out in the gas line in my truck and watch. That is how I relax.

Speaker 5: 1:32:28

When my kid was little and she was not a teenager and she cared we would get ice cream and ride around back roads and oh, look at that buck. So this is how I relax, this is my therapy. So when I'm not hunting, I'm usually working and I'm stressed out. So if it's been a really, really, really bad week, I might go post up and try to watch a couple of those piebalds and just and relax.

Speaker 2: 1:32:53

I love it yeah, I will say real quick uh, bianca and I, we have this thing and I I started this with my, my grandfather, um, back when I was a little kid is we'd have a competition how many animals we could spot. So when we were driving, like, oh, there's a deer, oh, there's this, and it's carried over into Bianca where, literally yesterday, we're coming home from our event and I'm like, oh, there's deer, there's deer. And she gets up. She's like God, she's like how do you always do this? I go, I've been doing this since I was like six or seven years old, I mean I could spot a deer, you know whatever. And then she finally saw deer. She's like, ha, I got you know.

Speaker 2: 1:33:29

And it's gotten to this thing where, you know, I agree, like hunting, we do relax from hunting, but like I also need a grind, it is a grind. And yet, yet again, it's from now. It's going to be from september 7th all the way to the second week of February, with deer season, multiple black bear seasons, multiple states, waterfowl season, you know, pheasant hunting, any type of hunting that we can do. You know, fair enough, that makes it hard, man.

Speaker 5: 1:34:03

Yeah, bird hunting makes it hard. Yeah, bird hunting. And if you're trying to do squirrels and quail and pheasants and ducks and turkeys, and you're you got yeah, you got pointers and bird duck dogs and you could take on way too much yeah, I, I gave up turkey hunting, I gave up duck hunting, I gave up a lot of that just to stay with deer.

Speaker 5: 1:34:24

Um, and you're right, because I have cousins at duck hunt and stuff and they they can't give white tails the time really that's required to be super successful and because of that they're not super successful. And then they're like I could give two shits about deer hunting, but it's like no, you really like it, it's just you're busy duck hunting but that's the great thing about yeah that's the great thing about jersey it's so spread out like I won't think about waterfowl until at least after the rut.

Speaker 2: 1:34:56

So after that november, once we get into december, once it starts getting cold, then my mind starts to turn to that waterfowl. You know bear season's already done. You know we're going to be starting september 7th, then we have it again, I think the first or second week in october here in new jersey, then we have another one in december. You know it's. I'm grateful for our state being so spread out in such a long season where it's like I act, I actually get to enjoy kind of everything. You know, as long as I harvest my meat and I I get the meat that I need, I have no problem.

Speaker 2: 1:35:31

Because, you know, yet again, january 1st starts and now we're talking um predator hunting and I love you know that's something that I've started to grow to love too as well of just going out and trying to go. You know, kill myself a predator, and you know, going out, squirrel hunting, like you said, like it's it's a lot, and you know it, kill myself a predator, and you know, going out, squirrel hunting, like you said, like it's it's a lot, and you know it's just something that we could take the time. And I'm a big massage guy, don't get me wrong. I love myself a good massage, me and the fiance.

Speaker 1: 1:35:55

We go get massages constantly.

Speaker 2: 1:36:05

I want to get before we get married we'll keep that, for maybe you know, when we have a little bit exactly but, um, guys, I mean I I think that's gonna, it's gonna wrap it up for for us tonight. Uh, I, I appreciate you guys. We'll definitely do another one before the season where we'll get the OGs like Dave and Chris on and those guys and get a pretty big one I think we can have up to. Do you remember how many people we can have on StreamYard?

Speaker 4: 1:36:42

Ten.

Speaker 2: 1:36:44

We can have ten and then two waiting in a backstage and that we could filter out. So you know, we definitely I think we'll get to the ten next time especially we didn't even have Peyton in here, we didn't have Steve in here and stuff like that. So you know we'll definitely get it going. But, guys, I appreciate any any last words from you guys I just want to say thanks for having me the first one.

Speaker 4: 1:37:13

This is my first time being on this round table, so I I just appreciate you being let me come on, and I look forward to the next one oh yeah, definitely the next time will be the big 10 people we're gonna we to make sure we get 10 people.

Speaker 2: 1:37:28

It's going to get a little wild. Make sure we have some. Oh damn, I don't think I'll be drinking at that time. Maybe I'll break it and I'll have a drink ready for that I'll just make it a very strong drink that night.

Speaker 5: 1:37:42

For me. I just want to say that it's nice to meet you guys. It was great. This is my first round table too, and I actually really liked it. It was fun. So it's nice to meet everyone. If I haven't followed you, I apologize. I will as soon as this ends. And to the listeners make sure you follow everybody. But the thing I'll tell the listeners is get out of the woods, man. Don't be the August pressure pressure. It's time now. The deer are going to be shifting in august. It's time to finish your shit up in the woods and get out. It's time to shoot. Get your gear prep, shoot from an elevated position, make sure your stuff is prepared and organized and clean, but get out of the woods. It's time to finish up and get out.

Speaker 2: 1:38:23

Um mike, thank you, sir, appreciate it I appreciate all you guys for for coming on. Um ethan, it is good to have you back happy to be back um, you know, and you guys will definitely be on for the next one, and you know it's almost go time. Boys, we're almost there let's get them and everyone for thank you for listening. I hope you guys enjoy this episode and we'll see you guys next time.