Speaker 2: 0:21

ready to elevate your hunting game? Check out gilly puck Puck, a US veteran-owned company from New York. The first-of-its-kind patent-pending product is built with the same pride and dedication we have for our country. Gilly Puck offers the Basic Puck Package, elite Hunt Package and Tier 1 Package, proudly made by those who served. Gillyilly puck is designed for hunters and nature enthusiasts who demand the best. Visit gillypuckcom today and use code gp10 for 10 off your odor gilly puck. Pride in our product, pride in our country hunting just got tactical. Welcome back to the garden state outdoors and podcast presented by boondocks hunting. I'm your host, mike Nitrang, I'm.

Speaker 4: 1:13

Peyton Smith, I'm Frank Mastica, and today we have.

Speaker 2: 1:15

Autumn McEntee. Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me Now give the give the listeners a little bit of a backstory on. You know, how you got into the outdoors. You know some of the things that you you know how you got into the outdoors. You know some of the things that you, you know. Tell them about yourself a little bit and a quick rundown.

Speaker 4: 1:28

So I have been immersed in the outdoors since I was three. I started trout fishing and hunting with my dad and when I was eight I started trapping with my dad. Just, he's been really the pillar for all of my outdoor interests. Recently, a couple of years ago, I started to get more into bird hunting. Turkey hunting is one of my big passions. Um, I was a competitive turkey caller. I love to waterfowl hunt. I love the beaver trap. I love to spend time on the water bass fishing, wade fishing, kayak fishing. I pretty much have done or do it all.

Speaker 2: 2:04

So it's it's, you know that's, and it's it's turkey season right now and I wasn't really I wasn't really expecting to to like start off with that route, but since it's turkey season, we're doing our turkey talk segment. Uh, you know, segment segment. Wow, I guess we might as well put this in the Turkey Talk segment as well, because I think tra to trap and also just burning, subscribe, burning and things like that. But for you, have you, have you noticed anything on the turkey population in areas that you trap? How does it really help, like what? What does it look like prior and then after?

Speaker 4: 3:07

really help. Like what? What does it look like prior and then after? Absolutely so. Um, one of the properties that I trapped ever since I was ever since I was really little, uh, with my dad it was actually. It's actually like a domestic turkey farm, like all the birds that you eat at Thanksgiving, but, um, we trapped there for probably six years before we saw a difference. But, uh, the year before, 10 raccoons off that farm in like three weeks, and then, um the next year, we saw a flock of 25 turkeys in the fall on that property and the landowner said that it was the first time he's ever seen wild turkeys on his property and he owns quite a bit of land.

Speaker 4: 3:42

So wow that's awesome.

Speaker 3: 3:46

That's a big difference yeah, no but is it mostly raccoons that you're pulling off of there? Is it like possums and fox, or is that what you mostly see that you pull off of that property?

Speaker 4: 3:59

um. Mostly I've trapped muskrat, mink um and possums and coons off that property. There is some coyote and fox time, but not not an overwhelming amount, um, but but typically, typically we'll pull 10 or 11 coons off the property somewhere between there um every year. Last year was was pretty dead, I think we only took five, but still is the lower number.

Speaker 2: 4:25

Could that because of trapping and maybe you know the, I know they have, you know big litters, or whatever the case is. But like, do you think this is finally like all right, the hard work of of trapping and everything is starting to pay off? Or maybe this is going to be the new norm or it's just an off?

Speaker 4: 4:43

I think it's just an off year. I know there are a couple of coon hunters that hunt the properties that surround the farm that I trap and they always get in before me because I don't set any traps until after Thanksgiving and for hunting season comes in in the middle of October. So those coon hunters are getting to them before I even have a chance, to which I believe that contributes a little bit more. But it can also be like a balancing out of the population in the area because raccoons during that time of year they're pretty nomadic because they're approaching their mating season so they do a lot of moving around. Raccoons don't really have like a solid home.

Speaker 3: 5:24

When is the raccoon rut? Uh I have no idea late december, early january very cool.

Speaker 3: 5:33

Yeah, I had no idea. So what is what's your set look like for when you're? I've seen the hand traps where people have the marshmallow down. And because this is something that I keep telling, like my dad, you know on the property that we hunt turkeys, that and there's so many raccoons you know over on like the feeder, and he's got pictures of them hanging off the feeder underneath and like doing the monkey bars on the feeder. I was like every day I was like you have to start running some traps and you know you're worried about dogs getting in them. But I was was talking about these like those marshmallow traps where they kind of it's like a handhold. I don't know if that's what you use.

Speaker 4: 6:07

Yeah, yes, that's, that's the majority of what I use. I love dog proof traps especially and they're they're especially convenient for when you have a landowner who's worried about their dog or their cat whatever getting in the trap, because it's pretty much impossible unless they stick their tongue in it, and even then it it's really hard to set it off without having collusible fingers. I've had people say that they've caught feral cats in them. I've personally never caught a cat in them. I've caught skunks, possums and raccoons in them and that is it, because they have the fingers that they can move.

Speaker 4: 6:39

And the way the dog-proof trap works is there's the mechanism down inside the cylinder so they have to physically reach in and grab onto that trigger. Most traps set off on a pull mechanism, so they have to be able to grab that and pull on it. Some traps are a push pull mechanism, so if you stick your hand in and you push on it, you know that could be how you catch cats sometimes, because they can't really grab and pull on things. But it's a really convenient trap for landowners that might be hesitant and it's also great for raccoons because it it eliminates some of your non-target animals yeah but yeah I mean that's a lot.

Speaker 3: 7:15

I'd imagine the the feral cats might put a beating on the turkey poults as well. Yeah, that's a blessing in disguise.

Speaker 4: 7:25

That's. That is something feral cats are are they're big killers.

Speaker 2: 7:30

They're big killers oh yeah, they are.

Speaker 4: 7:32

And like like in Wisconsin, there are more feral cats per square mile than there are people.

Speaker 3: 7:37

Wow, I didn't know that.

Speaker 4: 7:39

I'm very passionate about feral cats. Actually, like every paper I wrote, my senior year of high school was on feral cats. I'm pretty sure my teachers thought I was nuts, but like it's insane, they kill millions of species annually. It's, it's, it's absolutely insane and nobody will do anything about that.

Speaker 3: 7:56

I live in, uh, I live in Jersey city right now and there's a huge, oh my God, a huge oh my god, you got so many. I mean I've got like five. I could probably look out my window and see two right now. Um and um, but you know, you see some of them they have the clipped ear from, like the spay and release. What's your opinion on that?

Speaker 4: 8:15

I've heard mixed things I don't agree because even it, even though they can't have any more kittens, they can still do like existential damage, like even if, even if a feral cat would say, attack a morning dove on the bird feeder, even if they just, even if they just bite or scratch whatever they're attacking there, they have bacteria and and toxins in their saliva that will kill the bird or the squirrel or whatever. Even if they don't get a hold of it, it'll, it'll wander off and die like that's.

Speaker 3: 8:47

That's absolutely insane yeah, yeah, I guess I've heard it like um cal from meat eater cal's week in review. I've heard him describe it as that. The problem is is they're not mating the native species to death, they're uh, right they're killing them. So just because they're spayed, just this doesn't mean they're not killing anymore. So exactly, yeah and um, I'm not, uh, super sold on it either, which has been a point of contention between me and and, uh, some members of my family in the veterinary community yeah, well like.

Speaker 4: 9:23

What I don't understand is people can people can feed these feral cats and say they're theirs, okay, but say you, you know you're not allowed to leave your dog outside if it's below 32 degrees. Why are these people on to leave their, their cats outside? Oh yeah, that's, that's got to be like oh, I believe it.

Speaker 3: 9:42

I mean every time I start my truck to go to work in the morning. That scared two of them out of my wheel.

Speaker 2: 9:46

Well so you want to hear something? Yeah, my feral cat is no longer. He comes inside and he sleeps inside.

Speaker 2: 9:55

But, he is becoming like a house cat who just every night, almost every night, he comes inside and this is my mom, such an animal person that it's like there's, but I see there's a dead bird just sitting like outside of the backyard from him, yeah, I've seen him kill everything and me being a hunter. Like I'm just like cool, we're bonding. Like I sit there and I watch, I'm just like yeah, but like the thing is, there is a a bad side to it, because you know it does have a negative aspect for, like turkey population or you know, say it's an endangered species or something like that. Like that, that's where it's like OK, where, where is, where's the point where we have to start doing something like Wisconsin, like that's like OK, if there's that many there, there has to. That's a management problem and we need to figure out how we can handle this problem.

Speaker 4: 10:55

Yeah, and they. They put a real hurt on on baby birds because for the first couple of days after they fledged from the nest they can't go anywhere. So if a cat gets a hold of them they're done, and then all that work that that mama bird put in is gone yeah, yeah, I can vouch for that, my, my cat.

Speaker 2: 11:12

He's uh tara towards the blue jays. Um, now, real quick, back on the raccoons. You know you've got yourself some pretty big coons. What, what, what are some of the biggest raccoons that you, that you've caught?

Speaker 4: 11:28

So my biggest, I can actually go get him. He's on my wall, be right back.

Speaker 2: 11:33

Yes, okay.

Speaker 3: 11:35

Let's see, there we go I have no frame of reference for what is or is not a big raccoon other than you know. You look at them.

Speaker 2: 11:45

Everything seems big to me in jersey and I don't know if this is just like a, because they're off the dumpsters and like they're eating good where we are, like I don't. Is there a difference also between you know, if you find one out, and you know the delaro water gap versus, you know, jersey city? Jersey city has endless amount of junk food and burgers and like trash to go through. Does that like and that could be, you know, maybe you should ask your girlfriend about that? Do you think your girlfriend would know?

Speaker 3: 12:10

that, uh no, she doesn't really meddle into the meso predator world. She'll tell you about the feral cats. I will say that I used to have a lot of skunks until my neighbor started feeding the feral cats and it seems like they kind of pushed the skunks out all right, let's see this.

Speaker 4: 12:30

Um, this is three toes. He'd been caught before. Um he was 26 pounds, wow, yeah he was 26 pounds yeah, that is a yeah he got caught in one of those, those the dog proof traps, and he wore.

Speaker 4: 12:50

He wore um a trench in the ground like I have never seen a raccoon do that before like he. He I don't know how long he was there but he put in some work because he was, he was bound to and only coons that are there, you know 25 plus pound coons. That's a big raccoon. So he, uh, he bent some. He bent some chain links and stuff and some j hooks on the on the chain kyle, one of our buddies.

Speaker 2: 13:16

He shot what a 26 and a half pound turkey is a raccoon would be devastating to even a, a full grown turkey, like a hen would just, and you know, during the time where you know they're on the ground, it's like no wonder why the population of turkeys are being hit so, so damn hard. Like that's a big raccoon and I imagine that's what you've gotten, what I.

Speaker 3: 13:49

Let's look up what's the biggest raccoon ever caught now I've encountered an issue with raccoons for whatever reason.

Speaker 3: 13:59

I don't know why this keeps happening to me, but it happens with a lot of things where I've actually had, like I was early season deer hunting this year and then it was another year, I was turkey hunting and I've actually had them come up to me and, um, just like try to crawl, like I don't know if they were being nasty, but I was throwing sticks at it and stomping and trying to get it to go away. And I've had multiple times where raccoons were just on coming at me on a beeline and they were big ones. Well, one time it was a group of them where I like to like attacked by raccoons and uh, you know like, you know, like I have, mike, seen the video of the one where it's at I don't know five steps and I'm I just hit it in the head with a stick and it just keeps coming and I don't know. I don't know if that's something you've encountered or if you would know what that would be, but it seems like they don't like me very much I have not.

Speaker 4: 14:57

But if it's a group, um, that's mom and babies. So yeah, if you find, if you, if there's a group of raccoons, that's mom and babies.

Speaker 2: 15:05

So time to get away?

Speaker 3: 15:07

I don't know what you did to the raccoons to make them not like you no, I don't know what it was either, um it was me and my buddy and we were turkey hunting in maryland and uh, it was like this sound god awful sound and this ticket behind me and we turn around and there was this ditch with this property line with water in it and uh, they were. They were like three or four, like full-size ones, and we're trying to crawl up and we're throwing rocks at them and yeah, those are babies, well grown babies.

Speaker 4: 15:34

But a fun fact about raccoon sounds um gray tree frogs actually sound a lot like baby raccoons oh yeah that is a what.

Speaker 2: 15:48

What other facts before we go to the biggest wreck? We never. What other interesting facts do you know? Um a wide question listen any, okay, um, let's see how do we narrow it um when it come. Man, I don't even know what I know like I know what you're trying to ask.

Speaker 3: 16:11

Like I have encountered, like I have a crude of knowledge of like bears that a lot of people don't know right. So like things that I would know about bears is like how many calories they eat a day, but like what would the average person, I guess, not know about trapping and raccoons and some of these meso predators that you think that that's a good one?

Speaker 3: 16:28

that's a good one um you've accrued based off your intimate knowledge of them, and hunting them and trapping them is that's how you accrue the most intimate knowledge and appreciation for them right.

Speaker 4: 16:40

um, probably the one thing that I would tell people is that, um, I don't know as much as as much as people, as much as people say that that it's the, it's the, the predators having the impact on the turkeys, I would, I would go as far as to say that it's more, way more habitat than it is anything like because you'll always have, yeah, habitat first, always, and then predators, um, but I don't know. Can we come back to that?

Speaker 2: 17:15

I'll think about it yes, we could, we could, we could definitely come back to that, um, but, uh. But the biggest let's see was in 2007 in Idaho 51 pounds.

Speaker 4: 17:32

That's a really, really big Like South Dakota. You'll get raccoons that are as big as coyotes out there.

Speaker 1: 17:38

Really.

Speaker 4: 17:40

I've seen. Well, western coyotes are a lot smaller than our Eastern coyotes. But I've seen tailgate pictures from South Dakota of a lot smaller than our eastern coyotes. But I've seen tailgate pictures from south dakota of a raccoon next to a coyote and the and the raccoon is bigger than the coyote really so we have bigger coyotes out here than they do.

Speaker 2: 17:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, oh yeah we have big oats, really big, big coyotes, like they're huge um, wow, I didn't know what is the size difference like.

Speaker 3: 18:06

How much bigger? Like 20? Are we talking like 70 pounds?

Speaker 4: 18:09

I've heard them out to 70 pounds here yeah, they don't get much bigger than 25 pounds out west, because it's really yeah, they don't. And their, their coat is here, but it's. It's not as full as our eastern coyotes. And our eastern coyotes come in a lot of different color phases, like the blonde, the red, the black, the western coyote, that's. That's the most desirable fur for making a garment because it's very, um, it's very what's the word I'm looking for? It's. It's very like the. The quality is pretty much the same.

Speaker 3: 18:48

Like when you're making a fur garment, like they're all the same, so you get like a continuous kind of Right Okay.

Speaker 4: 18:52

Right, yeah, so like, probably a fun fact is they use ranch mink for making fur coats because ranch mink the fur, they use the strip of the fur from the neck to the butt, and on a ranch mink the fur is all the strip of the fur from the neck to the butt, and on a ranch mink the fur is all the same length. But on a wild mink the fur differs in length, so it makes it more difficult to make a coat that's uniform with wild mink yeah I think that's fun fact number three I've con.

Speaker 2: 19:18

I've started a counter.

Speaker 3: 19:22

I love this that makes sense you think of like gray squirrels, like every gray squirrel looks the same. They're the same color, but yeah, I have noticed it's like coyotes out here can.

Speaker 2: 19:31

Can definitely vary a lot in uh colors you don't know what you're getting over here like it's. That's why, and as as much as I don't find an excuse but there are yotes that do look like german shepherds, like it's very because of just the different colors that that we have here where out in. You know, I've seen even arizona like yotes out in arizona. They're just, they don't look like dogs that you could tell that they're legit coyotes because they look more mangy out there to me, like because we're so used to seeing this full, beautiful coat that is so thick and they're, I mean, they're eating good here, you know they're. They have tons of food, tons of water. Like you know, it seems like they're. They're not, they're not struggling to survive. That's what I'm kind of, you know, getting at, so like it's just a night and day difference, which is very surprising, because these yotes, I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if someone eventually shoots one that's over 100 pounds or traps one over 100 pounds yeah, some people.

Speaker 4: 20:36

Some people think they're like bred with, like wolves or whatever. I don't know.

Speaker 2: 20:43

I don't know I've heard that too. Yeah, but it would. I've heard the reason why people think that is because where that actual population is I think it was more like midwest and they've just started moving east, just because when it comes to territory you look at like mountain lions too as well. Um, you know, they just have such a big territory and they're only going to eventually be pushed out. So that's my like. I don't know, I'm not a biologist. I can't really say, hey, is this actually true, is this actually facts? But like it would make sense to me, but yeah, I don't know. The bigger, the bigger they get, though I can be like you got it right there. Yep, that's. You tell me that's a wolf, coyote, uh, hybrid.

Speaker 4: 21:36

I would 100, believe you, just because on the sheer size yeah, are any of you guys a member of the mountain lions in Pennsylvania Facebook group?

Speaker 2: 21:45

No, no, no.

Speaker 4: 21:48

It's comical, absolutely comical.

Speaker 2: 21:50

What, so what's your belief on that? What, what do?

Speaker 4: 21:52

you believe on that. I think there probably definitely are. Like okay, fun fact. Number four there are actually four counts of badgers being cited at Pennsylvania, like we don't have bad. We technically we have badgers because they've been cited here, but why most people, if you could ask we don't have badgers, why don't we have mountain lions?

Speaker 2: 22:12

oh, very interesting yeah, yeah first of all, I didn't even know that. I haven't even heard anyone bring up a badger, and ever, I think, on this podcast. That's first of all.

Speaker 4: 22:22

I love badgers, so um, we'll.

Speaker 2: 22:25

We'll get to the badger talk in a second, because I'm pretty interested about that too as as well, but I believe it. It makes so much sense. There's so much. First of all, land and territory. From in pa, I've heard so many stories. I've even heard of stories of of them in new jersey, and I forget who we were just talking to on a podcast, but we literally talked about how maybe there isn't a, a breeding pair in our area, but they could easily be coming through here and they could be in their territory. Maybe it's just on the edge of their territory, which means they would be here every once in a while. But who's to say there isn't a mountain Like? Look at how big PA is, look at like it's a huge state which borders, areas that are known for having mountain lines.

Speaker 3: 23:17

Continuous sighting of one in Connecticut that got hit by a car.

Speaker 2: 23:21

Ooh, connecticut's. Ah See, Connecticut is more of a state where it's like you know, right there probably was maybe one traveling through got hit by a car, that's that's pretty believable.

Speaker 3: 23:35

2006 was hit by a car okay, so that's but that would be more of a that'd be more of a pair.

Speaker 2: 23:43

That's that's of a pair. That's that's a cat that's not breeding there. That's not its main home population. That's, you know, that could have been a, I don't know, it was a hundred. I know 140 pounds is big, but is that big for a mountain lion? So would that be like a juvenile, would that be like a teen?

Speaker 4: 24:00

You, you would kind of say so I think there's also like like the options always there, that like somebody bought one and raised it and then let it go especially in pi especially no, because I okay, I used to work in landscaping and we used to. There was this like like super rich dude and he had a wolf, yeah, like one of those giant wolf dogs. It was white and it was terrifying. This thing was huge, but like who's to say that some rich person didn't go upon themselves to buy a mountain lion and raise it and then let it go?

Speaker 2: 24:33

no, I agree with you. Well, listen, pa, you could buy almost anything at the uh, what is the? The reptile expo like? I've gone a couple times. I got alligators, venomous snakes, snapping turtles, like they have everything available to you and you know it's. It's just one of those things where it's like, just from us being in Jersey like you know, frank and I were you were born and raised in Jersey, you know, peyton, you know moved here and everything like that but if it's illegal in New Jersey, you can get it in PA, and that's always like, that's always been a thing like oh man, of course in Jersey we can't have this. Oh, look at this, there's, there's a expo going on in PA. Ok, we could just, we could just go up there, you know. So I've heard a lot of crazy stories about people in PA owning a whole bunch of exotic animals and stuff like that too as well.

Speaker 2: 25:25

Oh yeah um, so the badgers? What? What is it about badger? What do you like so much about badgers? And you know how you you said so. Go again about what you said about them being in pa. Like there's been reports that they've been in pa. What? What? What's that that about?

Speaker 4: 25:47

so there have been four recorded sightings of badgers in pennsylvania, none recently. But I like badgers because, well, well, like, from a trapping aspect, you can trap them out West and I just think it would be really cool to be able to trap one without having to go out West, because they're kind of like the Wolverine's little cousin and they have super long claws, which would be insanely cool to like skin the feet out on one and then tan it. I actually just got my fisher back from the tanner and we scum the feet out, so the claws are still on it. Just super cool but. And their coats are beautiful. So, yeah, I just think they're really cool. But like that, like in my head, I'm like OK, what? What if I? What if I'm in the turkey woods at like three o'clock in the morning and I look over and there's a badger? What am I going to do? I'm more worried about badgers than I am about rattlesnakes.

Speaker 2: 26:41

Oh Jesus, that's another thing that I definitely got to get into with you as well. Know, if you did trap one, right, what, what? What do you even do? Because you're not really prepared to walk up on one of your traps and there to be a badger and I know how feisty, like, yes, raccoons can be very feisty, and everything like that, and you, you know, you guys have bobcats and you know everything like that. But the the reputation behind the badger, too, is just like it is some serious business and you know you would have. Would you, would you have to release it? Or is that something where?

Speaker 2: 27:20

because it's not a game, because it's a yeah, because it's not a game animal MPA. I imagine it's better case. You just call and be like hey, what can I do here? Can I take this animal?

Speaker 4: 27:38

Yeah, essentially like that's that's how I read the law and understand it. Like, um, I would definitely call. I'm pretty good friends with a furbearer biologist so I could. I could call him um on the weekend and say, hey, there's a, there's a badger in my trap, um, but yeah, I don't think I would be prepared first. Like out west they use these much bigger traps, like beaver size traps, to catch badgers, bridger number fives, which which way exceed a six and a half inch jaw spread that we can use here. Um, but you need a, you need a big, strong trap and um, and if I caught a badger in one of my fox sets, I don't know if it would be there the next day because I'm not prepared to catch a badger.

Speaker 3: 28:21

What does your trapping season look like? You said you put them in after Thanksgiving and then do you target things as you change kind of walk. Could you walk through kind of what your season looks like, from like start to finish, what you're targeting, what you're set, what your sets look like, where you're going?

Speaker 4: 28:39

yeah, so um, uh, I've usually after thanksgiving I'll put out my my raccoon traps and my fox traps and make a muskrat when it comes in. And then around they just. They just moved the opener of beaver from the day after Christmas to like the second weekend of December, so that is very beneficial, because I used to get yelled at for going beaver trap.

Speaker 4: 29:10

But yeah, get yelled at for going beaver trap after christmas, but um, yeah, so, uh, usually I'll trap on the land until then, and then the last couple years I've had the opportunity to trap on the river for beavers and so I'll usually pull my land stuff and switch to just trapping on the river for a little bit. But a couple years ago I had, I think, four days to trap on the river and we caught five beavers. And then I set some additional traps on the islands and I caught a coon and a muskrat and I thought it was pretty funny that I caught a raccoon out in the middle of the river because he had to swim a pretty far ways to get out there. But, um, yeah, then this past december, um, we trapped up on the river in sunbury, pennsylvania, and we caught I think we caught seven in three days up there yep, seven beavers and the biggest one was almost 70 pounds.

Speaker 3: 30:12

Wow.

Speaker 4: 30:13

But overall last year, yeah, and I caught my fisher last year, my first fisher. I didn't catch a bobcat, I tried, but they just actually introduced that the management unit above me we can trap river otters in, so that's a big step. That's pretty cool, yes, yes, and something else. That's something else that I'm cautioned, cautious about. What I'm trapping beavers is the otters. Any otter sign I won't set near otter sign because you can't trap them really where I trap. So and otters and beavers will occasionally use the same trails to get off of the islands into the water and stuff, and I would. I would be devastated if I if I accidentally caught an otter um in one of my conibear traps.

Speaker 3: 31:02

So I try to be very careful with that too so you say you're putting out you caught seven beavers in three days. How many traps are you putting out? Are you catching multiple in the same set, like kind of what's your success rate looking like?

Speaker 4: 31:22

So it depends on how many people are trapping and what the limit is in that management unit the unit we were trapping in, I believe the unit, the limit was 10 and you can, you can set you can only set two conibear traps when you're when you're trapping for beavers, just because you don't want to, if you set 10 and you can only catch, and that's not good. But, um, I only ever set two conner bears usually and I'll try to. It's, setting beaver traps is quite a bit of work so I try my best to to minimize my sets and maximize the quality of my set and maximize the quality of the location, if I can find it, fresh slides, fresh caster mounds. Um, this past year I made a pretty good set on a caster mound and I had a beaver not the next day but the day after. Um, but some, some of the really old sign we set this past year was where we caught them on the first night and then beavers will live in groups, kind of. So, um, the parents both parents work to raise the young and then, um, when they have a new litter the next year, then the, the second year babies or the first year babies will leave and disperse and go out and establish their own territory so that the mom, dad can raise the younger ones. But uh, so but. So changing location in a smaller sort of realm was the key to catching more beavers for us, because after the second day we set two more footholds in some islands that were adjacent, probably a mile down the river from where we had caught the original beavers. So switching stuff up, like that can be, can be really beneficial because you know, if you know how the beavers live and how they act, and say you catch three beavers off one island, well you're not, probably not going to catch another beaver off that island the next day, because they're probably all gone and it's also important to leave some for seed.

Speaker 4: 33:31

Um and conibear traps are my favorite because they're they're quick and humane and I don't have to deal with a live angry beaver when I get to my traps. And but um, you can, sort of. The only downside to conibear traps is that you cannot. There's there's really no good, solid way to discriminate between the size of the beavers that you catch.

Speaker 4: 33:55

Um, but like, if you're using a foothold trap, you can dig your bed deeper or you can move your foothold trap back farther, because, so, when you set a foothold trap for a beaver, you kind of want to make a shelf up against the bank.

Speaker 4: 34:07

That's like right under the water, because when the beaver's belly hits the bank they put their back feet down and you want to catch them by the back foot. So if you dig that shelf deeper and your trap is farther back, you're, you're, you're trying to catch a larger beaver, because the distance between the the front of the chest and the back feet is longer than it is on a small beaver. Um, and and if you, if you were to like catch them by the belly or something, they can get out really easy, because it's just their belly fur that would be that would be in it. So, um, foothold traps are a really beneficial way if you're trapping, where you know there's multiple sizes of beavers, to be able to discriminate so that you don't take the younger ones, because one they're not, really they're not worth as much money.

Speaker 3: 34:52

And two it's it's best to leave them for seed. What is, uh, what does a beaver go for? You said you call it a 70 pound beaver. What's the price looking like on a 70 pound beaver?

Speaker 4: 34:59

um. So it depends on how you sell them. Currently they um. Currently they are buying for the hatter market, which you uh, you are paid by the pound. So it all depends on how much your beaver weighs, um. But my boyfriend and I actually we just took all of our beavers to sell um and he we averaged probably about 32 a beaver and he had 15 beavers, so he made like 500 off the beavers I have. Yeah, yes, and and I I did we, because I was there, but he caught the bigger beaver. I did not catch the bigger beaver and I know he's gonna watch this and he's gonna say you didn't catch the 70 pound beaver. So I have to clarify half of remove now yeah, real quick.

Speaker 3: 35:47

There's a lot of ways to do stuff like that. Um, in maryland I know that, just a plug go catch those blue cats. You can get, like I think, $30 a blue cat head during certain days in certain rivers, because they want those blue cats out, they eat the crabs. So got to get rid of the blue cats.

Speaker 2: 36:05

Now I know that you know the fur price market is down and you know that's been a huge thing for years, being someone who's looking at the outside. Is it is beavers worth more or, like you know, is that why? Because, listen, I know fit, you know, of course, depending on the weight, $500 is that's not, that's, that's not bad at all, that's a pretty nice. Uh, I would take dollars for for some some beaver if I start. You know, trapping everything like that Is that only with beaver is like raccoon, fox, coyotes. Is that? Is that different? They're also not wearing weighing nearly the same amount. Also, unless you're, you're trapping a big coyote.

Speaker 4: 36:50

Right out. Also, unless you're you're trapping a big coyote right. So so for for um, selling by weight, they um, they'll really only use that kind of scale to sell for for what's called the market, which, um, typically you're only selling beaver to the hatter market because they make those like like, kind of like russian style, the beaver hats, um, cause that's what they want. But normally you're selling by size and the fur buyers have a specific scale. There's actually like a yardstick that they make that has, like, um, all the inches and it tells you how, like, how many inches it is for like a, a small medium, an XL, double XL, triple XL raccoon. Then they'll price based on what you give them. But so when a fur buyer goes to buy fur, they they have like a client who has or is buying or is requesting specific things. So like, like I said before about about like things being uniform so that you can make something that looks pretty identical. It's a little bit more difficult in raccoons, because this raccoon is very brown this is what they would consider like a cinnamon raccoon, but this raccoon is pretty silver on the side. So if you put these two raccoons in a garment next to each other, that's not going to look very good. So, um, if the fur buyer is sent to buy certain color phases of things, or if they're sent to buy certain sizes, um, that can change the price, um, and what they give you for or what they offer you to give, that they don't really want your fur but they think they might be able to use it. They might be, they might give it, give you less money for it, um, and fur buyers will grade your fur so the fur is always side out, so the tan side out, and um, this here is what's called your inspection window, which is your fur. Buyers can look at this when the pelt's inside out, because they'll be able to see this chunk of back fur through that inspection window when it's inside out, and so they'll be able to see and they'll be able to feel how prime it is, which is why I don't set any traps before Thanksgiving, because fur doesn't turn prime until then, and if your fur isn't prime and doesn't have these nice long guard hairs on it, it's not going to go for as much.

Speaker 4: 39:13

Um, also, some people there are different ways to put up your fur, and how nicely it's put up is probably also going to depend on how much you make. Like, um, people that put their fur up on wire, I don't, in my personal opinion. I don't think it looks as nice as fur that's put up on wood stretchers. I think wood stretchers make a nicer pelt like this was put up on wood stretchers. I think wood stretchers make a nicer pelt Like this was put up on wood and I think it's very uniform. It's very nicely shaped, the head's pretty nicely shaped, and it's a lot about how you take care of your fur.

Speaker 4: 39:41

Some furs can mold during the drying process. If you put holes in it, you'll get less Like. If there's any giant holes in this back strip here, which is what they'll use for garments, you're going to get less money for it. So it's not a whole lot about that. They don't really want to buy your fur.

Speaker 4: 39:57

It's a lot about how people take care of their fur and how people present their fur. I know a lot of people who will set traps on the first night of this and then they did their. Their fur is not prime, their fur is thin and their fur is not primed. Their fur is thin and they're not going to get as much money for it as they would have if they had waited just that extra month to let the coons get primed.

Speaker 4: 40:20

Because there's a term called a blue coon, which if you catch any coons in October or November they're going to be blue, which when you skin them and you turn them inside out, their skin is literally blue. When it dries it is a dark navy blue, almost purple, is literally blue when it dries it is. It is a dark navy blue, almost purple. But if you get a prime coon in december and january their skin is pearly white. When you turn it out inside out and dry it, pearly white, beautiful. But blue coons don't go for as much because usually they're smaller, the fur is more spindly, it's thinner and it doesn't make a good quality garment. So the way that you present your fur like the.

Speaker 4: 40:51

The kind of fur that you are selling can really is going to depend on what you get paid for that fur, like how it's stretched, like if you stretch the. So the size of your pelt is measured from the tip of the nose down to the side here it's not measured down to the tip of the tail, so that that'll tell you how, um, that'll tell the fur bar what size your pelt is. So, if you can, the farther you stretch it, the more money you get. That's why I like wood stretchers a lot, because you use push pins to hold. So this would be the legs. You use push pins to hold the legs down, and the farther down you can get those legs, the farther down you can get what would be like kind of like the hip area, and that can add some length to your fur and make it more appealing to the fur buyer too.

Speaker 2: 41:39

Wow, that's very cool. That's a lot goes into it. That is a lot.

Speaker 3: 41:44

That's pretty cool. How would you, I guess, would beavers be the most expensive, like what's kind of the breakdown on, like most to least kind of expensive animals that you kind of look to trap?

Speaker 2: 41:57

So wait before you, before you answer this. Anyone got to get do like Frank's pay. And do you guys have a guess what would be the most expensive to the to the least?

Speaker 3: 42:08

Oh, all right, I like that. All right, frank, you want to go first. Oh, put the all the pressure on Frank. Oh, all right, I like that. All right, frank, you want to go first.

Speaker 2: 42:13

Oh, put all the pressure on.

Speaker 1: 42:14

Frank, it's all good.

Speaker 2: 42:19

I don't even know. I'm trying to look at what's the least desirable.

Speaker 1: 42:24

I was going to go with the otter.

Speaker 3: 42:26

I'm going to guess otter would be the most and I'd probably say I don't know. I'd probably say muskrat would probably be close to the cheaper side, Maybe raccoon.

Speaker 1: 42:39

I was going to go with mink, but I'm not sure I was thinking mink too.

Speaker 3: 42:44

I mean, maybe those fisher cats would be really expensive because you don't get a lot of them. But I don't know, maybe there's not enough to be. I'm going to say otter and muskrat, otter being the most expensive, I'm gonna lock that in I'm gonna go beaver.

Speaker 2: 42:57

I'm gonna stick with beaver. First of all, I felt beaver fur and this guy at one of the shows, uh, they do the jersey trapping and they had everything there and they had a, a vest made of beaver and I want it for my wedding, right? So I, I, I want this thing. Bianca said no, she shut me down, but I'm gonna keep working on it. I am going to get myself a nice little vest made out of beaver, if I can. Um, so I'm gonna go with beaver. I'm gonna stick with beaver too. I would go with muskrat too as well. Something small. I was going to go with beaver. I'm going to stick with beaver too. I would go with muskrat too as well.

Speaker 1: 43:33

Something small I was going to go with definitely the otter and the mink, what I was thinking all right.

Speaker 4: 43:42

So the otter is. I'm actually. I'm actually going to give you guys actual statistics. I'm looking at, um the fur sale results from this year. Oh boy, for two different fur sales the otter went for well, the otter was the second most expensive. It went one otter. The average was 40 for an otter this past year. Um, the most expensive was the bobcat, the average was 45.

Speaker 3: 44:07

Oh yeah damn, that was yeah that's now the cheapest $45.

Speaker 2: 44:10

Oh I should have said that Damn.

Speaker 4: 44:14

Yeah, that's Now the cheapest. The least expensive at one sale was the opossum, the average being $2. And at another sale it was female mink, the average being $2.

Speaker 4: 44:27

Alright, frank wins Like they had a fur sale in District 10 in january this year of last year and like, like, the price can differ so much, like for for red foxes. The high price was nine dollars and 75 cents and the low price was five dollars. So you can be walking out of there with almost ten dollars for a red fox or five dollars for a red fox. It just it all depends on the quality, depends on where you trap them, what color phase they are what would you do with a possum fur?

Speaker 1: 45:01

to me what would you do?

Speaker 2: 45:03

with a possum hold on that's gonna show us um that, listen, I I'm getting more intrigued, like about trapping, as like, the more and more that we go on like yeah, I've been.

Speaker 3: 45:17

I used to want to trap in high school and I just never got around to it mike.

Speaker 2: 45:21

Um, they just got their trapping course done and completed, so they'll be trapping this year. So I think trapping is the next thing on my agenda so this is, this is this is my teddy bear.

Speaker 4: 45:31

I had it made out of pasta. The face is possum fur, the paws are possum fur, um, and the body is red fox. But possum fur is very sought after. It's very, very soft. It's really soft. Possums are one of the softest fur bears ever. So, um, yeah, that's.

Speaker 2: 45:47

I had this made out of a red fox, two red foxes and, um, two possums but now yeah real quick on the possums, because I'm really you don't see them nearly as much as you do. You know, and I've heard so many different things, like you know, of course, obviously everything needs to be balanced and everything there has to be you know management, but would does it just go off of your area where you live? Like, if you're not? Like, how do they dictate what you can trap and stuff like, I imagine the same thing what you can hunt and everything like that.

Speaker 2: 46:23

But for, like me, I I don't really very rarely ever see possums, ever. But also I'm also not driving out in the middle of the night anymore like I used to. I'm usually sleeping now. So, like what, what is that? Like? How do how do you get that? Like, do you, are you picking? Sometimes, if you catch one in your trap, is it automatic? Like all right, I'm going to pull this for the fair, or does size go into? Does the the number of possums that you've seen through you know, know the year or whatever? Is that something also that goes into what you're going to trap for the season?

Speaker 4: 46:57

Absolutely so. Like right now, I'm seeing more possums than ever, but they're dead on the road because it's possum baby season, so they're moving a lot. I've seen more possums dead on the road now than I've probably ever caught, and I've caught a lot of possums, so that plays a lot into the factor the size. I would never, ever skin a little. I've caught little possums. Caught little little possums. I would never, I mean unless there was some injury to them that they wouldn't be able to return. But usually I'll only take the largest possums, the nicest possums I've actually. I hate to keep getting up, but I've actually trapped a black possum once.

Speaker 3: 47:43

Oh, let's see it yeah definitely want to see that.

Speaker 2: 47:47

Oh man, trapping is so cool. Listen, next year, boys, boys, we're taking the trapping course. It's a two-day course. We, we got to take it. It. It seems so fun and like it's such a great management aspect. But getting into the fur aspect is so cool. I I hope they bring back for a while. See, that's cool, that's cool, that's beautiful.

Speaker 4: 48:07

Yeah, it's a really common down south, um, but like, like the underfur is completely white, like there's no, there's no black underfur, it's just all powder. But yeah, black possums are super cool and he that's, that's a pretty big possum like that, yeah, yeah yeah, I've seen.

Speaker 3: 48:25

The biggest possums I've ever seen were on my girlfriend's grandmother root grandmother's roof and I swear to god the thing was probably like 30 pounds. It was huge, it was a big one came out and then, I guess, a big male came out after that one I thought that one was huge and then this other one came out and just dwarfed it crawled out of another jingle, I mean the thing was easily like this big.

Speaker 3: 48:46

Oh, the females are bigger. Okay, so maybe this is a female. Came, came out. It was like this big, I swear yeah. Looked like a corgi.

Speaker 2: 48:53

We can count that as a fun fact, because none of us knew that.

Speaker 3: 48:59

I did know they were the only marsupial in North America.

Speaker 4: 49:03

Yes, they are Typically typically in mammals. The female is usually usually bigger because they have to do more yeah and marsupials are in in oh yeah, marsupials and and some mammals like yeah pretty cool, very cool what do you?

Speaker 3: 49:25

how do you make about, like, what are you looking for when you make a possum set? Because I've been in the woods and I've been, like, all right, here's a latrine log, I could make a raccoon set somewhere near here, just thinking about it, whatever, like here's a riverbank, there's all these raccoon tracks, whatever you put it, but I wouldn't know where to begin to make to know what it looks like so possums, like raccoons, are pretty nomadic.

Speaker 4: 49:50

They don't really have like a home that they stay at. So a lot of the time it's really hard to target possums because they kind of just do whatever they want with their lives and, um, you can, you could catch them in their neighbor's backyard or you could catch them way, way back in the woods. Um, but you would, you would want to set for as like a general rule for um most things you want to set on places that that they travel or anything travels a lot. Um pathways, um edges of fields are great, are great places to set. Possums and raccoons travel a lot of the same places the edges of creeks, because they eat a lot of the same stuff. The edges of creeks, because they eat a lot of the same stuff. But location is really important and you have to know how the animals in your area are using the location to be able to successfully catch something.

Speaker 4: 50:43

But I think it would be really difficult to specifically target a possum just because they're, they're very, they're very nomadic, um, but I mean they're not hard to catch at all, but they're, they're. They would be difficult to target, like some places I trap. I've never caught a possum, um, but if I don't catch any possums and I don't catch anything, I know I'm probably not going to catch anything, because if there's possums there, it's probably being used a lot, um, but animals will follow a lot of the same the same traffic routes, so to speak. So but yeah, it would be very hard to target a possum and possum poop fun fact it's green, um. So there's another fun fact what it's?

Speaker 2: 51:27

green yeah possum poop is green possum poop is green fun fact number six, and that is that might be the most like I can't even. Yeah, I gotta, I gotta, look this up like I don't think I've ever, I've never seen possum poop ever before.

Speaker 4: 51:49

No, yeah, possum poop is is usually, is usually green I got another fun fact for you.

Speaker 1: 51:55

So, uh-oh, possums and raccoons love pasta. Every time we go to new york state, my uncle would always put out a big plate of pasta. It was actually for the cats, but every time you turn the light off, turn it back on, all the time there was always a raccoon or there was a possum over there all the time. It was like they knew that we were coming too. It was crazy. You want to talk about some big, big possums and, uh, some big raccoons being imposter man where, where was it, where was this at?

Speaker 2: 52:29

this feels like a sit, this feels like a city like no, this was.

Speaker 1: 52:33

This was in new york state, on our oh, this was up yeah, yeah listen they'll, they'll eat anything.

Speaker 2: 52:41

I. I imagine, um, you know one more, and this isn't trapping related, but that you brought up rattlesnakes and the yes I don't, that's my.

Speaker 2: 52:53

One thing that always blows my mind about pa is hearing about rattlesnakes, timber, timber, rattlers. I know you know there are certain spots in new jersey that has them and you know upstate new york and everything like that. But I I saw some video of a guy who was in pa and I can't remember where he was, but the amount of rattlesnakes that I saw, like what, what is that like now, when you're, when you're doing anything in the woods or anything like that, and knowing that there's a venomous snake nearby, like or could be potentially nearby, I guess you live somewhere close to where, where they, where they're at.

Speaker 4: 53:29

So I've actually never seen one, but I have, um there's. There's a place, probably 25 minutes from my house, where people go rattlesnake hunting a lot and like they go to take pictures with them. Um, but I'm I'm cautious, but not overly, because a lot of places where I hunt I try to stay away from big rock outcroppings and stuff like that, where they would sort of congregate and also unrelated, I feel like a fiber. All of this possum poop that I'm looking at is Brown, but when it comes out, like when, like fresh possum poop, is green, I promise I have seen the possum pooping and it is green when it comes out, I promise.

Speaker 4: 54:10

I believe, believe you, I definitely do like, like they'll eat their dead brother off the road. So like it's gotta be gross like if you ever see if you ever see two dead possums on the road next to each other, one definitely died and the other one died trying to go eat it like jesus christ, that's crazy, um, that you know why that's.

Speaker 2: 54:37

Animals are just so unique. I love it. Like I just love how random and unique that you just never like there's just always going to be an unknown. Like you're always going to find something new. Like the fact that we've learned that their their poop, when they freshly poop, is green and that potentially, if you see multiple dead, that it's probably maybe because one was trying to eat the other after it was run over. But you know what that says. Turkeys, listen, turkeys do this, do some file shit too, because the minute something, not all the time but when you shoot them they just start jumping and beating the living crap out of the, the turkey that just got shot. So you know what I every, every time I tell someone who doesn't know hunting that is one of the facts that just blows their mind.

Speaker 3: 55:25

They're just like wait, what do you mean? I'm like they don't like it. Yeah, they take it personally. It, yeah, take it personally.

Speaker 2: 55:31

Yep, it's crazy.

Speaker 3: 55:34

Um, and it's very cool.

Speaker 2: 55:37

So I know, wait, oh, let me get to the questions wrote before I forget what what the guys have have asked Um, uh, give me one second. I just got to pull up the notes where they sent me the messages that. So we got here. No, we've got. So how your your bobcats? What? What is? How many have you caught a bobcat? How often do you catch? No, still not yet.

Speaker 2: 56:13

Not because I know, you said you didn't get one this this season, but that's just in total, you've never gotten one right, they just recently opened up the bobcat trapping season, um, so I have not yet caught one.

Speaker 2: 56:27

Wow, so beautiful animal. I mean, just every time you see one, it is just like magnificent, right it is. Is that, like, when you're talking about predators you know you, of course, you got your coyotes, your foxes, you know yourcats like, would the bobcat be at that top list? Like, when you come, when it comes down to traffic, you know, is that that one animal, when it comes to those big three, you know predators that you would want to catch? Or would it be a coyote or a gray fox? Like what, what would that that list look like of most desire?

Speaker 4: 57:05

just for like, hey, I was able to to catch this and they're very elusive so, um, I would want to catch a bobcat, because it's like you can only catch one, you only have one tag. Um, but for for the purpose of being like elusive and difficulty catch, I'd probably say a coyote.

Speaker 4: 57:28

Um, I've only ever caught one, so they're very they're very once you get the hang of, once people get the hang of it, they, they, they catch more, but you have to. You have to catch one, you have to catch like a couple to to then, like, understand what you're doing right okay kind of thing. So it's a process, it's like it's a.

Speaker 2: 57:48

It's a.

Speaker 4: 57:49

It's a big process and once you master it, it's like, okay, now it's easier okay, yes, so, and I think, like for conservation wise as well, like to catch one bobcat versus to be able to catch like 20 coyotes a season. I think you're doing more of a service to catch um, to catch those coyotes if you have that population in your area, versus just one bobcat um, but I would, I would definitely, and the the um bobcats will also, uh, take down a full-grown turkey if they can during the spring.

Speaker 4: 58:22

That's probably one of the biggest worries that cowboys have is is bobcats, because, um, they're obviously not paying attention to really anything else except for hens in the spring. So that's that's one of their biggest worries is is those larger predators, bobcats and coyotes and um and stuff that will that will take on a full-grown gobbler.

Speaker 2: 58:40

So yeah, makes sense. Makes sense. Um, for the pa trappers course, what is that like? Is here new jersey, a couple of my buddies, they just went through it. They had to do a two-day course. Is it kind of the same thing in PA? What does it take to get your trapper's license in PA?

Speaker 4: 58:58

So you only have to take your hunter trapper education course in Pennsylvania to get your fur taker's license. But then you can take a supplemental course about fur bears takers license. But then you can take a supplemental um course about fur bears and for the life of me I can't remember, or um, it's your successful fur takers course, which is just really like a supplemental. It dives deeper into trapping, because the hunter trapper education doesn't doesn't get super deep into the trapping aspect. It just kind of gives you like an overview. But um, after you take your successful fur takers course, that that gives you a lot more information about it. And it gives you some information about cable restraints. But in pennsylvania if you want to use capable restraints you have to take an additional cable restraint certification course to then be able to use cable restraints. But um, after you, after you take hunter trap red, umrap Red, then you can trap.

Speaker 2: 59:51

Would that be like with snares, like the cable restraint? Would that be like snares and everything? Okay, cool, because my buddy wanted to ask that In New Jersey they had to take a two-day course and he just wanted to know, like, why do they have to take the snare course if they're not going to be using snares? Um, so I guess in pa, if you want to use snares, you have to to take the extra course, if not, you don't, even you don't have to do it once you go, do your your safety thing and everything like that.

Speaker 4: 1:00:24

You're, you're good to go right, and I I don't want to misspeak I haven't taken my cable restraint certification, but in pennsylvania cables and snares are two different things and I don't know if the cable restraint also covers snares or if you can just use snares after I've never trapped with snares, um, I prefer just the regular uh, steel traps, but, um, but yes, you do have to. Cable restraints are non-lethal and they have to have like a deer stop on them but, and they have to be set on on land. The snares can only be set in the water okay, gotcha, gotcha, very cool yeah, I'm moving, so I'm moving to pa and I guess.

Speaker 3: 1:01:03

So what you're saying is I could, with a pa hunting license, you're also allowed a certain amount of trapping, or?

Speaker 4: 1:01:11

yes, so you can buy. You can buy your fur takers license and then your fur takers license will allow you to hunt and or trap fur bearers um, just with just with your, your. You you would want your adult resident fur takers license and then your regular resident um hunting license, but you can, and you can shoot coyotes with just your regular hunting license. But if you're going to shoot foxes or raccoons or anything like that, you need your fur takers on top of that, um, but that's different.

Speaker 4: 1:01:39

That's, that's different yeah, um, but if you, if you take your, your successful or your your hunter, trapper, ed course, then you can trap and then if you want, if you want to learn more um the successful fur takers courses is, I took that and I think I got a 99 out of 100 on it.

Speaker 2: 1:01:59

Um, I took it when I was not a big deal when I was like 10 humble brag right there not not a big deal it it was.

Speaker 4: 1:02:09

It was a lot.

Speaker 2: 1:02:10

Whoever the PA guys are that are listening to us that did not get a 99 and got schooled by a 10 year old Like they're just like damn shame, shame right now.

Speaker 4: 1:02:21

Yeah, it was fun but but they gave me like a little mock test at the end and at least they did when I was younger. But that was, it was a lot of fun and you get to keep the book to look at and study. But a cool thing about PA is that All of our almost all of our districts of the Trappers Association host a trapper training school every year. Almost all of them and if yours doesn't, another one probably is. That's close by, but um, that's a really good way to go and learn and you can learn about all the different species trap prep, lures and baits, fur handling and you can have like pretty hands-on experience. I mean, it's usually only like a one day thing, but that is also something to look into if you're moving to pa and you want to learn how to trap.

Speaker 3: 1:03:15

Yeah, what? Obviously like, you've probably got dozens of traps.

Speaker 3: 1:03:17

You've probably got traps coming out of your ears, just like how you collect them and your dad's pass them down and you know you trap with your boyfriend so that you borrow his or whatever. Maybe you don't, maybe he doesn't let that happen. But what would be like for somebody getting started or whatever? Maybe he doesn't let that happen. What would be for somebody getting started? They just want to do basic trapping like raccoons, possums. What would be the first trap that you would buy as a starter?

Speaker 4: 1:03:43

A Duke dog proof Well, probably a half a dozen, but I would get Duke dog proofs because they're my favorite, they're very easy to use and they're they're very high quality trap. I have owned several dozen of them, but that that's my. That's my favorite dog proof. They make lots of different types of dog proofs that are for everybody's trappings. A lot about personal preference. So if you find something better that works for you, then it's perfectly OK to switch to those like after you've had some experience. But in my like, like in my personal experience, like last year I hosted a kids event with a youth mountain man race and I had I had kids that were six years old setting duke dog proof. So they're not hard, does that at all, and they're strong. They work really well. So that is, that is what I would, would suggest for a first trap. They're relatively inexpensive um compared to like yeah, I'm looking right now.

Speaker 3: 1:04:46

It's like, uh, if you order 12 on their 12 each, so yes, it's not a huge barrier for entry, I mean that's. I mean like 12 is good enough to get you a good start, right, what, uh, do you tan your own hides? Or what do you do once you, once you get your your high, once you, you know, you know, I don't know, you probably have to shoot them with a 22 or something.

Speaker 4: 1:05:06

Yep, and then, um, you skin them and then flush, um, typically with raccoons it's have to shoot them with a 22 or something, yep, and then you skin them and then flush. Typically with raccoons it's easier to flush them if you put them in the freezer and let them kind of sit in the freezer for about a week before you try to flush them, because the fat comes off a lot easier. But then you turn them inside out, flush side out and pin them on a board and let them dry and then you can sell them or send them off to be t out and pin them on a board and let them dry, and then you can sell them or send them off to be tanned or pin them yourself. But I I've never gotten into that.

Speaker 4: 1:05:34

I just don't really have the time yeah so I would like to someday, but I don't not soon I got a another question that's gonna pique mike's interest.

Speaker 3: 1:05:48

Um, I've always been curious about eating beaver, but do you? Eat any of the animals that you trap.

Speaker 4: 1:05:55

I know mike really wants to eat raccoon for what I have had, raccoon, I've had raccoon, it's good uh beaver is beaver is so good like when I tell you I could feed it to you and you wouldn't know that it was a beef, like it is. I've had beaver cheese steaks. I've had like pulled, like roast beef beaver oh my God, it's phenomenal. I've had beaver sticks it's phenomenal, phenomenal. Any way. You make it like I would go out and trap either, just to eat them.

Speaker 2: 1:06:24

So I have a huge. We do an annual game dinner we start. Our first one was this year. Next year's, I'm going to let you know ahead of time. Can you bring a beaver course? And I want to try it so badly.

Speaker 4: 1:06:45

Yes.

Speaker 2: 1:06:46

I would like. I love trying different type of animals, like, and I never even like. If Peyton didn't bring it up, I probably would never have thought to try or to eat beaver, which is crazy because, like I would try anything at least once. But now that you said it and it tastes like I have to have it.

Speaker 1: 1:07:06

Like I have to have it.

Speaker 2: 1:07:08

It is so good.

Speaker 4: 1:07:09

Like my dad won to have it, Like I have to have it.

Speaker 2: 1:07:11

It is so good, Like my dad won't eat it.

Speaker 4: 1:07:12

Like my dad won't eat it because he thinks it's weird, but like I wouldn't be able to tell you what it was when I was eating it. Like I couldn't tell you what it was. And that's the same way I feel about Goose. I love eating Goose my favorite game of all time.

Speaker 2: 1:07:26

Really.

Speaker 3: 1:07:32

All favorite game of all time, really all-time favorite. Wow, that's a hot take. No, that is a very hot head over wood ducks. Really the canadians interesting. I don't know if I'm with you on that one. Maybe I'm just not doing it right. I've shot a lot of neat and a lot yeah what a lot of geese in my life.

Speaker 3: 1:07:43

I that's what I cut my teeth on was waterfowl hunting and my favorite thing was we'd always feel like breast out the goose, jerichium, whatever. I've done some things with them, but our favorite was always wood ducks.

Speaker 4: 1:07:56

October wood duck wood ducks are good. Ruddy ducks are really good. Um, that's another hot take. I know a lot of people that hate ruddy duck is good, but um I, so my mom, cooks a lot of my game.

Speaker 4: 1:08:12

Um, because after I skin it and I don't feel like cooking it, so I yeah, I get that my mom discovers a lot of the a lot of the recipes, but she marinates them in steak sauce and then wraps and wraps the fillets in bacon and okay, well, there you go, bacon there, there you go right there the steak sauce, and then wraps and wraps the fillets and bacon and puts them in the oven.

Speaker 2: 1:08:29

Okay, well, there you go. Bacon there. There you go right there.

Speaker 3: 1:08:32

The steak sauce is probably a good trick too, especially with the ruddy ducks, where people will say them sea ducks are like real fishy taste.

Speaker 2: 1:08:39

I've had. I've had ruddy ducks before.

Speaker 3: 1:08:41

The steak sauce. Like the acid in it, it's probably a real good way to to kind of get work some of that out. That's a good idea. I'm going to try steak sauce next time I shoot some sea ducks, cause we shoot a lot of scooters and long tail ducks, old squall Waffleheads.

Speaker 2: 1:08:54

Wrap it in bacon too.

Speaker 4: 1:08:55

Wrap it in bacon, take the breast and slice it up into cubes and do it in like a cast iron skillet with butter and just season it in soy sauce.

Speaker 1: 1:09:05

Garlic powder cajun seasoning.

Speaker 4: 1:09:09

So good.

Speaker 2: 1:09:11

Okay, okay, yeah, I'm starting to get hungry. Um now, yeah, what is your goat? Like you, you said, mom cooks usually does she cook the beaver too?

Speaker 4: 1:09:24

no, so my, I actually was only able to try that this year because my boyfriend's uncle makes. I love him to death. He makes. He'll make like anything. If you take him a possum, he'll make something out of the possum, but um yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:09:37

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:09:38

Right, um, but he made beaver cheesesteaks, which were very good, um, but my favorite was probably like the pulled beaver, like with mashed potatoes.

Speaker 3: 1:09:57

You can't even, you can't even make a hot roast kind of deal.

Speaker 4: 1:10:00

So good, so good, anything I can put my crock pot.

Speaker 3: 1:10:01

I'm on, I'm on top of I got something going right now, but no, you don't.

Speaker 4: 1:10:03

You eat raccoon, I know that's something mike's been that is something that I will not touch just because. I'm way too aware of all the parasites that raccoons carry, raccoon roundworm is a terrible, terrible death. I would not want to die that way, so I won't eat it. Beavers Girardia.

Speaker 2: 1:10:24

Don't say that, do not say that, because you just don't ruin raccoon for me.

Speaker 4: 1:10:29

I'm so sorry, I would not touch them.

Speaker 2: 1:10:33

Yeah, but it's the same thing like with bear.

Speaker 4: 1:10:36

Yeah, trigonosis.

Speaker 2: 1:10:37

Well, maybe yeah Can kill you as well, if untreated, could kill you. Now someone in the chat I'm talking to the guys in the chat right now they said have you tried muskrat? Someone said muskrat was really delicious, have you?

Speaker 4: 1:10:51

tried that yet, but I think it would be a lot like beaver, because they're in the same family Kind of. So I think, I think I need muskrat. I would try muskrat too.

Speaker 3: 1:11:02

I don't think I'd eat possum.

Speaker 4: 1:11:04

Oh no. And if they no to possum eating, possum be like crow. Uh, but I, I listen, we no me and my buddy no, no, no me.

Speaker 2: 1:11:15

And my buddy shot. We me and justin we shot crows one year and we looked at the meat and it was actually a very red. It looked really good. Listen, I will, like I said, I will try Anything at least once, and if I Like it, I will Continue to eat it. That is my thing. Like I cannot Gosh forbid if I'm ever in a survival. Listen, look at what we do, and that's my thing. Look at what we do, gosh Forbid.

Speaker 2: 1:11:42

If you're in a Serious survival situation, you Need to know you can eat Anything with, with whatever, and and that's it like that. That's my thing. Like I'm not saying I will eat it constantly. Now, if it tastes good like raccoon, will I eat it more often? Yes, but I got to at least try everything once so I can be like all right, cool, I've tried this already, it's not a big deal.

Speaker 2: 1:12:08

Like you got to remember down south, like I always tell people is down south, they eat poss once, so I can be like all right, cool, I've tried this already, it's not a big deal. Like you gotta remember down south, like I always tell people it's down south, they eat possums, they eat raccoon, they armadillo, like they eat everything. There is no, like that whole roadkill thing, that's true. Like if they see something and it's fresh, like like. I've heard stories of people like yeah, like, yeah, that's what we do down south. Like down south is known for. Like this is not a new thing, this isn't, like you know.

Speaker 2: 1:12:31

You just have to cook it and prepare it correctly. Yes, raccoons carry tons of diseases. You know what guess what? So do a lot of other animals too as well. Just make sure you cook and prepare your, your animal correctly. Like bear, there's always a risk when you're eating bear. That's why I cooked the hell out of my bear. I just I cooked the hell out of it. And it's amazing. Ask me, 10 years ago, would I have eaten bear? Probably not. I'd be like, oh no. Like after seeing that whole Meteor episode where he got Trig up on the mountain with that guy, I was like hell, no.

Speaker 3: 1:13:04

Then I tried it and I was like a little bit of a lesser risk where we're at with trigonosis. I think I read somewhere that I think it might have been a bear in PA or Connecticut I don't know why I want to say Connecticut, but it had like very little, maybe even Maine, somewhere around the East Coast, like very little trigonosis.

Speaker 2: 1:13:21

Whereas in Colorado? Yes, I read that too, I read that too.

Speaker 3: 1:13:25

Colorado is like riddled with it, but then out here it wasn't as bad. But you should still cook it to 160. Even though I love it. But I know Jim Miller. I heard Jim Miller, New Jersey guy, I think he was on Rogan and he was talking about he's like not worried about it. He might have changed his course on that, but he was talking about not being worried about trigonosis in bears I wonder his claim was that the freezer killed it and that was good enough for him teach their own.

Speaker 2: 1:13:55

I'm not doing that which has been the freezer, kills a lot of things, but it's very much well known that it does not kill trig. Yeah, um. But here's the thing, what you can do. I mean, if you're really that nervous, I'm pretty sure you can send a sample out to get tested. There you go. If it comes back negative, I would be all for. I mean, I don't know, I'd probably be nervous for a while, but I would be not that one spot well, I'm pretty sure how trig works.

Speaker 2: 1:14:26

If it's it's, it's all over, like it's not just like it's all in your yeah, yeah, it's not just like it's all in your yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:14:30

Yeah, it's not just like in a specific area, supposedly it is off, because they look, they lay eggs and larva, so there's a lot like you know what's his face? Meteor? He literally says, like if someone eats my meat, one eats my meat. Like if, if we're, if we're in a zombie apocalypse and somebody kills me and they go to eat me, he's gonna laugh because they're gonna have trig, like it's just, it's just everywhere in his muscles or or something like that, waiting to be eaten and then it goes into the stomach and then it, that's where the worms come, or whatever the hell it is.

Speaker 2: 1:15:06

I mean, yeah, we're getting completely off topic. Um, you, you do, you do a lot, so we're we are gonna have to. You know, we would love to get you back on for another episode because you again, you, there's waterfowl, there's more turkey stuff, there's deer stuff there. You know there's fishing, like look at all the fishing you do. And just also, I, I know you're big into trap like you're, aren't you like on the board or something like that? Or you're a part of the pa's trappers associates or something like that. That's I. I knew I wasn't, wasn't going crazy. Actually that's where somebody recommended you to to interview because I trapped. I um interviewed a guy named jason um last year and that was the first time I like I actually talked to a trapper and he was like listen, if you you think this is like you gotta, you gotta talk to this girl, like hey this is she um, I want to say walton, oh okay, I know you're talking about yeah, I, I'm 95 sure that that's his last name.

Speaker 2: 1:16:08

Just, yet again, everyone, if he's listened to this you know I butcher people's last names so like but I'm pretty sure that's um, that's his last name, of course. Now I gotta look it up.

Speaker 2: 1:16:22

Yep, yep, jason Walton okay cool, fun, fun, fun episode that I did with him. But that was like kind of like my introduction into trapping and ever since then, like I've gotten more and more obsessed. And now, like I start turkey hunting this year, like actually like getting into it, and now it's like, okay, I want to trap and because a big part for managing turkeys I've seen our turkey population just literally take a swan dive, you know. And then talking to Mike Chamberlain and all these other people and you know, talking to Peyton, and just it's, it's something that needs to, I think needs to grow again. And you know I would love for the fur prices to come back. I'm a huge natural. Like listen, this is my bear and I just have it, you know, tanned out and I love, like I love it to death. Like that's. First I would like to have my own fur outfit. I know people are going to look at me like crazy, but like, listen, you give me animals that I've shot or trapped and somebody make me an outfit. I would wear that outfit every single day. I would wear that to work. My patients may think I need to go down to the second floor with the adults, but like that's, that's what I would do, you know. And one more question before you know I let you go, or two more.

Speaker 2: 1:17:38

Actually, you know you don't see too many women in trapping At least I don't. You know trapping is also that that new. I know it's been around for generations and generations. But you know, women in hunting has gotten really big and you know you see it more and more and more and more support, and it's something that we really need, right, everyone should be able to do what we. You know hunting, fishing, trapping, whatever it is. You know, but I don't see too many women. Why, like, is that, first of all, something that I just don don't see, or I just don't notice because I'm not in the trapping world, or is that something that's still like? You see a lot of the old school people just doing. It's like more of an old school thing, and it just happens that your family has done this, so this is what you've been doing since. You know you can basically walk so I know um.

Speaker 4: 1:18:26

I know several, several very strong women in trapping Laura Gidney, christina Jones. There's lots of strong women out there that are trappers. Sky Good, I believe, she's from Wisconsin. She's incredible, she does it barefoot actually.

Speaker 2: 1:18:40

Lost me.

Speaker 3: 1:18:40

Yeah she's insane, I love her.

Speaker 4: 1:18:46

I think. I think a lot of it is, um, the work that that is put into it, and probably time and having somebody to show you like if I didn't trap, I would be really intimidated to start, because there's so much that goes into it. Like, like you said, about buying the traps if they're $12 a piece, but you have to buy, you have to get something to anchor those traps in the ground, you have to get something. You have to have something to anchor those traps in the ground, you have to get something. You have to have a have a trap, some kind of mechanism to pull the traps out of the ground. When you're done, you gotta buy bait and lure and maybe a pair of waders that you don't have. Like it, it can kind of. It can kind of be a lot, and I think that that is probably part of the reason that that there aren't more women because there aren't barrier for there's not like a lot

Speaker 4: 1:19:32

yeah, um, you have to, you have to be committed to like you gotta have a hammer and a driver and like like you gotta have like a certain collection of things to be able to go and do um, to be able to do it.

Speaker 4: 1:19:45

It's not super expensive but like it's a lot to get into and to try if you don't actually like it.

Speaker 4: 1:19:51

So you almost have to know somebody that's willing to take you along and that can be that can be difficult to find sometimes, but, um, there have recently been a lot of women that are that are um like up in uh state trappers associations, um like um, one of my friends, lydia from ohio, she's uh, she's big into she does demos out there and stuff, and there's there's younger girls now getting into it um and doing demos at the bigger rendezvous and I absolutely love to see it. So, uh, but it's, it's coming about. But if, if you don't have a dad or a mom to get you into it, it's a it's difficult to be able to enter and be successful, um, because there's just a lot that goes into it and it's not impossible by any means, but it's. It makes it a little bit harder than hunting to to get into because it's a lot of equipment versus like a gun and clothes and stuff like that. I feel like that's easier than than trapping because 100 percent.

Speaker 4: 1:20:54

Yeah, it's, it's a little more intricate, so.

Speaker 2: 1:20:59

Yeah, I listen, trapping has been very intimidating just for me alone, and that's because no one else I didn't start. You know, like I I said like the first person I really talked about trapping was, you know, last year, and then now you're the second actual like trapper that we've ever had on. You know, the show's been running for four years now and I've started to see it more and more. You know, but not in the same type of wavelength as you're seeing. Like, of course, bow hunting, like bow hunting has taken off like just skyrocketed. You know, um, waterfowl hunting is another thing that is just is booming right now. You know, but I do believe that trapping is on that horizon. You know where it, where it's, it's starting to become.

Speaker 2: 1:21:49

Now we're we're getting really into more management like this generation I think, more into the management aspect of things, especially, you know, turkey hunting is extremely popular and I think it's going to be another thing that's just going to grow in popularity as as we go. And when you start to see the turkey number going down and the raccoon numbers going up or the pot, you know these predators going up then it's like all right, what is something that you know? That's that we're not doing. You know the fur prices are not what they used to be in trapping. You know used to be huge back in the day. Okay, now, what is one thing that we can do? We can, we can start trapping again. You know managing a property Not everyone has private property to manage, but trapping is that one thing that you can do. All you know that's going to help you in the long run. Whether you're deer hunting, whether you're Turkey hunting, whether you know, whatever it is like you're you're trying to get meat or fur or some other type of excitement and challenge.

Speaker 2: 1:22:48

Like I think trapping is that like tip of tip of the iceberg, because it I don't know where to even start in. Like without you know youtube, the last two people I've talked to, like I wouldn't even know any of these things, like at least this conversation. Now, like some of the words that you're using, I was like, all right now, I know that just because off of the episode that I did with jason. But when I first recorded with jason, I was just sitting there just like, yeah, man, he just said I was like I have no idea what the hell. Like I was a listener. I literally I didn't feel like a host. I was literally just listening just because, like I don't know anything about trapping, I you know I'm a, I'm a absolute baby when it comes to trapping. So it's, it's, it's one of those things I'm really excited to look forward to yeah, I'm glad that you're interested.

Speaker 4: 1:23:38

We need, we need more kind of. The gap that we're seeing now is like kind of like just like a general, like your guys's age group, kind of like the middle, like we kind of lose people when they go to college and then we lose them because they start a family and they don't really have the time to put in. So that's kind of the age group that we're looking at, trying to like re-recruit back into trapping. And it's also hard because some people don't have some people don't have a place to like skin anything or hang anything to dry yeah, yeah, that's another's another thing but like the fur handling part's my favorite and it's it's fairly easy if you have somebody to show you and it's not expensive at all.

Speaker 4: 1:24:16

But the fur handling part is not the expensive part, it's the, the buying, the trapped part yeah, my, my fiancee's.

Speaker 2: 1:24:22

Actually she said that she's into the whole taxidermy thing and she wants to see it every like broken down and the skinning and and everything like that, because she's the one that cooks in the house, like you know. You you said that you know, after you've done everything, like the last thing you want to do is cook. Well, for me it's she doesn't like my cooking, so I I could eat a deer, any animal, straight, just throw it on the fire nose, I could just have it like that, but she's like she needs to have it this way. So she does all the cooking now. But you know, it's something that, like, I'm pretty lucky, like, even though we're going to be starting the next chapter and everything like that, I'll be able to still go out trapping, I'll be able to still, I can still hunt, I can still do all of these things where not everyone has that opportunity.

Speaker 2: 1:25:07

You know, and it's difficult because you know when you are starting a family or job or whatever it is, it's like, how do you, how do you balance you? It's hard to balance it too, because there are some priorities. But you know, when you have someone that's understanding or whatever the case is like that is a great opportunity for someone to pick up trapping or something like that. It's even, you know, then it gets more people into it. You know, once you know we get into it, then you know, I imagine we'll get other people into it and then we'll get our kids into it, and you know everything like that and that's that's what we really need and you know, that's.

Speaker 2: 1:25:44

You know, just from that's, that's's been lacking because, like I've, I don't know really anyone that traps, like I'm just starting to, you know, and that's that's the one thing and it's, you know, hopefully, in the next couple of years, like, the trapping numbers would definitely like be where they need to be for, you know, 2000, let's, let's say 2030, right, five years. I think five years would be would be a good, five years would be would be a good five. Six years would be a good, a good take to like reassess where trapping numbers are and I think there will be a lot more trappers in in the country yes, and new jersey is a difficult state to trap in just because of all the laws it's a new jersey difficult

Speaker 2: 1:26:23

state for everything like they don't make much easy here no, nothing is easy where, if you live, if you're from jersey, you're just so used to it that's like okay, this is just going to be difficult, like I think they're given. I think my buddy called me and he just got. He was like well, because they can dispatch, I think, with a bb gun and just like, I don't even know what else. But like he's like oh well, I have an air air rifle or whatever he's like, but it holds like 18. But like he was like oh well, I have an air rifle or whatever he's like, but it holds like 18 or 20 rounds. He was like and we're, they're only allowed to carry three. He was like so do I have to put a pin in there? Or like, can I put like three in there or can I just like? He's like well, technically you know me personally, I wouldn't care, and this is the warden speeds like I wouldn't care, but I don't know what, what the next warden, you know, and that's like that. That's what we're kind of dealing with here in New Jersey.

Speaker 2: 1:27:16

It's like okay, well, you're saying that, but the rule is so, like there's a gray area, it's like do I really need to put a pin in there? I understand, but I'm not. You're not going to see me going to shoot freaking a bunch of animals with the air gun, like I'm just going to dispatch boom and that's it. So it's, I don't know. It's, it's tough and like I know the guys they're complaining in the chat about how they don't understand, where it's just so stupid that they got to do like all these things and everything like that. Just, you know they had to do the two-day course and you know they're half the stuff that they're learning. They're not, they're not going to be using some of the stuff as well.

Speaker 4: 1:27:57

So it's like it's a lot and off-putting yeah and like, like they, they feed you a lot of stuff, but like sometimes people will like, when you get out there the trap, you'll understand why they give you all that information. Um and like, sometimes people change their mind to like an approach like oh, maybe maybe snares would be better here or maybe cable restraints would be better here, so that people don't see my traps or or recognize my set, because cable restraints are a lot harder to find than a dirt hole set in the ground. Well, it's like it's very situational yeah, yeah, makes yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:28:39

Now listen, hunting. Hunting in general is situational. Everything that we do is just very situational, from fishing to hunting, to to. So that's what makes what we do so great. But, guys, you got it. Got any more questions? I mean this was.

Speaker 3: 1:28:55

I think, I think I'm good. It's kind of blew my mind this, this one is the good one, for sure.

Speaker 2: 1:29:01

This was very interesting. We got to six fun facts. By the way, autumn, next time, the next time you come on on, we're looking to beat six. So you know, remember that. If I don't remember, remember it. So you have your, your facts, already ready to go. You know, and we appreciate you coming on. Anyone out there? Go check her Instagram out. It is um P P H or PA trapper girl on Instagram. Um, absolutely just killing it with the fishing, the hunting, every everything that you do. It's, it's truly amazing. And I did notice that, um, you were talking at the great American outdoor show. Was it this this year? Right, how, how is that? How, how was it? Was that the biggest show that you've that you've done so far?

Speaker 4: 1:29:49

Yes, I spoke. It depended on the day. I spoke to crowds bigger than 400 people and I spoke to one person in the audience. Like it depended on the time that it was scheduled. But, like the less people I had, I found it was easier to make it more personal. Like the one guy I had no, had no idea about fishing I was able to take him to the trout magnet booth to get him some trout magnets and I was able to walk him back to to the booth that I was at and help him pick out some baits and I was able to walk him over and help him pick out a new pair of fishing clippers.

Speaker 4: 1:30:19

Like, like, being able to be personal with people, like that is really awesome. But it's also really just like incredible to see how many people like, like most of the seminars that were, like midday, there was standing room only for people um, which was absolutely incredible. And to get up, to be able to get up there in front of all those people and and fish and talk about things and and then see how, see how people reacted and they would rush over to buy, to buy the baits because, like I watched some other seminars and the fish wouldn't touch. Wouldn't touch their stuff, but I actually I was fishing a senko so awkward I know, and I got stuck on a log and I had to.

Speaker 4: 1:30:57

I had to break it off and this giant bass came and swallowed the whole thing. Meanwhile there's a zoom fluke that was laying on the bottom for six days and nobody touched it. It ate off the whole thing, like I, yeah, but it was an incredible experience and like questions that people ask, like people are like will you sign my pack of baits? And I'm like I guess I don't know that's so cool.

Speaker 2: 1:31:22

That that is so cool. Uh, hopefully we see you at um, see at the show next year. We go up every year like it's a annual trip for us. You know we're there for days and everything like that. So, uh, hopefully we see you see you up there next year, um, but it was a absolute pleasure, uh, talking to you, you know. Thank you so much, um for coming on and, um, you know everyone out there. I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. Autumn any. Any last words?

Speaker 4: 1:31:48

um, just want to thank you guys for for having me on, and if any viewers would be so kind as to um go like the and follow the pennsylvania trappers association on facebook, that would be great you hear that there on facebook, go, go, check it out.

Speaker 2: 1:32:04

we'll. We'll put the link in the description below when we everything from her Instagram to the Facebook page to anything that is needed will be in the Instagram. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to reach out. Listen, I guarantee you, when I'm starting to get into this whole thing, you know the guys will be reaching out and stuff like that, and you know we'll definitely be talking soon and you know can't wait to talk to you next time awesome.

Speaker 4: 1:32:31

Thank you guys so much. It was great meeting you nice meeting.

Speaker 2: 1:32:34

You likewise have a great night, you too.