Speaker 1: 0:00

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Speaker 2: 1:08

Welcome to the show Randy hey, thanks for having me, mike.

Speaker 1: 1:12

No problem, it's a pleasure of mine to get you on. You know, I've been following along a little bit with you for the past couple of years. We met each other, I think, I think, like two different occasions. We did the Empire, not the Empire, that one Sussex show, and then you were at the Empire State Show as well, you know. But it's finally a great pleasure of mine to get you on and, you know, excited to for our conversation. But real quick, why don't you give a quick backstory for all the listeners out there?

Speaker 2: 1:47

all right. Well, I'm, uh, I'm a retired, uh, new york city detective. I grew up in upstate new york. Um, my grandfather was, uh, my main staple, um, my main moral direction, my code, and he's the guy that kind of instilled everything in me. He took me hunting from the time I could barely walk. We were in the woods, you know, just living that life, he taught me a lot, of, a lot of lessons, important growing up lessons and you know, and that's something that stuck with me my whole life and then, when I had my own kids, it was something that I just felt was important, that had to be taught, almost the same way my grandfather taught me, and something that had to be passed on. And that's basically, I would say, our community, the hunting community. I wouldn't be surprised if maybe 80, 90 percent of us kind of fit that mold and just lived the way that we were raised and passing on lived the way that we were raised and passing on.

Speaker 1: 2:47

Yeah, no, definitely. And you know you, you talk about your grandfather and he, he was the one that really got you in what you know what was some of your earliest memories Like what was the you know your first hunt? Like like what back then, you know where was it gun hunting? You know, I know upstate New York it's.

Speaker 2: 3:01

You know, you know it's all different with the rules and everything like that, but was a lot more just gun hunting back then and everything like that. Yeah, predominantly my grandfather was. He's one of the ones that fit the mold. He came home from World War II. He was able to purchase a land and build a home with the, with the grants that were for the soldiers from World War Two and, very much like a lot of the men from that generation, they took to hunting and a lot of it being, you know, post postwar, you know today, I know they got all kinds of different names and post-traumatic and everything else.

Speaker 2: 3:44

But that lifestyle is what he lived and living up there in a rural area we had quite a bit of acreage for me to roam as a child and that's what we did. We took care of, you know, we had the garden for the fruits and vegetables and we had the hunting for the meat and self-sufficiency of living that way and it was kind of I can't remember an exact first, I mean there's just so many memories rabbits, you know flushing out rabbits and taking shots at them and you know clearing woodchucks out and hunting foxes and coyotes. And he was a big avid sportsman with Turkey. So he got involved with the National Wild Turkey Federation in the early 80s, when it was just blossoming in the early eighties, when it was just blossoming and he ended up, uh, I don't remember if he was one of the, the the starters of the Catskill uh chapter in New York or if he was just a president. I know he was a president for um some time in the early eighties but uh, we were always, you know, releasing pheasants, releasing turkeys, deer hunting, you know just basically everything, the whole gamut of what a back, you know not, not back country, not the Western hunting that we see, that's really predominant in the in the media today, but that, you know, walk out your back door and hunt what you have kind of lifestyle.

Speaker 2: 5:23

He, you know, we never. You know, thanksgiving was hunting and then food at noon, you know, so it was. Everybody would get together, go hunting at noon and come in and eat after, after everybody was done hunting and and that was, you know, that's most of the memories of just being out in the woods. Um, the most common memory I have is him waking me up before school to go turkey hunting, dragging me out in the woods and me and him both falling asleep at a tree and then waking up like yo, you gotta go to school. So that's uh, that's the most common memory oh, I love that.

Speaker 1: 5:58

You know and and that sounds like I mean I want to say, every hunter's dream, you know they really want I feel like maybe not every, but majority of the hunters, like I think you want to be as self-sufficient as you possibly can, especially the way that our world is going. And, yes, you know, you know farming, get, you know having your own vegetables and everything like that, your own crop, and then being able to go out in your back door and, you know, hunt every game species that you're legally allowed to hunt. I mean, who would it, who would it want that? That? That like just picturing that, like just in my head it's like that's the childhood you know, that's, that's one that, like, I want my kids to have, and everything like that I imagine that you're going to.

Speaker 2: 6:42

You know you're teaching absolutely everything like that and I imagine that you're going to you know you're teaching kids and everything like that as well.

Speaker 1: 6:45

I'm passing down the traditions and everything like that, but you know, it's just it's sad to see where our you know, we'll just keep it on our country, you know and how everything is just so focused on everything else besides. You know nature and the outdoors and and hunting and fishing and even farming, you know you, you could definitely talk about that Like farming too is another one that there it's really being cut down and you don't see people getting dirty with with their hands.

Speaker 1: 7:16

You know, and that's like that's the tough thing but, those memories right there last forever and you know it must be a great experience now for you to to teach your children as well.

Speaker 2: 7:28

Yeah, and it's also. It's one of those. It's a reality check at the same time, because it's one of those things that you grow up in. And you know my childhood was, you know there were plenty of things that weren't great about it and there was plenty of things that were great. And it's when you sit down and you reflect now, you know, being 45 years old and having children, and it's, you know, I look back and you know I'm telling you these stories and it's like man, I didn't appreciate that enough when I was a child and I really didn't know what I had.

Speaker 2: 7:58

And I think that's part of being a father is kind of putting, trying to open the eyes of your children to say, hey, look, this is what we have, let's enjoy this. And because you never know if you're going to have it or you're not. And you know my story is I ended up moving away from the country, living in the city, working in the city, and you know I live now in the suburbs and it's very much an empty feeling for me to not have what I took for granted when I was a kid. And it's like man, I wish I could just, you know, just really open the eyes of my children and be like look, you don't know how lucky you are to enjoy what you have now. You know, because there's going to come a time when you get older and it's you may not have these things. You may not have the same experience, you may live in a totally different part of the country, you might not have the same opportunities. Especially you know what we're talking about with the way the country is going.

Speaker 2: 8:58

They're just trying to take away so many things that we were raised on and you know, like you touch on the farming, uh, what's going on in colorado with all the you know, ballot, bat, ballot box conservation issues that they're coming up with, and it's like we didn't have that issue as a kid and it was never even thought of as uh, oh, you know. Uh, you know, what do you mean I can't do this? What do you mean I can't go out and hunt in my backyard? Or you know, and it was just it.

Speaker 2: 9:25

Do you mean I can't do this? What do you mean? I can't go out and hunt in my backyard, or you know, and it was just, it's those things, and it's like we just really want to open up the kids and not even opening up the kids. But for us too, as the adults, it's come to, it's been handed down to us, and we're going to be the generation that decides. If we teach this way of life, it'll stay here, at least for now. But if we don't and we don't fight for it we're going to be the generation that loses it.

Speaker 1: 9:55

Yeah, oh man, yeah, that's, that's 100 percent correct right there. And you know, you know something. I want to just what your experience was. You know, when you made that transition to the city. You know, and you know anyone see the city from. I go up on my roof and I can see the city like we've been so accustomed now to this, the city life. You know, when you're coming from such a different area and background, what was the adjustments for for you?

Speaker 2: 10:41

well, it was funny because, like every I don't want to say every kid, that's kind of like lost. You know, it's like I wanted to go to the sea, I wanted to get out of the country. It reminds me of that old wailing song where the corn don't grow, you know, and it's like you want. I was attracted to the city. I wanted to go to the city because it was something that I didn't know, it was something new, it was something exciting and part of me really just wanted to go and make my own life. And I did. You know, I kind of left everything behind, I went, I struggled, I made it happen and you know, it was like, you know, listening to that song as a kid, as you know, like if you can make it here, you can make it anywhere, like you know, like Frank Sinatra said and I would say the big difference was back then those opportunities were still viable and real.

Speaker 2: 11:33

Today, I don't know how much of it might be the opposite direction. You know, like you're going to go to New York City, but what are you really going to get out of it? Are you going to make a career? Are you going to make? I mean, granted, the civil service jobs are still second to none. The health benefits, the retirement, you know that is a staple of the city and very providing for a lot of people, but people that have the opportunity. Now you start, you see the trend is going the other way.

Speaker 2: 11:59

Back in the nineties the trend was let's go to the city, everything's possible in the city. Now the trend is let's get away from the city, let's do, you know, homesteading, let's do the farming, let's do small community, let's do all these things. So it's a very much different time from when I was a kid, because I went into it wholeheartedly, with nothing. I was like one of those kids that showed up and I was staying at a friend's house, I was living here. I was living there, you know, and I got a job as a waiter and I was waiting tables and my tips could pay the rent. I mean, I think my first rent in New York City Back in the late 90s was only like three hundred and fifty dollars. You know, it was like so I can make my rent. You know, now it's like I don't know how kids come to the city and they're like oh yeah, the rent's like two thousand dollars it's.

Speaker 1: 12:54

It's very much different time different opportunities for, for young, uh, young people these days. Yeah, it's you're. You're seeing it all over the place like everyone is not everyone, but a lot of people are leaving the city and you touched on that, like the homestead lifestyle, like that's kind of what's it right now and what's in, because I think, you know, a lot of things have been exposed. You know, we can, you know, with just COVID in general, I think people kind of started to see like hey, we kind of need to start to have a healthier lifestyle. You know, we don't want to be confined to such a small area with millions and millions of people.

Speaker 1: 13:29

You know I'll never forget this, you know when I was in maine, you know, the first year of covid, like they're like, yeah, what we're all we're so spread out, like we don't. They didn't really pay attention to that, like out out in the sticks, like in the middle of nowhere, like life just kept going on. But you know, back in the city everyone was on lockdown. You couldn't do this, couldn't do that, you know, and I think it just opened a lot of people's eyes. And then, you know, eating healthier you're looking at all the bad processed food and America and everything like that.

Speaker 1: 14:02

So people just trust it. Trust it If they grow it themselves, if they hunted themselves, they fish themselves. I mean, I know, for hunting we still have a long way to go because we're always going to be attacked by, you know, by others. But I think the clean lifestyle has gotten way more popular of homesteading and everything like that as well, and it, yet again hunting has to go hand in hand with that. You know you can't have, can't say, oh well, I want to just grow fruits and vegetables but go to the store and get chicken and beef that are coming from, you know, a factory and everything like that. So at the end it has to go hand in hand.

Speaker 2: 14:42

Absolutely, absolutely. And as in everything, I kind of always I try to remember and always try to tell myself everything comes in waves. You know and it's something I was taught as a kid you're going to have good times, you're going to have bad times, it's going to go up and it's going to go down, and every issue kind of tends to have the same reaction. Being a detective in the city, you kind of you get more of a feel of that, because you see so much of the bad you start to forget the good and you start to really get blinded to things. But then if you tell yourself, well, you know, well, you know, like, hey, we're over here and this situation is really bad, you know, somebody living two doors down is having the exact opposite, um experience than what's happening over here. They don't even know about it.

Speaker 2: 15:36

My first eye awakening experience was becoming a cop and walking the street seeing everything that would happen in that day, in that week, and then being like why isn't this on the news? Like this is huge, and you know. And then you really start to see that there's two lives, there's two. There's two distinct realities. There's the, the reality of what's going on and the reality of what people, um, don't know is going on and how they live their lives in. You know I don't want to say in a bubble or you know, not to put anybody down, but it's a lot of people if it's not fed to them on the media, or that they wouldn't know, how would they know? You know what's going on unless they're told so it it becomes a really distinct difference between you know the reality of being in it and seeing all these different things that law enforcement provided, and then the reality of the people that live it but never see what's going on, and that fluctuates back and forth.

Speaker 2: 16:41

And I think people sometimes go from their you know, their, their blinders, kind of having their blinders on and what makes their life work. And I mean and I'm not putting them down either you have to have a certain amount of blinders to survive and actually live. Because if you, if you take off the blinders and you see what's going on around you, you know a hundred percent of the time and you can't afford to pick up and move, you can't afford to change your lifestyle. Or you know you're just barely making it by. You do kind of have to, you know, put it on and go in the survival mode, and that's what a lot of people live in is their survival mode. So, you know, having those experiences of going and this is what I'm talking about the ups and downs is that you kind of make your reality and you'll have the up, where you can kind of control it, and then you'll have the down parts where you have to have a. You know, it's not, it's not sustainable for us to be healthy, you know, and mentally healthy, physically healthy, you know, from a food standpoint healthy, you know, just across the board. You know, just across the board.

Speaker 2: 18:03

I think people are starting to, and COVID, like you said, absolutely opened up everything where they can see, like you know, wait a minute, this is not good. Why do we have all these chemicals in our food? Why don't they want us having farms anymore? You know? Why are they getting rid of farmland? Why do we have all our vegetables and fruits coming from China and meat shipped overseas, when we can do it here? And it's not, you know, and people are starting to realize, well, it's not climate change. You know that that argument is starting to really take a dive. Um, you know, because that was the big excuse. Oh, we can't have all these farms because it's terrible for the climate. But at the same time, what's better? China, you know it has like zero emission control, you know zero um you know uh the word care for the planet.

Speaker 2: 18:51

So it's, it's yeah like I said, it's all cyclical and I believe the more, yeah, and when more people open up and you know, and the information flows and like you know the podcast, what you do, and you know what I try to put out on my channel, and people start to really see like, hey, you know, there's a simpler life that we can control. You know, and it's like I, where I live now in the suburbs it's I got chickens last year and people like, oh, my god, I've never seen a chicken. You're like you've never seen a chicken. Come on, you know, and it's like you know I got three chickens and that gives me three eggs a day. That really it cuts down on the trip to the supermarket.

Speaker 2: 19:35

I still, you know, but at the same time you're you're supplementing. You don't need to. You know they go into that lockdown again and everybody's panicking and clearing out the. You know it's like at least I got something for myself. And you know, and as we do, you know if we make a, a kill in september or november to feed our family, at least, you know, depending on how, how much we eat, you know, through a quarter of the year yep, yeah, no, and it's.

Speaker 1: 20:01

You know, talking just about that. Like, first of all, our town won't let us have chickens. You know it's ridiculous. We want them eventually. You know I'm hoping that we will. But I want, I want everything like I want, you know, chickens. I want sheep. I want my fiance wants a horse. You know I pigs. I'm a huge bacon person, like I love having bacon, so you know I would. I just want, all around, be able to just hunt fish, provide for my whole entire family and you know what you have to. It's so hard to go to the grocery store right now because I'm spending. It seems like we're spending like five hundred dollars one trip and we really even get that, get that much. It's absolutely terrible. I'm hoping it's going to be something that changes, but it's really going to take for, like you said, all of us to just keep pushing what we're doing, showing everyone and teaching them what really us outdoors think those men are about.

Speaker 2: 21:06

You know right, yeah, and there's, and there's so many, as bad as it is, there are so many light, um, you know, like I say, like beacons of hope, but there are are so many things going on that are starting to turn and there's these little signs of things changing that really just give me a lot of hope for the future. And you know, there's a big push in religion, religion's making a huge comeback, which is is, you know, I think it's something vital to our community. It's always been like, you know, I go out, I say, you know, a little prayer. I always feel like I'm closer to jesus. When I'm out hunting, the world quiets down. You can kind of hear, you know the plan of nature, what's there for you? And then you know, and it's almost, it's our culture, you know, we think we thank God for what he has given us. I mean, that's literally the food that he meant that to be provided for us and for us to take. So it's like we have that going on. Then we have all these the fights going on across the country and it's like there are changes being made everywhere that kind of seem to seem like it's starting to tip in our way. And I'm being optimistic.

Speaker 2: 22:41

I took my son shooting and I posted up about him shooting, zeroing his rifle, and I gave him, you know, my .22 rifle that was given to me by my father. Now my father etched his initials in it when I was a kid. I mean when he was a kid when he gave it to me. I etched my initials in it when I was a kid and now I give it to him and he etched his initials in it. I mean, this is a rifle that's been in our family for three generations now and he's learning to shoot on that rifle just the way I did and I made a post about it and I made a couple videos and of course it gets flagged for content. It gets flagged for, you know, whatever they um violence, it got flagged for um consumer goods and whatever they're you know yeah, yeah whatever the thing is, and I I appealed it, thinking that you know, you know what I'm never gonna get.

Speaker 2: 23:35

You know, I'll just appeal it, I'm gonna fight the system, I'll put it up, I pinned it to my board and, sure enough, um, I was fortunate enough that I I've been for the last two or three months now. I got a call from Meta for creators and they're like, going over my you know my platform, how I use it, they're giving me tips and tricks and you know kind of telling me, hey, you know this is what you should do. Utilize this, utilize that. And I brought it up when she she called for a follow-up and I said, you know, I was like I was flagged for this and you know I was like I appealed it. She's like, well, I can't see the process. She was like, but if we go into it now, because at the time my whole account had got, uh, where it could not be seen by non-followers, so my whole Instagram account was only for my followers and it wouldn't be shared with non-followers, so she goes, you appealed it. And I was like, yeah, I appealed it. She goes, go into the last reel that you put up and check the reach and see if it's gotten to non-followers. And sure enough, I posted I think it was with the new field and stream issue and I think it was with the new field and stream issue and I think I got like 80% non-followers viewed that. So there she was, like yeah, you won your appeal, You're good. So it's like to me it's like what? I won the appeal.

Speaker 2: 24:54

I was like no way they're going to let you know a kid with a rifle win on appeal. And you know they've opened it up. But you know we'll see how it goes. And you know it's, it's a part of our culture, it's part of our life. You know, teaching kids gun responsibility, gun ownership and how to actually shoot a rifle is nothing but an actual win for um, for our society, because you're teaching young men and women how to properly treat these things that we have constitutional rights for. And like anything else, education is always going to be paramount to. You know, banning or getting rid of some like let's just educate people on what we have and why we do it, and you know. And then we raise the next generation to have the same respect. You know, to understand, you know what this um it actually is and I'll go and say that this is a tool that we use, no different than a craftsman uses a hammer or a saw or a nail and drills. It's a tool for our trade and it's a tool for, um, you know, providing for your family. It's a tool for the sport. It's a tool for um, even cognitive um.

Speaker 2: 26:16

You know, like I was just talking to um a random person about archery and I was like no, I was like it's the, it's the mental part of the sport that is the most beneficial to you as a person, that concentration. I was like it's all mental, clearing your head, processing what you're going to do and then doing it and then getting the outcome that you want it. That sport is more beneficial than going out and playing. You know that sport is more beneficial than going out and playing, you know, an hour of football, because you're actually exercising control over your body, your brain, to come up with a you know what you want to accomplish and hitting that bullseye. So I was like it's just so many things that rifles archery, conservation, you know, our community, that provide.

Speaker 2: 27:07

You know, and there's no argument that can be made in my mind. I'm sure there's a lot of people who will argue with me but what would you rather have a kid doing? Would you rather have a kid outside learning about nature, learning about trees, learning about leaves, learning about habitat, learning about leaves, learning about habitat, learning about food supplies for animals, practicing shooting a bow and arrow or shooting a rifle, becoming proficient at something? Or would you rather have them sitting in on a tablet playing a stupid video game for eight hours a day or all summer? Some of these kids I actually feel really bad there's probably the majority of the kids where I live probably never even go outside for the entire summer and it's like what kind of life is that for a young, for a young boy or girl?

Speaker 1: 27:57

yeah, no, it's. It's not the life that that we, as humans should be having at the end of the day. If you look at the human body, we are supposed to be outside, we're supposed to be in. You know the different climate changes and battling the the weather, and you know, honestly, I don't wear shoes as much anymore because you know, at the end, technically, you're supposed to be walking, you know, barefoot.

Speaker 1: 28:25

I'm trying to get back into right. When I wake up, I go outside and I get sunlight and you know I just go right into the sunlight. You know, get fresh air, drink some water and I just sit there and I I kind of like meditate now, you know, and just relax my body, just get back at being outside more and listen, I'm out, we're outside as much as we can. You know as outdoorsmen you are, you know when you have to work, you got to be. You know that's a time when you're usually cooped up or something like that, but you know it starts with early in the morning.

Speaker 1: 28:59

You know getting up, going out. You know Taking advantage of everything that we have, whether's raining, hot, snowy, it doesn't matter. Just get outside. You know you will definitely, definitely, you know, reap the benefits, without a doubt. Just you know, do that for a couple weeks and you will start to see a difference. Um, you know, off of just that whole topic as well, when you, when you move to, you know new york for the first, or the city for the first time, you know, and you is that. Did you know you're going to become a cop right away? Or is that the purpose of you moving there, or you just want?

Speaker 1: 29:41

to move there, and that came after yeah, no, I um.

Speaker 2: 29:49

So my, my grandfather, my life kind of took a drastic turn. My grandfather died when I was 14 I think, and him being the predominant uh role in my life, I went from a life that was completely outdoors, hunting, fishing, all the time with him and then, when he passed, that kind of dried up for me and I had this bad habit and I still do it today If something causes me pain or something hurts me, I completely shut it out and I mean I turn it off. So I think a part of me was too hurt by him passing to go continue hunting and being outside and being part of the outdoors. And I turned to sports and I played football and I wanted to play football and I wanted to be, as you know, as good as I put everything into that and I completely ignored, um, the outdoors. And you know, I wanted to play for college and I got a chance. I got to go down to Mississippi state, um, where I eventually dropped out. I dropped out of college down there. Then I went back home and I was like I don't want to be here, I want to be in the city.

Speaker 2: 31:10

I went to community college down in Nassau County out in Long Island, didn't work out. I dropped out of college there, you know, and then it was like I was like all right, college is not for me and I got to go to work. So I moved, I stayed with a friend in Washington Heights, I got a job, waiting tables, and then I spent like the next three years, uh, waiting tables, kind of just living, you know. Uh, I don't want to say running away, but just living the opposite of the way I was. I grew up and it was, it was, it was good, it was fun. I had, um, the experience of making it on my own, um pulling myself up, you know, taking whatever job I could, um, and then finally, after a couple of years of not going anywhere, just waiting tables, realizing my life's not going anywhere, I have to do something. And a couple more series of events and miscues and adventures that I tried, that didn't work out and I finally said I was like I got to take the test Because at the time I didn't want to go back to school. I was like I'm going to take the test to become a cop and I'll see if I can get on. I was originally. I'm going to take the test to become a cop and I'll see if I can get on. I was originally going to go to get. At the time you needed 60 credits to become a cop, so I applied again now for the third time to go to college and they wouldn't take me anywhere to go to college. But I got lucky. There was a program that said if you had been out of school for I can't remember how many years it was and you didn't have the grades and you know, basically I wasn't getting accepted on admissions. They say you know, you get a fresh start with the uh, with the CUNY, the city university of New York, we'll give you a fresh start. You can start over.

Speaker 2: 32:58

Um, I went to John Jay college, um, and I took to it for the first time and I mean now I'm like, uh, must've been by now 26, 27 years old. And, um, I took to it and I was like wow, I was like this isn't bad, I'm doing pretty good, and I ended up sticking through it and I went around. I went to school year round. I went at night, I went a day, I went during the little, you know, the summer breaks, I went during the winter break and I ended up getting my master's degree and graduating with my master's in three years um, at top of my class. So, uh, it was a big change in my life there, a big wake up that you know what? I better do something with my life. I went back to school, I got it done. I like banged it out, I crushed it.

Speaker 2: 33:51

I worked with the US Marshal Service while I was in college. I was supposed to go with them to continue my career and at the last minute NYPD called me. I had a couple of people that I looked up to at the time that were like you know, listen, man, don't go into the martial service, be a real cop here. And you know, in the city, experience the city actually say you know help people. And I did. And uh, it turned out to be a great 15 year career that I've pushed through.

Speaker 2: 34:21

I ended up getting hurt in a? Um I was working when I retired. I was a detective with the warrant squad, with the violent felony squad we went after if you shot or killed somebody in the Bronx, it was my team that was going to apprehend you if you were on the run. So in other words, we were hunting people that were on the run for murder and shooting people in the Bronx and one of the cases I ended up getting hurt in a fight pulling the guy out of the car.

Speaker 2: 34:50

My spine not that the disc slipped, but if this is my vertebrae on top of the other vertebrae, the one vertebrae slipped backwards and became out of line and put pressure on the nerves, made my arm go numb and they had to end up straightening it back out, uh, putting a box and a plate and four screws into my spine to stabilize it. And uh, at that point they were like you can't be a cop anymore and retired me. So you know, it's just funny how the how life works out. It's just. You know. Now I'm here with my kids giving them. You know pretty much what my grandfather was giving me when I was a kid yeah, no, it's wow.

Speaker 1: 35:39

What, first of all, you know thank you for, for everything that you've done and everything like that. I mean I know I work um with um, I work with with kids thank you and psych and everything like that.

Speaker 1: 35:51

So I I understand with a certain like degree I work in the psych field. Now I I go with you know anywhere from kids that have autism and stuff like that to you know skits to then I just have just violent gang members in in my, on my unit and you know it's. It's an unfortunate thing, but I know, like doing it in the bronx we actually had one, we had one kid from the bronx and he was, he was a tough, tough, he was, he was very serious and it was very about that, that type of lifestyle and everything like that. So you know, just off the small sample of what I've seen, you know, I can only imagine. You know how it was for you and everything like that. But, um, were you, were you hunting at all during this time or you were just full-on, just working?

Speaker 2: 36:44

um, I had. I was full on working most of the time, um, and then when I got, when I got older significantly older, um, probably when I hit 30, my, probably around 30, um, when my life started to calm down again more, you know like so, going through you know, all the survival, trying to figure out what I'm gonna do as a career. You know doing what, what am I gonna be, where am I gonna live? You know, kind of like going through all that and really finding myself as a person. I didn't hunt.

Speaker 2: 37:28

When I became more secure in who I was and more established, it kicked in like, I mean, out of nowhere in the back of my head, was like a clock and it was like okay, time to get back to the person you were, the way you were raised. You know enough of everything you just went through, enough of the life of trying to figure out life, of trying to do it on your own. You're missing this part of your life and you need to get back to it. And and then I did, and I went back and you know it would start out with like, hey, you know a friend, you know a co-worker, lived upstate, had a couple acres.

Speaker 2: 38:09

Hey, can I go, uh, you know, sit and you know, do some hunting in your backyard, and it really went back to a more natural life where it was like, all right, get all this nonsense out of your system now, go, sit down and you get back to it. Get back to what you were raised, doing, get back to, um, what gave you your, your beginning. Now that you're older, maybe you can understand it more, and I did. And you know, um, there was a couple of seasons there when I first got back to it, I didn't, I didn't get anything, I didn't see anything. I just kind of sat there reflecting on, you know, the last 30 years and it was like, yeah, no, I need more of this in my life mentally.

Speaker 1: 38:57

What did that do for you? Because you know, yet again, I work in psych, so a lot of it's mental and I take hunting as a as a. It's a lot of it's mental and it's the best therapy session you're going to get that. You don't have to. I mean, we do. Yeah absolutely. But in a different way. So what?

Speaker 2: 39:14

did it do for you mentally, right? Mentally, it cleared up a lot of nonsense. It cleared up a lot of stress. It cleared up, you know, we were getting to a point where there was some things that worked that I just couldn't control. And you know, and coming from a psychology background and I didn't get to tell you when I, when I graduated from John Jay I ended up graduating with my master's in forensic psychology I did a couple of internships at um. I did an internship at Kirby forensicnsic. I worked in Elmhurst Hospital in Queens for a little while on a juvenile, on an adolescent and juvenile award, and so I know exactly what you're talking about when you say you know on your unit some of the things that you see, and you know that that you take on.

Speaker 2: 40:09

Whenever you're in a field and you work with people, and especially when you work with people with psychological problems and issues, so much of that you take upon yourself and law enforcement too. You see things that people go through and you take it on yourself. You don't process the stress and you don't know how to adequately deal with it or file it away or, you know, compartmentalize it or make sense of it. It's something that can mess you up mentally and it's something that you that can start showing its effects on you and the way you are at home. So when it really got to a point of being a little bit more than I could handle, it became okay, you're stressed out, you're, you're not acting like yourself, put everything down and go go hunt them. And I would, I would take a day off, I would do. You know, if I had a day off, or, uh, on the weekend, I would just like all right, I'm getting up in the morning, I'm taking my rifle or my bow and I'm going out and I'm going out in the woods and that quietness, that therapy that you talked about, it really helps you process and get away from.

Speaker 2: 41:28

You know, especially the stuff that you see every day and you get a. You know especially the stuff that you see every day and you get a chance to say this isn't life, this isn't a complete picture of life, this isn't all that there is in this world. There's so much more. Here's a little taste of it Off in the woods by yourself. You know, just showing you what nature can give you, and I don't think a lot of people understand that. And you know, just showing you what nature can give you. And I don't think a lot of people understand that and you know our community definitely does but a lot of people that if they would, you know, if they have issues and they lived in the city their whole life and they have all these stresses that they deal with. You know, even to go hiking or just go, you know, get on a train and go to some public land, you'd be surprised at what a few minutes in the woods could do for for your mental health.

Speaker 2: 42:16

And it definitely played a big part in me processing a lot of stress and, you know, being comfortable with the stuff that was going on in my life.

Speaker 1: 42:26

Yeah, wow, um, and then another thing that I'm just really curious about. You know, so, when you took your your time to basically figure out who you were and and to grow as a person and you know deal with everything that was going on and you stopped hunting. So when you got back into it, what was the biggest difference from from then? Like, what was the biggest change in the just the hunting world, like, when you came in, were the guns or bows a little different, lighter, what? What was the type of equipment that you were first dealing with to to then what you ended up using when you got back in?

Speaker 2: 43:05

Well, when I was a kid, when I was probably 12, 10 to 12, I got into archery. My mother worked at an archery shop, so it would be a place that I went and hung out a lot and you know, I first learned to shoot a compound bow and then, a couple of years, years into it, I got into to traditional archery and I mean I really took the traditional archery and it's all I did. I have, um, I still have my longbow to this day. And, um, I got into competition shooting, um, you know, with the recurve Um, and then so all that being in my childhood, having that um success at an early age of being able to shoot those um bows, um, it was something that I picked up right away. I was like, oh, I got to get a bow. I found somebody who was selling a bow, used that, picked up a bow and I started shooting again. And, um, you know, I went out with uh, I still have some, you know, family rifles that I went out with just to get out. You know, like all right now I could say I'm going hunting because I got a rifle in my hand, even though I was so more just escaping than I was doing hunting.

Speaker 2: 44:25

I was literally going to, you know, a friend's backyard, walking into the woods behind his house and sitting down. You know, no, no, no, scouting. You know, didn't know what was there and it was really just, it was, uh, those beginning steps of, uh, of uh, you know not I don't want to say a call for help, but of me telling myself, listen, this is where you got to go, just do whatever you got to do to get back into it. You know, find some. I bought some used camo online and I just sat out there. And I sat out there until I was like all right, let me see what's around here, let me start tracking, let me see what, what signs, what animals, and then you know, and then it evolved back into actually being more of a of a active hunter. All right, now we know what's here, let's find out what's here. Let's find out what's here, let's track these animals to see these footprints, let's find out what's coming in and then being. You know, and then you know.

Speaker 2: 45:23

All that leads to the success of actually, you know, harvesting an animal again and then processing again. You know, harvesting an animal again and then processing again. You know doing all that stuff. So it was very much a let me just get back out with what I can and get my mind into it. And then, when I got my mind back into it, archery, you know, and then the therapeutic of archery, of shooting a bow. You know of that physical stress, that mental concentration and that release and that instant gratification of you know hitting a bullseye or grouping or doing what you set out to accomplish and it really just it all builds on itself as a mental exercise in. You know, like you said, in therapy.

Speaker 1: 46:08

Yeah, no, it's the best therapeutic, I love shooting. I think, even if you know, like you said in therapy, yeah, no, it's the best therapeutic, I love shooting. I think, even if you know, gosh forbid I was to not ever go hunting ever again, I think I would stick with archery. I think, regardless, for the rest of my life and that, let's be honest, I don't think that's ever happening. I will find every possible way to hunt. Ever happening, I will find every possible way to hunt. But I think, when you, when you just go out and shoot and you make that perfect shot, you know, and even at your rate, you, you get pumped up. It's just like all right, like you feel good about yourself, it's a win. You know you could be having the lousiest day at work and you, just you go out real quick just to send a few arrows yeah, it's true, it flips your days over I lost you in that last part.

Speaker 2: 47:04

You broke up a little bit, I'm sorry okay, no worries um I don't know what. No, you came in broken up on that question okay, um.

Speaker 1: 47:12

So I basically said you know you could be having the the worst day and you know you head out to the range and you you send a couple arrows down range and it flips your day completely over and you're feeling good about yourself again. You know you get to end your day on a on a positive note because it mentally it just clears your your head and that gets you into a positive state of mind absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 47:42

There's um, um from a psychological standpoint, um, shooting, um, both, you know, rifle and archery. I would say a little bit more archery psychologically because it it takes a, a physical act, so you get the stress of pulling back a heavy, you know poundage, physically performing an act. Then you go into step two of mentally clearing your brain to concentrate on your alignment. Your release everything, pure mental sport. At this point, after you have that your anchor, you clear your head, you take that shot and if you do everything right, you have instant gratification which drives your success. Your endorphins start going off and you're like hey, I just did a physical act, a mental act, and I got exactly what I wanted out of it. And it's that repetition and it's, it's a positive thing because your mind really feeds off of that. The instant gratification of oh, I got that group, I hit right where I wanted to hit, and it's, it's um, it builds up your self-esteem, it builds up your clarity, it builds up, you know, just so many mental aspects of doing a task and instantly knowing a reward for that task. And it's it just. It builds on so many other things and it really is like you said, it's like you can have a terrible day If you can control your mind enough to say let me get out there, let me do a little physical exertion, get it out that stress, that emotional stress, let me clear my brain to get that mental clarity and then boom, instant gratification I completed the task, let's do it again, boom, do it again, boom, do it again. And then you build off of that and it's, you know, like I was just saying, I had that conversation with a guy at one of the stores I was in and he was like archery.

Speaker 2: 49:55

He's like that sounds cool and I was like it's one of the best things for you. And I wish here, where I live, we don't have the archery range. That's closed, we don't have one, that's, you know. You know, the youth alone, I think, would serve just from having a legit archery range here with like 10, 15 lanes where kids could go and they can learn that confidence and they can learn the shoot and they can learn, you know, a little physical stress, little mental control and a little gratification and it could do wonders for children. I mean, it did a lot for me when I was young and I'm sure it's done a lot for a lot of people.

Speaker 1: 50:36

Now quick question Did you, did you have it in school? Cause I know you know there was a time period where Archie was taught in school. Was that something you were able to do in school?

Speaker 2: 50:46

I know that's something I wish they would bring back and I've I have heard had bringing it back yeah, yeah, and when I was doing um, when I was doing, uh, the the hunter business, we suspended it for now, but, uh, one of the organizations that we were supporting was the, uh, the national field um archery association, and they are, they have a big push of getting archery back in the school. That we were supporting was the National Field Archery Association and they have a big push of getting archery back in the school and it's a really good cause to get behind and get in for those kids to learn that discipline and I think it is something that should absolutely marksmanship itself should be in schools and teaching kids how to shoot and teaching them how to shoot rifles and how to shoot bows and and all of that stuff. I mean it is an important thing for children to process, you know, because it's one thing and you can see a difference you may have seen this yourself um, and being in the two different worlds and being in an urban world and being in a rural world. There is, you know, some of these kids in in uh, urban settings. They see guns in movies, in tv every day. They see them in every day life and you know, but they don't see them in person and they it. It's a you know. To them it's this magical thing that's on tv that hits the mark every time and somebody just pulls it out as fast as they can and shoots and it the bullet always goes where it's supposed to and it always does. They grow up with this, either fear of guns or an unhealthy attraction to them because they don't know what they can do.

Speaker 2: 52:38

And in rural life you have kids that grew up like with me. I had a shotgun in my room when I was like 10 years old and you just kind of you knew how to handle it, you know how to respect it, you knew what it was capable of and it was not a mystery. And with my own children, I sat down with my son when he was, I don't know, probably four years old and I distinctly taught him the difference between I was still working at the time and I said this is, you know, this is my pistol for work. This is the time. And I said this is, you know, this is my, my, my pistol for work. This is your toy and one, you know, one is for playing and one is, you know, daddy's tool and one is very dangerous and one is a toy and I started to go through the safe handling of the firearm at a very young age with him and I said this is how you handle the firearm.

Speaker 2: 53:27

This is when you can touch the firearm at a very young age with him. And I said this is how you handle the firearm, this is when you can touch the firearm. This is when you can't touch the firearm. You know and I took away that mystical power that it holds over some kids like, oh yeah, this is so cool. Look, there's john wick thing. And you know, this is what this can do. And I took that away by showing him this is the real thing. There's no, there's no magic behind it. There's no crazy amount of things that's going to happen. There's no, it can't perform miracles. It is no different than this knife in the kitchen drawer and you have to know how to use it and you have to know how to handle it and you have to know how to respect it.

Speaker 2: 54:10

And we would go through the, the, the laws, the rules of firearm safety every night and he never had an inclination. I have safes all over my house, everything gets locked up, but he does not have. I could put out a rifle. I could put out a rifle, I could put out a gun, he won't grab it, he won't touch it, he won't even go.

Speaker 2: 54:32

There's times I told him hey, you want to go shoot, we can go shoot. He was like, no, I'd rather just play with my cap gun today, and he knows that difference. Hey, if, if he gets a hold of this, what's he gonna do? Because he's demonstrated how to handle it properly. Um, he just got his first um bb gun and he's walking around with it like I've never seen somebody.

Speaker 2: 54:58

So like I gotta make sure I don't point at anybody or anything that you know I'm not able. You know like tense, to the point where he's literally paying attention to what, what it actually is that he has in his hand and it's, and for that I'm grateful. You know, and that's the way I think you know, firearm safety should be handled for a lot of kids, and you know. And then there's other kids that you know if they see a rifle, they're going to pick it up and start pointing it all over the room and not know what. And that's not their fault, they just they watch tv. They don't have anybody to teach them what it is yeah, no, and you know I love the fact that.

Speaker 1: 55:40

That's how I was taught too as well. And it's crazy, still to this day I'm, you know, 30 years old. I'm about to turn 31, you know, in the beginning of august. Even if I have a nerf gun, I've never put my finger on on the trigger. Like it's just trained into my brain that when I have my hand on a gun, the finger goes nowhere, even close to the finger. It stays in the same position. I always until you are ready to actually point that weapon down range into to fire. You know, and you know when you are pointing that weapon down range, you better know what you're firing at.

Speaker 1: 56:16

You know you don't just point the gun oh you know, I'm very like even I take people out and I and I teach them and everything like that. But you know, even when, when I'm cleaning guns after I'm shooting, like I'm just so like it's this routine that you just get in your head that it's like OK, I got to make sure everything is clean, you're going to make sure there's gosh forbid. There's no round to do this. Fingers never on the trigger, never pointing it down, like, and I taught my fiance like that.

Speaker 1: 56:43

Everyone in my family on my mom's side of family, as little kids, they're taught the same exact way. I knew where the keys were to my grandfather's safe growing up all throughout my life, just in case if I was home alone and somebody came into the house but guess what? I actually was never, because I was so used to it I didn't have that curiosity. He's not home. Let me go open up the gun safe, take the gun out and start playing with it, like it, like it's an actual toy. You know, because I knew what this thing was. This was not a toy, you know. This is like you said it's a tool. This is what it's meant for.

Speaker 1: 57:22

I'm not curious about it, nothing like that. So you know that's how it needs to be. I think if they started doing that, you know, I think we would be able to get out of this such negative and you know space where we are with guns.

Speaker 2: 57:44

Absolutely yeah, and unfortunately, yeah, I agree, agree, I agree 100. And unfortunately there's so many things that you know that aren't the argument against um firearms and you know the reasoning that they come up with this stuff and it's, it's not honest and it's not. You know, it would be one thing if you know they were really. Oh, you know it's not safe, and this and that. And you know, oh, you know, because of the school shootings and everything else, and we want to get rid of this and, to a point, those arguments aren't honest. They're not honest. And you know, taking guns away from criminals, you know, and or, I'm sorry, the other way around, taking guns away from law abiding citizens and not criminals. You're just not being honest. So it's like we try to fight a lot of these fights on on, uh, on the background. Like you know, this is where we're coming from and we're going to tell you no, you know, we know we train our kids and we train our family members and we know this is the way, this is what is going to happen, this is how people are going to act, you know, and they turn around and you know the counter culture to it and the people who, you know, absolutely just don't want guns, don't like guns. And you know the main, they may think oh, it's because of this, these terrible things, the violence, guns are so violent and in reality they're being used by a government who really just wants to take away that right so that the people can't be free, you know, and can't, you know, stand up to the government. You know, as long as we have the second amendment and the first amendment, the government is really limited what they can do to us. Once we get rid of those two things either one of those two things then the government's going to be a lot more free to exert their control. And I'm telling you as a member of law enforcement, just a few years ago in COVID was my big awakening when, you know I was, I had just gotten injured at the beginning, right before COVID hit is when I had my injury with my spine. At the beginning, right before COVID hit is when I had my injury with my spine and I was out when it really got bad and they locked down. I was home already rehabbing, waiting for surgery and fast forward through that to the end when they came up with the vaccine. And you know, oh, you know, new York City. We're going to mandate. You got to do this, you got to do that. And in my head I'm like who's going to? I was like who's going to enforce that? And then I saw in my own eyes people in my own unit taking that side and being like, oh no, you have to do this. And I'm like, wait a minute, that's not constitutionally correct. And being like, oh no, you have to do this. And I'm like, wait a minute, that's not constitutionally correct. You can't force me to do that.

Speaker 2: 1:00:56

And then seeing people that have authority and power go into this tyrannical mode of you have to do this because we're saying that you have to do it, and it was really eye-opening to me and I was already on my way out at the time and I was like this is not. I was like you know what my fear is now? Or cause. I was like, oh no, you know, we have good law enforcement, everybody's going to do this and we're going to stick up and we're going to do the right thing. And it turns out you can't always depend on people in authority to do the right thing because they're going to do what's best for them.

Speaker 2: 1:01:29

And it was a scary moment for me being on the outside. Now you're threatening, you know, now my job is being threatened, my livelihood's being threatened, all by the same people that just a few months ago I was kicking in the door, the first one through the door, you know, with the shield. You know protecting them or working with them to protect them. Now they're telling me oh, I can't, even, because of this, I can't do my job anymore. It's like, well, wait a minute, now we're getting in scary territory here. So there is, and there is a good reason to fear your government to a point where you can't just be all ideological and be like, oh no, the government's always going to look out for us, always going to take care of us.

Speaker 2: 1:02:12

We clearly see that that is not the case and you know you have to be reliant, you have to be self-sufficient and you have to be skeptical of a lot of things that people you know and that they push on you. And for what reasons? Why are they pushing these things on us? Why and it's like and another moment to talk about clarity was the Uvalde shooting in Texas, and I remember specifically, being a member of law enforcement. I couldn't believe that it even happened, being a member of law enforcement, I couldn't believe that it even happened. I was like I literally I was like this is not right, cause I know that every department in the United States get the same training on active shooters. We all get the same training. It's federally mandated. Everybody has to take it.

Speaker 2: 1:03:03

They put us through you know these situations and they teach you basically what the Tennessee shooting reaction, what the reaction of the police officers in Tennessee were. This is how they train you. They train you to go in and confront the threat as soon as possible and the number one priority is to stop the killing. And that doesn't mean waiting for backup. It doesn't mean waiting on the back, another side of the door. It means you're going in. There are young children in danger. You're there. You have a responsibility to try to protect and save them and they drilled that in us and we would run through this school. You know they would be like all right, you're in your car. You get the call All right, jump out, run into the room. This is how you clear this room. This is how you keep moving. And they taught us how to tactically clear and move. Clear and move as fast as we could. And the number one time you're running towards those gunshots.

Speaker 2: 1:03:56

You're running towards those gunshots and when Yuvalde happened and they were like, oh, they just sat on the other side of the door and I was just, I was in disbelief and I was, I was emotional to the point where it was, it was bothering me because I was like I know this is not the way we're trained, I know this is not the way we're supposed to respond. Why did this happen? And it it really bothered me, um, to a point that we had gotten to that point where there was people that would be like, oh no, we didn't get the okay or we didn't, we're waiting for this. We were like in my head, I'm like you're waiting for what you're trained you, you have, you know, shooting, you have scenarios, you have reactions that you've been trained to do and I get it. It's a scary thing.

Speaker 2: 1:04:46

But at the same time, you know, like I was getting emotional just being around my kids when that happened, because I'm like there is no way in the world and I told my son. I told my son, I said listen, if something happens like that, and I'm, you know, at the time I was working and I said I want you to understand something. And I told my wife and I told my son my daughter wasn't born yet and I said, if God forbid that happens here and I'm there. I was like you will. You will either bury me, a hero, or because there's no way that you will live with me as a coward. And I told him specifically. I said I will die before I have to live a life where I'm going to regret that children died because of my inaction. I was like it's just, that's the way I am. I was like I will not have you live with that person as your father.

Speaker 2: 1:05:45

If you, if something went off like that and I didn't take action and I didn't save and a number, a huge number of kids died because I was too afraid to go forward, I was like I'd rather have you bury me, knowing that I tried, than to live with me knowing that I didn't. And and I told them and I made that very clear to them in the beginning, and I said that's just the way I am. I was like if something happens and you guys are around, I was like I'm going to tell you you know, stick close to your mom, get down, take cover, go to the get out of the area, I was like, but 90 times, 90% of the time, I was like I will not be there with you. I will be trying to do what I have to do and I don't, I don't.

Speaker 2: 1:06:27

I don't want to say that to sound tough, I don't want to say I don't want to say it to be like, oh you know, this guy's just talking, he's being macho or not. But these, these instances and I have my own little forms of PTSD that I deal with from different events but these instances that happen as a society, and what we've gotten away from too is also I have to teach, teach my, my son, that at the end of the day, he's a man, he is there to protect his mother and his sister and his family, and he needs to know that when he grows up someday, when he's a man, he's going to have to protect his children. It's not going to be, oh, you know, oh God, we're in trouble, call the cops and let's wait for the cops. No, we can't live in a society like that. You have to protect your family and you know, you know. I'm sorry to go off on a rant like that, but you know, it's just one of those things.

Speaker 2: 1:07:25

That is eye opening, yeah, it's like. It's like I can't believe some of the stuff that is going on in this world is happening and people are allowing it to happen. And you know, and it goes back to you know, teaching our kids these things and how to live and how to be you know a man, how to be a woman, what is expected of you. You know, and it's like you know, and it's like you know you've all the was was one of those things that just they really hurt to see that people, my own profession, that I would stick up for 99 times out of you know a hundred, just be like, wait what you were waiting for, a key, you know, and it's just.

Speaker 2: 1:08:10

It really anyway, it's just, it's one of those things, the point being that is like we have to be able to take care of ourselves. We have to be able to protect. We have to be able to be self, you know, reliant. We have to be able to have our own food. We have to be able to be self, you know, reliant. We have to be able to have our own food. We have to be able to hunt. We have to be able to, because, at the end of the day. I think in the last 20 years, the institutions have proven that they cannot take care of us and they will not take care of us when they, when we need it.

Speaker 1: 1:08:47

Yeah, no, listen, I love that, you know I, when I'm, when we're doing a podcast, I love it when people go, excuse me, go on rants and everything like that. Like that is what. This is what you're passionate about, you. This is the insight, this is how you feel, and I and I agree with you. You know what it's.

Speaker 1: 1:09:07

It's one of those cases you see now, lately in this world, like every day, it's like, oh my God, I can't believe this happened. I can't believe you know this is going on and things like that. And you know another one that I'm very curious to for, to hear your, your thoughts about, which you know the most recent. You know, everyone now is going to remember where they were when they, when they heard about, you know, the assassination attempt on on Trump's life. You know, I was sitting in a bar and I couldn't. I couldn't believe it, and then it was all over the news. So you know what? What was the first thing that that ran through your mind, especially as a law enforcement and a, you know, a detective, and everything like that? Like, what is the first thing that ran through your mind during this, this whole entire situation?

Speaker 2: 1:09:54

sadly, I would say. The first thing that went through my mind was I wasn't, you know, I wasn't surprised that it happened. I think, kind of, if you've been paying attention to, you know what's going on politically and you know the kind of state of affairs that we've been in recently, um, I think it's been building towards something like this. I'm not surprised that it did happen. I um, um, my immediate afterthought of when it happened and that he was still alive was that God had intervened and you know, is showing, you know, I mean that's, you know, I talk about Jesus and God quite a bit because there's been quite a bit of experiences in my career where I know what just happened wasn't possible without his intervention. Like I can say, I tell my wife and I tell my children I have seen God and I've seen, I have seen Jesus walk next to me and for whatever reason, and not physically see him, but to know that he was there with me in situations that I got out of or that went smoothly, by no other reason than by the grace of God, and to know, you know, like I told him I said, there's a point of humility that you have to reach and I think when you do a job like law enforcement or you do something that's inherently dangerous and you, you have a real fight between good and evil. And I tell my son I was like you know, I was like this is the old stuff you know, grandma will tell you. You know, there is truly a fight between good and evil raging in this world and it always has been, and there's a sense of humility where I've always said I'm not that good, there was no way I should have walked out of there the way I did. I'm not that good as a detective, I'm not that good as tactically, I'm not that good that we just made it through that incident the way we did, even when I got hurt.

Speaker 2: 1:12:17

It was the most random thing. We were in a car pursuit. I jumped out of the car. I tried to break the window out of the driver. I hitting the driver, uh, the driver's window, with, uh, my ass. I'm hitting with my gun. I'm trying to break the window to get him out where. It's a crazy pursuit. He ends up taking off. My hands are bloody, broken, blood coming out from the pressure. I was hitting the window. My team continues on the pursuit, leaves me, uh, on foot. Now, by all accounts, I'm out of the, I'm out of the chase.

Speaker 2: 1:12:55

I run back to the main street. I flag down the first cop car I can find. I get in that car. We start circling trying to find them. We, you know. Now I don't know where my team is.

Speaker 2: 1:13:04

Now I'm like I got to get to my team, I got to get to my team, can't find them. The driver of that car Can't find them. The driver of that car is like let's just pull over here, let's calm down. Everything's going crazy. It was over the radio. They had all kinds of things going on. I was like no, I'm not calming down.

Speaker 2: 1:13:18

I run into the next police car I see driving around. I drive into that police car. I get into that. Backseat of that car they're circling around. Backseat of that car they're circling around. By the grace of God.

Speaker 2: 1:13:34

I see the car up ahead on the highway where traffic had built up. I get out of the car and I started running. This time I know I was like I got to break that window. I get my ass out and I hit that window as hard as I could. This is my second chance. Why was I given a second chance? How did I end up getting left behind by my team, getting into another car, not getting out of that car, getting into a second car, finding the guy that we were looking for, being able to get that second chance to break that window and pull him out of that car and apprehend him, and I'm like I'm not that good.

Speaker 2: 1:14:05

Jesus was walking beside me telling me to listen, to pay attention to the signs he was he was showing at me. And and that's just one case, there's many cases I've been on where I can been like no way I should have found this person, no way that this should have went down as smoothly as it did. And you know and I always tell my son I was like you got to be humble. You have to know that not everything is due to your greatness or your skill. There is a divine intervention that's always going around around us and I think you have to be open and I think that's something our community, the hunting community, has always been more attuned to is what's going on around us, because that's what our community is based on. It's based on being in, in nature and listening to what's going on.

Speaker 2: 1:14:57

And you know, and it's like the assassination attempt same thing, there was more at play than you know. That millisecond that he turns his head, that makes the difference between, you know, was that god just like? Hey, let me look over here, for whatever reason, turn my head that it clears my whole back of my skull from being, you know, shot to just my ear being nicked? I mean and this is one of the things I read the other day is that God is showing himself to the world again. And these acts and these things that happen, and you know, and I think it's true, I think people are turning to Jesus and they're turning to God and they're turning to an actual realization that there's more going on in this world right now than just our own. You know, whatever man made problems that we've made for ourselves perfectly said.

Speaker 1: 1:15:56

Yeah, I, I agree, and you know it's the more you look at it. Yeah, I, I will like I went. I went to catholic school. I've, you know, like you said, you know I always go out before I go hunter, when I'm up in the stand and everything, I always say a prayer and everything like that. I'm not the most, definitely not the most religious person out there, but I definitely do believe in in that, like there, there is a god and everything like that. And you know things happen for a reason and you know he, he, by his good gracious, you know these things happen. You know, and there's no other way like you could really explain it, like what are always, what are the odds, what are the chances of that happening? You know, I mean yeah, absolutely it's like you know.

Speaker 2: 1:16:38

And then, yeah, and, and the difference that millisecond you know made in what's going on in our world is. It's insane that that second you know is going to be a defining second of where you know reality could have went this way or reality could go this way, and I mean we'll see where it goes. But you know, and then you know it from a law enforcement point of view, that whole situation is very frustrating because I know I have a good friend, you know that I have a good friend and I know you know too, that's. You know we have active snipers in the NYPD and you know, just from a situational awareness, to know, looking at the map, that is your only elevated threat is that location. That's. You know. You know I don't want to. You know second guess anything that's going on, or you know people's abilities or anything. But if you know that's your primary um, you know that's your primary uh, what do you? You know that's your weakest link in your protection, where you could be attacked, you know. Then you know, and to get off eight shots before combating, that is just. You know it's, it's not good and you know.

Speaker 2: 1:18:08

You know things happen the way they do for a reason and you know I don't want to bad mouth anybody or anything, but you know it it was a failure and it should be classified and reviewed as a failure. And that's the only way you're going to learn to go through these things and to say you know, we failed here, what can we do? That's different, you know, and that's another important aspect of life is admitting when you failed and when you messed up. You know if you're going to go on and say, you know, oh, we're not going to do anything different, this is you know that that that strategy we had. You know it's like playing a football game you got, you got destroyed. You know 30 to nothing.

Speaker 2: 1:18:53

And you're going to go into the next game saying, oh, no, no, no, I'm going to have the same exact game plan I did in the last one. That's game. Saying oh, no, no, no, I'm gonna have the same exact game plan I did in the last one. That's not, that's not reality and that's not um, you know that's not the way it should be and nobody should think like that. You know, as a hunter, you're in the field, you blow a hunt. You're gonna say, all right, I'm just gonna do the same damn thing again. No, I'm gonna change my tactic and I'm gonna learn from the mistakes I did last time and you, you know, god, you know. This is all I got to say is thank God, the mistake didn't.

Speaker 2: 1:19:24

You know, unfortunately, you know, one person lost his life and you know very sad story with him and you know his family. You know and that should be remembered and that should be something that is talked about. Um with the, you know, with that day and you know he should not be forgotten either. You know, you know, civil servant firefighter protecting his wife and his daughter. Um, you know, is no longer with us because, you know, security fail.

Speaker 1: 1:19:58

Yeah, no, I, I agree with you on that as well. You know, randy, we're gonna. I got a few more quick questions for you. I mean, first of all, this has been one of the most interesting episodes we've done in a while. I mean, we, we really only hit like one topic and and that's about it. And you know, I, actually I, I absolutely loved it. You know, this was this was definitely something different, and I definitely appreciate it. That definitely means that there does have to be a part two coming in in the future, without a doubt, since we have still so much more to get into.

Speaker 1: 1:20:33

But you know, the biggest question for every new person that joins this podcast is what is your dream hunt? If you could go on your dream hunt for two weeks, what animal would it be and where would it be?

Speaker 2: 1:20:54

All right. Well, I'm going to start off with before I give you my answer, because it's a little complex answer, and I'll give you the general dream. Let's just throw it out there. I would love to hunt a red stag in either New Zealand or Scotland or Argentina, in either New Zealand or Scotland and or Argentina. But the reality of that dream I'm gonna give you my. You know, that's the, the dream dream answer. The reality of my dream is what I would really like be.

Speaker 2: 1:21:32

A dream that I think is obtainable is that when my son gets older, I would like to take him out to Idaho, to Idaho to like the, uh, the Sawtooth mountains and do a bear hunt with him. Uh, like, you know, backpacking for like a week or two and, uh, do a hunt with him. That is my, my dream, that's my goal when he gets older as a teenager is to accomplish that. But you know, like, when you say dream hunt and you go right off, you know like, oh, something that's never going to happen, yeah, sure you know, let me do a red stag in Scotland or Argentina. The likelihood of ever having of of that happening is very thin. But um, my, uh, my goal and dream that I'm working at is taking him to do an Idaho bear hunt.

Speaker 1: 1:22:23

Love that, love, love that one.

Speaker 2: 1:22:29

Non-typical or typical white town.

Speaker 1: 1:22:37

Non-typical.

Speaker 2: 1:22:43

Are you a? Are you a big snack guy in the woods? Uh, not really, but I always have my peanut butter and jelly sandwich all right.

Speaker 1: 1:22:49

So the question was what? What is your go-to snack in the woods? I'll just put pb and j down for you. Um, pb and j in a cup of coffee. Um, if you could, you know, hunt one week out of the year. What would you? What dates would you pick?

Speaker 2: 1:23:13

oh, that's a good one. Um, I'm a little torn man. The rut is always amazing, but I love getting in that early season, real early October um, when everything is still calm and patternable. Uh, I would definitely say the first or second week of October um is one of my favorites, gotcha.

Speaker 1: 1:23:43

Yeah, no, it's tough. That one's always a tough one. I think I change my answer every single time I have a new guest on, when they say something that I didn't think of before and everything like that. So my answers are always changing. I hope no one, if I ever go on you know, when I go on on people's podcasts, I hope they don't ask me that question, because I would never know. Um, if you could get sponsored by one company, what would it be?

Speaker 2: 1:24:12

um well, I'm fortunate enough, um that I have uh been sponsored by Cryptek and I'm proud to be a part of their legion and their story on their company Butch Whiting's story as a helicopter pilot and how he came up with the pattern and how he tested in the battlefield from a range, from actually putting camo to use from an elevated position in a helicopter, what you can see on the ground and how well that camo pattern disperses, and the fact that they're probably the largest family-owned camouflage company probably in the world. I know, in america they definitely are, um, you know, and being an american company, being a family company, they are uh really awesome. I get to speak to uh kylie whiting, uh his daughter, um every once in a while through email on different stuff that they have going on and they are they're just an amazing company and they really have uh great values and I'm just I'm really happy to be be affiliated with them and and what they produce and the products they put out and and what they stand for am for Gotcha.

Speaker 1: 1:25:38

Um, if you can move to any state to hunt, what state are you picking?

Speaker 2: 1:25:47

Oh man, you know this is something that always goes through my mind. Um, you know because you think about where we live over here on the East coast and it's like New York's hunting season is very especially for a bow is very generous. I mean, you're hunting almost from the beginning of September to, if you go to long Island, to the end of January.

Speaker 1: 1:26:13

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:26:14

And it's, it's. It's pretty staggering amount of time that you have to hunt and I start, you know, and then you know I talked to these other. It's like, yeah, I'd love to go to Idaho, and they're talking about well, you gotta get in a lottery to get this tag and that tag. And you know, in New York it's like I just get my, I get my deer tags, I get my, my doe management, you know my deer management tags for the does. I get black bear tag, I get turkey tags, I get everything right there's. You know, there's no lottery. And and this year actually, I'm doing my first new jersey bear hunt, um, which I'm excited about, um, so I'll be crossing over the border to, uh, hopefully get some success going on over there oh man, that that's gonna.

Speaker 1: 1:26:56

I can't wait to see that. I mean, I love black bear hunting. It's one of my favorite things to do. Um, and over here we got tons and tons of black bear that you're gonna, that you're gonna run into. Um, yeah, I agree with you on that. Like, uh, you know I don't want to keep it too long with with this, but I'm going to agree.

Speaker 2: 1:27:13

Like, being on the East coast, we're blessed, you know you, we're blessed, you know you, um, we get very long, especially for bowhungers, and maybe not be the same. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think, like what we've touched on the whole, the whole conversation, there's such an element like, yeah, you know, it's colorado, montana, it's beautiful, it's so. You know, idaho. I want to go, I want to do these things. But from what we've been talking about and I would say probably a theme of this conversation we've had is the, the, the therapy, the mental aspect of being able to get out in the woods and go and clear your mind and and enjoy hunting. What they offer us here is really, you know, it's a lot. I mean, we have all of made for Turkey. We have, you know, early bear in September. We have early. I mean, if they give us a spring bear season over here, that would just be, you know, icing on the cake.

Speaker 1: 1:28:18

That'd be amazing. That that would. That would be amazing. I think I'll be where I'm actually scouting upstate New York with with Frank on Friday Cause I think we're going to get on on that early season. No idea what area, no idea. It's somewhere close to like 10 minutes from his house. I think he lives on that, that border, so I'm not 100 sure. Uh, when I let, when I find out, I'll definitely let you know. Um, but um, I got, I got one, two more for you, um, you know one is is probably like everyone's favorite one to to talk about, um, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:28:58

So I always give a scenario if you could hunt with with one person, now I do a family member, um, and then I also do like somebody who's famous, or something like that, and it doesn't matter what time frame they're from, or anything like that. Um, you know, whether alive, dead, what, what I know, you know what are you picking it. You know, for your family I'll actually give you two, because I imagine one would be one's going to be your son, like you said, uh, idaho, but I'd imagine also your grandfather too, if you, if you could yes, yep, you hit it right on the right, on the head, yep cool, cool yeah I figured that I.

Speaker 1: 1:29:39

I definitely figured that what would be um what would be I?

Speaker 2: 1:29:41

guess your famous person my famous person would be um remy warren ah, okay, yeah, yeah, good one definitely yeah, we've got him a few times um

Speaker 2: 1:29:54

few people, but you know like, but you know, like, if you could do, yeah, I listened to him quite a bit. Uh, his podcast, uh, cool story, uh with with Remy Warren. And something I'll never forget and I'm sure my son I'll never forget, was a couple of years back. Um, I was putting my son to bed. We were reading, like those little hunting Um, I don't know if you've seen them, like the little hunting books, where it's like you know they're made for like three, four year olds and you know, talking about going on a hunt or going fishing.

Speaker 2: 1:30:27

And I was putting him to bed and I had my phone on, I was listening. We were listening to, um, a podcast, uh, about hunting. We were listening to the to remy warren's podcast and, um, we went over to his instagram real quick and I'm like, look, you know, look at he, he shot, you know, he got this beautiful, uh, elk or whatever it was, and I'm showing him. He's like that's super cool and and I was like why don't you leave a comment or send him a message? I was like you could just put it right on here on instagram and he goes um, and I'll never forget it was um, it was a post or a reel about getting ready to go on his next hunt, that he was going on and I think it was mule deer and my son left a voice comment saying you know, hey, good luck on your hunt, I hope you get a big one.

Speaker 2: 1:31:19

And within like 15 minutes my son got a response from Remy Warren, a voice message saying thanks, buddy, I'll try my best. And it was just like that was awesome. I was like that's, that was so cool. Thank you for doing that. My son loved it and you know that's something that we'll always, we'll always remember. Loved it, and you know that's something that we'll always we'll always remember.

Speaker 1: 1:31:39

Now that that's amazing. You know that. That that's definitely that's kind of what, like you know, not saying if, if I was ever to get somewhere like I just want to be someone who who answers Instagrams or stuff like that, cause you'll, you'll, you'll DM or email or what whatever these guys and they just don't answer. They have that automated answer and everything like that. Like I think it's especially when you're looking for for the younger generation, everything like that it means a lot like that could really there be. The all man like that could really set a kid where it's like that's my, my idol, that's someone who I really want to look and change somebody's life around right and what better you know and what better role model you know then you have.

Speaker 2: 1:32:31

You know, like you have pop culture and you have so many role models that are really you know I'm not saying that they're false role models, but they might not be the best role model to look up to and you get somebody like that. And you know, ever since then, my son it's funny I, you know, we live in the suburbs here in Westchester and he goes to school and his school projects have always been. You know, he wrote a book on how to go hunting, he wrote a book on how to go fishing and it's like, you know, to a point I almost feel, um, you know, I almost feel bad for him in a way, that he's so alone in his class because none of his classmates have any experience with any of this and that he kind of shares this on his own. But at the same time, I also feel happy for him that he gets to be this different kid than everybody else and he gets to have something that's unique to him and to cherish.

Speaker 2: 1:33:32

And you know, and it's that, it's that father role where you want the best for your kids and you want them to fit in and you want you know, you kind of want the best of both worlds for them and you want to give them everything. But you know, and it definitely outweighs the fact that he's getting this experience and he's getting to talk to people, you know, like that message, and he gets to relate and go oh, you know, you know, my dad hunts and I go hunting with him and all his classmates are like wow, hunting with him, and all his classmates are like wow, you know, what is that? Like, you know, and it's something you know, it's something that's unique to him and I I'm glad he gets that experience yeah, no, I.

Speaker 1: 1:34:13

I would definitely say, like when you're, when you're not surrounded by people who do what we do, they just gravitate to that. They're so interested because it's so. They only see it really in movies. And it's so fake in movies, I mean, it's so unrealistic, you know, and it's the way that they portray hunters and stuff like that in movies and shows. It's ridiculous, right where, like same thing at work. I'm like, yeah, no, it's nothing like that at all.

Speaker 1: 1:34:39

But the kids are so invested in my stories that, like they want to go, like, hey, can we is, how do we do this? I go listen, this is how you do it. You know it's tough because I have this patient. Like you know, I can't just give them my information like, hey, you know you could text me or or whatever outside of here and I could take you hunting. I can't do that because you know you're my patient. So I have to be like listen, this is how you do it. You know, if you look up the rule, you know you got to do this, do that.

Speaker 1: 1:35:11

Look at it, you know, and like, hey, listen, I say, if you do find me right, I do have guys that can take you, that can take you out, that can show you the ropes. You know, I I actually have to wait for, like my patients to be, I think, like 21 or something like that, like until I can actually like would be able to actually like take one of them out hunting, because of just like the whole, like it's a huge mess that I don't want to get into. So you, you know I don't want to, you know, deal with any of that BS or anything like that. So, like, I tell them, listen, I wish I could, but you know, if you do find the company page or something, I got people that would gladly show you the ropes of, of how to get into hunting and everything like that.

Speaker 1: 1:35:56

Um, randy, I I gotta say this was absolutely incredible. Um, you know any any last words from you? Uh, we are definitely hitting with the part, part two, without a doubt, and we're gonna dive deeper into you know, all all these other things absolutely.

Speaker 2: 1:36:17

Um, it was a pleasure, man. Thank you for having me. It was a great conversation. Um, yeah, we got so much more that we could talk about. Um, I don't know, man, you might have just thrown out there an idea for a not-for-profit that might be. You know pretty good here in new york man, your background in psychology, my background in psychology and law enforcement. Maybe we could help some kids, maybe we can get something put together.

Speaker 1: 1:36:42

Yeah, no, definitely.

Speaker 2: 1:36:43

Maybe that's something we can explore. I've been wanting to explore how we can actually bring you know, archery and hunting more into you know this suburban world that we're in, because I think I honestly think that there are there's a need for it. I think there's a even a want for it, for you know even archery, um, what it can do for kids after school, summer programs. You know something to get into that's. You know more healthy, more stimulating, more mental control, um, you know there's just I really think that there's a place for it in our community, in our society, and you know where it's lacking and you know, I think people like you, you know that are putting out the right message and putting out you know the positive spin, this lifestyle that we live, and you know not just the weekend warriors, but you know an spin, this lifestyle that we live, and you know not just the, the weekend warriors, but you know an actual lifestyle where you know you can live a life and you can live a happy life and you can be in control, and you know, and you could do all these things and be successful and, um, you know, I think that's, I think that's where we're needed and I think that's where a lot of this is going to go. I think the food aspect to it is going to be, you know, I mean, that's already been proven to be a big part of it. You know, when Meat Eater came out, it was the mixing of the food with the hunting to show the, you know, the access to our food, what kind of food we're eating. You know, and I think that was the big draw and it brought in a lot of non-hunters to that show and to that, you know, into this community and I think it's going to continue. I think we're going to see more people get into this lifestyle, and you know, and for people that want to get into this lifestyle and you know, and and for people that want to get into this lifestyle, I would just say, you know, it's not, it doesn't have to be that you were raised or you had somebody take you. There is so many opportunities out there to go and to hunt and to learn and, you know, and to not be afraid of it. It's just something new. You know, when I was a kid, I had a family friend that lived in Harlem. That came, they, you know, they came to my grandfather's property and they hunted every year and you know they were like family to me and it was just that they went, they met, you know, I don't know how they met my grandfather and him, I don't know how they became friends, but it was just that he went and they became friends and then him and his son hunted, you know, the same property that me and my grandfather hunted for years, and there's opportunities for people in urban areas just to get out, not to be afraid. I mean, I've heard other podcasts where they talk about, oh, you know, I thought of this. I've heard other podcasts where they talk about, oh, you know, I've thought of this.

Speaker 2: 1:40:03

And, you know, like going to knock on random people's doors and, you know, cultureating and welcoming to you Especially, you know, and I witnessed it in the 80s and 90s where, you know people would come up from the city and just didn't know and they were like, yeah, no, come on, We'll definitely. And it's a respect thing too. You come respectful and people are going to show you. You know, I told my son I was like you, give the most amount of respect to everybody that you meet, because nobody wants to teach somebody that thinks they know it all. They want to teach kids that are learning to, that are willing to learn and are respectful and humble. And that's when you're going to get the most out of people, because they're going to want to teach you. When they see that respect, that humility, that humbleness, they're going to want to give you more than the person. That goes. All right, you know how to do this.

Speaker 1: 1:40:45

Okay, go ahead, go do it yeah, we listen perfectly, said we will definitely talk, because that's something I've been very interested in, trying to figure out how I can do something like this as well, because yet again know it is something that's extremely important and there's kids that are just so much less fortunate than you know that I was and that the rest of us and I would love to get yet again as many, and doesn't matter the background. You know, hunting is for literally everyone black, white, spanish, male, female, whatever you are. This is, this is what we all have, all have to do and have to connect. You know this is not just a white person's thing, this isn't just a.

Speaker 1: 1:41:24

You know, some people say, oh, you know, you know, yet to be white and from the south or something like no, that's, that's not, that's not. It like it's, it's for everyone, all over the place. And you look at the rest of the world, most of the rest of the countries, they hunt for a living, they eat what they. You know what they can you know, they grow their crops, everything like that.

Speaker 1: 1:41:43

So, um, we'll, we'll definitely talk um some more about this and you know we'll definitely go back and forth and come up with with something for sure. But, um, you know, yet again, I I just want to say thank you so much for for coming on and everyone you know, make sure if you're not following him already, make sure you go follow him. The links are going to be down in the description below. You know, check it out. They're doing some great things over there. I know. You know, when you get back on the nonprofits and everything like that, you know, definitely let us know right away so we can let everyone out there know and we can contribute every way that we possibly can and everyone. I hope you guys enjoyed this episode and we'll see you guys next time.