Speaker 1: 0:00

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Speaker 2: 1:06

I'm Frank.

Speaker 1: 1:07

Masico, and today we have on the show Brett Boven from Whitetail Advantage. Welcome to the show.

Speaker 3: 1:13

Hey, thanks for having me on, guys.

Speaker 1: 1:17

It's about time we can finally get the schedules lined up. Yeah no, we were supposed to do this before. You know, things get crazy, you. Adulting is not is not the easiest thing in the world. It's very time consuming, but it is absolutely a pleasure to to finally fit you on and get you in. And you know, the cool thing too is I'll also be on your uh show pretty, pretty shortly as well, too, so looking forward forward to that as well yeah, I think.

Speaker 3: 1:43

Uh, july 29th, monday yeah, yeah, yeah, and looking forward to that man, I got andrew coming on the show tuesday, so he's been jacked for that show as well yeah, yeah, yeah, andrew, yeah, some of that we've.

Speaker 1: 1:55

You know we've done a lot of hunting with and stuff and stuff like that great, great guy you know knows his, knows his stuff. So I'm looking forward to listening to that one. But, um brett, why don't you real quick run us a a quick backstory on on everything about yourself?

Speaker 3: 2:11

give the listeners out there a little bit about yourself oh man, first off I gotta say thanks for letting me come on your show again. My guys, I really appreciate it and do it. It's a little weird being the one asked all the questions now, because I have my own show being all right now. I kind of get to sit back, relax and stuff like that that's exactly what I always say when I'm on somebody.

Speaker 1: 2:32

I'm like it's so nice just not having to come up with things to say and just be like, okay, like they're gonna ask me the questions, let me just kick my feet up and you know, actually not have to be a host, right, anyway?

Speaker 3: 2:47

but yeah, my name is brett bovin. Um, I've been hunting. This is going to be my believe, my 18th year hunting. I'm going into, uh run my own show called white tail. Advantage grew up here in the state of michigan my entire life, born and bred here. Uh, got my match, bachelor's degree from western michigan university in criminal justice and minor in sociology. I was a cop for seven years. Uh, unfortunately I had to give that up due to some things that I've personally went through. Being a cop these days kind of a tough thing to go through, so still battling those demons, but I got hunting to look forward to each and every year. I got two kids. Now I got my daughter that's going to be she'll be four november. My son just turned one last april I mean a couple months ago and got a beautiful wife I've been married to for five years, I believe I think we're going on year five in october or year six. So I'm not going to show her this episode because I always learn a little higher exactly that is.

Speaker 1: 3:52

That's good advice. I'm gonna need to take that down when, uh, once I get married, I'm gonna have to start using that one. Um brett, so you know, being a michigan guy, what was it like growing up in Michigan, as you know, in the outdoors and everything like that. You always hear about Michigan and I think what it has, I think, is the first or second maybe behind PA, with like the most hunters or something like that. So I know it's a. It's a pretty big hunting and fishing state, like it's just all around outdoors and state.

Speaker 3: 4:24

Yeah we were number one for most hunters per square mile for a long time and then recently I think two years ago, I think pennsylvania officially took that over and hunting in the state of michigan. I hunt on private land. I don't. I don't go on public, so I have the opportunity to hunt on private land, so I'm very grateful for that. But go on public, so I have the opportunity to hunt on private land. So I'm very grateful for that.

Speaker 3: 4:46

But it's just very pressured here and no matter where you go, it seems like you can turn your head and you're going to see another hunter and I strongly feel like I mean you hear it everywhere, but I feel like Michigan kind of created a where it's Browns down and you got deer like let's talk about bucks for a second. Uh, you see a two-year-old buck acting like an eight-year-old buck. The deer here. They're very smart for the young age that they are, because they have to not just battle the elements of weather and and food and stuff like that, but also have to deal with predators, so coyotes at a young age. And then you have hunters on top of it. So people nowadays it just seems like they're just going to shoot whatever they want, and it's very tough to see you get a deer to a certain age, if we want to talk about that. But hunting in the state of michigan, especially when it comes to our regulations, it's very. They don't care what we have to say as hunters.

Speaker 1: 5:47

Basically, if I'll put it that way, now I, I, I think I understand that it's. It's kind of the same thing here, I would say, in new jersey, obviously not on the same type of level, because I think what I think this was a question in our, in our um, in our game night, um, I think only one percent of new jersey, like hunts or something like that, um, yeah, so yeah, so it's it's completely different from from what you guys are dealing with.

Speaker 1: 6:14

But you know what I would definitely love to talk more about. You know the growth of your bucks, because you always hear that it's always just so low because if it's brown, it's down. I feel like when you have that many hunters like michigan npa, you get that a lot. Now there could definitely be big bucks and I I don't. You know that's what we're not saying. But majority, you know, and I think this is a pretty known statistic of the bucks taken in, both of those states are usually on the smaller side yeah, michigan.

Speaker 3: 6:49

Actually I pulled it up because I was curious myself. Last year, two thousand seven and four 274,055 deer were taken last year. That's 29,000 less than what was taken in 2022. So our numbers are down and our our hunting seasons are. Our numbers are going down and the population is going down.

Speaker 3: 7:12

When I talk about hunters trying to get out in the field, the problem is the people that are still out there going out hunting. They're shooting whatever they can and they don't care about antler size, and I'm not saying that's a bad thing because most people out here in michigan they just want to get meat in the freezer. That's basically all it is michigan. We don't. It's very weird when I when I say weird, I mean the up. It's very scarce. You're not going to see a lot of deer get up to like a 145 class because it's just there's not a lot of food up there. When I talk about food, I'm talking about like crops, stuff like that. The northern part of michigan it's very pine driven, so they're eating a lot of berries. When you move down to the southern part of michigan, you got more opportunity to see those giant deer. However, you just don't see them get to that size only because they're shooting them at such a young age yeah, I mean that makes you know absolutely complete sense, but it we're also where.

Speaker 1: 8:17

Are you worried about that drop off in in numbers, like you know, I think, everyone in general. You look at around the whole entire state, there's usually a big drop off, but you know, does how much does that contribute to? You know? Maybe you know the weather, the lack of resources, you know the lack of people having the time or the money to get out, to get out, and maybe also the chances of you know just the buck numbers just not being there, you know, or the the age class being there, so some people just like, ah, like we're not going to go hunt michigan I think the big reason like I'm are you asking, like if I'm concerned about it?

Speaker 1: 9:04

yeah, you know what I I would like asking, like if I'm concerned about it. Yeah, you know what I would like to know if you're concerned about it.

Speaker 3: 9:08

Yeah, I'm concerned mainly the fact of they, the state of michigan, they're trying to do all these things to get new hunters out in the field, and I get that, but I feel like they're doing it in the wrong way. For instance, I think they need to put more archery, school sports, whatever into schools and let more of it be of more of a known thing. But I also see the problem of I say, all the time on my show you get kids these days. They're so focused on video games and Tik TOK and these all this crap and they don't want to go out in the field. But then when they see these these videos they'll might see a guy shoot a 180 inch deer and it's like, oh great, then I'm gonna go out hunting and I don't see a deer for a whole fucking two weeks or whatever. Then they get bummed and then they're done. Or they're gonna shoot, uh, let's say, like a 120 buck, but then they don't see one next year and they get disappointed and then they're just done hunting.

Speaker 3: 10:08

I think the generation of parents out there now they're not getting their own kids involved outside, so I think it's a very big problem. Am I concerned? Yes, because I think, like I said, parents aren't teaching their kids to get outside and I think we really need to attack that level as well, and I think we have an older generation that's phasing out of hunting and they just don't want to do it anymore, and it's now on basically my generation, because now I'm 30 years old, I got two of my own kids and people that are in my age frame of 30 to 45 whatever, and they got kids and there's not getting them outside anymore yeah, I love that that's what you said, because you know what it's.

Speaker 1: 10:52

I see it all the time at work. I see it all the time with a lot of the kids we talk about all the time I work with kids. So, you know, everyone just much rather being being home, you know, and I think part of the problem is everyone wants it easy I always tell new hunters um, and I'm very fortunate of how I got into.

Speaker 1: 11:16

You know how, what I went through while hunting, because it was not easy, it's, it was the toughest thing, but it was fun and I enjoyed it and it made me appreciate when I was successful, and you know what? That's why I can go and have a bad year where you know what Shoulder shot a doe. You know I played a cat and mouse game with the buck. That, you know, just was one step ahead of me. You know all these different situations where I think, if I wasn't prepared for it and I didn't go through what I already had went to and wasn't raised the way it was and everything like that, like you would just quit. Quitting is just so much easier. And I think quitting now on the younger generation, that's what. That's kind of what and I'm not saying it's always the parents fault, because that's what kind of what I feel like they're being taught in school nowadays too. Um, yeah, you know it's okay to quit, it's okay to give up, and just where you can't give up on everything, and you know hunting, is that not the one thing? But hunting is like you can't give up on hunting. You have to keep going because as much as you see on tv and youtube and everything like that, these people shoot these, these giant deer. What you're not really seeing is you know the hard work usually going into it, you know the long sits, um, and then you know you look at like the hunting public. That's that's the one thing I love about the hunting public, because they show all that. They show all their misses, all their failures. You know they just hunt.

Speaker 1: 12:52

Now, easier said than done, but you know, yeah, it's, it's a tough situation. I think our, our country's in. But you're right, you have to get them out there. You have to start like an archery class would be excellent. I would recommend that for for here. I would. I would love for that to happen. Just get people in the outdoors. Look at how good the outdoors is. Just not even talking about hunting. Just being in the outdoors is good for for us humans. We're supposed to be in the outdoors. We're not supposed to be inside with lights and in front of a tv screen all damn day. You know we're supposed to be outside running around getting muddy, getting dirty, you know, just just having fun yeah, I agree yeah I, I agree I think I was raised in a competitive lifestyle because I, my dad, was a cop for 30 plus years.

Speaker 3: 13:50

My grandpa, he, was in the air force. He's a mechanic in the air force. Um, I married into a military family my, my brother-in-law he was a Marine. My father-in-law that's now passed. He, he was a Marine. And I grew up in the sports world. So I played quarterback for my football team and baseball and basketball and track and I always remember my dad telling me like you can't quit, you got to see it through and no matter how bad it was, you just had to learn from and move on.

Speaker 3: 14:16

And hunting I apply my sports to hunting because you're going to have times where hunting is just it sucks, it's down and dirty. You're going to have times where hunting is just it sucks, it's down and dirty. You're going to, you're going to miss and it's going to happen. And for people to say, well, I've never missed a deer. Well, you either never have a shot that many deer or you're just not, I don't know, but that's the reality of it all.

Speaker 3: 14:38

You're going to miss and like there was one time, one year I went a full year I didn't see one fucking deer and I've missed deer tons of times shot deer and I can never find them, and I've used those more as not to like, put myself down, but I was like this sucks, I don't want it to ever happen again. I use it more as a motivator to like. I got to do better and that's how I picked up. My game was like I. I hated those years. Those were my young years of hunting and now I'm at a fortunate enough where I'm at now, where I've gained a lot of knowledge. I've read a lot of books, I've listened to a lot of podcasts and youtube and you just you gotta continue be bettering yourself in any way possible yeah, no, um, it's funny how you look at it differently when you're an athlete, and I think that's always going to be the case.

Speaker 1: 15:31

I mean, I think most hunters, um, most people in the outdoors, are pretty athletic, you know, and they play sports and everything that. But you know, mentally it's just puts you ahead of the game. You know, and you know there are some people out there who who just hunt and they've never, you know, played sports or anything that. And you know what good for you I. I sometimes I wish that could have been me. I love hunting so much, but I appreciate all the sports I play.

Speaker 1: 15:59

And where it got me, where it got me mentally, physically, um, but being in in michigan, I mean those winters are not easy and it's kind of like you look at michigan, you look at minnesota, you look at like maine, um, you know some of those states where it's it's just difficult hunting and you, you kind of you're not going to go into a hunt always seeing 50 or 60 deer. You know, here in Jersey you do have people that see that many deer or you're at least seeing five, six, seven, eight deer hunt. You know you would, could be lucky enough to see one, just depending how far, far up north you are and everything like that. I know you guys have the UP up there and everything like that up there and everything like that. So you know kind of talk about that of. You know the difficulties during those tough times of what did it really contribute to? Was it just tough hunting? Was it the weather? Was it the, the inexperience? Um, what? What really did it contribute to the that lack of of deer at at the beginning stages?

Speaker 3: 17:06

I think it was just lack of knowledge and just constantly overhunting a certain area, and weather played a big part of it. I know, as of recently, though, a lot of beginning of October it gets still very hot. I mean heck, october 1st. It's a tradition for me to hunt all day, morning to night, and I'm sweating my balls off. It's nine degrees and it sucks, and it kind of continues through October most part, and then winter. It does suck.

Speaker 3: 17:35

It's very hard to hunt these winters because sometimes you're not going to get a full winter, it's going to be heck. Winter basically started at the end of January last year. For this year, but I think at the beginning of my hunting life, to not see the lack of deer is because, over pressuring, hunting a certain spot where you, just I hunted the one spot, all right, I don't know anything else, I'm going to hunt this one spot that my dad told me to hunt, I'm gonna see deer, so I got nothing else to go off of and just do that a bunch of times and you're gonna eventually deer gonna figure everything out, and I think that was the biggest thing.

Speaker 1: 18:17

Reason, reason why yeah, um, and were you, were you hunting in that that time frame? Was it still private property or was that public at the time?

Speaker 3: 18:28

I've only hunted the property the private property that I've been hunting for my 18th year now. So it's been the same spot and I have that same. I have a tree stand up in that same spot. I've actually killed my, my biggest deer out of that spot. However, I'm not hunting it as much and I'm using it more of uh, close to the rut, middle of the rut, type of spot and I'm not hunting it as much. I'm moving spots around and I've talked to the other hunters that hunt on the property. We've actually come up with a better game plan of how we're gonna hunt as much, and so we kind of figured out a better game plan once we figure out all who's hunting out there and who's hunting out there as much and stuff like that.

Speaker 1: 19:10

So yeah is, if you can just figure out how much time you're gonna spend in one tree stand, you can help yourself out there yeah, no, I, I think that and I think that is such an important thing, because yet again, when you're, when you're first starting out, when you're and I think that is such an important thing Cause yet again, when you're when you're first starting out, when you're younger and everything like that you're hunting the same stand over and over and over, like every time we talk about I look back at it, it's like Jesus Christ, like I would never do that now, like at a million years.

Speaker 1: 19:38

I would not like the only way I would. And I do that Like if I hunt a spot a bunch of times in a row, I got to be having the perfect wind, like the wind has got to be perfect, my accesses got to be perfect, like if I didn't bump a deer or blow deer out of there or something like that, if I was able to get in and out without being detected for the most part. I mean, obviously you're still leaving some scent behind, but you know that's going to give me like, all right, I'm gonna do it. But in those beginning times, man, I did not pay attention to the wind, I did not care. That was my one spot. I thought if I go there every single day, at some point it's gonna happen and you're right, at some point it easily can.

Speaker 1: 20:21

You have no idea. You know we're, you know we're chasing the unknown. You know there's so much unknown of what we do and you know you could go to Iran. You can go to the same tree for the 50th time during the season and you know what. That one time it may work out and the biggest buck of your life may, may show up. But now that we've gotten older, you know one we don't have nearly the same amount of time to hunt like we, like everyone did when we were younger and everything like that. So you got to really make your time count and you, you know, bouncing around seeing what, what else you can do, and then saving those better spots too for the time for crunch time is is is a crucial situation. And knowing also, like you said, when the other hunters are going to be out there, everyone kind of getting on the same page on on a property really benefits you guys in the long run.

Speaker 3: 21:17

Right and I, I guess, when you're talking about hunting apps, we've, if we want to, but I'm, but I'm just going to say it. When I was young I didn't know shit. Basically, I just got off what my dad told me like you hunt this stand, you're going to see the deer, and that's what I went off of. I'm like all right, fine. And then that when I was talking about off air where I didn't see a deer at all, then that's when I was like all right, I got to do something different. So I found started reading more, reading, more reading the property, a lot more and doing a lot more winter scouting. And then I found out some different spots. Now that's where I'm putting my more of my stands at, so I'm going to have more variation of hunting instead of just one spot and being married to it.

Speaker 1: 22:03

Basically, yeah, it's's. It's that one thing. What, what app are you using right now, like currently?

Speaker 3: 22:11

uh, this year I'm actually using a different one. It's gonna be spartan forge. I used to use um on x the last couple years and then when I first started off it was hunt wise um. But yeah, now I'm using a spartan forge what?

Speaker 1: 22:25

what's the reason for the switch?

Speaker 3: 22:28

I like the, the customization really of it. It's a lot more data driven, giving me more information that I'm looking for. Uh, I can do a lot more past looking of what the weather was like in the past and stuff like that. It's not not telling me. I mean it kind of does where you can give you a good prediction of what deer type movement you're going to see. I don't look at that. I actually hate it the most because I've ran into so many situations where I look at him like, all right, it's gave me a 5% chance of seeing a deer, all right, I'm not going to go hunting. And next thing I know my cell camera's blowing up and got deer right in front of my stand and then I've got in where it's like 95 and I'll go out there and hunt and I don't see shit, so I really don't like the data.

Speaker 1: 23:17

I don't like that one either and it's.

Speaker 3: 23:19

I just don't like it because I like to go off my gut. I like to see what's going on out in my own field. Yeah, it's nice to see what the weather's like and it's giving me that good percentage. I get that. But I know my deer on my property. I know how they're driven. I know what's going to happen the most I know. But you also have to remember it doesn't take into account what the neighbors are going to be doing. They can be shooting guns off all randomly, a sudden scare. Now they can scare a lot of deer away from their property. Yours like oh it's great, awesome.

Speaker 1: 23:50

So it doesn't take in a lot of outside of the facts, it just takes weather that is a hundred percent like one of the biggest things that I think a lot of new people don't like. Oh, you know, they don't think about whether you're hunting private or public it really doesn't matter, because there's going to be things that are going to disrupt, you know, the deer movement. You're right, there could be people on the other property that are shooting off guns, or it could be the person right next to you could have shot one of your target deer, you know, or shot a bunch of. You know they could have gotten all drunk and ran through the woods or whatever. The case is. Like you, you just have you don't know, and going off of.

Speaker 1: 24:32

I wasn't a big fan because I would see that some of my more successful days were low opportunity days. I'm not saying I've had one of my best days was actually was on a high probability day, but it also said, yes, there's a high possibility, but it's also extremely windy, so, like we don't, it might be a little too windy and I'm like, well, you know what, I'm gonna go out anyway and thank god I did. You know, um, I love these apps. I really do, and I've heard great things about, uh, spartan. Um, you know, right now I'm on. I'm on Onyx. I've invested so much time in Onyx. I have so many pins in Onyx that I don't know if I can switch, but I started with the wise app as as well. Um, and I also used to use what's the other one. There's one more.

Speaker 1: 25:21

Um all that, uh, huntstan, I think. Yeah, hunt, other one. There's one more, um, oh that, uh, hunt stand, I think, yeah, hunt stand. I tried that one as well. I know a couple people that prefer that one. And whichever one you prefer, whichever one, they're all great. At this point, honestly, you know each one has a different, has some different features that the other ones don't have. Um, I would probably say um, but for for the most part, like any of those apps, you can really get it done. But mapping mapping has gotten key. I think that's something I've been developing and trying to get better at, as reading maps and then going and be able to look at the map and picture it kind of like in my head of like the ridges, the drop-offs, the benches, fingers, everything like that's something I want to get better at as a hunter. And also um, vegetation, like knowing exactly, kind of like every plant and what their basis and what deer and everything like that you use, um each you know plant for and everything like that and that's what spartan forge has.

Speaker 3: 26:24

It that's what Spartan Forge has. That's the main reason why I switched to it, because I wanted to become a better plant idea, or whatever you want to call it or identify plants better, trees, better and I wanted to see granted, I know all the ridges on my property but, like I said, I've been hunting for almost 20 years on the same piece of property, so I know where everything's at. But I to see how the, the ridges are at and it's nice to see on spartan forge, where it doesn't only give you the, the, the top of map, but it also gives you the gradient of, like, the degree drop off and by color coordination of it, but it also gives you plant id stuff like that of what's going to be looking at for your in your area. And that's one thing that I was looking at the most and I really fell in love with it. And I think people might get too addicted to hunting apps and, like I said, you see people like all right, it's three percent, so I'm not going to go out there and that's that's what I mentioned, but at the end of the day, I think we get too focused on all right, I'm reading'm reading the hunting app Great, the weather's great Stuff like that, or it's bad.

Speaker 3: 27:27

At the end of the day, these are still wild animals. They're still wild deer. You can predict all you want of deer coming from a certain area, based off wind, but they're going to come from a different direction. You just never know. With these deer, yeah, you can put yourself in the best possible situation I'm not saying that and do everything you can, but at the end of the day, there's sometimes where I'll go out there and say, fuck it, I don't care, I'm going out hunting, I want to see deer, and sometimes I see more deer doing that because I just don't care what the wind's like, and I've seen deer come and I've seen deer literally come from, like if I've had a west wind, I've had deer come directly into wind coming right at me.

Speaker 1: 28:13

You just never know, they sometimes just don't care. I think and that's another thing like you could talk about the wind and I, I, I'm a, I'm a strong believer in the wind if it's in an area that really met, like you know, that doesn't have much human scent. You know, I think in the wind if it's in an area that really met, like you know, that doesn't have much human scent. You know, I think in the midwest it's definitely a little more important. I think definitely in the up it's going to be definitely more important for you guys over there. Um, you know maine, those states, certain places in pa, but you got to remember a lot of these areas.

Speaker 1: 28:40

Deer are so used to human scent and I always tell people that they're like well, what if you got a big buck here? And it's like well, it depends, is there a hiking trail nearby? Is it? Are there? Am I hunting behind a private property, a private piece? Are there, you know, constant human scent and people walking around like what? What are the factors?

Speaker 1: 29:02

Now, if I'm hunting a deer in the delaware water gap, which is basically, if you're going to go anywhere, to be the middle of nowhere in new jersey. That's where it's going to be and you're going to get lost, you know. Or the pine barrens down down in south jersey. You are going to focus, I think, a little more on on the wind, but they're gonna still surprise the hell out of you. You know when you could think you have a deer pattern and you know what next thing. You know he's coming to right behind you and you did it. You didn't set up for a shot right right behind him. Expect the unexpected when hunting any type of animal, from deer to bears to coyotes. You know you, we think that we know them, but we really, we really don't know them right and, for instance, this year.

Speaker 3: 29:49

I'm actually gonna be trying something different out for the next couple years going forward too as well. I'm actually putting a scarecrow up in my tree stand with one of my old hunting t-shirts to get my scent okay, yeah, yeah, I saw that, I saw yeah yeah, yeah, and that's something, because the only reason I came up with the idea was because my dad and I were talking about it years ago.

Speaker 3: 30:09

Like that way they're not as skittish. And then when I moved into my house, where I'm at now, and I live in a neighborhood and I got deer right outside my fence and I could stare at 10 of them and I could be doing jumping jacks and they don't care. So I was like, well, you know what? What if I did the same? What if I did something on the field, where they are used to an object up in a tree and they get somewhat of a scent up there, but they get used to an object up there. Basically is what I wanted to get at. And that way they're not as skittish. When they all of a sudden, october 1st hits and they're like what the fuck is that? Oh, no, all. Right. First hits and they're like what the fuck is that?

Speaker 1: 30:46

oh, no, all right, they're all skittish and they're freaking out. I agree, I, I think it's a great idea, I think it's going to. I think it's a very unique study, basically, like this is kind of like a study, yeah, and I'm very interested to see what you're going to find and I, to me it makes sense where it would work. Just because of that, like they're so used to seeing that standard with nothing in it, and at the end of the day, the minute you put something that they're not used to, it's like well, what the hell? And they just, yeah, they know you're there and they're just staring at you and they're you're, they're going down, they're eating, but then they're staring at you.

Speaker 1: 31:25

It's like fuck, I didn't even move like the wind is going, like everything's perfect, you know, and part of that is you know that we, we figured out and you know that we've been uh, working with, with turkey season um, and we're pretty excited to use during deer season too is our hex products. Um, you know we're we're working with hex and you know we're very interested in seeing what that is, because it actually cuts down and minimizes your, your elect what is it? Again frank, you're like, yeah, we, we produce like kind of like electricity. I guess I can't remember the. I'm not a science guy like that, I'm not not 100 percent sure, but you know basically we're producing.

Speaker 1: 32:09

You know our bodies give us like some type of electricity, obviously. You look at our heart, our brain, like everything like that. It does use, you know, electrons or whatever the hell to function and everything like that, and we actually give that off. And you know the mike, uh, the the owner. He said have you ever been in a stand and everything's perfect, and a deer just literally looks right at you. He goes part of that is. Is that reason? Because they may not know that, they may not be able to see you or everything's right, but they can sense you. Yeah, you know the. These electrons are, are producing, and it's producing enough where it is, uh, they're able to pick on it. Pick up on it.

Speaker 1: 32:52

Now, birds, he said birds, definitely way more than than deer and everything like that, but it's still the same thing, like deer can can pick up on it as well. So we're, that's what we're going to be throwing in there. Um, but I do, I do like that scarecrow idea. There are probably some spots where I think I could do that at. I think I'd scare the shit out of some people on public land. So I think it's really a good idea to do that. So we'll have to see, but I'm definitely interested to see what you, what you, find on that and it's something I want to do for not just this year or the next year.

Speaker 3: 33:32

I want to do it for a couple years to see, to get them used to it, not just the ones that are out there now mature age but the young ones. I want to get them up to an age of where they get used to it. So I'm excited for it, I'm nervous, but I say all the time, hunting is something that you got to constantly be trying to do something different and be willing to get out of your comfort zone and try something different. So this is one thing that I've been going to be trying to do. It's one of them.

Speaker 1: 33:59

Are you going to? How often are you going to change the shirt so you're sent always stay like? Are you going to change the shirt so your scent always stays Like? Are you going to go every time, bring an extra shirt, exchange it Like what are? Have you thought of that at that point at all?

Speaker 3: 34:12

I think it's every time because I like to go out. Like I said, I'm not scared going out in the woods and getting my scent out there. Like I said, I want deer to get used to my scent. I think a lot of hunters they get. Well, I don't want to go out in the field as much because I don't want to scare the deer away. I get that logic of it. But, like I said, my logic to this is because I want to see, I want to get them used to my scent and stuff like that, so I don't want them to be as skittish when hunting season comes around. So generally I've been thinking of changing the shirt every time I go out, every like two weeks of when I get cameras, every time I go out every two weeks of when I get cameras. That's what I've been thinking of. Every time I'm out there I'm getting my cameras and stuff like that, the t-shirts changed out. That's what I'm thinking of it so far yeah, I, I like that a lot.

Speaker 1: 35:00

Um, you know, and that's another thing I like he said, you know there's people that, oh, you shouldn't get your scent out there. But you know, I have a buddy, um kyle. He, he was going every every chance he got after work in his sweaty clothes, like in his work clothes, and he was kind of getting the deer used to that, because you know what sometimes I think he said that, hey, if I get out of work, I'm going straight. You know, if that's my time where I have to hunt, like I got kids, like I gotta get out there. You know why don't, instead of getting not getting them used to our scent and spooking them, let's get them used to the scent where they're thinking you know, here we can bait, you know, here we can we could do all these different things.

Speaker 1: 35:41

I'm not sure if it's illegal in Michigan or not, but you know, get them used to that. Where they're associating that with you know, the bait or whatever it is. And then so when you just go in there, boom, you have deer coming in and not nervous, not skittish. It's like, oh okay, this person was here or this scent is here. There must be food now out, let me, let's go see if there there's, there's food out, or something like that.

Speaker 1: 36:11

So I, I think it, yet again, I think it depends really where you're hunting, I think is going to be the main factor if that's going to work now, um, I think the more you chance you get them to get used to it, the better off you're going to be, and I think that's with almost any animal. Just the more you they associate things with, you know safety or food or whatever, the more comfortable you can get them. And and yet again, you're right, you have to get them. You have to take every advantage that you can get and you have to try everything, as long as it's legal. You got to try everything by necessary, because these animals are not easy to kill, they especially. The bigger they get, the harder it gets.

Speaker 3: 37:06

That's true and yeah, it may suck at the first year. I do it that first two years because they might be going off different patterns now. So they're like all right, and that's why everyone's kind of like scared to do it. They're like, well, I don't want to change their patterns or something like that and okay, fine, so it may suck at the beginning because they're going to be moving different areas and moving through different lanes, trails, whatever, but then I'll get them used to those ones so I can adjust now my hunting to where they're officially moving on these new ones. And for instance, like I don't know if you got a university around you that you've been on or whatever, but when I went to western I'd walk through the middle of campus and I seen 10 point bucks, 12 point bucks, just walk in the middle of the damn campus. I'm like what the heck man? And, like I said, they just don't, they don't care sometimes because they get used to it. So you can kind of train deer like cattle I agree, and we see it here.

Speaker 1: 37:58

I mean it's yet again we're we're such a small state and we're so diverse. I mean, yet again, we're the most densely populated state, so deer and people are always going to mix. Deer and bears are always going to mix, now you know. So I think, like you said, a school parks, things like that, like yet again, again, even areas that you hunt, like we have trails, that like I have one spot, my meat spot, the wind does not matter one bit, I don't care what the wind says, because they are so used to people coming and walking on the hiking trails and everything like that and just walking through at random times through the day. They don't do anything. I I took somebody out and he was a new hunter and he was so shocked that we were able to walk up on a buck, um, and I think we were like 10, 15 yards and we were able to get closer and closer and he didn't move. And you know, I think part of it.

Speaker 1: 39:00

I forget who we're talking about on this podcast. I can't remember exactly who said it, but they're like maybe you know we also give off a different, you know, pheromone or whatever it is when we're hunting, because, I swear, when I'm not in that hunting mode and I'm hunting mode and I'm just walking, you know, or going to do something, we're not trying to be sneaky, so deer kind of just they pick up on that. You know. Maybe I don't know what it is, but when I'm not hunting I could be as close as I could throw a rock at a deer and kill it. But when it's hunting season I got that like killer mentality. I don't know if it's like I'm trying to be stealthy. I don't know if it's like I'm trying to be stealthy. I don't know if we actually are giving off something that you know deer can pick up, our animals can pick up on. But where the hell is that during?

Speaker 2: 39:53

during the hunting season.

Speaker 1: 39:54

I would like it easy, like that you, you give me a 10 yard broadside shot right there, just like you did. You know, outside of season we would have no issues. It's, it's not like it's, it's ridiculous. Or I have bucks. You know we, one of the spots I I hunt in to antler restriction. I'm telling you these bucks that are under the antler restriction that they know they can't get shot. They're the cockiest things in the world and they give you all the time in the day you could jump on its back and kill it with the knife and like that's how easy it would be. But like it's, like they know it's, it's bizarre, it's the craziest thing in the world. I'll never understand it, but you know it makes it, makes it what it is and it's it's it is.

Speaker 2: 40:41

It is a lot of fun yeah, I mean even even like we're um up by us in new york state. Everybody used to hate when, um, when the farmer would go and like spray down their fields with manure. But I used to love it because from my tree stand I can smell it, and if I could smell it, I know they can smell it, so I'll be like I'm golden.

Speaker 1: 41:03

Now I have nothing to worry about yeah, and I've heard when, when farmers do certain things, I actually heard like it's a very, it's very useful um, and deer and all different animals they pick up on that and they get so accustomed to that. You know, I don't know if they're coming out when they're there's shit all over the ground, but I know when you you tear up that spot or you're fresh corn or whatever you're doing plowing, whatever animals start to come, deer will come. But yeah, that manure, yeah may smell, it's a great cover scent. It's a really good cover scent.

Speaker 2: 41:37

So many deer man, I'm telling you, maybe it was just because they were coming in our woods to get away from the smell. I don't know, but it always seemed to work for me.

Speaker 1: 41:45

So um, I wonder. I've heard a lot of things about smoke, about a campfire smoke. There's actually a really good cover set and then I I can't. Yet again, I can't remember who said this, but they said that their father, or something like that. That's what he does before hunting season and before he goes on a hunt he will have a campfire and he'll actually get his clothes nice and smoky and he'll go out in the woods and, you know, have no issues whatsoever, because that's more, that's still a natural smell, especially, yet again, if you're living closer, if your deer are living closer to homes. I think they're going to experience that a lot more and they're not going to really take that with human scent. You know, because there's fires all the time and you know there could be a little forest fire or anything like that. So it's just like a little smoke. I don't think it's a. I don't think it really affects deer movement at all.

Speaker 3: 42:40

No, I I've heard that my dad's actually been trying to do that a couple of times where he'll take his clothes in the smoke and air it out that way. And I actually I don't use any scent products like any, like spray down products, whatever. The only thing I do when it comes to scent control is I clean it with desensitized clothing whatever, and I'll take a shower the first day but after that I clean. I leave my clothes basically the entire month of september outside, so it gets that fresh, natural smell like that way and kind of feel like that way. I feel quote, unquote invisible out there in my way.

Speaker 1: 43:16

That's, that's how I do my scent control, at least no, and it's, it's smart, like that is the best way. My one buddy had a um to have it. He was gonna put it. He was gonna dig a hole and put it in the ground for the whole entire off season and then dig it back up during the season. Um, he never ended up doing it, but it was like I'll never forget when he told me. But then I was like you know what, like that could maybe work. But then I was like well, if it's really rainy, then it's not gonna work and then your clothes are gonna be just absolutely just disgusting and you're gonna have to put it in the washer anyway. So maybe it won't work. But like, if there's a way where you could do it, and, like you said, if you, you know, you leave it outside, like that's a, that's a perfect way to do it. Um, you know the, the better off I think you are.

Speaker 1: 44:10

I do agree. I don't think we can never fool a deer's nose and that's my belief, right? I I use it with a grain of salt Like, don't get me wrong Like I have the scent free stuff and I like to wash my clothes, obviously, you know, and I'll wash it and scent free stuff and everything like that. But yet again, I don't think the minute I get out the shower I'm getting the same odor on me. You know, the minute I put clothes on, the minute I walk through the house, the minute I get into bed, the minute I put clothes on, the minute I walk through the house, the minute I get into bed, the minute I'm next to my fiancee, because you know she likes to wear perfume and everything like that or the minute I get into the truck, like there's just different scents all around us that are not in the woods.

Speaker 3: 44:53

The only thing I could think about is getting an outdoor shower, taking a shower in the outdoors, rolling around on the ground and, I guess, going out hunting naked yeah, the only way I remember one year I tried putting my clothes in leaves for like two weeks and then, all right, I'm gonna take them straight from the leaves, fluff them out for a second, then put them on, go hunting. That was a bad fucking idea, man. I next I thing. I know I feel itchy all around me. I got from my tree stand like nope done, let's wash these clothes.

Speaker 1: 45:29

That was not a good idea. Did you have any ticks? Luckily, you didn't have any ticks on you.

Speaker 3: 45:33

No, I got butt naked, man, and I made sure there was nothing on me. Wash the clothes like mom. Throw me in the laundry real quick oh, but it's yet again.

Speaker 1: 45:44

That's such a you would think it's such a smart idea because in your head, like this is all natural, um, but then, yet again, it makes sense, yet again that it would be extremely itchy, and then I would be paranoid too and I would. I would freak out the minute like I thought I felt something crawling on me Like it's, it's, it's a tough, it's a tough thing trying to fool a deer's nose, but you know it's, it's part of that cat and mouse game. You know it's part of what we love and we're. I love how all of us are all just coming out. We're trying to come up with different ideas that probably somebody has come out with before us, and you know anyone who's probably done this already and, you know, maybe failed at her, but like, yeah, these guys are idiots. I wonder. I hope someone in the listen to this comes like DMS us. We're like, hey, listen, this is what I tried doing. It's something just absolutely outrageous. Um, so if anyone out there has done anything outrageous, please let us know.

Speaker 1: 46:50

So, brett you're, you know you're. You're hunting this property. What was? What was your first? You know, big season like that really get when'd you really get hooked onto hunting? Was it always at a young age? Where or was there one moment that like, or one season or something like that that really stuck out to you?

Speaker 3: 47:12

oh man, that's a good question. I think I've always been hooked because growing up my dad's always hunted and my dad's best friend always hunted. They took me out hunting to the hunting cabin up in the up. Uh, I remember at a young age I'd stand at the sliding glass door, just face buried into it and like, all right, it's dark, mom, where the fuck's dad at you said he's coming in and just waiting for dad to come in and ask him stories of what he saw, and I'd go out there hunting, I mean, uh, tracking deer when he shot him.

Speaker 3: 47:46

And I don't think there's one particular year where I got officially hooked. I think it was just kind of born in right into me where hunting is just it's part of who I am. I mean, I've had stories and seasons where I was like they're probably my, my best seasons and those are different. But to be actually officially hooked into it, no, I think it was just, it was just something in me, naturally, once I picked up my very first bow and my dad started teaching me to hunting, I think once I threw my first arrow down at the target, it was game over. It's just hunting, it's hunting with a bow and something my dad. It's kind of like a law in the family where you, we only hunt with a bow, we'll never hunt with a gun.

Speaker 3: 48:28

Um, unfortunately he can't draw back a bow anymore, so he's one of those babies that shoots a crossbow, which I don't care. That whole crossbow debate I get, it's a big thing right now. Um, so he gets. He gets a pass for me and just like anyone else that can't physically draw back a bow. But for people that can't draw back a bow physically, that can draw a bow physically and to shoot a crossbow, I'm gonna have my opinions about you and you're gonna hear my opinion about it. But anyways, yeah, the day I can't draw back a bow, I'll pick up a crossbow or I hope that day never comes I love that because that is my biggest opinion on crossbow.

Speaker 1: 49:10

I think and it's a very, it's a very difficult debate that I have with people and yet again, if you use it, I'd much rather you use it and hunt than not. But you know what? I think they need to make it where, if you're under a certain age, you can use it. If you're past a certain age or have a medical or physical disability, yes, obviously you should be able to use it. But I think if you can do it, pull back a bell and it's something kind of that we're talking about. You know what it's hard, so don't give up on it. That's what makes bow hunting so much fun, is it's difficult. Everything has to go right. If you're an inch off man, that could be. That's hit or miss, that could be. You know the difference of a dead deer or not. Could it be that's hit or miss, that could be. You know the difference of a dead deer or not. I think people have just gotten too comfortable with doing the basics and I think crossbow hunting to me and yet again, I hope no one out there gets offended by this but I think it's the basic. If you're looking to me to start hunting, like hey, listen, I want to start hunting. All right, here's a crossbow. I'm actually doing that with with a buddy, but moving forward if he loves it. Hey, bud, you can't use this crossbow anymore. You got to go get yourself a real bow and you got to use a compound bow. I'm all for using a crossbow under those circumstances, you know. Um, besides that, you know, and you got those people like I, I, american, mike, he, he, you know he could kill it with the bow, muzzleloader, shotgun, crossbow. He does it all, um, you know, and he loves using the crossbow for me in the late season. But you know, I give him his credit because he's a great freaking shot and you know he could kill it with with, no matter what he uses. So you know he gets the pass for me too.

Speaker 1: 51:06

But you know, for the most part, like my fiance, she's gone into hunting, never used a crossbow, not once. I asked her like hey, do you want to use one? She goes no, I got her to make to agree. This year, if we have time, if we we're gonna do a bear hunt, I want her to do it with a crossbow, not her, her bow, because her bow, I think is only and I know it could probably it could kill a bear at 40, um but pounds, but I still would feel a lot more comfortable if she was pulling back 50. You know what I mean. I would be like all right, you know what, we're gonna go kill ourselves a bear. You can use your, your compound bow, but you know my first one, it's gonna be a crossbow, I think yep, well, that's smart I think the debate when it comes to crossbows, it's I don't care if I hurt people's opinion opinions, that's on my show.

Speaker 3: 52:01

I don't care if I hurt people's opinions, that's on my show, I don't care, I'm going to say what I want. Um, but if you're using a crossbow, first off, if you're out hunting, that's what I mostly care about, because I just like people getting outside in the woods and hunting. It's just, it's a dying thing overall. But to talk about crossbow hunting overall, it's if you physically can't, okay, then let's have a medical note, whatever. If you physically just can't do it, okay, then you can use crossbow. If you're at a very young age and drawing back a bow, you just don't have the strength to do it, then that's okay.

Speaker 3: 52:31

Like you said, I think there's certain times where people can use a bow, I mean a crossbow. But if you physically can draw back a bow and you don't need to shoot a poundage of 70, 80, whatever, I mean heck, you got people out there shooting 30, 40 pounds, so it's, it's possible, it's. You get these people out there with a crossbow. They can shoot basically almost on a mile, basic whatever, and shooting at penny size groupings it's ridiculous and they can go into archery and they can shoot during the gun season.

Speaker 2: 53:07

And it's just I don't like it, I think it needs its own separate season, like gun season.

Speaker 3: 53:14

I think it needs to be pushed at a certain point. Granted, I think here in Michigan I definitely think that we need to move gun season from November 15th to a different date. I know I'll never see that in my lifetime, but I think crossbows itself One of my good buddies. I make fun of him all the time for shooting a crossbow. It's just what it is and I don't think anything less of him. I just make fun of him for it. But I'll do that with anybody. But he's out hunting and that's what I care about.

Speaker 3: 53:44

But, like I said, I think crossbow hunting needs to have its own season and if you're going to use it into the actual archery season, it only comes down to those people where they it's a young kid or an adult or whatever they physically can't do it anymore or they have some type of surgery where their shoulder gives out and they can't do it at all. So, yeah, it depends on the person. Uh, young age, it's okay to move into the archery season. But if you're a physically able person to draw back a bow, you don't have anything limiting yourself. You.

Speaker 1: 54:15

You should have your own season I agree, I think um, I agree, I think um. It was.

Speaker 2: 54:21

Frank, go ahead. Sorry, but even like up by me during archery season, I barely ever see anybody that shoots a compound boat. Everybody I come across to has a crossbow in their hand, cause it's an easy thing to do. Yeah, and I've seen, I've seen guys cause they just bring a bucket and they say, oh, I can shoot 70, 80 yards from here, I'm good and I'm just like all right, I mean, do whatever you want. But like upstate new york, like where we got our property, they have a crossbow season but you can't during the archery season. You can't hunt with your crossbow until like the last I think it's like the last two weeks before the gun season opens, the the whole beginning, the whole all of october and most of november. You can only hunt compound only.

Speaker 1: 55:13

yeah, I, I love that about new york. I am and I'm really excited for us to go scout friday um upstate new york and everything like that, for a big reason One, it's New York and two, you get a bear tag with your honey tag, like your deer tag. But they have that separate season where I know it's not going to happen because I think Crossbow, let me see if I still have it. I don't want to get this number, but in 2023, I might have deleted it. Let me go to my thing. I think in 2023, I think the I'll tell the exact number because I haven't posted. So in 2022, 2023, we had 38,324 deer harvested. Harvested method 41.9 crossbow 25.3 shotgun 22.1 compound at 10.2 muzzleloader the compounds were 22.1%.

Speaker 3: 56:26

I'm seeing right there. We mentioned before archery. It's a hard thing and I think that's why a lot of people don't want to get into hunting. I think people don't want to get into archery hunting. It's a very hard thing to do, but that's the skill of it all. That's why I love it, because very the smallest thing can go wrong. The knot can fall off your your string. You could have accidentally not clicked your your release on their d-loop whatever. Um, as you're drawing back, you accidentally hit your your trigger, and that's why I love archery hunting, because so many things can go wrong. But you also have to do these deer within 20 yards, basically.

Speaker 1: 57:04

So yeah, yeah, and and that's another thing about people are like oh well, you know, I could shoot a deer at 60, 80 with my compound. I'm like, honestly, like I practice at those ranges but I don't think I'm shooting really. I I think 40 is maybe my limit and I really much rather the closer in the better, because that's what archery is all about. Listen, if I can shoot a deer every time at five yards, I would shoot a deer every time at five yards. Like the closer in that means I'm doing everything correct, playing the wind, my movements on, like everything is good. You know I don't really want to shoot a deer at 40, 50 yards away. You know, at least I know I can if it came down to it.

Speaker 1: 57:49

You know, best believers are 180 inch deer, 50 yards out. I'm I'm sending it. You know what I mean. Um, but you know, besides that, like I want them to come as close as possible, the cleanest shot with the cleanest method. I, you know I we owe it to the animals to to do that yeah, and for me I'm not shooting a deer past 60 yards.

Speaker 3: 58:17

If it's 50 to 60 yards in that ball frame, the conditions for me have to be great. I like them 45 and in. That's just my personal preference and certain times I'll shoot that far. It all depends on the situation that's at my hand.

Speaker 1: 58:34

Yeah, it's the smartest thing to do. You know and yet again we talked about it I highly recommend to everyone out there practice as far as you can. I know not everyone is able to because you know, yet again, some people don't have the space for it or not close to a range or something like that. But you know, what I do is every time I go out to the range I start at the farthest distance that I'm comfortable at shooting and I'll actually work myself in, because then again I don't want to get so accustomed to shooting at 60 and everything like that. And you know, I had this happen with American Mike. He was practicing at 60 and everything like that and he went to shoot a deer at 20 and missed, went right, went right over the deer, and he was like, oh damn, he's like, make sure, make sure you also practice at 20, because you know.

Speaker 1: 59:22

But it's and I think, a key to that change hunting for me too, was practicing courting away shots, the, I think to me the deadliest shot you can really have is that quartering away. And you know it helped me so much. One season where every shot I took was actually since I started practicing, every shot I've taken since. So this is this will be year three that I've been really practicing quartering away hard. I've taken a quartering away shot. None have been broadside, wow, an extreme, like I'm talking, some extreme quartering away like one doe I. I literally put it in the back right, close, right in front of her back, hip, and it went through the guts, both lungs, and came out just like the perfect, like it was a perfect hole just right behind that shoulder and that's how hard she was. She was quartering the deer I shot last year and I shouldered, I miscalculated, I think I miscalculated. There's a few things I think went on. Um, but you know, just quartering hard, and I didn't put it back enough and she moved a little bit and it hit that, that front shoulder. Um, you know, same thing, quartering heart, a hard quarter.

Speaker 1: 1:00:42

Um, I think, quartering away. You got to practice. I've even, you know, practice quartering too. You know, I, I don't think I'm really ever, I don't know how comfortable I am taking that shot um, I think, moving to a heavier arrow, having the heavier option with the, the iron will this year, I think, I think I will, and not saying I won't with sever, um, I think, with the heavier arrows with the sever broadhead. I, I 100, will too, um, but you know, I just want a little heavier of a of an arrow just for that. That front shoulder, you know, and yet again owe it to the deer, you gotta, you know, you gotta take the highest percentage shot you can possibly take and you owe it to the deer to harvest that deer correctly I also think you also have to know your own limits with that as well, like, for instance, myself, um, a couple years ago when I shot my deer that I named Fish Hook, I had him.

Speaker 3: 1:01:43

He was chasing a doe in heat I he stopped behind a tree for a second. I was able to get full draw on him, but he kept walking away and he ended up being quartering away from me. However, once I started following him around, my limb kept hitting with my, my bow hanger. So next thing, I know I'm like I don't know what came in me, but I was like all right, squat and shoot with it. And next thing, I know it went right through him and went five yards and died right in front of me and I wouldn't have taken that at a younger age.

Speaker 3: 1:02:16

But because I've practiced different situations and thought of different situations in my own head when I'm out in the field, I think it's something that you need to practice and know your limits. And if it's something that you're not comfortable with, definitely don't do it Because, like you said, you owe it to the animal to give it the most clean, ethical kill possible. And take it from someone that shot at deer, pushing my own limits that I haven't practiced. It weighs on you for a long time, and I remember all the deer that I've shot where I push the limits, thinking I can get an arrow through them, and I've either wounded them severely or and just never found them. Um, it's something that it haunts me every time that I go out in the field, so I just make sure I do better each and every time yeah, and that's a key, like, look at the time period that we're in right now, it's the off season.

Speaker 1: 1:03:05

Uh, you know, I think doing everything you can to to practice like you hunt and to this is the time to push your limits. I would say you know you got the safety. We're not shooting at anything real right now. I honestly I tell you I don't like shooting at um dots. I don't really. Unless I'm sighting my bow in, I don't shoot at dots. I get um, I obviously have my 3d target and then when I go to the range I have paper like real life side paper cutouts of deer and it shows it has the vitals and everything like that. And you know that's what I shoot at.

Speaker 1: 1:03:44

I want to get so accustomed to shooting at a deer, um, and I think that has helped me a lot. And obviously I like to shoot out of my tree. I'm fortunate enough to be able to climb a tree at my house and get into the saddle and shoot from that. Know, steep up, cornering away, um, you know, the only thing is I can't do that at 40 or 50 or 60 yards. You know I can only got a 20 yard shot in my, in my yard, um, you know. So I, I gotta make it, gotta make it count. But you know what, getting up, climbing up with your gear. If you are someone who's switching to the saddle, I always tell them you know frank can definitely touch on this because he's gonna be to the saddle I always tell them, you know frank can definitely touch on this because he's gonna be running the saddle for the first time this year is you got to practice? You can't just buy it and think you're good, it's the easiest thing in the world. I do think it's. I do think it's a great system. We talk about all the time this podcast.

Speaker 1: 1:04:37

I love saddles. I have two saddles and two platforms now. You know, and you know it is a great mechanism and tool to it's situational. You know, I don't think it's the end, all be all, but you have to practice it. You have to practice it in the summer. You got to practice it during the fall. You definitely have to practice. I think the most important part is the winter, when you have all that extra weight and all that extra clothing and everything like that, and it's snowing or it's, your fingers aren't working as well Cause it's, it's so damn cold, like that's really like the time where you really have to practice and you got to know your gear and know your limits, like you said yep, no, that's why, like, I started practicing months ago as soon as I got it.

Speaker 2: 1:05:23

So I'm just waiting to get my bow back, which hopefully will be back either tomorrow or the next day, so I can start shooting at it. You know out of it, because you know and for our event you need it for our event too yeah, I know, and I'm just like, oh my god. But uh, you know it's. I definitely need to shoot out of it a lot more and I kind of feel like I'm a little bit behind right now, but I know we still have time.

Speaker 1: 1:05:48

But listen I I brett, I don't know how often you shoot, but I I haven't really done much shooting. Uh, this year it's something that I went to go pick up my bow from the shop and the guy goes damn, you shoot your bow a lot Like I put a lot of arrows through my through my bow. During the season I love to shoot constantly, but this year I've taken kind of the step back and I've changed the way I scout, the way I'm planning stuff and just the way I'm shooting, Because you know I'm trying to spend more time with the fiance, catch up on, you know, my, my duties here so I can get out even more and don't have to worry about it during the during the season. You know so. And work I got it. You know I got to work as much as I can so I can pay for all these great things Shooting. It's going to ramp up probably in the next couple weeks because, honestly, for us, Brett, our season starts September 14th. We're really not. We're two months out today.

Speaker 3: 1:06:55

It's crazy from the season starting my scenario, my practice routine wouldn't line up with yours then. Well, it could in a way. But for me, my practice routine when it comes to, like I said, I've only hunt with a bow and I've actually become a certified archery instructor and teacher and technician. Um, one thing that I do when it comes to my practice routine is I'll shoot at a target and it's just mainly a circle target, like one of those morale targets and whatever. But I'll practice on that april through the end of july, then august and september I start moving to my 3d target. So I get those first couple months it's just form, making sure I'm dialed in, and it's just form, form, form all the way through. And then once august and september comes around, I start getting into my tree stand, start shooting at different angles and I also start shooting at, uh, different distances out of it as well. But I also get my eye used to that 3d target as well. So my eye gets used to seeing it like a real target out there and I and for me that's just, it's worked out for myself.

Speaker 3: 1:08:04

There's a lot of times where I've come out in the field, where I'm not proud of it, but I've trained it, where I just had to draw back and shoot right away. It's something that I don't recommend to new hunters, but because I spent a lot of time with my bow and I know what it's capable of and I know what my own limits are. I'm comfortable doing that at a deer and, like last year, for instance, I had a deer coming right at me. He was running. I had to quickly get my bow drawn and I had to follow him right away, and then, as soon as he stopped, I had to quickly get my bow drawn and I had to follow him right away, and then, as soon as he stopped, I had to. I couldn't wait a second because he was going to be moving. I knew it. And so just constant practice and I think that's really helped me out in the long run.

Speaker 3: 1:08:48

It's just practices, but also I practice on Sundays, but I have a family now so I do a lot of family time with them. So I got to really make sure like if you looked at my calendar on my phone each day there I have a routine some 8 am to like one in the morning. Basically each and every day I got something planned out. I'm busy day in and day out, so I got something going on. I got church, I got archery practice I set aside for myself, and monday through friday I got work. I do some golf stuff with my dad. I got my own show, like I said, on tuesdays and thursdays, and it's just, but I also make sure I set time away from my family yeah, yeah, no, I, I love that, I, you know I.

Speaker 1: 1:09:28

I love that schedule. Same thing I I got. You can look at my schedule. It's filled up in the same way. I don't have the kids yet, um, you know. So I get a bit more freedom than than you guys, um, but mine starts the minute I wake up. I'm outside. I'm usually working out. You know, I will check emails. I will make sure the schedule. We got no podcast scheduled. If I do, I take a look at the time I get a post in.

Speaker 1: 1:09:54

You know, depending if I, if I have to go to work, I go to work. If I don't, then you know I am doing something around the house. You know doing something for you know the brand working out, getting a tool done and I sometimes we get to because Bianca likes shooting. We get date night is sometimes at the range, so we'll both go to the range and we'll just send arrows and we'll that. That's our date night, or we'll go out, um, she'll accompany me, like we'll go out glassing sometimes, stuff like that.

Speaker 1: 1:10:25

So you know, I'm excited, though, when we do have kids, to do that with the kids as well, but it limits how much you can do, and your time is very precious, you know from yet again, I'm 32, I'm, you know. Almost everyone now that you know I hang out with is either having kids, gonna have kids, getting married, just got engaged, or in a very long-term serious relationship. So everyone's lives are just on this tight schedule and you got to be able to fit it all in, especially if you're going to be a um, a family man, and also an outdoorsman too.

Speaker 3: 1:11:03

It's a battle of both worlds and it's it's a great, it's a great situation and I told my wife on our very first date, like listen, this is what you're gonna get out of me. In the spring and summertime, I like to golf here and there with my dad, and in the fall, I'm either out in the woods hunting or on saturdays, my butt's in the couch watching college football. So that's what you're gonna get, and yet somehow she's still with me, so she knew what she's listening to I did the same with mine.

Speaker 2: 1:11:29

I said listen. I said the fall and the winter, I'm Okay, and that was like our first date. I was like spring and summer could be yours. And then all of a sudden she goes you didn't tell me about spring, turkey and everything. What the hell? I thought that was supposed to be mine. I'm like, well, sorry, I missed that one.

Speaker 1: 1:11:49

I did the same thing. I told Bianca just right away, like this is, is, and we got a strict like hey, listen, this, this is why this time of the year I'm not going out nearly as much, because I got that other, I got other things I need to do, so I had that time. But she likes turkey season actually, because I can only hunt till 12 o'clock, except for the last two weeks of the season. So you know I'm out of the house by two or three o'clock in the morning, so it's not even bothering her. You know, if she's going to work, by the time she's off at work, I'm back, I'm back home. You know what I mean. There's, there's no issues whatsoever. You know I'm back home. You know deer season's a little different because you know it's like, oh, like, hey, you want to go grab dinner? No, I can't, I'm just getting, I'm just rolling back in, I'm going to get into bed, fall asleep, and I got to wake up next Morning again and go go hunt again and it's so much longer. So you know that that is Just be very, I think, for the people out there, if any of the Younger guys are out there listening to us or ladies out there, like, just be Honest and, I think, be truthful.

Speaker 1: 1:12:55

I go right away just like, hey, listen, this is what I do, this is what I I love to do, this is my passion. You know, this is what my from here to here is going to look. Like you're right and you have to be flexible. Of like that's why I sacrifice a lot of my summers. Of like, hey, all right, summertime, that's your time. Springtime, you know, that's your time. You want to go date nights, you want to go do this, you want to go do that? Okay, we'll do it. You know, tomorrow we're going to the shore. I made sure no podcasts were scheduled for tomorrow. I made sure nothing. You know, as much as I would love to go scouting and and do stuff, we're going down the shore. You know we're gonna go spend some time down the shore and everything like that and just enjoy ourselves and that's a big key to to the relationship I would definitely say for for all us out there.

Speaker 3: 1:13:46

Yeah, yeah, my wife, she, she was, she, very understood standing at the time and she grew up in the hunting world. But I think for anyone that's out there listening that's not in, like a woman not in a hunting and going to be dating someone that is hunting. I think also from the guy's point of point of view, is, once I got married, a lot of it kind of changed, where I wasn't going out as much because I want to spend more time with my wife and uh. But also there's times where it's like I just want to get away, I want my time, so I'm going hunting. But when I started having my, my kids, I noticed I wasn't going out as much.

Speaker 3: 1:14:20

So for the guy that's saying right away, I'm gonna be hunting october through december, you're not gonna see me as much, and you start thinking, well, what if we have kids and he's not gonna be around as much? He might not, but same time his own personal way it's going to change because he's going to want to spend more time with you guys as well. So hunting might take a back burner, but he's still go out hunting. So is, for me at least, a lot of things change where I spent a lot more time with my family during hunting season too. So it happens, and but I still go out there as much as I can. Yeah, that's why the.

Speaker 1: 1:14:55

That's why the plan is to have a giant farm. I would say, honey, I'm going out back, just just send me a text message, I'll walk right in. Don't worry, I'm not going far like. I'll be right over there on the other side of the property. I'll be in my be in my spot. You know if you really need me, you know you could real quick jog right back in or take the electric bike, you know, back to your, your spot, do what you need doing up. I'm going right back out, babe, I love you.

Speaker 2: 1:15:23

I'll see you in a couple hours.

Speaker 1: 1:15:25

Kids are sleeping that's it.

Speaker 2: 1:15:27

Hey, I had. Yesterday I had to go move some trail cameras upstate. I brought them both with me. I had my little three-year-old son doing trail cameras. He was over there breaking sticks and doing whatever he was doing. My wife was just taking pictures. I was like this is perfect yeah, no, it it works.

Speaker 1: 1:15:44

Whatever, whatever way you could do it, I do think it's. It's a nice family outing too. Like I said, you know back to the beginning, like being in the outdoors. It's so good for for us, it's what we need. You know you can really decomp. You know back to the beginning, like being in the outdoors, it's so good for us, it's what we need. You know you can really decompress. You know you're out in nature and everything like that, and I think it's important for the.

Speaker 1: 1:16:01

Like you said, it's very important for the kids to, to get them out there in any way. You know shape or form and it's fun and it's creating memories. And you know he's going to. You know remember going with with dad to to go set up. You know trail cameras and you know soon enough you'll be, you'll be out there setting the trail cameras up because you're going to be too old to do it yourself and you know it's going to, it's going to work, work its way out and he's going to be like come on, dad, stop taking so long, like we're trying to get in and hunt and everything like that.

Speaker 1: 1:16:33

You know, stop taking so long like we're trying to get in and hunt and everything like that, you know? So, um, looking, uh, looking, gotta look forward to that. Just the memories, I, you know, when the kids get big enough, you know, that's the one thing like when we do have kids, like yeah, I'm looking, I'm looking forward to like the whole thing.

Speaker 1: 1:16:46

But like yeah really, I think I love hunting. I think like I love taking bianca out hunting, like it's a lot of fun seeing her go through the process and everything like that, and I couldn't even imagine what it's going to be like. You know, when you take your kids out and everything like that, like now you're really like this is our kid, Like this is what we're we're doing and you know you get to see him grow or she grows a hunter, outdoorsman or whatever she wants to do. So it's it's definitely a different, different situation and I think it's even more meaningful.

Speaker 2: 1:17:18

That's going to give us all a different side of hunting that we haven't seen yet you know, no, and even like, uh, when my daughter was younger, I took her out at a young age and you know she decided it wasn't for her and you just got to learn to be okay with it. You know I told her no, that's all right. Like you tried it, you didn't like it. Now go do something you like she still supports every time. You know now she's 15 she comes in. She's like dad, another deer head on the wall like, but you know she gets it.

Speaker 1: 1:17:49

Does she eat? Does does she eat venison and stuff like that?

Speaker 2: 1:17:52

she does eat it yep, yep, yep, she still eats it. So she just, she's impatient, she's like I can't sit and wait, hey, and you know what.

Speaker 1: 1:18:02

That could be something that you know. Maybe she works her way. It is hard being when you're younger. It is very hard to to sit there and be patient. Maybe that's something that changes, you know. But you know at the end of the day, like listen, she's also eating, you know whatever, you bring home.

Speaker 1: 1:18:21

So that's, I think, another important thing. There too. It's like she's eating clean, clean food and everything like that. She knows where her food's coming from and you know she's she's supporting, she's being supportive of the family in every, every way possible. That that you can yep. No, I agree. Um, so, brett, we're. We're gonna start wrapping it up here. I got a few more questions for you. We got our, our questions that we ask everyone on who's new we actually are. I gotta add you to this group because we're trying to set up our next uh round table segment and I think you'd be a perfect addition to to it.

Speaker 1: 1:18:55

So I'm going to add you to that group and we're going to be. We're we're going to be planning our next rounds table edition. But if you could hunt any animal, what is your dream animal? It would be two weeks anywhere. Money is not an option, it's all paid for and everything like that. What's the dream animal and where would it be?

Speaker 3: 1:19:18

I love the elk, my favorite antlered animal, but however it had to be the grizzly bear oh yeah I'm gonna do it with my bow I, I figured that I imagine alaska I imagine alaska

Speaker 1: 1:19:32

imagine alaska yeah yeah, I, I watched, uh, cameron haynes smoke a beautiful grizzly and that looked like oh my god, that hunt looks so insane and I've been watching a lot of grizzly hunts lately and it is on, it is on the bucket list at some point.

Speaker 1: 1:19:56

You know they are just like I love bear hunting and I've seen you know we've seen bear, black bear, but a grizzly bear or a brown bear or you know, a kodiak bear, jesus christ, they're just so big and we're not even talking about polar bears, like they're even bigger than than that. So it's like, how much bigger can these freaking animals get? But like, that is a hell of a hunt in alaska. That, that I like. That, I like that a lot.

Speaker 3: 1:20:24

Grizzlies, grizzlies are dope oh yeah, it's something I've been doing, want to do for a long time and it's on the bucket list, but will it ever happen? I highly doubt it, unless I win the fucking lottery, unless you got anywhere between $50,000 and $100,000.

Speaker 1: 1:20:41

Just you know when that lotto money comes in. If Brett ever wins, I bet he has his Alaska trip Already booked and planned. It's number one already. Yeah, Are you booked and planned? It's number one already, yeah, um, are you? Uh? Uh, do you like to eat snacks in the?

Speaker 3: 1:20:59

woods.

Speaker 1: 1:21:03

Yes, I'll eat like string cheese here and there so that's your goat, so that's your go-to uh snack string string yeah yeah, classic, that's a classic one.

Speaker 3: 1:21:18

Typical or non-typical whitetail. Oh man, man that you know, I think about this on a daily basis. I would have to say non-typical.

Speaker 1: 1:21:32

Ooh, I like it. If you could buy a property anywhere in the country, where would it be to hunt? Oh shit.

Speaker 3: 1:21:49

Because my wife and I are thinking about moving and I want to move to a state where I can hunt, and right now for me, oh man, I'd say Tennessee, just cause I love it.

Speaker 1: 1:22:07

That's a unique one. We've never had anyone say Tennessee.

Speaker 3: 1:22:11

Really no one said.

Speaker 1: 1:22:11

Tennessee. No, you know, you get those typical iowa um alaska we've gotten um the dakotas, I think we've gotten like kansas and like illinois, ohio, um, we got a jersey one um I think we got a jersey.

Speaker 1: 1:22:31

We got a jersey guy saying we got Montana, I think Colorado, but the South doesn't get. I just think it's different. I just don't, you know, the South doesn't get the love. I think the South it's just very unique and I think I was talking about this on one of the most recent episodes that we just recorded. The South, it's just different. You know, everywhere's different.

Speaker 3: 1:22:59

I would love to go down south and hunt deer and hunt other animals down there, because it's a completely different environment, different hunting tactics that you're gonna have to put in, you know, um my wife is from down south I'm not gonna name the city, but we go down there basically every year around thanksgiving and it's just beautiful down there and I've seen the deer that the deer have been produced down there. I was like, holy shit, I love tennessee. It's beautiful and let me tell you this if you've never been to tennessee, you go down there and you start meeting people. Everyone's like oh hey, how's it going? They're the nicest people in the freaking world, man. They are so willing to help you out and they're, just, like I said, the nicest people in the world and that's why I said that. That's why it's tennessee.

Speaker 1: 1:23:40

So I like it. I I respect it. That's pretty. We're pretty excited. I think we're going to a bachelor and bachelor party and down in tennessee, um, it'll be my first time. I've been looking forward to to go in there for a while now. Um, if you could be sponsored by one company, what would it be?

Speaker 1: 1:24:07

this is always a tough one yep I was thinking the hunting world, I would but I've had people use been able to tie in a cell service and also vehicles into the hunting world, Just to put that. So it does have to do with hunting. But if you could find a way where it's going to benefit you for hunting, I will allow it. So like, obviously you've had people with like dodge ram or you know, or like verizon for their self.

Speaker 1: 1:24:41

So you know what I mean. So if you, if you find a way where it ties into, it could be the most outrageous thing, but if it ties into hunting, I will give you that uh, it's a toss-up between under armor and magnus oh, under armor.

Speaker 1: 1:24:59

Okay, and magnus too. Yeah, listen, I under armor is a good. I under armor got a lot of heat for a while because that whole situation. Um, that happened I feel like six or seven years ago, didn't they drop. They dropped somebody, uh, because of some situation. But their stuff is beautiful. I do like their stuff. I rock their boots usually.

Speaker 3: 1:25:23

I do like their, their boots and stuff like that I just love the comfortability with it all granted at the end of the day, to political wise. Whatever you want to look at it and stuff like that, everyone's going to have their own opinions about it. But for me, at the end of the day, I just want comfort and a number gives me that. But then I also love magnus. It's my number one broadhead. I try to tell everyone about it and uh, so, like I said, it's a toss-up between one of those two.

Speaker 1: 1:25:50

If I had, if you forced me to pick one, it would probably be under armor yeah, yeah, um, if you could hunt with one person and I'll do a family member and then I'll also do like whoever else, whether they're dead or whether they're dead or alive doesn doesn't matter, they could be famous, whatever. Who would it be?

Speaker 3: 1:26:19

Family member would probably be, probably say my grandpa on my mom's side and someone that's non-family related.

Speaker 2: 1:26:38

Oh, fred, bear Duh, that's non-family related oh, fred Bear duh that's a popular one.

Speaker 1: 1:26:41

That is, fred Bear is a popular answer it would be him or Lee Lukowski.

Speaker 3: 1:26:47

It would be one of those two. Whichever one, came.

Speaker 1: 1:26:50

Whichever one came, you know, yeah, I agree with you that one. And then which other one came, you know, I agree with you that one. And then If you could change one rule In Michigan, what would it be?

Speaker 3: 1:27:04

Shit. There's so many that change. That's not even. There's so many things. I'm not going to say baiting, but I think baiting needs to be changed. I think it depends on how you look at it. When it would be moving hunting season, of gun season, november 15th out and I think I talked about it on the last show and they actually made a good point about it I think everyone's going to benefit from it. We're not just the rifle hunters and all the hunters in general, but I think even the deer itself. You're going to look at the people that are wanting to grow more mature deer and you're going to help please them too, but you're also going to help people get just put meat in the freezer. I think you're winning on both sides of the coin on that. So I think that's definitely one that I would change right away.

Speaker 1: 1:28:09

Gotcha. And last one, if you could hunt only one week out of the year, what date are you picking? What is your timeframe?

Speaker 3: 1:28:22

I'm assuming I'm going off of where I'm at here in Michigan. Yeah or yeah yeah, I'd probably go off of that I would say Halloween day, to like November 7th, whatever, something like that.

Speaker 1: 1:28:44

Yeah, another popular one. It's always, I swear, I think, always around Halloween. I love Halloween, I think it's one of my favorite times to be in the woods, even a few days before. You know, I, I love to just anywhere from that Halloween time to that beginning of November. November is just such a magical time to be in the woods and it's it's so unique you really can't, can't really go wrong. I the only thing.

Speaker 1: 1:29:09

I just wish the weather would kind of straighten itself out and we can kind of get back onto a more, um, normal pattern, and I think that's part of the issue why the rut hasn't been rut like lately. And I, I can't really, you know you can talk about this real quick before we we hop off, um, you know, but here in jersey it's just been like it's hot, it's cold the early morning, it's freezing, and then all of a sudden it's like 80 degrees in the afternoon and you're, you're sweating bullets because you wore, you know your thicker layer gear in and you know you're you should be seeing rutting action and you're really not seeing anything. And you're because there's a lot of midnight movement and and stuff like that, when the temps are cooler, of midnight movement and and stuff like that, when the temps are cooler. Um, you know, it's just, it just seems like such a bizarre, bizarre time to be right now.

Speaker 1: 1:30:02

Just how our seasons have been going, just that time frame is just not your normal and I feel like we're also yet again. Someone who's a biologist could be able to talk about this, but I always feel like it's either a little we're missing it or it's either in the beginning or it's just later, just because the temperatures are just so sporadic and things are, you know, just changing, and I know, I think that it does go off of the sun and everything like that, how much light they get and everything like that. But you know, the weather definitely has to play a factor as as well sun and everything like that, how much light they get and everything like that.

Speaker 3: 1:30:35

But you know, I, the weather definitely has to play a factor as as well yeah, and I always here in michigan, I always make fun of it with my wife. Michigan weather can't make up its minds like my me. Ask my wife what she wants for dinner. So it's like one day it's this, the next day it's snowing, the next day it's the 90s, you just never fucking know. So one week I remember it was a couple years ago where we had a straight week of high of 45, I think it was, and then the week after it was like high of 80. It I just you can't make this stuff up here in michigan. You just never know what you're gonna get no, it's, it's the same thing here.

Speaker 1: 1:31:13

It's, it's ridiculous, it's. I just want a normal winter with normal weather, and I want cold, I want snow. I want to know, when I walk out in the morning, that the outfit that I'm picking for hunting is going to be sufficient enough to last me the whole entire day. I'm not gonna have to strip down, basically, and, you know, just carry extra gear that I don't need to carry because it wants to be below freezing in the morning. And then, yeah, just all of a sudden just shoot right up and you know it makes it miserable. It just it. Just that makes it miserable. Just pick one goddamn weather and that's it.

Speaker 3: 1:31:53

Right, I don't like bringing out extra coats if I don't feel like I don't need it or won't need it. Exactly On Christmas last year it was 65 and sunny we had people out walking the golf course, playing golf, that's what it was like here.

Speaker 1: 1:32:10

It's short weather. I'm wearing shorts in the woods again, but, brett, it was absolutely amazing to get you on. I mean, we had such a blast, frank. Any last words?

Speaker 2: 1:32:24

No, just a question. Nice meeting you and it was a pleasure having you on man. Hope to do it again soon.

Speaker 1: 1:32:31

Brett's definitely going to be on again and, like I said, we like I said, we're going to add you in for our round table segment. We are going to be on his show as well, coming up soon, so we're really looking forward to that, brett. Any last words out there?

Speaker 3: 1:32:49

no, just thanks for having me on, guys. I really appreciate it. I know, like I said, you're coming on our show here Monday, july 29th. To date, I believe it is it's already on our YouTube page, so if you want to start pinning that, go right ahead. But no, yeah, again thanks for having me on, guys. I very much appreciate it. I had a lot of fun and learning a lot more and talking about a lot of things and, like I said, it's nice being in the passenger seat and just kind of going with the flow.

Speaker 1: 1:33:16

Yeah, that's what I'm looking forward to that, that's what I'm looking forward to.

Speaker 1: 1:33:20

I got two I'm recording, so I'm going. So we have. I think I have two episodes to record on Tuesday and then, I think, the next. Now I have three more coming up and then I'm gonna be on uh the buck, uh buck down podcast again and then I'm gonna be on yours again. So I actually am going to be in the passenger seat just relaxing, got I'm gonna get myself a nice drink, just sit there, put my feet up. Not really gonna have to worry about too much, just just talk hunting and not have to come up with what things to say and just answer questions. So I'm looking forward to it.

Speaker 2: 1:33:58

I'm gonna be just like you might throw a lip into, and then there you go.

Speaker 3: 1:34:02

It's kind of nice taking a little pressure off here once in a while yeah, no, I I definitely agree, but, um, you know everyone.

Speaker 1: 1:34:11

I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. Make sure you check them out. Their links are going to be down in the description below. I hope you guys enjoyed this episode and we'll see you guys next time.