The Garden State Outdoorsmen Podcast
Welcome to the Garden State Outdoorsmen Podcast, the ultimate New Jersey podcast for outdoor enthusiasts! Presented by Boondocks Hunting, we dive deep into the world of hunting, fishing, conservation, and everything that makes the Garden State a unique outdoor haven. Join us as we explore local hotspots, interview seasoned experts, share hunting tips and tactics, and discuss the latest in outdoor gear and regulations. Whether you’re a seasoned outdoorsman or new to the wild, our episodes bring you closer to New Jersey’s rich outdoor culture and community. Tune in and get ready to chase the unknown!
The Garden State Outdoorsmen Podcast
When a Beer Offer Leads to Friendship
Christopher Talmadge shares his hunting journey from childhood outings with his grandfather to rediscovering his passion as an adult and meeting fellow hunters through chance encounters on public land. He discusses mobile hunting strategies, tree selection techniques, and the importance of courtesy and community in the outdoors.
• Originally learned to hunt with his grandfather before life circumstances created a long break from the sport
• Reconnected with hunting by purchasing a bow and practicing until he met a like-minded hunting partner
• Shared story of meeting host Frank through a thoughtful note left on a truck at a public hunting spot
• Explores the unpredictability of deer patterns on public land, particularly in refuge areas
• Deep discussion of mobile hunting setups – comparing traditional stands to saddle hunting systems
• Emphasis on proper tree selection as possibly the most crucial factor in hunting success
• Debate on dealing with increased hunting pressure and adapting strategies accordingly
• Tales of navigating public land etiquette and encountering both helpful hunters and gear thieves
• Tips for reducing pack weight and increasing mobility for "run and gun" hunting approaches
• Insights on finding deer movement patterns by focusing on backside trails rather than main travel corridors
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back to the state outdoors and podcast presented by brood and that's why you're, you're um your tagline.
Speaker 1:Like you don't know what that means, accidentally drifted my canoe between a sow and a cub and she's like charged and like hit some hit like the back of the canoe head hit the ground before his ass did. Begging, begging and crying. To go with my grandfather, go with my father on these deer drives.
Speaker 3:You know, the last trip over I shot a great Cape Buffalo with my bow, charging through the grass and then the whooping and then you hear a body drop. Welcome to the Garden State Outdoorsman Podcast. I'm your host. Frank Mastica podcast. I'm your host, frank mastica I'm your co-host, mike nitre you got the good old squash hanging out today, ladies and gentlemen, we have a very special guest. I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go with christopher. I'm gonna let you do your last name, so I don't butcher it. Chris, please take it away.
Speaker 2:Wait, wait wait, wait, wait, hold on, hold on as the host. Frank, you cannot just delegate the last name to you.
Speaker 3:Gotta try you gotta try yeah you gotta try I gotta try. Last time I butchered squatches with maloney. Mine's a little tougher. Mine's a little tougher, it's a little tougher. Okay, I'm going to go with it's. Hold on Talamage, talamage.
Speaker 4:No, close, very close, it's Talmadge.
Speaker 3:Talmadge, see, I was close.
Speaker 4:It's close, better than some people Believe me.
Speaker 3:Christopher, welcome to the show bud. Thanks for having me. Absolutely.
Speaker 4:Man Appreciate it this is my first podcast ever.
Speaker 3:Yeah, actually that's right. It is your first podcast ever. We're excited that you know we were your first podcast, appreciate you coming on again, so why don't you give us a little backstory on how you got started, where you're from, you know?
Speaker 4:basically, tell us a little about yourself, chris oh god uh I mean honestly, I'm just one of those people that like being outdoors. I uh, I started out hunting young with my grandfather um, as a lot of people do. I'm sure it's like it's a normal thing. My father wasn't in the picture, but I had a stepdad who was a great guy, but he was not outdoorsy. He wasn't. He'd take me fishing, but he wasn't like an outdoors guy.
Speaker 4:So I hunted a bit with my grandfather until I was 12 well, yeah, somewhere around 12 and then, uh, you know, he moved quite a ways away and I fell out of it you know, even as much as I liked it, there was just no way for me to be able to do that with anyone else in my life because nobody else enjoyed like the sportsman stuff, like like the fishing, the hunting, that kind of stuff. And uh, I got older and I settled into my own life and uh decided I wanted to get back into it. So I, I went out I bought a uh, an $800 hat that came with a really nice bow. Um, oh wait, no, I bought a bow that came with a hat, my bad um, and uh, and I started shooting again, realized I still was actually a decent shot and remembered how to at least sight in a, a multi-pin sight, efficiently. And, um, you know, spent a year or two shooting and then, you know, really was like I, I really need to get back into this hunting thing.
Speaker 4:And uh, just so happened that I worked with a guy who was as crazy as I am when it comes to stuff. You know you get. I don't know if you guys are this way, but when you get into something you get into it like I. Uh, my wife gets mad about it. She's like your ocd really drives me crazy, because I obsess over things and I talk about them incessantly and it it really does.
Speaker 4:Uh, I'm sure it gets to her and uh. So you know, he was just like me and and ever since I've been hunting with him, we fish together and I'm just learning more and more about how to figure out where deer like to be. I've gotten really good at finding beds in the backside trails instead of like the main trails where you see them traveling on the front edges and things like that of you know ridges, that the one behind it where they're actually where they're actually traveling. But you know, as for me personally, you know, just a 45 year old guy with a two and a-old kid, just starting my family life and trying to enjoy, you know, meeting some good people along the way and really finally finding my niche in life, I guess.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, absolutely. That's actually how we met. That's actually a funny story. You want to tell the story Actually, how we met?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean, I just told the guys beforehand. I was actually breaking that down because we were waiting on you, so we started talking about you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because Frank was late again Gosh Frank.
Speaker 4:Sorry. So yeah, how we met. So I was heading out hunting one night and I didn't feel like sitting a stand. So I went to a field that I had a stand in the year prior to and I knew there were some good spots out there and I just decided to do a ground hunt. And I rolled in and there's this white truck sitting in there and I was like, oh, there's never anybody in this field.
Speaker 4:So, just on the off chance, even though it's actually the area we're in has a huge spread of where you can go. You actually can spread out pretty far from there. As compared to most of the places in the areas that we hunt. They're pretty like you got to go to the lot and kind of hunt that area, but this has a much larger area you can go. But I was like, just in case, let me write this guy a note. So I wrote him a note and um, it said, uh, you know, I saw your truck here, I'm going to be walking out into this area and uh, hopefully I don't blow out your hunt, you know, or ruin anything for you. And if I do, here's my phone number. If I, if I, blow out your hunt, you know or ruin anything for you, and if I do, here's my phone number. If I blow out your hunt, I'll buy you a beer.
Speaker 3:So I go in.
Speaker 4:Still haven't bought you that beer. By the way, it's all good, who's counting?
Speaker 3:You didn't say one Exactly.
Speaker 4:You did not say one I did not specify. That is correct exactly. I did not specify, that is correct. Um, so I scoot down into this back area where I know there's a swamp on one side and the river on the other and a good like it used to be an ag field up on the top and I was like I know, if I come down here, especially this time of year, I'm gonna see some sort of action. So I'm sitting there and hanging out and I see some deer up in the upper field in that, that ex-ag field there, and, um, so I hit a rattle and I call and this bruiser comes walking down and, uh, he's snorting and looking around and he's 60 yards across his field and I would have to jump out from behind some brush and take the shot. Like I told you guys, I wasn't gonna take that shot, I just can't. I don't have it in me to to to risk that. Um, so I sit back down, I'm waiting and, uh, sure enough, dark comes and nothing's happening and I go to walk out and I see this headlamp coming from across the small field that I was sitting on. I'm like that's got to be the guy, that's got to be the guy. So I kind of like walk over towards where he is and like, uh, flag him down and we start talking.
Speaker 4:I was like I left the note on your truck Cause you did. And uh, we just, we just shot the shit all the way out and uh, you know, and then, um, the key to my truck, I left it on the on my bed cover. And uh, I left. And uh, I never do do that. I took everything else, it's not my key.
Speaker 4:Get home, go to lock my truck. Can't find my key, you know. I hit him up, ask him if he saw it and he's like, no, I'll come help you look for it. I'm like, okay, so I went back we're looking for this key. Can't find it. I'm like, screw it, like we're never gonna find it. And I look between the bed and the cab of my truck and it's right down in between there and there's a rubber thing that sits across that just protects from water coming up and it landed on that and stayed there. The ride to my house, right back to the field and through the whole time I was looking for this key. It's in my in between the cab and the bed. So, yeah, what first of all, real quick.
Speaker 2:I just want to say I kind of love how you know and you get every once in a while people saying you know, you put a note, your number and everything like that, but no one I don't think has the sense of humor to say I will buy you a beer.
Speaker 2:I think that's like something people should start doing because you know you know how people get, especially on public land, like oh, this is my area, yada, yada, yada, and usually, sometimes it's not, it's not friendly encounters where I don't think you can like the minute you you see that like, oh, if I blow your hunt, you'll you'll buy me a beer. Like all right, like cool, this guy's gonna be like really cool. Like you know what that that's just going to spark. Like, even if you didn't run into him or lose your key, I would have still texted him like hey, you know about that beer. Like like I saw your note like hilarious, like that, that's like. I don't think I've ever had anyone like have heard anyone say say that like that, that's gonna be the new thing, I think, nowadays you know, you know that's pretty good.
Speaker 1:Chris said he's 45, I'm 50, that's the old school coming out. When we say hey, you know you guys want a beer, or you know, let's talk it out over a beer. You know that's the way that we were kind of brought up. You know you try to make friends with somebody, say hey, you know what, I'll buy you a beer. You know you try to smooth things over with that. That's. That's just from our time time frame. You know when we do it.
Speaker 4:I mean, I agree good, good question it was just one of the things I was always taught, like if you walk in to somebody's house or if you mess up somebody's day, offer the offer something nice. Like I've been, you know, I've been the not nice guy in my life. You know, I had a long period of time where I wasn't the nice guy and I was just a dick and there's no reason for that. And it went back to, you know, coming back into this fishing and hunting outdoors thing where it's a community and people really enjoy it. It just reminded me that you don't have to be a jerk. I would have felt bad if I blowed out somebody's hunt. Of course I'd want to buy them a beer or a sandwich or whatever. I just put beer because most of us like beer. Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2:I would have gone for a sandwich too, or a dinner or something like that.
Speaker 3:That would have been dope too. What else can I squeeze out of you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, like hey, you know, want to take me out on a dinner.
Speaker 4:See, that's when you start trying to get more out of it, though you got to start telling the story bigger. You got to be like. You should have seen the buck that was in front of me when you walked in, exactly. Oh yeah, of course. Of course you gotta pep it up a little bit if you're trying to get a dinner too. You blew out three of the biggest buck I've ever seen exactly.
Speaker 3:That's like one of the things that you know. Like, when I first met you, like I noticed about you know that you were, you know you were very down-to-earth guy and I could tell almost like right away. I was like you know like neither of us tried to hide that you know that that huge buck was there and actively, you know like, because most people on state land or whatever they're just like they want to try to hide that like oh, yeah, no, like no, I didn't see nothing. But in the back of your mind you're like, yeah, okay, bullshit, you know, but you know, and that that's that was one of the things. Like, when we were walking out, we were just like man, like did you see that deer? And I was telling you and I was like man, I sat in this stand for 12 hours. You were like what? I was like yeah, man, I've been here all fucking day. Like you know, like my back's killing me, I could barely walk.
Speaker 3:Like and I rattled them and I rattled him in, so you probably saw him at the same exact time I did huh yeah, yep, yep, I saw him at the same exact time because before before that, like early in the morning, there were, I think, like two or three other ones, not as big as him, but they were. They were. They were shooters, and they were on this one dough man, and that's that's why I basically stayed up there the whole time, cause they were, I mean, back and forth, back and forth. I was like any any time. Now they're going to slip up, she's going to bring them to me or whatever, and they just it just never happened.
Speaker 3:I watched them just keep going circles, doing laps, and I had no idea. You were even there. I heard the rattling and I was like man, that kind of sounds, like somebody. But you know, maybe it's not, maybe it's just me, you know like, and I was like. You know, there was a lot of different bucks in here, you know. So I was like maybe there's more on the other side where I can't see. But until I came out and I saw your light and you're like, you're like yo, man, what's going on? I'm so sorry, I was like ah.
Speaker 4:You know, the reason I rattled at that deer or at any deer, was because so where I was was across that little field from where my stand is now and the field was up to my right the old ag field and I saw multiple racks running back and forth. So I was like, let me see if I can piss one of these deer off, Let me see if I can just make one mad, maybe give it a challenge. And that's the only reason I rattled him. When that thing came out of the woods, like he came down from past your stand, he came down the edge of that field and walked out in front of me.
Speaker 4:And I almost had a heart attack when he walked out.
Speaker 3:That was a big deer. Yeah, he was very big deer because I remember I I think I had another deer sneak behind me, so I was watching that one. I just happened to turn and look up and I seen him coming off that field dropping down into that ditch into the swamp, and I was like holy shit, that thing's huge. You, you know so.
Speaker 4:Now just think if he'd have given me a shot and I'd have killed him. That would have been my first buck. That would have ruined hunting for me forever.
Speaker 2:Oh, of course, yeah, yeah, yep you know what I mean.
Speaker 4:Like I'd have been chasing 150s the rest of my life 100%.
Speaker 3:And then I would have been like I'm gonna take you up on that beer. I need some ibuprofen. I've been sitting here all day. I'm gonna need a whole bunch of stuff to make up for it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, but I mean, he was he was a tank no doubt about it, he was, he was a giant.
Speaker 3:I actually gotta send you a picture of another deer that came through after the rut past that same area that'll make your head spin oh, I'm sure I've seen some slammers back there, man especially back past your stand, if you go back past where the river turns there's that um, what do they call those?
Speaker 4:uh, oxbow, back there behind where you sit, I've been on that river in a kayak. I could see some moose.
Speaker 3:I mean, they're legit moose, yeah, not even deer and I, I know me and you me, and you actually had the conversation that you were telling me actually this past year that how, like a lot of the spots that you knew, like that, you didn't think nobody would be back there. All of a sudden, now there's stands everywhere.
Speaker 4:Everywhere, dude. We were accessing areas Me and my buddies were accessing areas from canoes and kayaks where you cannot walk to. We've tried, you can't, and we're finding stands everywhere, and they're new stands. So we don't know how these people are getting back there because they're not on boats. We'd see them.
Speaker 2:You don't think so.
Speaker 3:No, no, because there's only special, like, like on the refuge, there's only, like, special parking areas where, like, you have to park if you're going to access it, and usually there's. There's usually no trucks, maybe one or two, but like, there's usually nobody ever there. So that's why it's you think that you're safe, but like I don't know I blame Onyx, I mean. I'm just happy.
Speaker 4:Go ahead. I'm just happy to see a resurgence in people, because my first few years you didn't see anybody Like. I'm just happy to see people out hunting.
Speaker 2:I still don't see that many people out hunting. I still don't see many people out hunting where do you live? Well, I live in summit, but I hunt all over I really don't like. I don't like.
Speaker 2:I'll see a person like every once in a while gun season is completely different like it's a completely different story but for the most part, like I think this year I ran into, so in new jersey opening I don't even think I saw anyone really opening weekend, which was really surprising um, at least none of the spots that I hunted. I know obviously people are out, but not like none of the spots. And that I ran into somebody, I think, like two weeks later at one of my other spots, um, and he was from I want to say vermont, uh, because obviously jersey opens up before, so, um, he comes down here to to hunt this area, um, so he was here. And then I ran into another person who wasn't from New Jersey either and he was only here for, like you know, I think I ran into like three, three hunters who actually like, really like, were into it, kind of like how you know we're into it. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Two of them, though, were out of state guys. So that was nice. Like all right, you're not going to be here for the whole entire year, you're only here until your season starts, which that that was pretty cool. Um, and then one other guy. Um, and then I ran into a older gentleman, I would say like october-ish. I ran into one more guy and then, after that, I don't think, I ran into another bow hunter hunting, which was great. Like I'm not going to lie, like I know there's a lot, but like it was nice.
Speaker 2:Like but I know there are hunters, I know there's stands, I know there's cameras. How?
Speaker 2:many of them are actually bow hunters, though I don't, because the way it shapes out and everything like that, like you, it's just, it's a lot better with with the gun hunters, I think for for them, but for me, like it's perfect for me, like I love it, um, I don't mind, you know, obviously, yes, you do want to see more people to, more people getting into it and everything like that. I, I 100 agree with that. I do think there still has been an uptick in and hunting, I think even the license sales and like everything like that does show that, um, but I think a lot of it is also south jersey.
Speaker 2:Like I know south jersey is booming with with hunters for definitely for turkey, um, and I think deer season, everything like that. Obviously. Like I think south jersey is a real big where you know where you guys are. Here's a lot more land, a lot more woods and everything like that, so sometimes it might be harder to to see people. Also, I think for you guys too, the differences like and I and I hunt like up that way too and I hunt more like Southern and everything, so I see kind of both where it's a lot tougher hunting up by you guys versus you know, the more south you go, the more flat you are, so I think it's really not nearly as tough and everything. And a lot more of pockets of woods versus big woods.
Speaker 4:Big woods is harder. Yeah, big woods is a rock, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:There's no, there's no pockets of deer.
Speaker 2:there they're where they want to be, and that's it. It's a fun challenge.
Speaker 4:Frank hunts the refuge. The refuge is massive. These suckers swim back and forth across the river.
Speaker 2:Great swimmers.
Speaker 4:I've seen them do it while I was hunting. It drove me crazy.
Speaker 3:I was like I should be over there, yeah, literally when, especially when you got guys on the other side of like by the like the railroad beds and stuff, and they're kicking them back and forth like it just puts them all over the place, but it's like the really real they. I mean they just hide in that that super thick stuff, man, that we're like, oh god, there's no way you're getting them out like you need. You know, I mean they just hide in that super thick stuff, man, oh God.
Speaker 3:There's no way you're getting them out Like you need. You know you're basically praying to God that he steps out, you know.
Speaker 2:Frank was spoiled this year.
Speaker 3:How many hunts did you have at the?
Speaker 2:refuge this year.
Speaker 3:Believe it or not, I hunted the refuge like three times, I think Really.
Speaker 2:That's more than I thought you were going to say. I thought it was one.
Speaker 3:No, it was like three times I went opening day of bow season and then, I think, two more days during the week I went out and that's it.
Speaker 4:No shit.
Speaker 1:Frank was very lucky. He had a squatch and doubled Dublin as a deer recovery dog.
Speaker 3:Best of all worlds. What are you talking about?
Speaker 1:Mike was on one of those adventures with us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, frank cost me some money that day. I had to take a half day coming all the way up.
Speaker 1:He owed me some money.
Speaker 3:Yeah, maybe a beer.
Speaker 1:Maybe he could buy you a beer.
Speaker 3:I was just going to say I'll get you a beer.
Speaker 2:No, wait, wait, wait. He doesn't owe me a beer. I have two cases sitting in my garage of beer that he handed me the other day.
Speaker 3:He doesn't owe me a beer, he owes me dinner. How?
Speaker 2:about that? No, no, no, no. He owes me dinner.
Speaker 4:All right, dude I figured you were going to say that You're covering for the next three or four call-outs, right, if you get them a couple cases.
Speaker 2:Oh of course. That's how it works. I'm lucky enough.
Speaker 3:No, I was going to say I didn't really get out on the refuge much. I scouted a little bit. I saw a lot of tree sends. That's when I ran into yours and stuff, and that was it. I mean I basically was like all right, because now that I found one of my buddies, uh, he got 200 acres 10 minutes from my house on a private land, yeah. So, uh, you know, I just I focused my time to try to figure out that spot and you know I did pretty good there this year.
Speaker 4:So I was like ah, you know, everyone can can I buy him a beer?
Speaker 3:You can buy me. I don't know if he'll go for me. He might. It's worth a shot.
Speaker 2:Get in line.
Speaker 4:There's a line, it's true, yeah, yeah, it's true, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean it's an awesome piece, but I mean, you know, the refuge was always good to me. All those other years, like I've met good people and it was almost I noticed I used to see the most people like right when the rut started, and then it would die off again. So you would have like that week, maybe week and a half again. So you have like that week, maybe week and a half, and then it was like nothing again. You would see maybe one or two trucks and then it was like then during the gun season, you know one six-day firearm, then you would see like a good amount of trucks and other than that like that was it you wouldn't see many guys not like.
Speaker 4:It's been like that every year. I've hunted it. I think I'm on my fourth season hunting the refuge. You know opening days, pack opening days, pretty busy um, like you said, the week of the rut, um is always busy there and then it's just a ghost town until gun season yep, yeah, like even door muzzleloader.
Speaker 3:Like I used to hunt that a lot during the muzzleloader and I would literally drive around and see and four or five trucks on all the refuge property. That's it.
Speaker 4:It's still like that. Yeah, my buddy actually got one or two muzzleloader this year in the refuge. He did good. Last year he shot a frigging monster seven-pointer with his bow on Halloween, which is always the goal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the goal. Yep, yeah, yep.
Speaker 2:Go ahead Frank.
Speaker 3:No, no, I was just going to say actually I hunted the refuge on Halloween this year, halloween morning, I didn't go out at night, but I went in the morning. I didn't even see a damn deer, not one, it was very hot this. Halloween and this was my.
Speaker 2:I didn't see a deer this year. Last year I had a phenomenal. Two years ago I had a phenomenal Halloween hunt, but it was nice and cool. It was actually fall. This year was summer weather. That was the day where I saw like 20 something turkeys and I was yeah, I was trying to buy a turkey tag in uh in the uh in the saddle because they were making like they.
Speaker 2:They got within like I'd say like 40 or 50 yards and actually actually I think it got even closer. But I needed a hen to, I think. Just move past this tree and she would have been in bow range. So I was literally on the fun. They were like just shoot the turkey, just buy it buy, it buy it.
Speaker 2:And that was the hunt too, where, because I thought it was so hot out, I picked to go to a water source and I found a water source, so I went and hung that and I didn't hunt one of my spots that had a scrape and, of course, one of my shooters. That was the day my shooter came.
Speaker 2:And that was the last day I saw him up until after I killed my buck on November 19th. So I went from, of course, halloween to november, I think 20th, without seeing him and he was there that day and I was like you've got to be kidding me. I was like it was, I think, 80 degrees and I was so like. I was like I just don't get these animals. Like it's so hot out, you think this water source is going to be key. Like it was very dry.
Speaker 2:You know we had a drought and everything like that. This is actual like standing water. They're going to be here. Nope, all the way on the other side. Just, I was frustrated. I was very frustrated and you know I go all out on Halloween. I actually will wear like I got the black mat, like I dress up for halloween, not too crazy in the woods, but like I do the whole. You know, yes, I'm already colored and everything like that, so I don't have to do the the paint, but I I will actually fully black myself out, um, and everything like that.
Speaker 2:I got myself a little skull mask and everything like that just to get into the, you know, the spirit of halloween, and I just I the goal I will kill a deer, a buck, like that one year yep, yeah, we call them this.
Speaker 4:We call them the spooky deer, me and my buddies. Yeah, gotta get out there and get a spooky deer.
Speaker 3:That's it on halloween too, right? Don't you watch when you go out there?
Speaker 1:I'm always in costume, Frank.
Speaker 2:Yeah, come on, frank, you know better than that. Look at me.
Speaker 1:I'm a natural disaster, so you know. I'm scary enough on my own. I don't need to wear a costume up in the church.
Speaker 4:That's what I tell people. I'm like I don't wear the beard because I like the way the beard looks.
Speaker 1:I wear it because it hides the ugly oh that all this hair keeps me warm, man, when it's freaking nasty.
Speaker 2:It's the flavor saver whenever you're eating and you go that's right, oh, bianca. She's like oh, you got some food there, okay, cool, I'll grab it. I'll just like, yeah, like, just like. This is why I have the beard I can't have a submarine sandwich in this thing.
Speaker 4:I wouldn't even know it was there.
Speaker 1:That's how I survived.
Speaker 4:That's it, yeah mine was. Go ahead, no go ahead.
Speaker 3:I was going to ask you did you get a deer on the refuge this year? Missed that conversation before I got.
Speaker 4:I haven't gotten a deer since my second season back what what do you?
Speaker 2:think is contributing to that, like what? Because you, you know what you're doing and, like you said, you, you find the, that, you know those hidden trails, those back. So, like you, you, you know what you do. So what do you think is you're you're doing? This is, this is what we like to say. We do nine, nine things, correct. We just don't do that 10th thing, correct. Where it's going to get you that deer. What is like that one thing that you think you're missing right now, where you, you haven't been able to get a deer in the last couple of years.
Speaker 4:Well, my buddy tells me I smell like a bear, so that might be it. No, I honestly, honestly, it could just be my choice of trees, to be honest with you. Because, like this year, like I said, I saw seven shooters in one day at a stand, chasing all around me, didn't come in the shooting range. I also had another day. Bassett's Bridge, by the way, is where the other stand is, frankie.
Speaker 3:That's that stand.
Speaker 4:I sat that stand.
Speaker 3:I knew it.
Speaker 4:I knew it, and it's a tucked away little set. It's a draping, like you know. A tree drapes over and I've got nothing but like an A-frame that I can shoot at them in a couple directions. I think I counted 25 or 30. Does that day Never came within shooting distance, so I'm in the right spots. You know, it's just either the day like, and they seem like they were being chased, but I never saw a buck because they were just sprinting, you know, across, and then a different one would come out a different way, because they were just sprinting, you know, across, and then a different one would come out a different way. But again, you know, these animals are so fickle, they'll travel the same route, like like I had the same buck on camera for, I think, three weeks straight. Like walking past my camera same time every day, like non-stop. You know, little eight pointer. He wasn't a huge rack but he was shootable. I mean he was 120s, 130s. It's not something as a first buck, it's a great deer.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't you know?
Speaker 4:yeah, I wouldn't, I wouldn't you know, I don't score deer but like I can tell kind of where they range because one like my co-workers is just insane and he constantly tells me how big each deer picture is, and he's that kind of guy so I've kind of gotten a feel for it. But you know, a 120, 115, 130, I mean that's a great first year buck for anybody. You know he had a nice spread but I went and sat that stand, never saw him on camera again. So either I smell funny or my access is wrong. Who?
Speaker 1:knows.
Speaker 4:You know, but they're so fickle they could just change their minds and walk 20 miles to a different plot. If they're not on rut, they're moving, they're moving.
Speaker 1:It could have been somebody else too, Chris.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you're on public land, you have to take accountability, credit where credit's due.
Speaker 1:You got a camera up in your pattern, your buck. But a human. If they do see a camera, they may not walk in front of it. They may just say I see a camera, I'm going to scoot, but they're laying down human scent. Or, like you said, you don't know how these guys are getting into your back sections of where you are. Like you said, you don't know how these guys are getting into your back sections of where you are. A little pressure behind you could push a buck, especially an older deer you know four and a half, five and a half year old.
Speaker 4:Plus a mile.
Speaker 1:No ban in the area.
Speaker 4:No, they're not stupid.
Speaker 2:I'll also say this, and I do, like I said, you know picking, you know you've been picking the wrong tree. It is kind of like a people like I've gotten asked this question, like how do you pick the right tree? And it's like it's a hidden talent because, like I will, for for anyone who's picking the right tree, like you go there and you're like you're looking at all these trees, it takes me sometimes, um and I. That's why I have to get in the woods sometimes, especially for an evening, or like if I'm doing a morning sit, I will actually, like I know, sometimes I don't like to get in there pre pre-hang, you know a set, but a big part of why I do, though, is because, like, I want to make sure I'm picking the exact perfect tree, and if you go in a morning hunt in the dark in an area that you don't know, we've all been there, we've all picked the wrong tree and things like that, oh God so yeah, you're rolling the dice.
Speaker 2:So sometimes I'll just get in there and I'll just go like and I'll take it. Sometimes takes me about 30 minutes sometimes to pick the right tree and I'll even climb a tree and if I don't feel comfortable and I see, once you get up you get that that elevation. It's like all right, like no, I need to actually be 50 yards that way you know what I mean.
Speaker 4:I do that here.
Speaker 2:I killed out the saddle. That's exactly what happened. I got into a tree, wasn't comfortable in that tree, got down, moved maybe like 20 yards, got it and I killed the doe opening weekend for Jersey here out the south because I moved. You know what I mean. That's how I killed my buck this year. I freaking got into the tree, trail camera went off, went all the way in, parked myself right, you know, right where I needed to be, and killed the buck the next morning.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I don't have the mobility of a uh a saddle. It's not uh I tried to get you a saddle?
Speaker 2:yeah, no, no really, how come?
Speaker 4:how come? Oh geez. Uh, let's start. Let's start with uh, I'm not a heights guy. To begin with, I used used to enjoy heights. I was an arborist. I dropped trees for a little while. I rock climbed which you can all laugh that I'm scared of heights now, but I was a rock climber. And even the harnesses and the tied knots for climbing trees and rock climbing, I was never perfectly comfortable in them, Even when I was doing big wall climbing. You climb bigger. You know it's called big wall climbing. It's not bouldering, You're climbing an actual mountain.
Speaker 4:I bought myself a harness that was one of the better harnesses for like guys that were climbing, like Yosemite. I bought one of those because I wanted to be comfortable while I was climbing and I was just never comfortable in it. Um, I went to, uh, take my lineman's test. And even the saddle they use they're highquality saddles because those guys are climbing power wires Just didn't like it wasn't a fan. And I tried a saddle out that a friend of mine used Just try it low on the tree, just sit in it. I was just like no, it's not for me, it's just not something I'm physically comfortable. That's not a position I'm physically comfortable in If I can't be physically comfortable—.
Speaker 2:What are you hunting out of right now?
Speaker 4:Oh, I have hang-on stamps, hang-on yep, so why?
Speaker 2:Just curious like why, what makes you comfortable in a hang-on versus, you know, versus a saddle? Is it just the platform's bigger Like?
Speaker 4:what is it? I guess. So yeah, I can. I guess it's that, um, um, I don't know. That's a good question.
Speaker 2:Maybe it's that I'm not hanging against my weight you know that does take a little bit, like it does take a few times to get used to. Once you get used to it, it's like boom. But like for me, like even I was my first time and I'm kind of like a daredevil, like I'm, I'm good with like stands and stuff like that um, but once you get up there, it's like oh, you get nervous to even let yourself back it's like, but but then after you you just repeat it, but I I do get it.
Speaker 2:Like you know, heights isn't for everyone and listen, at the end of the day, like, what I like about the saddle is especially like early season, I can be just one stick up you know I mean, you look at one of our guys, um zach, he's barely even probably a stick up and he's killed some, some big deer and everything like that.
Speaker 2:And you hear about these guys just you know, just having the platform, just you know what's his face like. That's the cool thing about getting away with stuff during the early season versus, like you know, later in the year and everything like that.
Speaker 4:But you know early After the pressure hits, you got to be careful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, after the pressure, I would say definitely after the rut. You know things definitely do change. Things definitely do change. You know I always. But you know it's early. There's nothing like early season when it comes to pressure and being able to hunt and you just have so much cover and everything like that. So it is a bit of a difference. But I also see why you're more comfortable, though also on a full plan. And you know I know a bunch of people Dave was like that too.
Speaker 2:You know dave bought a saddle and everything like that, and he just couldn't couldn't get comfortable, and it's not, it's not for everyone see, I switched this year and I, like I fell in love with it almost instantly.
Speaker 3:And now, like I've I still have like a few like hang-ons and even like at my buddies and, believe it or not, like I went in. I went on it the one night after work Cause I was like I don't feel like climbing with the saddle right now I'm just going to go on the on, the hang on, and I was. I think I was more scared than I've ever been. I don't know what it was. I climbed it and I was like I guess because I'm not strapped in no more like I don't know what it was, but I got up in there and every time I would like I would sit down or like I would go to like stand up and move. Like I'm like why is my leg shaking? Like, and it never used to do that. I used to hunt out of them all damn all year. Never bothered me. Now I'm like, I'm uncomfortable with them.
Speaker 1:I'm the same way this and you know why. I figured out what it is. When you're sitting in a saddle, you're tethered to your hips, okay, and you're anchored out towards the tree to the center of your chest, so there's a constant pressure you have, basically it's. It's like it's like a safety vest, like you feel that, okay, you know, I know, I'm not going anywhere, I'm locked into this tree with that harness. Now, when you switch back and you go back to your old setups on a platform and you're sitting there and you're just tethered to that tree to your back, yeah, now you're like whoa, you know, hey, I'm, you lose your. You got like vertigo. When you're up there, yeah, you're looking at the tree and being rock solid with that saddle, versus the other way, where you get that vertigo. And I did it too. I had the same thing happen to me, yep because you're, you're free.
Speaker 4:You're your freedom of movement's there. There's nothing to stop you from. There's no point where you feel it constantly.
Speaker 3:Here you feel like yep, yep, no, that makes sense, because I was like, after this'm like I don't know.
Speaker 2:So on the windy day, and I'll tell you there's a difference. So everyone knows it was really windy, opening day of bear season and I was on a saddle and like it was just a windy, like you know what, like we're not going to see bears and everything like that, which no one did. You know, I thought I was like batman and it was kind of more of like having fun.
Speaker 2:I was like whoa, you know, but in a stand when it's windy, I always think I'm falling, like I legit always think like falling and everything like that and I just I think what out of my hunts this year, I think only the first two weeks not not including delaware, because delaware I had to use this I was in a saddle or on the ground, but in New Jersey I wasn't comfortable. I wasn't like it just felt, and it wasn't uncomfortable because I was the tether, I just didn't. My back started hurting. I kept moving because my thighs weren't like like I just couldn't.
Speaker 2:Now I'm so used to that pressure and just being in the saddle and just feeling fully supported and then having now, um, you know the um, the knee, the knee, um, I don't know what's it called again, uh, frank, it's the knee, it's like the knee pads, but it's not like um, our, the stuff that we use has this like specific thing, it's like a knee sling and it makes it very comfortable and it's a built in like back, so like you're not like hunched over and everything like that.
Speaker 2:So, but once you I got into the stand like I didn't have any of that. So I'm just sitting there like everything's starting to hurt. I'm getting sore, I'm just like, oh, like I just can't, I can't do this anymore. Like you know, I don't, I really don't like stands anymore, but I I mean you have to be comfortable, especially bow hunting. You have to be comfortable, whether you're using a climber ground, blind ladder, stand hang-ons, you know um, saddles, anything like that. Like you. You have to be comfortable. You know people that hunt 30 feet in the air and then you know um, saddles, anything like that, like you. You have to be comfortable. You know people that hunt 30 feet in the air and then you know people that hunt 12 feet in the air. You know, if you're not comfortable, you're not going to make a good shot and that's like that's just true yeah, you're not if you're not comfortable sitting or standing, you're not going to be comfortable taking your shot.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's just yeah. So I used to tell people when I rode my motorcycle why do you ride in a t-shirt? I'm like well, I don't do well in the heat, I sweat in the wintertime. Can you imagine me in a leather jacket? I'm not going to ride a motorcycle, I'm not going to ride a death machine while I'm uncomfortable, because it's just going to make it harder to focus on riding a motorcycle. Like you'll die, you know, and it's kind of the same in the, in the hunting, you take a shot where you're not comfortable.
Speaker 1:You're going to die because you know, metaphorically, because you missed a shot, because you were uncomfortable, you know one thing I'll tell you, chris, and and you know, if you, if you do get the bug to want to venture out and try to get into a saddle, a lot of guys use their platform rigs to start out with a saddle. You know you can leave your, you can leave your tree stand there, fold your seat up and use your actual platform that you're used to standing on what you're back towards the tree as a starter point to start you out using your saddle. And you know what it's if you've rock climbed, if you've been an arborist. I don't know if you're familiar with mad rock, but I use a mad rock. You know the the thing on your line to suck you up and pull you back on the tree. It's a very reliable, you know you're.
Speaker 1:It's basically like you can use it as a brake, you can use it to repel and I took the extra step. I mean it was $100 for that piece versus like the Kong. The Kongs are like $45, $50. Yeah, I got a Kong, but this thing has the brake built in. If you want to use it to repel, if you one stick, you can repel down and I like that, I like security, I like, like you said you. You bought the best harness when you went out and I was fortunate. I didn't know the first damn thing about um saddle hunting.
Speaker 4:Frank had bought the trophy line and uh, the harness I bought was rock was for rock climbing. I had never, I never bought a saddle ever.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But this what he showed me was I was like, wow, I gotta get that and I'm so happy I did. It works really good With the other group of guys that I'm with on another podcast. We just got hooked up with XOP.
Speaker 4:So XOP.
Speaker 1:Makes some really cool products. So, this year I'm gonna go with the one sticks, but I'm doing the three sections Because I want to get up a little higher Than what I normally do, because I like beating their noses. I don't like staying low to the ground. Just something to think about. If you need any help or you got any questions about it, man, just ask, we'll be glad to help you out.
Speaker 4:Of course, I definitely like the idea of being mobile. That's actually something I'm working on right now. Xop has a mobile setup, a running gun and uh and uh it actually. It actually has been very appealing to me because you can do like you would say in early season you can do some lower height hunts and, uh, I can bounce all over the place and just take it in and out with me when I go. It's quick setup, it's nice. So that may be my, uh, my answer to the saddle for me basically all that, all I do, I've run a gun I mean I do have a few set stuff just when I'm feeling lazy or like you know, whatever.
Speaker 2:But you know the guys I think, um, I think how many saddle hunts. I can't remember how many hunts I did this year. I'd say 95% of it was out of a saddle.
Speaker 3:Most of it was in a new.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I move a lot, I move a lot, a lot, um, so I'm constantly moving, um, and I love it. Like, if I don't, if I and I have a rule. Um, you know, I of got this from andrew. He's crazy and he does, I think, like he doesn't have a deer on camera, in like two or three days he will move his camera and everything like that. I'll I give it a week, um, you know, I mean, I don't have the time to be going out every like two days to move something, but I'll give it.
Speaker 2:I let cameras soak for at least minimum of a week, but I will bounce around that area and I have like every spot, like if I'm keying in on a buck, I'm running probably like five or six cameras on him and then I'm just literally just bouncing and hunting in a new tree, unless the only way I don't switch my tree is if I don't like, if I never, if I don't get busted and I'm good and I and I have that face like, oh, like I set up, like if I never, if I don't get busted and I'm good and I and I have that face like, oh, like I set up, like when I killed my buck, I got in there. They're all running around. I got up in the tree. If I would have gotten busted that night, I would have moved my set down, but I didn't get busted. Not not one single deer busted me. So I said, all right, I'm gonna sneak right back in here in the morning, so there's no point of me taking my stuff down. So I left everything up in the tree. I got, was able to sneak out, snuck right back in the morning, killed them, probably like 30 minutes later and I will do that.
Speaker 2:Like there's a few spots where I hunted, like the same tree, like two or three hunts in a row when I killed my doe in that where all those acorns were dropping If anyone listening who knows like I found hot sign this year, found acorns dropping sign everywhere, saw two of my shooters that same hunt when I found it and I got busted that day so I got busted in my tree.
Speaker 2:So I went and I moved my tree and I stayed in that tree for I think four or five hunts and I mean just deer on top of deer, just, but never got busted so I kept staying and it was. It was like the last day before bear season. So like a doe came in I was like all right, she gives me a shot, I'm just gonna take her because we're heading up to bear camp and I gotta go. I gotta go into bear camp hot. So like I need to make sure I get something on the ground, smoke that dough. But you know it's. I love moving around when you come up with a system to do it where you're not killing yourself and having 50 to 60 pounds on you.
Speaker 2:You you know if anyone knows my setup, my setup, I think, is like 30 pounds, 35, and I'm running. I'm running camera equipment too, so it would be even less without, without the camera equipment and everything like that. Um, but I'd say a good 30 to 35 pound setup running gun is pretty good. If you can get it in the twenties, I think you're're you're even better and everything like that. And I think, uh, your backpack, your pack, is a really important piece.
Speaker 1:Yes, everyone talks about.
Speaker 2:You know your stands, your sticks, your saddles, whatever you're into, I think one of the most important parts of run and gun is your pack.
Speaker 2:You can't you know, if, if you don't have a good enough pack, you can't have the the equipment that you want and you might have to get a bigger pack or or something like that so it can carry all the extra stuff. I also run three sticks. I think that's a huge key too. I run three sticks with double eighters on on two of my bottom sticks. I know you know, and I've been dabbling in going to, you know, squash, that, uh, that one stick method. I really have been dabbling in that. I once I really figure out and understand that I might be moving to that. Um, you know it's, it's a great setup and, honestly, if they can revamp and I I saw a saddle that revamped the um, the climbers where it's a platform that has.
Speaker 2:I looked into that and I was like, whoa, that might be a game changer too, like that's, that's pretty damn interesting, a climber, that's a a saddle. I was like, whoa, I, I looked at and then I saw the price and I was like, ah, whoa, I looked at it and then I saw the price and I was like, ah, maybe the fiance might kill me if I buy another saddle because I've bought so many. I have so many platforms. It's crazy.
Speaker 1:You know it's all about being lightweight. I mean, you know, the further you get back, the less you want to carry. And another thing I'm checking out this year too Is the Ring of Steps.
Speaker 2:By Wild Edge. Yeah, I'm going to get rid of probably the.
Speaker 1:I'm probably going to try to get away from the platform Because I don't need seven pounds of platform there. You know, to carry around If I can do this all with the Ring of Steps, your platform's seven pounds. No, I mean the whole setup's seven pounds. Oh, okay, okay.
Speaker 3:I was about to say how I missed the set up seven pounds. But okay, okay, no, no, I'm just yeah, well, you know I'm 250 pounds, I got.
Speaker 1:I got shit made out of ibeam to hold me up in the tree my whole hang on.
Speaker 4:It's only 11 pounds.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, no, no yeah, the whole set up seven pounds. But the ring of steps, uh we, we were talking to a guy on the other podcast and he said you know, I one stick it. I take you and this guy had a prosthetic leg. That was the amazing thing. This dude was doing one stick prosthetic leg and freaking, using the ring of steps to stand on, and I was like, look, if this guy could do it, there's no reason why the hell I can't do it. It's just practice.
Speaker 1:And the cool thing about the ring of steps is if you got a buck, it surprises you. It comes from a different direction. I mean, you can take your tether and just kind of loosen it a little bit and scoot around the tree on those ring of steps and you don't have to worry about your weak side. You just let it rip, man, and get on that buck. So and it's less of a silhouette, you know you're taking your stance down a little more, you're not having something there, so down a little more, you're not having something there. So it's just food for thought, man. But any, any way to like lighten it up, to get in and out is just a benefit on your part, especially if you're getting back, man.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's why I'm switching to a lighter backpack. I've been still trying to get my hands on the arsenal backpack yeah since freaking the gray american outdoor show. They sold me on it and I've been checking the website like every day and they're always sold out. But cause I think right now I'm using um like the top, I think I got one from Tideway and it's good and all, but I want one for especially like early season, cause it's so damn big and heavy. I want like something.
Speaker 2:Oh, you got the big one.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I got the big one I used that two years ago.
Speaker 2:That's there, dude.
Speaker 3:They don't make a smaller one be honest, I I haven't even checked. Yeah, I saw that one from arsenal and I was like, oh man, they kind of had me sold on it, so I haven't even checked tidely though, but let me check right now I can check, I check.
Speaker 4:I've got two packs. I've got one small. It's my regular hunting pack. It's tiny and I use that anytime, it's not the rut. And then I have my vision. I have one of the Frogtogs vision packs. It's got the bow holder in it and it's massive. And come the rut, that thing comes with me because I stock up on all my crap because I'm going to be in the tree. One I'm going to be in the tree all day. Two, I got to carry my rattles, my call, my snacks, so I take that giant pack with me.
Speaker 4:My buddy makes fun of me constantly. He's like why do you take that? I was like why do you take that? I was like I only take it during the rut Because I need all of my gear and it's not going to fit in a small pack. But I've been toying with the idea of actually switching to a chest rig system. There's a couple of really nice ones out there that you can have add-ons for and you basically get. You know, it's just a chest rig with a with a bino holder, and then there's add-ons that you can put on either side for like uh straps and and all kinds of other you know fun toys and stuff, and I've been toying with the idea of that because that makes you a lot more uh, excuse me, uh a lot more mobile. If, uh, if, like I do switch to a running gun setup, I wouldn't have to have a pack with me, I could just have my gear and my chest rigged.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I agree, especially on a huge piece like the Refuge. You almost need a running gun setup at some point because it's just so much ground to cover and, like you said, one time you see them here and next time they're over there, just like anything else. But it's like I noticed when I hunted the refuge. It was almost like they were unpredictable you might have like one herd that you could kind of maybe figure out, but I mean, they're just all over the damn place. That's another reason why I switched to the saddle.
Speaker 4:They never seem to settle in in the refuge. Like I said, I patterned in the four years I've hunted that I've patterned two deer and that was it. I had never patterned more than that and that's not normal. Like zone eight, if you find a deer and he's traveling the same road, same highways, give or take, he's going to be there. You know he's going to show up. If you have your camera facing where he's walking, you'll catch him throughout the whole year, until late rut when they start chasing off and they've already bred out and they're looking for new stuff. But they'll be there. But they'll be back in the refuge. You might see 12 different deer in a week and never see the same ones ever again yeah, no, it's wild, I think it's.
Speaker 3:I've me personally, I think it's the food, like the food source, the lack of food. I feel like they use, you know, I feel like they use the refuge for like their sanctuary and to go in there and hide and con and travel back and forth. But that's why I, you know, in my opinion, that's why I think that they're not that patternable, because there's no food, like you have the egg, corns in there, but other than that, it's kind of like they're nomadic.
Speaker 3:Everything's overgrown. You know like a lot of times you go to spots, they walk right by you and you don't even see them.
Speaker 2:You know, it's just crazy the smaller pack I put in the chat there, frank. Oh, perfect, I have the big one too, but that's the smaller one.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to.
Speaker 2:I mean I might get it, just because I mean might as well, being with Tideway, I got to start using more of their stuff.
Speaker 1:You know, I have their boots.
Speaker 2:And listen. I plug on Tideway. I do love their stuff. I have their waders, love them. The turkey backpack is absolutely phenomenal. Anyone, I know it's sold out right now, but whenever it comes in stock and you want it, let me know. I'll give you guys the what's the space for you. It would help us out here at Boondocks Hunting, but that backpack is wait until you use it. The what's the space for you. It would help us out here at boondocks hunting, but um, they're, they're back. That backpack is wait, wait till you use it there's been a couple of those backpacks.
Speaker 3:I heard that came with ammo in them too yeah, yeah, yeah, it's only special ones, though you have to be at the special place to get it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you have to be at the. You have to be at the Boondocks hunting wild game dinner to get the backpack with the ammo. So next year, ladies and gentlemen, make sure you guys come and buy the backpack that has the ammo in it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, only the best TSS in there. I mean not no cheap ammo either.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, not cheap ammo we don't have cheap ammo and if you don't want it, give somebody ammo. We don't Not cheap ammo.
Speaker 4:And if you don't want to, did he accidentally give somebody ammo?
Speaker 3:Yes, it was a long story.
Speaker 1:He accidentally gave somebody his vest. Yeah, the whole thing.
Speaker 2:You know we do, I don't know. We do a wild game, we do annual events. Every year, we do a game dinner and then we do a wild game. We do annual events every year, we do two. We do a game dinner and then we do a boat shoot, everything like that. So at our game dinner we had the Tidewee turkey vest with the built-in, basically chair and everything like that. So I bought two, one for myself, one for whoever, whoever's gonna win the raffle. So on display I put up mine, which had my ammo in it, had my batteries to one of my camera, had my actual waterfowl choking it and everything like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it had more than so I could actually add a decent amount of stuff and I put the box like yeah.
Speaker 2:I said, hey, listen, like this is mine, it's on display like what's the space? Um. But I think only a few people heard that because it's right in the beginning and not everyone was there. So, whatever we get into the thing, you know where everyone's having fun. I'm having fun. The last thing I'm even thinking about is this the guy gets up there and he says he wants the vest. I'm not thinking about anything. He grabs the vest and I'm like all right, whatever right, not thinking about holy shit, he just grabbed my vest and didn't grab the one not until later after frank calls me uh
Speaker 2:yeah, uh, has your, has your vest. And I was like, oh shit, he does. And I thought like, hey, listen, I don't really care about, but I need the ammo Like the TSS. That's expensive stuff Like I want that back, I don't care, you can keep that. And this is. I didn't even know I left my batteries. I didn't know I left my waterfowl choke in there, like this was before. I thought it was just the ammo that was in there. I'm surprised I didn't leave money in there. My wallet wasn't in there, like I sort of had everything in there, but yeah, that's great.
Speaker 2:But the boots. So now I use Tideweez boots. It's the insulated one. I really only use them during waterfowl, when we're not really moving around in the blind, and everything like that, or like a hunt, where I don't have to walk far. And I did. We did some walking opening day, turkey season, and I left my, my main boots, the boots I use at home. So the only thing I had were these big-ass, freaking boots. Made it halfway through blisters just on the and I felt it coming and I had like every step I was like, oh my God, like this is brutal. It got so bad that Peyton and Justin, like I, was like listen, just go, I'll catch up with you guys, like don't worry, like it was hurting.
Speaker 4:I start leaving behind where you did they left me behind.
Speaker 2:I I said screw this, took off my boots, walked barefoot the whole like mile no way mile and a half back, walked barefoot.
Speaker 2:My socks were soaked. I only stepped on three, three thorns thank god, only three. Um, I thought it was gonna be a lot more. I thought it was gonna be a lot worse, so then I switched to my running sneakers, because that's what I have in the truck and I use those. So those are completely destroyed in mud. All my patients are like why are your shoes so muddy? I was like, yeah, fun story. But besides that, though, those boots those Tidewee boots are actually phenomenal. They do work really well. Just not, they're just not for me to go hiking. I think we did like six. I think I put in like six or seven miles that day.
Speaker 4:Those boots were not made for walking. No no no, they definitely, those definitely were not.
Speaker 2:And I think they're like, you know, with boots. I didn't know what size. I'd rather get a little bigger than get smaller, especially during the late season. You put you know, some old socks in. If you got to, you know, if you got to throw the heated, the heated stuff in there, you get a little bigger. These things are yeah, I had regular socks on stuff in there and you get a little bigger. These things are yeah, I had regular socks on. They were rubbing like crazy. It was not made for for that out.
Speaker 3:Your boy was hurting, your boy was hurting and the good thing is if you guys ever hunt with mike oh just if you ever need anything. His trucks got it. I remember I pulled up there. I was how much shit do you have in your shoe pocket? He's like anything you want, I got you. He's like.
Speaker 2:I live out of it, I legit, and so during the hunting season, everyone knows like one, you have all your stuff in there. Listen, I have clothes in there, like just because, like I am always constantly like somehow getting soaking wet. I you know something, I hunt in the rain. So like I need to have, like I run, I think, three different pairs of boots. I have, I think, especially during deer season. You know I have my killing hats and if one's not working I gotta take it off and grab another killing hat and the gotta get the mojo going. Like I try to keep as much stuff in my truck because you just never know I have liquid ivs in there. I have immune like as much stuff in my truck because you just never know I have liquid IVs in there. I have immune, like my immune stuff in there when I start getting a little sick, like I have.
Speaker 2:You know, you got to have everything in it, because this is what we do we're traveling around, we're hunting and everything like that. You know. So if I don't got it, frank's got it, because, frank though you can't say that like I was missing stuff and you have it yeah and I imagine. If you don't have it, squash probably has it.
Speaker 1:Oh, I got a whole bunch of shit in my truck. Let me tell you you should see american mike's truck too.
Speaker 2:American mike has american. The only difference between american mike's truck, and probably like my truck and maybe like his stuff, is just very organized like he, and that's why I need to start getting more boxes and I'm going to start getting more boxes and labeling them and everything like that.
Speaker 2:Like you're just there's just gonna be boxes in my truck of the, the bins and everything like that, just to keep everything organized, which is yeah, no, which is really smart. I told him I was like damn, this man's thinking, uh, he's got that high iq over there so I got I got two questions.
Speaker 4:One why is he called American Mike and you're not Because you're?
Speaker 2:obviously.
Speaker 4:American, and you're Mike.
Speaker 2:He's told this story on our podcast before, I think multiple times, but that was his name before. Like, we even met him, like that's what everyone? Yeah, yeah, that was his name before, like we even met him, like that's what I'm like. Yeah, so like when I actually hit him up to come on the podcast like he was, it was like american mike, like I guess his family or friends, like how he introduced himself he's not, he's not like he's. He's guy in ease too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's, he's guy it's the furthest thing from american that you can. You can good thing, but he is oh, that's funny he's 100 dedicated to america.
Speaker 2:Like america oh hell, yeah, you know he oh yeah, he is like he's a I, I, I got, I can't remember. I'm gonna have to ask him. We're you know that's a good question. Next episode we're gonna have to. I'm gonna get that answer and I'm gonna tell it right in the beginning of the of the episode. Frank, I'm going to be like alright this is why American Mike is called American Mike and it's not. America, it's Mer-E-R-I. Mer-e-r-i, and that's what everyone calls him American Mike alright.
Speaker 4:Second question how many steps do you think Mike would have made it in a refuge before he stepped on a thorn?
Speaker 3:barefoot, frank oh, please uh one, two yeah, yeah, I was gonna say like there's so many thorns there's so much, oh man it's crazy I got lucky I really did.
Speaker 2:This is like I don't really normally hunt this spot that we're at, so like I got pretty lucky. I also try to know, like when I'm at home, like I walk barefoot like a lot outside and everything like that, just because I I think it's like you know, I work out sometimes barefoot like outside and everything like that. But listen, you never know when you're going to be in a survival situation and if I got to walk barefoot. I got to know I can be able to walk barefoot these feet need to be strong.
Speaker 3:You're going to have one up on me for that yeah, I'll be making sure.
Speaker 2:I also eat bobcat, frank. I already got one up on you, you don't?
Speaker 3:yeah.
Speaker 1:I've had Chinese food. Oh, that's true. I no, I've had chinese food, you know? Oh, that's true I've had chinese food. I've eaten plenty of cat in my day?
Speaker 3:uh, chris, I was gonna ask you real quick. So so, being on the refuge that you hunted there for all these years, has ever? Has anyone ever like ever touched like your cameras, your tree stand Like? Have you experienced any other like anything like that?
Speaker 4:I can't say that I have. I had, so I have the. I obviously have mobile cell cams. I had a warning from one of them this season towards the end of the season that it was missing its memory card and I knew I hadn't touched it but then it came back online like an hour later. So Huh yeah, and I've never had that problem with any of the I run Moultrie cameras and I've never and I've never had that experience with one of them where the card has gone bad or something like that, and it says all the cards missing. I've never had that experience with one of them where the card has gone bad or something like that, and it says all the cards missing.
Speaker 1:I've never had that before.
Speaker 4:So I'm pretty sure somebody went in and checked the card and it's stuck it back in there.
Speaker 3:Then put it back in there yeah, no, that could be good I had.
Speaker 4:I had a real problem. I used to hunt the watershed over here too. And I had a real problem. I used to hunt the watershed over here, too. I had a real problem. People literally taking my stuff, taking my memory card out and leaving nasty notes and shit like hey, this is my area.
Speaker 1:Sounds familiar, huh, Mike.
Speaker 4:Yeah right, Mike had a couple instances. Somebody pulled down a couple of my sticks and took a memory card and then left a note saying this is my spot. Now I know where your deer are. It was just petty.
Speaker 2:I never got the note, but that's some wild shit is to take Not only just you do something. That's just like you're not a real outdoorsman if that's what you do.
Speaker 3:But then you write a damn note. That's ballsy, absolutely man.
Speaker 4:Oh, I don't know, I don't know. Those three people die, man. I tell you, I'd love to run into them and see what they had to say about it.
Speaker 3:That's for sure, absolutely I was I was telling mike, the only instance I ever had. The whole, the whole time I hunted the refuge just was like I don't know, going back maybe six, seven, maybe even eight years ago. Uh, I went in to, to one of my, my sets, actually right where we met, but I had a set that was a lot closer and I had a lock on there with my sticks and I hunted it. Never seen not one truck, no, none.
Speaker 3:In like two weeks, it was like during the early season, and one day I got out of work, got dressed, headed into the stand. I climb up on the first, the first um stick part. I go to get on the second one and I noticed all my, all my pins were missing that actually connected the sticks together. Somebody climbed the tree stand. I don't know if they hunted it or not, but when they came down they must have pulled all my pins out. So I was on the first set when it's when it dropped a little bit and that's what made me. And then I looked up and all and I could see all the other pins were missing. I would have liked to run into that guy. I was fuming because yeah, that's a danger.
Speaker 2:Well, I told you somebody stole all my straps right there. I tell you guys that at one of my spots someone stole all nothing else, just the straps off the sticks. So, like, the sticks are still like. This is one of my old hang-ons, that like from like, probably like, probably at least 10 years old now. Right, and I went there. Everything's still there, except for I went. I was like these motherfuckers took the straps to my sticks, like what the that's?
Speaker 2:so weird nothing, and oh no, and they also took my old muddy um, uh shit, what the?
Speaker 4:hell is it?
Speaker 2:called muddy. No, no, my camera, my camera arm, that thing is like 40 pounds. So like I know, I didn't care about that. That was in that thing. I don't even use that, haven't used, I don't care. Dude thing. So goddamn old and weighs like a ton. Like why would you steal that? But why would? You steal my straps yeah, if you're gonna steal everything, just steal it don't just take like make it make sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, people are something else you know.
Speaker 4:see, that's the thing. These people see somebody's stuff and they figure they're going to mess with it. I see somebody's stuff and I try to find my way away from it.
Speaker 4:I want to leave them to hunt in peace. I don't want to mess with their crap. I've literally walked up and waved at their camera, gave a peace sign. This past year we printed up If you ever find this on your cameras, just so you know it's me and my buddies and you don't have to worry about it. We're not messing with your stuff. We printed up these signs and laminated them. We all have them in our packs. It says we've been trying to reach you about your car's extended warranty.
Speaker 2:There it says we've been trying to reach you about your, your car's extended warranty. You guys are funny. You are like I would like you to run into my stuff and like, offer you know me beer and like now have this funny thing. That is just great, I love that yeah, we.
Speaker 4:So whenever we see like we're all out scouting together, one of us will take the sign out if we see somebody's camera and we'll just'll just sneak up behind it and just hold it in front of it. Or one of us will just stand there smiling, holding it and right in front of the camera and we can kind of reach you about your car's extended warranty and then we leave.
Speaker 3:That's hysterical man, that's great. So now, if I get one, I'm not buying it.
Speaker 2:No, Frank, you're not getting that. They're just going to moon your camera.
Speaker 4:Yeah, probably now, if I know it's Frank's stuff, I'm just going to give him the old nipple.
Speaker 3:I'm going to pick up my shirt and just pinch my nipple and walk away, as long as you don't put the deer head in front of it and make me believe that there's a fucking giant buck and that I'm there all week and I don't see shit.
Speaker 4:Did you guys see the thing it popped up on Facebook of the guy with the little kid, and one of them dressed up as Chewbacca and the other one's dressed up as an Ewok?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 4:So good. I would love to do that to my friends.
Speaker 3:I just have the time One day One, yeah, one day, one day.
Speaker 1:One day yeah.
Speaker 3:I love stuff like that. Yeah, I think it's about that time.
Speaker 2:Let me just say I don't think we really hit one damn topic of really conversation. We introduced ourselves and we generally just had a conversation the whole entire time and I think that was one of my most favorite recordings that we've done, because generally, when there's no disrespect to anybody else out there, I mean, you know, I love every podcast episode that we do, but like this one didn't even feel like a podcast. Could we literally just talk through the whole entire, not one question just like, yeah, we're just going to talk about every random thing about hunting, but this is what we're about, this is what makes things so fun. I truly, man, I got to say it was an absolute pleasure having you on.
Speaker 4:We're definitely going to have to get you back on. Oh 100%, oh sure, Of course, yeah, anytime. This was a good time for me. It was your first one and it was amazing, bro.
Speaker 3:I mean it was, oh, thanks Again. We appreciate you having you on and you know, like Mike said, we definitely got to get you back on because you know it's been a great time hell, yeah, I'd love to come back on anytime, man, awesome, I'll.
Speaker 4:Uh, maybe next time I'll inform you guys on my next fishing trip I'm going up to uh, was it Roscoe, new York? How? Are you, I go up every year. We go fly fishing, me and my buddy. We spend four or five days up there just playing with the tributaries hitting the main rivers. We may second this year until the sixth.
Speaker 1:Willow, weemock, beaverkill, I know them all. There's what?
Speaker 4:Six Blue Ribbon Rivers within a five mile radius, or something like that.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, it's insane.
Speaker 4:They call it Trout.
Speaker 1:Heaven. They call it trout heaven USA trout, trout, what trout town, usa trout town. That's what it was yeah, you know, I fished all that before it was even like all blocked off with artificial lures, and I was just telling Frankie this story the other day yeah, we were talking about when I was a kid.
Speaker 1:We'd go up to Roscoe. My buddy had a camp there real quick and it was artificial lures only they just had switched it and I was used to fishing with, you know, worms and everything else up there. We always killed it. So I said to my buddy I'm like hey, do you got a chamois cloth? He's like yeah, why I use it to clean the truck. I'm like I need a strip of it. He's like what the hell you gonna do with that? I'm like, just trust my fly.
Speaker 1:No, I made a mock worm. I made a mock worm out of that chamois cloth. I put it on the hook and a DC officer watched me. He thought I was putting worms on the hook and casting him because I was getting a creole full of fish. And he's like All right, you know, this is artificial. Only, I'm like that's exactly what I'm using, sir. And he's like bullshit, that's a worm. I said no, it's not. I said it's a piece of chamois cloth. He goes kid, that's pretty freaking ingenuitive. He goes I got to give you credit. I thought you had worms on there. He's like all right, well, I can't write you something that's artificial. I was like adios amigo.
Speaker 1:Quick question Do you know why they made that rule? Yes, because they wanted it to make it more of a sport fishery than an actual kill fishery they wanted to bring it more of a fly fishing artificial lure realm breed bigger fish, make it more of a fishery. That's the only reason why they did it reason why they did it.
Speaker 4:That area up there also houses one of the last true wild fisheries in the Northeast.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of native browns in there and stuff like that that make it a really good fishery.
Speaker 4:It's a fantastic fishery and they want to protect it. Running the artificials brings in a lot more fly fishermen, but it also brings in the spinners, and those are all travels. Chris, are you on?
Speaker 1:social media how do we find you on here on the social media stuff?
Speaker 2:Thank you, because I asked Frank and he even texted me back.
Speaker 3:I was rushing to get on. I was going to send it to you after.
Speaker 4:I'm sorry, man.
Speaker 3:I'm sorry because, I do.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry because I do two podcasts a week, which you got everybody in.
Speaker 2:It's a habit. I'm sorry. Frank's in the doghouse right now.
Speaker 3:I dropped the ball today, guys. He's in trouble now.
Speaker 4:You can find me at Christopher Talmadge on his Facebook. He's in trouble now. Yeah, no, you can find me at. Christopher Talmadge is Facebook. It's K-R-I-S-T-O-P-H-E-R. And then you can find me on Instagram. It's K-R-I-S 07-860.
Speaker 1:We'll make sure we have a link below 07-680.
Speaker 4:07-8-6-0. I'm a very simple guy. I'm mostly caveman, so that's why I'm on an iPhone right now, because I don't even have the internet in my house.
Speaker 3:Nothing wrong with that man, Nothing wrong with that. But, Chris, we definitely have to get you to one of our 3D shoots. We got to get you to our game dinner. I think I had asked you the one year, but you couldn't make it. But we definitely have to get you out. That way you can meet the rest of the guys in person. I've already met you. You only live like 10 minutes from me anyway, yeah.
Speaker 4:I'm real close. But yeah, I'd love to make all that stuff. Absolutely, keep me posted.
Speaker 3:I have a toddler in the house, so my schedule's a little crazy, but when I have time, I'm always up to do something. Awesome man. Hey, if you ever need anything, just feel free to reach out.
Speaker 4:We should definitely hunt together. You guys don't want to hunt with me. You won't shoot anything, that's alright, that's alright.
Speaker 2:We get to just make fun of Frank, that's all. Hey, listen, no Squatch gets it On the other show. Those guys are always going at it. We gotta go at it with Frank over here.
Speaker 3:Fair enough, it's all good.
Speaker 1:We go pretty hard On Fort.
Speaker 4:Brett.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so If you guys are interested in finding out a little bit about me, I'm on the Whitetail Advantage on Sundays and Tuesday nights. Our new time is now 8 o'clock. That's with Brett Boven, and yeah, here we go.
Speaker 4:Brett Boven's host. Mike Nighttray, Not Mike Nightt.
Speaker 1:Trey, and and, and, and, and, and, and and and not Mike Night right.
Speaker 2:David Heath Whoa wait, I'm on the, I'm on the uh Whitetail Advantage podcast. Johnny Night you didn't tell me that no you're, you're taking it over the chase, the unknown as well, and I'm just going to the white tail there you go you just just like that you know why?
Speaker 1:you know why because you guys are coming on next week.
Speaker 3:So yeah, I know, that's what I'm looking forward to having this on.
Speaker 1:But uh, yeah, instagram, outdoors and more of the squash. Chris, I hit you up with a follow. And uh, youtube as well. You know, I got the outdoors and more of the squash on there. Check out my videos, subscribe, like and share. Man, I'd appreciate it.
Speaker 2:I'll follow you too.
Speaker 3:Once Frank sends me your, I'll do it right now All right.
Speaker 2:Anybody else got anything else you want to say besides busting my balls today? No, I mean, I think we're good, I mean guys, I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. The game dinner hold on wait, not the game dinner.
Speaker 1:The bow shoot.
Speaker 2:We will be letting you guys know that should be being released soon. No-transcript be letting everyone out there know about the bow shoot pretty soon. We are officially 100% going to be at. Let me just. I can't believe I didn't have this ready to go. I'm an idiot. I can't make fun of Frank anymore because now I'm messing up.
Speaker 2:All Things. Archery is hosting a bow shoot into the wild on july 12th and 13th in holiday mountain 99 oh wait, 99. Holiday mountain road, monticello, new york. Um, we are going to have a booth up there for a couple days. Oh are you?
Speaker 4:Hey, stop by we would definitely love to meet you and everything like that.
Speaker 2:There's a 3D shoot everything like that. You know, go check that out. We're going to be up there and hope to see you guys up there.
Speaker 4:That'll be good for me. I'm still working out my new bow. I got a new RX-7 last year and I'm a White guy. What's that?
Speaker 2:You said R7?.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, baby there we go, just when we need another White guy shit.
Speaker 4:That's the Matthews guy talking right. Yeah, yeah, unfortunately Shit. That's the Matthews guy talking right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, unfortunately, who knows? You know we might switch sooner or later. He's got to get approved by the White First.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I think that Thornton's going to be the new Bo for this year. Welcome to Team.
Speaker 2:Hoyt Frank.
Speaker 1:All right.
Speaker 3:We're going back into it.
Speaker 2:We're going to keep going and going and going. All right, yeah, we're going back into it. We're going to keep going and going and going.
Speaker 3:All right, chris, we got to get you back on the show. Definitely, buddy, it's been fun. Guys, yeah, absolutely Another great, amazing show. We hope everybody enjoyed this episode and we'll see you guys next time.
