SPEAKER_02: 0:00

Welcome back to Gangstay outdoors and podcasts present by coming.

SPEAKER_00: 0:12

Accidentally drifted like the charge hit like the back of the canoe.

SPEAKER_03: 0:31

Yeah, on the last trip over, I shot a great cake off of my bell charging.

SPEAKER_02: 0:36

And then the whooping. And then you hear all right, everyone. We are back. First of all, I want to say happy Thanksgiving to everyone out there who's listening. And we got our guy. He didn't get a chance to make it last week. And we're hoping everything was, you know, prayers to everything and hope everything worked out for you and the family. But a redemption story, like not even a redemption. I mean, I guess you could say it is a redemption story, but just pure just grinding it the whole entire year. The definition of your of you know of the background that that you're trying to create and everything like that. And it was so I think I can speak for all of us. Like it was incredible seeing you, you know, getting that message that, you know, you gotta buck down on the ground and everything like that. Um, you know, so we're really happy uh for you and everything like that. But Craig, you know, it's and I feel like we haven't seen you in a while, too. And I'll someone asked, I think, I think it was Connor asked like two two or three weeks ago. He goes, Where's Craig been? I was like, where has Craig been?

SPEAKER_01: 1:58

Life Life is just so crazy. But it's getting better now, getting a lot better.

SPEAKER_02: 2:05

Yeah, I mean, it's and you know what? I I really before we get into the you know to everything like that, um, you know, kind of like you're you're one of those guys that you know you you bet it on yourself, you know, and it's you're you're pass you you pass this deer, you pass this deer, you know, and I imagine you had people, you know, like well, well, why are you passing deer? Like what and I think I think we you know we did talk about it in our group chat and everything like that. Yeah, you know, and it's but it's your tag, and if that's what you want to do, and you're gonna bet on yourself that something bigger is going to step out. Yeah, um, you know, so kind of go over like that of just like you know, betting on yourself and and just sticking with the program and not letting everything else of social media, other people, even other hunters who you know, you're you're looking at the group chats and the the hunting tournament, you're seeing everybody is uh it's just smacking it down and everything like that, but to continue on the mission and it and it pays out.

SPEAKER_01: 3:09

Yeah, I just you know, I look back at how it all started, like you know, like this summer. Um, you know, like I had the stand in the urban spa this summer, and I noticed like my brother-in-law who owns that property, I know why he bought the property, you know, he's he's doing his business, you know, he's putting in townhomes, you know. That's that's just his that's his business. I totally get it. And when they put that retention pond in, and they literally cleared out everything to where I'm sitting in that hang on stand, and I look to the right, I can see freaking old lady Jules probably taking a shower in a third-story apartment buildings. Like, that's how clear it is now in that urban hunting land, like it's it's wide open. Um I hesitated, I freaked out. I'm like, I'm pulling the stand out. There, there ain't gonna be no deer in here. Like, I'm done, like, whatever. Well, then I got wind of the neighbor who I got built a really good connection with. And um, once they stopped digging all the ground and putting the foundations in where the houses are gonna be going up way up top, he goes, Craig, dude, those deer coming back. I'm like, I just you know, whatever. I'm like, screw it. I got enough cell cameras, I'm gonna go throw one in there just to see once what's going on. And let alone that evening, I went down there to throw the camera up. I looked to my left on Troy's property, and there was nine deer standing on there feeding in the CPR field, not even caring that I was there 70 yards from them, putting a hang-on stand in there. I looked to my right and right in the open, like literally right by the retention pond, people in the apartment parking lot doing God knows what, whatever. Little basket eight comes walking through them. I think myself like, huh, okay. Well, you know what? I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do it right now. So put the hang-on stand back in the same tree that I had it in this summer, and I just told myself, I'm I'm just gonna stay out of here, pin that wind, and believe it or not, don't be wrong, boys. Like, the wind is a factor. I I I really believe it is, but after this year, pulling myself out of Krakow on the family land because I was determined to kill one on this urban piece because I knew I was gonna do it. It just took it was just gonna take a lot of time, a lot of grind, and it's a lot of a lot of work, and you know, having those construction workers literally banging on freaking nails 190 yards away from me, running their trucks in, coming in, and then watching those deer that deer movement, and it's just like it didn't matter. Like, I had there was times where I'd be sitting with wrong wind, and those deer just didn't give a crap because it's like they're so used to those um, you know, the those guys up there, it's like I'm not affecting anything. Like, I'm not really you know, uh not, I don't know. It was just it was just weird, like what you know, whatever. But so then, so yeah, like how it all went down, I guess it's just you know, starting to get some good bucks on camera, and um ended up early uh mid-October. We got that absolute giant on camera, and we've only got one picture of him. He went MIA. Um, the neighbor Troy has never seen him since. Um, you know, a buck like that caliber in the urban area, knowing social media and knowing a lot of good friends that work for the Brown County Sheriff's Department, that literally is the stations literally right there. I would have known if that buck was killed. So that buck is somewhere out there yet. God knows where he is, hunkered down a little, probably. I mean, I don't know. Um but then um yeah, I started getting some good eight pointers on camera, and then I had that this one, this nine-pointer coming on camera um pretty really frequently, and I was I was literally, you guys, uh man. There it was, there was times, man, I go to my truck and I sit and just cry. I would, I would just shed tears. Like I always would tell myself, I'm pretty hard on myself. Like, you know, I I set myself goals, whether it's the outdoors or crossfit, you know, and I get I get pretty worked up, I'm not gonna lie. Like, I wear my heart on my sleeve, and it's just like I sat in my truck one night and I'm just thinking to myself, like, what in the F am I doing wrong? And then I'm thinking, like, I'm not doing anything wrong. Like, I just I'm literally either 10 minutes behind them or it's just it's just I wasn't connecting with them, you know. And and then that um that evening I was sitting in the ground blind. I literally just put it up the day before, and it's urban. I'm like, okay, these deer are gonna be a little sketched out. So I sat in the ground blind, the deer had no care that I was there. They came right into the, you know, they're just feeding about 15, 20 yards from me, whatever, and they might pop up and look up like a little bit at it, but not didn't get blown at once, this and that. And then, you know, legal shooting light, you know, and I'm I tell you what, man, that the whole thing with legal shooting light and social media, man, there's some people out there that are just really some sketchy ass people. I mean, there was a video I posted walking out of my stand, and don't get me wrong, like cell phones can do wonders to make daylight look really daylight, but it's actually pretty freaking dark out. I had some people on Instagram blowing me up, like, oh yeah, you hunt, you don't sit all the time, you don't sit too late. You know, I'm like, it's legal shooting light. Like, literally, I'm out on my stand 10 minutes. If I don't have any deer by me, I'm out. Like, I'm I'm out. I'm not illegally gonna go blow a deer up and then say I shot at two minutes of legal shooting light left. I I just won't I won't physically do that. And there was times in urban spot where it comes to legal legal shooting light two minutes after I'm in a wide open area, it's still bright out. Like I'm not in a like a thicket woods, whatever, and I have some good bucks come in. I'm not gonna do it. Like I just won't do it, you know. And anyways, you know, like that that night I got out of the ground line, and then um, you know, I had that be that buck came in three minutes after, and there he is. And then all of a sudden, it was the one that really pissed me off was I was sitting during my recation in my hang on stand, and it was about 8.54 in the morning, like, ah, you know, the neighbor choice and probably go up by his tower stand. He wanted to put his chair in there and whatever, which is fine, I respect it. Like, I'm probably gonna see no deer now, whatever. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna pack myself up, I'm gonna hit the crock on home with my brother-in-law, Matt. Literally, get down from my hang on stand, I get to my truck, turn my truck on, and my cell camera goes off, and there's a big nine. He was literally three minutes out from me just sitting on that stand where I probably would have shot him that day. So it's just like I was always just minutes either behind or um ahead of them, you know, whatever. I just like and I got I got upset. I got I you know, I started to get like really frustrated myself, and then I'm like, I'm gonna do this, and then here comes the weekend, and um that warm front comes through, and it's like, oh my god, like I'm sitting in that stand Connor, you know what I'm talking about. That last Saturday, dude. I'm like, I'm sitting Saturday, I'm like, how am I literally wearing a thin long sleeve and I'm sweating my ass off? Like, this is so warm out here, and then I'm I'm like, I'm not gonna get frustrated, it's still the rut. They're still gonna be pushing. And I I saw a deer. And so then Saturday morning, I get in my stand. I'm like, okay, it's it's really quiet. I knew the wind was supposed to pick up around like 9 a.m. And um I told the neighbor, told the neighbor Troy that, hey, bud, I'm gonna sit till nine o'clock because I respect like the property that we have. Like he wanted to shoot his gun to get ready for gun season. I respect that. I sit till nine o'clock. I'm gonna get out, go get some lunch, whatever, and I'll come back out this afternoon. Saturday morning, I'm sitting just on the literally in my hang on stand. Bo's hanging up. I'm on the phone with him, texting him, and just randomly happened to look up at eight seven, well, 8.20, look up literally right dab in front of me at 20 yards. There's the nine-pointer with his mouth wide open, walking across the funnel, and he walks right through my shooting lane. I'm in my stand, I have nothing prepared, nothing ready. I'm like, oh my god. So I'm like, okay, just hold on a second. So I put my phone in my vest pocket, I stand up, he gets into the thin part of the woods, a little like I call it like a little woods tree line. I can still see him. Now he starts to rap. I'm like, oh, Chris, this is my chance. So I grab my bowl and I turn all the way around. He's walking in. And where I have him marked on that pathway that I walk in, instead of always having to grab my rangefinder and rangefinder for less movement. I literally like a couple nights ago, I walked out and I just marked, like, you know, I just marked some mud up, whatever on the trail, 20, 25 yards. So then I kind of know. And that buck comes out at 25 yards. I had everything set and go, and I pulled back, and Matt stopped him, shot right over his back. Tell you what, you want to see a 37-year-old man cry in a tree and punching a tree so hard, I thought I'd snapped my wrist. Like I was so pissed. And Frank exactly knows what I'm talking about because I cuddled him.

SPEAKER_04: 12:05

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_01: 12:06

And I I'm sitting, I got down, I read, you know, I got myself together, you know, shed the tears, whatever, wiped them away. And then right away, I thought of everything that went wrong, and I tried to blame everything but myself. So, you know, and that's that's when I called, I called Frank in the truck, you know, and I I I think I actually I think I broke down a little bit too on the phone with you guys. You know, kind of tearing up a little bit. Like I, you know, I look at busting my ass all year long, getting the heat and getting the from social media, like, oh, I can't believe you're not shooting all these doors or you know, you don't. I just it was just it was it was just growing, growing, growing to where it's like, I'm gonna kill a bit, I'm gonna kill my personal best buck this year. I'm I'm gonna do it. And Saturday morning comes and I shoot over his back, and I'm like, what the F happened? So I called Frank, and oh I'm going over everything with them, you know, this and that. Like, are my broadhead shooting higher than you know, this and whatever? And then um Frank was telling me, he goes, no, he goes, dude, you shoot the broadheads just like you shoot your field points, and I put that little that little locking thing in my several broadhead, treated like a field point. Yep. Saturday got home after I got off the phone with Frank, went to the backyard asap. I shot the broadheads 25 yards with that locking bolt in them, and I'm shooting freaking 57 piece dying. I get 25 yards. I'm like, okay, what the hell happened to me? Well, I'm starting to figure it out. So then I actually went, I relived Saturday morning and actually put my field point on just in case I would hit the garage. But um I actually shot like I did on that buck, and what I did was when I shot, I I just I did everything I did. Well, I raised my arm because I wanted to see where that arrow's gonna go. Well, I should know where that arrow's gonna go. I'm a good shot, like that. I'm dead on. And when I raised that arm, my arrow went high, and that's exactly what I did Saturday morning. So then got back out Saturday afternoon. Um, seen like four or five doughs. I had two big does come in 10 yards from me. Again, yes, I could have smoked some doughs. I mean, I could have smoked you guys. I this urban spot, I could have smoked 10, 12 doughs this year if I wanted to. They're just they're everywhere in there, but I just told myself I'm not gonna do it. Like, I mean, you know, the pressure, you know, it maybe it was a little bit of, I shouldn't say pressure of the of the tournament, you know, like oh y'all get all these points. I knew I was gonna get points with a team. It's just like there might not, you know, be seven doughs or whatever. But um, so then Saturday night came and I had three three bucks come in. Two of them are pretty small. Then I had one buck way on the distance, and I just couldn't really tell what it was. It was getting kind of that dusk light. But I'm like, okay, well, then Saturday night came around. I got back home, and at 10:30 Saturday night, the buck I missed hits my camera. And I thought to myself, I literally sat down, I'm like, you, there's no way this is not, this is not happening. Like he's back, and he came in at 10:30 Saturday night, 1 a.m. Sunday morning, and 2.19 Sunday morning, and 4 a.m. Sunday morning. He came in and hit my scrape. I'm like, I got up Sunday morning early. I'm like, I'm gonna kill this deer. I'm gonna get my that's why I said redemption. I'm gonna get my I don't care if the story is that isn't a summer story all the way, it's a two-day story. Guess what? That's I'm gonna do it. Sunday morning comes, that temperature drops, and I'm like, okay, these deer are definitely gonna be moving. You know, from Saturday being 60 some degrees to Sunday morning being thinking it was like 29 in De Pier. I'm like, I'm gonna do it. And this is crazy because Saturday morning I missed them at 8:30. Sunday morning comes around, 7.17 in the morning. My wife texts me, she goes, she goes, Oh my god, it is cold all day. You're gonna get one this morning. I'm like, I text her back, I go, I sure hope so, because right now I ain't see anything but a freaking fawn. So I'm sitting there, you know, and all of a sudden, like I stood up, 8:17 comes around. I'm literally standing up in my stand, and also I'm looking around, you know, just looking peeking around. I look over to my right, and I look over and oh, there's a deer coming. I'm like, no, I turn around and I I I literally just whisper, I'm like, this is not happening right now. That nine pointer I missed Saturday morning starts to come back towards me. Now he's coming back in now to the wide open spot where I literally if I don't have anything in my hand and ready to go, I cannot move because he's gonna he's gonna pin me. He walks all the way in, crosses where I missed him Saturday morning. He's walking right down, puts his head down. He comes two yards under my stand. And I still am like he's literally right underneath me. And all of a sudden, he goes about five yards out. He's looking now straight towards Troy's tower stand. I'm like, I don't even have my bow in hand yet, you guys. Because I I just I'm just I'm starting to freak out a little bit, you know. I'm like, okay, well, he's looking now straight out to the tower stand. I'm literally 18 feet up behind him. He's not gonna see me, so I slowly grab my bowl. I'm like, you know what? I'm doing this all natural. I'm not gonna at him. I'm just gonna let him do what he wants to do. If he's gonna keep walking straight with no shot, it wasn't meant to be. What's this deer do? I I pull back, he looked, he turns to the right, looks at my mock scrape, and what's he do? He walks right to that mock scrape at seven yards. I didn't even stop him, he stopped on his own. I just put it right on his heart and just pulled back. As soon as I seen that arrow hit, and that sever freaking opened that deer up, he meal kicks, his head snaps to the ground, and he literally ran off 80 yards. And I watched him do his little death dance, and he literally tipped over right there from my stand. And I looked at the time, I'm like, this is not real life. Like, I miss him 8 30 Saturday morning to kill him at 8 27 Sunday morning. Like, I I just didn't believe it was real, and that's like I watched him die, and it's just like I couldn't believe it. So I freaking FaceTime my wife and daughter, and I just all out full low, crying my ass off. My eyes are bloodshot, and I'm like just hyperventilating and freaking out, and all of a sudden then that's I finished talking to them. I FaceTime my cousin Sam. He was up in his stand up in um up in Beaver, Wisconsin, whatever, hunting and stuff. And I just to even to this day talking about it, I just it still doesn't I can feel real because it's like all the stuff that's happened, I you know, like you know, getting the backlash, you know, of all that deer's too small, or this deer, you know, oh you gotta let him go, let him grow. And it's just like, oh my god, that that it's that social media stuff started to give me a headache. Like listening to these guys always say that, it's like whatever, you know, and that buck comes in and he's my biggest buck today. Like, I mean, he's is he gonna score 120 inches? Probably not, but I I could give two shits less, you know. Like this buck, I was gonna, I was determined to go kill him and kill him only because of what happened Saturday morning, and I did it, so it's like you know, it's I took him in to get um cleaned up by my guy that here in Seymour, and he actually weighed it for me. And feel dressed out, the deer is 186 pounds. That's nice deer, man. Yeah, so I have them all caped up, took him to um a buddy of mine, Brian Schultz in Seymour, and he's gonna mount them up for me. And yeah, I'm just yeah, I just tell you what, all that hard work, and it's just like I'm not done grinding yet. Like, I'm I'm gonna late season bowl over some bunch, a bunch of does. Um, you know, getting it. Do you still have another buck tag? Uh yeah, I hate Wisconsin. Um, yeah, so how that works is Connor knows it too. How it works because I shot my buck with my bowl. In order for me to shoot another buck with my with my bowl, I can go buy a gun tag and use my bow. But um, I I just didn't have no time this weekend. I had so much stuff going on in Wisconsin. You get a seven-day gun season. Like, it's like, I don't know. I I want to because after what I see him come on camera, another giant nine-pointer is on camera now. It's just like uh I I want to, but then at the same time, it's just like I know what he's gonna be next year, and I know my neighbor Troy does not shoot anything small, so him and I are on the same page. Like, we're if he doesn't see him, he probably ain't gonna kill a deer out there. He wants them to let him keep growing and growing. And I don't know. I I can go probably go buy a take, you know, if I wanted to, but then now I'm looking at now tomorrow's Tuesday. I got literally five days to go try to get another buck. And it's like I I don't know, I got so much stuff, family stuff going on for Thanksgiving and stuff like that. I might just I might just be bust and be happy with what I got this year and just go probably go maybe smack a dough or two for late season.

SPEAKER_03: 20:48

I tell you what, Craig, this weekend though, and I I totally hear what you're saying with the the snow apparently that's coming. We all know how that is in the Midwest, and they predict snow and they're full of shit most of the time. But uh, you know, I just say it may be worth that 24 bucks because uh, I mean, I typically always bring during the the Wisconsin gun week, I always bring my bowl with me. Yeah, you know, the chances of something coming in close enough once you know the orange army starts uh blasting everywhere. I mean, we know how skittish they are no matter where you are in the country, but I do it just in case. I also have my pistol. If uh you know a coyote comes up close to the stand just to have some fun, but this weekend though with the temps dropping, dude. Yeah, I don't know I mean they're they're they're gonna be moving. So if you got the itch, it may be worth the 24 bucks just to give it a try.

SPEAKER_01: 21:47

And if it doesn't, hey, you know, I mean, so be uh, like you said, I mean, so be it then. But like, yeah, I know those temps are supposed to be plummeting like absolutely crazy this weekend here in Wisconsin. Yeah, and I got my ground blind, I mean, I got my buddy heater. I mean, I got everybody that ground blind very, very warm. Um, yeah, we'll we'll we'll see. And like I said, I know like as of after we're doing the podcast right now, my camera right now, my cell camera now in De Pierre is just blowing up right now, so it's like I can only imagine what's on camera now. But like it's just yeah, it does give me the itch, it really does, and it just and now it's like I I I worried so much about you know, like those town homes going in by where my brother-in-law is building them. That has absolutely no effect on those deer at all down there. It's just insane.

SPEAKER_03: 22:33

Yeah, the urban deer they adapt. I mean, they adapt. You guys have seen my posts before in in uh my neighborhood. I mean, oh yeah, we have huge timber all the way around my neighborhood, and the Yahara River runs all the way through. It's just the most unbelievable habitat for big white tail. Yeah, but we had we still have a ton of building going on uh with homes and whatever, and yeah, they just adapt. They may get moved, but uh it's crazy how they uh figure it out and they figure it out quick. Yeah, yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_02: 23:07

Yeah, yeah, and that's the thing, white tails are very adaptable. Um yeah, you know, it that's one thing that has made them I mean, just especially thrive in the last, I mean, I don't know how many years. I mean, obviously, we know their numbers got real low at one point, but that's when you know, no real hunting regulations or anything like that, and you can just slaughter them and everything like that. But you know, you you see they're just only losing more and more land every single day, you know. Uh yeah, and you know, I I've seen giant deer, I've seen tons of deer like driving on 78 here in Jersey or like these little tiny like strips or small little pockets, and there's always deer in there. It's like, how the hell does a deer like live there? Like it doesn't, it doesn't make sense, but they they find a way, you know, they're yeah, they're in their backyards, they're you know, you see them in in cities and and stuff like that, and like that small little, yet again, another small little pocket, and it they're they thrive, they can really thrive almost anywhere.

SPEAKER_01: 24:14

Yeah, um, that's just it too. Like you were saying, like you like, you know, that de pier, you know, if I had an aerial view of like where I hunt, like there is no and especially now that the retention pond went in and that ditch, that ditch funnel that they put in, that was all like tall cactus, so it got me some good cover and it's all gone. Like I the only pieces of woods that we have is it runs along Beaver Creek, and then everything else is just like tall CPR fields. I mean, when I go sit there, there was no buildings out there at all. And if I was out in the middle of nowhere with this property, it'd make me feel like I'm actually out in Kansas hunting. That I am there is no woods in this, all this is just strips of woods following a river. And I've seen the biggest some of the biggest deer I've ever hunted in this little strips here, and I'm not gonna stop hunting it. Like, I like I will be shed hunting my ass off down there this year, and I it's got some big plans for next year. I know I do, and it's gonna be even better.

SPEAKER_02: 25:46

I'd love to hear. I mean, and and that's always it's crazy. Like, I'll be looking at your post, and it's like your plans are already for like 2026. I'm like, damn, I haven't even really started thinking about 2026. Yeah, but it's it's for us, it's different here than me neither. I mean, like for the Wisconsin guys, those Midwest guys, like the as much as we bitch and complain, and listen, I I I would love to go to two bucks state any weapon, or even a three bucks state any weapon. Um, but like we're we're spoiled because like we're that spoiled child that you know we we get what we get, we get unlimited does, we get seven, I think seven bucks right now. We hunt from the second week of September to all the way to the I can fire from my job if I had that many tags. Yeah, do you understand? Do you understand why now I hunt so freaking much? Yeah, you like my schedule is all built around this time of the like literally this time of the year. Um, yeah, you know, like it, you know, for for so for Frank, uh, and I because he has he he has a muzzle, so I don't have a muzzle error, so I could still bow hunt all throughout this time, obviously, for for does. I don't get a next shot at a buck until our six-day firearm, which it's two bucks for six days any weapon. Um that's the next chance I get a chance if I want to take a buck with my bow. But Frank opens up uh muzzlader, I think, right next Monday.

SPEAKER_05: 27:17

Yeah, yeah, December 1st.

SPEAKER_02: 27:19

You get two days and then it closes again. So it's a it's our muzzle is weird. It opens, closes, or whatever. So but basically we have if you've killed a buck so far, each you you killed your your early season, your fall bow, you killed your permit season, next you have your your muzzle loader, then six day firearm, which is two. Then there's I don't know exactly how it works, but I think there's a shotgun, there's a shotgun and permit shotgun, permit shotgun, and then to cap it off permit bow, which I think leads us to seven.

SPEAKER_03: 27:58

That's just shows you guys you all have a uh deer population problem.

SPEAKER_02: 28:03

So yeah, yeah, I want I want to say more of a money problem. Yeah, well, that's true too. Yes and no, yeah, like yes, we do have a huge high number of of does, and I'm not gonna say our deer, right? And I'm not gonna sit here and say we don't, but also I think a lot of people will say this on heavily pressured WMAs public land, your dough number, your deer number is not what it used to be. Now, a lot of that graphic is from they get their information also too from uh accidents and and everything like that. So you you look at where a lot of those accidents happen, it's on places where you cannot hunt, right? So, of course, yeah, of course, there's so many deer, and there are uh tons of deer that are on you you'll see the big farmlands and stuff like that, and you'll see 30, and I I get to see that. I see a lot of deer, don't get me wrong, but it's still a thing where it's like I'll keep unlimited doughs, whatever. I'm not gonna I don't know how you can shoot unlimited doughs. I I can't even shoot freaking five in a in a season, right? Uh it's let's be honest, I don't need that much. I can probably fit like one or two, I can probably fit one more, two more deer in my main freezer, and then I still have my backup freezer, right? I but uh that's for me for the most part. I'm the one in my family eating 95% of the deer, so I don't need to shoot five doughs a season with an added uh two to three three bucks, you know. Right, right. That's just crazy. Um, I I would love, and it's never gonna happen. We talk about all the time with the insurance companies and everything like that. It's uh it's just not gonna be a thing. They have a huge pull on on what we do here in in New Jersey, um, and our and our um uh you know what what we can go after and everything like that. They want the deer gone. That's why we can bait, that's why we can do this. Like there's things that don't make sense, you know. You look at our and I'll say it again, you look at our bear season. It's like, well, yeah, you can you can bait bear, but you cannot sit right over the bait. But you could hunt deer and sit right over over the bait. And it's like what that was that makes no damn sense. Or or six day, like so our six day firearm, you our second bear season starts up. But we can't bow hunt them. And it's like, what's I can go out for six days and kill two bucks with my bow, but I cannot go out for six days and kill a bear with my bow. Yet again. Makes no sense. We're those we're the spoiled children, um, without a doubt. That that want the laws and everything changed. So it, you know, it's it's funny, and I love having you guys on, and I'm so happy that you, you know, you guys are part of the team because we get to see the other perspective of you know, Wisconsin and some of these other states that they're they're you know one and done, or or just two and everything like that, and and that's really it. While us here, we we have our pickings and we could just keep shooting deer until I'm running out of arrows this year. Like that's how that's how many shots I've I've taken at deer, I've killed three so far, shot at a coyote, shot uh uh at a a buck and hit it low. So like shot one, you know, use some arrows with the with my Matthews and everything like that. And it's like I I literally look at my quiver, I'm like, I was able to just re-up that I have now four, I have four more, and that's it. Because I didn't re-up on arrows this year for for my normal 12 to start the season. I'm now really, really regretting not not doing that. Um, you know, because uh it's uh it's have it's it's fun. It is fun shooting deer.

SPEAKER_03: 32:08

Yeah, yeah, there is a report today um that I saw on social media that the state of Wisconsin's reporting uh that the population is uh over three million, yeah, and the actual number of hunters is actually decreasing. You know, that's unfortunate. Um, you know, it it depends on what's start of part of the state. I mean, Craig knows. I mean, there's the areas the further you go north, the less agriculture. Um, they they just don't have the the the size of the deer. Um I mean, I think there's a ton of deer in the state of Wisconsin, but in my opinion, I've got a couple of good friends who have worked for the DNR for a long time. And I don't know if it's in every state, but I think in Wisconsin, I think they really overinflate what the population actually is because you know you got the wolves in northern Wisconsin, you've got the coyotes that are wreaking havoc. Um, and I'll tell you what, this opening weekend of gun. I had buddies, um, good friends that have uh family land in Neilsville. So Craig would know it's like northwest Wisconsin, Toma, uh northwest too, another big buck, big population. Opening weekend was crazy slow. Like, I don't I don't have a single person that I know um that was out this opening weekend uh that shot a big buck with rifle, which is crazy surprising.

SPEAKER_01: 33:49

Yeah, and I agree with that because you know obviously I was waiting for that, you know, Saturday morning, and you know, seeing everyone on Instagram or Facebook or whatever to start posting, and I saw very little at all. Like I literally kept refreshing my app to make sure maybe it was just my app, but nobody was killing anything. I mean, my buddy Tyler Herman he shot a really good buck um Sunday, but um he goes, he goes, I shot one, but he goes, I barely seen anything. He goes, I seen him and another dough, and that was it. I'm like, it's insane because like archery season coming around, like when archery season was here, it's just I mean, it still is, but I was seeing posts every day of just people just you know, and I was thinking gun season comes, and it's just almost like it just shuts right off. It's just it's it's it's weird. Like I just I can't explain it.

SPEAKER_02: 34:41

Yeah, I mean it it's it makes it it's it's weird, but it also makes sense at the same time. I'm not gonna lie. Well, right, yeah. You you look at what we're doing and I mean that this is why I think like eventually a lot of states like and I'm not I know people like it being easy and everything like that, but uh why archery is just so important and why so many people do switch to archery, because your your opportunity is just so much higher, you know, and by the time the uh you look at it right now, like gun season just started for you guys, gun season's about to you know start for us. Well, we've gone three months already of the season with with right, you know, yeah of hunting pressure, you know, and yet again, you know, maybe there isn't as many archers as there, what whatever the case is, but it's there's that's still a factor on the deer herd. You know, it's still a factor on pressure that's still gonna move deer around. Um the food, you know, there's not as much food now. You know, you look at the main part of our archery season. I mean, you just let's just talk about October. You have oaks dropping, you still have you may have some late beans, maybe somebody put up some late beans, you have corn stalk still up, or you know, just getting freshly cut, you know, the CRP, you the they're the amount of food that they have is just abundant. So, also if if you're in an area for a gun hunting where maybe you don't have as much food, and once it's gone, the deer are gone. And I I will tell you firsthand, like I'm seeing a couple pieces just here. You look at early season, and there's just deer all over the place. And what happens once the beans dry up, once maybe the all the corners cut, whatever the case, and then you add the pressure of deer hunting. Deer are good, they're just gonna move, they're gonna go to where they need to go, and that's gonna go find food. That may not be on on your piece, that may be on somebody else's piece, you know. Yeah, it's always changing, but for gun season, yeah, like, and I'm not gonna lie, I'm I'm actually pretty thankful that you know we get to be bow hunters and everything like that, and we get the opportunities that we get. And you know what? I don't want to to be grinding the whole year and the deer that I'm going after, someone one day just goes out there with a gun and just and just kills them without you know, without putting the you know, that that definitely sucks. I'll take I'll take a bow hunter killing one of my target bucks over a hard or something.

SPEAKER_03: 37:21

And and the latter of what you said, Mike, that happens all too often. Yes, it does people who have never and again, a lot of it, like I'll tell you the stuff I love seeing, but us as bow hunters and just hunting for a long time, you're like, what in God's name is happening here? But when you see, like, you know, whether it be youth hunt or whatever in Wisconsin, and you see like 14, 15 year olds shooting the buck of a lifetime to where you know you tease them and you're like, Well, I don't know that you really need to hunt anymore because you're probably never gonna top that. Yeah, but it just it happens so often. And it does, I'm gonna take my daughter out this week. Um, we we plan to sit on Wednesday, but um, I think there's a chance of snow Wednesday once it gets cold, but they're saying wind gusts up to 50 miles an hour, and I just told her this evening, and again, she's still recovering from a concussion, but I told her, I said, Finn, dad's not going to sit in a blind 50 mile an hour wind gust. I'm just hoping the damn thing doesn't blow away.

SPEAKER_01: 38:26

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02: 38:27

So yeah, no, and that's a thing. Like, I think Frank has probably definitely heard me to talk about this on other podcasts, and like when I talk to like new hunters, like my favorite thing about like I don't want to be like when I first started, I didn't want to be the most successful person. Like, I didn't want to kill the 150 engineer when I have kids or when I take new people out, like, yes, it would be great. Don't get me wrong, like it would, it would be great if that happened. But where do you go? You don't go anywhere. Yeah, like I'm you don't when you start sports or school or do all these things, you don't start at the top, right? You know what I mean? You have to go through the suck, and I think for hunting, what makes hunting, especially bow deer hunting, bow hunting, deer, or whatever animal, there's a lot more suck than there's a lot more, you know. Oh my god, like I just killed the biggest deer of my life going out on the first sit. And I and I love Brandon Bartlow, don't get me wrong, and I love his theory, and that works for especially for the east coast down south, and for the guys that don't have the time, you know what I mean? If you need to capitalize on on your days of hunting, I I love that method, but for me, I'm not ready for that method yet. I still like going through the suck and grind and like sitting 50 times and during bow season, you know. Uh now and and like uh Craig said, like he missed that deer and he was pissed and he punched, and like and you you cry. I want those emotions. Oh, yeah. Like, because you put in all that time. If I go out or my first deer, my first year, first few sits, and I kill a freaking Jersey 150 or 160. I'm gonna think it's that easy every single time. And but that's not the case. Hunting is so damn hard. Bow hunting is even harder. You know, someone at work, one of the kids, I go, Oh, well, you know, kill like killing is like a big thing for hunting. I go, no, honestly, killing is not that big of a thing. If you look at hunters and how much they sit and how many animals you see, what maybe one percent you're killing or shooting at maybe one percent of the animals that you actually see. It's one percent of of what we actually do. Everything no one gets to see everything else, but it's a grind, it starts from the day the season ends to the very next start of of next the next season, and then can continues, and then after you shoot, I always tell after you shoot the real the real work starts after you shoot. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 41:12

You know what I mean? Yep.

SPEAKER_03: 41:15

So um yeah, and I and I think that I think that's a lot of what you know with social media, like where it's gotten to today. Um, you know, we've all watched, we all are fans of certain shows. Like I used to work with a guy who um he's on his own now, but he actually was with Midwest Whitetail um since the inception. What's that? Jared Mills. Oh, really?

SPEAKER_02: 41:40

Yeah, he used to I'm gonna tell you, I love love him, and I have not been able to watch that show like I used to. So when he was obviously the man behind it, and do and nothing wrong with um nothing um wrong with uh what the hell's the other guy's name, but oh Bill Winky or and I I do love Bill too, like it's great, but Jared is it's like that fresher, new and same thing. I love Bill, watched it religiously, but like I just think it gave the show a new like having Jared and seeing it, and I think he's a I think he's a nurse too. So like he he works and he does everything, and just seeing that kind of is like wow, like yeah, that's pretty cool, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03: 42:27

He puts out some phenomenal content, and then we just kind of got to I've actually never met the guy in person, but we work for the same company and connected that way and talked. And I honestly, like, I used him basically like kind of like a sponge just to soak up his knowledge because the guy is an absolute phenomenal hunter, and um, so you know, my point was is that in terms of like you know, we see these shows, we see the jewelries and all that. I mean, yeah, they're managing thousands and thousands of acres, and you know, they've invested a lot, you know, they've bought these, you know, so it's like a lot of like people getting into the sport now, they see that. And to your point, Mike, like they expect that that is what bow hunting, whatever is that that's not the norm. No, and you know, for example, like I I could not agree with you guys more in that as you said, the suck, I mean, it stinks going and putting, you know, 50, 80 hours on stand bow hunting a season, but like you you learn something from every sit. And uh, you know, like like for example, this past weekend, you know, on my buddy's farm, I shot a big buck there a few years ago uh during gun season. But this weekend, it was the camaraderie, it was all the like the laughing and the stories and busting each other's chops. Like that to me, yeah, we all want to shoot the buck of a lifetime, but it again, it goes back to like in in the way I believe, and the way I was taught, every deer, it doesn't matter how big it is, but they're all a trophy because the most exciting part about it is hearing the stories of how it happened. And as Craig explained tonight, like people who don't put the time in, and you know, and I urge people to just pick up a bow, if somebody ever offers, like once you pick up that that stick and string, like it's hard to put it down. And I I just love hearing the stories of people's success. You hear people's, I don't want to say failures because it's just it happens, it's hunting, you know. Yeah, um, and so and the way I look at it is every hunt is a gift to be able to just be out there, like my sit tonight. Man, it was cloudy, little, you know, upper 40s, but it still was cool. And you know, I was taking videos of fighter jets coming in. Yeah, again, yeah, the the sit itself was awesome. You know, I texted my buddy before I got down, who owns the farm, and I was like, it was all quiet, but I just I was like, any second, you know, it just felt like you know, and the only thing now later season, if if there's those mature bucks who are still looking for those last doughs that may be coming into estrus later, depending on when they were, you know, when they were born or whatever. So I I hit the the can a couple of times and you know what I struck out, but you know what? Like I can't wait to get on stand or or be out there with my daughter this week. So all right, you know, it's just it's it's kind of I don't know, like social media is awesome, but it's also like you've got a kind of level set to see the stuff that that we see all the time of these massive companies and shooting absolute studs. But yeah, you also have we also have learned that these people, their farms and every other property that's around them, there's an agreement in terms of like practicing QDM, and most of us don't have that opportunity or that ability. So I don't know, it it's kind of like uh it's hard. It's you know, you see both sides of it, but there's just nothing like archery and whatever, and you know, the the bucks that I've shot, the buck that I shot this year with my bow, like it's an absolute blessing. And it's a memory that like I was able to share with you all, and and something I'll never forget. So, like at the end of the day, to me, that's what's most important. It's creating the memories and uh being blessed so we have the ability that our that our families you know are cool with us going and being away and spending time doing what we do doing what we love to do. And that's the thing that unfortunately sometimes when we see the negativity and whatnot on social media, I think gets forgotten.

SPEAKER_01: 47:05

So a hundred percent. I mean, it's just it's it's ridiculous because like you know, you look at you know, like look at these big name people on social media, you know, it's like I'll put back at they all started at zero as well. They all started at zero as well. And at starting maybe 10-15 years before everyone else, probably got them in a little, you know, a little bit more of in the game, whatever. But like the stuff that I see on social media too, like you know, there's just like comments, you know, and I'm I'm gonna say this, I'm gonna say it like some of the comments I see towards like these female hunters is actually makes me just absolutely disgusted. Um, for instance, like Daniel Halverson, she is actually from Wisconsin. And my dad works for Pelo Windows, and my dad actually knows her father pretty darn good. And you know, everyone blasts her on social media. Oh, you guys, you know, because you're you're Indian or blah blah, you get all the money, you know, sent to you, blah blah. Her dad has told my dad I I haven't gave her a damn penny. She did this from the ground up, she opened up her own business, she's you know, did her own thing. I mean, that tell you what, there's a lot of lot of people out there that just rip on her, blah, blah, blah. But that girl is actually a fucking warrior. Like, she's done everything herself. I mean, for Christ's sake, she sleeps in her truck 90% of the year, traveling out, you know, to these all these other, you know, states or whatever, but like, I don't know. It's just like it's it's hard. It's like seeing people bash other people on, you know, it's just it makes me just disgusted. It's just like, I don't know. Like, I mean, I just I don't even know how to say it anymore. Because it's like like to me, it just feels like it gets worse and worse every day. It's just like yeah, but like I know there's that one comment I've seen on I dude, I I actually had to take a screenshot of it because I just I laughed at it so freaking hard. It was um you guys obviously on the what's her name? Um Leah, Leah Anderson. Dude, it was a comment that some guy made, and her dad went on um the the comments and just laid into the dude and I'm like, holy shit, like this is ridiculous. Like, I mean, some of the shit that gets sent to Leah, I just I just freaking laugh my ass off.

SPEAKER_02: 49:31

Like, she's and she kills, she she kills she is this is my problem with her. I have no really and I don't know it's because Bianca and my mom, like I grew up in the makeup industry and everything like that. Also, living here in Jersey and New York and fashion and makeup is definitely much different than it is in a lot of other places.

SPEAKER_04: 49:59

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 50:00

My only thing is, and I understand why maybe someone will yeah, yeah, it too much makeup. I'm not a makeup person. I even tell Bianca, I'm like, when you that's not that's not my like I I just that's my only thing about her. Besides that, girl's a killer, girl's a girl. She's still bigger there than me, she's killed bigger bears than me. I mean, she grinds, she she does you can't take that away from her, and she is a she's a girly girl, she might she's a hunter 100, 100, and it's okay for her to be a girly girl and also a a hunter and outdoorsman. And honestly, she's probably a much better hunter than most most guys out there, right? Guaranteed, don't like to admit that, they don't want to admit that. I have always said, even Bianca, once Bianca really falls, hopefully falls in love. The girl can shoot better than I can. You know, once she practices more and does, you know, she will probably a hundred percent be a better hunter than me. And I know tons of females out there that are better hunters than me and most men, they are also more patient than we are. Us men are not patient, we're not at all peaches, right? We're we're not, yeah. And and that's what and that's what I'll say. Like when with Bianca, I think what when we did the last bo shoe and Frank can can contest at the Iron Bear, I think she made it, she did better than most of the guys. And I and I was actually surprised, like I knew she was a good shot, but like once we got to her range of like now we're out of her comfort zone, she still I think held her own for like I think the next like two rounds and everything like that. So and it's like me, I I'm a good shot now, but it took so much practice versus her, she was kind of like that from once I kind of taught her, like from the very beginning, that she she was great and spot on. You know, her her thing is, and uh it's definitely she needs the focus. She, you know, if her hands get a little too sweaty, that that bothers her, you know. If uh during the summer, like if a the bugs are obviously flying around that, and I and I tell her, I go, that's something that we need to work on because when you're hunting, especially early season, there's going to be things that are everything is gonna bother you, right? You'll have mosquitoes biting you, and you literally can't move, like that's just but that's something that she knows she needs to work on. But outside of that, the girl is a phenomenal shot, and you know, it took me a long time to be where I am, you know. And and Frank can tell you, and even like I've had bad years, I've had like I've had bad years, I've had two thankful great years, you know. Three years ago, Frank could tell you, like, I I freaking I didn't kill a single deer. Yep, I shouldered a deer, and then I kind of did with what uh Craig did. And by the time I actually got on does, it was in the rut. And I was like, you know what? I've gone this long, I'm gonna hold out and I'm gonna I'm gonna kill a big buck. And I played a back and forth chess game with a buck, and he ended up winning and everything like that. And I I took the tag soup where I was like, all right, you know, right uh it is what it is, this is my decision, and I'm not gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna kill some. I'm gonna kill a big buck, or I'm not gonna kill anything at all. And and that's where that's how I how it went too.

SPEAKER_03: 53:28

But that and that, but that like to your point, Mike, like that's the important thing to what you said, like the buck won, but that's like I'm sure you and every you know, most hunters out there, you took something from that that your next hunt, you're better than you were before. You know, and that and that's where I think in I will also say in defense of the big shows, like you know, Jared, who used to work for my company, and you know, the Lakoskies and all that, yes, they're blessed to have what they have, but at the same time, don't kid yourself, these people have they bust their tails out there, yeah. You know, they're they're on stand hours and hours and hours just like we are. Um, so it's like that's another thing where they I think sometimes those shows they get a negative light because they're like, oh, you know, they just no, they don't like they're they're grinding and putting in the time just like we do.

SPEAKER_02: 54:26

Yeah, they may have a better better, you know, deer population, bigger bucks that they're able to hold, better cameras, better equipment, they have the time to you know, they actually get paid to hunt and everything like that. Right, yeah, way different. Yeah, so yeah, and I will and you know, I don't want to go too much longer into this, you know, and we'll we'll move on and and get our goodbyes and everything like that, but I think that's what has generated so well with the hunting public. I think that's what has now generated so well with like uh the latitude guys, they came out with a new show uh the last couple years that has sparked fire and has become my favorite show uh to watch. Uh, you know, you really see the grind, you really see see everything behind it, and even editing myself, you know. I know Frank knows all this firsthand because Frank has now been there with me for the last couple years, and I, you know, I film so much and I go through SD cards on SD cards and look at my doe video. I think that was maybe a six-minute video, and I really didn't have that much in there because you you don't need it all, you know. Right. Imagine how much these guys are filming on the day-to-day when they also have people there to to film with them and they have the equipment to set up all different cameras, they have probably hundreds of hours of film and just sitting for hundreds of hours waiting for that big buck. But they have, like Connor said, they have the means, they have the population, and then they have the size where to us a 125, that's a big deer in Jersey. Yeah, that's that's a deer, especially on public. You're not passing that freaking deer. Correct, right? No, that is definitely like a you you don't even think about shooting that deer for another pro maybe two years. Two years is pushing, maybe even three, maybe three years, right? Where you're talking about six, seven, and eight-year-olds being shot versus you know your your typical two and a half, maybe three, three-year-old, you know what I mean? And I think there was a poll a couple years ago that came out that I think like only like a very small, and I don't want to butcher it, I'll have to look it up uh another day. I think like five or ten percent of hunters have tagged 125, 120 or 125 inch whitetail and and above. Only like such a small number, and that puts into perspective, and that's a lot of those guys. You know, I would pass a 120 if I was able, if I was able to. Of course I would, you know what I mean? And you know what something that that Craig said too earlier when you have those agreements and stuff like that, it it's a lot easier to pass a deer like that. I've learned the hard way. When you go to pass a deer that is a good deer, but you want to see him what he's gonna be, the odds of him getting shot on public are extremely high, and he ain't gonna survive, so you might as well take that shot.

SPEAKER_05: 57:35

Yeah, yeah, especially here with like during the sixth day. You know, you might pass, you know, everybody might pass him during bow season, but come sixth day, I think a lot of people here they go in the mindset. Well, I get another tag. So if a decent buck walks by, I've even seen people shoot, you know, a four-pointer can say, Hey, I could shoot two bucks in one week, so why not shoot the four-pointer? At least I got one, I got meat in the freezer, now I can hold out for the big one or something, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 58:08

So it's just and for us six days is called buck week. Buck week, yeah. It's buck week, and not only that, you get most, I would say, majority of your hunters, these are the meat guys, these are the guys that probably have not sat once all year and are just looking forward to literally getting 20-25 guys and marching every piece of property and driving, and that's the one like I've done it a few times. It is a different pace, it is fun, but being a bow hunter, like I wouldn't mind to see it get rid of in the state of New Jersey. I know it ain't gonna happen. I know there's always a debate where a lot of people have those debates. Um but like uh it's it's it it it's it's a fun thing to do every once in a while, but man, it is and anything that moves the littlest thing boom, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 59:08

I'll tell you what, I've been uh back in 10 years ago, I was a part of a a few uh deer drives, and I'll just say that was the last time I ever did that. Um, it can be fun, like you said, but there's also a lot of people that were was in the group that I was in that had no business holding a firearm. And I was like, this is yeah, and like you guys said, we're bow hunters, and so it's still fun to do something different, and you know, but yeah, when I saw that whole scene, I was like, nope, I'm good.

SPEAKER_02: 59:47

Yeah, that that's that's the other thing. Uh I mean, and it it it's that's what I love about bow hunting too. Like, if there's other hunters out there, like and you're walking in, you don't have to worry like about getting shot like that. I mean, you gotta be an idiot, and we all know there's idiots out there, so and it it has happened, but like you really gotta be so stupid to shoot another guy while bow hunting, like yeah, you really do. You gotta be so trigger happy that whatever. And we know we've heard the stories that has happened and everything like that, but outside of that, like walking in during gun season, it's like I want my orange hat, orange vest, throwing an orange flag around like. Like it is it's a whole other anxiety that you like. I I don't like it. I really don't. And I don't mind not spending as much time in the woods during this time of the year just because of that. Like we're going up to PA for rifle season. And you know, the cool thing about PA is it's spread out. Like it's such a big piece of big pieces of land. Here in Jersey, it's like man, you're definitely walking up on people if you're not on five and everything like that. Like here, you got people walking around who should not have weapons, um who just don't care. And like I said, any little movement they're shooting at. And that's the scare. That's that's the scary part. Yeah, yeah. Um, but I mean, guys, we we hit that hour mark. Craig, it it's we we love when you come on, especially, you know, to hear your your your story and everything like that. You know, it's it's been a little bit um it's the holidays, so guys, um happy Thanksgiving, happy Thanksgiving to to all the listeners out there and everything like that. For all those yet again who are participating in in the gun season, um, you know, just uh be safe. Hope you hope you guys knock it down. And you know, something really important. Don't worry about what other people say on on social media. You shoot what makes you happy. Um we did talk about this last week where you know the outdoors in color and stuff like that, where they get a lot of shit for being black and everything like that. And you know, uh Craig has faced some stuff where people are uh ridiculous, and same with with a lot of the women out there and stuff like that. Um, you know, do what makes you happy, you know, stay safe, stay within the you know, the law and everything like that, and shoot as long as it's legal and you shoot it, like that that should be good enough. And if you're happy, we're happy. Um, you know, so everyone, I I hope you guys enjoy this episode. I hope you guys enjoy all the Thanksgiving food. I am so pumped that it is here. I do love me some some Thanksgiving. Got a week of leftovers of nothing but turkey and everything like that. So we're all gonna be nice and fatter than than what we were before, except for Craig. Uh Craig will still have that that he's got going on and everything like that. He'll probably in between meals, he'll probably go outside and do some burpees and yeah, boys. I I will see you guys uh next week, and uh hope everyone had a a good time listening. We'll we'll see you guys next time.

SPEAKER_03: 1:03:08

Happy Thanksgiving, fellas.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:09

Happy Thanksgiving, all right.