Cold Open And Show Mission

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Every hunter has a moment when the woods go fire. The air shows and time slows down. And in that stillness, you realize you're not chasing these games. Where we go beyond the sounds, the show channels deeper into the stories that fuel the fires. The show is for the ones who sleep over the rust. We hide miles into the public lands, just the chance. And we live for the science before the shots from the back country to the back roads. We sit down with the hunters and trappers. We live for the thrill. Embrace the unknown and return for the stories we're telling. This is more than a podcast. This is the start of something real. Let's chase it. Welcome back to the Chase the Unknown. Today we're joined by Craig James, the creator behind Behind the Grind. Hailing from Wisconsin, Craig's a true all-season outdoorsman chasing game of all kinds, pursuing limits in the gym, and capturing it all on film. We talk hunting, discipline, content, and creation, and what it really means to embrace the grind and chase the unknown every single day. Craig, welcome to the show. Hey, thanks, man. So, you know, for for everyone, you know, just give us a quick uh rundown and you know, quick uh backstory.

Falling Hard For Bowhunting

Powerlifting To CrossFit Coach

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Um, yeah, I mean, backstory, like I said, I was I mean, I was born and raised in Seymour, Wisconsin, and like the outdoors basically came to me through actually my Uncle Nick. Um, he passed away years ago on to cancer. But like I would honestly it'd be every weekend, you know, when the seasons were here, like pheasant hunting, rabbit hunting. Um, he took me gun hunting and stuff like that. He didn't really get much into the archery aspect of it, but like if it was outdoors, it was with my uncle Nick, whether it was open water fishing, ice fishing, everything like that. Um, my dad, he did he did he did some hunting. Um, like when I was growing up, we would we would call it Possum Lodge. So we always get together, you know, a group of guys the night before deer camp, go to the shack, you know. We all sleep overnight out there, whatever. But he would be the one where he'd go for a couple hours and yeah, I'm good, I'm gonna come back and make lunch for everybody. So like he really wasn't like the the diehard aspect of hunting of it. He still did it, but he didn't do it enough to where it's like he wanted me to keep going through it, you know what I mean? So like Uncle Nick was the one always there for me, like hunting-wise, you know, giving me props, tips, stuff like that. Um bow hunting, I did it. I I actually started, crazy or not, I didn't really start getting into bow hunting till almost my middle of my senior year. Um, I was just in a lot of sports, you know, school, stuff like that. And um, you know, turned 21. I didn't really put outdoors first. I always put the night light first. And well, let's just be real here. We waste days the next day after going out crazy hard like that. So I mean I started getting hardcore into bowl hunting, um, probably, I don't know, roughly around like 22, 23 years old. Um and then just bowl hunting to me, like I gun hunted a lot, not saying I didn't, but like when I started bowl hunting and I went and bought my first diamond bowl from um Shields, um, I thought it was I thought it was the coolest thing ever, you know. I put a massive stabilizer on it. I thought, you know, having a I don't know what kind of site it is nowadays, but I I just loved it, you know, and I I shot, shot, shot, and I just fell in love with bowl hunting so much that I just put gun season aside and I just you know I used to gun um used to duck hunt and all that stuff, but bow hunting to me now I just feel is just it's my ultimate passion. Like I I turkey hunt is bull, white-tailed bull. Um, I know this fall, if I have a chance to do it, I want to do it so bad, and it's legal in Wisconsin to smack a goose with the bull. Um I do have a private land property that actually has um it fills up with water every year. And last year bull hunting it, I would always hear geese fly in, fly out. It's just like I always wanted to do it. Just like I wanted to, I don't care. You know, if I'm not successful, I'm not successful. But just to say I can sh I shot a goose with my bowl would be probably my biggest accomplishment ever. Um and bull hunting to me is just it's I guess this is all I it's all I want to do. Like I not that I if a friend asked me to go duck hunting with a gun, okay, I'm gonna go do it. But like I'm not gonna go out of my way because I'm always wanting to have the bowl in my hand, you know, like just everything like that. Instagram, following people on Instagram, you know, and seeing them shooting with like rabbits, squirrels. It's like you can do everything with a bowl if you really want, you know. I mean, as long as you have backup arrows. I mean, I guess that way. Um, but yeah, like you know, the backstory too, you know, like everything like high school. I power lifted in high school. Um, it was I started my freshman year and I went all the way to my senior year. Um, I won nationals twice in my weight division down in Louisiana, Texas. And you know, powerlifting to me was obviously, you know, it's just your max efforts of you know, back squad, deadlift, and bench. And being how small and I am, it's just like I just want to keep going, keep going, you know. And obviously got out of high school, you know, I didn't power lift no more, didn't do any like open lifts or whatever, blah, blah, blah. And just got a gym membership at Planet Fitness, you know, and I'm not saying I didn't like it. It was 20 bucks a month. And you go there 20 bucks a month, you know, you can do everything you want there. But it's just like I needed that, I needed that drive. I needed more of that that grind, I guess I should say, of like, I need someone to push me. Because if I'm in a planet fitness, I'm pushing myself, not saying I can't, but like I would catch myself, like going elliptical, you know, do a couple of reps, uh, scroll through Instagram for a little bit. You know, I wasn't it wasn't that steady movement of like whatever. And um, so then I ended up getting married, and then uh my sister-in-law, she actually at the time owned a CrossFit gym, and she pulled me in by the ear one uh one Saturday morning. Come on, you gotta try this. I'm like, oh god, okay, whatever. I'm gonna give it a shot because she's ain't gonna take no for an answer, so I'm gonna go there and do it. Um, I went in there and did it. I won't sugarcoat it. The first day I did CrossFit, I absolutely hated it. I'm like, there is no way my body can stand any of this. Like the movements they you know, the snatching, the overhead squats. So I'm like, I can't do any of this stuff. But then I just kept coming back, kept going back, kept going back. Now I absolutely fell in love with it. And now I'm a coach there. So it's like it's like now I coach CrossFit. I I'm there practically five days a week working out, you know, doing everything. I did the open this year. Um and like I never thought, I don't know how to how to put it this way, but like I never thought somebody my size, like 130, 32 pounds on a good day. And you know, like it's going to show you though that like being small doesn't mean absolutely anything in this world because if you can do the technique correctly and everything, you can lift as much weight as you absolutely want. Like, was it last last week? Three weeks ago, I ended up actually reaching the 900-pound club, adding all three lifts together at my body weight. And to me, that's a huge accomplishment. And so to other people, like, oh whatever, I can do that in two lifts. That's fine. But like for my size, like I am just blessed to be able to do that, you know. Um, but yeah, I think the backstory is just life is it's crazy. Um, like you know, we got a daughter that's in um, she's in volleyball. She's got now she's starting soccer now. Um, we got two crazy dogs, but we love them to death. Uh, but yeah, all I mean I said it's it's family CrossFit and the outdoors is when I can get out there, I'm either doing outdoors CrossFit or we're doing family stuff.

SPEAKER_02 8:34

Yeah, no, that that's that's pretty amazing, you know. And it's it's the not only obviously we we're talking about hunting and everything like that, and the dedication to hunting, but the dedication to just working out and you know, just all around dedication to of course the family and everything like that, but it really all loops into one. And I imagine, like, especially like for for you mentally, like the discipline that it takes one to you know, like you said, a a guy of your you know, your size and everything like that, just to you're pushing, you're pushing, and you're pushing. And you know, you you were like when you'd go to the gym, like, yes, you can get it done, but there's always like you always want to take it to the next level, you always want to be like on go, go, go, and push yourself to see the best of your ability. And I think, you know, doing what you do in CrossFit and now you know doing what you do in hunting, and you know, you're like, hey, listen, I'm a I'm a bow hunter, this is what I want to do, this is this is what I believe in, you know. Yeah, and I you know, I I understand like I I plan on killing a goose with with the bow one day and stuff like that. And now I've kind of dabbled more into like gun hunting and stuff like that, but bow hunting is just like a whole different thing. But everything is discipline, you know, and mentally, hey, you need to be mentally strong and keep pushing yourself because you know it's not all gonna be perfect in roses and everything like that. So like it's it's it's a pretty good thing.

Mindset, Sleep, Food, And PRs

SPEAKER_00 9:58

Absolutely, and like you said too, like you know, every day you push yourself to be better and better every day until you're a capability, and like I'm more sugarcoated. There's days I go into the gym, I I can't do a three rep, whatever at this weight, and like in my head, I get so upset with myself, so down on myself, you know. And there's been times at the gym I throw my belt to the ground. I, you know, my double unders, for instance, are on point. I slam my rope to the ground, but then it's like I gotta step back and think, like, okay, why are you screwing up? Take a deep breath, relax. It's not you're not competing against anybody else but yourself. And then the next day I can go in there and hit a PR. Or like, it's just it's crazy, like with the mind, what you can actually do if you have the right mindset. And like going back to like the crossfed aspect of it, you know, like the heavy lifting, you know, the the PRs, it's not it, it is all about obviously strength, technique, you know, and having the good muscle to do it. But I look back at two of the other stuff too, of like, how much sleep did you get that night? What kind of food did you eat? Did you did you slam a bunch of soda or did you have junk food? Because I mean, all that takes aspect into it, where like I go to McDonald's, I have a double corporate cheese and a diet coke or whatever, and go to the gym, you think you're gonna back squat 300 pounds, probably not gonna happen because you're gonna probably cramp up, you're probably not gonna be in your stomach's gonna probably tell you to F off because you can have to run to the bathroom. I mean, I can honestly say the days I've hit PRs. I look back at what I have for lunch, you know, and stuff like that, is a lot of water intake, you know, I'm hydrated. Those are the days I have very good success. And I mean, I'm not gonna like said, I do I clean eat. No, I don't clean eat. I try, I I can't even say I try, but like I I don't know. It's to me, it's so hard to clean eat. Like, I follow all these inspirational CrossFit athletes on on Instagram and stuff, and this is like God bless our souls how they do it. Because I personally I can't like if I want an ice cream bar, I'm taking an ice cream bar. If I see a cheeseburger in front of me, probably gonna eat it, you know. Like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 11:59

I agree with you, and it's also we're outdoorsman too, because uh you know, during the season, I mean, how much time you spend, you know, if you're you know, from work to hunting, and then you know, also for you for you know working out and everything like that, like you're on just go, go, go, go, go. And when you're in the woods, like the last thing you want to do is come home, you know, and oh, I gotta worry about eating clean and everything like that. Like, yeah, I eat at quick check like crazy during the season. Like it's so because it's so quick, like, oh my god, get it good, and then I'm I'm right back into to what I need to do, you know what I mean? And the desserts are, you know, yeah. Most outdoorsmen are are crushing desserts while they're while they're hunting and everything like that. So the clean eating it uh on that aspect is definitely, I imagine, hard. And I definitely understand why. Like you you're right, like if you put a cheeseburger in front of me, like I'm not gonna eat it.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

And it's funny that you say that because like today at work, you know, I brought I brought some food in today at work, you know, and walked into the lunchroom and someone had it said uh no standing, take me, it's a blueberry pie. I'm not gonna walk by it and not have a piece of blueberry pie. Like, I'm gonna eat it, you know. Like, should I have probably not, but I'm gonna eat it. Like exactly.

First Bow Buck With No Blood

SPEAKER_02 13:10

Like, what um so you know, look as we go back, you know, and and before we get to you know, behind the grind and and everything like that, you know, you're you're growing up and you know you said you're your uncle and everything like that. Um, when did it like what what's your earliest memory of you know you doing something in in the outdoors?

SPEAKER_00 13:32

Earliest memory doing something in the outdoors. Okay, well, earliest memory I would have to say is when my uncle Nick was still alive. Um, they owned um 45 acres in just out of Seymour, Wisconsin. And you know, they they gave me permission to hunt there, you know. I helped them a lot on the farm though, just to show that respect, you know, and not just use them for the land, you know, stuff like that. And I I'll never forget this. I I was sitting, it was October, uh it was late October, and I was sitting in the stand and I had my back turned and I had the right wind, and I looked over my shoulder, and all I see was a brown blob coming like quartering to me. Obviously, I don't like quartering to me shots. I is quartering away or broadside, but this was my first ever, first ever bowl kill, and I'm sitting like, okay, and it was with my diamond bowl. I mean, it's just crazy. Like with this diamond bowl, I'm pulling back at the time. I was pulling back like 54 pounds, and I'm like, okay, well, the deer was quartering to me, and I pulled back and I couldn't stop shaking to save the life of me. I shot him so high up, but I must have hit a main artery. Well, I shot him so high that we didn't find no blood. So that night I um I went home. I called my good buddy Brandon Schultz at the time, and I'm like, Brandon, I just shot my first ever buck, dude, and I have no blood, and it's supposed to rain tonight. I'm like, I'm sobbing, I'm crying. I'm like, oh my god, this is ridiculous. Like, and it made me not want to keep hunting because I think I don't want to just wound, not saying we are all successful, we we make bad shots, stuff happens, it's life. But like, I'm like, okay, Brandon goes to me, he goes, Craig, go home, have supper, go to bed, I'll be at your doorstep at 6 a.m. I'm like, okay, yeah, he was there at 6 a.m. pounding on my door. So I got up, he goes, All right, let's go to your stand. Where was this deer standing? He literally stood where the deer standing. He I go, I shot him right here. I go, he literally, like, when I shot that deer, he walked across the river, flicked his tail, and just walked away. And that was just where my heart just broke. Brandon's like, just relax. There's you got some main arteries up there. Like, let's just walk this piece. So then got and got to my um and uncle's like property line, did the right thing, called the neighbor, hey, I'm tracking a deer. You go, Ben Box is like, go, go find your deer. We're walking, we're walking. There, and Brandon Brandon goes, Yeah, you're not lying, there's absolutely no blood, dude. Um, I don't know what we're gonna do, but we're just gonna walk to where you've last seen him walking, and hopefully he just kept walking a straight line. Well, 790 yards away, we actually made it to three different properties. And the deer crossed the road, guarded the road, walked through, and all of a sudden we're going, going, and I kind of veered off a little bit. I don't know why. I'm just my everything's going through my head, like I'm freaking out. And all of a sudden, I hear a whistle. Bran goes, hey, come over here a second. I'm like, Oh god, yeah, I think I found something. I'm like, all right. Well, by him, there's nothing. I'm like, dude, are you messing with me? Yeah, he was messing with me the whole time. So when we were walking, we walked across the road, and we actually turned back, and Bran goes, Yeah, your deer's right here. I looked over and there he was laying there. I don't know, honestly, like when we gutted it out that day, whatever, I must have hit a main artery where he just internally bled. And that was my first ever deer. And actually, I'm staring at the rack right now. It's it's just, I mean, to me, it's a nice deer. Like, I'm not saying it's a 120-inch, 130-inch white tail, you know, whatever. But for my first ever gear and that experience I had having one of my close friends at the time with me, I don't think I'm gonna ever not forget that hunt ever.

SPEAKER_02 17:18

Yeah, that's insane.

SPEAKER_00 17:20

Yeah, and it goes down to like, you know, could he have not messed with me at the time because he knew the emotions I was going through? Yeah, but that was just who Brandon was. So Brandon always loved to get under my skin, you know, and kind of give me all riled up. Well, that day I was so riled up that I my heart was skipping beats. I'm almost positive it was.

SPEAKER_02 17:40

Oh man, I mean, the the fact that first of all, the deer traveled just it's incredible. It you know, it's deer and all wild animals are just just absolutely incredible creatures. But you know, when you finally did find like what what was like were you was it a big sign, excuse me, sign of release? Was it did you yell like what kind of was the first thought that went through your head?

SPEAKER_00 18:05

Oh the first thought I remember when so he told me he was let me come over by me. I got about maybe I don't know, 40 yards from him. And um I hadn't I had my backpack on, whatever. I didn't have my bowl with me, which I don't know why I didn't, because just in case, but I just whatever at the time I wasn't really that knowledgeable into like have bringing a bowl for recovery or stuff like that. I got about 40 yards from him, and he looked at me and he goes, Hey, I think I see something. I'm like, dude, you're messing with me. Why do we backtrack? Like, what's going on? And I looked over and I seen the horns sticking up and I seen the I seen the belly. And from 40 yards to Brandon, I made it. I mean, I think I probably ran the fastest 40-yard dash in all gear equipment. And I was like a little, like a little schoolgirl. I ran up to him, I leaped into his arms, gave him a hug, wrapped my legs around his body, and I just squeezed him, like, dude, don't ever do this to me again or I'll kill you. I'm like, and dude, he like I I was in tears, and he he got a little emotional. He didn't shed no tears, but I could tell he was just he was like, dude, this I know this means the world to you right now, and dude, this I'm so proud of you. Like, I like I was proud of myself, and at the same time, like I can't I can't look back at the bad shot because I was still like learning everything, you know, like not like like today when I take that shot, absolutely not. Like, I would never do that again. But just that moment of like excitement, emotion, and how fast I ran to him and jumped into his arms, like it was it was probably the coolest 30 seconds of emotional, like congratulations I think I ever had. Um, but yeah, like I mean there was so much stuff going through my mind at the time. I just I really I don't know, I was almost like I was seeing stars at the time, and he was laying there and we gutted him out, and I finally got my first year ever.

Sobriety, Family First, Smaller Circle

SPEAKER_02 19:53

I love it. I that that's that's a great one. Um, you know, and uh as you you know, you you start, you know, getting older, and I know, you know, like you said, during 21, you know, it was you know the main thing. And I I feel like a lot of a lot of people out there too, I mean me too, um, you know, but you know, when when did you start like, all right, like this is really what I want to do, you know, let's get it back. Like, was there just a moment in your in your life where something like you were like, hey, listen, like it's time to stop doing this as much and you know, start focusing, you know, on you know, the outdoors a little more?

SPEAKER_00 20:29

Yeah, um I said I when I first when I started when I started dating my wife, I actually went sober for two years. Um we went to our honeymoon to Mexico, and of course, you get to the lobby, and you know, it's it's all inclusive, and yeah, yeah, yeah, I had to celebrate a little bit, blah blah whatever. So then went back to having cocktails, and I went another, I went a year, uh was it 11 months? No, a year. I went another year sober, and I mean I'm not saying I don't like to go out and have fun once in a great while, but like I I guess I look back, you know, being married now, I have a beautiful daughter, and it'll be we have a great family bond now. And I just I feel like alcohol to me, like growing up, was always first, and now it's like yeah, I go and have fun maybe once every couple of weeks or maybe once a month, whatever. But like I don't want to fall back into like the bad habits of like being peer pressured anymore by friends that I used to have that would let me just have what I wanted to have, but they always had to throw stuff in my face. Um yeah, I have a couple cocktails here and there now and then, you know, and but like I I think knowing like when I got when I got married and knowing how big of a bond I have with my wife and how much support she gives me and how much of support I give her, like I don't I would never trade that for anything in the world. So It's like I always know that that's always gonna come first. So like if we're out one night, you know, and I I just I I don't need to go, I I don't want to have to go out. I mean it's nice to hang out with friends and stuff. Don't get me wrong, it is, but like I always I'm a believer now that if you say no, which is okay to say no, if your friends respect you and respect your decision, they will still be there tomorrow, the next day, years from now. You know what I mean? And I'm and I won't sugarcoat it. Like, I tell you what though, like since that's happened and stuff, you know, like your your circle really shrinks big time. But and that's okay with me. Like I I come to decide that's that's actually okay with me now.

SPEAKER_02 22:44

Yeah, well, and and I I completely get that. And you know, I I you hear a lot of people, and I kind of do the same. Like, I you know, there's points where you know I'll I'll drink and everything like that, but then there's points where I just like try to just like okay, I don't want to have a cocktail, I don't want to have a drink, I don't want to, you know, get a and you know, my friends are great, you know, so they don't really they won't really pressure me or anything like that, but um it it's just something that as as we get older and everything like that, like it's and and for the people that it's really hard to and it affects their lives in a different way, like yeah, I can understand why it's so hard to move away from, but I would definitely say like hunting has really helped me and and like that. Just one, I want to just be healthy and everything, love working out, but like want to be in shape, I want to be at the best of my ability coming into the season and everything like that. So sometimes that's like, hey, listen, cock I'm not drinking nearly as much during during the off season. You know, I'll start to pick it up a little bit during the during the season and everything like that. I always feel like boom, you know, after a HUD, you know, sometimes you you need it, or you know, like a little bit you kill a big buck, and you're like, all right, like I'm definitely pouring myself like a like a little drink. Or like you said, you go out, you know, maybe you know, I like we go like to go out for dinner and we'll we'll like we'll have a drink or two. Or you know, some day sometimes it's but not not in the mindset of also like what we're doing when we were younger. I mean, just like I I can't even I we were we were out, you know, we had the wild game dinner um uh on Saturday and everything like that. And I had a bunch of stuff going on. It was my friend's 30th birthday and engagement, and one of my best friends' uh death days and everything like that. So we went out and you know, we had ourselves a few drinks and everything like that. And I'm just like, I can't believe they're like I like 12 o'clock hit, and I just wanted to be in bed, you know what I mean? So, like, so it's like, damn, how the hell did I used to stay up till three, four, five o'clock in the morning, drink all day, eat whatever I want, and then just you know, but um that's just it too.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

Like, you know, back in the you know, the early 21, you know, 22-year-old stage. Like, I go on a Friday, Saturday, Sunday vendors because I worked like a shit at the time, and it wouldn't phase me. Like, I could wake up and go get bloody minute and go up. Now I go out all night and we go wife and I go till midnight or whatever. I wake up the next morning, and I literally want to just pill over my head and say, I wasted a whole day now. And I I have to admit, you know, like there's been times like you know, she gets on me, but I know why now. Because, like I said, like Saturday Saturday, we had our friends' baby shower, we had cocktails, you know, and a bunch of people want to go to Stadium afterwards, and we decided not to. Well, thank God we did because I got up Sunday morning, felt freaking amazing. Went out, changed my batteries and my cameras, you know. I got to see turkeys strutting out in the field, so I got a pinpoint of where they're at. And I look back at like, look at that. If I would have gone out all with the friends that we were with, God knows what would have happened, and I wouldn't have done anything I would have done on Sunday, and now it's just I would have been kicking myself in the butt because it's like I'm putting all this effort and time into my passion, and I'm wasting a day not doing it.

Why He Started Behind The Grind

SPEAKER_02 25:51

Yeah, so yeah, no, I I I I definitely feel that and understand that. Um, you know, so let's let's get in behind the grind. Um, you know, so where where did that all come from? Where did you get that idea from, you know, um where like where were you when you're like, hey, you know what? Now the next step is Instagram, you know, next step like photography and everything like that. And behind the grind, where did that first come from? You know, and and what was your your main focus when you when you first started on that?

SPEAKER_00 26:24

You know, it probably started probably actually started last October. I was up in the bowl stand and I'm sitting in my, you know, sitting in the stand, you know, and I was doing all day sit, not seeing a single deer, which it happens on the property, it's a funnel, whatever. And then it's just you know, obviously sitting down and not seeing anything, and a lot of stuff's going through my head, you know, I'm like, God, I just wanna I want to build a brand. And I just wanna I wanted to have a an actual meaning, you know, like a huge core meaning to like behind the grind. Like, what does behind the grind mean? This and that. I'm thinking my head, thinking my head, I got home and I just started thinking and thinking. I'm like, you know what, it is behind the grind. It just makes sense because for one, behind the grind can mean everything, it can be behind the grind of family, um, you know, my CrossFit life, my outdoors life, you know, and and and that's just how it is. Like I grind, I physically grind every day, whether it's work, family, outdoors, CrossFit, like you know, and I'm the one behind it. So it's like behind the grind, and it just made sense to me, and it just clicked. I'm like, you know what, I'm gonna roll with it, you know. And I just I thought to myself, like, okay, at the time, okay, I'm 36 years old, and you know, and I I'm not gonna sit here and sugarcoat it. I thought about saying, screw it, deleting Instagram altogether and blah blah because it's okay, like let's be real here. I didn't start this when I was 18, so I'm not gonna get noticed, blah blah. But then I thought to myself like too, it's like screw it. You know, to get noticed, you have to put in the time, you gotta put the grind in, you gotta do this, you gotta do that, you know. And I just to me Instagram can it can really take a toll on somebody. And I I look at like yeah, you know, what how I started this page and where I'm at now, I mean, it's been less than a year, and I'm already uh at almost at 1200, no, yeah, 1250 followers. And I'm just doing what I want to do on a daily basis, just sharing it now with the public. So it's like I it it's nice, don't get me wrong, it's I'm sure it's great to get 1k likes, you know, or this many views, but at the same time, I'm just I'm gonna start doing it for me now. And I'm I notice now too, like to post when I want to post, post any reel I want to post, it makes it a lot more relaxing and more fun that way, and not having to compete with other people. And you know, it's I don't know, and that's why I put like behind the grind because you know I'm grinding every day, I'm gonna post everything. Like, I'll go and post my best lifts, whether it goes for 10 views or 500,000 views, like whatever. Like I always look at this way too. Like if big a big thing for me too is like you post it and you don't get what you want on it, it doesn't mean that 6,000 people aren't seeing it, they just don't like your post. That's fine. They still see your grind, they still they still see your everyday, you know, progress towards what you want to do. And I just came into realization that you know I'm I'm doing this and I'm just gonna keep doing it. And I I will admit, I got a lot of inspiration from a lot of people on Instagram, and there are some days like the people I haven't even met on Instagram, but I talked to them, not I'm not gonna say on a daily basis, but like a collab with them a little bit, you know, ask them for tips and tricks. And it's just like these like everyone started out at zero followers, whether you they started when they're they started their journey at 18 or they started their journey at 40. It's just it all in mat it, I guess it's the mindset of how you want to create it and how far you want to take it, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 30:12

I I think you know, when when we talk about social media, and you know, I I go over this a lot with with people. Obviously, we we've been doing this for for a little bit here. Um, you know, and it's a personally mentally, and it it is a study like being on social media is just not good for you mentally. It really it really is not. And you know, I think a lot of people, especially like I work with children. Um, I work in psych behavioral with children who a lot of not I wouldn't say not a but a good portion, like there's a percentage of their issues come from social media because they're seeing and comparing constantly, like, oh well, you know, this person has 50,000 followers, or or you know, in their case, you know, this girl looks like this, or this guy has this, and you, you know, I mean everything like that. And you know, as hunters too, and you you see what's it has happened, I feel like less people post kind of their mistakes, less people post, you know, hey, if they shot a spike, people are a little hesitant to to post that nowadays, where it's really only the the big deer, the big bears, the you know, yeah, turkeys with you know really long beards or or you know multiple multiple beards or spurs that are just absolutely incredibly long, you know, people kind of get shit on for killing a joke, you know, or or something like that. Where no, that that should not be the case, no, you know, and a hundred percent you should be proud of what you kill and be able to post whatever whatever you want. Um and then also always coming up with content. I go, one of the things that you know we we got a bunch of team guys, and you know, they're newer to you know running it. It's like well, how well how do you do this for for as long as you're doing it? Like, listen, it's hard on me. Like, I'm not gonna this isn't easy, like coming up with always this this new idea. What can I post? What can I post? Okay, let's not post the same thing over and over again. Like, just come out and creeting, and that's the same thing when you're out in the woods. Part of what we're doing is we're we're we're content creators, you know. So what can we do in the woods? All right, we gotta take this picture and this video, or we gotta do this, and a lot, a lot of b roll and and all these these things that it just it has a wear and tear on you. Oh god, yeah. I tell people right now, like this is it's still fun to me because I love seeing what I can create, even if one person likes it, it doesn't matter. I'll take that one person, yeah, or I'll take fit, I'll take 50,000. Like, we've had some stuff that I've gotten that where and then we've gotten stuff I've worked super hard on and proud of that did not do anywhere close. And it's in the beginning you suck, but once you get over there like, okay, listen, we're this is not for for everyone else at the at the end of the day, like I gotta do it for myself. I gotta do it, you know. My kids are eventually gonna see this stuff, you know. I get friends that who don't know hunting and stuff like that, they love watching this stuff, you know what I mean? And it's it's it's to it's to do that and just to look back and be like, wow, I got to do this. Yeah, I got to experience this, you know. 100% and uh yeah, friend it's tougher on on the younger crowd a hundred percent. And that's where I think it's gonna cause a little bit of issues for for guys like you and I. At the end of the day, mentally we can overcome these these difficulties and everything like that. We we've been through all the trials and errors and and stuff like that, where you know, kids growing up now they only see people killing big deer on you know social media, so they think they have to kill only big deer on social media.

SPEAKER_00 33:42

And that's the exactly what you said too. Like, you know, the whole like thing with social media that can mess with someone's mind so much to where it just makes them go insane. Like, I I'm not gonna lie, like 36 years old, you know, like I'm I'm loving Instagram, I'm loving the the brand I have now, I'm loving that I'm c collabing with people like yourself and other people, you know. And there's so many things I you if I could show you the messages that I get once in a while on Instagram or even on TikTok, it would blow your mind. And at first, it really got to me. It it honestly it got to like a depression stage of life, and then I'm thinking of like, wait a second, okay, why am I getting depressed over somebody that has a profile picture, a cartoon character, and they're just coming at me, just bashing, bashing, bashing. Like, for instance, I um on Instagram I posted I forget, it was a while ago. This was a while ago. I posted a memory of um the buck that I shot over my in-laws for the first time ever when I started dating my wife. And the guy, the guy's comment literally was, you're never gonna be like Lee Ellis. I'm like, well, okay, let's we're gonna back this up here. Yeah, I'm probably never gonna be like him because that guy shoots megas. But I tell you one thing right now, he actually inspires me because he's in the fitness and he's a big Christian, and the guy is just fun to watch on YouTube, you know. Like, yeah, I'm never gonna have the subscribers he has or Instagram followers. I used to care about it, now I don't because I'm not him, you know. Like, but I look at that, you know, all said and done. What I have to work with and what he has to work with is a whole different level ball game. Like, I don't have a camera crew, I don't have, you know, I'm not sponsored by all these companies. Like, you know, I'm not looking to go with a company to get a discount. Like, I just want to go and at the end of the day, I just want to prove myself and take the companies that I'm using to someday they have them reach out to me and not always just get the 40% discount, or you know, and not saying it's a good that bad thing. Because like I look at it this way, like gotta start somewhere. That's how I look at it. Gotta start somewhere. And like like for instance, like my Sense Spray, for instance, Sense Assassin. I'm with them, right now. I I didn't join them for a discount. I joined them because I wanted to try out their product, and I tell you what, their product, me out in the woods for Whittail, it works. Like, I'm not saying it does, it works, you know. But I'm also going above and beyond and grinding my ass off to promote that company to help them out as long as help me. Like, I'd rather help them out more than myself because I know I the product actually works. And I see a lot of these people on here on social media, and I will say it, like I a lot of them do it just for the discount for a cheap price. And you know, and I look at, you know, like if you're gonna be a part of it, grind it out, like post the content, post the videos of why you're using it, post why it how it works, you know. I guess that's but that frustrates me the most, but I gotta let that all you know flow by, you know, and get behind my head because I'm not them, I'm gonna do it for myself because it's gonna show more and more and more in the future.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

Definitely, definitely, definitely agreed on that, you know. And it's it it that's that's the right mindset to to have with without a doubt. And you know, hopefully, you know, people listen to, especially you know, some of the younger, like this is kind of like the mindset. And you know what? For that guy that said, Yeah, you're not gonna be like Leah, I would have been like, Yeah, no shit, thank you. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and but I don't, I don't, I don't want to be like anybody else, you know what I mean. I don't want to be myself, I'll be behind the grind, I'm I'm sorry that hey, you you may want to be like Leah, and that's good for you, you know. But that's not what we we want to be who who we are, you know. I want somebody to be like, oh, like, hey, you know, your your Mike Nitra, you know, created this back damn. Like, you want people like, hey, you you want to be like that guy or something like that. You know, you want to be like, you know, Craig James from from behind the grind, not you know, oh Craig James is like he's like Liela's. Like, no, like you you we want to be unique, and I I think that's another thing. Like, I listen to a lot of this motivational stuff and like stuff that just like I just love like David Goggins and everything, like all these guys, like you know, at the end of the day, like you gotta be who you are. You're we're not trying to be somebody else. Like, I've never wanted to be somebody else, you know, when I was playing hockey at the level that I was. Like, I wanted to be Mike Nitrate. Like, there was no like I take pride in being who who I am. You know, you take pride in being who you are, and I think a lot of people have forgotten, like, oh yeah, yeah, I want to be like this person or the greats, you know, the people who really like you know have success and achieve their their goals, they come into their like, I want to be me. Yep, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 38:42

I don't I don't want to be and that's why they are where they are at the level of their, you know, like everyone thinks, you know, I like I said, like I bring up Lee Ellis again, you know, Seek One Productions. Again, that's his his own brand. He's got he's got team members now, he's got you know, but he also had a start from ground zero and build and build and build and build. I mean, the money he probably invested into getting started is probably mind-boggling. But look at though, he kept doing it for him, like you said, and he didn't care about anybody else, he just kept going and going and going. And look where he is now. I mean, I mean, I guess the biggest one too. Uh everyone's gonna whatever, but Josh and Sarah Bomart, Bomart Archery. You you can imagine the daily backlash those people get in day in and day out. But guess what? They don't care. I mean, look at look where they are now in life, you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_02 39:42

I mean, uh no, they don't care. And honor, listen, I give I give them credit. Like, I really and you know what? I don't have to believe in what they do, and I wasn't there at the end of the day, so like I really I can't really make comment because you know what? At the end of the day, half the people are probably doing illegal shit anyway. And that's and that's as as long as this is my thing, as long as it's not me, I only care about what I do. You know what I mean? I don't care about some somebody else, like, okay, cool. They do, you know what that's gonna be on their kind, like me. No, this is what I believe in as long as I'm doing it, or like, you know, my guy, like people ask me, like, oh, what does it take to be a part of Boondock's hunting? You know, you kind of just gotta have the same mindset as us, you know. And we don't, you know, I don't I don't want to be a part of people or approachers, you know what I mean? Like, I don't I don't want that on for for my brand or anything like that, you know. I want to clean contents, yep. Exactly, you know, so but I will tell you they're phenomenal hunters, regardless that whatever you you may think about them. Yep, and they make some pretty damn good products.

SPEAKER_00 40:44

Uh yeah, they do.

SPEAKER_02 40:46

So, hey, you know what? People are gonna talk shit about them, but they don't care, they're gonna travel to Africa and they're gonna go do what they want to do, they're gonna go to their properties and they're gonna yeah, they're gonna shoot world record crocodiles, they're they don't care.

SPEAKER_00 40:59

I mean, they're I mean, because they're doing it for them, they're not doing it for anybody else.

SPEAKER_02 41:03

Yeah, no, no, a hundred percent. And you know what? The same people complaining are probably the same ones that are buying beast broadheads and and everything like that.

SPEAKER_00 41:10

So, like exactly behind closed doors. I mean, it's just social media, like everyone can be very strong and probably as ripped as Josh Bomar on a keyboard, but they face to face, they ain't gonna say much. No, and that's what social media, that's what social media is.

How Filming Changed Turkey Hunting

SPEAKER_02 41:27

But 100% now where where'd you get into the filming aspect of of everything? Has has film and you know photography been something that you've been doing, or is that like, hey, when you started creating this, this is something you know that you also want to do, like get more into the photography um and film aspect of it?

SPEAKER_00 41:45

Crazy. Okay, it's a long story, long story short. Back in 2007, actually, which is that I don't know if you can see in the camera, but it's yeah, yeah, it's that moment right there. It's one of the mess of tail feather. Yeah, so 2017. This is when I first believe it or not, this is when I first started Archery Turkey hunting. And I was at working and talked to my buddy Jason Olds. I'm like, hey man, I just want someone to come out and film me. Like, I don't, I know, I don't have at that at that time, single, you know, all dating, dating wise. I was like, I don't have the kind of funds to pay somebody to film a hunt, you know. I don't know what you know what they charge or whatever. Jason, my buddy Jason's like, hold on, I'll get you, I'll get you a contact, text them, tell him you know me, he'll he'll he'll be more than happy to help you out. Like, all right, all right. So I text on Dan Lara, Turkey Hunting Junkies. Um, Dan lives in Oneida here, like literally like 30 miles from me. I text Dan, like, hey, this is Craig, this is Craig Ball Bicky. Um, my buddy Jason sent me over to you saying that you don't mind filming people, whatever, for shits and giggles. You know, I didn't think anything of it. Dan goes, oh yeah, yeah, man, yeah. Jason told me that you'd be texting me. He goes, Well, I don't work today, so what time do you work? Tell him like well, I work till 1:30. He goes, All right, I meet you at the um sickle gas station in Seymour. All right. Never met the guy in my life. I don't know what's gonna happen. They're like, you know, is this guy, you know, is this guy legit or is he just gonna try to, you know, whatever? And he met me there and he's a big old, big old Indian dude. I'm like, oh shit. Like, oh boy, like I'm not gonna lie, I'm a little nervous. Hopped in my vehicle and oh, we went to my gun next property. So then Dan was giving me the lowdown, like, all right, all right, so we're gonna film this, you know, where are you gonna set up? So then I usually like turkey hunt-wise, I take my ground bike, it's a the tidewee hub pops. I just put on my backpack and just go. So I told Dan, like, this is where I want to sit. This is where they always come on. He goes, All right, let's just go. I'm I'm here to film. He goes, I'm gonna help you out, but I'm here to film. All right. So we pull down the lane, two times of strut in the field. They pick their heads up, boom, start to the woods. I'm like, oh crap. Right away in my head, you know, not knowing much about turkey hunting at this point, I'm like, this hun's over. Over, you know, blah blah. Dan goes, he looked at me, he goes, Oh boy, you have a lot to learn. He goes, I'm like, What do you mean? He goes, They are nothing like deer. I'm like, All right, all right, I I believe you because you wouldn't come out here if you didn't, you know, know that this was gonna help, this is gonna work out. So, all right, so we get in the truck, blah blah get down, set the ground line up. This is the craziest story ever, and I wish Dan Laura could be listening, like he'll hear this video because I will tell him about it. We get we get we get so the crick line it runs and it bends in like this. So we we we went and sat around the the the hub of the woods on the field and got the ground one all set up. He's out there getting the decoys set up because he knew he has a certain placement of decoys and it works. And since this day, I've been using that same setup, and I've killed since 2017. I've I actually have killed over 17 birds with my bowl. Jeez, it's dude. It I I will I live by this setup to the day I die. It is absolutely phenomenal. So he's setting the ground blind. He's I mean he's setting the um turkeys up, whatever decoys up. I'm in my ground blind, I'm literally hunched over, getting my bowl and my my ground steak. He comes around the back end, his camera's sitting right here. He sits down, not more than two minutes after he sits down, he puts his hand on his shoulder and goes, Don't move. I go, What? He goes, dude, there's two times by your decoys. I'm like, okay, this guy's a jokester because he just you you you just got in from the ground blind, and he goes, Don't move. I'm like, okay, I'm not moving, like I'm freaking out right now. He goes, All right, slowly look up, come make this up. Two times. The two times that we busted out of that woods, we didn't even call one time. They must have came back out to see what the heck it was. They came around that lip and they seen the decoy setups, they bum rushed our decoys. That hunt lasted six minutes. And since that day, how fast that hunt lasted, it didn't even feel like I was hunting. And smoked the bird right behind the wingtail, boom, dropped him right there, and that was my first bird ever with the bull. And since that day, I mean I could talk for 12 hours straight about turkey hunting. I mean, since that day is when my mind got clicked around, and I'm ungodly addicted to turkey hunting. Like it that to me, don't get me wrong, I white doll hunting will always be at the top of the game for me when it comes to the rut and stuff like that. But there's something about turkey hunting that that day forward got me absolutely addicted, and now I live and die by spring turkey season in Wisconsin. Like I will do everything in my power to kill a bird, and I will I buy multiple tags a year, and there's only been one year I haven't filled a multiple tag.

SPEAKER_02 46:57

So if you could only do one, would it be deer or turkey? Oh god.

SPEAKER_00 47:03

I'm gonna get it. So okay. Because I live in Wisconsin and our DNR system for sprintery hunting is really messed up. Because I live in Wisconsin, I will say, I will say white tail. Now, if I lived in the like Nebraska, where you you know you start April, whatever, and you got two Tom takes, you can hunt all the way till Memorial Day weekend, and if you kill those two Tom, you can you can buy multiple, then it might be a different story. But Wisconsin has it so screwed up that whitetail season will always be number one because of that fact.

Seasonal Prep And Wind Discipline

SPEAKER_02 47:39

Gotcha, gotcha. Okay, I I I get that. I get that for sure. Um now for let's see. Now, real real quick, because we are I guess there kind of really isn't much of an off-season for you. Um, you know, but you know, I guess when you're in the off season after turkey is done, before we get into deer season, you know, does your does your training change going through the seasons and everything like that, you know, from maybe turkey season to deer season or or any other wild animals that you're you're gonna be go after, like or you just it's crossfit. Like, is there just a do you focus on on more of something during a certain type of season or during during the offseason more than you do during the season?

SPEAKER_00 48:25

Yeah, so like okay, like okay, for instance, spring season coming up here in Wisconsin. Um, next weekend starts week one. So I'm taking my sister-in-law out for first time ever. Spring season for Wisconsin goes until Memorial Day weekend, which will be week six. Once week six is done, I will literally go up the next day, pull my cell cameras out, and I will go out there, hang out my mox scrapes, and I will get everything set on those mox scrates for white toll season. And then I normally then June, the first weekend of June, I will get up early in the morning at sunrise and I will make sure my ground blinds, everything, my ladder stands or wherever I'm putting them on the property are set, locked, and loaded. And then summertime really, I mean, I just basically just monitor the cell cams. You know, I make sure, you know, hey, you know, I pattern them, you know, but you know, don't me wrong, cell cams are great. I love cell cams, but like I I still go, I went back, I did go back to going old school. So like cell cams, you know, you you you can get a shitload of pictures, right? Blah blah. But then you lose track of all those pictures, right? They just keep coming through, coming through. So if I find a buck that I want to target, you know, in the summer when he's growing the velvet and he's looking big, I'm like, okay, this is kind of the buck I want to kind of want to go after this year, or multiple bucks. I'll go on my notebook and I will literally put the date, the time he came in, the wind, and the moon crest. I'll I will do it all. And I just started that last year, and now last year, I'll admit it, I didn't shoot a buck, but I didn't shoot the one I wanted. The one I wanted the neighbor shot. But it is what it is, right? That's that's how it, that's how hunting goes. Um, but I'm I've noticed too with my hunts, with sitting in the right wind, you know, and stuff like that. I seen so many more deer. I've I mean I passed up in Crocco, I passed out five different bucks, and I passed up an A pointer this year that I maybe probably should have shot. I mean, I just I don't know because I knew there was two bigger ones out there, and the the two bigger ones out there made it through the season. So it's because the um the neighbor, two neighbors down, found both matching sheds, and they're they're they're big. So um, yeah, the the transition from turkey to whitale. I honestly right after week six the turkey hunting, my mindset is right on it's on whitetail, and then when I'm not out in the woods prepping the mock scrapes or refreshing them, I should say, I'm in the gym. 24-7.

SPEAKER_02 51:03

Gotcha, gotcha. Yep. No, I I love that you that's how you kind of run your trail camera. And I think that for years I keep saying I'm gonna do that, I'm gonna do that. This year I definitely do plan on getting just a specific notebook, or I use my my notes in my um in my phone. So like that's how I do my hunts. Every hunt is dated, location, method, what yada yada yada from all the the weather and everything like that. And then my encounters with with animals, where they're kind of coming out of, like what direction, what you know, because it's something I the next step is to getting into the trail cameras, uh, especially with obviously mature bucks that that you're gonna be going after and everything like that. And I think that's just such a from the people I know who do it, and you know what, yeah, you unfortunately had the the you know the neighbor shot it, you know, and everything like that. But you know, especially for people who can't get out into the woods nearly as much, you know. So where you really have to pick the proper dates, I think it's even more important to that little bit extra effort of getting a trail camera picture, it's the buck you want, you get all the information and you write it down, and then when that season time comes, you are going to see a pattern because they all have a pattern. They all have a pattern, you know, and and it's going to yes, you know, and it may it'll probably change a little bit in once you know they shed velvet and everything like that. But for the most part, I really don't think too much of the wind, the wind direction is something they definitely like. I noticed that like they're coming out on on certain uh certain times and and everything like that. So that's another thing that like I've definitely noticed that that's oh 100% and everything like that.

SPEAKER_00 52:52

And it's fine that you say it, but you know, the wind direction. I'm a true believer in it. Like, if you want to see a deer, whether you shoot one or not that night, if you want to see them, you gotta play that win really well. And I'll never forget it was last year, and it was it was the start of my rut. It was Friday evening. I got out to my stand, the corn was still standing, but the farmer on our on grandma's side leaves a good 20-yard stretch between the woods, between the woods line and the field itself. So I sit there, I religiously sit there because I know they're gonna walk through there. I have a mox grape 20 yards out. I'm sitting there and all of a sudden look back and beautiful wide A come from behind me. The wind's blowing this way, like he's gonna come in. Um it's a chip shot. This game's over, like I'm gonna shoot the biggest biggest year to date. And all of a sudden, he literally stops 60 yards from me. Wasn't looking at me at all. Then I'm like, oh my god, what the heck? So I took my I took some like I had some like some like a little bit of cloth, whatever fuzz, and I just I I literally just threw it in the air. That cloth would literally went and started swirling. I'm like, oh my god, that deer didn't run away, but he knew something was up. He literally just stopped, put his head down, turned around and walked away. Sunlight and shooting light or um legal shooting light is done. All right, slow got down from my stand. I didn't even use my headlamp. I just I slowly went down because I know my route across the river. If the river is very shallow at the time, it's literally ankle deep. So I know how to get back. Not more, not more than five minutes getting back to my in-law's house, having a beer with my father-in-law. My cell camera goes off, and what does he do? He comes right back through, and there he walks right by my cell camera. Yep, it's it's insane. I shouldn't say it's insane, but it's just like those deer know. Like he never looked at me once, but they're not stupid, and they're not that big for some dumb odd reason. So I mean, it just I mean, I just love it. That's again, that's why behind the grind, like I'm freaking grinding every day. Like if I'm gonna shoot it, you know, if I see if I see a wide six or you know, a unique looking six or whatever, I'm gonna take it because you know I look at going back, you know, going back to our previous conversation about success. I to me having success with a bull means more than 180 inch deer because like yeah, it's just the adrenaline rush of like holy crap, I I put my homework, I did my homework, and now I can I can say I can actually put on their A plus at Ace the test. You know, and I can't do that every year, but the years I can do that, it's worth that two-year, three-year, four-year wait of shooting a freaking nice buck.

Filming Versus The Moment

SPEAKER_02 55:49

100%. Uh we got a few more questions for you, but one I really because I've never gone over this with I've never asked this question before and in the four years, five years that we've been recording a pod. And you know it's a difficult, difficult one because not everyone films and everything like that. But you know, one that I how do you balance the grind of filming versus fully experiencing the hunt? Oh, that actually is a good question.

SPEAKER_00 56:19

Um, okay. I haven't mastered that yet. I will I will say I haven't mastered it. I don't know how I'm gonna master it either, but I guess this is how I'm gonna say this is how I'm gonna answer that. So I look at it this way. Because like you said earlier, being content creators, digital creators, you know, getting the media out there, stuff like that, the b-roll. If I have the opportunity, like this goes for spring turkey and whitale, you know, anything filming-wise, if I have the opportunity where I I can see him coming from a distance where there it's not like a sneak attack or whatever, I will definitely boom run that film and I will I'll I'll angle it to basically to where I feel the shot's gonna happen. But like if I'm in the position where I'm in my deer stand, if I'm caught off guard or whatever, and he's already there, or say a gobbler, a gobbler rushes into my decoys, I always tell myself, yes, media is good, video content is great, but success for me is gonna be number one, and the video role will always be number two. And if I can get the if I can get it on video, awesome. If I can't, I don't care. I'm making the shot and social media will see the kill shot or that they'll see the success photo. So if I can film, I can do I will do it a hundred percent. But I've learned that solo filming is absolutely brutal. Like it it's to me personally, it's freaking hard. Like, I mean, trying to be able to have a bowl and have your arm and trying to angle it and stuff like that. Like, I've if I can't get it on film, I'm not gonna be butthurt about it because I'm making sure that Turkey is either dying or that the buck in my lifetime is gonna hit the ground. Yeah, that's the way I look at it.

SPEAKER_02 58:19

Agreed, agreed. Plus, you know what I always tell people is as of right now, we're not getting paid like the juries and everything like that to make sure all these these kills are are exactly plus they have people filming it for them, but like well, right, exactly. Yeah, but there are certain solo content cre content creators that guess what they're getting paid, like they're actually getting paid and everything like that. So, like it's a completely different, different circumstance. Um you know, this year. I mean, I talked about it, you know, in episode before, like thank god I run multiple cameras, you know. I gotta you know, I have my other cameras, so I'm running like two or three, two cameras, gonna be three cameras next year that I'm gonna set up, which I'm starting to become a wild man with it. But I I enjoy just creating content and like you said, the B roll. I just love doing the different angles and seeing what I can come up with and and everything like that. And that's that's kind of why we why we do it. But like right now getting the harvest, getting the kill, and making not only the kill, but a correct shot and a proper shot is way more important right now than getting the kill on on film.

SPEAKER_00 59:30

Yeah, 100%. 100%. I mean, you know, and going back to like you said, multiple cameras. I mean, I run my I run my night I run my Nikon camera. You know, that's my main, my main camera, my main kill shot camera. Um I used to have a I used to have a GoPro and it it just ended up just blowing up on me. It just doesn't work.

SPEAKER_02 59:53

No GoPros, I'm team no GoPro. I use I rock DGI now.

SPEAKER_00 59:57

Okay, so like and I'll be straightforward with you. Like I have the iPhone 16 Pro Max. I've I actually have a remote now, a Bluetooth remote, to where if I have my so I have a clamp for my phone, if I put it on a tree by me or whatever, or on my camera arm, I put my phone up there the whole time. And if someone texts me when I'm boarding the stand, whatever, I go on my Apple Watch, I'll just shoot the message on my Apple Watch. And if I have a deer come in, if I want to b-roll like a me shooting and then the camera, you know, kill the kill shot, all I gotta do is go on my watch, hit record, and it's already my phone pops up and it records me right away. So I have less movement that way now, too. Where it's like, and my my iPhone 16 Pro Max, like, dude, the images and the video quality that takes. Yeah, it's phenomenal. It's ridiculous, dude. So it's like I'm not trying to say like I'm a cheapskate, like I'm not, but like I guess I'm not, and I am. I don't know. Like if it works for me, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna fix it. Like, if it works, I'm gonna do it the way I want to do it. Like I said, it's I'm my own person, I'm gonna go how I want to go about it, and then I will collab my videos just the way I can.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:11

Yeah, and I think you know, with with the iPhones, and that's what a lot of people and you you'll see. A lot of people just you don't need the expensive cameras. And listen, I I do love getting you know my cameras because you know, sometimes my phone is for my phone, like I'll you know, I I'm a big podcast person, or like just keep it in my pocket or or whatever, or during fantasy or during football, big football person. So like I'm watching football while I'm in the while I'm in the woods and everything like that, going crazy about you know my fantasy teams and everything like that. But you know, the quality, you know, of these can of these phones are phenomenal, and that's a big part of what iPhone does. Like, hey, you can use your phone to create content on any level of what you're doing. It doesn't have to only be hunting, it could be, of course, anything, right? And especially I always tell people all you gotta do is turn it and then film it like this too, and then you'll actually get the get the view of of everything, and it won't be just that skinny view just for your phone, where then you could put it and match it with you know your actual camera or GoPros or DGI or anything that you're using. Um and it's good, like sometimes, like honestly, like hey, I I had a clutch moment and I left you know my batteries in the in the truck for for my cameras, and you know what? This is what I gotta use. The quality is still going to be really, really good.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:36

Oh, yeah, 100%, dude. And that's the thing, too, is like for the longest time before I have my before I bought my Nikon camera, I would again, like you said, phone sideways and that 4K 4K HD video, dude. That was that was crystal clear. I mean, it's it's ridiculous what these phones can do nowadays.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:56

And I'll I'll honestly to say too, probably way easier to record on the phone than it is the camera. Cause like I'm not I didn't grow up in the so I still there's still stuff that I'm learning about my camera and what the things can do. If you're a professional photographer, it's a completely different situation. But for what we're doing, like damn, it's just so easy. Boom, click record for the video. Like you said, make sure it's in 4K and and all these different things, and then boom, there you go. That's all you got to do. And if you want to go on Instagram live and change it up, you can also go on Instagram live at the same exact time and and give you know, you know your followers a different, and that's something that you know. Um, we have a guy, City Boy Outdoors, every opening day. The minute freaking he goes live, I'm like, oh, he's got a doe in front of him, he's about to kill a doe like this. This is what he does. It's kind of become a tradition for me to jump on Instagram and everything like that and and watch him kill a deer while I'm out hunting and everything like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:53

I've always wanted to do that too. Actually, go Instagram live. And I might do that this spring, actually, for tree hunting. Um, and it's funny that you stay about the whole thing. It's it's easier to record with your phone because of which it it really is. Because long story short, the um this past December, um out of a private property that I have here in Depeer, Wisconsin, I had a lot of birds come on camera. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna screw up, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna go buy a fall tag. Like, I'm just gonna do it. And I had my nike on camera, I had it set up, and I literally was in my blind for about four minutes. I hit my I hit my pot call, not thinking anything of it. Like, okay, this fall. They're they're not gonna respond to calls and fall, like whatever. He comes up, he picks his head up. He literally, and it sucks because I can only tell a story. I don't have proof of it, but the freaking bird struts in December, it's December 7th. He struts, he comes running into my decoys. Now, mind you, my decoys, I had a pound of stakes into the ground because the ground was froze. He comes strutting in. I went to go hit my record button. No, I hit the wrong button. I hit the actual um like the whatever you look through your camera view, and I'm like, Oh, my my battery's dead. No, no, no, I hit the wrong button, so I didn't get it on film. Well, if I were to use my phone, it would have been easier, just hit my Apple Watch and it would have been filmed for me. So it's like it's the little things like that, like too. And I didn't care because like whatever. I've actually tipped my tripod out to the side and I shot the bird at nine yards. Like, I don't I don't care, and that was actually my biggest bird to date, too. So I love it. Yeah, that's amazing. It just it's crazy how fast things happen. It really is.

Rapid Fire Plus Wisconsin Predators

SPEAKER_02 1:05:28

Oh, yeah. You you just you just never know, um at all. Um, so we're gonna we're gonna do the last segment here. We're we're gonna wind it down and everything like that. But a quick um rapid fire questions, basically, for you. Um, you know, the one our podcast called Chase the Unknown, our catchphrase chase the unknown. When you hear that, what would what does chase the unknown mean to you? Chase the unknown.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:52

What it means to me, like I it's funny that you say that because I've been thinking about this too a lot. When you when I when I think about chase the unknown. You're never gonna know you're never gonna know what the unknown is unless you grind grind for it. Like, as on like you know, should I go to hunt this day or should I that how are you gonna know? Chase the unknown, like you you don't know what's gonna happen tomorrow, you know what's gonna happen the next day. I mean looking looking like future-wise, too, like you know, like okay, oh, today's gonna be a good day to hunt or not. Well, you're never gonna know unless you go out there and do it. So chasing the unknown, like you never know what the situation is gonna happen or what's what the situation is gonna be.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:36

So I'll tell everyone this off of what you're saying, just real quick. I um one of my buddies, Merrick and Mike, he's been on the podcast for Darnest Day Outdoors many times, yeah. And he literally talked about he's like, Listen, it was like 80 something degrees, and he's like, I'm not gonna go hunting because there's gonna be no deer moving. He had his hitless buck right in front of his camera, yeah. And he was sitting at home, I think, on the couch and everything. And you just like, yes, we think we know everything, but these animals can be so unpredictable that you don't know. And yes, during at the end of the day, this while this is where I've gotten the mindset. Like, even on hot days, they're in the woods somewhere, they're gonna get up on their yeah, they may not get up on their feet nearly as much, or they're just gonna stay as close as they can to water or something like that. But they are still going to move at some point, and you still have the opportunity to knock one down.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:31

Oh, 100% do it because they know it's funny that you say that. Because, like this past September, I was sitting in my um my field stand, soybeans, pure green, 83 degrees out. I was sweating like a mad dog. People are telling me, Oh, you're gonna see no deer. Guess what? The mosquitoes are bad. They're gonna push them out of the into the fields. And guess what? Three dogs come out of the fields, and that buck that I should have shot. The neighbor ended up shooting. He stepped out 100 yard yards from me, flicking his tail, flicking his head, blah blah because obviously mosquitoes all around. They move like mosquitoes will push deer, and when it's hot like that, they're gonna they have to move. They're not just gonna sit and get eaten up. Like, for instance, like you and I, you you know, you go spring turkey hunting, whatever, and it's 80 degrees out, we sleep outside. Well, we're not gonna sleep still if the mosquitoes are all over us. We're gonna constantly get up and move and run around or walk around. Yeah, the deer are gonna move.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:27

Like, I the bugs have a that's another thing. The bugs do have a major factor on big factor, you know, movement and everything like that. So that's another really good key piece right there for especially for anyone listening who didn't know that. Um, what's your dream hunt location? I always do dream animal and dream hunt location.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:48

Oh dream animal, dream hunt location. Well, dream animal. I like I said, it's gonna be with the bowl. We all know it's gonna be with the bowl. Yeah, it's gonna be with the bowl. Um I I know it sounds crazy or not. Like I know you got you got Blackberry, you got you know, Alaskan moose, you know, stuff like that. I have watching I just I would love to go out west on whether it's a week trip and with a bow, you know, I want to go face to face, spot and stalk with a freaking elk. And I think the reason why I say that, the reason why I say that is because like you look at how big elk are and you look at how little I am. You imagine me standing freaking 40 yards full of draw from an elk, like I would be probably pissing the shit in my pants or something. Yeah, I've always wanted to do it, I've always wanted to go out elk hunting, and eventually someday this will happen. Um that is that is a dream hunt of mine. I mean, I have a lot of dream hunts. I mean, we all do, right? We all do, we all do. Um, I guess that theoretically would be right now, my dream hunt would be to go out, spot and stalk an elk on the ground. Favorite wild game meal. Ooh, favorite wild game meal. I'm gonna have I'm gonna have to say this is crazy, but so my buddy Brandon, he is a diehard duck hunter, and he's very successful at duck hunting. Um I'm gonna have to say I'm gonna have to say I'm gonna have to say duck. Duck is probably the best I've ever had. It is the way he made it is probably why it's at the top of my list. But I will say this though. My dad, my dad has smoked so a dough I shot like years ago. I took the whole backstrap and he cut it in in the thirds. He put it in a smoker. And that, if you want some medium rare backstrap, fuck that dude, you could cut it with a fork.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:09

Never thought about doing that to a backstrap. I might have to do that. I got a bunch of backstrap left. I might have to do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:15

Oh, that was probably the best. That was probably the best backstrap I ever had. Um, if you ask me how to smoke on uh how to cook a choggy breast, my wife would tell me right now to go get lost because it was the worst thing I've ever done in my life. Really? I screw I screwed it up big time. That was my fault. Um, long story short, real quick here. I shot a bird last spring. Um, I had my buddy smoke it, and he did it the right way, and you could peel it like a brisket. It was the best turkey I've ever had in my life.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:49

Yum, yum. I um I will say, wild game animals, if you look at really high-end restaurants, they're always at the top of the list, whether it's venison, duck, it like, and that's what I always tell people like you may not know because people are like, oh, like, can you listen? This is why chefs want wild game animals, and it's big, it's very popular. But I will say on the duck thing, hands down, I think that's in the most like high-end restaurants, you're going to get at least one duck entree is going to be in almost every single high high-end restaurant because duck is just that good. And I love duck too.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:32

Oh, yeah. And I don't know, like the way my buddy, the way my buddy cooked it. I mean, you can cook obviously any way you want, but I don't think there's a bad way to cook duck because that and he, I mean, he wrapped it in bacon and it was it literally melted in your mouth. Like it was that good. It was just delicious.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:50

Um, go-to piece of gear you don't leave home without. And this is obviously like whenever I ask, obviously, not your bow or or something like that, but something that you really need to have, you know, or you may feel off if you if you don't have it in the woods.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:07

Are you talking like a uh no, not is it private land or public or just just in general?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:13

What would it be okay? So let's go with the different, let's give your private and public because I just want to see why it would it would be different.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:21

So if I'm going public, knowing the crappy phone service we have here, if I'm deep in the public, I I I go old school, I go GPS. Because when I go deep in the public, and I'm not gonna lie to you that I have done it once and I'll never do it again. I went out there with just my phone, my phone 100%, but it told me I was going this way, I was going to the complete opposite. I will always use a GPS like compass if I'm in deep in the public with no service. Now, if I'm on private land, something I wouldn't go without it. That's oh that's that one's tough because I I wouldn't go without private land for me is pretty pretty easy only because of the fact is like I'm on family land, so I'm not yeah you know hunting that far away. I would probably not go. Sounds crazy or not, but I probably won't go without my chest pack only because of the fact is I can I can hold more storage. My phone, my you know, my my binos, my range finder. I can I can actually hold more in, throw more my backpack. That that way I know I have everything with me. Yeah, um, public land is totally different though. Like I public land, I'm gonna bring, you know, I mean, I don't go crazy places where there's wolves, you know, or stuff like that, but I was gonna ask that.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:52

We're gonna we're gonna have to touch because I definitely need to get you back on because we didn't even get to really, really touch on what it's like hunting in Wisconsin. I've gotten um full Quentin from Full Draw Pursuit on on the floor, and he's out in Wisconsin, and he's he's been stalked by a wolf, so like I wanted to get into that, but we're gonna have to read yeah different one another day.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:16

Like when the stalking wise of the wolves, that that shit's real. Like, um that that is some crazy, crazy stuff up there, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:25

Yeah, he he was telling us stuff, and like you know, real quick, you know, he was telling us stuff about Wisconsin that I had no idea, like, because I think you guys have mountain lines too, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:33

Yeah, they're well, we have mountain lines. Um like I'm gonna say more of well, I know like when he used to live in Toma, yeah, he they they're all there, they're up in Hayward, Wisconsin, stuff like that. And you know, long story short, the wolves. Now, obviously, we have wolves, but they were known to be more northern, like Hayward, you know, Iron Mountain type area. I mean, I have coal workers that in Seymour, Wisconsin, but we are literally central Wisconsin, Green Bay, Wisconsin, and there's people sending me pictures of wolves on Brown County Road, wolves in Pulaski. Well, I mean, they're starting to get more comfortable in the area, and it's I'm not gonna lie to you, like it's sketchy. Like, of course, I don't know. Like, I can deal with coyote. I'm not worried about coyote, I have to do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:18

Coyote is way way different than a wolf. Wolves are you talking about they don't mess around? You're talking about a they don't mess with people, but you're still talking about an apex predator, you know. Exactly. You're still talking about not only what and I don't want to get into the rabbit hole, we're gonna have to get in this rabbit hole next time, but like yeah, yo, black bears. I don't really feel black fear black bears in New Jersey just because I'm so used to them, but like you go on somewhere like grizzly bear, you get grizzlies where it's wolves, but wolves have a pack, you know, and that's really like okay, one. I mean, I really don't want to encounter one, but if you encounter one, it's like, oh, if you encounter a pack, you're kind of you're shit out of luck.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:59

You're kind of shit out of luck, yeah. Yeah, and and the thing is too, is then I've had a lot of co-workers like real quick here. I have a lot of co-workers like, oh yeah, I've seen one wolf on the field. Like, well, and I always tell them, like, his name's Guy. So I always tell my work, like, well, where's the other four or five or six? Because you know what, they're not far behind, just so you know, yeah, you know, and and the thing, you know, black bears, I'm not too worried about them because I've had him on cell camera and crackle. Um, the only thing I the only thing that kind of like worries me though, once in a while, because if you know, obviously, and you know this too, you get a cell, hair cubs, and you get between those, then you gotta you gotta have a problem. Yeah, but other than that, though, black bears are more scared of you than you are of them.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:39

Yeah, I and honestly, um, on that, you know, people have heard me talk about this before, but you know, the the the younger males, the adult, the the teenage boars, you know, not the big boars don't I so I love seeing big boys because first of all, they don't give a rat's ass about anything, and they just you know they go on their way and they know they're the biggest, baddest thing, so nothing is really gonna mess with them. So they just put it's the the adolescents, those teens that really they kind of push where they think they're bad, you know, and they're getting pushed around by the bigger males, so they want to push around something else, and they and they also don't know you too well, you know, versus the big males, they they don't want to be bothered by humans and stuff like that. We had an adolescent um uh bear stalk stalk me this year. Um, and that's never happened with a with the big boar, it's never happened with a a mom with with cubs that I've seen in the distance and everything like that. Like they usually they just wanna they just wanna get get going and get far away. And you know, the the adolescents they're they're kind of the ones that are just like you know how every animal every animal human is as they're going through that young teenage stage of of life, you know, you you you test boundaries. Um 100 last one for you. One word to describe your mindset heading into a hunt.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:01

Um one said, uh one uh don't panic. Don't panic. Like just I I always tell myself too, like, you know, like I don't I don't go into a hunt thinking that I'm gonna be successful, but if the time comes, like I go into a hunt thinking, okay, if he's there, deep breath, do what you gotta do. And that's a big thing that goes back to me saying just don't panic. If you don't panic, take deep breath, you can do it.

Final Thoughts And Where To Follow

SPEAKER_02 1:19:31

Definitely. I like that one. I like that one because it's you know it's a thing at the end day. Yeah, you're you're and I have all different types of forms of success. So like I really go, my first goal is to see see a deer, or if I'm setting up a new sign or hot sign or whatever. You know, there's specific little goals that I'm going to, but at the end of the day, the big major goals like getting in bow range and having the opportunity. You can't panic, you have to take it slow. You there's all these different things where you gotta make sure, boom. I always tell myself to breathe. You know, my biggest breathe is just breathing. Yeah, yeah. Deep breaths, let's let's you know how to do this. I have to like code, especially if it's the doe's. Yeah, I don't have that issue with doe's, you know what I mean? With big bucks, it's like, all right, you you know what you're doing. Come on, you've done this before. Let let's take it slow. You the heart rate's starting to get like, let's don't come on, calm down, you know, work on your deep breathing, you know, and then you know, execute, you know, fall through, execute, do what you need to do so you can have the success, and also you could be happy instead of being miserable and be like, oh damn, it was a bad shot or something like you know what I mean. And and we all we all know the you we all know how it is as a as bow hunter. So oh 100, dude. 100. I want to thank you so much. Uh any last words you you want to say before we get going?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:55

Uh no, man. I appreciate you know getting me on here and talking and whatever and collabing, and it was good, it was fun, and we gotta do it again.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:05

Definitely, definitely. We'll we'll definitely do it again since you and we'll probably get you and Quentin on at the same time so we can really dive into Wisconsin and everything like that. That would be a pretty good uh episode. That would be cool. Yeah, for sure. Definitely. Well, we want to appreciate you and thank you for coming on. Everyone, make sure you go check out Behind the Grind. Link is gonna be down in the description below with our extra Instagram page. Go hit them up, go give them a follow. It's got great content going on over there. Um, we appreciate you. Everyone, I hope you guys enjoy this episode, and we'll see you guys next time.