Opening And Show Premise

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Every hunter has a moment when the woods go quiet, the air shifts, and time slows down. And in that stillness, you realize you're not chasing the game. You're chasing something bigger. Welcome to the Chase the Unknown podcast, where we go beyond the saddle, past the show cameras, and deep into the stories that fuel the fire. The show is for the ones who lose sleep over the rut, who hike miles into the public land for just a chance, and who live for that silence before the shot. From the backcountry to the back roads. We sit down with hunters and trappers, with relentless stories, who live for the thrill, embrace the unknown, return with the stories we're telling. This is more than a podcast. This is the start of something real. Let's chase it. Welcome back, everyone. And today we're gonna dive deep into some wild stories, the real moments, and the raw truth behind the hunt. Today's episode is a special one, and we're here with Zach. Uh my god, I just completely just spiker, dude. It's all good. And you know what? The crazy, like let me finish the intro first and then um from Echoes of the Hunt. If you don't already follow him, you're missing out. Zach's mission is all about giving real hunters a voice. No fluff, just authentic stories that deserve to be heard. From public land battles to heart pounding moments in the stand. This is the kind of storytelling that keeps the hunting tradition alive. Listen, I I don't think ever in the five years that I've been doing this have I fumbled a last name that badly. And I knew it too, but because I was saying, like, I I don't know what I just had a jerk dirt dirt moment doing 55 hours of work in four days. Uh dude, I don't respond, man.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

Hey, that happens. 55 hours is a long week for you, man.

SPEAKER_02 2:11

Well, um Zach, well welcome to the show. Why don't you give uh everyone out there a quick um you know intro and you know a background about yourself?

SPEAKER_00 2:21

Hey, uh so yeah, um Zach Spiker. I decided to start this page, Echoes of the Hunt, not too long ago. I've been actually thinking about starting a uh page, something similar to this a while ago, just never had it really going. Um, but grew up not hunting at all. Um, I was about 15, 16 when I started like really looking into hunting. And then I met my now wife back in high school, and then in 2008, her dad took me on my first hunt. So I was like, all right, try and figure this out. Didn't see anything, of course, because you know I didn't know what I was doing. Um but then I left for the military, so time went on, and then as I would go home on leave, that's when the hunts would start, and that's when I started realizing like how I how much I love this. And then just over the past 16 years, it has become part of my family. I feed my family through hunting. We have our own garden and everything. Like we're just trying to live off the land, if you will, and that's pretty much how it all started, man. It's just been fun learning new things, meeting new people. That's that's what I love most, is just meeting new people.

First Hunt Expectations And First Deer

SPEAKER_02 3:26

Yeah, so you you started hunting around 15, 16 later later in life, you know. Um, what was what was that like? So, like when you first like were driving to the woods, or what like what was going through your mind when you actually figured out that you this is what you're gonna be doing to go into your hunt? Do you remember your first expectation?

SPEAKER_00 3:46

Oh, yeah, I remember my first day. I didn't know what to expect, and I was just sitting in a drive in the uh passenger seat, just kind of like looking around, and I was like, all right, I guess this is it. Wake up at four in the morning for God knows what. And I remember walking to my stand and I had my flashlight, and I'm I had my rifle in the other, and I'm just like, what am I doing out here? And then I hear a twig break and I'm like swinging right over. I'm like, oh god, didn't know what to expect. Got into the stand, sat there, and of course, what am I what am I doing? I'm just we didn't have the internet on our phones yet, really. So I'm just sitting there just looking around, and next thing you know, I fall asleep.

SPEAKER_02 4:22

So I was like, of course, classic, classic, yes, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

And then uh, but I woke up and I see this deer, and I'm like, oh, cool, it's a deer, totally oblivious to what I'm doing. I look down at my rifle, I'm like, oh yeah, I need to use this thing. I get the crosshairs on the deer, and for some reason I just didn't pull the trigger. I was just so fascinated by nature at that moment, like everything just stopped, and I just watched her move. She kept looking back, and then this buck comes out right behind her, and I was like, Oh, snap! It wasn't big, it was like maybe a five-pointer, but I was just like, This is really awesome. So I let them walk, got into the truck, uh, talked to my my buddy, and I was just like, dude, that was fun. He was like, Tell me about it. I told him the story what what I just told you, and he just looked at me like I was an idiot, like, really, man, like you missed that. Like, take the shot. I'm like, I'm sorry. But then the next one was just went crazy. Um, saw this doe, shot her down, and uh one up to her, you know, so thankful for her. And I just I like prayed over her her body and everything, and just knowing that it was gonna feed me a little bit, and it was awesome. Never since then it was just like hitting the ground running, but I didn't fully uh get going into hunting until probably 18, 19 years old when uh I met Sarah, and that's when it just just became part of my life.

Processing Deer And Learning Field Dressing

SPEAKER_02 5:50

So now you I mean one I don't really blame you at all, not for sure. And and I know some people are gonna be like, Jesus, and like I love watching just animals and like that. I think about hunting, like there's a lot of things, everything I basically love, even the stuff that I hate, I I love about hunting, but like when you're just sitting there and just you know, not none of these animals know that you're there, it's a whole different meaning of you know relaxation, and not only you just pick up on so many things and you get to cue in on just everything that's around you, and it's really what you what we're meant to be. We're supposed to be we're supposed to be in nature, like you can't get any, you know, it any better than that, and then you know, when you finally did shoot something, you walk up to that deer. Did you get it, or did you know, did you watch somebody get it?

SPEAKER_00 6:46

What would no, I so we took it to a processor, but I will be honest, the first time I actually truly field dressed a deer or an animal in general was this past year. Um, and I'm 35 years old, yeah. So like I've had the luxury of going to a processor every single time, but out here where I live now in Virginia, like there is no processor around, they don't have the hands to help them with it. So I had to learn not rather quickly, I already knew how to do it. Um but I would say last year, the first time it was all so surreal because it was my first bow kill and my buddy Rodney, my best friend, was with me. So when we when I hit this deer, I was like, oh man, oh man, and I just heard him crash. It was a spike, nothing big, people like it was just one of those, like, oh, it's it's gotta go down because I gotta get meat in the freezer. And um, but it was just so awesome having him with me there because I was able to actually go through the process myself, pull out the heart, keep the heart, everything, and it was just awesome, man. But I would say the the first time I saw someone doing field dressing stuff, I was like, what's that smell? Not realizing they hit the stomach, and so it just smelled terrible. I was like, oh, but it is what it is.

SPEAKER_02 8:08

I I think like you so I want to definitely touch on real quick before we get into all the good stuff because I I love you know, first bow kill, you know, doing it yourself. We definitely got to touch on that. So, how long were you after you you know you killed something, got it to the process? Like, what was the time limit on that? Like, how quickly were you getting out of the woods and and back into the butcher?

SPEAKER_00 8:31

So my father-in-law has a four-wheeler, so we were able to hook it up very quickly, drag it down to his truck, load up on the trailer. We're probably like at the processor in about 35 to 40 minutes after the kill. Perfect, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so it was great. And of course, you walk up, what do they do? They just come up, they check the teeth, they check the gap, looking to see if there's any uh chronic waste disease, all that, get the weight, and you're assigned all this logbook. Next thing you know, it's in the that's already in the freezer because the guy's already field dressed it. You're just like, holy crap, that was fast. Yeah, and so different.

SPEAKER_02 9:02

I haven't had that experience yet.

SPEAKER_00 9:04

Yeah, they um they were quick. They had this one guy had like I think there was like 15 deer in the parking lot just getting strung up, and this dude was working so fast, and I was just like, he was like a whiz with a knife. And by the time I was done, I I remember being like the sixth or seventh deer in line, and then next thing you know, it's already in the freezer. And I was like, he's already washed it down, he's done everything. I'm like, oh my gosh, like awesome! But uh now I'm just like curious if I didn't take it to a processor. Is this my is this my deer? Is this the proper amount of meat?

SPEAKER_02 9:38

I don't know about this. A little skeptical. So I I think like for us here in New Jersey, I don't even I don't even know if we have the option to bring a deer with you know without it being uh gutted and everything like that. Like I've never like even thought about it. First of all, it's a lot, you know, where you gotta go track and drag and and do all these things. I think obviously when you're private property and you got the four-wheelers and everything like that, it is definitely way easier, or even if you have a public land that you can access with like a full four-wheeler, something like that. If there's any states that that do allow that to happen, but um, you know, it it's it's a completely different thing. Like for us, it's everything's already gutted out and everything like that. So I mean, I've been doing it for for years, and it's just it's second nature now. I'm still not the fastest at it and the the best at it, especially at night. Like I'm brutal at night. At night, it is it is ridiculous. Um, you know, and I feel like always at night I just get caught on like I'll get stuff out, but then trying to pull them, like, oh wait, no, they're still it's still connected, so you're continuing to like you can't really see your and if you're by yourself too, it's like manning the light and you know, cutting and and pulling, cutting and pulling, and make sure everything's really clean, is and also you know, now throwing in some filming and everything like that. Yeah, it's a huge pain in the butt. But um, I I've grown to really like I think love that part of it. Like, I really use I used to not look forward to it. So when I first started bow hunting by myself, um, you know, I that was always make me like, oh, like I don't want to waste anything, like I don't want to ruin anything, like I want to to be able to harvest as much meat, and I don't want to mess up gutting and and everything like that. A lot of it is I I didn't know what as I didn't know what I know now. Now it's like boom, I'm looking forward to finding that deer. And all right, let's let's just get it going, let's get them, let's get them gutting.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

It's so quick, you're just like right there, you just cut it open, you start going. The next thing you know, you're already on the move with the animal, and you're like, Yeah, oh there's the gut pile, gotta go like it's exactly yeah, but it's so fun. Like, I've I've learned more this past year. I had it, I had I was so blessed this year. I I ended up uh harvesting eight deer. Uh the majority were all does. I yeah, a lot of them were just does, but I was my buddy and I were able to go down to North Carolina and hunt. I hunt here in Virginia as well, and it's just been a blessing to be able to so far live off all the venison that I've harvested this year. Like, I don't think we bought I think we bought two whole chickens this whole year, maybe three, and then a couple of like pork chops in here and there, but nothing too crazy. And it's yeah, but man, the experience and the growth that I had this year was just surreal, and I was very blessed about that.

Bowhunting Origin Story And Early Lessons

SPEAKER_02 12:32

I I I love love to hear that. So this was your first year bow hunting, correct?

SPEAKER_00 12:38

Yes, it was. Well, okay, last year was technically my first, but I didn't do anything, I didn't even get a kill last year. I was skunked.

SPEAKER_02 12:47

First year bow hunting, but this is the main which I think which I think is normal. I think that's like a normal thing to do. I think it's you're you're getting into something completely new, and it listen, bow hunting is challenging, like it is not a easy, it's not an easy step, and that's why I love so much about it. But um you the growth and so really from when you said you really started diving into 1819 to to where you are now, your your rifle hunting and everything like that, and you now you got into this bow. What made you be like, All right, what when when did you realize that you wanted that next step of adventure and adrenaline and just the passion was like, all right, like I'm gonna and then also when did you make the the realization that was happening? And then also, like, what were your first steps once you did buy the bow and and how was that process?

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Well, this is a pretty awesome story, actually. So, my buddy Matt, when we were when I lived in California, um, he was really diving into you know, like listening to like the campaigns and listening to Joe Rogan, and listening to all those other podcasts about bow hunting and stuff. And he had never hunted his entire life. He's like, Oh, I'm gonna take a bow hunting. And I'm like, all right, cool, dude. And he's like, You should do it with me. I was like, you know what, why not? So I bought a PSE, uh, a brute force, and that was in 2020, I believe. Um, and that thing only went up to 60 pounds. So I was like, Oh, this is I had I wasn't able to hunt in California because of where we were. Um, but then I started realizing like I want something more, so I started going to this bow shop called OCR Tree, and man, I walked in, and next thing you know, I'm walking out with my first hoit, and I ended up winning that hoit. It was like by chance. I was like, just went up to this line, they're having a little competition. I just started shooting a little bit, and by this time I've only been shooting for a year, but lo and behold, I'm walking out with the hoit that's right behind me, and that thing has been like ride or die.

SPEAKER_02 14:47

Um love it, love always it. I love a team hoit guy, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:52

And then um, when I got to North or Virginia, that's when I was really able to start diving into hunting with my bow. Um, last year I did a mix just so I can because we were hunting huge open fields, but um so when I got into the woods the first day, the opening day, that's when I took my bow and I was like, all right, I'm gonna try to strictly do bow only. And then I realized how hard it was. I had a a buck come by, a solid eight point, and I'm just I remember he was so in tune with everything that was going on around him. As soon as I lifted a finger, he immediately eyeballed me. And I'm like, How do you see me right now? And I didn't move, I froze, like I just I wanted him to go back down, but he did like that fake down where he's gonna go grab some food, but then pops back up, and I was just I knew what he was doing. And then um, for some reason, he just got skittish and took off. And I was like, How does that happen? And that's when I started realizing I need to use nature around me to cover, I need to use the trees, I need to use uh other timber, and that's when I'm just like okay, and that's when the challenge really started kicking in, and I was like, This is what it's all about because rifle hunting is fun, but it's not not as fun as a bow because you're getting personal with it.

SPEAKER_02 16:06

So oh, yeah, I I agree. It's it's a whole different, it's a whole different avenue of of style of hunting and just what you can get away with rifle or even you know shotgun hunting or something like that versus a compound bow or a traditional is just two completely different things. And I imagine all the people out there that you know shoot the recurve and and everything like that are like man, if you you know wait until you you move to you know move to this and everything like that, like then it's really gonna, which is yeah, which is gonna be you know another fun and challenging situation too, as well. But man, I I think like bow hunting, uh it's it's addicted. Like I have spent like today, I actually just got my second point from for Iowa. So I got two points in Iowa right now. I'm waiting to hear back from my main moose if if I'll draw in Moose uh mainly for Moose. I'm hoping me or somebody in my family draw for for that. I'm bringing the bow um if I do, and then my sub my sub will they will have the the rifle. Um and then like just traveling around and just like doing all different types of hunts. I've cannot wait to get the season, and turkey season just ended here for us. I know I have been nothing but watching deer hunting videos and moose hunting videos. I am so fired up, and it just like ended on the same time to go.

SPEAKER_00 17:38

I know, and I'm sitting here, I was like, Man, my buddy he sent me up the other day. He's like, Man, a hundred days. I was like, I cannot wait. He's like, I know football's around the corner. I was like, Oh, I thought we were talking about hunting, man. Like, literally a hundred days from now, like we just he just started laughing at me. He's like, You're addicted. I was like, Yes, I am, and it's because just you get to be outside, you get to be outdoors, you get to do whatever you want. You just sit there and connect with nature, God, however you spend your time out there. But I just love it, man. It's so fun.

SPEAKER_02 18:06

Uh yep, 100% agree with you. That when when does uh when do you guys start in Virginia? So as Delaware, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Yeah, somewhere between September 7th for North. So I hunt, I'm right on the the border of North Carolina, Virginia. So I start bow season September 7th for North Carolina, and then it's like October 7th for Virginia. So I have a very long season for bow hunting, courtesy of North Carolina being right here. So and where I hunt, it's literally like I go, I literally bounce back and forth between the North Carolina property and the Virginia side. So it's it works out great. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 18:43

No, listen, I I I extended my season going to Delaware now. So I start September 1st. I I'll I'll be in the woods and everything like that hunting. So from September 1st to the second week of February, I'll be hunting pretty hard. But I mean it's thrown in all different animals there, like we get the waterfowl season there, we get bear season and and stuff like that. But uh yeah, I can deer hunt. We can deer hunt, you know, basically in Delaware is a two-hour drive for us, and I think Virginia is eventually on. I think uh I think one of our team guys, Peyton and uh Steve, they've been in Virginia and they've hunted and down in Virginia and everything like that. I'm pretty sure Steve was there for opening weekend last year and everything like that. But Virginia is eventually on the bucket list too. Um, especially because they do everything like that, like that opens earlier. So, you know, eventually, hopefully, with things really work out, you know.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

Yeah, dude.

Seasons And Hunting Across State Lines

SPEAKER_02 19:41

Go from Delaware straight to Virginia, then back up to Jersey and and and all those things. But you know, it it's coming. So where you live, that between the border, what is the environment? What is the habitat kind of like? Um, where where you are?

SPEAKER_00 19:57

So I'm it's more of a rural area, so I lived right on the edge of uh city, but it's as soon as you turn on my neighborhood, farmlands, so it's just open terrain. You could you could literally see not for miles, but like, oh, there's a tree line about 500 meters this way, another tree line over here that's about another 500 meters, and then the woods are just they're not thick, it's just there's not a lot of pine, which is phenomenal because pine trees I don't mind, but when you get that underbrush and you're trying to hunt through that, that's where you're just like this is not fun because then you're cutting, you're trying to climb, and you're just like, I'm done with it. Um, because parts of North Carolina are like that, but man, the it is so open here. Like I have bald eagles that live in my tree in my backyard, uh, come pretty cool, usually like the fall time, and yeah, which is really cool to see. And then uh what's what I would say is probably the most amazing thing is just seeing the amount of deer that there are here because you would you would think you they'd be far scarce because the royal area, a lot of hunters and stuff. No, you you turn a corner and your your lights light up the field, and you're looking at like a hundred deer, you're like, Holy crap, they're everywhere. Jesus, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:11

So it's so you guys have a high hunting pressure, so you guys have a lot of hunters, but also just a lot of deer, and you know, it sounds like a decent amount of of land that you guys can hunt on to as well.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Yeah, well, my my buddy Rodney that I was talking about earlier, he's closing on a house here shortly, and uh he just picked up about 15 acres of land. So next to it is another 150 acres of land, and we're gonna be yeah, we're gonna be able to hunt it. So, and it's he and I are like our boys are gonna be out there in the woods with us. This is gonna be awesome. He's already, yeah, we've already made plans, man. And and we're there's gonna be no pressure, but just from he and I. So that's what makes it even better.

SPEAKER_02 21:53

Yeah, that is oh gosh, getting me getting me itching to can't wait to hear, you know, the story. And everything like that from you uh in the upcoming upcoming year. Um, so when you go to so when you cross over the border to go to North Carolina, you know, what is kind of like do you see much of a big difference in like what it is like to hunt in North Carolina versus the and the deer and everything like that, or is it still close enough where it's kind of kind of remotely the same?

SPEAKER_00 22:22

It's relatively the same. Um, it's really cool going from one edge of the property to the other and seeing your target buck that you're going after, and you're like, okay, now I know he's in this area and I know he's in that area, and it's just it's nice to be able to pinpoint him going back and forth from state to state. Um, but the tricky part is you know how states are really skittish about you bringing an animal from one side to the other? Yeah, that's that's the hard part. You're like, Well, I just I watched him, I shot him on Virginia's side, and he came to North Carolina's whoa, he died in North Carolina side, so it's like all right, whatever. So it's nice being able to do everything yourself, processing it and getting all the meat in the cooler, and then just rushing home and getting it in the freezer. So I would say that is probably the the sticking point when it comes to like the game boarding in that in the area.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

So that's kind of that's nuts. Like, well, that is just absolutely just like I couldn't even imagine, like, but it'd be that would be pretty cool too to be able to like it's literally boom one and and the other. Yeah, do you have to? So obviously, do you have to get both both tags and everything? Like, yeah, so yeah, yeah. Fortunately, I I guess it's fortunately, unfortunately, whichever way you want it, you do have to get both both tags and everything like that. So, say you know you you shoot a deer on Virginia's side and it ends up like you tag that because it was shot on Virginia's side. Do you tag that under Virginia's tag? Like, how does that kind of work?

SPEAKER_00 23:53

So I tag it where it where it dies pretty much where it dies in the yeah. So if it I remember one year, this was actually the last year, shot this buck, it ran to Virginia side, ran back onto North Carolina. So I was I was hunting the border, like I was on the line, like I was straddling it, and I was just watching it zigzag, and then he finally just killed over. And like I literally looked down at my GPS, I'm like, this dude is literally in both both states right now. His head is in North Carolina, his head, his bottom is in Virginia, like so I was like, I'm just gonna tag him with with uh North Carolina because I had two tags still left for Buck, Virginia. I was tagged out for Buck, and so I was just like, Ah, whatever, I'll just do this here. So it was just like kind of funny how it played out, and I was like, That's that's funny. But I I called up Taylor, the game warden, and I told him, like, hey, yo, this is what happened. He's like, bro, that's wild.

SPEAKER_02 24:48

So he actually came out. What are the chances? Like, what are the literal chances of of that even happening?

SPEAKER_00 24:56

Dude, one in a billion, I'll tell you that.

SPEAKER_02 24:58

Like, you should have gone to the lottery right after.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

Everyone has told me that. Everyone has told me, I was like, you know, but with my luck, I would spend like the five dollars on the ticket and I'd be owe money. Like, that's my lie sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 25:11

Um, so when when you when you first decide found out that you're gonna be hunting on a property that would have both, like, what was it a pain in the butt? Like, did you have to call both wards? Like, did you have to reach out to Virginia's uh wardens and also North Carolina's and kind of like make sure that everything was hey, like this is what's gonna be happening. I'm hunting this property. Like, how what was that kind of like just going back and forth between two? And I'll tell you, at least in New Jersey, our hunting digest is confusing as hell. I couldn't imagine having to pay attention to another hunting digest while I'm hunting one other property. It like kind of go over it what what that's like.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

So I hung on a military installation being active duty, so that's very lucky in my case. Um, the game warning is for the North Carolina side and the Virginia side, so that works out great in our favor.

SPEAKER_02 26:08

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

And then I built like a personal relationship with him, and he's such a great guy. He's he's all about you know making sure people are picking up the trash. He he tries the community together, and where we all just come together, have like break bread and everything, and so that's really fun to do that. And then um, but the biggest worry that I had was how do the tags work? Well, North Carolina is two and four, and then Virginia is two and four, so it works out, and I was like, Oh, well, that's easy, yeah. So I was like, sweet. Um, and then of course, Virginia has earn a buck. So if you tag out on two bucks, you could technically earn a buck through somewhere or another. I don't know how that works yet, but I'm looking into that this year because I'm chasing this beast of a buck this year, like last year. His body, he was at least 210 on the hoof, and I'm like, that's my target buck. Yeah, so I hope I get him, but if not, I mean, I'll continue chasing him. It's I can't wait to write that story out. I have notes on it and everything.

Habitat Differences And Border Tag Rules

SPEAKER_02 27:04

So, oh man, yeah. No, I'm definitely looking forward to that one when when you post it up. Um, so why why don't we for for a little bit get into you know the page, and this is something that you said you you've wanted to do, and everything like incredible idea. I mean, I absolutely just in love with just the idea and what you do here. Where did the idea like have you always done stuff where excuse me, where you're you're writing and everything like that? Or did this just one day like this is it? Well, how how did this kind of come about?

SPEAKER_00 27:38

Yeah, so being in the military, I have to do a lot of writing, uh, just for like after action reports, you know, people getting put up on meritorious boards to get promoted and whatnot. So I have to do like I have to do a lot of fluff with the with these uh writings and everything. But I've noticed that a lot of hunting digest reading material uh magazines have kind of gotten away from just the roots of what reading was all about when it came to hunting, and a lot of it is now you know video, which is awesome. But I'm kind of like old school, and I was like sitting there thinking, I was like, Man, there's really no in-dailed written out hunts anymore. And so, unless if you go to like Eastman's and read through there, um but I was just sitting there talking to my wife about it one day, and she's like, Why don't you start a page? And I was like, you know what? Why not? So I was sitting there and I was like thinking of a name, and then uh one of my sons he was screaming something, and I'd noticed that it was echoing off the wall really loud, and I was like, that's when it like kind of hit me, and I was like, I got it, echoes of the hunt. And uh ever since then, it took me about five months to really start this because I had to get through hunting season and I had to get through some other stuff, and then finally I sat down, I was like, Okay, I'm gonna start this. I'm going to write my first story, and I'm just gonna see how it goes. It started off slow, typical, like that's how it is, and then by chance, I messaged Joe, the owner and founder of Osseo, and I said, Hey man, I would like to write a story on one of your deer if you got a minute, and he was like, Yeah, sure, what do you need? And I told him, I was like, if you could just send me like three to five photos and like a quick summary of your hunt, I would love to rewrite it and and post it. Well, I did, and that really took off, and then raised a hunt. They wanted me to do a story for them, so I did a story for them, but I'm really focused on osseo because a lot of the guys have very similar stories to mine that I just like to share. So it's it's kind of been like a roller coaster of emotions. Um, but that's kind of like how it came about. My wife really encouraged me to just start it, she's been my rock and she's very supportive of it, and I can't appreciate her enough.

Why He Started Echoes Of The Hunt

SPEAKER_02 30:03

Yeah, I mean, just absolutely I mean, I'm going through the page right now, too, as just absolutely incredible stuff. But it does like everything starts out slow and then, but it just takes that one time where once it catches, it it just catches. And I mean, yeah, what you've done so far is just like I I remember when I I can't remember how you know once I found it and it popped up, and I you know, everything like that. I was like, Oh, I was like, what is what is this? And I I think it was right in the beginning. I was like, all right, like cool, cool, cool. And then you know, reading the stuff, and it and it's right, like everything I see now is video, video, video. Yeah, like we do everything we do, we we do video and then we do audio, like we don't do really much writing, and I've always yeah been interested in like it's still nice to read stuff. Like, I'm a big book guy, I read a lot of books. Um but being on social media, everything I see is video, so like it was and you have 15 seconds to catch somebody's attention because after that's just crazy, tick tock is real, which is true. Like, I've and it's tough because I'll I'll make a video and it will be between like say 30 and 60 seconds, and I'm like, it's too long, and that's crazy to say that it's too long, and it's it's known because my best videos are usually shorter, and they do just so much better. And it's like, Well, what the hell do I like? If I cut everything out, then it's literally just gonna be like uh I don't want to just get right to the point. I like the build up, I like watching videos and and movies and T and books where it's all about the build-up, and that's what these stories are. It's literally a build-up, and what you do is you you drop the pre-like kind of like a little teaser, you're building up, and then you get into the story. And it's if you read the story, it's building the titles, everything like that catches your your attention. But if you do video and have like the video, so it has to be like short, but at least you have the the written stuff down too as well, and it's yeah, social media has a lot of good stuff. That is one thing that has completely screwed everyone's attention spans, is no one watches anything fully, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:20

And it's it's kind of a shame. And we do a really good job at reading to our children every night, and I'm very thankful for that because they just sit there and they just listen and they want to learn, they're eager. And but when I just sit behind my computer and I just start typing away, it's just like I definitely do not type how I how I speak. I sit there, I literally take my time and I was like, okay, if I was in the woods, if I was this person, what exactly am I feeling? What does it smell like? What does the area look like around me? And I just I just start, you know, like putting notes to the side. Um, there are even times where I'm just sitting at a restaurant and a thought comes to mind, I'll just start writing on a napkin or I'll write on my pant leg because I don't have anything to write with. And then my wife's just like, use your phone, bonehead. I'm like, Oh, yeah, that's right. I'm just like, duh. But uh yeah, I've I've run a pair of pants or two just from writing notes on them. I'm like, what am I doing? Um that's military stuff that I've always done, and it just correlates over to my civilian life.

SPEAKER_02 33:25

Yeah, you guys are always writing, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:28

It it but it's true. Like, if if I'm if I take a video and I break it down to about 14 seconds is my max, I'm gonna catch someone's attention because I remember one time I had like a 30-second video, and my wife just looked at me, she's like, I'm out of it already. This is boring. Um you you're taking too long to get to the climax. And I was like, All right, and that's when I started focusing on like okay, quick sippets, teaser, and then the story later on down the road. So that's that's kind of like how I like to do it.

SPEAKER_02 33:57

Yeah, I know. I I like I said, I love it now. How like once it started, what is it like? I imagine you got backed up on stories, so how do you balance, you know, work life, family life, and also having time to because you're what at a you're at a post or a story that seems like a day right now. So, like, yeah, how do you balance it all? What what's that kind of like? Uh, because we got a lot of people out there that listen and follow in that they always are interested in started pages, and that's always my biggest question. Like people, how do I balance you know, life and everything like that? So, kind of you know, how how do you find the balance?

SPEAKER_00 34:34

Well, yeah, that's actually an awesome question. So it started off where it took me a while to really balance it out. But when I'm at work, we end up working like 60 to 70 hours a week, depending on what type of rotation we have going on when it comes to having I'm at a schoolhouse, so I have students coming in and students going out, but I'm in a position now where I can kind of just like sit back and watch the instructors take it. But while I'm doing that, that's where I'm able to really chime in, get on my on the notes on my phone and start plugging away at some stuff, and then I have it already connected to my computer. So when I pop up my computer, it's all my notes are right there. I don't have to send it through email or anything. So that's I would say that's probably the how I'm able to balance it's just where I am right now in my career because I'm on the back end of it, so it's starting to slow down drastically. So I I do it when I'm not as busy around my children, like if I'm just sitting there watching them run around real quick, I'll that's when I usually post. Like, oh yeah, I should probably post this, and it doesn't take any time at all. It's just a couple clicks, a couple tags, and send it out. Um, but yeah, it's it's been very easy to balance because of my current position.

SPEAKER_02 35:48

Yep, yep, got that. That makes that makes sense. Um, the titles, and it's always the I love titles. I think titles is one of the most important things, especially like when I'm talking about like in podcasting and everything like that. Where do you come up with the titles? And has there been so far a story that you had where it's kind of like stumped you?

Writing Process Titles And Attention Spans

SPEAKER_00 36:08

Um, so I will use some uh people's titles that they send me because it just fits the narrative. Okay, there is one story. Um, I gotta pull it up. That just I was sitting there and I was like, why can I not come up with this? I've had a I actually had a writer's block on this one, um, and it was driving me nuts. I just couldn't figure out for the life of me. It was actually very recent, too. Um Echoes in the Stillness. That story, man, I love that story. That was such a fun read. Um, after I finished it, but yeah, that one, I don't know why I just could not come up with a title at all. And ask my wife, like, what do you think I should do for a title? And she's just like, I don't know, just sit there and be still about it and just think about it, and I'll just like boom. Yeah, and then it just it like hits, but man, that that story, I was probably up till about two in the morning, two or three in the morning, and I had to be at work at five, and I'm just like just stumped, couldn't do it.

SPEAKER_02 37:13

What do I do? Yeah, well, what do I do? Like, how yeah, it it gets like that. It it definitely does. It's a but once you get it, it's like, all right. Oh, yeah, like that was easy, like duh.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

Yeah, like I was on the way to uh to the gym that morning, and it it was starting like I was just thinking about it, and then but post-workout, that's when it started. Like, I think I got through that mental fatigue, was able to actually get going and just started writing in my uh little notebook in my car. I should have used my phone because then I had to translate it later uh or transfer it over to the computer later. But like when I just see a pen and paper and it's right there fresh, I'm not gonna take out my phone, and then I'm gonna be like, wait, what else was I just thinking about? So I was just going. Um was a little late to work, got a little talking to about it, but I didn't really care. I was like, no one shows up on time here anyway, so whatever. But yeah, Echoes of the Stillness was definitely the the one that I had a a big writer's block with, but it turned out to be an amazing story.

SPEAKER_02 38:13

Now, do you do you have a story? Because uh, and this is yet again, I I'm gonna understand a hundred percent. I imagine I have an idea what you're gonna say because people always oh, what's your favorite episode that that I do in it? So everyone's different, but do you have a story that one either really stuck out to you, or like the minute you read it, you're like, Holy shit, like this is like way better than I thought like it was it was going to be.

SPEAKER_00 38:39

Dude, it's every story sticks out to me, and I can't say there's one or the other, but the ones that really stick out to me are when it's the fathers and sons, the daughters and sons, or sorry, the the mothers and sons, and just the family ones. Um, I'm writing one right now that is coming out in I want to say it's July. Um I it's a father and son, they went turkey hunting, and I cannot wait for that one to come out, but that one's sticking out to me because my son, my sons are almost to that age, and it's just like oh, I can't wait to write their story for them and present it to them later in life, or they just are so thankful for it and just over the moon about it, and it's just so they can look back and just remember in detail, and that's I think those are the stories that stick out most for me, or are definitely the the ones with the kids, um, just because of my own children. Like I took my my oldest hunting for the first time this year, knew I wasn't gonna see anything, but it was the experience that I got with him. Just I remember walking up our trail cam, and I'm just like this, and he's got his little bow and arrow, and he's got the oversized orange on, and he's just like, All right, so this is hunting. We get into the blind and he can't see over the blind, so I put him in my lap, and he goes, Dad, look at deer. I'm like, Yeah, no, there's not, but it's just it was just like the innocence of it. The oh man, like just being with him in that setting was just so honorable and just so amazing, and I loved every second of it. But I'll never forget the face he made when we were walking out. He walked right into the spider web and he just goes, he like starts yelling like someone did it to him, and I'm just laughing. And I know there's another hunter over there, and I can see him just shaking his head, and I'm just like, I'm sorry, dude.

SPEAKER_02 40:33

Like, I'm bad. He he's getting the like he walking into the spider web might be one of the worst that like I hate that shit right there. Oh my god, when you're early in the season, so I don't blame him at all, and it's so much better that he could just like makes it seem like somebody pushed him into a web or someone draped a web over him or something like that. It's like I don't want to look like I just did this by myself. Like, I'm just you know, I but I don't blame him. He probably handles it better than me because there's used to be times where I would start freaking out.

SPEAKER_00 41:05

So my hands going out, I'm just like trying to get it off of me.

SPEAKER_02 41:09

Like, oh yeah, I've been there multiple times this past year. I once had a uh spider, it was I think it was opening, it was somewhere around. If it wasn't opening day, it was like within the first couple days, and it was early morning, and the sun just like you know came up, and it was still you know, a little dark and everything like that. And I saw this jumping spider on the literally a on the tree right next to me, or just on a branch, and I'm just staring at it, and all of a sudden it jumps and leaps and hits me right in the forehead.

SPEAKER_00 41:45

You're just like really that's just I'm like, what?

SPEAKER_02 41:47

I was like, what the hell are the odds of like why is the spider just thinking, hmm, let me just jump on this thing that keeps moving in it, you know, it's definitely not a tree or anything like that.

SPEAKER_00 42:00

A thousand times bigger than I am, yeah.

Teaching New Bowhunters And Gear Choices

SPEAKER_02 42:02

Right? Just pop right out right on my phone. I'll never because it was like when it jumped, it was like it was in slow-mo, and you just see watching it, and you just watch it, and it just like literally just smack me right in the head. But um, you know, and that's the other thing, like the stories are great, and you know, that's something I'm looking forward to when you know, when I have my own kids and everything like that, and just taking other people out to to hunt, even if it even if it's somebody who doesn't have kids or anything like that, like embracing what we do with people who've never done it before, who are new to it, who want to try it, who are you know younger, older, doesn't matter. That is like that right there is so much fun, and I think oh I know it means more to I would say almost every hunter that I've ever met or talked to, getting somebody else on deer or their first deer or their first experience means so much more to them than like their own personal goals.

SPEAKER_00 42:58

Oh, dude, today, yeah, my buddy Rob came over, he lives down the street, and he and I met a couple months ago. Um, but he's always talking about how he's been interested in bow hunting, and I don't believe he's ever hunted a day in his life. And the first thing he wants to do is bow hunt, and I'm like, dude, yes. So I take him to Oceans East literally this past week. We pick up a bow, he got a prime. Um can't remember, I know it's a prime, I can't remember the name of the bow, but today he is in my backyard and I'm just trying to get him sighted in. And of course, like the it's only up to 40 pounds, not that heavy. He's he's still trying to get the hang of it, but he is over the moon, and he is just having a blast with it. It takes me back to when I pick first picked up a bow, and that's what I love about most of it. It's just like it takes it's like a blast of the past, and you're just like, This is awesome.

SPEAKER_02 43:50

Yeah, and I'm I'm doing it with my fiance right now. Oh, dude, that's awesome. She's oh that girl can shoot. She's a she's gonna be a killer, although once. Hopefully she will be a killer. I'm not pushing this, has been in years in the making, but like I know what like going through all the steps all over again. And yeah, you know what? I even I for your buddy, you 100% like I remember I think I was only on like 40 pounds too when I when I first started everything like that. And it's such a if you don't do it, it's such an awkward yeah thing. And it's actually really unnatural, especially like you know, I've listened to a bunch of guys when you when you're releasing everything like that, your body's just staying here. It's not like you're pulling back and then letting back down, like you just pull and then that's it, where it it's just it, it's it's just not too natural. And it's something that you know I've learned is there's people out there that yes, they don't they don't work out and they don't keep, but for me, bow hunting, the type of bow hunting that I do and the style that I do, like I made very clear early early-ish into my my hunting career that like I had to work out and I had to stay in shape because it is an awkward situation, and you know, the big thing is the shrugging of the shoulders, like people just natural when they're pleased, want to shrug their shoulders instead of keeping their their shoulder blades down and everything like that, and you know it's it's yeah, it's just not not a natural 40 pounds is perfect, like that's the perfect practice, and it also doesn't wear and tear, it's a lot of wear and tear on our shoulders. Oh, yeah, like that.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

And I could tell like he was getting a little fatigued after a while, and I was like, let's just take a moment, just relax for a minute, get loose. But it was just so amazing to watch because like he's just trying to figure out where his anchor point is, and I noticed that like you know how like a lot of guys like death grip the bow when they're pulled back. I'll just like tell them, like, just relax your hand, just let it hang there. I know it sounds awkward, but when you pull back, you want all that pressure right there in the palm of your hand, you don't want it anywhere else, so you don't want to be death gripping it because then you're gonna be shaking, you're gonna be torquing the bow a different way. And he was sitting there just listening and taking it all in, soaking it in like a sponge. So when by the time he was out the door heading home tonight, he was working it, he was hitting the target. Yes, we were only 10 yards in, but we're also trying to get his his bow sighted in perfectly to start off at 10, 15 to 20. And then I threw on one of my old sights for him because we maxed out his other site because it I don't know what was up with it. Um, so I just gave him a site to say, like, here, use this, this would be better. There's five pins for you. Like now he's able to actually use it up to 50 yards or 60 yards or whatever, instead of getting a slider, like so. He's he's very intrigued about the whole process, and it's fun watching him. Like, I'm I'm excited for him.

SPEAKER_02 46:43

So, yeah, I I got a guy actually, our show's producer, he was supposed to make it today, but his uh his girlfriend scheduled something, so he's like, Yeah, I'm pretty mad that I couldn't make it, but it'll be his first year, and I got I got a crossbow here. He was like, Oh, like, should I buy a bow? I was like, No, I was like, We're gonna get your apprentice license, we're gonna find that I want to make sure that this is really what you want to do. Then you can get the bow and everything like that. But there's no listen, first year, I always let people know you're first new to hunting, trying to get into hunting. I have no issues with the crossbow, no issue, right? I not the bit best cross. I hate using people always like, why don't you use a crossbow every once in a while? Why don't you shoot with a gun? Like, I really try not to, yeah, because I love bow hunting and I'm obsessed with just like bow hunting. Like, I killed my bear back behind me with the gun. Never really want to kill one again with the adrenaline rushes isn't the same.

SPEAKER_00 47:41

No, um, when or if it's past like 300 yards, like this one doe I I killed this year, I think she was at 350 plus. Smacked her, and I thought I missed because I was an idiot, and I lifted my head off of my stock and and reloaded that way instead of keeping my head down and reloading, yeah. And my bolt game was so bad at that moment, but I then I see her like trot off. I'm like, there's no way I missed. So I get down and I I go over to where I believed I shot her, and I just kept looking. I saw all the dirt kicked up, and then I found blood, and I was like, Oh, yes. When I got to her, it was a perfect hit. Like she ran 20 yards into the woods, but it sucked because it was downhill and the slope was pretty slope-ish. And I was like, This is not good. So dragging her out was just yeah, I can believe it. I was like, This sucks. There's I have a video of myself just like oh, this is this is not it.

SPEAKER_02 48:35

So there it's it's it's just a different adrenaline rush, and I I um and uh yet again, I got I got the 306 in there, I got you know the slug gun in there, you know. I think each weapon has its time where I will a hundred percent use it, but from September till the rut and a little bit, I am a strictly bow hunter, like that's all I'll do. Then you get into waterfowl. I will have a goal to shoot a a bird eventually with with the uh with the good old bow. I would like to kill a uh with the bow and everything like that at some point. But two different adrenaline rushes now. Obviously, you go to like Alaska or something like that, and you're hunting, you know, caribou or something, yeah. Or like, yeah, like you, and I've seen the caribou hunts, like I you know, I love watching stuff like that. Like, yeah, to kill one with a bow would be almost, and I'm not spending all that goddamn money, and not you know what I mean, yeah, and not getting a shot, and you're like, you go out there, it's like 10 days, and you're like, Well, just drop 10 grand for nothing, yeah, all right.

SPEAKER_00 49:39

But then people also gotta realize though, you didn't just drop 10 grand for nothing, like you you went out there and you got the experience, you got to see what people don't get to see every day, and you get to spend time with yourself and nature. That's yeah, you spent 10 grand, but like in the end, it is so self-rewarding, and you're like kind of self-soothing a little bit, just like decompression, being in the woods, and it's just like just I love deer, I love being in the woods. I would be hot animal and be happy.

SPEAKER_02 50:10

I would be a hundred percent happy, I would just need to see an animal. I think that's a success to me. But yeah, the fiance would not be because she her words would be so you spend all this money and all this time away from us, and you didn't even kill anything, yeah. Well, I would have you I would be like, Well, I saw a bunch of I saw a bunch of caribou or moose or something like that. And you're gonna get a shot off. I brought you uh a feather, I brought you the souvenir, I brought you a shot glass. Don't be mad at me. I booked I booked another hunt for two in two years.

SPEAKER_00 50:49

Like you went to Alaska and brought back this shot glass. This is so expensive. You better like it.

SPEAKER_02 50:57

Here, here's your ten thousand dollar shot glass. Yes, you're welcome. I love you. Nothing else says I love you more than a ten thousand dollar shot glass.

Big Game Dreams Canada Talk And Bears

SPEAKER_00 51:06

Yeah, seriously. But I I when I went to Alaska in 2009, I didn't go on a hunt, I went with uh world changers and we ran into a moose. And I will tell you what, I have never been so petrified in my life. I ran up a tree. Yeah, this thing was 20 yards and closing, like just walking, and I was like, That is a moose, and this thing was so wise. First time I ever saw a moose, it probably wasn't even a big one, but to me, it was a monster, and I was like, I need to get up in this tree. So I climbed this tree with my buddy Eric, and we're just looking down at the sand, he just walks right underneath us, and I was like, I can't believe that just happened. That could have been really bad, but it was such a great experience, so but yeah, no, I'm so like I remember taking my fiance to see her first moose and everything.

SPEAKER_02 51:50

Like, you know, we have a lake house up in and I've grew up uh camping in in Maine and everything like that, so like I'm so used to seeing them. But to see an Alaskan moose, like I've seen Maine moose and they're big, yeah, but to see like an Alaskan moose that would be like it's like our New Jersey deer, and us going to Iowa or Muley or Kansas or Iowa or like a state like that, like it's like oh, because I'll tell you, Maine deer are huge. At least all the ones that I've seen, I've seen some does that rival the size of some of our bucks, and I'm I have a I have a story that I'm about to write, and this girl killed this buck that was I believe she says 267 field dressed, and I was like, that is a big, big animal.

SPEAKER_00 52:47

And she sent me the pictures, I'm gonna find her real quick and show you. But she just sat next to this thing, and this animal just made her look like this big, it was unreal.

SPEAKER_02 53:00

Yeah, I hope it was private property. I hope they didn't have to drag it out. I'd be calling everybody if the I shot a deer that big on public, and I mind you, like one of our team guys killed back to back ear. Holy shin that crazy, Jesus Christ. I know that looks the body of like a moose, like that, yeah, so big Canadian whitetail.

SPEAKER_00 53:26

Ah, yeah, yeah. Now, if that was here in Virginia, I would be like, okay, first off, why did you kill it? I would have made let him breed forever out here, but that thing is a monster. I couldn't imagine trying to drag that thing out.

SPEAKER_02 53:44

That that's that's a place, Canada. I will I will say, where when we talk about white-tailed deer, everyone says Iowa, Iowa, like the Midwest. Yeah, but Jesus Christ, the deer in Canada are absolute monsters.

SPEAKER_00 54:01

Yeah, and the and the few stories I've had are from Canadian Bucks, and they are just absolutely huge. Can only imagine.

SPEAKER_02 54:11

Anyone out there, I'm gonna have to put this on a post. Um, you know, when it comes out, but anyone out there, why does no one ever mention Canada really for deer hunting? Like it's one thing, like whenever you hear white-tailed deer hunting, you always say which is it's great, like Midwest. I I but like there's some big, big monsters out in British Columbia and like everything like that, and you know, yeah, you can bear hunt, you can do. I wonder if it is like travel, you know, international, everything. I wonder, I wonder if that's what kind of hesitates people, you know. I mean, you get it's a lot easier to go to the Midwest, you know, you don't have to fly in or whatever, cross a border. I wonder, I wonder if that's like the big reason because even all these all these guys that we follow on YouTube, I imagine everything like that, you know, they all stay in America. None of them go, you know, to to Canada and everything like that. You would have to have like it's obviously the big hunting shows that were on the TV and sportsmanship, like they do, but like none of I would say the you the big YouTube series guys like you know, um the hunting public, Bo Hunter Die, or like any of those guys. Like, I've never seen them go to Canada and and and do something like that.

SPEAKER_00 55:28

Yeah, I it's usually just like big name individuals that I see do that. Um, but I believe there has something to do with certain laws that have to do with you know going over the border, um, and then the other ones has to do with you know you're taking a weapon across the border. Yeah, so that's the the biggest thing, I believe, is what's the holdup for a lot of people. But of course, the travel, how much it costs, that's just unbelievable. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:54

Yeah, it's it's it's not easy. I mean, I I would I'm definitely interested. I have a venture I want to go to Canada, and I have come close to pulling the trigger a few times. Um, but definitely go hunt some bears out in out in Canada and everything like that. Um, bear hunting is one of our favorite things to do. Yet again, everyone who listens to our both our shows, The Guardian Stay Outdoors on Podcast, and now this show are probably rolling their eyes because like how much we mention bear hunting and everything like that. But Canada is definitely and like maybe like do a spring bear hunt or something like that, like a destination that like I need to do at least once.

SPEAKER_00 56:29

Yeah, I've I hunted a bear last year, black bear. Um, it's unfortunate though, the way what happened this past uh I think it was last week. So there's this well-known black bear that everyone tries to go after. He is huge. When I mean huge, he is the size of a Volkswagen Beetle, and um, but he got hit by a car this past week and it killed him. And that thing was a unit. And yeah, like when I when I captured him on camera two years ago, I was like, I'm gonna take that there. I've had him 15 yards from me two years ago, and I just could not get the angle. I always had his backside to me. I'm like, just turn, just turn, just just give me a little sliver. But he ended up just staying with his back to me and just kept walking straight. And I'm like, You've gotta be kidding me. But man, this guy, like, I'll have I'll have to send it to you on um Instagram or something. But when we found out, like, I remember I was just driving to work and I see this what I thought was a turnedover trash can from the distance, and as I'm getting closer, I'm like, is that a car in a ditch? No, it was the black bear. I was like, Oh my gosh, I get to work and everyone's talking about it. And I was like, I can't believe he got hit by a car. And it was like the city was in mourning because of how that this black bear was killed by a car.

SPEAKER_02 57:49

Uh I it's tough. Like, I hate when especially like big like animals like that, like they deserve to be if they're going, if they're not gonna die naturally, yeah, I would like them to be harvested, you know. I don't want it to, I don't want it to be hit by a car like that sucks. And to to kill a big mature black bear like that with the vehicle, yeah, it's that car must tape.

SPEAKER_00 58:19

Yeah, oh, it totaled the car. Um they they found a thread on Facebook, and the people are like, Yeah, that was our car. They put a picture and everything, and this thing was totaled, and it was just unfortunate. Um, but no one was hurt, which was good.

SPEAKER_02 58:34

Thank god.

SPEAKER_00 58:35

Um, yeah, it was just unfortunate that the bear was killed.

SPEAKER_02 58:39

And and that's pretty lucky, I would say, that no one was because of the sheer size of of the bear. Like, you never know. I wonder if it's because they're lower to the ground. Like, I know when people hit like moose and stuff like that, like the big part is their legs are so high up, so when that you hit them, they kind of go straight into the windshield and and everything like that, and can absolutely so like I imagine because bears are lower to the ground and everything like that. That was the the saving saving grace and and things like that. Because yeah, hitting I I I've seen them up close and personal, you know. We've yeah, shot a couple over over the years and everything like that, and it's an animal that like and I can't even imagine what a grizzly would be like.

SPEAKER_00 59:23

Oh, dude, that video that guy yeah, that shoots the revolver at that grizzly that's coming down on him. I'm like, I I would have had the fastest draw in the west. Like that thing was hauling towards that guy. Like, that hits me every time.

SPEAKER_02 59:39

After the whole situation, I would probably would have like, yeah, I need a new pants and everything like that.

Ethics Pushback And Closing Invitation

SPEAKER_00 59:45

Absolutely. But it's really it's but yeah, it was a shame to see that bear killed that way. And um, and and this past year it was like a bunch of firsts for me. Uh, I I shot a doe and I hit her low, and the arrow went out the other side, but it like kicked up, so I'm I'm guessing it rode the rib cage. Um, and the knock, the aluminum, was still in her body, but she took off running, blood was everywhere, and I was like, good, good blood. I watched her, I assumed it was a liver shock, so it was a little farther forward and a little low, but I was like, uh um, I saw her lay down and I assumed that was it. So I waited another 15 minutes, went up to her, or tried to walk up to her, she took off running, and I'm like, what is going on here? I tracked her for four hours in the woods and could not find her, and I was beating myself up, and I was like, I can't believe I missed, I can't believe I messed that up, and I felt terrible that she was suffering. But then two weeks later, this just goes to show how resilient these animals are. She shows up on one of my cameras, and I'm like, There she is, she's alive and well. And I was like, Thank God. So it was eating me alive for a while. And um, I actually had a couple buddies go out that night in the woods because I just had just got home. I told them I lost it. Uh, they went out and tried to find her, they ended up finding her, but she picked up and ran again, and she was still bleeding a little bit, so I was just like, That's wild. And I'm just glad she she was out there kicking still.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:12

So, yeah, they're they're super, super resilient. I mean, today I watched a video of a guy shooting shooting a doe with the 50 cal. And it was the craziest. Like, first of all, I couldn't believe it. I was like, I thought that was too much. I was like, this is fucking oh yeah, but but then actually, like, he shot it and the thing ran. And I was like, that would never happen to a human, like, never in a million years. But the thing ran, it didn't run far, but it ran. If I find the video, I'll I'll send it to you and everything. It was running dead for sure. It it this thing ran and the the blood trail and everything like that. Like, at the end of the day, like it's still like yeah, I don't believe in that. Like, that's yeah, that's OP and just for clout and just for yeah, clicks and everything. Like, like, yeah, no, I don't that's not that's not cool. And actually, I think that gives us more of a bad rep than than everything. If somebody anti-hunters or whoever is against it sees that shit.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:13

Like, oh, I've I've turned down a couple of uh stories that people have like done some outlandish stuff towards animals. I'm like, no, I'm not gonna write write that stuff. Really appreciate it, yeah. Like, um, I'm not gonna say who, I'm not gonna get into the leads of it, but like this this one guy was literally running dogs and just like tearing this animal apart. And I'm like, I'm not you just stood there, and he's like, Yeah, I was like, I'm not. I I appreciate it. That's your top style of hunting, but I'm not gonna that's suffering towards that animal. I'm not gonna write about that.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:47

Hunting with dogs, and you know, I don't want to say too because I I'm not experienced enough in it. I I'm somebody who believes anything legal, if it's legal in your state, I'm all for it. I may not be the biggest fan of it, and I will never say that I will never try it. So, like if I do a mountain lion hunt, like I may want to die. Yeah, like I I may, you know, I've I've always I would want to experience stuff like you hear about you know down south of where you know getting closer to to your neck of the woods, like the the hound hunting with with black bears and everything, everything like that. Like, would I try it? I'd probably try it once. Would I do I think I would really like it? No. But then I have another opinion, like the dogs with with hogs. Like, I'm a huge fan of that. Like, I I do love love that, and I also love how a lot of hunters will get in there with a knife too, and just try to, and it's a connection, and yet again, that's what a lot of people tell me. You you guys have a connect the dogs, and it's this one big connection. So I'm not gonna I can't judge it really before I do it, but it's never been something that it's like that's what I want to do. I would try it. I I may not fully believe in it, but I would I'm gonna let hopefully my experience be able to do it like at least once or twice. That will be what really gets, but I don't want to see, yeah, I don't want to see you know the dogs just tearing into something like I'm gonna go finish, I'm gonna go finish it off, go put it out of its misery. The dogs did their job. Now it's time for us as hunters to to do our job.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:29

Yeah, that's I'm all for if you want to hunt with hounds, I'm all for it, especially if it's legal. Like, I mean, I I poke fun at one of my marines for that all the time, but that's just how it is. Like it's a style of hunting that I'm not used to and I don't understand. But when it comes to someone just standing over a dog, a couple dogs tearing apart another animal, and you're not doing anything, that's that's what gets me. It's like, uh, that's not really hunting. It's it's like while um African wild dogs watching them tear apart their prey is like that's metal.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:02

Everything in Africa is just untaking in a whole different like realm, and like that's something that we'll we'll definitely talk because I definitely got to get you back on another time. We're doing actually a round table segment. If you're available, I'd I'd definitely love to. I think it's gonna be next Monday, whole bunch of guys and everything like that. Because this these are topics that we would be talking about, but like, yeah, hunting Africa and animals in Africa, everything in Africa is just on a whole completely different style. Africa, Australia, just different, different everything in Australia will kill you.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:35

Yes, everything, everything in Australia is poisonous. Like, why would I want to go to Australia?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:40

Literally, literally, everything's big and kill you, even the simplest, smallest, non threatening thing that you think can yeah kill you without a without a hesitation. But um, I got I got two more for kind of for you, uh, just quick ones. Um, yeah, two weeks in in the um two weeks end. Any hunt anywhere in the world, what would your dream animal be?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:04

Elk. Um, I have a passion to go tag out a bull elk, and I know a lot of people are like, Oh, that's just so common, but to me it's not, it's it's something that I would chase after in a heartbeat. And my buddy Rodney's tagged out on his own elk. It wasn't a bull, but it was a cow, and I envy that. Like, I I want that. Um, yeah, if it was something else besides an elk, it'd be a caribou, definitely.

unknown 1:06:33

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:34

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:36

But everything's great. I I love all of them. Everyone knows what mine is, so I'm not gonna even say it. I don't want people rolling their eyes. Everyone kind of knows, but um elk is up there for me. I think elk elk would probably be like my number three or four, and the only reason why I say this is because there's just a few animals that I don't even know if I'll ever get a chance to to go hunt. Like, I'm pretty sure like I've had the chance to go help uh hunt elk. I've had to turn it down just because timing wasn't okay, but I know it's it's going to happen at some point. Like an Alaska, like moose is not my number one, obviously, but like anything in Alaska, like I I don't like a grizzly bear. I want to do I would love to do caribou. Am I gonna get a chance to do caribou? I don't know. I may only get the chance to go to Alaska once, so I'm gonna have to pick very carefully tags like you know what I mean. Like that is something you know, and then that's why for me, elk goes right there. But elk watching them, listening to them when they bugle, man. It's yeah, I think that and I don't want to do it quite yet because I don't want to get like so hooked on where it's like I don't care about nothing else, I just want to go chase elk for the rest of my life. Like that bugle has got to be so like mesmerizing that like hearing that every day in the especially like in the morning when the sun's coming up on the mountain and everything like that. Like I couldn't imagine that's something that you would never want to not do again, and I could see why people are so obsessed with hunting. Yeah, yeah. Um that that is just something that I I I don't know. Uh it's I get addicted to hunting really quickly in different things. So it's a tough one, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:28

It's it's just something that I am so glad that I I listened to my father-in-law because he said I would love it, and damn it, he's right. And I am so hooked to it. I can't wait to get my kids hooked onto it, and it's just such a blessing to be able to go out to the outdoors, man. Like that's my my favorite thing, being out in nature.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:52

And so last one for the page. Where where do you want to see yourself? And you know, since you're new, I won't do the the five year spiel. Like, where do you want to see yourself in the next like year? Where where do you want to go with the storytelling and things like that? Yeah, what is the aspirations for for for that? Because you, like I said, you've grown. I mean, we're almost you're almost at 1k followers and everything like that. The growth has been absolutely amazing, the stories are great. So, what do you see for yourself in the next year?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:20

Um just to continue to to grow a community where people just share stories, and and I don't really have a specific goal. I would say the biggest goal though is to grow a community where people just feel welcome to just share and talk and connect. Like that's that's all I want, man. And I love the stories, but they I could stop writing today, and I would love if if that were the case, I hope that I have put enough into this community where people still talk about each other's stories that I've written and how awesome that is. Like, that's all I really care about. But um, if I had to say a goal though, um shoot. I would really enjoy to not just film my own hunts, but also write more about my own my own style of hunting and share those as well. But I I've I'm very fond of sharing other people's stories, that's what I enjoy most.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:26

Now I got one more quick because it came on the top of my head. So, you know, with this, and I I think starting the community and getting people comfortable and everything. Have you gotten yeah, and we all know how social media is. Has there been any hate that you've gotten? Not maybe you've gotten, or maybe you gotten, but also like hate of other hunters' stories or animals or anything like that, or is it just for you?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:49

Just towards me. Um, really, everyone has been so um uplifting and helpful and very encouraging, and I love it. It makes me so happy to get that type of camaraderie in this community. Um, but there's this one person that I'll never forget. She like tagged PETA and all this stuff, and she said, I'm gonna kill you if I ever come across you. I'm like, Who are you? I was like, you know what? I I I responded with just a simple like, all right, well, I'm sorry you feel that way. I'll be praying for you. And I hope that someday you'll understand that this is just me writing and sharing people's adventures in their own life, just like how you have your own adventure. So I left it at that. I blocked her and reported her because, like, it's it's just there's no place for that in the world. So I don't know. Hopefully, someday she opens her eyes, and I think she's just being a little ignorant to what hunting is, of course.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:44

Of course, yeah, everyone sees what what's on Disney, and I and this is yeah, like because of where I work and everything like that, like people have this image of hunting that they usually get from the movies from Disney. From and when you actually tell them what really goes into our hunts and the preparation and the time, and just the mental, physical, oh my gosh, um, emotional nature in it, and just how we really feel and how much we really care, not only about the land but ourselves, but the animals. No one wants animals to not 99 of us do not want animals to suffer. 99 of us are the good, you know, that follow the rules that that love all of God's creation. Like, I yes, I'm a big like sometimes it does get like I feel like a bond, and sometimes I do like I get this like, oh man, like I I really sometimes don't want to kill certain animal, but then it's like I also like eating and I like trying new things, and you know, being able to know that I can provide if anything was to happen, and and just having the the experience, and you know what? I I think it does mean a lot, even you know, people who don't believe in killing you know certain animals if you're not gonna eat them. But there's always a place like with coyotes or raccoons, and I mean we eat raccoons, so I can't even but like a lot of people don't, but like it's really good to get to kill for the turkey. There's this is conservation. We do more conservation than anybody else in this world, more than PETA does, more than all these anti hunters. We are conservation, and I always that's like my biggest thing. Like, oh, you kill animals. No, I kill maybe one percent of the animals that I actually see in a year. The amount of deer, bear, whatever we come across, you're only shooting such a such a small little amount. Yes, that like this is no, that's not what hunting is.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:54

Yeah, and it's such a shame how people perceive hunters as bad individuals, and it's just that is not the case, like so much time and effort goes into protecting these animals, so yes, we can hunt them, but like, for instance, you're going after your target buck and you've been targeting him for the last four years, it's come it's gonna come to a point where you draw back on your bow and you're gonna be like nope, and you just put it back down, and you're just like, I'm not, I'm gonna let him walk. It's you are connected to him, and it's just one of those things where you have just are so fond of his ability to thrive and survive in nature, and you just don't you just can't pull that trigger or you can't let that arrow fly.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:39

But yeah, per perfectly said. I I agree with you, but Zach, I I think we're gonna end it right there. I mean, this was a phenomenal show. I mean, I had so much fun. We're getting you back on hopefully uh next week to be on the yeah, dude, uh the roundtable segment and everything like that. Would love to get you on, you know, more and everything like that. And you know, it's been great so far with connecting with you and you know, all the posts. And I I got another you know, buck that I gotta I gotta send you and everything like that. Um sometime here soon. Um, that was one of my favorite hunts, actually. Um, the this gear and everything like that. So um absolutely incredible. But love what you're doing. I hope you keep it up. Hope you you know you stay connected and everything like that. If you ever want to come to Jersey and hunt, listen, you you got the invite. Uh, we we love you know when people come up and travel in to us and and hunt, you know, we we host events and everything like that. We would do that's awesome, uh a part of that and and things like that. So um looking forward to everything.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:42

Thanks, man. Yeah, thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it. I enjoyed this very much.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:46

No problem. Any everybody, I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. Everything is going to be down in in the description below. Make sure you go check him out. If you got any stories that you want to send, please send his way. I he'll he'll get it out for you. Any questions for either of us, just let us know. Make sure you click the follow button down below, and we'll see you guys next time.