The Silence Before The Shot

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Every hunter has a moment when the woods go quiet, the air shifts, and time slows down. And in that stillness, you realize you're not chasing the game. You're chasing something bigger. Welcome to the Chase the Unknown podcast, where we go beyond the saddle, past the show cameras, and deep into the stories that fuel the fire. The show is for the ones who lose sleep over the rut, who hike miles into the public land for just a chance, and who live for that silence before the shot. From the backcountry to the back roads. We sit down with hunters and trappers, with the relentless stories, who live for the thrill, embrace the unknown, and return with the stories we're telling. This is more than a podcast. This is the start of something real. Let's chase it. Today's guest is a straight-up killer in the White Tail Woods, founder of Ossio Gear, relentless bow hunter, and builder of the Mission Whitetail movement. Joe Miles has always made it his mission to outwork, outthink, and outhunt mature bucks on his home turf. OSEO's camo was specifically built for the Whitetail Woods. For the built-in concealment for tree sand hunters or saddle hunters who know every second counts, no gimmicks, just gear that disappears when it matters most. Joe's not chasing trends, he's chasing legacy from brutal all-day sits in the southern heat to outsmarting big bucks in high pressure zones. Joe breaks down the mindset, the tactics, and the grit it takes to get it done when he few can. If you're serious about putting mature deer down on the ground, you're in the right place. Let's get into it. Joe, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Man, thank you for having me. I'm uh super pumped to be here with you today. I appreciate you working out the time and getting me on here, man.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

No, definitely. Like it's um, I I will say, like, it's it's a huge pleasure of mine. And, you know, for for especially whitetail hunters and and bow hunters, like, I I gotta say, like, I first like, you know, I'm somebody who likes to see stuff first. And I actually first saw um, you know, I've heard a lot about it. I know a bunch of guys, um, like Ryan Pledger and and everything like that. Like, you know, they they love wearing osseo and everything like that. And I was like, I, you know, I I I want it, can't wait to see it. I can't wait to see it. And I went to the um Great American Outdoor show, as we do every single year. Um, but I stopped by the booth and everything like that, and finally got to see the uh everything in in person. And honestly, like I was I was telling Ryan, like I was like, I'm absolutely blown away. Like I've heard a lot, like I've heard a lot of great things. You know, one of our team guys and everything like that, Steve, he he moved to uh some of your guys' early season stuff and everything like that. And you know, it was just so great to see. And I I'm really like looking forward to you know using it and and and adding more more pieces as as we go on here. But like this is something that has I'd say really taken over in the last three or four years when you're when you're mentioning camo, you're always mentioning Ossio at this point. Um, you know, so uh real real happy to to get down and and talk to you.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

No, man, thank you so much. Yeah, it's been uh it's been quite a quite a road from from having an idea in the woods, you know, in 2018, 19 to to bring it to market and then seeing guys, you know, be successful wearing it. It's it's been a really cool journey and and we're we're super super pumped about where the where the company and brand is headed. So yeah, it's been a it's been a a tough, uh tough ship to row here for the last five or six years, and and we've got a really, really good team that is all behind the brand. Most of them are bow hunters, so that helps a lot. And yeah, we're excited about the future, man.

SPEAKER_01 4:08

Yeah, no, uh, definitely. And you know, it's great. Like I love like you're saying, like, you know, when you guys went one out 2018-2019, we're not talking about like a camo company now that's been on the market for 15, 20 years and everything like that. You know, you guys have you you came out 2018, 2019 and really hit the ground running. Is it is it really because you know, a big part of it's like this is really catered to the to the whitetail hunter and everything like that, and just like this is exactly what a lot of bow hunters and gun hunters and everything like that who mainly hunt in, you know, in the whitetail woods was able to actually focus on it. Because you see a lot of stuff, it's a lot of made for Midwest and you know, Alaska and like all these places, but nothing really, you know, catered too much to the to the whitetail hunter.

Growing Up Hunting South Carolina

SPEAKER_00 4:56

Yeah, I mean, that was the gap that that I saw in the industry is I started I got to a point in my life where I could do some western hunts and some you know, mountain type hunts, and I was using the real high-end premium gear that I had had never been exposed to before. You know, when I grew up, it was cotton and a little bit of fleece, and when it got cold, you look like the Michelin man, you know, walking out there, your arms were all jacked up, and you got 45 layers on and sweatpants and blue jeans, and you know, one layer of camouflage on the outside. And then I went and did some of these mountain hunts and got introduced to that premium stuff, and I was like, oh my god, this is the quality of this stuff is crazy. So did quite a bit of research on how a lot of that stuff was made and and said, you know, if I can ever think of a really good camo pattern that makes sense, it's not just some man-made piece that looks good to the to the human eye. If I can ever come up with something that really will work in no matter what season you're in and and what part of the white tail range you're in, then I I may just launch a camo company that fills that gap between a really good white-tail camouflage pattern that we can get close to deer in, and then the high-end premium fabrics and cut and sew and wind block and and uh you know all the insulation properties that that we have and like the Primaloft insulation that we use. So that's that's kind of how everything started. And and yeah, I think it filled a filled a gap and a niche and something that guys wanted. And so I definitely attribute a lot of that to the success that the brand has had. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

Now, you know, but before we really dive even further into into osseo and everything like that, you know, I really want to get into your background of just hunting and everything like that. So you were born and raised in in South Carolina?

SPEAKER_00 6:49

Yeah, I was born and raised in South Carolina. Very fortunate, grew up in a hunting family. My dad was a huge hunter, and I shot my first deer with him when I was five. And my mom hunted, my sister hunted, my brother hunted. You know, every weekend during hunting season, we would be down at our our club or our lease. And so, yeah, the bug hit me really bad when I was 15 or 16. I started bow hunting then and and just continued doing that. But yeah, very, very fortunate to have a dad. I mean, at one time he had the 11th biggest state kill, a buck killed in the state of South Carolina. And I I actually just hung up with him before this, uh before we got on this podcast. He's 80 years old and he he was going to scout a 70-acre piece that he just found. So he he's still out there doing it, man.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

I love that. That's absolutely incredible. And you know, that that's the one thing I think part of like, you know, as you know, for to watch your father now and you know, still doing it, you know, in in the 80s and everything like that. And like, like we're just talking about it's it's hot as hell out. Like he he's going out still, and you know, it's it's hot, it's human, and you know, you guys are more south than us, so I can only imagine what it's like. But that's that's just pure you know dedication. That's really really when you love it. Like you still have got to have that itch, yeah. You know what I mean? At 80 and and everything like to still go out. So that that's something nice that you've got to see and and everything that's like, all right, yeah, that's I want to be able to chase deer like you know, like my dad, you know, when when I'm 80 and everything like that, that's the goal.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

For sure. Yeah, no doubt. Yeah, so yeah, man. I you know, South Carolina home, still hunt here a lot. Got already got a couple cameras out, need to get some more out here after the fourth. But uh love, love hunting them all over, man. Alberta, Mexico, Texas, in the Midwest, just love chasing deer.

SPEAKER_01 8:41

Yeah. Now, and yeah, who who does it? That's uh that's why we're all we're all obsessed at everything like that, you know. But you know, South Carolina, it it's so different. You know, I've talked to some guys from from North Carolina, you know, we've started to move a little more to Delaware, Maryland area, Virginia, but you know, growing up, you know, what what was it like hunting, you know, in South Carolina? For us, it's it's just so different, just the South. You know, I'm so used to the North or talking to guys in in the Midwest and everything like that. But you know, for you growing up and obviously being in a hunting family where everyone did it, you know, what what was your, you know, what did you see in South Carolina that really sticks out to you compared to the rest of the state?

SPEAKER_00 9:23

Yeah, it's a it's a unique place. I mean, we we didn't have a limit on bucks up until, and I'll have my numbers wrong here, but maybe five years ago, there was no limit on bucks. So there were several seasons my dad, you know, would kill 15, 16 bucks in a season, and I think I killed 12 one year, 12, 12 bucks, and and for us it was really a numbers game. I mean, we got to a point where we weren't shooting year and a half old bucks, but you know, three-year-old, three-year-old eight points, 10 points didn't stand a chance. You know, if they and for us, it was outside the ears. You know, you're looking for an eight-pointer better that was outside the ears, and he was gonna get whacked. And, you know, we our season rifle season came in August 15th. It goes all the way to January 1st, and it's it's rifle, you, you know, and not a lot of guys bow hunted, and we didn't have a limit on bucks. We did have a a real limit on does, and I think that's because we had a weird population back in the 20s. We didn't have a whole lot of deer, and so these laws just didn't update until really, like I said, five years ago, where it you could do about anything. I mean, guys were running them with hounds, there's still some hound clubs around, but now uh in the in the low country in the part of the state where I am, the rifle season still comes in August 15th, goes to January 1st. You can shoot five bucks now, and I think maybe 10 does. I think I think you can kill 15 deer if you get all your tags in the state. So it's very challenging for somebody that wants to bow hunt because you you've got to find a spot where you can get away from you know rifle hunting. And they do have some bow only areas like on public, and there's some there's some spots that you know, different hunt clubs or private uh properties that you can get on that you can set up as bow hunting only, but very challenging to bow hunt. And but it but it you know, anytime there's a challenge, anytime there's pressure, you know, you're gonna sharpen your skills. And if you you really get addicted to it and go all in on it, you'll you'll get better and and become a better hunter. So I I do attribute some of the success that I have had over the years growing up in a state that that had a tremendous amount of pressure.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Wow. I mean, first that there's there's so many things in that. So you guys still for a rifle open up, you said August 5th? August 15th. Yeah, we're about August 15th. Okay, August 5th.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

45 days away to the opener of rifle season. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

I honestly like it. It's crazy. Like, I I've never so I don't know it, it it could just could be like it that's such like an underappreciated thing. It's kind of wild to like I'm trying to wrap my head around it. Like, so now we go down to Delaware, so we start September 1st, and I'm still getting used to that. That I'm like, oh my god, we start two weeks before you know we would here in New Jersey, but like to start August 15th, like it's it's gotta be something. So do you usually go out with the with the rafle? Are you still strictly bow hunting? No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

I only bow hunt, and uh, you know, it's it's August 15th, big time velvet, bachelor herds. It can be it can be a real deadly time to hunt them. And and if you've got some feeding patterns down and know where they're eating beans or you know, briars, or or we start getting some muscadines, which are some wild grapes that time of year. If you can, if you can find those spots that they're they're hitting, they're real patternable and they're they're they'll come in most afternoons if they don't get boogered up. So uh it can be a deadly time, but it's also, I mean, the mosquitoes, the deer flies or yellowflies, the heat, I mean, it is absolutely miserable that time of year. But you know, when you're you're addicted to something, you'll do whatever it takes, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:11

Yeah, no, I mean the the head's turning like right now. Like I'm I'm thinking about like eventually in the future, like I was like, yeah, I might want to go down to to South Carolina and you know get an early uh rifle hunting. You know, I'm I'm a big bow hunter and I mostly bow hunt, but like I think to be able to get a shot at you know, hunting so early. And I've my my big dream is to always be able to hunt on my birthday. Now, unfortunately, I am in August 5th, so no hunting season really here for us, but that would be as close of like, all right, like that could work out where that's that's close enough where I to my birthday. That might be the closest I get a chance to ever going out and and hunting uh close to my birthday.

Rut Timing And Cold Fronts

SPEAKER_00 13:55

Yeah, I think there's one in Florida that comes in around July 15th. I think that's the earliest opener in the uh in the country. And then I think South Carolina is second with that August 15th. So there is one, but I don't know, I have no idea uh what type deer or where in Florida it is that they open. It might be a seminole deer or something like that. I'm not 100% sure, but I know there is one that that is earlier than us, but we're we're right there. I think we're the second.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

Now, I I also do know, and uh like I love talking to people, you know, that are that are more from the south because it's like a whole different world when it comes to to hunting and everything like that for especially deer movement. You know, do you guys have that longer rut, or is it still like you that normal first two weeks of November, or are you something like do you get it like kind of like I know I've heard Alabama, Florida, like those places really down south get that longer later rut? Do you see any of that in in South Carolina during during your time?

SPEAKER_00 14:55

We do. We've got a really uh skewed for for a lot of the state. We've got a really skewed buck-doe ratio. We get a lot of does to bucks. So you don't have a super aggressive rut because there's not giant competition for does. I mean, you you you have some some rutting action, you'll see chasing and that sort of stuff. But it is it is very prolonged. You know, you'll you'll have some does that start getting bred in October. And then um, man, I've seen I've seen chasing and breeding all the way into the end of December, January, even. Dogs that didn't get bred early, maybe came in the second time and and got bred, you know, very late. So you get a a really weird fawn drop. Like, like we'll have fawns that are completely out of spots by the opener August 15th, and then you'll have some fawns that are just you know microscopic, just been born, you know, that are fully spotted and still on wobbly legs. So yeah, our rut is is is long and it's it's not like a Midwest rut. And and the I think one of the reasons for that is not only is the buckdo ratio messed up, but you know, you you start talking about Alberta. If those fawns aren't born, you know, right there in April in the spring, they'll freeze to death in the in the winter because they're just not big enough. So they they have to be born, so they have to rut, you know, that November very, very predictable when that rut's gonna be, whereas ours is prolonged and and uh just seems to go and go and go.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

Yeah, and and that completely makes sense too. You know, it that's one of those things where that's kind of like evolution, you know what I mean? And you know, animals they do everything to survive and they want to give you know their offspring the best chances of surprise uh survive. So like if you look anywhere in the north, you know, from Maine to Canada or anything like that, yeah, anything born too late, the likelihood of it making is basically zero, you know. So, but you you know, the further south you go, I mean, and and you guys, you know, have been getting hit with some with that cold colder weather, you know, and I've seen some snow, like you know, I was talking to someone on I was on their show down in Florida. Um he was like, it's crazy. Like he was like, explain to me like what it's like to hunt in the snow. He was like, that's like I I don't we don't know what it's like, you know. We we had one snowstorm and like the whole state shuts down when when it snows and everything like that. And for us here, it's like that's the day that I want to be out in the in the woods, like no matter what's going on, like no nothing's really shutting down. Like I drive in blizzards and everything like that, but you know, that that's that crazy like balance of like you know, you start to see a little bit more of that cold, freezing weather and snow, maybe once or or twice, but I don't think it'll completely last. But like, do you guys see a big difference like in movement on on days like that when it really drops down?

SPEAKER_00 17:57

Man, normally when it does something crazy like that, it kind of shuts down movement for a day or two. And then boy, when it starts to shift back, that's when they really explode. You know, that that's really when they get get going. Um, you know, we don't get a ton of snow, and it it it doesn't, it hasn't really gotten as cold here the last four or five years as it, you know, as I remember. And and again, that might be just me. I don't I don't have any scientific data to back that up. It might just be me and and um you know remembering it being colder when I was younger. But um, no, we we if we get two snow a year, that that would be kind of abnormal. Um you know, we we'll get some, you know, it's still we we get some 20-degree weather, and and yeah, they uh they they that that's you know always one that's flagged on the on the calendar of when I see a front like that. I'm gonna be out there. But when we get something really extreme, like if it's gonna be an ice storm or it's gonna get down in the teens or single digits, man, it seemed in my experience, it shuts down movement completely for that, you know, bit of time where the it's super extreme. And then when it starts to change back, you know, then then they really explode.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

Which, you know, what now listen, you said that that would kind of make sense to me because these deer, they're not they're not used to it at the end of the day, and it's not something that's going to last. And I think, you know, especially the more mature deer that you get, they kind of know like this isn't something that's gonna stay versus you know, the more north you go, once you start getting that very cold, snowy weather, like it can last now for months. So, yes, the the deer have no choice but to get up on their feet and go to go find food because if they don't, they are gonna die vice versus, you know, even if it's it's a one-day thing or a two-day thing, you know. I mean, at the end of the day, it's not going to last long, and they're gonna be able to get right back on their feet and everything like that within two, two to three days and be able to find food and and everything like that pretty pretty easily.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

Yeah, I think it, I think it kind of shocks them, you know, they're like, what is going on, man? It's 10 degrees out. We're not used to this. So it they just kind of lock down, and and then um, you know, but if you you know you get a three-day ice storm and and all the browse is iced over, you know, after day, you know, after that first day, second day, third day, you know, you you you see them up and going, they got to, you know, they don't have a choice, but but yeah, it's very unusual for us to have you know uh six inches of snow that sticks around for a week. That that's just super, super abnormal.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

Yeah, no, I I I would be, you know, I I I think a lot of people would be worried if that happened, you know, in the south and everything like that, where you know, you you get all this snow where it lasts a long time and everything like that. Uh, you know, for for us, and you know, I I know you you've gone out to the west and everything like that. So like going out to places like that, it's just like you thrive for the cold weather, the you know, the snow and everything like that. You know, those are the the days that you know, especially the the minute it starts happening, it's like, all right, I want to be in the woods. Like deer are gonna be up on their feet, they're gonna be moving, cruising, looking for food and and chasing and and and things like that. So, you know, it's always so nice to you know see the differences and and everything like that. Um, you know, so you guys have such a you know high buck number and high deer number and density and everything like that, you know, but still with a lot of pressure, especially with having a rifle season that long, you know, for you, like, you know, on on the private properties and everything like what what's really the the deer and the bucks genetics kind of kind of looking like down in the south versus maybe like you know, people that you talk to, or even if you get to go on on public land at all, you know, what what do you see the differences there?

SPEAKER_00 21:56

Well, genetic wise, um, you know, 120 inches. makes our makes our book in the state of South Carolina. So if you shoot 120-inch deer, you make the book. And you know, I think we have four or five net typical bucks that have made the national 170-inch book. I, you know, somebody will call me out on that and say it's eight or three, but it's it's not it's less than 10. I know that net typicals that have made you know the national book. So we we don't have great genetics. Yeah. You know, we we uh again we have a lot of deer and it's tough for us to get deer with any age on them because of that rifle season, right? And and we can bait you know you can bait year round. There's not a not a season on baiting you can feed deer you know right now all the way to this time next year. So any deer that's got that trait of of walking around in daylight of of not being nocturnal he's normally killed you know as a two and a half or a three and a half year old so any deer that makes it past that is going to have a super super nocturnal gene or nocturnal habit. And so you know there are some bucks that make it and and they they are really really tough to kill because the only time they move is is during the rut or the only time they move in daylight is during the rut. And then we back up to what we were talking about earlier is is those bucks don't have to be super aggressive because there's so many does so it it becomes a very challenging place to hunt for sure.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

Yeah I mean I I think you know that for for a challenge wise I I I sound like that sounds like like a pretty great state and also not only that like I think like if I could do things differently and I wasn't born in in New Jersey and I'm not talking about the Midwest because everyone wants to be in the Midwest like that sounds like a state like when you're getting into hunting that'd be such a fun state to be in because you get to hunt for a long time you get to hunt early but you get a lot of that like I I totally believe in when you're getting into hunting you have a killing phase. Like you are you're you're you're learning a lot and how the best way you do it is you you're you're not being picky and you start shooting stuff and you find the fun and enjoy and you you make mistakes and everything like that but you know you get to go out and you get to shoot you know so many deer and everything like that which is really going to help you at at the end make you a better hunter in my belief. So when you start chasing really mature deer and bigger deer and everything like that it's like all right like I we've been through this and and everything like that and you work yourself up but like I we can shoot a lot. I mean we we're a seven I think either moving to a seven bucks state or we are seven seven bucks state now and we have a limited dose but we don't have that right we're bow hunting all from from September to February with gun season starting in in November and sprinkled here and there we're bow hunting state um you know but it it's it's a lot different like you said when you're a rifle hunting state and you're starting so early and bow hunting is not much of a a thing it it definitely has a different challenge but would be very like yeah I could see how you had fun you guys had fun growing up and everything like that and you know you guys have killed a lot of deer and and and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

Yeah I mean you know it's it's funny we we I figured it up the other day there's like a 4500 acre track that has 40 guys that hunt it there's a 2000 acre track that borders that that has you know 15 people that hunt it there's a 1200 acre track that has 12 people then there's a 5000 acre track so it's about 8,000 acres well let's see four and five is nine 10 11 12 let's just call it 12000 acres and there's about 110 people that hunt that area and when there's a South Carolina Gamecock away football weekend in October it sounds like an absolute war zone down there in in that swamp because it's really close to uh the the the to Columbia where the football team's located so yeah it's a when there's an away football game buddy you better wear your Kevlar vest and and get ready for war because you're you're diving into where the bullets are going to be flying.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

That is that's so cool. Are you a big uh college football guy? I know college football is is huge down there.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

Yeah yeah we are we we actually I just had lunch with my team just a little while ago we were talking about Clemson and who else was going to be good and whether Clemson was going to beat Carolina and you know what what other team was going to be good. But yeah we're we're we're big football people and my my wife and son love to go to the Carolina games i i it it freaks me out a little bit those big crowds um I I don't like to to get in those baseball games I I actually played baseball at the University of South Carolina so I've I've got you you know some ties there but my wife and I really enjoy going to the baseball games as well so yeah we're we're a sports family for sure.

SPEAKER_01 27:10

I love that I love that yeah one of my buddies he he went down there and he was like I love it here he's like the football he goes everything it I go it's beautiful it's a sport and you know it is such a sports driven you know area and just like you know for the south it's a lot of football a lot of baseball and those are like die hard it's like it's like you're they're all professional teams especially now with the NIL deal and everything like that. But it's you know it's it's the way of life the more south you go the college football especially is just it's a way of life and it's like having it your own NFL team it might be even bigger in some of these these colleges these well known colleges and the SEC and everything like that or the Big Ten like Michigan and and places like that where it's like yeah this this is this is life and death like this is this is what we bleed is is college football.

SPEAKER_00 28:02

It is it's it's kind of unbelievable. And you know I I'm certainly not over the top and and during the weekend and in October or November I'm probably gonna be somewhere hunting but I'll definitely check the scores and if it's after dark I'll I'll watch a game for sure but yeah you're not normally going to catch me in November on a Saturday afternoon being being sitting on the couch. I'll be I'll be out there hunting somewhere for sure.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

Yeah no and and that's the one thing like with sports and I I grew up a hockey player and everything like I playing hot hockey at a really high level and that was like my always biggest problem is like once I retired from from hockey and I was got the full dive into hunting but before I I didn't have the chance because everything's going on at the same time you know I mean and it especially when you're you're an athlete at that like you're like all right like it it has to be one or the other you know if I was playing in the NHL or or NFL or something like that like and I had millions and millions of dollars like yeah that that would be no no problem all I gotta do is play sports and then I could just hunt whenever whenever I want when I'm not playing but you know when you're growing up and everything like that it it gets hard to so if you're a hunter and you want to be a dye like one of those dye sports definitely does take a back seat and it it's rough I'm a big uh fantasy football guy and you know the NFL and and hockey and everything like that but it takes a complete back seat I will dabble on red zone on my phone while I'm up in the up in a saddle um maybe freaking out a little bit because my fantasy team isn't doing well and I'm I'm gonna get pissed off because money's on the line but like it is it's a fun time that early part of the season you got hunting you got football you got hockey's kicking off for at least for me and everything like that. You got the ending of baseball and the and you know the MLB and everything like that. So it's a I think it's one of the best times of fall for for sure.

SPEAKER_00 29:54

All rocks no no question I like fall away but I'm ready for fall to get here especially with this hundred degree temperature that we've got down here in the south right now it's miserable.

First Midwest Hunt And Bigger Deer

SPEAKER_01 30:03

I'll tell you I was you know I I told you I was out I was out in the woods uh a little earlier and it was a huge tease because I went to go set up a solar panel and everything like that so I get up and I like to get my stuff up high but I brought the saddle with me so I could just move and everything and you know I was I was like oh my god like I cannot wait to be back in the saddle like the wind was blowing and it was cooling me off and it's like you have that vantage point you can see like I was like man this is such a tease but we're we're we're slowly getting there we're going to be back in in the fall time in our favorite place and you know I just so thrilled and cannot wait for for this upcoming season. Yeah for sure so South Carolina hunting down there where was your first state that you went to you know out of state hunt um and then what was it like your first time out in the Midwest whether your first hunt was going out to the Midwest out of state or or not but like what was kind of that when now you're in South Carolina and then you're going somewhere completely different and it's a huge change of tempo and deer yeah Illinois public land was my first experience out of state and I uh obviously you know in and this was when I was in my late 20s was was really my first time going out of out of maybe mid mid to late 20s was my first time going to Illinois and man I got out there and it was a earn your buck place that we were hunting so you had to shoot a doe first and then you could then you could buck hunt and you had to get drawn into this little unit but it it was pretty easy to to get drawn and I if I remember right you would get drawn and you could hunt for the week and then you'd have to resubmit and if you get drawn again you could hunt the next week if you didn't you had to go to a different spot but um so so I get in there and first morning you know we had gone in the the afternoon before hung a stand and I got in the stand that morning did not daylight rolls around nothing and then all of a sudden I hear a deer walking and I look and all I can see is legs and immediately I thought okay here comes a boon and crock I mean I've never seen deer legs that big in my life and like what am I going to do?

SPEAKER_00 32:24

I mean I haven't killed a doe yet and you know I've got the the the devil on one shoulder and the angel on the other you know going what what are you gonna do when this 190 steps out are you really going to let him walk are you going to and I'm like yeah I mean I'm in Illinois I don't want to do anything wrong and and long story short it was about a 160 pound doe that that stepped out and and I'm like okay well it's already shed right because in South Carolina you get a hundred and eighty pound buck that's a monster this thing was huge and and so I'm I'm looking I'm going no it's a buck with no horns you know I'm trying to figure all this out and then the fawn with it you know was probably 80 to 100 pounds maybe not that big but uh I was like oh my god that's just a doe and so anyway she she walked walked in and I ended up not shooting her because she had that fawn with her but there was another doe behind that one I ended up shooting that one and um so I got my doe out of the way but I I just remember thinking I've never seen deer this big in my life and this is pretty flipping awesome. So uh I ended up making friends with a guy that owned some private and ended up getting to hunt on a couple of his spots and killed my first poping young buck with a bow that that netted I think in the in the low 130s and man I was I was hooked I said I got to figure out how to do this every year.

SPEAKER_01 33:49

And and that was my first experience to Midwest hunting and man I ended up hunting in that area that same area in Illinois for up until probably five years ago and and killed some monsters in there killed several in the 180s a couple in the 160s just a a great place and and uh ended up losing my lease that I had in there and started you know moved on to Kansas and and that sort of stuff but yeah the question was that your experience first time out of state and that was that was it man it was pretty pretty overwhelming man I it's it's it's crazy to think like you're like yeah you know what that this is the deer size where where we're from you know whether you're from the south or even like Jersey like yeah we do get big deer and everything like that but you go to some of these other states like I'll tell you like my where my point were of that was like I go I go to Maine every summer and like we have family up there and we travel up there and I'll never forget seeing like when I was younger a doe and I was like how is that not a buck? Like this thing is so big and the body looks so muscular and everything like that I'm just like their dough are the sides of of our bucks like that what is like what is going on so what is a what is a buck look like here you know what I mean and going out to you know I've been putting in my points for Iowa and I I hope to go to Iowa and Kansas and some of those Midwest states and it's like you know I I love hunting in New Jersey but like there's a whole other class of of deer and we're not even also talking about like something I think is a lot is forgotten a lot is like Alberta you know and Canada and those those places like I've seen some just absolute giants in in Canada on on the YouTube and everything like that. Like these areas just have such big deer and they look our like they make our deer look so small in in comparison but it gets you even more hooked. Like you were hooked before but then it's it's a whole nother game just knowing for everyone who's listening or whoever wants to go out in the Midwest like you're hooked now and there's still another tier and more calibers of of deer and also hunting styles that you have to go and get used to you know a lot of the hunting that we do at least in West Jersey is like up in close swamps thickets and and everything like that where you go to the Midwest or South Jersey or you know maybe down in uh South Carolina everything like that it's more ag fields and things like that where things are are more open but that's a lot like how the Midwest is so you gotta there's there's different things that you got to do and it makes you a better hunter at the end of the day and it's just going to give you that like another skill to kill mature deer and in other areas.

SPEAKER_00 36:40

Sure. No no for sure the more you can expose yourself to different situations different deer different environments the the better off you are because you'll get into somewhere that you haven't been before and you've got stuff to fall back on. You know you can go back and and and really say okay I I've experienced something similar to this and and that I did this this and this and it it worked well so you can carry that knowledge with you no matter where you go to hunt.

Africa Leopard Hunt And Hard Lessons

SPEAKER_01 37:06

Yeah that for for sure and like you said you you've killed some also some great deer humongous bucks but you just you were you were in uh Africa too yeah yeah what was that like now a South Carolina boy going all the way to Africa was it the your your first time in Africa no so so when I got out of school I actually went and worked over there for seven years.

SPEAKER_00 37:29

I I did an apprenticeship and I outfitted over there and I ended up getting a professional hunter license and and so I worked in in Tanzania um and Mozambique and did a little bit in South Africa off and on for seven years and then then started my business back here at home and so so I've I've had connections over there for a long time and this this ended up being through a connection but uh yeah I had never really when when I've when I've hunted over there it's always been kind of planes game because you know they were fun to hunt similar to a whitetail and you could eat them and and you know guys would always say well what about the dangerous game and I was like yeah buffalo that makes a lot of sense I've shot a couple buffalo uh shot one elephant in a charge I had to shoot him um so I I had shot an elephant but I had never gotten into the predators just because you know you you really didn't eat them and and um you know that sort of thing and I I just was like nah I'm I I don't I don't know about that and so last year I was I was hunting over there and a a buddy of mine was with me and he said man have you heard about these Matobo Hills cattle killing leopards and I said no man I don't know anything about that and he said they're they they live in cattle country in the southwest of Zimbabwe and they they get massive because they eat cows that's that's what they live on.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

And he started showing me pictures of these cats and I mean we're talking 180 to 220 pound leopards and and I was always thinking you know 100 140 pounds was was about max and you know after seeing five or six pictures and then walking through how difficult they are to hunt because they the the ranchers down there the guys that own those cattle farms are constantly you know having issues with them you know he the the you know he won't walk me through how you hunt them and and long story short I said yeah I'm in so got got a hunt set up and it was super challenging the cat was very very smart we knew he was there we we saw his tracks we got him on trail camera and it just it was a cat and mouse game for for really three weeks and ended up getting him on night night 19 I ended up getting him and and yeah he was a he was a full grown one man big old fat cat for sure yeah no it's like look at that that cat is absolutely huge you know and so that was one of those things like it's a complete you know the farmers the and every it's a way of life over there and it's kind of like our I don't know like I would probably compare it to the hogs and everything like where they just destroy so much and they cost millions of dollars for us here in America but it's costing people over there their livelihood and everything like that because they solely need it off the off the cattles and you know sell the cattles and or eat the cattles and and everything like that.

How Hunting Funds Conservation

SPEAKER_00 40:20

It's a complete livelihood so that was like all right like this is this is what we're gonna do because at the end day like for for us being hunters like it's it's a bit big part is conservation and that is a complete conservation that's actually it the hunters in this area have actually increased the leopard populations because what happened you know the farmers went in there put cows in there they pretty much eradicated the lions um there's not elephants really in the area there do are some nomads that come through there but the wildlife on average is a lot lower because they compete with the cattle and then the leopards you know they're they're survivors and so there's leopards left but what happens is that it's a simple math thing if if an outfitter goes in in these ranches are massive you know some of them are 100 000 acres they're huge and you know he uh uh outfitter goes into the guy and says okay I'm just gonna use round numbers here I'm gonna give you a hundred thousand dollars to have the hunting permission for one year on your property and the guy goes okay let me let me look at this he goes I'm losing 50 cows at you know a thousand dollars a piece that's fifty thousand dollars that I'm losing every year so if I stop poisoning snaring trapping destroying all these um leopard and and other animals then I'm probably gonna lose more money and that's probably gonna they're gonna eat up to about$75,000 worth of cattle I'm still gonna pocket an extra$25,000 based on what this outfitter is going to do. So I'm going to protect the wildlife and I'm gonna stop all of the snaring and poisoning and eradicating because now for for my community and for myself we're gonna have um a we're gonna have a sustainable wildlife population that is putting more money because of the outfitting and the the hunters coming over and so it ends up being where you had major human wildlife conflict now you have none of that and you you see the the numbers of animals coming back because there's now economic relevance there. So that's a it really is a conference conservation tool and a lot of you know a lot of people don't understand that I'm sure that most of the people listening to your podcast right now get it but it is it's pretty unbelievable especially like the the rhino for example you know the the rhino was basically almost extinct because their horns were so valuable in in Asia. And and so I mean it was getting down into the hundreds of rhino left you know there there were thousands and thousands of rhinos in Africa but they they were being you know poached and destroyed and the the hunters stepped in in South Africa and started protecting them and breeding them and and now they're thousands of rhinos again in South Africa and and it's the hunters and the hunters dollars that have brought the rhino back and and you ask the average they don't have to be an anti-hunter but you you ask the average non hunter is rhino hunting a good thing and they would go oh my god that's the worst thing ever how could anybody ever you know hunt or shoot a rhino and it's because the media has portrayed it as everybody's a poacher. If you shoot a rhino if you shoot an elephant if you shoot a leopard you're a poacher they they don't understand the Real dynamic about how hunters paying what whatever it is 50, 60, 70,000 to go and hunt a rhino, and and then 30,000 of those dollars go back into the community for antipoaching, for rhino breeding, for rhino habitat. You know, a lot of these areas, rhino have to be protected 24-7.

SPEAKER_01 44:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:24

Well, guess what? That that costs money. Somebody's got to pay that. And so the the hunters' dollars really go a long way to help with conservation.

SPEAKER_01 44:33

Yeah. And that's something I saw, like, especially with the rhinos. Like, I was watching a documentary where the guy was like, This is what I do. I spend all day with this, with this rhino. And when it's my shifts up, somebody else is coming, and they're spending the whole entire time with the rhino because one, the number has gotten so low, the the horns are precious. And this is what we got to do. But could you imagine like you have to have money to be able to there? No one's doing it for free at the end day. You know what? You you will probably, and a lot of these people may probably take a pay cut, you know what I mean? I I would probably take a pay cut. Like that would be a pretty cool job. Like, I get to sit and watch a rhino and and protect a rhino or whatever animal somebody was paying me for. But like the more money we can bring into the habitat and everything like that, and to pay the the people properly, is going to, yes, it's gonna 100% help any type of animal on that, um being close to extinction and getting them out of that. And you know, we've been going on for for I don't even, I mean, I can remember since I was you know a little kid hearing about rhinos and being endangered and and everything like that. And I believe one of the subspecies of rhinos actually just went endangered. I think the last one died like not too long ago. I I I don't want to misquote it, um, maybe the white, black, I however they're the whatever they're called, um, you know, but it's this thing that's so mis misunderstood. And you know, when I sit down and talk to a lot of people who don't understand hunting, and you know, they always ask me, like, do you plan on going to Africa? And it used to always be no. I really didn't have much of a a um a will to go to Africa, and so much of that has changed over probably since this podcast has has taken off the the two shows and everything like that, where I've talked to a lot of people who go to Africa. Now we're going to the uh Great American Outdoor Show. We talk to people there, you know, we we talked to one of the safaris that you know we're pretty close to and everything like that, and how much not only conservation, well all of the conservation, but the money and you know you're feeding the tribes and stuff like that on on certain animals that you're that you're hunting, which you were you know a part of just doing the last, you know, going there for seven years and and everything like that. So you got to see firsthand of of the experience. But I think like if any hunter really gets the opportunity to do it, I think it is a it is becoming this key to do so we can really help um you know Africa out and you know, the people there, the tribes there, the you know, the people who protect these these animals and and everything like that. Um it is a great way to give back to there and do our part as as hunters and conservationists towards uh to Africa and any other place that that has that issues.

SPEAKER_00 47:27

Sure. No, I I agree wholeheartedly. I mean, I one of the places we hunted in Mozambique when I when I started there, you know, there's probably three herds of Impala, and they had anywhere from four to eight animals per herd. And we did three years of anti-poaching and snare removal. And when I left there, you know, before I stopped working in Africa, um, you know, that those herds had grown up to, you know, as as many as 50 impala per herd. So it just just in a few short years, if you can control the if you can control the poaching and the snaring, you know, it it the the wildlife can thrive. The the the problem, you know, the the problem or or the other shoot or drop per se in this equation is, well, you know, look look at these national parks that don't have any hunting, you know, they're they're thriving and doing well. And and and that that is a good point, but not all of Africa is like that, right? When where these national parks are are beautiful scenic areas, they don't have the Tetsi fly problem. Tetsi flies are like deer flies on steroids. And you know, and you get into these more remote areas that don't have any infrastructure, that have Tetsy flies, that have super thick brush or bush that is not as scenic, you you would never get a photographic person in there. And and you can turn it into a hunting area, and and that place, you know, after five or six years of a really good outfitter being in there and implementing the anti-poaching, you know, that that place is all all of a sudden with wildlife numbers is is gonna rival the park. Now it's not as scenic. You have the Tetsy flies and you have issues and you don't have the infrastructure, but that that is a great way for wildlife to to survive and and not only survive, but to thrive.

SPEAKER_01 49:23

Yeah. Yeah. Now I imagine one of the parks and one of the most well-known ones, I think, is the the Kruger, Kruger Park, which you always hear on on Discovery Channel and everything like that, where and that is like like you're saying, like, yes, you're gonna get a lot of those photographers and a lot of those companies who are gonna come out and do documentaries and stuff like that where they're getting money is being flown into into that park and everything like that, where they can still hire the proper stuff that they need to do and everything like that. But it's kind of like you know, you go out into the middle of you know the woods of Canada or Alaska or something like that. Like these are yes, they're remote areas that are very difficult to establish, you know, something like that. You know what I mean? Where you these these areas that where it's a bit harder to establish something like that really needs hunting, and that's gonna be the big like, hey, you know, money has to be coming in somewhere, conservation has to be coming in somewhere. Let's let's do it this way. Let's, and this is how hunting is going to help, you know, this part of the area versus you know, maybe Kruger State Park, because at the end of the day, it feels like every show that I'm watching on Discovery Channel and everything like that is is being filmed there and things like that. So everyone flocks already to it um where it's able to bring in bring in that money.

SPEAKER_00 50:43

Well, the one one major problem with Kruger right now is is they they have an elephant population that's not sustainable. I mean, they're destroying habitat, and they they have tried multiple things to control the population of elephant, you know, and and it needs to they need to have a massive culling, but they they could bring in, you know, quite a few uh trophy hunters or international hunters in there to take out some of these old bulls that that are no longer breeding and and raise more capital for the park. And what what a lot of people don't know is Kruger is fenced. You know, it it's it's massive, but it's fenced. And so these elephants are confined. And what happens? They they get around these water holes, these artificial water holes, and they eat all the understory, they eat everything, they destroy all the trees. And so then, like the sable and stuff will will that rely on that, they've completely destroyed the habitat for the sable, you know, up and down the rivers. They've completely destroyed all the habitat up and down the rivers. So now the bush, the bushbuck or the um, yeah, the bushbuck and yala, you know, that live in those riverine forests have all been destroyed and they've been pushed out, and then they become easy pickings for the leopard and for the hyena and lion. And so, you know, it has to be a balance. And and as as man, we have to be able to balance the because you know, it's it's not a quote unquote free range. I mean, it's massive, but in the old days, those elephants, you know, they weren't confined to those artificial water points. You know, they could really migrate and go, you know, hundreds of kilometers to get into fresh food. And they weren't all uh I I and I hate to get into a whole Africa conservation podcast here, but I I guess the point is as true sportsmen, as true hunters, you know, we we got to do our part regardless of whether it's in South Carolina Game Management Unit One or whether it's in Kruger Park, you know, as as sportsmen, that that's that's part of of being a hunter is to give back to the environment that we love.

The Owl That Inspired Raptor Camo

SPEAKER_01 52:49

For sure. 100% agree with that. You know, and then you know, we could uh something I and yet again, we've been I've been loving this uh talk and everything like that. But let's get into ASEO. You know, that that's something that uh I really want to get into. Um, so where where did the idea like when did do you remember what year? I imagine you remember what year were you like really like, all right, like this is the idea, but now let's make it actually happen.

SPEAKER_00 53:15

Yeah, so we we actually launched in July of 2019. That that was our first year. The the we started the idea and started putting things together and building prototypes in 2018. And so um, yeah, man, it it uh I I mean I've told the story multiple times. You know, I I was as I touched on earlier in the podcast, you know, I really saw a gap for a good camouflage pattern on some high-end quality apparel. And so I was literally walking in the woods to pull a couple stands out to move them to another location in October. And two Greathorn Owls got in a fight, um, or they were breeding or whatever they do in October. And um, one of them flew by me and lit up in a tree, and you know, I he just disappeared, and I walked over there to him, and you know, they kind of do that head bob back and forth, and I saw him, and he flew from that tree to another one, he disappeared again. And so, long story short, I had uh some biologists and some veterinary friends look into prey eyesight, like squirrels, rabbits, deer, you know, that that sort of thing. And you know, they they've got very, very similar eyesight. And I just said, man, from a tree, the camouflage of those owls is like nothing in the woods, and they have to make a living, like literally live and die by their ability to hunt and their ability to blend in and get close to the prey animals that that feeds them and their families. And I said, if ever there was a good elevated camouflage pattern, it it is the pattern that that owl has. So we started working on developing that pattern, and it took a while to get it right. And, you know, does it look exactly like an owl? It doesn't look exactly like an owl, but it takes their shading, the depth, and the coloring and how they blend, and we put all that together to create the the OCO Raptor pattern. And once we had the pattern, we we had a really good manufacturing team to help us with the high-end cut, sew, and fabrics. You know, it's it's quite a process pulling everything together. But uh, you know, the first year we launched, we had seven products. We had an early season pant, we had an early season top, we had a midseason pant, midseason hoodie, midseason vest, we had a late season jacket, late season bib. So we had seven main products in the line, and that's what we went to market with. And since then we've grown it. I think we've got 47 or 48 SKUs now from early season all the way to late season, and all the the gap pieces and puffy jackets and packs, and you know, it have got a full full line of stuff that we're we're really proud of.

SPEAKER_01 56:10

Yeah, I mean it's it's absolutely phenomenal. And when you when you look at the patterns and you know, just just first before we we get into the new one, the the raptor pattern and everything like that, like I I see you can so see it, and it does like I I see the inspiration, everything like that, and and you love it. And it's I I like how you use that, like you know, let's look at prey items and and what they actually see, and like let's create something like that. And it's so f cool how it's like where would it be if you didn't see those those two owls, you know what I mean? And and things are just meant to meant to be and everything like that, like and it's crazy to to even think of, but like that is absolutely like a phenomenal idea, and just like using because you you see so many companies use the the leaves and everything like that, but like why not actually use an actual animal where their whole purpose is to be blending in because they are a predator and they are trying to to catch prey where they're designed to be basically invisible, to go undetected and and everything like that. And it's like it's a it's a fun phenomenal concept, and and I yet again that's part of why so many people have gravitated to to this new uh to OSIO, to being a new, and like I said, you know, many times when you now talk about a lot of the c the top camo, like this is in everyone's top in the in the top, you know what I mean? And it and it's something that I also love too. It's like it's it's reasonably priced, too. You know what I mean? Yeah, we're we're that's another big thing.

RapX Ground Pattern And Bowhunter Design

SPEAKER_00 57:54

Yeah, we're customer direct, so we're able to you know cut out the middleman, you know, that that that would be you know a Bass Pro or a Cabela's or not to not to just single out those guys, but any store. I mean, they've gotta they've gotta make a living, they've got to pay for that space, and and we just cut cut that out. And and that that was not a uh a concept I came up with. It was actually a friend, a guy named Jason Harrison that started Couyu. Um, you know, he was the first guy to take camouflage directly to the consumer. And and um I knew I knew him before he he passed away, and and so that was kind of the inspiration from how we ran our our sales model was to be able to make it more affordable. But back to the the camo pattern, I mean that we we didn't we didn't do anything ingenious there. We we pretty much quote unquote stole from nature, but yeah that pattern that that pattern has worked for thousands of years. You know, I think as as as man, we have a tendency to over-engineer stuff and come come up with stuff that that that doesn't necessarily fit, but but is marketed very, very, very well. And you know, we we just kind of step back and and looked at the natural environment of how predator-prey relationships work and what really works in that in that world. And so, yeah, we we're um we're we're real happy uh with with uh how things are going and and I love getting the the testimonials and the pictures, man. When hunting season rolls around, I can't tell you the number of pictures and texts and Instagram messages that come in with guys that have killed big deer and say, Man, I had I had a doe that came by me at four yards, she never saw me, the buck was right behind her, and it's just neat that to hear all that, and it's very humbling.

SPEAKER_01 59:41

Yeah, and and then you guys come out with the rap hex, you know, and it for for both being in the tree and on the ground, but specifically I a brand for a camo for those those ground hunter hunters, uh spot and stalking, and and same thing coming from you know, bobcats, coyotes, things like that, of just using what they have been using for for millions of years into your guys' camo. And you know, that that was something like when when did that idea to be like, all right, now what's the next step of you know, how do we go from here now? Let's market um ground. Are are you a big ground? Do you get on the ground at all? Anything like that?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:23

Yeah, I you know, I I hunt, you know, elk, mule deer, uh, do some spot and stalk stuff, get out into Kansas and more prairie country, do some stuff on the ground, some brush blinds. And and you know, it the the RapX pattern, you know, guys, guys can still wear it in the trees. It's not just exclusively for if you want a universal pattern, one that works in the trees and you do some ground stuff too, that's your go-to. If you're very, very mission-specific and you're saddle guy, tree stand guy 100% of the time, then yeah, the raptor pattern is is the one to go with. And yeah, man, it it I was actually, you know, basically when we launched, I thought, okay, we need to do uh you know, a ground predator pattern. And I was actually super nervous that somebody was gonna beat me to the punch there. You know, they were gonna see the the owl idea and they were gonna think, okay, that makes sense. You know, there needs to be a ground, a ground predator pattern, and somebody was gonna come out with that before we were able to do it. But luckily that that did not happen. So I think that's that's kind of where we've set up our niche is that we're we're a whitetail, we're a whitetail company, and we've got camo patterns that are very, very natural that that work in trees or or if you're hunting on the ground. So that's that's our lane. We're not trying to we're not trying to build stuff to hunt in the Rocky Mountains. We're not trying to build stuff, you know, to hunt alligators or ducks or turkeys. You know, we we are white tail, very, very specific, and and even more specific, we we cater to bow hunters. You know, everything we build is very quiet, it's very efficient, very easy to get into your pockets. You know, we've got a patent pending bow hunting collar, so you don't have a collar that's that's it's in your way when you draw or when you anchor. So everything that we build, we look at it from a bow hunter's perspective, and and how can we get somebody closer to the animals that we love to hunt?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:17

Yeah. And and that's what I was gonna ask next of you know, some of the features and everything like that. But also, you know, you already talked about the bow hunting collar. Um, but I think for for me being, you know, and you know, I could speak on me, um, you know, strategic uh pocket placement of being able to put stuff because sometimes I I love putting stuff uh I have stuff in my backpack and everything like that. But the less I have to carry in my backpack, especially now with with camera equipment and everything like that, and being able to put stuff on my body and being able to get that easy access to a rangefinder, to a grunt call. Um, I'm I'm pretty damn clumsy where I'll go to set something up and I'll drop it out the tree and it becomes a huge hassle because if it's something I really need, like a range finder or you know, my grunt call, like now I gotta get all the way back down, pick it up, get all the way back up. You know, I I shoot a thumb release and everything like that. Putting something where I could put a thumb release where it's an easy access for me to be able to just to just grab and and everything like that, you know. How as a bow hunter, you know, I imagine that was pretty high on on the priority list of you guys thinking, like, all right, this is we need to be able to make it. And also, if somebody doesn't want to quick hunt, they don't want to bring out a backpack, they have something where we have pockets that designated for you to put your stuff that you're gonna need as a as a bow hunter, or even as a level hunter.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:38

Yeah, all of our bottoms have have eight pockets. We've got uh four thigh pockets, two on each side, then we've got two slit pockets, and we've got two back pockets on all of our pants and and bibs. So you've got eight pockets on the bottom, and exactly like you say, if you've got deer calls that you're running, releases, a small flashlight, a hat light, you know, screw in steps. You know, a lot of times I've I've gone super mobile and and and not had a pack. Um, you you know, you you've got a pull-up rope that you might have to have that may not be connected to your stand or your saddle, whatever it may be. So lots of pockets are important. And and really, you know, I mentioned earlier what can we do to get guys closer to the whitetail, you know, and how do you do that? Well, closer, you got to be quieter and you got to be more concealed. And so we're constantly working on the quieter aspect because there's a fine line behind having something that is completely dead silent, quiet, and then having something that's got some performance and some durability and some windproofing. So that's the other side of the equation is concealment, quietness, but then also the ability to stay in the stand longer in the elements, right? You got to be able to sit there, especially during the rut. And so, how can we make gear that's warm enough and windproof enough that a guy can get in Alberta in November and sit there from daylight until dark? And so there's a lot of engineering that goes into that. There's a lot of insulation, where the insulation's gonna be, where the windproof liner is, how long the tail in the jacket is, you know, if you've got a beanie, you know, a super warm insulated beanie, is a guy gonna be able to still hear out of it? You know, where how's the hood set up? Is the hood removable? If I put the hood up, can I even get drawn and see through my peat side and turn my head and not lose my peripheral vision? So, man, it's it's a lot that goes into it. And I I guess I am a little bit opposite of some of the clothing companies that have come out. It seems like a a lot of them had a lot of experience in the textile industry. And then they they caught up on the hunting side of it, you know, and really started hunting once they launched their their line. Whereas I I was the exact opposite. You know, I I grew up hunting and and

Leafy Gear For Close Encounters

SPEAKER_01 1:06:00

know i was in my mid forties when when we started osseo and and i did not have i had some some business experience but i had not had any textile or apparel experience and so that was a learning curve for me but luckily again we we were able to create a really really good good team that you know we we knew exactly what we wanted and it was just a matter of sourcing it so um yeah that that's that's pretty much the the long and the short of of osseo now what i a few more questions and yeah i'll let you get let you let you get going here something that i i like i i plan on getting and and buying right before i i head to deliver and everything like that is it's probably the leafy jacket you know yeah that that whole setup right there and you see it a lot on on ground setups you'll you'll see stuff like for turkey season and everything like that but I don't really see that for for the whitetails but it's such a like one of those things like why why don't we you know kind of and and is that how you kind of came to like this would be a perfect thing for the early season you know when all the you know foliage is is still up and and going and everything like where you can just blend right into a into a tree and just be part exactly like the tree and even I imagine when the wind blown if looks like kind of the the leaves are blowing and and everything like that. Was that kind of your guys' your my mindset behind that and when did you guys come up with the with that idea?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:30

So the the leafy leafy stuff has been around a while you see it a lot in the a lot in the turkey world a lot a lot of turkey hunters will will run the leafy stuff and it's got a lot of green in it. You know ours obviously our camo pattern doesn't have any green because there's no natural mammal predator in in nature that has green in its camo not one single one which is pretty phenomenal because so many guys are like man I got to have green in my in my in my camo and it's just because we've been marketed that for so long but the the leafy made a lot of sense because we touched on it earlier you know getting getting as close as we possible can. You know I I like shots inside 18 yards and and you know I'm shooting a compound but we have a ton of traditional hunters that that run osseo you know longbow and recurve hunters and those guys have got to get close you know that 12 8 to 12 yards is is the perfect range for them and you know everything you can do to get a guy that close and and certainly when there's foliage you know up until October even in South Carolina up until November and even really even into December you know you you still have foliage on the tree in in parts of the south. And so it made a lot of sense to us to have an elevated leafy jacket that that guys could wear that were were wanting to get super close to animals.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:52

Yeah and and I think as as a bow hunter like your idea like my ideal is to get as close as as possible. If I can get a five yard chip shot and sometimes I I swear the five yard shots are more difficult than the 20 and 30 yard shots because you never really practice the five yard chip shots but like that that's that's the idea and sometimes when you're when you're tree stand hunting saddle hunting whatever sometimes we're getting up maybe maybe not even a stick sometimes we'll just put the platform on or or just one stick it just depends depends on the whole how the whole setup is but this is like the the perfect key component for a for a camo and a piece of um clothing that that we would we would love to wear one of my buddies he he has it he loves it um you know and like I said it it it plans on being in in mine and it also you know it's for early season and then also layers on so you can use it in the in the later season too as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:50

Yes sir yeah no it's it's a great piece and and it has been I actually think we're we're sold out of them I mean we we didn't bring a ton of them to market the first year we had them but they sold out pretty quick. So uh yeah yeah it's it's guys have really really taken a liking to them and had some success wearing them for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:10

Yeah now if you if you could somebody out there whoever's you know one of our listeners right now and they're like all right you know this is what I what what would your recommendation be for somebody who's looking to get into osseo of the like maybe the first thing that they that they they can buy or they can you know for a birthday gift or a Christmas gift or coming up what is something that you would recommend to to start out as for for for a hunter?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:35

Yeah so so your your your average hunter is going to wait till it cools off you know they're not gonna be out there you know getting after it too terribly hard early season so we have what we call our 90% jacket 90% pant and that's for 90% of the season and that's our Sherpa jacket and Sherpa pant and those are by far our best sellers and you know that that's anywhere from your from your low 40s with no uh with with no base layers basically whatsoever. You can get start wearing that in the low 40s and you can wear it all the way down into the low 20s if you layer underneath it because it does have a windproof membrane that does a great job holding in your heat and keeping the wind out and then it is lined with a sherpa fleece so it does have some insulation in it. So the and the the pants this year are full zip that so they you can put them on over you know boots or anything and then then the jacket has um our our patent pending bow hunting collar it's got a safety harness slit in the back it's got two angled pockets and then it's got two hand warming pockets. So real versatile pieces that that you can wear for 90% of the season. So that that would be my recommendation and you know I would probably throw in a midweight hoodie because if you did get into some warm weather hunting you could wear the Sherpa pants with that midweight hoodie and with those three the those three pieces you can get a lot of hunting done.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:03

Yeah and I think definitely now more than ever of just how winter has been going you still get those warm days during the rut like you know in the morning it'll be cold as hell and then you get into the evening and all of a sudden you're like you're sweating because you have so many of these these other layers on and everything like that. And you know you're you're just absolutely miserable. So it's something that can come in handy too. You know you have the you know you're like you said you're 90% of the the time gear and then you can throw on something a little little less that it's going to help you with that evening hunt on those warm rut days where you don't want to leave the woods or or anything like that and you can just get a a quick change in or and or take off a layer and be good to go with with your hunt.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:46

Yep absolutely right yeah you can wear that midweight hoodie underneath your your Sherpa jacket for the morning sit and then just pull that Sherpa jacket off and you you you're good you know no no worries whatsoever.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:58

Definitely well um Joe I I want to thank you so much for coming on. It was an absolute pleasure would love to to get you back on in in the future you're so fun just also not only the Ossio stuff but actually you know talking to you about you know what it's like hunting in South Carolina you know going to Africa you know and and dabbling in some of the uh the Midwest hunts as as well I absolutely appreciate it and you know huge shout out to you guys I mean I'm really excited to you know be able to run some of your guys' stuff this year and you know grow more into the to the osseo um camo just something that like we said before and I'm gonna you know probably now say a hundred times like the fact it's made specifically for white tail hunters is is such a big key because that's mostly mostly what I do I'll be wearing I'll be rocking it during bear season too. Big bear hunter I'll be I'll be rocking it during bear season everything like that which is it's it's still it's it's the perfect fit for for us here and everything like that and and we're really looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:58

Man thank you so much for for having me and good luck to you this season I can't wait to follow along and appreciate what you do with your podcast and keeping everybody informed and man if there's anything ever I can do for you let me know I sure appreciate the opportunity to be on your show.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:13

Appreciate it thank you guys so much everyone I hope you guys enjoyed this episode go check out the link below Joe's personal Instagram is going to be on there and also the ASIO Instagram is going to be on there if you're looking for some great whitetail camo make sure you go check them out. Everybody we'll see you guys next time