Opening Lines And Big Energy

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Everyone has a moment in the wheels and realizes stories that feel the fire. Embrace the unknown for the church for the stories we're telling. This is more than a podcast. This is the start of something real. Let's chase it. What's up, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the Chase the Unknown Podcast. Tonight we have Danny Cohen Cowan from True North Woods and Water.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

Welcome, welcome to the show. Thanks, man. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Hey, that's one hell of an intro. I'll tell you that. That gets me going.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

Thank you. Thank you. I I worked, I'll tell you, like a lot, everyone kind of says that. And it's like I worked hard on it. And then like I had to keep reshooting because I kept messing up. And I do have one stutter in there, but that was the best, like that. I got it. So I was like, you know what? I am leaving it how it is. I go, I I love it how it is. That's it. Because if I keep trying, I'm just gonna keep hearing something.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

I missed it. Don't tell me where it is for the next uh, I don't want to pick it up.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Um, but Danny, well welcome to the show. Why don't you uh real quick tell uh everyone a little about yourself?

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Well, as you said, I'm Danny Cowan. Um, gonna be 30 this June. Don't tell anybody that either. That's a secret. Um, been in the outdoor industry since I was 11, 12. My old man got me started uh rifle hunting up here in central Pennsylvania where I was born and raised. Um, been fishing since I could even stand and hold a fishing rod. Um graduated high school in Altoona, uh, went to Shippensburg University, graduated with a marketing management degree, um, lived in Plethere States. I was down in Maryland for a little bit. I was in New York for a little bit, I was in Ohio for a little bit, and eventually, you know, I think all roads and rivers lead right back home. So here we are, right back in hometown of Altoona, Pennsylvania again. Um knew that I didn't want to sit in a cubicle for the rest of my life, knew that I didn't want to, you know, work for corporate America, you know, even though that's what I went to school to do. Um, I knew that I loved the outdoors, I loved hunting, I loved fishing. Um, I loved marketing with people and meeting people in the industry and and uh forming those relationships, I think that we all live for. Um so I went the crazy route and decided to start a nationwide outdoors hunting-fishing database company. So that's where we're at right now. I launched uh February 3rd of this year, right before the Great American Outdoor Show on the 7th. Um, and from there the rest just kind of took off, man. So I appreciate you having me on. It means a lot.

Maryland Outdoors And Ocean City Life

SPEAKER_00 3:17

Of course. And I I remember when you guys launched, and I was I was going to, I was supposed to go up to the Great American, I'm not sure. I do it every single year. It's like a tradition of mine, me and me and the fiance and everything like that. But this year was the first year that I got going into high school uh hockey coaching. So balancing that schedule, my work schedule, and still doing this and everything like that, and the truck, like my truck broke down. So I was like, you know what? We're we're just we're not gonna make it this year. Like, I was so close to renting a car and just driving out for like a couple hours and then I had to come back home because we we had practice and everything like that. And I was like, you know what, we're we're we're just not gonna do it this year. But love love the show. But before we get into you know, uh true north woods and and water and everything like that, you know, what was it before we get into even what was it like growing up in PA? Because it's one of the, if not the, in my opinion, the biggest hunting state, outdoors, you know, outdoor state. Like you can argue, obviously, like Michigan's up there and and stuff like that, right? In my opinion, I do think it's PA. Uh, the the sheer size of PA just alone. Um, but Maryland, you know, you you hear so much about Maryland nowadays, like maybe probably like 10, 15 years ago, you really didn't, even probably like seven years ago, I would say probably since Meat Eater went down there and and did their did their show and everything like that with the sick of gear, it has grown um so much. So, what was that like, you know, living in Maryland? What were you doing? Hunting, were you crabbing, fishing? What what kind of that look like?

SPEAKER_01 4:55

I mean, you you name it. So my senior year of college, I moved down to um Ocean City, Dead Smack, hard Ocean City, Maryland, looking for a job, like everybody that's about to graduate does. Um, landed a job, um, marketing and bartending and stuff like that, trying to get my feet in the door, get my feet wet. Um until I realized that that's not necessarily what I wanted to do. I found the outdoors. I quickly learned you know how to crab. We went offshore. I made relationships with guys that had boats. The bar that I was working at, the owners of um Hook HUK, if you've heard of them, used to come through the bar all the time. Uh great crew of guys. The White Marlin Open, the biggest bill fishing tournaments down in there. So I was working that for four years straight. Awesome time. Michael Jordan and his 81-foot yacht are down there. Um hunting, hunting Maryland is different. Um I grew up hunting Pennsylvania a lot, you know, bigger mountains, more foliage, um, stuff like that, bigger bottoms, bigger tops. Um, since I lived on the eastern shore, a lot of it was just, a lot of it was crop, a lot of it was egg, a lot of it was these tiny little sections of flat. Um adjusting to their rules and their regs, stuff like that was was definitely something that I that I had to get used to. Um, certain firearms that we could use, certain firearms that you couldn't use. Um but it is definitely a sleeper state, I will tell you that. I think a lot of people overlook Maryland and they don't realize just how much there is to do once you start answering down through that state.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

Yeah. I I think I think it's very similar. So I always compare Maryland, Delaware. We love hunting, Delaware, New Jersey, like those sleeper states of you don't think of hunting, or even really the outdoors when you when you look at those states, you know. And you know, for the last couple of years, we've been going down Delaware, and like you said, same thing as Maryland, you know, you you got hunting, you got all different types of hunting, but then also you got the crabbing, you know, you you have the ocean, so you you know, you can go out the boats, you can still do the stripers and everything like that. There is still so much to to do in in Delaware and Maryland. And I've I've heard of you know, obviously Daryl and Delaware being the sleeper, but Maryland is another one, and we're right there, so like we do want to go over the to the border and go hunt Maryland and everything like that, but there is so much to do, and yeah, like coming from PA, I mean it's just night and day difference. Like, I can only imagine your first time probably stepping into the woods, you know. And and yet again, like for rifles and pa, you can use just about anything, right? Like, I'm pretty sure you use any.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

Yeah, they're trying to pass a law soon that um they want, I mean, they want people to be able to use semis now up here in the mountains, which I think we won't get into that. I think it's crazy, but that's just my opinion. But whatever. Um, but yeah, Maryland's rules, their regs, what you can use, what you can't use, um, way different. Everybody thinks of it as you know, beach town. We just have to go to the beach, we can only do that, and then we can go out for the evening, but you don't realize how many opportunities there are. I mean, I'll I'll rip my truck down there just for two days to back it out on the on the beach and and soar fish and catch you know six, seven, eight foot sharks and ten and a half foot stingrace. And then I'll come the whole way back up. You just don't realize that the number of opportunities that are down there that you can really get yourself into.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Um, yeah, I'll I'll agree on that. Yeah, it's people do need to start. I I yet again, like it's it's probably especially for the older crowd, you know. I I always say, you know, the the guys that are stuck in their ways, and you know, same thing with us, like you you have a certain style of doing stuff, you know, when you can use at basically any rifle here in PA, like yeah, going to a state where you're heavily restricted on on what you can do and everything like that is not your not your cup of tea.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

No, um that's why I came back up, back up home. You know, don't get me wrong, Maryland's phenomenal. I have I have more friends in Maryland just from living there for those four or five years and doing what I did than I do back up in PA, even though I was born and raised here, you know, to this day. Um, everybody that seemed to live here ventured out, and I decided they do that. But you know, the mountains and the woods and the the season changes, um, the deer, the everything up here. It's just this is home.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

So yeah, I I I get that. Now, you also, one quick thing, also you said on Maryland. So down there, you were there when Michael Jordan had his yacht down there.

SPEAKER_01 9:12

Yeah, every year. So he started he started fishing the uh the White Marlin Open, they call it, which is the biggest bill fishing tournament in the entire world. Um, payoffs of upward of 250 million dollars. You know, they have 140 some boats that come down there. Um, you know, and they enter themselves into these different categories. So you can enter yourself into a Marlin category, a tuna category, a shark category, um, a dolphin category, and and obviously you have to you have to foot a pretty big bill in order to enter yourself into this thing. Um which he has. Yeah, with all of his sponsors and everything. That's fun.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

But um real quick, I've I've heard, and I don't know how many people here, like I'm obviously a big hockey guy, listening to Spit Spit and Chuck Hits podcast, and Jordan was always hanging out with uh with all the hockey guys and everything like that. I can't remember the exact story, but they said that their one golf buy-in that they did like per hole was just something absolutely like ridiculous. Like, I'm pretty sure like um I don't want to like a million hole or some crazy like thing that they were doing. I I gotta find it again. One one of these days I'll go through and actually find that that clip and everything like that. But yeah, the the guy, all his sponsorships, he's Michael Jordan. Obviously, what you said, 86.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

How big's his yacht? 81 foot. And I think he started fishing it two or three years ago, but don't quote me on that. Um, but whenever he and his crew announce that they're gonna come into Ocean City, that's that's when the crowd starts pouring. I mean, don't get me wrong, it there's a crowd there for the tournament, but once they find out Michael Jordan's in town, it's uh it gets pretty wild. Being able to see his his boat captain back that freaking boat in and parallel park it with you know an inch of space on each side and him standing there, and if the place goes nuts, it's pretty cool.

Growing Up In Pennsylvania Traditions

SPEAKER_00 10:54

That is that's so insane. I would yeah, I I think just that alone Michael Jordan down there, like I would probably drive down there to just go to go watch. Like that that would be something sick. But listen, him don't want to get too much on it. You have so much money, you've done so much in your life. NBA is also one of the greatest ever. People debate that he played baseball for for a while, you know, professionally and everything like that, not very difficult to do, fishing, golfing, all this. And I even heard like he has a NASCAR team or something like that. So yeah, the guy just he does it all at this point. Um, so you after college, after the probably like four years, you said four or five years, you head back up to PA. But growing up in PA at that time, so probably early or late 90s, early 2000s is kind of you know, those those really prime time hunting times for you as a as a kid. Absolutely. Um, what what was that like? What what do you remember from from that time?

SPEAKER_01 11:59

It's it's family, that's all I can say. Born in 96, growing up late 90s, early 2000s, everything was family. You know, you I was lucky enough, um, grateful enough to be raised in a household where mom and dad were together for 30, going on 32 years now. I have a younger brother who ironically lives in Maryland. That was his his spot. He made that home and I came back up here. Um you guys just flipped. Exactly. That's what's what we did. I came back up and he went down. We kind of just waved on the way, you know, past each other. Um, everything that we did was together. Um, I was raised in a in a household that hunting and fishing was everything. You know, we we weren't, you know, we weren't dead set on shooting the biggest buck because we didn't care. We weren't dead set on catching the biggest fish because we didn't care, but everything we harvested, we were we were eating. You were told this is how we're gonna do it, this is how we're gonna live our life. You know, God put these creatures on on our planet and in our rivers and in our woods to to harvest and to eat, you know. Um, I think today's day and age, people are starting to get away from that a little bit. And it it hurts, you know, obviously everybody's you know taking their own different their own different path and their own different ways and doing what they want to do, and that's fine. Um but I think at the end of the day, it's it's important to realize that when you're growing up, a young age, a young kid, um, that the the antlers and the inches didn't matter. And you know, it was it was genuine. You know, you could go out in the woods and you would see a bunch of kids hunting. You'd you'd make a lot of friends, you'd you'd make memories with strangers, you know. Um, and whether you whether you shot the biggest buck of your life or you shot a 70-pound doe, and nobody cared because everybody was damn happy for you and congratulating you when you were dragging it out to the parking lot. Um that's that's what brought me back up. It it was home, it's where the roots were buried, it's where the trees are gonna grow, and it's that's probably where they're gonna be watered and and die.

First Rifle Season That Hooked Him

SPEAKER_00 13:46

So yeah, the the tradition, and you know, from all the videos I watch on YouTube, and you you always see family tradition about PA. Like it's one of one of the few states that you know we we all like joke and laugh about, like, yeah, like I wish I lived in a state that you know the kid, the the schools would close for for opening day and and everything like that. Like everyone, everyone did it. Um not 100% sure what the uh per you know hunter is per mile or or whatever, but I know it's like I if it's not number one, it is number number two in the in the country and and everything like that. Um, you know, so what at what age, you know, were you or do you remember your first like hunt or maybe even maybe not even hunt? Like I'm not you know, could have just been, you know, dad or or uncle or whoever, you know, goes out and kills it, kills a deer, and you're you're going there doing the blood tracking and and you know, sitting around camp and everything like that.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

Born in 96, so I would have been probably 10 the night that my dad looked at me and said, one more year. You know, I was always up helping him pack his his rucksacks or his fanny packs and getting his gear ready and he's OCD about all so he'd have his clothes out, he'd be spraying them with whatever he used to spray them with back then. Like lace the boots up, make sure they fit right, you know, toes hanging out the front of him and everything, because nobody could even afford boots back then. They still can't today either. Um 10 years old that night, I said, I'm going with you. I said, I'm going. He said, No, one more year. I said, I said, okay, fine. So that morning he wakes up and I get a phone call, 8 30. And that means one thing. If somebody's calling you the morning at 8 30, the first day of rifle season, he said, I got one. I said, okay. I said, you know what to do. Bring them up, back them down into the driveway. We're taking our picture with them, and that's it. I said, but you're gonna promise me I'm going next year. And he said, You can go, but you're not gonna carry. I said, That's fine, because I think back then you had to be 12 or 13 in order to carry. Um, following year, fast forward. This is the memory that that did it for me. I had hiked these woods enough with him prior to him hunting in the offseason and scouting, stuff like that. So I was learning at a young age, you know, the terrain, the features, what to look for, what not to look for, what to bypass, where to stick around. Um, the morning of the first day of rifle season when I was 11, he said, Well, where do you want to go? I said, Okay, the pressure's on. I said, because this isn't my tag, it's dad's tag. And if he doesn't get one, I'm in big trouble. So we hike up to a big top, take the tram road, and I said, This isn't it. I said, This doesn't feel right. And when you're in the woods in PA, you get that sixth cents. You're like, it either feels good or it doesn't feel good. I said, Dad, we're gonna sit here and we're gonna eat our roast beef sandwiches and drink our hot chocolate, shiver for a little bit. And I said, We're going down to that bottom. I said, We're going down to the deepest, gnarliest stuff where those deer are gonna be. Like down in this bottom, it wasn't 10 minutes after our boots hit the very, very bottom. Guy takes a crack about 40 yards from us. Ironically, I have no idea of how that guy got down there because he had access from miles away, and probably just one of those good hunters that did that back then. Yeah. Um, he missed. The buck comes over to my old man and I he said, plug your ears. Because he was right next to me. 306, Springfield, just dead World War II, sniper rifle style, standing up. I'm standing there like this. Boom, burries one dead center test thing drops like a light. Being me, 11 years old, I take off running after this freaking buck and go grab it. And he says, No, no, no, we're gonna back up for a little bit, we're gonna teach you a lesson. When dad shoots, you know, we're gonna be safe about it. You know, you're gonna put the gun in a safe spot and put it on safety and make sure the deer's actually, you know, deceased. He's harvested correctly. Um, we're gonna give him time, you know. So there's there's these learning moments and these learning curves that you have when you're a kid that sit there in your memory forever. You just keep replaying and replaying these these moments back, you know, 20 years later, 19 years later. Um, that that's what did it for me was the moment that I let to tell my old man, uh, where are we going? And I said, We're gonna go down into this bottom, we're gonna go show ourselves a buck. So from then on out, man, it's just it's been an addiction.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

I I think that's probably been one of the best learning experiences like I've heard of, you know, because you you you did all the you know the scouting, and and you know, he taught you throughout the years up until you were you're ready to go out there the first time with it without a gun. And he like like you said, he he placed it in your hands, which puts one a lot of responsibility on on you. And and if anyone else does that with their kids or or had that done with them, is like, okay, listen, you still get to learn, but we're now you're taking control of the hunt, you're doing everything, minus the shooting part, right? And and it puts this huge responsibility on you. And yeah, like you, you right there curved the hunter that you were going to be through the future. You know, you you got to you know a spot, thought it was, you know, didn't feel right, and you could have either said, you know what, we're we're staying here or or whatever, but you knew where they were going to be from all the this experience of what your dad had taught you and everything like that. And you use it and said, Hey, you know what? At 11 years old, that that's well, it's either 11-year-old, it's a it's a tough decision to make, or because we're still so we're still so young and stuff like that, and and you know, we wanted to get into all that nitty-gritty, and it was easy for us to to to do stuff like that back in the you know, however, even you know, once especially probably once we get 40s, 50s, you're like, ah, I already start feeling it. I worked out yesterday, my back is killing me. I was out turkey hunting this morning. I'm so sore, I'm freaking tired, you know. I mean, but at 11 years old, that's that's nothing.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Running running down in those bottoms is is easy. It's it's getting back up out. That's the hard part, let alone whenever you shoot one, you say, Oh boy, now what? Yeah, yeah. Back then they didn't pack them out. Some guys did, but nope, we just drug ass sucker up, take a break every 15 yards, drug it up further, take a break. To this day, I still don't know why you know guys weren't packing animals out in PA a long time ago, but everybody wanted to drag the whole thing out.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

I'll I'll I'll I'll tell you, man. Like, I just started hunting PA. So now it's kind of our tradition last two years. We go up to PA for the opener of the rifle season.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

Pack them all.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

And you know what? It it's been a blast. Like it is beautiful, country. We we love it. You know, we're we're gonna probably try to bow hunt it this year if we have time. You know, we're big bow hunters, but it's it's like this tradition. It's like, all right, you know what? Like, let's go something new. I harvested my first PA uh rifle dough that this year and everything. Like two years ago, we missed. I don't know, and you can correct me. Obviously, the diehard hunters, right? The guys who are absolutely nuts. You go five, six, seven miles in, you know, sometimes you're like you, you know, maybe not everybody, right? But there's guys where you're just going in. We we got up there, two Jersey guys. We get up there two years ago, and we hike in, and we just keep going and we're going and we're going, and we bump, we bump a buck, uh, a nice big eight, and with like six or seven does and a and a just a cut, they just cut it probably, you know, earlier that year. Boom, we crack off, missed them, right? But we're we're it's having hell of a time, like whatever. Finally, later, we we get back and we run to a couple guys, and and they're like, Oh, like, you know, what'd you see? And we, you know, we told them, like, oh, where'd you see that? Oh, well, we're probably about like, yeah, we're probably like four or five miles in. We're like, What? We're like, Yeah, we're like, listen, everybody that we're running to was in the first maybe 700 yards.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

If that, yeah.

How Bowhunting Took Over

SPEAKER_00 21:56

If if that we I remember when we're coming out, we were kind. Coming, we're coming back, and we took a we did a huge loop. So we we go up this ridge and we're coming down, and we're probably like a couple hundred yards from the parking lot. Like, yeah, probably like 300 yards from the parking lot. And there's a ground line that we saw, and we're like, there's nobody in it. There's this is right, like you can't hold it, like you know, there's there's nobody in it. Two guys were in it. We're like, oh shit, we we get back to the to the truck, we go, we go to the diner, and my buddy hops onto like one of the Facebook pages for for that area, and some some guy on the face, hey, to those two assholes that were walking, and we're like, Oh shit, that was us.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

But you used to see ground blinds all all over the place. Um, the first year I ever harvested uh was with a crossbow. I was 13 years old, didn't get anything with my rifle uh the year prior. So I you know, growing up watching the outdoor channel, the real tree guys, uh you know, Don Kiske, um who else? The Landry family, um, the big name guys, they were they were hunting Mark Drury. Um my old man had never touched a bow in his entire life. It's they didn't do that back then. Everybody went out the first, maybe second day of rifle, and if they got something cool, and if not, they didn't go for another week to the next Saturday, and then they didn't go during the week because they were working, went the very last Saturday in in hopes. So, guys back then, I say hunted with hope. They went out there, they had their one spot that they'd try to get their boots to before anybody else at 4 30 in the morning, five o'clock in the morning, and they would wait and hope that something just walks by. So I didn't get one when I was 12. My very first buck I got on eBay because everybody on the outdoor channel was buying these pop-up blinds. I bought a$60 doghouse pop-up blind, and me and my crossbow and my blind hiked up the mountain. I set it up, and that was gonna be my spot for archery season because that's what I knew. Um, my old man was with me that day, and he had to come back home. He was coaching my little brother's soccer game, and he bumped a buck up to me, tiny little, you know, basket five point. Um the year before that, when I was 12, maybe the year when I was 13 before archery season, they had just um changed the antler restriction to three on one side. So I pulled out my binders and I'd it wasn't, I'm gonna say it's three on one side, but it was like two and a half. You know, you gotta say, can you hang a ring on it? And and I said, Yeah, you can hang a ring on it, but don't move the horns because it'd probably fall off. We hung a ring on it, it worked, whatever got it out. And um that's that's the day that bow hunting was was instilled in my blood. Um, I think I've killed one, maybe two rifle bucks since I was 13, maybe. Um, you just if you don't archery hunt, you're missing out, especially in Pennsylvania. I mean, you're missing out on months and months of good hunting.

SPEAKER_00 24:50

I I would say majority of state, at least I can only really talk about the East Coast, you know. I don't I don't know what it really looks like in the Midwest. Um, I know a couple have some muzzle odors like in in October and everything like that, you know. But uh I'd say, especially for us here from Jersey to PA, imagine you throw Connecticut in there, Delaware, and and all these states, like, yeah, you're you're bow hunting almost the whole entire year, you know. And but back then, like we say, we talked about the tradition. The tradition was to wait until rifle hunt season, always, you know, and and it was it's it's one of those things I would definitely say has changed. People still go out for the tradition for rifle, and there still are rifle hunters, but bow hunting has has flourished, absolutely just just flourished probably in the last 15 years.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

Yeah, well over 15 years, it seems like that everybody seems to have bow hunted now. If you talk to them, you know, stranger, good guy in the industry, famous name, not famous name, whatever. Everybody has either hunted with a bow or a crossbow at some point in their life now.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

Yeah, it it's it's one of those things that it's hard, especially if you you're just crazy about hunting. It's it's hard, it's a hard thing to pass up because yeah, you're waiting till why would you November? Right, end of end of November, right? I think your guys' rifle season starts.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

And we were like November 26th. We used to be the Monday after Thanksgiving. Um, now we're the Saturday. They're they were gonna try to switch it back. Um, they didn't pass that. Now they're adding more Sundays, and to be honest, I can't even keep up with it, and it's my home state.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

Being being a guy home raised in PA and everything like that, I I've heard a lot of the old timers, they they don't like it that it, you know, they loved it that it was on a Monday, hate that it switched on a Saturday. What I to me, looking on the outside, it doesn't make sense to me. Saturday, you're off, you're already off. You don't have to take off for work or anything like that. You know what I mean? It's it's after you know Thanksgiving. You you you probably have the long weekend and everything like that. To me, it would make more sense. Do you do you like have you heard from anybody that you're close to that wants it back on on Monday or anything like that? Why this is a thing?

SPEAKER_01 27:10

It's a a fine line that we walk here in PA, and it's probably one of the biggest debates that that we have as residents, you know, is there's the Saturday opener or the Monday opener. And you get the guys that they want it to be on a Saturday because you know they work a hard work week Monday through Friday, and they're not in school, they don't get off for the first day. So they get an extra weekend to hunt. Um, and then on the back end of it, the guys that want it to be on a Monday um are the guys that are retired or the kids that aren't working or in school, so that they know the woods is you know more or less empty because everybody that would be hunting is probably working because they can't afford to take off. And you know, most people can't nowadays. I mean the cost of everything. Who's gonna take off one day to deer hunt? They're just gonna wait until the Saturday. Yeah, it's different. I don't I don't hate it either way because I don't I don't hunt it. I go out, I'll put my buddies on some rifle deer. My brother comes up from Maryland every year, you know, the night before, smash a case of beer around a fire and wake up at four o'clock the next morning and and off to the woods we go. He's got his one spot, and occasionally I'll put some boots on the ground and see what's what's different, where guys are hanging stands, because everybody seems to hang their stands, you know, on Thanksgiving or a couple days before rifle and try to claim a spot that hasn't been theirs for the last 20 years. So you gotta kind of weave in and around all these new people that venture into the woods right before rifle season. So yeah, it's it's nice that he can make it up. Um, yeah, I don't care if it's on a Saturday or Monday because I I use every day to my advantage before that for two months hunting right with a bow. Yeah.

Why PA Big Woods Humbles Hunters

SPEAKER_00 28:43

Um now what one more on for for you personally, and then we'll get into you know the company and everything like that. Like we said, PA is known for those big, tough mountain bucks. You know, what what is that like hunting hunting these mountain bucks that probably differ from other places in the country that that you've that you've hunted or what you've experienced?

SPEAKER_01 29:11

The greatest thing that Pennsylvania ever did was establish an antler restriction, not necessarily inches, um, but three on one side. Doesn't matter if it's up, doesn't matter if it's out. Uh they did that back when I was a kid, and within two years, you were seeing your average buck was a 120, which is a heck of a buck, you know, to anybody, new or old hunter. Um across the next two or three years, you started seeing a lot of 130s, 140s, the occasional 150 pop up, and you're like, okay, Pennsylvania's turning into something serious. Um, the more people found out that they were getting bigger bucks, the more people started hunting, the more archery hunters we started to get, the more pressure these bucks were getting, and the harder those bucks made it for us to find them. You know, so there's big, big timber, big bottoms, big tops, crazy benches, thick morals, briar patches, big hemlocks, and you name it in PA. There's so much different terrain, um, so many different features. Um the the Pennsylvania big woods, big timber, central to north, central, northeast Alleghenies holds big, big bucks. The hardest part about it um is trying to find them. That's why I say Pennsylvania is definitely one of the best states to hunt, but a lot of people choose not to um because of how difficult it it does get.

SPEAKER_00 30:39

Yeah. Well would you would you rank it for a white tail? Probably out of the states. Do you do you think it's probably up there as being number one or number two of the most difficult states to hunt with just sheer size, you know, the the pressure, you know, especially in certain areas, um, you know, the constant elevation changes from, you know, not just wind from thermals to everything that you really have to deal with. Um, you know, maybe is it runs different, obviously, like maybe in a Midwest like Iowa, where it's just really flat, you know, you have smaller pockets of woods. You know, you you could easily say one of those states is the hunting capital of of the world, you know, for you know, but when it comes to the level of difficult difficulty. I would I would probably say have to give it a PA. You could probably PA maybe maybe a state like Maine or something like that. Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

I've never hunted Maine. Um, one of my staffers up in Maine, um, you know, so so argue with me about you know, is PA harder than Maine? Is Maine harder than PA? We'll go back and forth and go all day about that. Um, I'd I definitely give the white tail capital of the world out to you know, Iowa, Missouri, Kansas, you know, big big bucks, if that's what we want to talk about. Why? Because they have so much freaking food and their pressure isn't half of what Pennsylvania is. Yeah um, yeah, I would and not just because I'm a resident of PA, I would put Pennsylvania up there as the hardest state to hunt. If you if you want to go kill it, you know, a hundred inch the year, fine. Then Pennsylvania is not hard to you. If you want to hunt a 120, 130, 140, 150, 160 up in PA, good luck. I tell all my buddies out there out west, um, Midwest, if you come and you hunt Pennsylvania, you will be humbled. You don't show up to Pennsylvania and just sit there for a week straight and expect to shoot a 160. Doesn't happen, let alone a 130. It's unreal. Um, once you learn the terrain features, you hunt it enough, you figure out the thermals, uh, which way they're pulling, which way they're dropping, which way they're rising. Because just because they're rising out of the bottom doesn't mean they're going the entire way up, they're going halfway up and they're taking a hard right or hard left right to that buck that's staring straight at you, you know, skylining you, busting you before you even see him. It's just unreal. The the difficulty that you know that Pennsylvania is to hunt. Um, and and don't get me wrong, I've been hunting since I was 13, and you don't kill a buck every year. Ever. If you do, you're a really good hunter in Pennsylvania. If you can kill a buck, and I'll say a buck as in 115 or bigger, 120 or bigger. If you can kill one in Pennsylvania every year, hats off to you. You are a hell of a hunter. Um, yeah, it's just it's it takes years of experience, time, effort, boots on the ground, cameras or no cameras, it doesn't matter. You want to run them, run them. Just because that deer's in front of it doesn't mean you're ever gonna see him again. I've had pictures of you know 150s, 160s, low 70s. I think, oh, it's gonna be the year he's in the area. Nope, one picture of him, he's gone. Never see him again. It's unreal. So it's it's a good time. And I I recommend Pennsylvania to to everybody that I talk to. Come come hunt it. The whether you want to hunt flats, whether you want to hunt fields, game commission does their job and plants right. Um, big bottoms, big tops, whatever you think that you can get into, Pennsylvania. They offer it.

SPEAKER_00 34:07

So yeah, it's it's big pieces, like the piece that we hunt, it's huge. Like it, it's it's huge. Like it's it's so beautiful, like the just the area. And yet again, like we have beautiful spots in Jersey, and we have big spots here in Jersey that are big for Jersey. And like, you know, I'm looking at like one of my pieces is like 2,000, I think, acres, you know, or you know, you have um, you know, the Delaware water gap, which is that border of PA anyway, or then you have the pine barrens, which is yet again the border of PA anyway. You know, giant, those are giant pieces, you know. But going going to PA, like I've hunted Maine before. Maine is extremely hard as well. Um, I I they they easily for me go, you know, they go hand in hand. Maybe I probably still give the edge to um you know, a state like PA um uh is being a little more difficult. And it could just be because I don't have the same amount of experience in PA that I do with you know, Maine. Like I've I grew up in my summers in Maine, my family in Maine, like everything like that. We've they've killed some nice big bucks in the lair in the last couple years. It's like the turkey and deer conversation to me. I think hunting turkeys is one of the most difficult things I've I've ever experienced when it comes to hunting. Like it's and it's because I don't have that much experience with it, where these animals are just are are so goddamn hard um to to hunt. So yeah, PA is if anyone, yeah, you know, obviously it's one of those states I think you definitely have to get you, especially if you're on the east coast. I think if you if you're on an east coast state and you know you're looking for something different, whether you're you're a Jersey hunter, Connecticut, something like that, yeah, go to go to PA. And it is like you said, it will humble you. Be in shape. I I think the worst thing, the only thing I hate about going to PA during the rifle is that's when I start to fall out of shape. So I'm in great shape from now. That holiday, that holiday belly. Probably right up till Thanksgiving, you know, and then you yeah, it it's you eat so much, and I'm always like, we're we're we shot these two does this year, you know, 15 minutes apart, and we're good, like probably at least a mile and a half back, maybe two miles back, and the one doe is huge, and it's all basically uphill from from here, and it took us a long time, like we were we were dead, and then we you know we ran into guys that you know they had the four-wheeler, and you know, they're like, Yeah, we'll just bring the four-wheeler out. They came out of here, they brought the four-wheeler out, they helped us, but we were we were we started hiking all the way back. It was cold in the morning. By the time we were hiking out, it was got warmer. We're down. We're like, if we killed deer and and had to do this, like we were literally, if if it wasn't, we were gonna just pack it out. We're like, there's no other way to drag a deer out this far. Like, you you have no choice but to pack it out.

SPEAKER_01 37:13

Yeah, once I hit that that mile marker, um, you know, every everybody in PA has has their go-to's, their their spots. Um, you know, don't don't overlook the spots closest to the parking lots because now everybody's starting to think, you know, we we gotta walk five miles back in. So now all of a sudden you got a hundred guys five miles back in. Where are those deer? They're not gonna be five miles back in there with you, they're gonna all bump right back out to where you came from, yeah, obviously.

SPEAKER_00 37:37

Um, once I hit that bump earlier in another show, is that right there's hunting, and yet again, why those guys are probably by the parking lot where you know what? There's there's probably big, there's there's big bucks there, you know. Where yes, you can go five miles in, you can go, yeah, you can, or yeah, the deer are smart and they adapt very well, especially here.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

They have so so many different places that they can go. I mean, you you'll be in rifle season. We can use you know, walkie-talkies here, we can use cell phones, whatever. Um, most places down in big bottoms, you don't have service MPA, it's just how it is. There's no cell tower close. We we run walkie-talkies, and that way our phones aren't dying. In case there is an emergency, we still have our cell phones in case we need. Um, I mean, you'll you'll be a couple hundred yards from a buddy with a walkie-talkie, and he'll say, Oh, you know, group of does, you know, coming your way. Nope. Where? You know, they're not coming my way anymore, and you're only 300 yards apart from me. You know, didn't see them. It's it's crazy the way that they can sneak in around everything. I I swear they know where you're at. Uh they do.

SPEAKER_00 38:42

And big and and and last thing uh about this before we we move on to you know the the company, everything like big woods like that, deer, and almost any every animal, because you look at bears too, and everything like that, like a PA, like a main, like you know, you go up to Canada and everything like that, where everything is so vital from obviously your scent and the thermals and and everything like that, from every little sound that you make. Like, yeah, in Jersey, you can you can get you can get away with so much, you know. I mean, obviously, maybe some urban areas in PA, obviously, you yes, you you can as well, you know. But the big woods, like, yeah, they they know exactly where you are, know exactly what trail to take to avoid you as well. Um, so it it is a a very difficult, difficult thing there.

SPEAKER_01 39:32

You know you I've hung you know anywhere from 10 to 20 feet up trees most of my life. This past year I've killed my bucket 17 yards on the ground. So the second one I've killed with a compound on the ground. Um I've been in a tree before and have seen deer hit my trail in and turn around and immediately head right back to where they came from. You could soak yourself in whatever scent killer, apple, lick, pine spray that you want to. Those deer, they'll hit your boot tracks and they'll be lying out of there like never before. They know exactly where you're gonna be there when you're gonna be there. Yeah, and the the pressure, you don't know who was there a day before you. You can't smell them, you know. Who was there two days before you? Who was there that morning before you went out for an evening hunt? There could have been some guy there and he was gone before you got there. It's just there's so many different factors that you know come into play whenever you're trying to hunt big woods bucks.

True North Woods And Water Explained

SPEAKER_00 40:27

Yep, yeah, definitely, definitely agree. Now, true north woods and water. What is that exactly? You know, we we know it's a like I know what it is. Tell the listeners who may not know what is your company all about.

SPEAKER_01 40:46

True North, Woods and Water. We'll start um primarily with the name. How about it? Um, fully patented, fully copyrighted. True North is your orienting point in your life, it's what you live for, it's your passion, it's what drives you. Um, simply underneath it, woods and water, I think, you know, growing up, hunting and fishing, it's what my true north was. It's my passion, it's what I want to do. It's it's what keeps me me, it's what keeps me grounded, it's what I'm always thinking about, reading, learning, watching, you name it. Um, so I thought, you know, why not establish this and and see who else across the country has these same true north? And within 11, 12 weeks of launching, it seems to be a heck of a lot of people. So in short terms, it's a nationwide database company, a one-stop shop for everything hunting and fishing related, woods and water. Um, I combine the seasons, the rules, the regulations, the limits, um, the tags, the licenses, all in one place. Um, furthermore, um, if you visit my website, the top right of the screen, there's a tab called Find Your True North. You can click on it. There's two interactive maps there, one for guides and services, and one for retail and pro shops. Um, you cover your finger or your cursor if you're on a PC over top of any one of those states that you want to learn about, um, that you want to venture to, that you might already know about or that you live in, you click on it, and it's going to tell you everything that you want to know. Um, you can find taxidermists, guides, tracking dogs, both shops, pro shops, gun shops, bait shops, tackle shops that I say my staff and I recommend. They're the ones that we've either utilized, the ones that we've met, um, the ones that we've entered to, the ones that we trust within those states that it's 100% free to the general public. You can click on every single state in one day if you want. You can click on, you know. I'm trying to think. You can click on PA. Um, it'll tell you. Currently, I believe I have five taxidermists, six guides, some private wood, some private water. Um, I know I've got two bow shops on there, a gun shop, a tackle shop, and a fly shop. Um, that will be there forever. You venture to Pennsylvania, you want to you need anything fishing related, anything hunting related. Um, click on the company that's listed there. Leave you can, if you're looking at it, there's a logo. Click on a logo, um, there's a bio bottom, there's a website there, there's a phone number, there's an email address, there's a mailing address. Everything within that website is a hyperlink. So as soon as you click on that phone number, that phone, your phone's gonna start ringing. You click on that website, that's gonna take you directly to their website. Um, I tell everybody the the easiest way that I can kind of explain it to the people that might need it and not know about it. If you're in another state because traveling hunters and anglers are growing. You know, I think as as outdoorsmen and outdoors women, uh, we want to We see all these people that are that are traveling to different states and trying to fill as many tags as we can because we're we're limited in our own. So if you're I say if you're in Ohio, if you're in New York, or if you're in another state, you're 20 feet up a tree, you shoot one pack, like most of us do. Um, you need a tracking dog ASAP, right? Um you have you know mobile service, um, then we'll provide you a service. You get on whatever state that you're in, you find any tracking dogs that we have on there, everything's a hyperbole. You're 20 feet up a tree and in your ATT or your Verizon's working, you click on that number, it's gonna start ringing. You're sent directly to the tracking dog in that area that we trust. Um, instead of having to get on Google and type tracking dogs in Pennsylvania, and then it takes you to 18 other websites that you have to venture through, and then you have to pay a fee in order to utilize those, and then you have to you know scroll down through and find the one that's that's most available or that's closest to you. Um wax to utilize this platform to your advantage. Um, it it's absolutely unreal what we've been able to do in the last 12 weeks. It's it's overwhelming, um, but we are we are beyond excited um to introduce this to everybody. I've got 27 staffers in 23 different states already. Um, I've got companies and businesses of all sorts listed in every single state. I've got another 150 to put up after this. Um, and I'm um they're constantly in rotation. So there's new stuff going up every single week for everybody to use. Um to go off on a little tangent a little bit. I saw a I'm not gonna say a hole, but a gap in the industry where males and females were still doing their own thing. Female hunters were becoming something, and male hunters were becoming something. Um I wanted to combine kind of the best of both worlds and utilize you know both ends of the spectrum to the best of their abilities and advantages. I'm not afraid to say that there are female hunters out there that will outhunt my ass you know seven days a week. I don't care. There are some good female hunters out there. Um, and there are some really good male hunters out there too, you know, up there at the at the top of the list. Um I wanted everybody in the industry to start to appreciate, you know, outdoors men and women as a whole. You know, reach out to those females, reach out to those males, combine them. If you can start bouncing tactics and experience and memories, you know, from foe to friend to to acquaintance to whoever in the outdoor industry, you know, you go a long way. So over the last two years that it took me to build this, I've just reach out to anybody and everybody that I could. And I've heard so many stories and so many different tactics that I'd never even thought of, um even in my own state, that I could just use to my advantage from from somebody that lived across the country from me that just came to Pennsylvania two years ago and started to hunt, but they figured out something that even as residents, I have I haven't figured out yet. Um anyways, they're just I could sit here and I could talk about it for of course.

SPEAKER_00 47:07

I mean, this is what it's about, you know. I I think anyone, you know, when they when they talk about their passion, no matter what their passion, it doesn't even have to be hunting, fishing, or whatever. When you when you find your passion, yeah, you could just talk about it for for hours, hence why, you know, I love talking having a podcast because I get to spend you know, at least two to three times a week sitting down with with new people and talking hunting and fishing for the night, you know. I mean, um, yeah, I I think it's a it's a phenomenal, phenomenal idea. And I I absolutely love this because I think you know for for someone you know like myself who we started traveling to other states and and hunting, and and it's been always a big goal, just like a lot of people. I think there there is a point where when you find success in your state and you want to move on, or you don't want to become stagnant and you want to improve your skills because yeah, my skills here in Jersey are what they are. You know, I I know how to hunt Jersey, I go to Delaware and know how to hunt Delaware. You know, I go to PA, I know how to hunt PA, and and you're learning and you're picking up new skills, and and you don't want to challenge yourself and do and a lot of people um, I think really now more than ever, um, especially I feel like since COVID, everyone wants to challenge themselves, everyone wants to get more into outdoors and travel to see new things with social media. You know, you see what everybody else is doing, and it's like, wow, like I would love to, you know, I start doing my points for Iowa. I would I can't wait to, you know, eventually get to Iowa one year, you you know, and and and stuff like that, and and do all these things where the tags, the permits, the information you need to know is the most confusing thing in the world. And I'll tell you anybody listening who's not from Jersey, and yeah, you're like, oh yeah, you know what? I'm not gonna ever come to Jersey. Listen, Jersey has a lot. First of all, we have a$2 bear tag. We have one of the best bear populations in in the whole in the whole country. Um, you know, on average, you're probably chasing, and PA does too, don't be wrong, but yet again, PA has those really, really big woods. You know, I know some PA people that have never seen a bear. So um yet again, if New Jersey wildlife and you know, obviously the anti-hunters would wouldn't it be who they were, and you know, we focus more on actually pushing what we have, uh it would be a pro I think a much bigger and more popular animal, and where people would really come in to to chase uh bears and everything like that. It's a two-dollar tag. That that's that's all it is, and on average, I would say you could chase bears on average, like if you're coming around a three or four hundred pound bear, that that's that's pretty typical. A two 250-pound pear, yeah, that's that's that's pretty typical. I was chasing a 600-pound bear. You know, we we know guys in Jersey that's killed, you know, we know the guy that killed potentially the boat almost, or whatever 770-pound bear. And there's more bears like that, you know what I mean? It's but you wouldn't know that looking on the outside ends. Like you look at our our fish and wildlife, and just like probably everybody's you need it, it looks like this, and it's everything all jumbled, and it's like, okay, well, where do I go? Where this makes it like okay, like literally just pulls it up, and like, you know, I'm I'm in the you know, the the hunting site, the seasons. You know, you click on the seasons, go to hunting, or you and you know, say Colorado, you know. I I click on Colorado, and then there you go, it's literally right in front of you where it just simplifies just everything, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:57

So I so I I always tell everybody, um I got tired of Googling, you know, seasons, rules, regulations for deer hunting in Pennsylvania. Because if you do that, the government gives you three or four different government websites within Google to click on. You click on one, it takes you to the page that doesn't even tell you what the heck the rules and regulations of seasons are. If you click on the next one, it might, by the time you get to the third one, you usually find it after you're done scrolling through 10 or 12 different pages of information to figure out exactly what you want. So the nice thing about this um is the ease of ease of access. You know, you can click on a state and it'll take you directly to the website that you need to do, not even just the website, but the exact page in order to tell you, you know, whatever you need to know. Um it's a good tool to use, and there's you know, there's there's other companies like it. You could just use Google, you could just use Docgov. But the the bread and butter I tell everybody is is the companies that that I'm able to advertise and offer everybody to use while I say their advantage, you know, 100% free.

SPEAKER_00 51:57

So I yeah, yeah, I I love that. And everything, whatever you can do, it's just everything needs to be simplified. And I and I like that, especially, you know, you know, if if you're just if you're just a weekend warrior, it's it's one thing you're you're probably not gonna, but yet again, if you're doing anywhere between 50 and 100 sits a year, you know what I mean, and you're traveling to three to four, maybe five states, or some guys that are hitting like a multiple states a week, and they're just you know going up and down, like you know, like a couple of our guys, they're going out to Colorado this year, and our one guy he wants to drive out and either hit states on on the way out or hit states on on the way on the way back. So then there you go. He gets to, you know, that and this is exactly what I'm gonna send him. He's not big on the social media game, so I gotta send him, I gotta keep him updated on on everything like that because he just he's just no social media whatsoever. Um so I gotta send him this so he can actually find the details and and everything like that and look at all the information that he needs somebody to do.

SPEAKER_01 53:09

Tired of seeing um all these these friends that I've met, all these you know, these acquaintances, these buddies, um, these girlfriends that were they were traveling from state to state to state to state. And I said, Wow, how the heck do you do that? What can I do in order to make it easier for everybody, everybody else, so that everybody else that's out there that wants to do it can stop sitting there on social media and say, I wish that was me. Yeah, maybe next year. I wish I wish that was me. And five years down the road, you're still not doing it. You know, I I created this platform um with the with the help of some some people out in Arizona, my design team, my logo team in New York. Um, I have to give you know everybody the credit because there is no way in heck that I'd be able to do this without you know, all 27 of my staff are just far um working with five or six more right now that I'm trying to put on staff out west. Um, I would not be where I am with this without everybody else. My team of attorneys, um, my design team. Um the the Pennsylvania Game Commission's been working with me a little bit as much as I let them without you know giving them too much information. Um there's some some big names out there in the country that have reached out to me and and have really pushed me and and guided me in a direction that um I didn't think it needed to go, but now I know, and hence the updates and what we're gonna do with it and where we're gonna go with it and and what's to come next. Um, so I have to say thank you and at least give all the gratitude to everybody else because I'm I might be funding the dang thing, but they're the drivers, they're they're taking it to the next level. Um, so so thank you to everybody else that that's been helping me, reaching out to me, um, asking me what we're doing next, where we're going.

SPEAKER_00 54:51

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:52

It's been nothing but a joy, dude.

Building The Platform The Right Way

SPEAKER_00 54:54

I I love that. And you know, on on that, I got I have uh Zach sent over a question that he he wanted to ask. In his in your development stages, what was the biggest learning curve for yourself? And how did it, how did you overcome it? And also, like kind of like also that like three, is like when did you have the idea of this? At what year? Like, how long did this take? I know you guys just launched in February, but how long back was this your idea and your baby where it was an idea and then it became something? And you know, those those questions as as well.

SPEAKER_01 55:31

Um, so two what are we, 2026. Right now, I thought of this late 2023. I was sitting in a tree um in Pennsylvania trying to figure out, you know, can I can I afford to do a spring black bear hunt out in Montana this year? Can I afford to get down to you know Florida and catch tarpon on the flies? You know, um can I you know bump up to Maine? Can I start filling out all these tags and trying to get all these points and purchase all this stuff? It was so overwhelming just sitting there in my tree, trying to enjoy God's creation, trying to be at peace. Um, that I said there there has to be some other way besides overloading my Google with all of these insane questions, you know, and having to sit there and type everything out. Can I do this? Can I do that? What is this? What is that? Um, so I did my research a few years ago um to see if there was anything like it. Um, nothing. So, okay, we we might be on to something. We could start you know a little Instagram page or we could do a little podcast where we talk about rules and get all these guys on here to explain their state stuff. Um nothing like that. Okay, maybe we're we're really onto something here. So I put you know two and two together, used my marketing management degree um to its fullest, hired a team of attorneys. I said, I want to do this, you know, do your part, reach out to everybody that you need to across the country to make sure that I'm not mimicking something else or I'm gonna get in trouble. That that was probably the hardest part there in the development stage was making sure that I was following everything that I had to follow in order to do everything legally. Um but the the moment that it finally clicked was early 2024, um whenever I had I had built the first prototype platform with the maps and and being able to make everything interactive, um where it was simpler than I had ever seen it before. Yeah. Being being able to to provide information to the general public across all 50 states um is is a blessing. Um I I can't thank everybody enough, and I and I can't say this enough. Um, it doesn't have to be difficult. You know, you can you can hunt a state if you want to, you can fish a state if you want to, you can travel to a state if you want to. It's not all expensive, and it doesn't take you know an insane amount of of time, energy, or effort. Um, don't overthink it. That's where everybody, and myself included, started getting so confused and so overwhelmed um and so frustrated, you know, whenever I was trying to figure out can I do this? And by the time I was through every single government's website and webpage, I finally just said, now I'm not gonna do that this year. I'm not gonna try to go you know hunt turkeys out there in South Dakota, I'm not gonna try to go you know fish out in Utah. Um, and because all those government pages and information that you learn online, they they tell you, oh, how expensive it is, and you need to buy this, and you need to take part in this, and you need to do this, and you need to go there. Um, you don't. So I I wanted to make a platform that was easy for everybody to use um to their advantage, um, if and when they wanted to travel, hunt, fish, anything in another state. Um it's just it's I'm not gonna get all worked up if I told myself this, but it is it is my baby, it's what it's what I was born to do, this is what I was meant to do. I love helping people, I love being able to market with all these people and and interact with everybody within the industry across every state thus far. Um, and it is truly a blessing to be able to have built a platform like such for everybody to explore on their own easily.

Launch Week And Outdoor Show Chaos

SPEAKER_00 59:21

Yeah. Of course. And like, yeah, for for you and you know, for I imagine a lot of people out there as well who have built something from the ground up or just, you know, when you first have that idea, and and for you, you know, you you have this idea when you're in the tree and everything like that, but then to one is to to follow through with it, you know what I mean. That those always takes big steps, and you know, do it the correct way, you know, of and the smart way where you didn't want to to build all this and then a couple years later find out, oh snap, somebody already has something like this, and it it's I just lost everything that I've that I've spent time, money, and and effort for versus you know, I I think a lot of people don't think to you, yeah, hey, get the lawyers involved, especially on like get the lawyers involved first and make sure, hey, everything that we're doing is 100% legal, no one else is doing it like that. So, you know, we can find out right away if this is something that we get to 100% move forward to. But I imagine once you got that like okay from your lawyers, we're like, okay, like this is happening. Like, this is this is fully happening now. Now the whole the I'm not saying you, you know, the grind wasn't before, but now it's like, all right, like the ball's rolling, we really need to grind it, and you keep going, and then you know, you flash forward to to February, you know, right before the uh great American Outdoor show. Was was there was there some anxiety and everything like that before you guys, before you guys like launched and everything like that, or were you just like relieved? Were you just like, all right, this has been years in the making? I just you know, I I want it to like you know, if you know, I don't know if you have kids or anything like that, but anyway, listen, I imagine it's like when you have kids and you know you send them to school or something like that, and you know, you gotta see them off and everything like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:24

Right. Um, I don't have kids yet. This is my baby for now until I can finally you know sit down and lay down for a little bit. Um, there is anxiety every single day with this. Um, in the boots that I'm wearing and the seat that I'm sitting. Um, there is not a dull moment. Um, now that it has finally been launched, I get to breathe a little bit. I have so much help from from a plethora of states. Thank God. Um, but the the day that we launched, February 3rd, I finally sent the you know our group a uh an email that said we are live, period. And it it just seemed to just explode. Everybody was happy to be here, everybody was happy to be a part of it. Um, I think that the most anxious I had been leading up to it was probably two days after launching when I realized, okay, now I have a booth at the world's biggest outdoor show. What's what's gonna happen? And it's it's an impossible show to get into. So I'm I'm surprised that I was even able to get in. I put in for it in September of 2025. And usually there's a there's a two to three year waiting list. Um I got a phone call back that said, You you have a booth space, do you want a 10 by 10 or 20 by 10? Like I said, well, 10 by 10 is a little small, let's go 20 by 10. Um, and I'm gonna try to get as many staffers out there as I possibly can. I don't want a single person walking past us, you know, without asking what you're doing, what is this kind of thing. Um, so it was it was the best but most anxious decision that I had to make um was to choose to be in that show. Um days leading up to it, no sleep, um, phone calls left and right, trying to make sure that you don't forget anything. Um Harrisburg's three hours from home, three and a half, um, with a trailer, and I ended up forgetting my laptop. Oh so in my booth, I had a little TV, whatever, 40, 45-inch TV, where I would planned on HDMIing my laptop with a tutorial of the website, just so that anybody on the outside of my booth could see the entire platform, how the maps work, how the navigation bars work, um, how the e-commerce section works, how the rules to regs maps work, stuff like that. So, didn't I didn't I call my mom and say, Mom, I'm setting up the booth right now. I need you to drive seven hours round trip for me, please. She brought over my laptop. Thank the Lord Almighty, and thank her.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:53

Moms being moms. That's uh that's a mom.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:58

Anybody in this world I can give credit to it, it's her, not just for bringing me my laptop, but for putting food on a table, putting a roof over my head, and and pushing me to do everything that that she knew my mind and my heart wanted to do. Um, props to her. It's the it's a show, just trying to think off the top of my head. In the first two days, I handed out 400 t-shirts for free. Um, and across the nine days straight, I handed out 31,000 stickers.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:25

Yeah, sound sound sounds about right. Like, I I've been I've been going there every year, like I told you, for like probably the last as long as me and my fiance have been together. So that's 15 years. Um, one of my by far my favorite show, but like now, I'll never forget. Like, when I first started going, I knew nobody. Like, I didn't know anybody at the booths and everything like that. Now, like I know I know a lot of people there. I go there and I always ask them, I'm like, it is my dream to eventually be there, you know. I mean, to to to do a booth there. And I always say, Well, what's it like? And they're like, Listen, this is one of the most difficult things because you are saying the same thing over and over and over. And we we do small, we do small events, like we do small events here and there, like we do one every year. It's two, it's like two and a half days at the in New York. It's called the Empire State Show, and they're they're trying to build it back up and everything like that. And it's yeah, it's the same conversation over, but it's minor. And I'm like, man, this is exhausting me. It's only we're only on day like, we're only like finished the first day, and like I, you know, I've probably talked to you know, a couple hundred people, right? When you go to these shows, they're like, you're just talking to thousands of people. And like, where was when you when you after the show was done, were you just like, oh my god, like that that was the longest.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:53

What I was like that during the show. At one point, I think on day five, I said, if anybody sees me laying here on this carpet that thank God. I brought because it was just concrete. See me laying on the on the carpet, just kick me, make sure I twitch or move or breathe or something. Just make sure I'm still alive. Because you're right, you get stuck there, and you just it's all repetitive. You see all these strangers, all these familiar faces, maybe all these new faces. Yes, kids, older guys, um, got guys in in wheelchairs, guys with dogs, guys with you know, whatever. And they say, Oh, what do you do? Well, I'm a nationwide outdoors database company, all things hunting and fishing related guys, tax governments, rules, regulations, you know, this. And if you say that thousands and thousands of times, you just start to kill yourself. I'm like a tongue twister, too. Oh, it's it's terrible. I think I I think I said it in my sleep. Um, but thank God I had my staffers there that quickly understood what the mission was, what the opportunity was, what we were looking to do. Um, so that way I could I could hit some different people from different angles. You could take a break, you could step back when you wanted to, you could eat, you could sit down for a little bit, you didn't have to stand, and then we would just take turns. We would flip-flop. I would go talk and they would sit and they would eat because it it's a long show. I mean, heck, it would open it eight or nine a.m. and you'd be there till you know five, six, seven o'clock some days, depending if it was a weekday or weekend. By the time you got out of there, out of the parking lot, just you know, took an hour just to back out of the parking lot because there's that many vendors with that many guests there. It's just anything, but the weekend, it was so much fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:24

The weekends are crazy. We went the the one year we went, we went, I think this was I want to say this is like two and before Trump got re-elected, and he was there the year. Um he was there that year, and he was doing a speech, and it was jammed packed. And we uh, you know, we wanted to go and we're like, you know what, we're we're not gonna go see him talk. I I regret it now. I really do wish I I went and I I got to see him talk. I've never, you know, no matter what of anyone's stance is like I you know, no no matter what this his stance is to see any president speak live, I would like to do at some point. I wish I was I did it with him because I actually know that I I like him. Um but like listen, it could have been Biden, it could have been whoever, right? Even though I may not like you or dis or not like but disagree with what your beliefs are, how cool is it to be like, yeah, you know, I saw I saw a president in person. I got to see a president speak in person. Like, I I I think that would be that'd be so cool. I do regret doing that, but we had to go pick up our two buddies where they were there, and they went and we left the show, we go back to the hotel, whatever, and then we we have to go pick them up. It was a madhouse, it was madhouse. I think they didn't get done till like eight or nine o'clock, like at night. The show had already been done. I know the and then the one weekend, it's the concert too. I don't know if you you you went to the concert this year or even even had time or even wanted to go, you know what I mean? Um, but like the it's a busy, busy nine nine days, correct?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:07

Nine days, yeah. Most most outdoor shows nowadays are two to four max.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:16

So please, for the love of God, great American outdoor show, crew. Just make it a long weekend, make it a Thursday to a Monday or something. But I'll tell you what, there wasn't a single day across that nine days that it wasn't absolutely jam-packed at some point. I mean, yeah, it would slow down, it came in waves. Um, I I told myself I was gonna venture out and go hand out business cards and shake hands and introduce myself and my staffers and the business kind of thing to you know the other businesses that were there. I didn't, maybe an hour each day, if that tops. I couldn't get out, couldn't get away from the booth. It it was so much fun um, but so stressful at the same time. Um, now that you look back at it, you you kind of sit there and think, how did we just do that? How did how did we manage to do that? And not even only that, um, I just got an email from them today that says you renew your booth space, blah blah blah. I clicked yes, so we're we're going back next year.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:12

Um, so we'll figure it out.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:14

That was gonna be that was gonna be the next question. Are you are you guys going back? Well, yeah, I I definitely can't uh can't wait. I will and now that I know what my hockey schedule is gonna look like, I I like I am going to be there. Like I, you know, I I I think they pushed it, they pushed it back. I think it would have worked perfectly if they would have done it on their the weekend. So they usually start like I think February 1st or whatever. I think they pushed it a couple of days back, so it wasn't something had to do with so super, I can't remember exactly. And that screwed me up because it's usually the it starts like the weekend before. Yeah, and that screwed me up this year, where I was like, because we once that came, we were starting to get ready for states and playoffs and it like division playoffs and and state playoffs. So I'm like, damn, like to take off like now, like I was like, I was like, I don't want to let the you know the boys down. I was like, I was like, I can't, I can't really, you know, you know, uh, yeah, I'm not the I'm the assistant coach, but like you, you know, you're you're fully invested in like this is it was bringing me back, like, damn, if they lose, like I feel it like, you know, that I wanted to be at every practice, be at every game. So I was like, I I was like, I can't, but you know, hopefully whatever the dates are next year, I'll I I can't stay away from too long. So um it's close.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:34

I think it's I think it's only like a day apart. So this next year, 2027, I think it starts on um like the fifth or the seventh or something. So it's it's the same, the same general time frame, but just you know, every year obviously the weekends aren't gonna line up correctly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's it's definitely the first weekend. I think it's the fifth off the top of my head, but don't it's somewhere in and around. Um, but I can I can relate what you're saying about hockey because I coach the high school boys soccer team here in town, Quad A, um, the Altoona boys here, and and if anybody knows anything about soccer, that's that's fall. So September November, we get pretty close. I I can't say I haven't taken my first era days off. Um bunch of assistants, bunch of bunch of uh volunteers that that helped kind of get the season rolling and then maintain it. Well, I can still run this and still get my days in the woods because that's what I live forward to.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:27

I it's a it's a great thing, like uh for for us. I don't know if it's the same thing for you guys. I I know we're we're we're getting off topic now, but you know, this will um for for us here, we cannot coach. So if we're the high school coach, we cannot coach any of the kids for travel hockey or anything like that. So the like my coach is like, yeah, just make sure you don't like coach during the fall. And I was like, Oh, that's hunting season. I was like, you know, you don't ever you don't ever have to worry about that. Like, hockey is that one thing, like you I would be gone like every weekend, so I wouldn't be able to hunt. And then you have practices, like you have two to three practices, you know, during the week and everything, but you're traveling, like what I would hunting and hockey reminds me so much of each other, um, and the travel, why like traveling to other states because it's like hockey. Like, I grew up my whole entire life traveling to Canada, Michigan, like all over, you know, deep into PA, um, you know, down south. Like you you travel everywhere. So, like for for hunting, it's it's the same damn thing. Like, I'm I'm just driving and traveling, and that this is what I did growing up, and and stuff like that. And it's it's the same thing for for me here. So that's that's one of the things told the coach you don't have to worry. Um, but um you know for for you, I'm actually I have the it's the battle of uh PA right now. I don't know how much you're you're into hockey if you watch hockey at all, but Pittsburgh and Philly will be.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:54

They don't look great, I'll tell you that. Go Pennsylvania look great. I'm being Dead Smack Central, I'm about an hour and a half east of of Pittsburgh, and I'm about three hours from Philly. So I have to be a Pittsburgh fan, but at the same time, I am a Philly fan at the same time because it's Pennsylvania as a whole. I've got so many buddies over that way and so many buddies over this way. Um, but the penguins are my team. Um, unfortunately, right now it's not going too well, but you know, fingers fingers crossed, we'll make another one right now.

Dream Hunt Alaska Moose Finale

SPEAKER_00 1:14:24

Uh they scored in PA, yeah. PA Jesus, Philly, Philly came right back and and everything like that. But uh yeah, I got one one more question for you. Um, and I'll let you go and and everything like that. And yeah, definitely would would like to get you back on and definitely talk more, you know, especially some more PA uh what it's like hunting in PA and these mountain bucks and and everything like that. It it's really fascinating. But um two weeks, money is not an option. What is your dream hunt and where would it be? What was the first part? Um, it's two weeks. Money and time is not so it doesn't matter. Money doesn't matter where are you hunting, what animal are you going after?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:07

Two weeks, money's not an option. What animal am I hunting and where am I going? Um can I'm gonna say can we can we split the two weeks into multiple animals or no?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:20

Um I mean listen, I yeah, why not? Because my dream hunt is is moose in Alaska float, and you know what? I'll throw in another tag for like Alaskan brown bear or something.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:33

You read my mind, brother. That's that's where I'm that's where I'm going. I'm going I'm going to Alaska. If it's gonna be for the full two weeks, that's fine. Um, an Alaska moose with the bow, absolutely up there. Um, Alaska Grizzly or Brown with the bow is up there. You know, it's just I've been there to fish, I've been there to explore, to travel, to vacation. Um, and when they say it's Atlas Frontier and it's another world, it absolutely is. Um, I have a staffer, Victoria Sanchez, who is my Idaho and Alaska staffer. She's a fly fishing guide um in both states. So she moves there every single year to to start catching fish in the fall up in Alaska and then comes back home to guide in Idaho. Um, phenomenal fisher woman. Um she doesn't necessarily hunt, but she knows a lot of guys up that way that do hunt. Um so I'm gonna try to pick her brain a little bit and see what I need to do to get up there to the arrow moose or a grizzly or or a brown at some point. Um yeah, that that would be it because it is it is just so remote up there, and nobody understands it until they actually get up there and they venture to the bush and they and they see the the absolute magnitude of of the trees and the rivers and the animals that are just roaming around up there. It's just it's magical. You you cannot believe it or truly understand it until you see it yourself, yeah. But yeah, that's that's the hunt of the lifetime right now. Two weeks, money's not an option. That's where we're going.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:58

I I always tell people in a quick little rant, and it's not because moose is are my favorite, like you know, but every time I ask these people, and moose, you know, for I think last year or two years ago, moose ran away with it, and then but it's usually elk, you know, those are the number the two biggest answers. I always tell people, no offense, but elk is way more achievable than than moose, in my opinion. And in my opinion, right? Or in probably a lot of people's opinion. So when I say dream, like money's not an option, it's gotta be something like yeah, like I know I'm probably gonna hunt elk before elk in Colorado, elk in New Mexico, or like whatever elk I you know, I want to do maybe even elk in PA. I know it's a hard dragon attack, but you got you guys got uh elk so elk over there. But the moose in Alaska on a river, I go, that is something that I hope I achieve achieve, but maybe never never happens. You know what I mean? That that's a big one, you know, that that may never happen. I'm gonna do everything I can. Yeah, yeah, it's not or like um what is it, doll sheep, you know, or big bighorn ram or something. Like those are hunts that it's like very select few.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:26

Good luck. Yeah, I I think you'd have better odds shooting a moose up in Alaska than you would a doll sheep. I I I think so.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:32

I I think so too. I think I think that is like one of the hardest animals to you know, one get attacked for, you know, whatever, and also then once pursue that that specific animal.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:45

Yeah. Um my opportunity to main moose might be coming sooner than later, but an Alaska moose is is definitely the bucket list. So I'd I've always wanted to arrow a big one. Um, it might be in you know the United States that's you know more northeast than more northwest, but that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:08

Hey, listen, I'm I'm don't worry, you and I are in the same boat. I we've been putting in for our main moose tag for for years. I've had two family members draw tags. Um, I think one shot a cow, got a cow tag, and one of my cousins shot a bull. Sorry. Um, but like that that is like every year. I'm like when those results come, I'm just praying. I I tell everybody if, like, say this year I draw, there will probably be not much of a deer season for me. Like, that will be the only thing that I'm preparing for. Like, I won't care about anything else until that one is done.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:47

All right, I know, and it just depends on what what you're into and where you're from. I know guys like you know, that are they're dying to just draw one particular Colorado elk tag, and they will do anything and everything in their power and passing that just draw that one tag, and they don't care about Alaska Moose, or they don't care about Montana brown bear, black bear, whatever you want, um, Idaho black bear, um, dull sheep, um, Maine Moose, Pennsylvania elk. I mean, there's there's guys that set their mind to one specific animal in one specific state. Um that this platform helps them figure out and determine. Um that once they figure out what it is that they want to, then then they're sticking to it. So I'm glad we're on the same page about the Alaska moose. We'll have to come back to that.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:35

Come back to that one a little bit too late. Uh look like main main moose too as as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:41

Yeah. Um, so if you draw, it better be your first call.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:47

Hey, listen, I'll definitely uh I can't guarantee number one because of the excitement, but that's great. I will I will do that to give you give you a call and everything like that. Hell shit, maybe we'll we'll both draw and everything like that. We'll be up there around the same time and everything like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:05

Yeah, a girl I used to see a long time ago. Her her dad's best friend is a is a guide up there who got a Tom Mirando on most of his Alaska hunts. Um if if you ever need a contact for us that way to put you on grizzlies or moose or caribou, get a whole get a hold of me. Oh definitely. But you gotta draw first.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:24

Yeah, yeah, of course. But all right, everyone. Well, Danny, we we definitely appreciate you coming on. Absolutely great conversation. Uh any last words there?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:34

No, man. I appreciate you having me on. Phenomenal talking to you. Um, appreciate all the the care and love support that everybody's been giving the the platform, the the pages, um, the business as a whole. Couldn't appreciate or or uh thank everybody for anything. You know, I'd be sitting here for a week if I try to list everybody that that has helped me out, that has spoken to me, that has, you know, contributed in in whatever way, big, small, shape form. Um, it it means the world to me. And there's there's not a day that goes by that I don't that I don't think about it. And and I look up in the air and and I thank the big man upstairs for for the opportunities that he's he's placed in my lap and the people and the friendships and and the relationships that I've been given just over the last 12 weeks of watching this live, man. So hats off to everybody, um, including yourself for for having me on here. I really appreciate it. And I hope we can uh swing her back sometime soon and keep talking Pennsylvania Big Woods and New Jersey. I want to pick your brain about that a little bit too.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:28

Yeah, definitely. Uh I can yeah, I can we can we can talk all about that hopefully uh the next time we'll we'll do it on date where where Zach can uh Zach can get off and everything like that. But um everyone, we we hope you guys enjoyed this episode. Make sure you go check out True North Woods and Water. Uh the link is going to be the description below to their website and their Instagram page as as well. If you have any questions, make sure you you hit up Danny over there. He'll he'll probably imagine get right back to you. He got real back to me real real quick and and everything like that when I when I reached out. So I definitely appreciate that. Appreciate you coming on. And uh everyone, we'll we'll see you guys next time. Always available. So straight tight lines, everybody. Appreciate it.