Welcome To Garden State Outdoors

SPEAKER_01 0:00

This is the Garden State Outdoors and Podcast. Kill on early alarms, muddy boots, and stories that only the woods can write. New Jersey is one of the most underappreciated states in the outdoors, and little do they know what it really holds. From hard-earned public land deer to waterfowl, to predators, and everything in between. Now let's dial in with the men and women around the state of New Jersey who live this life every day. In New Jersey, excuses don't survive. Only the grinders do. Alright, everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Garden State Outdoors and Podcast. I am your host, Mike Nitre. And today I am honored and so happy to have on uh Ben from Rocking the Gun Dogs. I said it correct, right?

SPEAKER_00 0:59

Yes, sir. You said it right.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

All right, perfect. It is always the biggest, and you know, always whenever we're recording, and no longer, no matter how long I've been doing this for, it's always people's names, it's always getting like I always want to get that part right. And then after that, I can sound like an idiot, honestly. But I just want to get that intro correct.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Yes, sir. All good.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

All right. Well, Ben,

Meet Ben Of Rock And B

SPEAKER_01 1:25

well, welcome to the show. Um, really happy to have you on. Uh, for those of you who may not know who you are, why don't you give them a quick uh introduction?

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Sure. Yeah, my name is Ben Baker. I am down here in Far Hills. Well, down here, over here, up there. I'm in Far Hills, New Jersey, right outside Bedminster. Um, long story short, I train gun dogs, mainly Labrador retrievers. And my company's called Rock and Bee Gun Dogs. So we train dogs. We also are very big about getting them into the field and getting them hunting. Um, so we outfit some trips during the season throughout the United States. But it's uh yeah, it's a day in and day out thing. So we're always working for the next season and always training hard for next hunt we get on.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

No, that's I mean, the the pictures, everything that you know on Instagram is everything looks phenomenal. I've gotten, you know, there's a bunch of guys that uh, you know, that we've had on here and everything like that that uh you know have have worked with you and and everything like that. But where did where did this idea come from? Like, is this like something that you always had a passion for? Like, where did I imagine you're you were hunting and you're like, hey, you know what? Like I love this. Like, why not why don't I start something?

SPEAKER_00 2:40

So it's actually it wasn't from hunting. Um so long story short, growing up, I grew up around horses, I grew up around sheep. My grandparents had sheep herding dogs, um, so working animals where whistles, all that type of stuff were involved. So seeing that at a young age was really interesting to me. And then I went to college at Temple University, um, graduated from there, and I'm a hospitality management major, actually, which is a little goofy. So I don't I don't use my major. Um, but from there I went down to South Texas, where I got a job on a big exotic and whitetail ranch down there, kind of doing their outfitting and their hospitality side of the business. Um, so I did that for a few years, thoroughly enjoyed that. We were right outside Uvaldi, Texas. Um, ended up going to a hunting show up in Dallas, Texas, where I saw this company known as Wild Rose. They're one of the really big players in the Labrador Retriever game. Um, but I saw this company called Wild Rose. I was fascinated because of my childhood watching my grandparents' dogs. I enjoyed working in the hunting industry, and um I was like, let's kind of marry the two together so we kind of just be different, a little badass. So I went up to the owner of Wild Rose and he gave me a job. So I worked for them for probably three, four, maybe five years. It was a good little stretch down in Dallas. I worked for them, and then someone wanted me to come up to New Jersey to start training some dogs, so I made the jump.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

How was uh how was it you know down in Texas? Like, was there anything different, you know, going down there, working down there, training uh dogs and and everything like that? Was there was there a difference uh with the weather? Is it is like did you have to change your how you you trained and or were there some things that you had to touch on or focus on more with dogs and the handlers down in Texas than you would like somewhere in uh Jersey or uh state where you get a lot of obviously snow and and stuff like that?

SPEAKER_00 4:51

The one biggest thing with training dogs difference in the states is I would say that Texas is currently much more of a waterfowl area, and you have up here a very heavy influence with upland as well. So there's a big difference. Um, another difference I would say is just honestly the training temperatures. When you're in the summertime down there, you are waking up. I mean, there are mornings where we're waking up and you're starting to train dogs when it's dark out because by 9 a.m. it's 85 to 90 degrees, and a dog can only run for 10 to 15 minutes. Um so I would say times of days

From Farm Life To Texas

SPEAKER_00 5:30

and temperatures, things like that, and come winter is kind of like our fall. So that was that was the big training time and kind of the big hit-the-ground running, but you're also trying to squeeze hunting in, so it makes it difficult. But uh, those are probably the two biggest differences between the states when it comes to training.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Gotcha, gotcha. Um, yeah, like I I give a lot of people credit for you know moving to Texas, living in I mean, obviously, if you live there and you grew up there, like you're you're accustomed to it. But I'll never forget my cousin was you know from originally, they're from Maine. A couple of them moved to Texas, and they're like, Yeah, like during the day, like we just sit in inside in the AC, and like the pool is like is bath water, and I'm like, that's just that's just nuts.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Yep, yep, you have till nine, ten in the morning to be outside, and then you're taking an afternoon nap till four or five at night when you can get back out there. So it's it's just different.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

I I couldn't imagine. So when you real quick, actually, before you you moved back to Jersey and everything, start working up there, you know, you did touch on that. So growing up, it wasn't the hunting that really uh got you into it was the sheep herding, the horse horses, and and everything like that. Like, so kind of go over your like your what your childhood was like on a day-to-day basis. I meant imagine a lot of farm work around animals, dogs, everything like that. Um, and which got you into your love and passion for it is now.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

So, my grandfather was big into reigning horses, um, which is a competition within the western style of riding. So, my grandpa was really big into that during my childhood. Um, my parents, we had a small farmette, but nothing too crazy big. We had pigs, chickens, goats, um, so some really simple stuff. But then my grandpa would pick me up from school or pick me up, I mean, a couple times a week for sure, probably four times a week, and we'd go down to his place and we'd end up riding horses. Um, he taught us how to rope. He was into a bunch of the western styles. And then my grandmother down there, since they had a bunch of property, she got into all the sheep. So they ended up buying dogs from um some people out in West Texas and just some awesome border collies that were in the home, but also ran um outside with all the animals and and did their job really well. So we we kind of got to see both sides of it from a working small farmette where we lived, where we got our hands kind of dirty all the time. But yet we also got four or five days a week where we're around sheep quite a bit, the working dogs, and then again, my grandpa's horses and stuff, where we he taught us how to train and um how to rope and ride, and we started competing and little stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

Wow, hey, that that's crazy. And I, you know, it's even for me, like, yeah, you hear about, you know, listen, I I love what Jersey has to offer, but you don't hear that side of it, you don't know too many people who do that. You know, you you hear about people farming and you know, the usual stuff and having having animals and stuff like that, but you know, the riding, the roping, the stuff that's big out in, you know, maybe the Midwest, Texas, and and all those things, you got to live, you know, growing up, um, going to your grandparents' house in a real unique childhood. Did you know anybody else at your age that was kind of doing anything remotely like that? Or or was this just your one thing that you got to do? Um and you know, you got to tell stories, uh, stories about it and everything like that to your friends.

SPEAKER_00 9:04

I mean, there's definitely like in your elementary school class, you're probably the only kid doing it. But with that said, you just like everything, you fall into communities of people that do stuff like that. So you end up riding in a competition. Now you know five kids that compete. Um, yeah, so just like just like anything from hunting. I mean, you end up hunting with a bunch of buddies and you end up making a community out of it. So yeah, we definitely knew people that were into it, people that were more into it than we were. Um, but it was still such a cool thing to learn and experience as a kid.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

Yeah, yeah. Um, so when for you, when did you get your you know, your first dog, or you know, when did you start training, or was it did you take your dog to to get trained and everything like that? And like kind of run how that kind of worked at like what age did you start making that transition of you started, you know, handling these dogs more and probably and starting to train them and such.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

Sure. So in college, I got my first dog. She was a border collie because of my grandparents' influence. Um, so I got her. She was a really fun dog. She taught me a bunch of stuff when it comes to just basic obedience and things like that. Because I took it pretty seriously, I would say, getting into um just kind of the ownership of having something. Um, I went to Temple University, so she would cruise around, and it was weird to a lot of people. She'd cruise around with me without a leash on or anything like that, and we'd be walking the city streets and she'd just hang out with me. I mean, we'd go down in the center of campus and be a bunch of people strolling by, and she just she hung tight. So I got into that. Um, and then when I was down at the at the big hunting expo when I was working for the exotic and whitetail property, and I met Wild Rose, that's when it all kind of clicked in my head because I loved the hunting industry so much, and I didn't know if I wanted to do the whitetail exotic thing for the rest of my life. Um, and I love dogs uh so much. So when I was like, okay, I can put these two together, make a cool career, and I kind of figured I'd always train for someone for someone else. Um

Heat Waterfowl And Training Differences

SPEAKER_00 11:10

I just dove headfirst into it, and I trained at Wild Rose for probably a year and a half to two years before I got my first lab. Um, so I trained there for probably two years because I wanted to figure, quite frankly, I wanted to figure out on other people's dogs.

SPEAKER_01 11:29

Um gotcha, gotcha, yep.

SPEAKER_00 11:32

So I had a lot of trial and error and figured out how to train a really nice dog, and then my boss down there gave me a puppy um as kind of a a bonus. And uh her name's Daisy. It was a great bonus. Her name's Daisy, and she is currently in the passenger seat right here.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Just having oh my god, I love that.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

Um but yeah, she is with me all the time, she hunts with me all the time, and she's now seven. Uh, so she's been she's just been a fun dog to work with, and I learned even more off of her growing up, and then again, just kind of your hands on a bunch of dogs, you'll end up figuring it all out.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

How how much do you how much do you learn while while you're doing this and and going through the process, especially with your your first one? How much you know, like you said, she taught you. So, how much do do the dogs teach you and you know, maybe the different, just like you know, people and everything like that, their different behaviors and you know characteristics and and stuff like that has gotten you to be to the level that that you're at?

SPEAKER_00 12:35

Yeah, I mean, every dog is very different, which is kind of an interesting thing. I honestly compare them a lot to humans. I mean, like it's it's like working with kids where um one kid really might not enjoy playing football, the other kid might, and you just kind of you got to figure out what you got in your hands, and then you you pull out different things from them. Um so yeah, I would say that every dog is really different, and learning on each dog um shows you something different because I recommend every anyone who's trying to get into dog training, go work for someone, get your hands on a ton of dogs before you even go get your first dog. Because just like one dog, it might there might be three different methods on how to teach a dog how to sit. And if you know a dog is emotional or you know a dog gets stressed quick, or you know a dog is hard headed, you quickly can tell which approach you gotta take first. Um and say it's just little things like that. And so many people they they think dogs are robotic, where they're all the same, they think that every method should work the same. Um, for some dogs. I mean, some dogs are really great with clicker training, some dogs it doesn't make a difference. Um, and you can tell that within the first day and a half of messing around with it.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

Yeah, is is there like I I know one of my buddies, he got a dog, he's a big waterfowl guy, big just everything he loves, hunting birds and stuff like that. He got a dog. Um, and it was a like you know, the bloodline was like this is a hunting dog that parents hunted and everything like that. And turned out the the dog was um gun shy. And you know, how how often do you see that? And is that something that if handled correctly, can is that something that can change? Um, you know, and and how often, you know, yeah, like I said, how often do you kind of see that in in a dog into the characteristics that now this dog may need extra extra work or or like how do you work that into into the dog?

SPEAKER_00 14:41

So there it yeah, I mean, there's definitely a lot of user error because most gunshy situations it is a user error, just to be completely honest. Okay, where someone made too loud of a noise around it as a puppy, whether that be a car door slamming at a really, really young age, or someone yelling, or a firework going off at some point. Um, and there's a lot of dogs also that will experience a loud noise as a puppy, and it comes out later on when they're a year and a half. And every time you shoot, their head goes down, or every time you shoot, they flinch. And it's it's it can really come from just a dog being um at a young age when those little things set in, they're they can be hard to change. Now, with that said, you absolutely can. I have seen dogs make that make that switch where you know they were scared of something that was a loud bang, and after a month of work or so of kind of conditioning that out, they can overcome it. Um, but it's very case by case, I would say.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

Okay, gotcha, gotcha. Yeah, I I imagine that's that's got to be a big fear for you know a lot of people when it comes to, I guess, getting dog hunting dogs, especially, obviously, and you know, getting them trained and everything like that is you know, what if you know my dog is gunshot? Maybe something happened before, you know, maybe it wasn't even the person who who got it. Something happened prior, you know what I mean? And something happened, you know what I mean, and you just don't know. And yet again, these things are one, it's a lot of money, um, but they're like family. And you know, you treat them, they're they're just like your sibling, your kid, whatever, you know, they're part of the family, so you do want the best for them and everything like that. And you know, so unfortunately, yeah, you're gonna get dogs maybe that you have no control of something happened when it was it was younger as a puppy, and just causes it to be, you know, gun shy.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

Absolutely,

First Dogs And Learning By Doing

SPEAKER_00 16:40

absolutely. Yeah, you just gotta be really with puppies, you gotta be really careful. Um, because again, most of the issues you run into with puppies are are user error. And when someone is careful, I mean, just to be completely frank, there is there is some perfect ways to raise puppies when guys kind of figure out a formula. Um, we get a lot of puppies that people just give to us to train for them at a young age where I mean I tell a lot of people, you really don't need to bring your dog into training until about six months of age. That's kind of when things start to click and flow. But we get a lot of people at not at at eight weeks, they'll say, Hey, just take the puppy and keep it till it's done. And the reason they do that is just because they're scared of little things like that happening where they kind of want a foolproof situation, um, which I get because it's a time and money investment at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's I mean, I get it. Yeah, I I see when you're when you're looking at the uh the time and the money being spent, and you know, you you want the best for your dog, you want your dog to be at its best and and everything like that. So I get it. It's a tough, it's like sending your kids to boarding school, you know, or or something like that. You know what I mean? Um is there is there any recommendation that you can give to our listeners, like say, you know, we got a couple of people on there listening that, you know, they want to start getting into this. You know, what are some of the things to look for when it comes to buying, you know, buying a puppy, and or um before you even start the training process of, you know, I want to go out and I want to go buy a hunting dog. Like, what are come some of the things that I should be looking out for?

SPEAKER_00 18:18

The first thing I would say, I would I want before I buy any puppy, I always want to meet the stud and I always want to meet the bitch. I want to meet both the parents um because that tells you a lot. Tells you a lot. Um, when you think about it, a puppy is with its mom um where it's really learning a lot. I mean, 100% of its time is with its mom at before eight weeks. And um, you got to really make sure they're nice dogs because there's a lot of people who will breed one dog and they don't really know the other, and you run into problems like that where, you know, how how are mom and dad? Oh, I don't know, I never met them. Um, so that would be the one thing that I would say I highly recommend people do before they buy a puppy. Another thing, just to kind of get into it um and to know where to look, is I would get involved with a local training group. You can find groups of people that that meet. I know we do on Fridays and Sunday mornings. Um, I know there's other groups that meet throughout the week in New Jersey, um, but get in a local hunting group, whether that's Navda, AKC hunt tests, um, because they can really steer you towards a good puppy um and towards an investment that is, you know, quite frankly, not going to be uh a waste of money when you're looking for something that is that you're gonna be hunting with for the next 10 years. Um but yet it's also something that your family's gonna enjoy and be in the house with you. So um I would say spend the time and learn the community, and then um outside that just really make sure you meet both the parents and and see the drive in them.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

Gotcha, gotcha. Yeah, that's that's uh you wouldn't, yeah, you wouldn't think because I know obviously not in yet again, not in the hunting world where a lot of dogs, yeah, they're you know, they just go for genetics, but they don't really, it's like they you know one or the other, you know. You kind of know, you know, you know the mob. Usually usually that's how how it is, and you don't know really how the how the male is and and everything like that.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

Um the males, the males normally. I mean, I've seen dogs who are thrown out of master hunters and international field trial champions, beautiful puppies working in the field, but at two years old there's a little aggressive streak in them, and some of that is genetics, and you got and again meeting the stud tells you a lot of that story. Um and seeing what you're getting.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

Wow, yeah, I would have I would have never never guessed that. Um so you're in Texas, you come back to Jersey, you know, what was what was that like coming back from Texas to Jersey and the start of you know your training and you working over here uh out in Jersey?

SPEAKER_00 21:06

So I I would say for the first year, um so I I moved up to a property that was pretty large up in North Jersey, up outside Sussex, um, kind of near the want, I guess in Sussex, near the wanted area. Um, and up there, I I really just tried to run dogs on my own, um, did a little training, and I mean just kind of grass-rooted it naturally. Um, started a little small business for myself. Um, I've never been someone who's been super money hungry, so just kind of paying my bills was sufficing me at that time. So I moved up and started doing that um with plans of building a kennel up there, and then I had a family approach me um and ask me to start a kennel for them. So they had a kennel already pre built and things like that. So I Moved in there quickly and started really, really training a bunch. Got to the point of about 20 dogs that I was training at a time with a small staff. And then that's where I also really learned how to train pointers. I'm not the best pointer trainer. I'll be the first one to say that, but I can train I can train a pointer for any hunter that he would be happy to brag over. I'm just not a field trial or hunt train hunt test type of trainer when it comes to pointers.

SPEAKER_01 22:29

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

Um I trained for the field for it. So started learning how to train pointers there. And then probably two and a half years ago now, something along those lines, two years ago, I decided to go or decided to leave there and start Rock and B gun dogs. Um Rock and B Gun Dogs has been rocking and rolling since. We just finished uh a little kennel for ourselves for some training pups. And then outside of that, we're we're down here on Dunwalk Preserve doing quite a bit of training uh every day.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Yeah, I mean it it's it's one of those things. Start, you know, one, you know, I imagine it was a great offer, you know, to to do the you know, the kennels and have somebody offer that and everything like that. I imagine a lot goes into it, you know, you got to find the space, and um, you know, that's probably one of the biggest, biggest things that that you really probably have guess have to worry about. You know, I I don't know how much paperwork and everything like that goes into to what you guys are doing and everything like that. But outside of the paperwork and everything like that, finding a place, getting the the kennels and a place to to work with the dogs, I imagine

Gun Shy Dogs And Puppy Mistakes

SPEAKER_01 23:40

is a it's a pretty big thing. Um, but you know, starting you know running the um gun dogs, I mean that's it's a it's a niche that I never in a million years, no one in my family hunted with dogs, no one really bird hunted, no one really waterfowl hunted or anything like that. And I didn't start learning about this and how big it was and how how many people love doing this. I mean, from pheasants to to ducks and geese and every and everything like that. And these people who, in my opinion, these hunters, these outdoorsmen, I think they might be some of the most obsessed hunters out there. Like I'm obsessed with deer hunting, but I think it's it takes it to a whole other level. And I a big part is probably because you're caring for a dog as well, your your your hunting companion. And that adds a huge, huge, huge, I think, step responsibility and everything like that. But you know, when you started this, what what was that trial and error doing it kind of like by yourself and and really creating your your your own company?

SPEAKER_00 24:56

So I would say I don't know, I've always been a pretty entrepreneurial person, so kind of starting something out of the gates was something I was pretty comfortable with because I knew I could make the sales, I knew I could figure all that stuff out. Um but I guess the biggest thing, like you were saying, was finding the right place to do it. So down in Dallas, Texas, where I was training, was right outside Southern Methodist University area, which a pretty affluent area. Um so when I was figuring out New Jersey when I first moved to New Jersey, I kind of figured out where those communities were and things like that. Um, and that's that's very much where I've tried to nest my company. Um, because my goal is to always train not as many dogs, but at a higher quality. So we try to only train about five dogs at a time. Um, versus my competition is probably the nine to 13 dogs at a time, which you absolutely can do. Um, but we like to brag that we got to spend a little bit more time with each dog because of that. Um so I would say the biggest thing that we had to really figure out when starting on our own was how to get into the right areas, um, also finding the right people within those areas, because there's a lot of guys who claim they're waterfowl hunters or claim they want to be in it, and um ran it in little pockets where there actually is a big community of that. And then on top of that, finding the right people that want to be involved with the dogs um and share the same passion because there's a big hunt test community, big field trial community, and I'm kind of in the other side of the field. I'm a big hunter, so finding people that were very passionate about hunting as well, um, versus the the competition side of things um took some time, but it, you know, I'm a firm believer that if you work hard enough and you keep on pushing, you're you're gonna have a breakthrough at some point. You know, you can throw you throw a dart at the wall as many times as you want, you'll eventually make a hole. So um just gotta walk through it, and that's what we did, and and it's really working out.

SPEAKER_01 27:10

Yeah, and I mean, yeah, uh obviously, like it. This is, I mean, the more and more I look into to especially for waterfowl, me and every waterfowl for me and everything like that, and you know that that has grown so much in my life and all and a lot of the guys' lives that that I know and everything like that. But even the pheasant hunting, like I know New Jersey, it's one of the craziest times, and you know, I know you talked about pointers and everything like that, and you know, you'll do it. And how how often are you getting you know, maybe dogs to train for for pheasant upland birds versus worse versus waterfowl? And kind of what does the training differ for for the two two species that you're gonna you're gonna be chasing?

SPEAKER_00 27:59

So it's actually kind of funny. Sure, it's kind of funny. A lot of we get that question quite a bit, and to be honest with you, a lot of the training goes hand in hand. So any dog you get from us can train or can run on waterfowl, they can also run on upland, no problem. Because what we teach is we start on the ground, start on land, and then we take it to the water. So when it comes to teaching a dog how to hunt, um hunt a field or find or hunt um a big old thing of cattails right off the bank, um, the same commands are used to put your nose down, look for something, look for that bird. Um so and quite frankly, a lot of the labs that we also breed naturally quarter. So when you're cruising through a field, all you have to do is kind of keep them close, keep them near, um, give them that command to use their nose and hunt. I use the word lost quite a bit. Um, so our lost command, and that dog's out there chasing. So a lot of our dogs do both. Um, I would say most people that come to us for training are looking for upland. They're not looking for upland.

SPEAKER_01 29:07

Oh, we're out, really.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

Yeah, yeah. I would say probably 60 to 70 percent of the people are looking for upland because that's what you have up here is you have tons of upland clubs where guys can go down and put 10 pheasants out in the in a private little field. Um, so we get a lot of business from that, and then the other 30, 40 percent of the guys are big goose hunters that once in a while will take a sneak box out in the bay, or you know, we'll hunt some puddles around the area.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

Yeah, I it it's it's crazy that you know for for me that you say that. And like I that makes sense on the private, where you can, yeah, it's so much easier to and I say that too. Like, I don't I don't pheasant hunt anymore. I haven't gone out to a public land to pheasant hunt in years. I've almost got shot too many times to even uh attempt, you know. It's it's literally like a world, it's a war zone during during the public pheasant season.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

Most of our hunters are private ground hunters, they're not public.

SPEAKER_01 30:09

Makes makes sense. And also, I wouldn't if if I was one of these persons, I even if my dog wasn't trained and I just was like, you know, we're just gonna go to go. I don't want my dog being in that situation either. I I feel like I could have sworn or heard a story maybe in Jersey that a dog did get shot this year. I could have I could have sworn I heard something like that. Um I I I would lose it. I like I would lose it if somebody shot my dog.

SPEAKER_00 30:39

Oh,

How To Choose The Right Puppy

SPEAKER_00 30:40

yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:40

And like it's it's too much, it's too much of a risk. So that could that makes sense why there are a lot of clubs that yeah, and if I ever get the chance or if I ever get private property, yeah, I'd much rather just, hey, you know what, why don't we just go, you know, we me and the guys, we pull money together, we go get however many birds we want, we drop them down, and there you go. You could do a pheasant hunt on private land, on your own land, or at, you know, a club or or whatever it is, and you get your you get your birds, you get what you're paying for, and also you get to control the whole safety narrative. Every everybody's safe from the dog to to the hunters, and it's just a lot easier and I think a lot smarter situation if you can if you can do it.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

Absolutely. No, yeah, you you know who's in the field, and that's the biggest thing.

SPEAKER_01 31:37

Yeah, that I I have to agree with you on on that. Is there is it now when you're when you're you're training a dog and you get into the water section and the water part of the training, what does that kind of look like? And you know, I I always feel dogs, especially labs, they love water, they love to be in water, they're phenomenal swimmers and everything like that. Is it ever like sometimes I imagine sometimes a lot of times, especially because they're puppies, like is it like they get over excited and you really gotta hammer that like you can't move until like you know, whoever is is handling says, you know, gives the command and and something like that. How important is that, and kind of what what's that like when the when the water portion of the training?

SPEAKER_00 32:26

Absolutely, yeah. I mean the puppies you always have the puppy phase where they're trying to figure out how to swim, they can naturally do it, but they're splashing a bunch and they're they're moving, they're moving a little slow. Um, but that normally goes away pretty quick. So once you get through that, um, we do a lot of fun retrieves in the water to start, just get them really confident and um excited to be running through the bank and then taking a big old leap into the pond or the stream. So we work on that at a young age, and then once that's accomplished, again, we go to the field. We teach a lot of the retrieves on the field. Um, once in a while we'll go to the water for a type of retrieve because when you're teaching dogs in the water, they're moving slower when you think about it, because they're paddling. There's much more thought that goes into it for them versus just hammering across a field. Um so sometimes we'll take drills that they're moving too quick on, and we'll start with those in the water and kind of get them to slow down and focus a little more. So we'll go through that little phase, and then normally um we start working on steady work from there. And and our steady drills are it's hard because that splash of anything to a dog is super exciting and something that they really want to go at because they know that either means a tennis ball or a bird or you know, a bump or something like that. So we go through that and then we teach them steady to gunfire as well, where we teach them when they hear a bang, they need to sit. Um, and we teach that in the duck blind. We also teach in the upland field so that if they're running around and they hear bang, they know to either slow down or sit down to keep them safe. So we teach that in the duck blind, sit to the sit to the shot. Um, and then after that, we really start hammering kind of hunt simulations and really hammering, making sure that they're not moving until their name is said, um, because a steady dog in the blind is the best dog. Um, I'd rather have a steady dog that knows half as much than a dog that is unsteady and is an amazing dog out in the water. So a steady dog's a great dog, so we really focus on that the hunt simulations, and then best case scenarios, we get a month or so to hunt with them before they head home.

SPEAKER_01 34:50

I love that. And uh that's a uh is it does your program also have anything to like, you know? I know you guys are are training, most people will, you know, there'll be people that you know leave them, like you said in the beginning. Hey, take them, we'll get him when he's ready. Is there any like classes that you you guys offer for the handlers to to maybe the handlers come learn some some tactics or you know, something that they some things that they can get better at and as such as well?

SPEAKER_00 35:23

Yeah, no, we absolutely do. So I would say half of our business is educating the handlers. Um, we make a really big focus that if you bring your dog to us for training, we're also gonna train you once your dog goes home. So that ongoing relationship between me and them um is something that keeps on going. And to be honest with you, every year we probably have about 20% new clients because 80% of our client base is returning, um, which has been awesome as well. So we're kind of getting to the point where, I mean, I'm booked out till November at this point. Um, so when people are calling in for training, they have to wait that long. Um, and our goal is to get it to be kind of an exclusive group of people. So the way we also train our group and with the way we also stay involved with local handlers is outside of training the people that bring their dogs to us, we train the handlers on Friday nights with an advanced gun dog class and then Sunday mornings with a started dog class. Um, the advanced gun dog class has about 10 spots in total that we try to fill, and then the puppy class is um just about 10 as well. So we fill both of those um for the month, and then those group of people stick around. And honestly, most of the people stay the entire summer

Starting A Gun Dog Business In NJ

SPEAKER_00 36:45

and uh use it as a great way to keep their dogs tuned up for next hunting season.

SPEAKER_01 36:49

Yeah, I I imagine that's that's pretty important there too, is you know, keeping it's a well-oiled machine, you know. It's the same thing with the hunter, you know. You look at from bow hunting to everything, like you you want to practice, you want to do this, you want to do that, workout, whatever. It's the same thing the dog keep them keep them going. Um, you know, for for anyone that say is living maybe outside of obviously outside Jersey. Let's let's we'll we'll talk about Jersey here. You know, we'll say people are maybe Maine or some type of state where they can, they don't have that in their in their state available, they can't come down to to come see you. What are some things that they can do at home, you know, to to help keep, you know, maybe the their dogs, you know, tuned up and and for themselves too, or maybe some little pointers that they can learn, you know, kind of on their own.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

So just to be completely honest with you, I'll make a sales pitch um for a book that I read a long time ago. And it's also the book that the guys at Wild Rose wrote. Um, it's called The Riley, the Wild Rose Way, and it's a coffee table book, but that book taught me how to train dogs. It runs through a very simple approach that truly works for 98% of all dogs out there. Um, and that is what I would tell anybody to go towards is that book. That's a great one. Um, another thing that I would say, again, I don't get any money for saying this. Um, these are just some really good programs out there. Um, another great one out there is Retriever Roadmap. It's an online program. Um, they sell monthly subscriptions that are not that expensive. They're, I want to say they're like 30, 50 bucks, something like that. Um, and he he really gives quite a bit of detail and walks you through a lot of the basics and uh just does a nice job of laying things out. So those would be the two ways that I would kind of direct somebody to, you know, keep the dog tuned up and keep on learning.

SPEAKER_01 38:53

Yeah, yeah. That makes that makes sense. I mean, I I think eventually, I think a lot of us, you know, that's always I feel like that's that's always one of the big goals is to to eventually get a dog and then to be able to train the dog to to hunt and you know go with you and retrieve and do all different types of stuff. I know the big, you know, it's also popular to dogs for for blood tracking for for deer and everything like that as well. Um, you know, I I feel they're they're man's best friend. There's so much you can do with them. You know, it's it's something that yeah, I think I think almost every outdoorsman wants to eventually, you know, get into. Um so I I think it's a that's a it's a big learning curve too, because you don't if you're not if you don't know somebody, I I think, especially in the like the waterfowl game, and I'm you know, outside of just regular hunting, you know, waterfowl upland, like it it's a it's a niche that's harder to to get into because yet again, what we talked about earlier, so much that goes into it. Um you know, and and the whole training aspect and what to do when you know I could go see, you know, go to a you know, to go pick up a dog, and I wouldn't know what to ask for prior to to this of like, you know, I need I need to see the parents, like seeing the parents are one of the, you know, one of the top things. Like I would have never have known that, and your normal person wouldn't. And that's where yet again, a lot of probably the mistakes happen and and all these things, and you know, loud noises and doing doing all these things, but you know, for you, the joy of of doing this, you know, when you look at your you know, the Instagram page and all the hunts and you know the time, did you ever think that like wow, this is this turned out way better than I thought? You know, I mean, like the the pictures are are just absolutely incredible and and so professionally done and everything like that, and you get to travel around and do all these things. So, like, is there ever like you get to sit back and be like, this is my life, and I get to do this every single day.

SPEAKER_00 41:11

I mean, I will say this work is still work. So there's certain days that you wake up and you're like, Oh, I do not feel like going out there, but you do. Um, but I would say 95% of the time, I'm A, able to sit back and say, Holy smokes, I'm really lucky I get a takeoff when I want to to go hunting during season and take dogs with me, and that's training. Um, so that is something I'm very fortunate about is the lifestyle and um all the different opportunities that's led to, whether it's hunting around the US or people I've met. Um it's been a big, big, big blessing. But the biggest thing that I would say sit back and I'm kind of amazed at is just how the right people have fallen into place at the right time. Um, for a big example, you're talking about the photography on my page. That's my best friend Alex. I met him, he was the first guy I met moving to Wantage coming back from Texas. First one. And I was like mind-blown because look at the pictures he takes. Um ever since then, he and I have been best buddies, traveling, doing different things together. And um, and then when it comes to just different part-time workers and people like that that are just great, great people. Um, it's definitely been special just kind of sitting back and saying, like, I couldn't have done it without them. And on top of that, it's amazing that they came into the time they did um when I needed them. So it was yeah, those are kind of the two things.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

Yeah. Um, I definitely want to get into to some of the questions for you personally, for you hunting and and and everything like that. Um what's what's your favorite time of the time of the season to hunt? I know outside of work, and when you you know, when you get to go and you know, is it early season? Is it duck? Is it goose? Um, what is your favorite time, your favorite bird to to go after? Or you know, you could love to deer hunt too, which I don't know how much you do, sure. Uh you know, but like what what what's your favorite favorite for you?

SPEAKER_00 43:26

My favorite times would be September early goose because everybody's just jazzed up at that point to get out there and just go waterfowling anyway. So September Goose is definitely up there for me, and then I would say the late season northern Jersey zone is awesome because that goes which is five, right? Five yes, exactly. It goes from three to five. Um, which for me it's just awesome because it's more reps for the dogs.

SPEAKER_01 43:53

Yeah, it won it went for for us, it went from this year one to five, which was a huge. killer for us um which i I think we only got out

Upland Skills That Help Waterfowl

SPEAKER_01 44:05

I think we only went out one time this year um just because it just wasn't wasn't worth it but I heard next year we're going back to we're going back to three from from what I hear uh next year and also you guys got all the snow this year I mean we we all got the snow I'm in you know northern jersey so I I got we got hit pretty hard with snow I imagine hunting goose in the snow when it's actively snowing whatever is a whole different type of level of beauty and and breathtaking I imagine the dogs um I remember the the picture I think you guys have it on your page too of of uh Brian Melvin's dog from Timberlife Outdoors yeah and it's just it's yeah it's all I it's one of my favorite pictures of you know the dog is just it's got uh pulled it up right here you know it has the the ice and everything all around it and it's you know yeah I I talked about this with him his episode's coming out I think in the next week or or so it's like the dog loved it like it the dog had so much fun and that's what I think a lot of people also don't realize these are like oh like poor dog it's cold it's it's like no they love it they live they live and die for this like they love this and it's funny you say that too because like I have a Daisy she grew up in Texas yeah she does not like when the water gets cold oh she is my she is my field dog she runs perfectly geese in the winter snow she's great till that water hits about 28 degrees and then she is absolutely done and then all my other girls you know no problem because they are raised up in this part of the country so they were used to the the cold cold water and they're and they're great with it so it's it's just so funny again these dogs are so you know everyone's yeah that's that's so that yeah it's like you said earlier they're they're like humans because it's like you take somebody from Texas and you bring them all the way out here they're gonna hate winter like they're not gonna enjoy the winter you know I mean like I'm gonna go probably you know soon beach the beach season's about to hit the water is going to be cold but it's compared to Texas and like some of these other states in the south like I this is freezing. Like it it's 90 degrees right now down there. Yeah it it it's so crazy and I I I've never thought about that too with a dog like I always just assume that hey like labs and stuff like hey no matter what they're gonna they're gonna love it and everything like that but no once it gets to a certain temperature like that's yeah it's it's crazy that um that's what uh that's how she is yep yep absolutely she's my September goose dog and my field dog and then she's good so what is what has it been like you know what not what has it been like but the ducks the geese so have you what's your list looking like of of your kill count have you killed almost every duck out there have you have you especially ducks there's way more obviously ducks you know with with geese there there isn't your your species as much but like kind of what is your your trophy look room look for you personally with with the geese that you are the ducks that you've harvested very um to be completely honest with you it's funny I have buddies here talking about they want to you know do every species they want to cross them off the list they want to go on certain trips to do certain ones I have zero desire to count species I could shoot greenheads all day long I could shoot Gadawa all day long um pintails whatever whatever have it be that flies in I'm really happy with my trophy room is very dependent on the dogs um so I mean I have one of Daisy Daisy's first becklebelly goose she picked up I've got that mounted um I've got a lesser picked up that was Sammy's first lesser um stuff like that you know what I mean I I really find that stuff a lot more meaningful than the biggest Mohawk on a on a Drake Woody um yeah so that's what I find really meaningful so that's what I would say is most of my trophy room and then just a ton of sheds that the dogs have found and things like that. Yeah yeah um that that's I mean that's that's a whole is it something that just goes hands in hand in hand with the sheds like it's not something that I've heard people train their dogs for sheds and everything like that but because you guys are focusing on you know all the waterfowl stuff and everything like that is it just so these dogs are just so tuned in that hey they just naturally come across sheds and and and they find them um you definitely have to train a little bit for just for the type of scent that they're looking for.

SPEAKER_00 49:08

So you definitely need to train a little bit um but I would say that once you kind of teach them to put their nose down and really look around and start to hunt hard they pick up on that stuff super quick and they know the command so we just start teaching them a different scent to look for um you can go as crazy as you want I know a guy out in Ohio who's um I mean national champion shed dogs phenomenal labs that do it and then you can have guys like us where all of our people are hunters so but I like to take my girls out a couple days a year and we come back with four or five you know we probably cat get 20 of them a year.

SPEAKER_01 49:47

And yeah just something to put on the mantle gotcha yeah and it's something to do you know and in that you know basically in the off season and everything like that. So no that's that's incredible is there is there anywhere specific you I know you you said you know it's not at least with the species but is there anywhere you where you would like to go with you know with your dog

Water Work Steady To Shot

SPEAKER_01 50:10

and you know a certain state or something like that or is Jersey just you know you're happy in in Jersey or is do you have like that bucketless state where it's like it's so beautiful breathtaking there I'd love to take the dog there work the dog in a in a certain state or or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 50:27

I would say most of those states I have crossed off the only state that I really really only states I really want to get to are North and South Dakota. I would love to get there and then at some point in my career I'd love to get a dog into Canada and go do Saskatchewan or something along those lines.

SPEAKER_01 50:50

Canada would be would be amazing I mean I I've heard about the Dakotas and and everything like that and obviously but you don't I I think you forget how overshadowed and I don't want to say I I'm gonna say overshadowed because yet again I'm not like that big of I'm a deer hunter. I'm a bear hunter sure you know moose everything you look at what Canada has to offer and it kind of gets I think overlooked it's a wild west of to to the birds yeah um oh yeah you know and Canada has everything like it you you know they literally do but I imagine their waterfowl hunting is yet again breathtaking and and phenomenal as well because a lot of those birds are coming down to to us anyway.

SPEAKER_00 51:39

It's one of the only places that guarantees limits which is a crazy thing.

SPEAKER_01 51:48

It's and to even hear that is yet again it's so shocking because you just yet again like hey you want to go moose hunting hey we can we can go up to you know we can go to Canada you know if you go far enough you can you can probably find caribou you know um big big giant bears and then the fishing and everything like that but yeah and it's it's one of those things what a just beautiful country for for just the outdoors and and everything like that. But what is for you it's you know we're we're in that spring you know are you going out and doing any turkey turkey hunting for for yourself or anything like that or you not a turkey guy I probably will get out I probably will get out a a day or two this week more a day or two okay yeah I'll probably jump out there yeah I see him around it's that type of thing there's quite a few around this year it seems um so yeah I'll get out there and try my luck we'll see what happens yeah I've done it before yeah we'll make for the most part it's you're you're still training you're still working with the dogs and everything like that obviously work is work's number one number one priority and you know it it lacks on the the personal uh hunting time you you you ever almost all of us have and everything like that in in their life um you know great thing about this time of year is we can train both sides the day so we can train in the morning or in the evening and and what does that look like and and this will where we'll we'll start winding down um you know kind of what does that look like for for the dogs especially like you know you're training them in the day you're training in the evening um are you running are you sometimes doing classes or you're you're getting dogs in that maybe didn't run in the morning and they're just training in the evening or or what's the case kind of how how that works as as well and how much of are breaks important for the for the dogs too as well of not being overworked sure sure sure sure um I would say that I would say that depending on either side of the day you know let's say we're training in the evening I like training in the evening to be honest with you that's my preferred time so on those days we're probably getting the dogs out and airing them right around 7 30 in the morning getting everybody stretch their legs letting them swim if they want to letting them just run around be dogs you know what I mean um have a good time so we do that and then um dogs that eat breakfast some of my personal dogs are once a day so they get fed in the evening time um but we have a lot of dogs that come for training that you know just once in the morning once in one evening so we'll feed them after they run around give them some downtime and then normally around lunchtime we'll give them another airing let them cruise around all together do a little obedience at that point um and then probably around four or five o'clock head down to the kennel and um or the dogs that are at the house and start putting them all together and getting ready and getting out there starting to train and spend a little time in the field um till it gets dark and then everybody back to the kennel feed dinner and turn out the lights for bed it's it's crazy it's it's literally like boarding school it's you know it's it's reminds

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SPEAKER_01 55:20

me of like yeah what yeah there's there it's just like all right you got this you got this this is your class this is this is what you guys you guys have a little bit of free time you know breakfast who who who has it and then yeah everyone dinner then it's it's lights out um yep you know it it's for and and I am asking so many questions and it's crazy like some of the people who've been listening to us like well I've never had him really it's very rare that I ask this many questions but I know nothing I know I know nothing about this you know what I mean um so I'm trying to I'm trying to uh yeah and uh you know for our listeners I don't know how many are gonna be listening where you know they know as as much and everything like that you know are there days you know get again just like how how a human to be sick or you know you're not feeling well or anything it's like all right this dog maybe needs like a a re like a full rest day or um something like that where you know obviously if they eat something or or in that realm there where their stomach is no good you know kind of how how's that go um of when you're determining what to do with maybe a dog that that's under the weather get a vet in there or or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 56:38

Yeah the biggest thing for me is always I mean just like you said just like with kids little things like that um if you see something that's just a little bit off start keeping an eye on it. I mean a good example is a dog just the other day um it was swimming in the water with us training hard doing great went home um with its owners after a lesson the owner wanted to bring its dog back to me today um and I said no let's give it a break because over the course of being home for the past day and a half um his tail was hurting you know he had a little bit of he had a little bit of limber tail from swimming too hard in the water and um little stuff like that we'll run into where it's like you know hey yeah take a breather break and if that means they're here with me or if that means they're at home um it's kind of up to the owner but a lot of owners will kind of say hey it's a good excuse to have them home for two or three days we'll take them and then I enjoy that too because it takes I'm a big fan of you know listen to your vet and I'm happy to take any dog to the vet that needs to go to the vet. Absolutely but if they're at home I appreciate it because A, they're going back to the normal vet they're going to and they trust that vet and it kind of puts the the power back in the owner's hands. So we do have a vet that we work with that travels down to do stuff on site and things like that um which is a big help and and and awesome to have but uh yeah a couple days off is never a bad thing.

SPEAKER_01 58:11

Yeah right uh that's that's for that's for anybody you know all of us out there who who are who are working you know so hard and everything like that uh to to pay the bills like yeah it's having having some you know days off every once in a while is is a is a great thing. Um uh last one for you was there a hunt this year that really stuck out to you uh you know that that was kind of you looking back was your favorite hunt or favorite training you know uh uh you know day training or something like that where kind of like everything just connected and went perfectly well I would say it was the opening day of September goose for me this past year.

SPEAKER_00 58:55

Um I was not the one who had the location nothing along those lines but it was kind of a neat moment just because one of my first ever clients invited me on the hunt and they had their dog with them who is one of the first puppies we've ever had and he was of age where he could kind of run the show and um I had Daisy with me which was fun and the birds just worked perfectly they worked awesome and it was just special because I got to share the hunt with them I got to share the hunt with my dog um the view was great where we were at the people were a blast and uh yeah it was just kind of a full circle moment. So I would say opening day September.

SPEAKER_01 59:39

Yeah no that that makes sense I I fully understand where you're at and then I have I have patients I you know I work child psych and and behavioral and um I've had patients I've known since six years old and then you know I've I've been there for eight years so some of them are now full full fledged adults so they'll some of them will DM me like hey you know I I turn my life around you know um you know one of my one of my patients is like yeah I'm in nursing school you know I gotta I have you know have a kid and you know I'm doing very well and I'm very happy and and it's like all right

Favorite Hunts Goals And Sign Off

SPEAKER_01 1:00:15

like it puts a smile on your face because yeah it's a it's a full circle moment where it's like all right like it worked out everything and you get to sit there and and see how well they do and how they're doing it and everything like that. Absolutely yeah it it brings a smile to your face so Ben I I really appreciate you coming out uh I know you you just got done trading and everything like that. It's probably you know you're exhausted probably getting ready for for dinner and everything like that maybe even still have to to feed the dogs and everything like that. So I'll let you get going here. We truly appreciate you coming out um you know if we have any other questions um any listeners if you guys have any questions please hit them up you know Ben even when I hit him up he got back to us real right away real quick um you know and I hope you know everyone enjoyed this episode because you know what this is was a big eye opener for for even for myself um and everything like that so we we all hope you you guys enjoyed this episode any any last words Ben um no thank you for having me on uh very excited about this coming season if anybody has anything that they need to reach out to us for Instagram definitely is the best spot um we're at rock and be gun dogs is our handle so definitely reach out if you have any questions otherwise happy hunting and thanks for having me yep everyone thank you guys so much the link to to the Instagram will be down in the description below um and we'll see you guys next time thank you sir thank you man