Cold Open And Show Setup

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Everyone has a moment in the window changes. And in that stories, you realize you're not chasing the change. You're chasing something that you can see. Where we go beyond the signs, the children, deep into the stories that feel the fires. The show is for the ones who sleep over the rise, who hate miles into the children's change, which the change for the signs before the shiny, countries, for the bad rows. We live for the thrill. This is more than a podcast. This is the start of something real. Let's chase it.

Quinton Returns And Competition Shooting

SPEAKER_00 1:03

What's up, everyone? And we are back, and we got one of our guys back on. He's he was on the Garden State Outdoors podcast back in 2024. He's a great friend of friend of ours. Um Quinton. Welcome back to well, welcome to the Chase the Unknown podcast. Good to have you. Yeah, thanks for having me back. Can't wait to do it. Uh of course, brother. You know, and one of what what we're talking about before, one of my all-time favorite stories on the podcast comes comes from you. I mean, just an absolute crazy story. Anyone who has not listened to it, it involves a wolf who don't want to give away too much. But if you go to dangerous encounters and big game in Wisconsin with Fall Draw Pursuit, you will find that episode and you know exactly what we're talking about. Um, yeah, just a just amazing time. But it's been a couple years. What what have you been up to, brother?

SPEAKER_02 2:08

Uh, just hunting, scouting, same old, same old. Got back into our tree shoots. I found out that I don't like doing the archery shoots anymore. So this will probably be the last year that I compete.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

What what is it? So, what is it? So you're you're competing, you're doing the shoots. Well, like what goes into that? Um, um, it's kind of why you don't like why you you you have this may be the last year.

SPEAKER_02 2:32

Um, so it's all ASA style shoots. So you have your upper and lower 12s, and then you know, everything else around that's 10, 8, 5, and a zero miss is a zero. And I just found that like I used to compete when I was younger, and I did really well with it and everything like that. Got out of it and decided last year to get back into it with a buddy of mine. And um, I did decent last year. I figured this year I'd do probably really well, and just the whole competing standpoint of it, like the targets are designed for points and not for where you hit the animal. So, like, I'm used to hitting them, you know, close to that right behind that shoulder. And hey, that's not points, that's like an eight or something like that. So and then it gets me all you know flustered and frustrated and stuff like that. So I'm like, yeah, I'm just gonna keep my archery shoots fun when there's no money on the line.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It it's a I what I've noticed for for myself, and something that's very frustrating for me is like when I go and say sight in a new bow or a new sight or whatever, whatever the case is, and you know, you have the circle and you gotta, you know, get hit it, you know, you want to get as tight as possible. And like, yeah, I get it for sighting your bow and everything like that, but once you're done with that, like I can't shoot at all at targets like that. I don't do well at shooting at targets like that. Like, I need to have a you know, either shoot a 3D target, or now I buy um these paper cutout targets that has a deer and and everything like that. So it's realistic, and you know, shooting at that, it's like, all right, like, yeah, I'm an excellent shot again. Shooting at something where you're you're supposed to ring it and and everything like that. I I definitely understand um how you feel on that.

SPEAKER_02 4:29

Yeah, it's definitely a game changer, really. And you have to be you have to be comfortable with yourself shooting in an uncomfortable scenario. Like, yeah, you're shooting with people, but it's people like the circuit I'm in right now. It's I only know a handful of people from it. I don't know a lot of people in it, so it's like it's all strangers, and you get nervous around strangers, and you don't want to look dumb, and then all of a sudden you shoot and you're like, holy wow, who let me have my bow today?

SPEAKER_00 5:03

Um, you know, but but I do see like uh a post from from 10 weeks ago, yeah, you did pretty good, and you got yourself uh quite some good money there.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

Yeah, my buddy and I entered in. It was a team shoot, and I always tell my buddy, I said, if you need an anchor, like I'm your guy. Like you need a consistent shooter and someone that's gonna throw up a middle of the road score. Definitely I'm your guy. And yeah, the number one team we shot against was next to us. So we were trying not to pay attention to what they scored, and we ended up at the end of the shoot asking them what they shot, and we they told us a combined score of 724. And I looked at my buddy and he looked at me, and I'm like, we beat them. And he's like, Yep, we just have to figure out what third place the people that shot a couple stations behind us, and they ended up shooting a 696, and we shot a 725. So we beat the number one team by a point and brought home twelve hundred dollars and we split between the two of us.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

So I I mean that that's gotta feel like you know, you're outside of season and everything like that. I mean, maybe quite not like your typical adrenaline rush, but is it's in a way it's still gonna be good practice of shooting with pressure and everything like that. And you feel really imagine really accomplished when you come in first.

SPEAKER_02 6:26

Yeah, yeah, it it was definitely fun. It was uh an experience that I'll probably never forget. It was just an all-around good time, and you know, talking with everybody and staying focused with my partner and stuff like that. And it was just a fun time.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Yeah, no, I I I completely get that. Now, how um I know a couple years ago you're having some trouble with the shoulder and everything like that. Yep. Um, you were shooting, I think not this season, last season. I think you you shot the crossbow, you tried shooting the compound, and I think you had to switch back to the crossbow. But now that you're obviously you're into the competitions and everything like that, I think you went the full

Winning Under Pressure With A Team

SPEAKER_00 7:10

season shooting the compound this year. Obviously, correct me if I'm wrong, and you freaking were lights out, and you were knocking things down uh real well this year. So every everything feels good and everything like that. Yeah, my back.

SPEAKER_02 7:24

It was my back and my shoulders, but mainly my back. And um, I I obviously was involved in a really nasty car accident back in 2021, so it really screwed me up for a few years, and I didn't ever think I was gonna be able to pull my bow back and be comfortable with it again. It took a very long time, but you know, I started you know, ultimately I ended up found out that I'm diabetic, so I had to change diet and yeah, I had to change my diet and stuff, and so I've lost a few pounds, but it's ultimately it's really helped me with my back. And you know, like you said, like last fall was my best archery season. I yeah, I uh I put some deer down last year with my bow.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

Yeah, yeah. And you know, for those of you who don't know, like we're we have like this friendly hunting competition that that we host and everything like that. We'll be going on I think what year four, I think this year coming coming up. I think so. Um, you know, but yeah, Quentin really really knocked it out the park. And I think you started, if I'm not mistaken, I think you started it off, you know, with one of the first, like one of the first year, if not the first year, I think one of the first first year and everything like that. Shot that giant doe, right?

SPEAKER_02 8:39

Yeah, I shot so our opening last year was I think September 16th, and I shot my first year last year on September 15th, 45 minutes into my open my bow opener right away in the morning. And then I ended up shooting another. I wish I would have shot in my second one in in the later seasons because she would have been pushing some pretty serious weight. But that, yeah, that big one in October 25th, I think that one that one was a beast. I thought that one had a rack on its head when it was coming in, and it did not.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

Yeah, no, I'm pretty sure this is this is the picture here. Uh she dressed 161.

SPEAKER_02 9:25

Yes, dressed 161, live weight 200 pounds.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Yeah, and a just looks like a cow elk.

SPEAKER_02 9:36

Literally does. Yeah, she she was a hefty one, and unfortunately, she ended up um dying down in a valley, and I had to drag her back up the hill, and that was uh uh that one was uh pretty tough to get out.

SPEAKER_00 9:51

No, I listen, I I give you tons of credit because that's that's that's a big deer, you know. And there's yet again that's that's pushing you know bucks and everything like that. Wheat and you know, um that is a yeah, what a what an absolute hunt and uh yeah, so so happy for you. And you know, things are are feeling better, and you know, unfortunately the news of of you know diabetes and everything and everything, but this hunting lifestyle also helps you. I imagine, you know, eating the you know the lean meat and and everything like that and staying active like like we do and and everything like that definitely helps you know helps you through this process. Yep, yeah, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_02 10:32

I found I found myself now that I hunt like 99% of the time hunting public land, I've I found myself walking the public lands pretty much every weekend, like looking for new areas or looking at areas that I hunt and stuff like that. I think the one day I walked six and a half miles in eight hours through the woods, and I just I didn't realize that I was gone that long. And I'm like, oh man, I've been gone all day walking in the woods.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

Yeah, the the the wife and and everyone's like, Hey, um, are you missing? Do I need to send out a search party? Like, what's going on? Yeah, Bill. Um, you know, and for for your for you in Wisconsin, like, and I think what? So you guys are allowed what one buck, two bucks.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

So here in Wisconsin, you get one buck on your archery tag, and then you get one buck on your gun tag. So technically we're a two buck state, but if you go off of licenses, you're a one buck per per tag.

SPEAKER_00 11:36

Okay, and then what what is that look? I I know we've gone over before, and I've gone over with Connor and everything like that, but keeping all these rules in my head, and then what is it for dose?

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SPEAKER_02 12:19

So that is county specific, depending on like where you're at. So, like where my one spot is, it's in a central forest zone. So that one

(Cont.) Winning Under Pressure With A Team

SPEAKER_02 12:29

you have to queue up online or stand in line in a store. And when uh the certain time of the year, it's like the towards the end of August, it's usually around like the 20th to the 24th, is when all of our dough tags go on sale, and the central forest zones go first. So that's uh you get in line and pray that you're one of the lucky people that get a dough tag for private or public, but then like if you hunt your farmland zones, depending on which farmland you're in, uh, they give you free dough tags. So, like the county I hunt, the one county I hunt, you get free dough four free dough tags off of for your archery tag, and then if you buy your gun tag for the same county, you get an additional four tags. So, like last year I had uh 12 dough tags, and I filled and I had I filled half of them. Oh, that's pr that's good. Yeah, I filled almost, I think half of them.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

Yeah, you and I because I know you you shot one at least one with the gun. I know I know that, right? Uh I shot two with my shotgun. Two with the shotgun. Okay, cool. Yeah, I I like I said, killer, killer year for for yourself and everything like that. And yeah, um, you know, you you did some traveling, went to Ohio, went out to the camp out there. How was that your first second time in in Ohio, right? My second, my second year hunting in Ohio. Because the first year was two years ago. You went with Squatch and and them as as well, right? Oh map stem.

unknown 14:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

What what was it like, you know, from going from Wisconsin to Ohio, going to a whole new land, um, you know, kind of on

Injury Recovery And Better Health

SPEAKER_00 14:15

unknown territory for yourself. I know you, you know, you had um, you know, buddies there and it and everything like that, but for you, what what was that going out and doing an out-of-state hunt for you? Oh, it was actually really exciting and also nerve-wracking.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

One nerve-wracking because it's something new, it's different, it's not your normal. So I was like nervous for it. And then I was also excited because for the same reasons, it's new, it's different, it's not something familiar to me. So, like the type of terrain I hunt here in Wisconsin, depending on where I'm hunting, isn't the same as what I hunt in in Ohio. Ohio, it's you know, that start of that appalachian chain of mountains and the rolling hills, and you know, oak trees on every dang ridge and in the valleys and stuff. Makes it tough, right? Yeah, it's it was very tough. And like last year, I was spoiled, and I ended up harvesting a dough early, and I harvested this buck. Um, um like within the first three days of my trip. So I I got spoiled to the Ohio hunting, and I went back this past fall with like a hundred percent like I'm I'm getting a deer, I'm getting my dad a deer. Now we're gonna have a heck of a time. And July rolled around, and I was you know, e-scouting and everything like that, and all of a sudden they seen a story pop up that the Ohio DNR released that they've been hit with EHD. And I don't I can't run I can run cell cameras out there, but like the service out there in the hills and the mountains, it's terrible. So you like we weren't getting service for cell cams, so we were running SD cams, and it was just the hunting from this past fall to the 2024 season was completely different. Like I had barely any deer on camera. Um it was just that we weren't sure if we were gonna get hit in the area I hunt, and then it ultimately ended up getting hit, but we don't know how bad just because of the vast terrain and not being able to like get everywhere and look at you know, find anything. But I um started to get pictures of some deer on my one cell camera I put out there 4th of July, and nothing real big. And I'm like, man, all my big ones are dead, like they got hit with THT, you know, whatever. And then a couple bucks that I had history with in 2024 showed up and they did not disappoint. Uh, one buck was like 180 inches, got him on camera a lot, and then he moved two miles to the west to my buddy's farm, and he hung out there for a while, and then deer season came around, and we're texting back and forth. We're like, hey, where'd that big one going? Right. He's like, I don't know. He was on the Ohio Bull Hunters page on Facebook and saw the picture of him pop up with a hunter, and it was his neighbor who ended up getting him. Oh man, and then I had a really heavy eight, I called him heavy duty. He had beer can bases, the webbing on him was just immaculate. He disappeared, so I'm hoping he didn't get hit with the EHD, but he just vanished. I had a bunch of nice bucks, like one buck I really wanted this year. Last year or two years ago in 2024, we figured he was about 170, 180. This year or this past fall, he blew up. He was damn near 200 inches. And I was getting him religiously on camera, and I'm it was slow hunting. And I told my dad, middle of October, I'm like, I got a spot for you. We're gonna take your stand down, we're gonna move it to that spot. We get out there mid-morning, slept in that morning, get out there mid-morning. The exact tree where I wanted my dad to sit, that deer, that big one, was 20 yards from it at 10:30 in the morning. Oh, and I'm like, he had that deer had no idea we were there, had no idea. We were about 60 yards from him, and I told my dad, I said, get your crossbow cocked and ready. Like I'm like, if you can get a shot at this deer, take him. And I did not realize that there were does coming up the ridge right at us, and they took off running, and he followed them, and but he had no idea. And then I ended up pushing in on a finger, and I'm halfway up the tree, and I'm locking in my stand. And guess who's laying at the finger of that ridge that my dad's hunting on? Him. I'm 20 yards up a tree, 20 yards from him, up a tree, hanging on, and he's laying there. And I get set up, pull back on him because I figured he was gonna see me, and the the shadow must have casted weird over the top of him. Yeah, boom, he was gone. Didn't never he was gone. So it was just it was definitely a frustrating trip out there this year. I had fun hunting with my dad, was able to make my schedule change and go back in the middle of November for kind of the tail end of the rut, but the Bucks were still

Wisconsin Tags Public Land Miles

SPEAKER_02 19:50

really hot on on those and stuff like that, and I ended up missing a really nice seven-point because the deer here in Wisconsin, they jump your shots 99.9% of the time, and that deer did not jump the string, and I gave him a nice haircut going where he should have been dead, but he didn't drop, brother.

SPEAKER_00 20:13

I I feel you on that. I had that same exact situation happen with me with a 10-point. I don't know if you saw the video or not. Yeah, I did see that video, and yet again, like you would think that he was gonna drop into the shot. He freaking bounced out when I met at him, and you know, he's at 47, 50 yards, and you put it right where you you it should be, and then and it's it's that crazy thing. And you know, I I remember talking about it when it happened, is your whole life, especially bow hunting. You know, you look at your whole career and you're kind of trained to think that deer are always gonna drop. They're always gonna drop, they're always gonna drop. Like, that's what you hear constantly. And then when it doesn't happen, it's a big like shock. And then you you like you go into the situation of like, okay, like now what now what do I do? Like, do I prepare for a deer not to drop, or do I prepare for a deer to drop? Like, where do the odds still stack in your in your favor? You know what I mean? Like, you know, I imagine a lot of people would would probably say, like, no, you still prepare for that for that drop, but like, yeah, like in Wisconsin, yeah, you gotta prepare for that drop, but maybe where you were in Ohio, maybe it's it's it's just not the same, you know. It's I don't know. Um it's it's a it's a tough one. That's why I always try to shoot deer as close as I can. I shot my buck like a week and a half later at like five yards, and you know, you don't you don't have to worry about drop at that point.

SPEAKER_02 21:48

Right, exactly. Yeah, like almost all of my deer this year in Wisconsin. I shot with my bow, the farthest harvest that I had this year with my bow was 25 yards, and that was my first dough. But then everything else that I harvested after that dough was eight yards.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

Cool, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

That's so like yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Go ahead. It it it's I don't know, like for bow hunting, like I think it's yeah, like don't get me wrong, like yeah, 2025, it's cool, it's still a very close shot, but like, yeah, the closer it is, like I don't know, it just it makes the hunt so much better, and it just that now.

SPEAKER_02 22:33

produces your uh your skills of everything else was perfectly right and I think that's like one of the most important things obviously practicing practicing practicing shooting is extremely important but not moving scent control thermals you know all those things go into that factor of sometimes yeah sometimes you get an itch or like you you slightly move and a deer sees you and and you know that it's just one of those cases but like shooting a deer at five eight ten fifteen yards I think is a bigger accomplishment than shooting like 30 40 or 50 50 yards out yeah and like that big though it was cold it was our first cold snap in October the end of October it was like 60 degrees the day before and that night it dropped and this when the sun came up it was like 25 28 degrees and there was like a nice frost on the ground and it was like the textbook warning of that you knew something was going to die almost in a way like you just knew it was just right and everything like that and I happened to see her come in and she come in like they always do right behind a big cedar tree right in front of me and they usually wrap around and they come right in and then they don't look up because I'm up 20 feet in this big big oak tree and it's got fingers everywhere and it's just big and they had no idea I was there well she when she came out from the backside of that cedar she was almost acting like she was going to go to my next window at 20 yards so I was looking watching watching and I pulled back well when I pulled back in the time of me pulling back she turned and was facing directly towards me and she was at like 10 nine 10 yards and she stopped and I was like uh oh and I'm at full draw aiming at 20 yards for to my 20 yard hole and I'm like how do I do this without her like completely losing her her behind and getting out of here and blowing and she kind of looked around and I took advantage of that and I quick dipped I stayed seated I quick dipped my hips moved everything over and I'm anchored right on her and that's when she was like nope something's not right in that tree and she was hard quartering to me and I put it in the base of her neck and it came up the offside shoulder and she took it like a champ and made it like I don't know 150 200 yards and then but yeah it was just a crazy hunt and then 15 minutes after I shot her I shot an eight point love it that's uh that's a that's a hell of a hell of a time um you know and you know when you shot that ape eight point go go over that story so like what what exactly happened in that situation so I um it was cold enough and I texted a couple of my buddies said hey I just shot an absolute unit of a doe and it's cold enough I'm gonna let her lay I'm gonna sit till about 10 o'clock I'm like it's cold it's not gonna get I think the warmest it was gonna get that day was like 40 and I'm like well I could leave this deer lay all day and be completely fine and my buddy's like yeah it's that time of the year you just never know what's gonna show up so I'm sitting there and I don't even have an arrow knocked and all of a sudden I heard like a quake break behind me and I look and there's just just he's not nothing real special just a nice size body buck with a nice small tight basket rack and my goal is eight points or better on public land he fit that criteria and he was behind me and then just vanished in the thick stuff I'm like yeah whatever so I'm sitting there realized that I don't have an arrow knocked and I knock another arrow get the drop away tipped up my QAD up in the upright position and all of a sudden I look down and this deer's come like five yards underneath me and I'm like oh all right where'd you come from like it was this that same deer and I had a mock rope hanging there and he goes straight to it it was textbook slightly quartering away I'm already on an adrenaline rush because I just hammered this dough and I'm like heck why not let's let's let him have it you know so I get my bow and I pull back and I settle the pin and he has no care in the world and I shoot well I didn't move my left leg and my bottom cam did a complete cycle over the top of my knee and that

Ohio Whitetails EHD And Close Calls

SPEAKER_02 27:25

arrow like did some weird contorted stuff.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

Eight yards it hit him but I'm shooting the rec hxp twos and that slap cut I won't go into detail because it it was a gnarly hit but it when it hit when that broadhead hit him it like opened him up like he take a knife to a string that's taut and cut it and it opened him wide open and everything you know yeah fell well I'm pretty sure you sent the picture in the group in the yeah right it was a gnarly very gnarly cut.

SPEAKER_02 28:03

Yeah so like it was like almost his whole side had opened up and he stood at 50 yards no idea what happened and he took a couple more bounds I couldn't get another shot so I let him go and I mean I had great blood well then he got into the one big open metal that's a hundred yards from me and I just I didn't feel comfortable once I lost the blood like you know we always say when in doubt back out kind of deal and I let him lay for I don't know another few hours went back in I did took care of my dough went back in retracked him found some more blood out in the meadow decided I'm gonna back out again because I could not from the last point of blood I could not find anything and I'm like all right well I'll back out went back a few hours later and I'm like I have a feeling I know where this deer is I'm looking at onyx and I'm like he had to have gone straight through this meadow down into this bowl and then back up the other side and I'm like he has to be in there but just seeing what was hanging out of him I'm like I don't know if this deer is dead I don't know if I've caught anything vital I don't I don't know because there was nothing laying there the blood looked really good but I just wasn't sure and uh let him lay called a dog tracker told him what happened he's like I'll come out in the morning and I'm like okay so it was a long sleepless night my buddy and I were tempted to just go look for him in the dark we're like he agreed with me he figured that deer was gonna be there the dog comes out the dog had to work it a few times the dog kind of corrected himself whatever gets into the meadow and it just kind of disappeared so I was like maybe I was seeing things kind of second guessing myself almost in a way and the dog went down into the break where I wanted to go but the dog wasn't really indicating anything either and I'm like this is so bizarre I'm like whatever so we kind of walked away from the dog to like let the dog just do its own thing and the dog tracker grabs the leash again and that dog just was like boom straight line went in the break of the fence right where I knew that deer went in the blood everywhere and we ended up finding him and the coyotes just destroyed that deer overnight I lost everything there was nothing salvageable uh the hide was completely gone the backstraps were picked out it it looked like wolves had gotten on that deer there was nothing left so ultimately I had to you know I I put my tag on it just because we had found it you know I did the right thing and tagging it and then once you know it the one deer I really wanted ended up showing up daylight like the very next day and I'm like no go figure. Yeah yeah it it's it's one of those things too I you know that deer probably probably died like not too not too long after it probably was dead within the first 30 minutes because the part of the hide that I did find that was still intact on the deer and I found parts of where the broadhead had gone through and I well bring that deer but just in the adrenaline and everything happening I drew I I just overlooked some of the key factors in my own head and how it happened and I would have found that deer had I just gone down I would have found them that afternoon and he was probably stiff as a board already and I was like well it happens listen it it it does happen it's yeah it's better safe than sorry like at the end of the day like you know you what happens all the time in our trade you know it's a you freak accident you know you don't mean to something when you're so locked in the zone you know it doesn't matter if you're in a saddle tree stand blind anything like you you sometimes do not realize you know where your where your legs are or you know what the you know the cams are are are on or resting on basically and everything like that.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

And I feel like that's such a like common common thing to happen but the fact is that like it still got the job done. You know what I mean I I feel like it was still the best case scenario you know and yeah you have no choice but to kind of like back out because like you said you don't know if this thing's still alive you're just gonna keep pushing this thing with its insides hanging out and yet again you don't your your best chance of getting that deer and making sure that deer is dead or killing that deer was to to play it the slow slow weight and everything like that. Yeah coyotes wolves mountain lions over over where where you are and everything like that like yeah yeah your your odds of you know getting that deer and you know being salvage you know meat wasn't high and it wasn't wasn't for you and everything like that but you you go into playing it the correct way and you know doing something that you know a lot of you know there are probably a bunch of people up there would push into that deer and yeah and if he didn't die you just push that deer right off the property and it could end up on the damn news or on a Facebook page or or something like that. So like and which is by far one of the worst case scenarios that you that you want. Yep. So um yeah so I mean crazy that that's and that's so cool like I I think you people always kind of want to shoot a doe and then you know have a buck come cruise in and then shoot a buck like right after I feel like that that's pretty cool. I I was hoping to have that this year. Shot my buck 24 hours later still pretty damn cool so like whatever um but like yeah you just never know and you know sometimes it's especially in that cool cool time like yeah if it's early enough in the day you might or morning or whatever the case is you shoot one you might as well just just stick around and just just wait you never know what's gonna happen. Right. And that gets funny too like when I was doing when I was cleaning that dough and getting her out and stuff from that tree like where that spot was I was still getting cell camera pictures of deer at that scrape using it like I'm like I was just in there walking around milling around and these deer are hammering that mock scrape oh my go figure it's a it's a it's a type of thing that you know yet again like we're taught always that oh the minute you go in there the minute you shoot something the minute you're moving around or there's a commotion deer are just gonna scatter big bucks are going to scatter well yeah and it there always is that possibility that maybe a very mature deer not not even doesn't even have to be mature but maybe a deer that has had too many close encounters a very you know every deer is different you know and their behavior is different their personalities are different. So yeah you're gonna get skittish deer that are definitely gonna run away you know but you know you may not get a skittish deer you may also have a a buck let's just say a big mature buck that knows you're there knows exactly where you are and can either smell you hear you or see you and he's just off and just just right out of your reach so he's comfortable enough and safe enough knowing you're the you're the threat right there.

SPEAKER_02 35:51

I know exactly where this threat is and I think too like I hunt without giving too many details I don't know how many people from my area listen to your podcast but I'm gonna try and keep it a secret I hunt an urban area so like I feel like I think they're used to people and it kind of works out to my advantage but sometimes like I know like if you like I'm trying I I try to stay away from like because a lot of our public land in my area has horse trails walking trails biking trails. I try to stay you know a hundred yards off of those just so that way I have that buffer I have a hundred yard buffer just in case if someone stops on a trail or whatever you know um like a couple of my spots you can actually see the houses and houses and stuff like that. So they're outside making noise and they're you know kids are screaming and dogs are barking lawnmowers chainsaws you know stuff like that and I kind of use those people to my advantage because that's a common noise so if I'm in the woods making noise I'm being muffled by the screaming and the cutting and whatever people do at their homes and I've got I was very fortunate last year to be able to harvest as many deer as I did in proximity to certain things.

SPEAKER_00 37:17

I I think it's um yeah it's a great tool to to use and you got to use whatever advantage you you have to something that we're pretty used to here in New Jersey. But then there's also those spots that actually are some of the best spots because that's where big bucks like to be you know and you know you can get away with with scent you know I mean something that I've noticed since hunting areas like this is kind of like people like oh well what wind do you need I was like well it really doesn't matter because it's the main hiking trail there's people constantly on it or there's a house right here and the people are always outside especially that fall time you know people are doing the leaves you got contractors like everyone's everyone's outside you know so it's like well if I just sit there and I I just wait to hunt one specific wind I'm kind of hurting myself because you know what when the wind is wrong they're still getting human scent anyway so if you hop up in a tree there really is there's no difference no you know what I mean like uh some of my best are like if I'm hunting a spot like that is they have a fire outside or something like that and you get that and out it's like all right like that's an ideal time to to hunt as well um and I've even heard of people old a lot of old timers smoking their clothes and you know using that campfire and everything like that a smell so campfire is one of those things um yeah when you're at camp and everything like that you're you're going into a hunt smelling like smoke you know I mean it no matter what and I don't think that's something that's gonna ever disrupt your hunt unless you're maybe in Alaska or like some of these Canada or Maine or big woods and PA like where there's really no human contact whatsoever anywhere near.

SPEAKER_02 39:09

I mean like my dad back in the early 2000s he used to smoke cigarettes in his tree stand and he shot a pretty nice eight eight point at 20 yards with a rifle during gun season with a cigarette in his mouth so it's like I think I think kind of deer are curious to certain smells like very curious animals. Yeah like I mean like if you stink and you know whatever else like that that might throw him for a loop or if you're out there in floral detergent hunting clothes like that will deter a deer. Yeah and but you know I think just sometimes a different smell kind of makes them curious and ultimately is kind of curiosity killed the cat on that one.

SPEAKER_00 39:54

Yeah you know I I've I've also heard you know and and had guys tell me that every day after work they go out and you know bait and everything like that and the minute they're in the ro woods like they'll see the deer and they'll yet again they'll stay at like a safe like range but the minute they leave the the deer are right on the you know the bait it's something that you know especially curiosity then they get used to that smell they associate it with food so you know I mean that that just that works and and it deer just so fascinating they they really are and and how they're kind of like with with these animals these black bears it's the same thing you know like I don't see nothing. Well maybe you know our bear your bears probably fear way more than our bears do um yet again because like I said you guys have the wolves and the mountain lions and and everything like that.

SPEAKER_02 40:47

But uh I think it depends on the bear bigger size bear I don't think they kind I don't think they kind of they don't I mean if there's a big pack of wolves they'll shy away from it like if you get wolves on your bait like you can almost guarantee that that bait's done with like there won't be a bear on that bait but now if like when I harvested that bear I would have a single wolf on camera and he either got taken out by one of my big bears or he realized hey there's some really big bears and I'm one wolf and I'm out of here yeah and then like he kind of that bear kind of just or not the bear the wolf just disappeared and stopped coming around so like um is that the wolf from your famous story okay different different wolf okay different wolf yeah thank god I didn't run into any on the bear baits but you know like you know hunting bears you can't I always tell everybody keep a routine wear the same like wear the exact same clothes like if you're wearing clothes that smell floral make sure you stay wearing them if you're going out in your work clothes make sure you stay in your work clothes hunting your work clothes because that bear gets on that bait and they smell that and they put that smell to food and if you're hunting in your work clothes and they smell hey oh that that smells here I'm getting food I'm going in you know yeah keeping them to a schedule kind of mess with their old scent factory and one of the kinds of what it's crazy because you you always hear you can't you know you can't fool or trick you know their noses and everything like that.

SPEAKER_00 42:36

But that I guess I wouldn't be like I guess it's tricking it in a in a way um but yet again it's just association. You know what I mean? And like you said it wouldn't be tricking it if you know you smell like you know you know your floral detergent and you go in your work clothes then it's like all right well something's up something's not right this is this is a new scent and it's not it's not food. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 43:00

So like I had a couple buddies go with me and I always baited relatively right around when I got done with work early or whatever. And I told him I said I've been baiting in my work clothes if you want to see how I run bear baits you gotta come with me because you smell just like I do.

SPEAKER_00 43:20

And they're like okay and it wouldn't be 45 minutes later their bears would already have the bait devoured because they took that smell and they're like hey food's here yeah it's um for for you I know it's a difficult thing to you you have two bears and I mean I I've heard it's a difficult thing to get you know bear tags in Wisconsin or or whatever the case is yeah so you've been fortunate that you've been able to get how many how many times have you drawn two so you're two for two I'm two for two yeah and is is it like is part of it also maybe your zone or your area

Big Doe Then A Buck Mishap

SPEAKER_00 44:00

whatever maybe has a bigger higher uh bear population uh what do you think contributes or just it's just the luck of the draw getting in the tag and then just the work that you just put in and and things like that.

SPEAKER_02 44:14

I think it's the luck of the draw so like the zone that I shot this bear in but right behind me that one I waited 12 years for this tag. Holy shit so and that was a dog unit where they could run dogs for bear hunting and it's every Every other so one year the dogs go first, then the baiters next. Right after them after a week, and then the following year, baiters go first, then the dogs. It just so happened the year that I drew that, and I was pretty salty about it. I drew on a year that the dogs went first. I go, Well, there goes my hunt, you know, like it is what it is. And the bear guys had a bait like literally 50 feet off the center of the road. And I'm like, my dad and I are like, Well, we have our bait here. He's like, just we'll continue to run it and see what happens. So we pushed in, we were probably almost a mile back, and I had bears on bait all the time. I only had the dogs on camera out of all the months of baiting. I only had the dogs on camera once or twice, and it didn't mess with the movement of it. And leading into my hunt, I actually this was before cell cameras were like a hot commodity kind of thing. What what year was this? This was 2017. Okay. Yeah. Okay. 2017. I had no bears on that bait. Acorns were dropping. I didn't really know a whole heck of a lot about bear hunting and you know stuff like that. Like my dad and I, that was my dad and I's first time doing DIY. Okay. So it was like watching a lot of YouTube and reading posts and asking people questions, and then it just came to a point where I'm like, I'm doing it myself. My dad's like, yep, that sounds like a great plan. I ended up shooting this bear the second night I hunted, and I only I and I only hunted for like an hour, a total of an hour and a half that season, just due to the my time of getting done with work and how far of a drive it was and everything like that. And then I ended up shooting this bear 45 minutes into my or yeah, almost a half hour 45 minutes into my second hunt. And then this bear, I don't know if I ever sent you pictures of that one. I'll show you quick. That bear has the big white badge. I love that. I love that. So that bear was a complete and utter DIY situation. I did a lot of e-scouting. That was a 2022 bear. Yeah, 2022, because I waited five years for that take, because I missed a year of applying, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00 47:08

Oh, so if you so if you miss a year in Wisconsin, you have to start all over again. Not not all over.

SPEAKER_02 47:16

It takes. I think it's like if you miss one year, it's like a grace year, but then I think it's after two years, you start completely all over again. Like you don't get to keep those points. I can't remember exactly the breakdown of it, but you do eventually end up losing your points if you miss a bunch. But like that that year that I had that tag was just fresh out of my car accident. I was hurting real bad. And I told my wife, I go, my wife will never bear hunt with me again because I didn't realize when I found this spot, I I wasn't carrying anything, I didn't have anything. I found it right as the snow melted. And I told my wife, I go, hey, I want to get my baits out. And I was like, would you help me? She goes, Yeah, that's fine. Eight hours of trying to put baits out, she was done with me. I thought I thought we were done with, I thought our marriage was over. And bear baiting almost kills the the relationship. Yeah, because I thought the one spot was gonna be harder, harder to get going. When in fact, that one was the easiest, and this one where I ended up harvesting my bear was the farthest walk. It took the most effort and whatever else, but you know, I trucked out every weekend. I was out there baiting and making sure I was doing the same routine, and eventually I would actually start to bait. I got it to a point where I would bait and the bears would come in while I was baiting, like I could throw them a donut and they would pick it up and sit there and eat it. I became friends with porcupines where I could actually hold porcupines in my arms without getting stuck with the quills. It was crazy. I couldn't take pictures because I didn't want to startle them, but yeah, I could hold porcupines, they would climb my leg, they would be waiting for me at the log, and I'd give them food out of the bucket and then they'd sit there. Yeah, they it was like it was a trip. It it was something that I've never experienced, and ultimately it it make made me fall deeper in love with bear hunting and the aspect of bear hunting, and everything that has to do with bear hunting, I love it now. Like I wish I could bear hunt every year. So I mean, you always come to Jersey. I know I could, but then it's like oh the money to get out there, and like I you guys put down some big bears, but it's like it's the money, it's the money to get out, it is the money to get out there.

SPEAKER_00 49:54

It it I will say, like, I I definitely that's the the the downside of New Jersey for out of not even I can't even say for out of staters that are at least outside of that six hour range, you know what I mean. I mean it's manageable if you live with you know five hours or four hours, you know. Obviously, the closer you get, you know, the easier. Um, you know what I mean? But um one year you definitely have to come, you know. Yeah, um, I imagine I imagine that Connor will probably come like almost every single year. I mean, until until at least he gets a bear, like yet again, he can easily get a bear next year. Um you know what I mean. But we have big bears. Um we have we have really big bears. Uh we have a very dense population, which everybody knows about because we talk about constantly all the time. Uh, but it's a two-dollar tag. That's the the cool thing. I think even for you, it's a two dollar tag. I think it's a two-dollar tag all around. Your license just costs you, you just have to pay for the out-of-state license, which I still don't think is that bad in New Jersey and everything like that. Um, you know what I mean? But, you know, I I I completely, completely get it. Is there anywhere like why do they have, I mean, and I don't know if we we went over this two years ago or if I've you know, why do they have it set up the way that they that they have it? Like, why is it so hard? Is it is the population like obviously it's not like Jersey's population, but like what is the you know, have you heard anything?

SPEAKER_02 51:32

So, I mean the DNR, I hope there's a warden listening to this because I don't like the DNR. I call them the do nothing right department in our state because everything they do is just absolutely insane, and I don't know how they can even uphold some of the laws that they impose on hunters, but that's for another story. But for black bear hunting, Wisconsin I think ranks third in bear population. I think we have like 350,000 bear in the state of Wisconsin, and they say the zones that take the longest don't have the greatest populations, but I honestly think it's a crock of shit because I know people that have cabins in some of these zones, and they have plenty of bears that come in and take out their trash cans and raid their bird feeders, and you know, you you see people posting bears along the side of the highway eating grass and stuff like that. But yeah, I think more so along the lines is they say the zones that don't have that you aren't able to draw tags is because there's not that many bears. There's something crazy like that. So, like where I hunt, so like where I hunt, it's mainly the center of the state, the zone I hunt is center of the state, and they it's like a four-year pull, I think it is for a tag. They and it also has the lowest percentage of harvest, just because that's our main main egg zone. Like there's yeah, farm farm fields everywhere, a lot of acorns in the center of Wisconsin, and it's a lot harder to kill a bear in my zone. So it's like one of the zones where not a lot of bears get taken. So they they generally hand out more tags and a lot more quicker in that zone.

SPEAKER_00 53:40

Hmm. Okay. All right. Interesting. Very, very interesting. I you know, I know it's uh with with you, you you guys from Wisconsin, I know it's a it's an issue that you know you guys have, and you know, that's why yet again Connor's coming out here to Jersey to to try to get one, you know what I mean, and things like that. Um, you know, and still still nothing, also uh with the wolves and everything like that, no open season on on those, no trapping, no, no nothing.

SPEAKER_02 54:11

Yeah, that you can thank the liberal judges in California for that one. Um they got offended that we were allowed to hunt the wolves and stuff like that, and we filled our quota of 300 wolves in under 72 hours, which is absolutely insane. Um they so they had the wolves put back on the endangered list, and which then screwed us over here in Wisconsin, and even though they're not endangered, even though they're not endangered, like they say that they're endangered. I highly doubt it. I can take you out and set you in the woods, and a wolf will find you in probably an hour or two. Um, maybe even quicker than that, but um I know it was talked about, but it got shot down right away. Um, I think they need a better management plan for our wolf population. Um, I've seen trail camera pictures, and I know people with trail camera pictures of packs of 20 wolves in a pack, um, that's absolutely insane. Like where my dad lives up in northern Wisconsin, there's a lot of wolves up that way. They stretch down even closer to like Green Bay, Wisconsin. There's some wolves that they stretch down to. Um, but that western side of the state, once you get like towards like an hour, two hours away from the Minnesota border, there's just a sheer amount of wolves, and it's just insane at how how often I come across tracks. And I harvested a deer during gun season this past um fall in 2025. I shot a four-pointer, nothing real special. I shot him, and my friends from Illinois ended up texting me, and they're like, Hey, do not come out to the car right now. There's wolves standing outside your car. Um, they're like literally licking your hitch and hole on the back of your car. I'm like, Oh, all right, well, I'll stay in the woods. Thank you. So, like, they're there, there's a lot. It's it's I think we mismanage our predators here in the state of Wisconsin, and it kind of is unfortunate because you can tell, like in northern Wisconsin, like the DNR really screwed up with the way they did the deer hunt up in northern Wisconsin, but then with the wolves and stuff coming from like the UP, like there's a depending on where you're at in the state, there's less deer in certain areas. It's of course that's crazy to see. Like where my dad lives, he's got the same four deer that bit uh visit his property, and then um nobody around him ends up harvesting deer because quite frankly, there isn't. But if you go 10 minutes to the south where their farm fields pick up, that's where all the deer are at. So it's like they move out of certain areas due to either a lack of food, mismanaging of the deer herd, and with the predator population.

SPEAKER_00 57:29

Wow, yeah, you got you guys got a lot, and then are they still not saying that you guys

Urban Hunting Noise Scent And Patterns

SPEAKER_00 57:35

have mountain lions?

SPEAKER_02 57:38

Yeah, they're saying see the the problem is with the mountain lions, is is if they say we have a breeding pair, now they have to find funding for management of these mountain lions, and these sightings are becoming more and more popular. I want to say it was either 2025 or 2024 in Buffalo County, Wisconsin. A guy ended up shooting a mountain lion with his bow on his way. In or out, it was at 10 yards, and the cat was going to attack him, so he ended up shooting it with his bow, and it was deemed self-defense, it was a clean harvest, you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 58:17

Well, at least it was self-defense because sometimes they try to screw you on on that.

SPEAKER_02 58:21

Well, yeah, and like there's a mountain lion that has that had babies on camera at my buddy's place, 15 minutes from my dad's place. Um, he had mountain lions with babies, so there's a breeding pair in Wisconsin. Um, three miles from my dad's cabin, a guy had a trail camera video of a mountain lion actually taking down a white tail. Um, there was a mountain lion over where I deer hunt in central Wisconsin. There's another mountain lion where I used to live, kind of towards Black River Falls. There was one back behind one of the water park resorts, actually. Yeah. And it it was a big cat, like 200 plus pound cat.

SPEAKER_00 59:07

For for you, Wisconsin native, your fellow hunters and outdoorsmen, everything like that. Is that something that at the end of the day that has nothing to do with you guys? And just because the state has to come up with funding does not mean that this should ruin your deer hunting population. Because at the end of the day, wolves are bad. I'm wrong, wolves are extremely bad. Everyone knows them that they are some of the top predators, but then you add mountain lions to that are also another top predator. We're not even let's not even get into the because I don't even think black bears are anywhere close to their close to uh cats and and dogs, right?

SPEAKER_02 59:56

I think the black bears mainly go after the fawns, like when they're first born and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:01

They're opportunist, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:03

Like if a bear comes across the fawn, like obviously it'll take it.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:07

Yeah, or it has to be a very injured deer or something like that, right? Yeah, I say I say the same thing here about New Jersey, like people are like, oh, well, they eat meat, and I go, Well, they don't really eat as much meat as you really think.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:19

Like, yeah, they eat a lot of shrubs and and uh nuts and buds and and and that's kind of what I say too, is like, you know, if you think about it, a bear isn't actively out chasing a deer. Like, yes, bears do run fast, but that's over a very short time.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:37

Like it's not worth their the calories that they have to burn up, right? Right, and and they have to use and use is not worth it to them. They are actually very lazy eaters. If you watch them on a bait pile, and for anyone who doesn't know bears or bear hunting or anything like that, they literally lay down and eat, right? They're they're extremely lazy, and you know, they don't they don't want to burn up all that energy because they can find ways to eat a lot easier and they just gain you know way more calories and and everything like that, you know what I mean? So with with all that being said, how like nervous are are you guys? How like do you think at some point this is going to be a critical issue with the deer population and also potentially um hunter or not doesn't even have to be hunter safety, just safety let alone for everybody living in these in these areas.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:47

Yeah, I think you know, like going back to our first wolf hunt back in 2020, I think it was 2021. We we hunters were granted 30 tags or 300 tags, half of them went to the normal hunters, and half went to our Native American tribes or Indian tribes. Everyone filled all 300 tags in under 72 hours. Yeah, now they're saying that their their quota system was 300, they know for a fact more wolves were harvested than the 300, they know that for a fact. I think for me, like I do I like wolves? No, I hate wolves. I me personally, I don't like them, but I also have a good understanding of that they do belong like in the ecosystem, they play a part, they take out the sick and wounded deer, they take out, you know, they do unfortunately take out a lot of live, healthy deer too. Like um, I think wolves and the mountain lion, they play a big part of the ecosystem. But when you have an apex predator that doesn't have a natural predator and there's no managing them and they're running rampant, that's when things kind of get out of hand. Like if you're not harvesting wolves, like what out there is going to take out a wolf, really? I mean, a big cat might take out a uh a lone wolf, but like if you get a couple wolves in a pack, I don't think they're really gonna get messed with, honestly. No, so it's like if there if nothing in the wild takes them out, then they just grow and grow and grow and grow. Like, if you look at like your urban deer populations and stuff where there's no hunting allowed, or it's only at certain times, like Lee Ellis on Seek One when they do their Domageddon hunt in January and they shoot like a hundred deer or more, like it's like that. Where if you aren't taking them out, they're just rapidly producing. Like, I think each litterable wolf is like four to six pups, like a normal dog. So it's like you keep adding six per pack each year, and if you have a thousand wolves and they're having six pups a year, and like let's say half the population of that thousand are females and they're all bred, you're having a lot of wolves per per pack, and they just keep growing and growing and growing, and it's a lot of moles to feed, and you know, they're taking out. I think on average, I think they say wolves take out 50,000 deer in Wisconsin on average, so it's like you know, it does play a big role into some of the deer populations in some of the areas. 50,000. Yeah, I I want to say it was right around there. I don't really keep up with the numbers because I don't like last year the DNR said we had two million deer in Wisconsin, and then they said, Oh no, it's closer to three million, and then there was about a million deer shot in Wisconsin last year's from like, what the hell? Where are we getting these numbers from? So, but yeah, I think predator control is like a huge thing that we need to be serious about.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:27

Yeah, I mean you you you you hear everyone talk about it is conservation. Like everything needs to be has to fall under that line. Like, you know, you you talk about disease, starvation. Like I always tell, like, my biggest thing to to like when I'm arguing or not even arguing and debating with people is like, well, you know, if no one's gonna do it, then all these deer or whatever animal, they're gonna end up starving because they're gonna eat all their food sources away. You know, you get a lot more sick deer, you also get a lot more competition, you get also a lot more inbreeding, too. Right? Where they, you know, breeding becomes, you know, if they they got nothing, you know what I mean? That it's it just is what it is, it's just not a healthy balance. And yet again, right? You look at every thriving ecosystem, everything can

Bear Baiting Tags Routines And Hard Lessons

SPEAKER_00 1:06:20

basically be killed by something. I mean, there is no, you know, you even look at Africa, you can look at Africa and say there's really no top. One predator where everything that one predator is killing everything because you look at a a hippo. Yeah, hippos are are on that on that realm, but they still die. They still can't go too too far and can't grow out of control. I mean you have lions, and lions either fight each other, or you know, hyenas or water buffalo, and you know, everything has a given or take, everything has a has a balance, you know what I mean. So it's it's just like this, and it's just something that you know hopefully they can figure out. I mean, yet again, I think getting funding out as an outsider looking in, and I probably all you guys feel the same, like getting funding for a program for mountain lions when you have mountain lions is a pretty key situation. Yet again, even if you decide not to be able to hunt them, you would still like to know that your population, how big your population is, and also how healthy this population is.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:41

Yep, yeah, and that's like the biggest thing with the wolves, too. Like, you know, they have the funding, they do the managing, not per se the harvesting of the animals to send the populations out, but like they do some sort of numbers and they're managing them that way, and they tell you a number, and it's like, yeah, but that number, when you tell us that number, it's like I don't believe you because it's like if we, you know, we always like uh I get a lot of the times too, like when I'm talking to guys about wolves and stuff, they're like, I don't understand it. You know, when we had the wolf hunt, we were done with it in under three days because we filled them all, we filled all of our we filled our quota. That means that we have more predator, like more wolves here than what you guys actually say there. And it's like, you know, the and then they tell you, oh, it's not that bad, you know. Like the R DNR. I don't know how if you guys have it too, but like our DNR is gung-ho about the CWD stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:43

Like, yeah, no, ours, ours, uh I can't say ours, ours is. I imagine there there is some point, but like like we bait, we're allowed to do all these things. They want our our thing is they want deer gone, and the insurance companies drive drive that and everything like that. Uh where we have we're a seven bucks state. That tells you how absolutely crazy, and a if not unlimited amount of does, you got five or seven per tag. So you want five. Let's see, you get your bow, fall bow, permit bow, winter bow, shotgun, muzzle odor, six thing. So there you go. That's seven. That's almost that's five in in each one, or you know, I mean for the most part. So crazy. We yeah, I'm not gonna even get into our ours.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:33

Yeah, so like our DNR, they've been doing CWD testing and research and whatever else for like the last 22 years, and they've done absolutely nothing for it, like they haven't slowed the spread down, they haven't been like, Oh, we cured CWD, like CWD is a prion in the deer, and if they have it and it mutates, they have it, you know. And it's like so I started firing back at the DNR and tagging them in very controversial posts on Instagram, and you know, I don't get nothing out of it, but I want them to see it like, hey, this isn't an issue, like you say it is, like, you know, like that they tell us that, oh, if you're baiting, you're they're coming in close contact with each other, they're spreading CWD, you know, and what whatever else. Well, I have trail camera pictures of deer with no bait on the ground or whatever, they're all standing in a small group, and every single one of them is licking each other, like, and it's like they're they're spreading it right there. So then, like me being a popster, I post it on Instagram saying, Hey, Wisconsin DNR, the deer aren't listening to you. I think they need to social distance.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:52

Well, look look at it this way, because I I love how you say that is you look at let's let's not let's take baiting out out of it, let's take you know the the ropes and everything that we use, and we look at a regular 100% official deer made scrape, rub, whatever you want to look at. We look at a community scrape, it's got multiple linking branches, yada yada, whatever. What are they doing constantly? That is open 24 7 365, right? Multiple deer are hitting that on just a any given amount of day, multiple deer are hitting that per day, right? If a new deer comes in, they are going to hit that, right? So I've I agree with you, and I've always been like, well, that yeah, that makes no freaking sense. You literally what when you watch a group a family of deer, a group of deer, they clean each other, they lick each other, they're like they're very social animals within each other. Yep, that's how they you know they spread their scent, and it's you're you're right, and I I love how you kind of say that. And when they're eating, even if they're in a ag field, you know, I mean they're eating. There's yeah, sometimes they're spread out 100%, but usually when they enter a field together, they're in the same area, they're right in the same area, and then they spread out. Bless you. Um so, like, yeah, to say, yeah, I I agree, I yeah, I agree with you. We and that's a rabbit hole we could go down to.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:36

Oh, yeah, we could spend hours on it. Like, we're a big egg state here in Wisconsin, Midwest. Agricultures are a big thing, corn be corn, soybeans, wheat fields, hay fields, alfalfa fields, you name it, we have it here. And you drive by a field and there's just a bunch of deer in it, and they're either clustered or they're apart from each other. And the DM, you know, like we legally can't bait certain. I think out of 72 counties, 55 of them cannot bait. So that leaves like very little counties that can bait. Well, on the areas that you can't bait, it is legal for you if you're on private land to put in a food plot. Isn't that baiting? Like you're manipulating the land to put food to congregate the deer to harvest the deer off these food plots. So it's like then make food plots illegal. Oh, but that that's natural feed. That dude's chicory food pot or radish food pot or turnips, that's natural. That was growing here. Yeah, come on. That you're you're using something that they like to bring them in, and you're shooting them in a uh a bait station, and I get a lot of hate for that here in Wisconsin too. Like, guys are like, baiting is cheating, but then they're posting bucks on a food pot. And it's like, aren't you doing the same thing that I'm doing, other than using corn? You're using a food, like a poop pot.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's it's it's ideally the same thing. I think what I mean, yet again, I don't my thing with baiting here in Jersey, it's 100% legal, right? Um, and I always tell people as long as it's legal, it really doesn't matter. Um, right, and they're say going into opening weekend, we have to shoot a dough first before we can get a buck. So you get best believe no, I'm baiting, right? After after that, I try I try not to bait, you know what I mean? There will be there will be times where it's like, all right, like I will still throw some bait, but I'm I'm hunting food plots, you know what I mean? And you know, corn, beans, whatever the case is, like I think what people see as in is it's just such a bigger area, and food plots are huge now, but yet again, in the same realm, it's the same thing, it's just that scales are just different, you know what I mean? And it's not natural, right? You're you at the end of the day, you I you can never say it's natural if a hunt, but unless you said 50 years ago this was a cornfield, which is not the case because we are we already know that, right? Yeah, yeah. Okay, well, it's not natural, right? If you said you know this is this was a bee, no, those are those are no now. If you grew something that was native, that was already there, and you just said, all right, the field wasn't growing too well, so I had to hinge cut a bunch of trees, knock stuff, open it up a little more, and I replanted that's a hundred percent, in my opinion, natural because it was naturally already there. You did what you had to do to make it thrive, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:57

Yeah, and I like ruffling feathers too, because like guys are like, I don't need to throw corn out to shoot a deer, I hunt them the natural way.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:05

And I'm like, So you hunt over acorns then, and and and there you go, that's natural. That is that's a hundred percent natural. And let me tell you, something that you like, we're talking about earlier, something that you were able to learn was what the difference was in Ohio, and that's what it's like in Jersey, and up in West North, you know, West North North Jersey, is you have acorn flats for just everywhere. There's just acorns dropping everywhere, right? So it's a natural food source that's already there, but it's like hunting a in like a needle trying to find a needle in a haystack because you have to be in the exact area, like the exact concentrated area that they're exactly in. And you know, people have been like, oh, well, you know, you you gotta find poop. Well, there's poop everywhere, right? These deer, they're they're everywhere, right? Yeah, I could be in, let's just say it's a I'm up on a ridge and it's a we'll just say short, like five, six hundred yards, you know, I mean long and you know, five, six hundred yards wide, right? I need to be they can come in at any point, which they do. You know, you I always I always follow trails, and like there's a trail here, here, here, here, here, here, right? And there's great sign here, great sign here. You have to be exactly in the perfect tree just that moment because that day they could come walk right in front of you. Doesn't mean the next day that's exactly what they're gonna do, they're gonna come out on the other uh side of the property. Like it's you're in an acorn flat, right? Where there's acorns just dropping everywhere everywhere. It's raining acorns, right? It's not like you're in an acorn flat and you're it's the first tree that is finally dropping. If it's the first tree dropping and you're able to get in there before all the others drop, you're golden, you know exactly where you need to be. You know, but it's not the case in Ohio, it's not the case in New Jersey, and you know what I mean, and in some of these places.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:09

Yeah, like last year hunting in Ohio, it was like walking on gravel. That was the most acorn. I swear, every oak tree produced at least four million acorns. I I'm not even exaggerating, like now, it was crazy.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:26

For for you being a Wisconsin guy and not seeing that, you know what I mean? And I'm I'm gonna tell you, and and anyone listening who's used to hunting acorns, and you know, if you're you're going back to Ohio, maybe you'll be able to see, like, it's been very mild winters, which means, in my opinion, what I've noticed, the acorn, acorn, the the oak trees have been producing acorns almost consistently

Wolves Mountain Lions CWD And Bait Debates

SPEAKER_00 1:18:50

every single year.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:53

Yep, and then like that's how it is here too. Like our winters, usually, when you think of Wisconsin, we have some brutal winters, like snow, cold. It would de hurt the a the oaks in the fall and producing acorns, but like these last few years, we've been having mild winters. It doesn't get it, it gets cold, we don't get as much snow. It gets bitter cold, but these trees are producing acorns. But depending on like where you're at in the state, too, also we have um a lower population of oak trees because they're cut down, or you got cities and stuff like that. So, like they're more like consolidated to a certain area. Like, if you go to the northwoods, you've got smaller areas, or you have some bigger areas, and if you can find them and determine on if they're red or they're white, if they're white, you hunt them early season. If they're red, you hunt them late season just because the red oaks don't get ripened until November, end of October, early November. Good food source for the end of the season, and then the white acorn, white oaks you hunt early season because that's when they're you know the best. Um out in Ohio, I could you not all them trees are red oaks, and it's like, damn, like you know the deer are eating them, but you don't know where, you don't know how to hunt it because you're like, I'm gonna hunt this ridge, and then you don't see anything, and then you're like, Yeah, I'm gonna go hunt this ridge tomorrow. And then when you come out at night, the deer are on the ridge that you just sat, and you're like, damn it, I have to go back to the drawing board. Like it was just crazy. Like, my dad's like, Where do you think we should hunt? And I'm like, I don't know, just pick a tree and hunt it, I guess. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:48

Yeah, no, it it's it's it's one of those things, and you're like, Yeah, we have we have whites, reds, you know, we have every pin oat, we have every type of oats, you know what I mean. And then, like, say you're not in a white oak flat, you know what I mean, or maybe you, you know, then you have to try to find them, and you're only like I I've gone to places and it's like, all right, like I'm looking for white oats, and it's reds, reds, reds, reds, reds, reds, reds, you know what I mean? And it's like, all right, well, I know where they're going, the deer are going to be eventually, but they're not here now because I know somewhere on this, like one of the places, like three or four thousand acres. It's like, all right, like mark this off to be after all the white oaks are are eaten. This is a spot to be, you know what I mean. But uh now I need to go walk, could be miles until I find you know the the white oaks that I'm that I'm looking for in it and everything like that. And you know, uh what I always do is whenever I find white oaks in the woods, I always pin it on onyx, and I'm like, all right, this and I'll put it white oaks, and just so I know exactly, and it kind of helps you uh go from from you know down the line and and everything like that. But yeah, hunting oak flats, like yeah, if you know, when and because I'm gonna say when you do come to Bear Camp in Jersey, whether it's two, three, whatever years down the line, like I think you're going to be completely shocked at what it's like hunting in New Jersey and what people think New Jersey is, and then they're completely blown away. Like you're gonna see, like it's yeah, we got mountains, ridges, you know. Obviously, not they're not giant, but it's like we got, and then we have oaks, and then when you see the bears, you're gonna be like, Holy shit, you guys got big bears. And then when you even see the deer, like the deer numbers and and stuff like that, like we got good deer numbers and and and everything like that. So, like, yeah, well, um bear camp is the one thing where people are always like, you know, you uh obviously Connor, we got uh Zach, um, but then guys who like um you know are always reaching out in the in the hunting competition, like, oh you know, when's bear season, you know, we're gonna come eventually, and every which I knew they're gonna make it eventually, but I'm like, I can't wait for all you guys to like see what Jersey, what Jersey's like, um, because everyone just considers it the Jersey Shore and like New York City and clubbing and Vinos and and everything like that, and it's not even it's not even the case, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:23:25

Yeah, like that's how I view like I've seen Jersey, like guys hunting Jersey on the outdoor channel and stuff like that. And like I think Michael Weidel's gone out there a few times, so you see it on phone collector and stuff like that, but like that just shows you a little bit of it. Like, you know, I've been following you for some time now, and I see everything that you guys do, and Frank and all them guys, like with the hunting, and it's like, dang, like, there's a lot of deer all that way.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:56

We we have, yeah, we have we have we're a tiny state, but we have just big deer numbers, big bear numbers, like um turkey numbers in certain areas are crazy grid and and stuff like that. And then you you know, you look at the fishing and the you know, obviously, we have the ocean, so we have the stripers, and you can just do all different types of things. Like, we really are an outdoor state, like really we just don't get that rep. Um, two reasons. Obviously, one because you know, New York City, you know, I mean New Jersey shore, and then also because you know, our fish and wildlife kind of like, and I can't even blame it on the officers, it has to be the people that are in in charge and and everything like that. And they want to take away two seats and give it to non-hunters or non-like and just regular your regular day people, which can't happen because once you do it too, then like eventually they're gonna replace everybody. Um it really we yeah, we we really are like a an outdoor state, and you know, we've been going down to Delaware now, and Delaware is absolutely incredible. And you know, okay, I can get to PA within an hour, hour 15, and upstate New York within an hour, hour 15. And you know, we do have so much around us, which is why you know we can meet up with Squatch and like with all these other people because we're really generally not too far. I think all of us are like roughly like two hours at most, two hours away from each other, where it's actually a very simple drive. Yeah, you know, but uh I I know uh

New Jersey Outdoors And Wrap Up

SPEAKER_00 1:25:36

we're we've been trying to keep the shows to an hour. We we've been talking, we're at an hour 30. Um Quinn, any any last words, brother?

SPEAKER_02 1:25:45

I don't really have anything else to add. I mean, we could sit here and talk for hours and I'm sure people, I'm sure people don't want that.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:53

Um, no, it it's yeah, we we could keep going. Man, it's been an absolute pleasure getting you back on. I think you you were also on for um weren't you on for trivia night too? No, I was just in the comments. Okay, well, we'll have to we're gonna be bringing trivia night back. It's things have been crazy, and you know, bringing back trivia night and the roundtable segment and everything like that. I gotta gotta get on those and and everything like that, but we'll definitely have to get you get you on for trivia night and everything like that. But it's been hella. I I love talking to you. Um love hearing about Wisconsin and and all the other stuff. And you know, hopefully, you know, one of these years, you know, you come down here. I'll be definitely up in up in Wisconsin within the next year or two. Um and yeah, we'll we'll definitely get together and you know have have a blast. Yeah, for sure. Looking forward to it. Yeah, no, definitely. Well, everyone, we hope you guys enjoyed this episode, and we'll see you guys next time.