The Silence Before The Shot

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Every hunter has a moment when the woods go quiet, the air shifts, and time slows down. And in that stillness, you realize you're not chasing the game. You're chasing something bigger. Welcome to the Chase the Unknown podcast, where we go beyond the saddle, past the show cameras, and deep into the stories that fuel the fire. The show is for the ones who sleep over the rut, who hike miles into the public land for just a chance, and who live for that silence before the shot. From the backcountry to the back roads. We sit down with hunters and trappers, with relentless stories, who live for the thrill, embrace the unknown, and return with the stories we're telling. This is more than a podcast. This is the start of something real. Let's chase it.

Meet Jackson And Spartan Racing

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Jackson, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Yeah, no problem. Of course. Real real quick, before we get into everything and you know learn more about you. What Spartan is you, I see that uh the Spartan athlete on the USA team. Yes. That's that's running and everything like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

So Spartan uh races is a professional sport, it's actually ranked second deadliest sport on Earth right behind Olympics. And so what it basically entitles is get off the couch. That's their main motto. Um athletes, um, you do a simple 5k sprint, you crawl through the mud, you're going through on your barbed wire crawls, carrying sandbag, bucket carries, climbing over hillsides, mountains, ravines, and then at the end of each race, you get a shirt just for you, a cussing metal just for you, and just internet fame.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

That uh that seems that seems intense.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

Oh, it is very intense. Yeah, I'll explain more in the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Yeah, definitely. Okay, so get we got that. I I I was so curious, uh, curious about that. So I I I had to make sure that was the the first thing that uh that I asked. But um, Jackson, for those of you who do not know, uh who don't know you, why don't you give a quick rundown and and everything like that?

SPEAKER_01 2:41

Okay, so hi everyone. My name is Jackson Knight. I am the business owner of Trapper Jack here in Missouri. I trap nuisance critters for a living. And when I'm not trapping critters, I am a full-time um I travel each state to fill my buck tag. When I'm not doing that, I am running Ultramatter fonts.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Oh man, busy, busy, busy. So yeah. How um you're born and raised in Missouri?

SPEAKER_01 3:12

I was born in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Okay. I moved to Missouri when I was a baby.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

Okay, okay. So basically, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Basically, grew up in Missouri, basically.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Okay,

Missouri Whitetail Rules And Seasons

SPEAKER_00 3:27

great. Well, man, I mean, going up there, I we're we're talking about me and uh one of my buddies, like we're talking about you know, the them traveling, they're they're heading out to October to do um elk hunt in Colorado, and he's driving out, and his plan is I think he's driving out beforehand, uh-huh. Scouting, I think scouting Missouri, maybe hunting in in the evenings, and then on his way back, he's be spending you know a couple more days there and everything like that. But you know, we're we're talking, it's like, you know, you you look at the three really the three big whitetail states, you know what I mean? And Missouri is you roll, you can probably rotate them anywhere between two, two and three. And I pushing pushing one from from what everyone is, you know, has has been telling me and everything like that about Missouri. And I I I did hear that you guys are going to be going to a draw state as well.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Yeah, the draw states for um basically for non-residents. Okay. So for for for me being a resident, um, I don't have to participate in that. I could just buy my tags over the counter. And um, also heard is that um before residents, non-residents could get two books for raffle and bow, but now they limited that completely down to just one buck.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

Yep. Well, I I I like that. I I I really do. I I think um one, it just makes a when you're a state like that, and honestly, you're competing really to be the number one, you know, uh whitetail state. Um, you know, yeah, I for me, like if I'm traveling out to Missouri, like honestly, most likely I'm hunting hunting just bow anyway, but like yeah, I think one there there shouldn't be a problem with with one at all. I mean, obviously you you guys as a resident and everything like that, you guys think that that's perfect and probably loving that.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

Yeah, so like with resident along like with hunting leases included for residents. Uh if you have more than 20 acres, you get up to I want to say up to 20 deer tags. Oh wow. You get you have one, you get one tag for muzzlewater for a buff, you get one for firearms, you get one for archery season, and I think you get another one for alternative season, but you can kill as many does as you want.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

Okay, yeah, we we have that here. We can it's most zones are like unlimited does and everything like that, and we can shoot up to seven bucks, which is crazy, but that's a that's a whole for for another time. Um, what what's the alternative? Because we don't we don't have that here. Um I I feel like that's more like a midwest, like I've heard it more in in Midwest states and everything like that.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

So I'll break it down to make so then you it makes sense to you. So basically, I'll start with the first season. You have archery, and it's compound bow, long bow, or it could be crossbow, and then you have you season, you have rifle season, then you have dough season, muzzle season. Alternative season is basically you can use spears, you can use pistols, you can use addlass. So addless are kind of like a spears that you throw, but it's kind of like a dart. Okay. Uh you can use smokeless powder, like during like muzzle, you could use shotguns during it. You could use like you could use any, so you could even use like a any weapon you want during alternate season. That is wild.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

I can't believe I've never heard of that.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

But a lot of Missouri residents mainly use pistols.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

Figured, figured. I feel I feel like if you can, that's a pretty popular one. Like everyone wants to probably compete that or to to use a pistol and and take a deer or something like that. I I know um you hear that a lot. You know anyone that's that's uh used a spear or anything like that?

SPEAKER_01 7:28

Uh I know um it was I want to say it was eight years ago, the MDC, one of the MDC um deer biologists employees uh was hunting over an apple tree and spilled a 15-point buck underneath the tree and killed it. But it was like from what I read, I think it was like the deer was only like less than 10 yards underneath of them.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

That's insane. Yeah, I feel like all the spear videos I've watched where guys in the tree and they either drop it or even like a throw, like it's obviously it's gonna be pretty, pretty close, and and you gotta want to be like right on top of them and everything like that. But yeah, crazy, crazy, crazy just way to way to hunt. I mean, don't get me wrong, like I mean, I don't even know if I'd try it. I mean that that's on the line of balance of obviously if you you gotta practice a lot and everything like that. But you know, um, I mean, whatever's legal is is legal, you know. I mean, I can't not if Jersey said yeah, you could do that, would I probably try it? Probably, because you know, it it it'd be uh it definitely has to test you. It definitely does, but um so for you, what uh what age did you start hunting at?

First Deer Story In The Backyard

SPEAKER_01 8:45

So I probably started hunting going with my dad, probably I would say probably around eight or nine. I just tagged along with him. I was generally the kid with uh a giant blanket wrapped me around and a thermostat of hot chocolate, and then I fully took my hunting serious. I'll probably say around age 11 was when I took hunting seriously. Because at that time, uh leading up to it, I already took my hunter safety cap course. And so the rule of my dad and my grandfather is you had to have that first before I you go in the woods, go hunting with firearms. So they were uh pushing that more. So once I got it, that's when I was like, oh, now you have it. Let's go down the woods, see where you're hitting with your gun, and then you go on down the woods and go shoot a deer.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

Love it. So hunting's been a part of you basically from from day one and everything like that. What are um what are some of the first things that you kind of remember? Obviously, you're wrapped up in a blanket, hot truck, but a classic, classic, like kid move, you know what I mean? Like um go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

Um yeah, I was just normal kid mood. Um, but I didn't have any tablet, I was just basically just drawn to nature, so I was more of that. But um I'd say my favorite memory when I was a kid was we it was this when I got my first year. Um we hunted my neighbor's farm out of town, and saw Doe's, and I was at the time I wanted a buck. And we come back to our house, my where we hunt basically my backyard, and so I'm watching Tom and Jerry eating pancakes and sausage eggs, watching TV, wearing my pajama clothes, yeah, yeah, and my dad's upstairs, he just got done cooking, fell asleep. My my dog was on the kitchen deck patrolling the area, and he's heard him strange barking strange, and I'll pop eight deer out of my backyard, and they were probably from the window, like less than 30 yards. So I quietly ran upstairs. Yeah, got to the woke my dad. I'm like, Dad, deer. He's like, go to the truck, get both of the rifles, but shut the door quietly so then the deer won't hear you. So as any uh 15-year-old, I quietly shut the door, but I shut the door to like so quietly, I'm like, okay, you didn't hear me. So I got to the truck, got the guns, I snuck back inside. I shut it very quietly so they won't hear me. And I could on the kitchen deck. My dad's like, okay, there's seven does one in the there's one dough in the dried up pond. This and the dried up pond is between me and my grandparents' house at the time. And and there was like a clear open, this is like probably I would say an 80-yard shot. I had it, so I'm like basically I'm using my dad's 12-gauge bone crusher. The reason why I call it bone crusher, whatever you you shoot the deer, it's gonna break everything. Like it's so I have a 50% chance of hitting the deer, 50% chance of hitting the house because I'm shooting at an angle. So I just said a quick hell Mary, and I I lined my sights up, I pulled the trigger, and then I kind of felt like my conscious, I kind of felt like I left my body. I looked at my dad and he's covering his ears, and I realized back around it, and the deer dropped. I was like, Oh my god, I got him. I was like, I was like dumbfounded because it happened like within a millisecond. And my dad's like, just stay here. If another one shows up, shoot it. So he goes running out, like he acts like a kid in the cans and runs out of the house with his gun, and his ear is about to get up, and he shoots it again. He's like, Okay, it's clear, come down. So I'm just all happy. I'm like, I got fresh deer, mate. I got fresh deer, first deer ever. And we get to the spot, and it's like, where the hell did you shoot the deer? Like, I was aiming for its ass. Oh my god. So the deer, when I shot it, it jumped like six feet in the air and peed and pooped a perfect circle where the and then dropped. And the slug went right through its can, wrecked the the stomach, the lungs, the heart, it and it shot out the pulsing, the opposite shoulder, broke the shoulder completely, and the deer was rat. Um this deer, I was probably saying it probably weighed uh like I'd probably say maybe close like 150. It was a good sized deer. Yeah, yeah. Uh I remember we basically got the I was so excited, my grandparents heard it scared the crap out of my because they were sleeping next door. He's like, Did you get one? I'm like, Yeah, I got one. He's like, Come over for breakfast. And then my dad called his dad. He's like, Hey, I want you to come over here. Jackson got his first deer. So my grandpa hauled from his house through my house, and it's like a 30-minute drive. So he got there very quickly, and he's like, Oh my god, you got your first deer. It was like the my all-time favorite memory of his child was that deer.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

That is a wild story. I I love it. Um, first of all, the fact that you shot it through the ass. Like now looking back at a bit, back at it, it's like, how many things that I do wrong there? But like just a different time. Like, yeah, like we we had a story on here. A guy was like, you know, they just got they were out hunting, they just get into the truck, and then they see a buck, so they hop out and and they shoot it and everything like that. And yeah, yeah, and like I I just think like uh times are just so different, you know what I mean? And uh you you hear uh I I I I feel like who who else like you always hear about shooting the buck uh in the ass, like you do, like a car and it does uh devastating damage, and it's always gonna like cure kill it, but it's like such a obviously frowned upon. It's just like that frontal shot with the bow, like it's frowned upon, but uh people do it, and then I've even heard stories I don't think I've or no one's admitted it yet, but like shooting deer in the in the head and everything like that. Um you know what I mean, where uh it those are all things highly usually frowned upon, but like listen, I I tell people whatever get I mean as long as it doesn't like survive, you know what I mean? Kind of like where it's gonna make the news or or something like that, then like honestly, like I can't say really anything about it.

Shot Placement Luck And Ethics

SPEAKER_01 16:29

Yeah, that's yeah, it's so it's kind of funny. So that was not uh so the the previous year after that, I didn't um I shot another doe on the same farm during gunsy, and I blew a whole size of a basketball through this doe using bone crusher, it just dropped her in her tracks, and this was like less than 10 yards, like mind you, it'll walk less than 10 yards in front, you just pull the trigger.

SPEAKER_00 16:57

But that happened with me this year with uh with the 30 odd six really blew like a huge just out of the the opposite shoulder that was just gone.

SPEAKER_01 17:07

That's crazy. But hey, if it works, it works. Like, I've I admit like with deer hunting, like a lot of people don't know about with deer hunting. Deer move in very quick, they're in and out very quick, so you have to take the shot that's given to you. I have I shot my first buck with my uncle. I shot it right in the ass. It dropped him in the tracks. I've shot deer. Is this is this also with the gun, too?

SPEAKER_00 17:34

Um that was with my 7mm8 rifle. Okay, I I think it's also like yet again, you get away with a lot more obviously with a gun versus a bow.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

You know what I mean? You wouldn't shoot you wouldn't shoot a bow, an arrow in a deer's ass. No, that's just from what you aim for a bow, um, shoulder blade for a rifle and shotgun, even muzzle, you could aim anywhere you want. It's gonna kill that deer regardless.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

Yep. Yeah, no, I I I agree with that. I mean, it's um yeah, dude, shooting, yeah, shooting a buck through or any deer through hitting it and through it through the ass, like yeah, it it's uh it's one of those shots that are uh yet again it's still frowned upon, but it's extremely efficient. Like if you look at like and everyone listening, if you're thinking about the anatomy, you know what I mean? It's it's not passing through, it's passing through uh everything. Like it's literally gonna hit everything. Now, people are probably saying, you know, obviously you get you know you're destroying the guts and you're getting all the and yeah, but also like if you get it done really quickly, you don't really have to worry about wasting you know any meat. Like honestly, exactly you're dropping it and then you're getting right, you know, right to work.

SPEAKER_01 18:56

Because like, if like with my I've shot gear with my seven Romantic mag and my custom one I bought like last year, I shot a 150-inch templar off my farm day two of Missouri raffle season, and that bullet blew through its shoulder and completely shattered the shoulder. I did lose maybe a little bit of meat, but not as much, but but it did get the job done. They only went like uh 20 yards, but it jumped over a creek and then died in the neighboring field.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

But and it always amazes me, like no matter what, when we when it's bow, when it's gun, whatever the fact that it even was able to to run, you know what I mean? Like it uh it's uh I don't think uh that will be something that always uh I don't think will never not surprise me because like yet again you hit a human like that, they're folding like a bag of bricks, you know what I mean? Like and these animals just their will just to survive is just it's just uncandy, so it's unmatched.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

I do kinda agree with that, but like also if you know like like you said the anatomy, if you know where to exactly aim at a deer, so if I'm if I'm using my rifles, I'm aiming right at the heart. It's quick, clean, it does not mess with any of the meat, and it folds them more quickly. But if you shoot them like in the gut, that deer could run 80 to 200 yards away. Yeah, it it all depends on where your shot placement's at at the end of the day, because I got lucky in the past. I've shot deer literally in the gut and they just dropped dead. I was very lucky, but at the same time, I was using a high-powered shotgun.

SPEAKER_02 20:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

That meant this 12-gauge slug is meant to it go through car doors, it could go through a tree, it's gonna it's gonna do knocking power. But yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

Yeah, yeah. No, it's and you you have that um that ability with those high powered, those really, you know, um like your shotgun, you know, the family shotgun, bone crusher. Like, you know, I mean, though it sounds like yeah, the knocking power is a stopping power behind it's gonna it's gonna knock some some things on its ass. And yeah, like it's good to be lucky when you're hunting, like it is a hundred percent good to be lucky. Yeah, you know, I mean, I I I think being lucky sometimes crazy enough out w outweighs skill. I've seen some really skillful hunters and stuff like that. And like again, if you make a bad shot or or or whatever the case, you can do everything right. But if one little thing doesn't go your way, that's where sometimes luck just comes in, and you know what I mean, and and you know, you somehow get it done without even like it's You just wonder, like, how how the hell did I get this thing done?

SPEAKER_01 22:03

Yeah, exactly. And uh also I kind of feel like through I've been hunting, like I said, I've been going hunting since I was eight, but I started hunting with firearms around. I'm like, I just turned 30. I've been hunting for like 19 years. And I do feel like with hunting, nowadays, will I shoot a deer in the can? No. But uh, I feel like you eventually like mature more you hunt and you learn from your failures, you learn from your upsets. Like, okay, going for it, I now need to aim right behind the shoulder. Or and like I do feel like it does help if you study the anatomy of a deer when you're doing shot placement, and then you know, okay, I'm hitting the moneymaker spot, it's gonna go down.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

Yeah, yeah, uh for sure, you know, and yeah, again, you know, when you're 15 and everything like that, it it's it's a big difference, you know what I mean? And um, you know, I mean, I I and for anyone listening, like at the end of the day, like whatever your your belief is, like even with those those ass shots, you got it done. It killed it, you know what I mean? Like that you got it done, you know what I mean? And that that's that's all there

Bow Setup Heavy Arrows Practice

SPEAKER_00 23:22

there is. Um, when did you start bow hunting now? Like what age were you then?

SPEAKER_01 23:26

So I've been bow hunting since I was 15.

SPEAKER_00 23:29

Okay, so same around the same.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

Yeah, same time. Um, so with me, I fell in love with outdoors at a young age. I actually outdoors hunting was such an impact on my life. It actually um basically led me to a career feel that I'm in now because of hunting. But um, I first started hunting with a bear, and then but now I'm hunting with a PSC stinger I bought in 23 brand new. Um I paid like a thousand bucks at it, but the the bow is set up right now for 70 73 pounds, and I have custom arrows from Echo Hunt. He makes the best arrows in the market, hands down. But you're our boy, our boy Zach? Yeah, he makes yes. He's my ammo, he's my arrow dealer, he's my t-shirt guy, he's my everything.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

You got the uh the final draw arrows, correct?

SPEAKER_01 24:28

Um, I got from Kool-Aid, I think.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

I think that's what you have.

SPEAKER_01 24:33

I I got a custom set. I uh I paid for 17 of them. Now I have like 25 arrows, but um they're the grain, the arrow setup is 700 grains total. It's my current setup. So with once deer season gets closer, um I'll be putting beast broadheads on at 125. So I'll be pushing close to 825 grain arrow. And my PSE shoots like a missile.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

Jesus. So why why so have you always been doing that? Well, you know, obviously, maybe probably not when you're you're 15 and everything, yeah. You weren't into the heavy arrows, but like how long have you been uh running these these heavy arrows and what kind of got you there to run it like that?

SPEAKER_01 25:24

So uh the funniest thing is when I was a little boy, uh I didn't have much money. Um basically I mainly spent all of it on firearm hunting, not really much on archery. Um I I just I love deer hunting, I love deer venison is like on point. So I bought the bow. I'm like, now I have an excuse to kill more deer and like and more have more time hunt, but uh I picked up the bought the bow in 23 because I was playing a Kaurada elk hunting trip. And at the time I was just using arrows that you find at Walmart or a local bow shop, and I was just working with it. But after I got my tape done for my bow and figure out the whole yarders thing, um I was on Instagram one day and Echo Hunt popped up, custom arrows. I'm like, hell, I'll give this guy a shot. And uh he took he told me, he's like, damn, you're shooting like 73 pounds. I'm like, yeah, I'm just I love it. I'm also I I lift weights as well. So um he's like, okay, I'll make a custom set. And I literally bought his first set of arrows of 12 of them. I wouldn't say March. Fell in love with the archery sport. I'm like, oh my god, I need more. So I just bought some uh a week ago and they just came in on Monday. But um, but I just been using that, but with that bow set up, I could hunt moose with it, hunt bison with it, I could hunt caribou with it, white tail.

SPEAKER_00 27:01

Yeah, you can you can hunt everything. Everything with that arrow set up. I think even I want to say even water buffalo in Africa. I think their minimum is like 800, or it's something like that up in in Africa.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

I think it is 800 because I saw an episode of Josh Bellmar, how he smoked one of the beast brought ahead. I'm like, okay, I must have these now. So um I'll be rocking that setup soon. But uh I what I've learned heavy, like the more poundages it, uh, the heavy it's better, honestly. Like my arrows are traveling anywhere between 270 to 290 feet per second as soon as it comes out that bow. And I shoot probably a hundred to a hundred and twenty shots a day.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

How how often are you uh getting new strings on your bow?

SPEAKER_01 27:57

So I had the strings same strings I bought in 23. So they're going on. So, like before that, I would shoot a year, probably close to 5,000, 6,000 shots a year. And I would so the those strings I have right now, I'm probably gonna replace them at the end of this year.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

Okay, all right. I mean, that's it's a whole that's a lot of shooting, but you know that that's that's also good. Like it's you're just working on your craft constantly. Um, I think to to be the most proficient because like hunter and hunter, that's that's what you need to be.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

Because like my goal is I even shot my rifles today, got him zoomed in perfectly. So, like my goal is for hunting. I'm not just hunting for trophy, I'm a meat hunter slash trophy hunter. If I see a devil first, I'm shooting her. If I see a buck first, I'm shooting it. But I want my equipment that I'm using to be so damn accurate. Yeah, then I know if I go in the woods, I know I'm getting kills up with it. That's why I put in the practice, I train so much, even I lift very heavily, so then I could eventually my goal into this year is buy 80-pound PSE bow and join the like the uh Josh Bellmar status for lifting, shooting heavy basically.

SPEAKER_00 29:19

Zach um Zach had his uh I think he's getting rid of it, but his hoy, the new hoit. Um I think it was set at 90 one or 92 pounds. Damn. But we you know, we're talking and it's it's just not ideal just because there's so much that you just cannot, you know, like when you're trying to just do a slow draw or something like that, it's uh it's not practical. It it really it really isn't, you know. And he was out hunting turkeys and especially with turkeys or or under certain situations, like yeah, that like anywhere between 60 and 80, I I think you're like good at you're you know, you're you're solid at. I think ideal is probably in that like 70 in the 70 rank, you know what I mean? Um I'm not I I'm not shooting 80. I I love my my bow that's set at 70. I have two bows, one set at 70, one set at 60. Um, and I love I love the 70. Yeah, maybe one day, you know, if I maybe one day I'm getting older, but I'd have to, I'd have to switch to like an 80, like within the next year or two before my shoulders are just shot and everything like that. But um it's I there is a thing of too much, and I think, yeah, I think 60 that's 60 and 80 is is kind of right in that that perfect perfect range.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

I kind of feel like with what what you're saying with the poundage, like the way I kind of think about it is yes, I'm shooting heavy, but um, if you could actively work out and take care of your body, you can easily shoot heavier bows. And like with weight training, especially that correlates with my um ultra marathons to Spartan race to hunting and all that. By me lifting heavy, pulling back 70 pounds used to be a struggle, but now it's just like a piece of cake, and I'm getting to a point that 70 pounds is not enough for me.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

So you also get used to it. You're you're doing it too, as as well. Like um, yeah, your your next option would be yeah, to to go up and everything like that. Like, do it until as if you can do it, do it. Do it until you know the shoulders really say, you know, no, no more. You know what I mean? And obviously, if you're you know your weight training, you're doing all this uh training and you know, probably stretching and doing everything you you need to do to take care of yourself. Like look at um look at uh what's his face?

SPEAKER_01 32:00

Uh um the game.

SPEAKER_00 32:02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

He's in his 50s, I'm probably in probably late, maybe mid-50s, late 50s.

SPEAKER_00 32:11

Yeah, um, you know what I mean, and look at him. He you know, he's he's pulling back 90. And looking at the hunts that he's going on and and and all the things that that he's doing. And you know, I I definitely do believe like you know, the better you take care of yourself working out and staying in shape and healthy and and everything like that, um gets us to do what we love to do just longer.

SPEAKER_01 32:35

Exactly. And I feel like with some archers, uh some archers might like shoot their bow maybe once every month, and then as soon as the open season gets here, they're gonna not gonna be as comfortable shooting it. So I kind of feel like it's like a two-edged sword. The more you practice at it, the better you can get at it. But if you're just gonna go maybe shoot it once, once or twice before hunting season, I feel like lower the weight is better for those types of people because and then people that are actively shooting, like Joe Spallmar or Cameron Hayes, they're shooting every day to be in the best, uh, best shape for hunting wise. I feel like heavy is the the better option. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

Now, you know, on on that, like, and yet again, like obviously what you do for for your training and for for these marathons and everything keeps you in the best tip top shape and everything like that.

SPEAKER_01 33:37

It really does. It really does.

David Goggins To Team USA

SPEAKER_01 33:40

Um, so with the whole team USA thing, is three years ago, I was uh very heavy. I would say I was probably like 220. I was like overweight, and I read a book about David Goggins. Cannot show me. I was like, if this crazy man could run 100 miles, I could run 50 miles a week. So first week I did, I cleaned my diet. It started cleanly. Second week, I started taking supplements. Third week, I started weight training, and then the fourth week I did run it, and then I added all that together. Uh within five months, I lost 60 pounds. I got like the best shape of my life. I did um the St. Louis uh race, I got second in the 5K, and I did some tough mutters, and I wasn't satisfied. So one day I was stopping by my office to pick up some paper for doing some critter work, and I told my secretary, I'm like, Hey, I want you to find a daily sport, so daily I might die in. Sign me up. Here's my credit card, have fun. Come back the next day. She took that seriously, and I was being serious. She's like, Got you a plane ticket, I got you a car, got you a place. So you're flying off to Fayeville, North Carolina, and this is um partly halfway through the Spartans race season. And the first time I was running, I this guy, I'll say he was probably seven foot tall, jumped over the log funny, and it's twisted his ankle. Like his ankle is pointing the opposite direction. And then I was keep on running, and the girl, she's probably six five, was running over the Oscar and her bone shot out of her foot, like out of her knee. I was like, oh God, but I finished the race so good, and it was like three days of racing, got good, and then the following Monday I got back home, I got an email from Team USA through Spartan race, like, hey, saw your race record, and we wanted Chew to represent USA at the World Championship in Greece. I was like, oh my god. So I was like panicking, and like just Simon took over. So that whole year I trapped critters all along, and when I wasn't trapping, I was training, and I went to the world championship, and it was 3,000 athletes, 64 nations. Like these are like the best out of the best, like Olympic-styled athletes, and it's three days of racing. Uh first day, I would say 50% of competitors are out to broken bone stress factors, you'd name it, they had it, and then remain two days of crazies. Me, we finished the two days of racing, and I got 18 in the world.

unknown 36:30

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

And that I was like, I want more. So the following last year, I the US World Championship was in West Virginia, and I got seventh in the world. So I did a huge jump from like 11 places down. So this year, the world championships in Greece, and so my goal is to be in the top top five. That's my goal.

SPEAKER_00 36:57

Yeah. What a, you know, so from your first year doing it, and and it's it's it's crazy. I and I always explain sports and all this stuff. It's so much like like uh hunting and and everything from the preseason to you know everything that goes into it and everything like that. But for you, like you know, from your first year and to getting you know where you are now and to being you know where you want to be in that top three, top, you know, and top five, you know, what do what did you see and be like, all right, this is what I need to fix. This is what I you know need to get better at. Like what what was it um for you the the adjustments that you had to make, just like an adjustment you would have to make in you know going after a a certain buck or or or the situation?

SPEAKER_01 37:50

Honestly, my I do the same. I'm just disappointed, I do the same training suggestion as I do for professional trapping. Um in the off seasons, a lot of people kind of like let them like kind of like in a way they're just focusing, they're like they're not training as much, or kind of like letting themselves go. I did in the past. So, like my session after I got done with the world championship, um, I fucked up my shoulder, I smashed into a wall, and I got shoulder lock. So I finished the race, I hopped on some steroids, and I went from like 186 to 240 within a month and a half of being on it. I fixed my shoulder within a week, and after that, I was like, okay, now it's fixed. I'm gonna start running that year. I was running uh 30 miles a day. I was doing 210 miles every week. I did that for solid. Um this is leading into the West Virginia World Championship. I I ran 210 miles a week, so that is times that by four. You're looking at 840 miles a month, and I did that for six months straight. I was eating 250 to 275 grams of protein. I was consuming probably anywhere from 15 to 20 pounds of uh beef a week and venison. So I was just grinding and I was losing weight while I was packing it on. And I just got to a point I ran so much that I all my fat on my feet dissolved. So I have special inserts on my shoes. So if I run without them, I can feel my bones from the from me running so much. And I oh my god, it was just became like a session, and I just kept on at it, and uh basically just told myself, I'm gonna do this or die trying. And that was my motto of how my body and I always say when I'm racing, if you're not dying, you're not trying. I just kept at it and then worked my way up, and I just kept pushing. So, like each year I change my regimen up completely so that my body doesn't get used to it. So this year, my motto is I wake up around 4 a.m., I run five miles, and then I go swimming the pool, I do one mile, that's 36 laps. And then after that, I without painting a beat, I do weight training for two hours, and then I go directly to work, I come home, I eat all my main foods, and I do that every day. Jesus. Yeah, so here soon I'll be taking up triathlon. So I have my first triathlon uh ended of July, first freak of July. But this year I have done I did the Florida deaf race, it's 84 miles. I did that in March. I did a uh Missouri race. I got second, I got third place, got podium. My girlfriend got second place. I've done probably close to I've done six trifectas, 18 races, 19, 20. I've done 20 races so far this year. My goal through Spartan race, you each trifecta is three races. You do the beast, the sprint, and the super. So I my goal is to do 13 of those, so that's 39 races. So I'm averaging uh summer weeks, 70 uh 70 obstacles, probably going close to like 20 to like 30 miles per race, but yeah, I'm just gonna keep keep on attacking until I can't do it.

unknown 41:56

Wow.

Building A Year Of Hunts

SPEAKER_00 41:57

And what what does it look like for you during the season?

SPEAKER_01 42:00

So for like I mean for hunting season, trapping.

SPEAKER_00 42:03

Yeah, for season for okay, for first for for hunting season and then and then trapping season.

SPEAKER_01 42:09

Okay, so this year uh I'm kind of slightly dirty. I was down in my woods, I installed a water kitty pool down there for the deer. So I'm gonna my goal is to shoot deer off of it um this September. But uh for hunting, goals hunt from September up to December. Uh my goal is to get my third Missouri rifle buck. Uh um since I started hunting with rifle this year, and then October I'm going down to North Texas to hunt on a free-ranging farm. And the guy said if a 160 to 200 inch buck shows up, you can shoot it. There's no trophy fees. Okay. Then November go down to Florida, get my Florida buck, and uh December go to Arkansas and hunt in Arkansas, the place I'm hunting in Arkansas, their bucks weigh over 250. So my goal is just kill as much deer as possible because I go through deer meat like crazy.

SPEAKER_00 43:18

Yeah, I I I can imagine doing doing what you do, like you you have to. And and then how did how did the trapping get

From Game Warden Dreams To Trapper

SPEAKER_00 43:28

get into this where now that that's your your job and everything like that? Were you were you trapping younger um at a younger age?

SPEAKER_01 43:35

So the funny thing about that, uh, my grandpa, my uh he was a big time um bird hunter, trapper, and also life hole hunter. So he when I was probably like eight or nine, he built me a handmade rabbit trap out of wood, like handmade, like this is like professional like detail, like everything. And I remember slaying the tall grass in our backyard and we saw a rabbit and we pulled the string and poof, we caught the rabbit. And um that kind of led the spark of at the time of doing something outdoors. And then once I got in high school, um there was this class called career. You basically pick which career you want to do for the rest of your life. I'm like, I'm like, everything sounds so boring. I'm like, like, I love honey. And so I'm like, what kind of career can I do? And uh a career popped up as a wildlife specialist. So uh I went to school for five years, I got a degree in wildlife conservation management. I've studied every mammal, I've studied every insect, I have studied every bird, I've studied every tree, I've studied every water soil conservation, I've studied every plant, I've and then that was for wildlife conservation management. The second degree I got was agriculture, general agriculture, because I wanted to be a farmer one day, and the third degree I got was in was in criminal justice. So at a time I wanted to become a Fed, a game warden at the moment, and I you had to have those three degrees. Yeah, I had a two, but I wanted a third degree, so I won third one.

SPEAKER_02 45:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:24

But uh I tried out for the MDC uh internship. It's basically a program for people that are interested in becoming game warden. You go ride along with game warmings, you basically experience what game warden does. So the first night I did that, uh, we were at an MDC in St. Charles and we were doing roadblock. So they had 80 plus cars were out fishing. So at the end of the day, they do a roadblock and they check your quota. So we had like a police helicopter flying overhead, like kind of like kind of a cattle trough, you funnel a kennel into the funnel. So the helicopter is chasing off the cars to funnel me into this blockade. And we hit some cars, had like over a hundred to two hundred fish way over the limit. Um, it was just crazy. And did that for a whole summer of just riding along game warnings from different counties.

SPEAKER_00 46:24

I have a quite real quick before and you're probably gonna tell us the reason, but was the reason why you didn't choose game warnings because you weren't gonna have as much time to to hunt, and then also now doing all you know, all the training and the competitions and everything like that?

SPEAKER_01 46:43

No, not at all. That was not my answer. My answer was so once I graduated from college, I tried out for the game word academy up in Justin City, and you had to get 60. I got 59.9%. I was one point away to making the cut. Um the game wardens there were very disrespectful, they were very rude uh leading up to that week, and I kind of felt like because with the game warden academy that you had to wait every four years to reapply. So the time I would have a reapply was gonna be when I was 25.

SPEAKER_02 47:24

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:25

So at the time I was like, I'm just gonna work um as a professional wildlife specialist trapping critters, it's like 80 trapping, 20 construction. And um, I was doing that at the time, and I just fell in love with it more, and did that, and but with the pay, the pay salary for game warrants, it's yeah, it's shitty. It's really if you live in a poor county, you're gonna make less than 50 grand a year. If you work in like St. Louis County, you can make over 70 70k a year. It just and also they don't cover a lot of game warrants, uh, they don't pay enough. They really don't.

SPEAKER_00 48:09

The only thing that pays enough is I believe it's Maine or in New Hampshire, but well, Maine is big time when it comes to wardens, big, big time. Um, and and I I I was talking to actually, we had a we had an event, we're talking to a couple of wardens, and they said the pay is definitely better now than what it was, but the what kills them so much is and I don't know if the it's like that in your state or or any other states, but they don't get overtime.

SPEAKER_01 48:40

That's kind of surprising. Like, I would honestly expect in game one you would make more money, but because they're risking their lives, protecting like they're saving wildlife, but um also there's a lot of game wardens that are just shouldn't be game wardens, but uh I had an incident. Um I gosh, sounds like your game warrants are real ass pieces of shit. Yeah, mine was my yeah, but I had an instance so out in Missouri you can buy your tags through the MDC app. Yeah, so I bought the tag one time uh through the through that mobile app. I saw the bang transaction come out, so I went down the woods, shot a doe, shot a doe at five yards, perfect, and then I called up my aunt. I'm like, hey, can I go up there to go shoot a bulker of doe? Because this was up in Sullivan County, I was hunting Warren County. Went up there, bought a tag over the counter at Walmart, had Amy Deer tag, uh, shot a shot a doe while she was running, got over for a slug gun she dropped, and I was at the time working as uh an NDC shooting range instructor to get my kind of foot in the door, and they were paying like oh, $7.50 an hour, not much, really not much money. But um I had a game winner show up to my house, and it was the same game that I wrote along a wrote a lot, uh wrote along with two years prior, and he's like, something doesn't add up. You bought two tags, but only one tag shows. So if anybody knows about MDC, they are like the worst uh thing when it comes to tags because their system constantly crashes all the time. So the game when it showed up, um yelled at my parents while I was in the woods doing wildlife habitat management stuff and told me I showed him the bank saying he's like that's not good enough, and slapped me with a $500 ticket, and um basically I had to pay two and a dollar court fees on top, so it was a $700 ticket total, and I showed him the proof in the court, and they were like, Okay, you had everything right, but it was not so I still had to pay it, and at the time hold on, real quick. So, even though what okay, whatever you still had to pay, even though they said you had everything right, yeah, I still had to pay the ticket so and this is like I was yeah, at that same day I tried out for an intern a full-time job making $36 an hour of teaching kids about wildlife. I was very passionate towards, and I got that ticket, showed up the next day, and they said, Because you got this ticket, you're legally not allowed to apply for MDC, you're not allowed to apply for any game warden position in any of the US states because of this ticket. And I and I was so furious because that ruined my reputable, ruined my every chance of becoming a game warden at that moment because of that damn ticket. And I'm kind of glad it kind of happened in a way, looking back now, because it opened a career path that fell in love with becoming a professional trapper through a wildlife specialist, and that led me to um for me to make my own business and such. But at the time it was just a pain in the butt. But hell, I'm a lot happier now. Um doing what I love, and I just I prefer it over a game world AD.

SPEAKER_00 52:24

That is just crazy. Yeah, now one more thing. Did that like that ticket, even though they said it was okay, but you still had to pay, did that strike count? Like, did that ticket count against you? Like for at least here, and I don't yet again, I don't know how it works in other states and everything like that. But here, if you get a ticket and whatever, you have to go five years without getting another ticket. If you get another ticket within that five years, you lose your license, I think, for your hunting and fishing license for two years.

SPEAKER_01 53:00

So, with the hunting and license portion, it did not accept it at all when it happened. It did not, my hunting thing did not accept it on it. It was a glitch on their system. They say hey, it was, but it just ruined my chances ever becoming Game War in the US.

SPEAKER_00 53:15

Which is which is crazy that still makes no sense to me.

SPEAKER_01 53:18

It it doesn't make sense because hell everyone made a mistake. And like, even like my father talked to the guy, he's like, My son does play, he does everything by the book, he follows every rule, he does everything right, and you say this one ticket's gonna like ruin his chance of becoming a game warden and forever. He's like, Yeah, he's like, with that ticket, you're not gonna be a game warden. No, no state or anything will accept you into a game warning program. Doesn't matter, they will not accept it because they can look up your history, find your ticket, and they won't honor you, they won't allow you to go in school. So at that point, I had to become a wildlife specialist at the point because I'm still in the outdoors, I still trap 365 days a year. It's I've it's more of a hobby to me.

SPEAKER_00 54:09

So now real quick, and yet again, we're we're gonna have to get you on for to do a whole other trapping episode later later on because uh trapping does fascinate me and everything like that.

SPEAKER_01 54:22

Oh yeah, no problem, sure thing.

SPEAKER_00 54:24

But so you you go from that to you know wanting to to be game warning to getting completely screwed over, even though you did nothing wrong, yeah. And then how long after till you till you found that, and then you know, kind of what your day-to-day looks like or what your your schedule would look like as a as a full-time trapper?

SPEAKER_01 54:48

So

Daily Life As A Wildlife Specialist

SPEAKER_01 54:49

um basically I looked up that job a year later. Um year later, I uh started my business from ground zero and such. But my daily life is uh wake up around 4 a.m., go run three or five miles, go swim 36 laps in a pool, and then go weight training for two hours and then finish it up uh doing Sarah Master level 15, and I would do a mile, 40 flights of stairs in five minutes. And then I would shower up, go to work, and I would work a full 10-day, 10-hour day, and then I'll come home and basically write a report of all the stuff I did today. And because with my job uh setting traps as a wildlife specialist, what you do is you set up traps prior. So a lot of companies in the area will actually only come out twice every two weeks. My company is different. I come out there Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Tuesdays and Thursdays are more for like emergency jobs, like someone calls, like, hey, I need you right now, those are set for those days. But um, I set traps on Monday, I let them sit overnight, and I check them on Wednesday, and 98% of my business is bull trapping. The remaining 2% is raccoon, coyote, armadillo, bats, snakes, chipmunks, squirrels, everything else. So um, with how it relates to hunting and trapping, is because I studied mammalogy, I could walk on someone, probably identify the critter by the feces, by the claw marks, before I ever see the body. So for with my ex in scouting, I figure out which direction the moles are coming in, where they're bedding out my set traps coronally, and I will catch them within 24 hours. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 56:48

Okay, all right, that's pretty cool. That's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 56:53

It's a lot of fun, um, especially from someone that trapping, how it correlates with construction is way with if a raccoon or a squirrel did any damage. So with a raccoon, not a lot of people know a raccoon will put their hand up right in front of a root, and they could feel the cold and warm air difference in their pulse. And once they figure out what that they'll actually start digging to make the hole bigger and they'll actually go inside attics. But if a raccoon chewed through your lubriven or got underneath your gutter or anything, I will come in, I will make a professional bid, I will take a piece of paint from your house, I'll go to my local paint shop and I'll match that paint, and then I'll build it brand spinking new, paint it, and it'll make it look like it never even happened.

SPEAKER_00 57:45

Wow, that's pretty cool. That that that's pretty pretty unique. You're a very interesting guy. You do you have a lot of uh oh my god, uh trades and and everything like that. That that you do.

SPEAKER_01 57:58

I do. I'm actually reading a book about it, my crazy life of chef. In college, I was during the day I climbed trees, and all and at night I made beer, and I was also a line chef. So I was working three jobs and uh and I've done roofing before. I've done some some electrical only thing I haven't done is plumbing yet.

SPEAKER_00 58:23

Yet I I like how you just said yet. Yet. Um wow, that that's crazy.

Dream Hunts Favorite Meat Heroes

SPEAKER_00 58:31

Um, well, we're we're getting close, and an hour has flown by. Um, I got I got a few more questions for you. Oh, no problem. If you could, and this is the big one, everyone probably knows who's been listening to us, probably knows what what's coming. If you could hunt two weeks, money is not an option. What's your dream hunt? Dream animal, and where?

SPEAKER_01 58:56

Oh, so if just you're right, if money was an option, I could hunt animal anywhere I want for two weeks. Could I do multi-species or am I just allowed one?

SPEAKER_00 59:08

You I people always ask that you can like pick your number one, and then if it like for me, uh you gotta get everyone knows it's Alaska, float, river, two weeks, bull moose, and I would I would take a grizzly tag, like if I could get a grizzly tag with that. Like, so like, but my ultimate is a moose, the secondary in that hunt would be like a would be like a grizzly or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 59:33

Okay, so okay, now I have an idea. So my dream hunt is go to Alberto to hunt a running moose mid-November with a rifle. Um, the funny story about this is I actually planned the hunt last year, but I had to cancel it. But I have it. It's like I've the price thing was not the issue. It's just the only issue I have with hunting, killing it, it's no problem. It's just getting in the meat across Canada and US state lines is the issue because you what I've learned is if you ever go hunting, you have to have more than two people because each person's only allowing so much weight of meat across. Yes, yep. So that's like the only thing holding it back. But if I had to choose in-states hunting, I would preferly go to uh Pennsylvania and do a raffle bull hunt. Probably like third week of October.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:42

That's a good one. That's a that's a one and that's a one and done now. Yeah, it's or go or going to be a one and done. I don't know if they switched over or it is.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:50

Um they have switched over. Um, basically, I'm applying for the tag uh on Monday. But it's with Pennsylvania bull tag for resident and non-resident. You if you already got the bull tag in the past, you can't get anymore. It's a once in a yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But with cows, I feel like it's like the opposite, but don't quote me on it. I think you can get as many cal tags as you want, but you have to wait so many years after you got your first cal tag.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. Um, cool, cool. If for for you, if you I guess because you you kind of do so much, like, is your ultimate your favorite thing whitetailed, or like can you or do you love trapping? What like what is your one thing that you really love to do that? Like, if you only had the option to do one for the rest of your life, what would it be?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:49

Oh damn, that that's a very that's like the hardest question. No one has ever asked me that question. This is like my second time on a podcast. Um, I really love trapping because I'm very good at it, and uh, but I also love hunting so much. I would honestly choose hunting over trapping just because with honey you could kill a lot more different animals. With trapping, you could only kill smaller mammals, like coyotes and below. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But to answer, yeah, to answer your question about the my favorite. I heard elk taste amazing. I heard mule deer tastes amazing, I heard black bear tastes amazing. Oh, oh I really, really want, even though I eat a lot of deer, I would love to go hunting with Steve Rennell Mannier to Alaska and like hunt blueberry hunt black bears.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:55

I just eat blueberries. Yeah, the the blueberry back. I I'll let me let me first of all before everyone's probably like oh, he's gonna talk about it again. Black bear meat, it is probably my number two favorite. Really?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:07

Is it that good?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:08

Yeah, I love it. Yet again, it's it depends on what they eat. Like here in Jersey, you have to be careful. The garbage bears, like you know, if you're hunting close to a dump or something like that, those bears probably are not gonna taste good. If you're eating bears that we don't really have to worry about this, but say we had a salmon run or something like that running through New Jersey, and they're just constantly eating fish, I can see that bear not tasting good. But for the most part, bears are phenomenal. Um elk's phenomenal, moose is phenomenal, love it, bison is phenomenal.

Who He Would Hunt With

SPEAKER_00 1:03:43

Um, and you kind of already answered my my next what was gonna be my next question. If you can hunt with anyone, you know. Now I'll I'll throw a twist on it. Okay, because I feel like you know, and I've I've asked this question before. If you can hunt with anyone, uh dead or alive, one one hunt, and it could be anyone, and to to do a two-parter, if you have somebody say a relative or something like that, that you wish, you know what I mean, then you can have the relative and then also somebody else, whether it's famous, athlete, who whoever.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:23

Okay, okay. I think I gotta answer now. Um, so even though I go hunting with my dad a lot, I do enjoy hunting with him, but uh I feel like there's always that special bond when you hunt with grandpa. So, like my grandpa passed away very young. He passed away in uh I wanted to say 2019. So I want to say 2019, he passed away due to Alzheimer's and dementia. But um he was taken away so young when he was. I never got a chance to go actually go um deer hunting with him and harvest my first ever deer with him. Um I would probably hands down pick my grandpa mite because uh I just feel like he was kind of cut on the surf too short. I didn't really he didn't really experience the man I became today.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:22

Yeah. So no, I I'm I'm right there with you. Uh definitely for sure, right there with you with with my grandpa, grandpa, and everything like that. Um but um yeah, no, I mean I I think we we we definitely end it there. I mean that that's uh the perfect uh segue to to end it. And you know, it's you are a man of after talking to you for this last hour, you're a man of mystery. Um it was uh it was an absolute pleasure um getting to talk to you, and um definitely we'll we're gonna run it back for trapping season.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:01

Oh, I would really hope so for trapping season. And like honestly, um thank you for giving me the chance of getting on the podcast. Um it's I feel like hunting podcasts is like I like how you kind of bring people from different states to tell them their hunting story and all that, and I feel like uh I'm just blessed to get the chance to do it. I I truly blessed that hunting has changed my life in so many ways. But um, I really enjoyed this podcast because this one seemed more simple, the more lined up everything, and I really look forward in the future hearing back for you about trapping because I got tons of trapping stories.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:48

You definitely, definitely. That is um I eventually plan to get into trapping. Like the trapping is is probably one of my next like big things I want to accomplish in the outdoor industry. And you know, I think it's highly important. Obviously, you can definitely, you know, testify to that. Um you know, and we'll we'll obviously dabble like onto all into it and and everything like that when we do our our trapping episode together and everything like that. But um yeah, it it's something that I I fully do believe in. Um, and that has to make a comeback too. Like we do need way more people trapping and everything like that. So any way that us here at Boondocks Hunting can, you know, get trappers on and talk about trapping and and just really get it out there um the better. Um, but it's been a like I said, it's been an absolute pleasure. Um, you know, I mean this this was a real fun one. Um really looking forward to the next one.

Wrap Up And How To Connect

SPEAKER_00 1:07:53

Everyone, I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. It was a great time. We will have so many more stories the next time that that we're on. Um, if you have any questions, uh Jackson's Instagram is going to be in the description below, whether it is literally about hunting, trapping, you know, his awesome stories that that he was able to tell, or also if you're actually interested in in competing and and stuff like that, um, you know, and and maybe how to get started or or whatever the case is, um Instagram will be right in the right down in the bottom. Um any last words?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:37

Um my if you're not so my last words is basically just go outside, shoot your bow, enjoy nature, and just anytime you feel sad, just go outside and have fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:53

100%. I I back that. Well, everyone, uh we hope you guys enjoy this episode, and we will see you guys next time.