SPEAKER_00 0:00

This is the Garden State Outdoors and Podcast. Built on early alarms, muddy boots, and stories that only the woods can write. New Jersey is one of the most underappreciated states in the outdoors. And little do they know what it really holds. From hard-earned public land deer to waterfowl, predators, and everything in between. This state produces more than people give it credit for. Now let's dial in with the men and women around the state of New Jersey who live this life every day. In New Jersey, excuses don't survive. Only the grinders do. Alright, everyone, we are back for another episode of the Garden State Outdoors and podcast presented by Boondocks Hunting. I am your host, Mike Nitran. And today we got Chris Ginder from Big A Deer. Welcome to the show. Welcome. Glad to be here. No, no, we're really, really happy to have you. It's funny how we met. Like we were we were at the um the jerk that Jersey show. Yeah, and uh actually Jer Gerard put me in. He's like, hey, like a you know, great guy, like you know, he spoke highly of you, and I went over uh to introduce myself, and you know, um really really looking forward to to getting down and and talking.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Yeah, definitely, dude. No, it was it was good, it was a it was a good event. I mean, yeah, seeing all the people and everything and seeing everybody there.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

And I I think like we we were a lot of us were talking, like I and I know that specific, they move it all around, but they should just keep it there. I mean, that was the perfect like location. It beautiful. I mean, guys, you needed, I think the membership was like forty thousand dollars or something.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

It was like 30. I think, yeah, I think it was like 30 grand.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

Yeah, just to be a member, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

And just that establishment alone is just insane. Like the you just walk through their showroom, and it's like I feel like I'm in like Cabela's showroom, the fourth camera.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

It's that's that thing was it was one of the I didn't know we had anything like that in New Jersey.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

I've lived down the street from it and I've hunted on like pretty much. Yeah, so where I grew up was a mile two probably two miles down the street from them for my entire life. And I no idea, I had no idea they were even there. I've heard bits and pieces, rumors, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

And then finally, 40 years later, yeah, go over there, and I'm like, yo, this is insane. Yeah, I heard um, I think some of the some of the workers there are like the people that live right next door, the the guys that benefit from you know hiding market if you could have a piece of property, right? And like obviously I'm not talking about like any type of piece, but if you could pick just a small little piece to hunt in that area, I'd want to be right next door where my land butts up, literally right next to you to that land.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

Where I where I hunt it, hunt that well, I not now. I mean, I still do to this day, but yeah, not as much as I want to over there. But uh yeah, back in the day, oh my god, like you could once that rut started hitting, and or like from that October, it was the deer would come from over over on his property, they would come over, and they would just be running in the in the um the power lines, and they would just stay right in the power line, yeah, and it would just oh my god, they amounted it just oh just trying to even get back at them. It's like just seeing them is like you feel like you're like out west somewhere, and then you're like, Yeah, this is insane. Yeah, it's it was it was intense.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

I I heard there's some uh monster deer. There's some monsters over there. They got they got everything. Um, you know, I guess for for 30 grand, like if I was hunting there, I would, yeah, uh they would probably kick us out because we you know, uh, but like, yeah, I would I would shoot some big deer. I would shoot all the big deer I can, shoot all the freaking the big bears I can, all the does that I can. Like, I would I'd probably live there. I would literally probably probably end up living.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Oh, for 30 grand, for 30, 40,000 a year membership.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Yeah, I would that that's us saying it with the money that we make. Those people that have those memberships.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

Yeah, they they make that in like a week, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:34

Yeah, that 30 grand or 40, you know, whatever the the case is, is absolutely that's like a us going on a lease for like a thousand dollars. Correct, you know what I mean? That's that's exactly what it is. Well, but Chris, uh, why don't you give yourself a a quick uh introduction for those who who may not know you? So my name is Chris Ginder.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

I own a company called Bigadier Corn Coating Attractant. Uh what we do is it's I'm pretty much it's simple. It's when you bait and you put uh say your corn out, anything, and it doesn't matter what you do, it can be uh corn, soybeans, whatever you bait with. We take you take that and we add a powdered formula that we that I made, and we you just throw it on top of it, it's all flavored, and they got they go absolutely out of their minds for it. And okay, yeah, it's it's it's actually crazy how they react to it. So, yeah, so I've been doing this for the past uh three years. I started doing it because out of not really trying to out of really pretty much seeing a deer that wouldn't come into my bait, and that's how it started. And and ever since that day, I was like, dude, what what am I doing? This isn't zane. Because we all bait, we all sit there, we all everybody around here baits like crazy. So they can just go to one corn pile to another corn pile to another corn pile, and they can just bounce around and and they could just feed whenever. So I and I hunt public lands, so I was like, I gotta try to figure out how to get these deer to my site more than they are going to other people's sites. So that's how I started coming up with ideas and figuring stuff out and trying to get uh concoctions made and looking online and just going absolutely crazy. So, and that's how I just started making it, and and then I started my this business, and it's actually been really good so far.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

So good. Love to hear that. Um, you know, and we'll we'll definitely dive more in into that in in a little bit. Um, you know, more more about yourself right now. Like, so you grew you grew up obviously New Jersey, two miles or so. Two miles.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

I grew up I grew up in Stanhope, okay, New Jersey. So it's like 45 minutes away from Pennsylvania. Oh, yeah. Like it's more towards like uh yeah, it's more towards like off 80 down that way. Yeah, Blair Blairstown area. Yeah, like the Blairstown area. Yeah, so I grew up there my entire life, hunted. Oh my god, since I was thinking I was five, when I could really start going in with my father and really start going in and doing everything like that. So, and then ever since then, really honing in on it, and then probably when I really started doing it was when I was like a senior in high school. That's when it was like okay, and all right kicked in. Yeah, it came. I was doing it, but between doing sports and doing this and running all over the place, you never had time to do anything. And but where my high school was to where my hunting stand was was two miles down the street. And I would just be like, Okay, dude, I got I gotta go, I gotta get out of here. So, yeah, when school would end, I would leave and I just go hunting.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

And ever since that day, that was it. Any anyone else at school, big time hunters or or anything like that?

SPEAKER_01 8:24

They they were. I mean, there was probably a good handful. Okay, probably a good handful of of them really did it, and then it was all like just like once everybody knew who everybody was, and then trying to hang out, and then when everybody would go hunting together, they would go, we'd just be going nuts. We go out out of the world.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:51

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:52

Uh what were some? So you grew up in basically you grew up in a hunting family and everything like that, five years old from from the time you could like, you know, what was one of your earliest memories of like heading out into the woods?

SPEAKER_01 9:07

Probably I would probably have to say when I was probably when I was like probably seven, seven years old, got into one of the homemade stand that we made, and got up there and it was freezing cold. And I'm just like I couldn't move because it was so cold. So I had a sleeping bag. My dad got me a sleeping bag that we had to put on me, and we climbed up the stand, got in the sleeping bag, and hung out, and we're up sitting there freezing. And it was like I think it was like around like uh nine o'clock, I would have to say, like right when everything's starting to heat up and getting in. I'm like, we gotta go, we gotta get out of here. I can't, I can't be in here anymore. That's so cold. He's like, five more minutes. Sure enough, he goes, All right, fine, we gotta go. We get out of the stand. I start walking down the stand down the ladder. Here they all come up the stand. Here they all come up the hill. They're starting running up the drainage right there. And I'm like, he's like, I told you five more minutes. They would have shot him right there. I'm like, damn, my toes are so cold, I can't do anything about this. And yeah, those, yeah, that was probably my earliest memory of starting it off.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

Dad's like, damn, I shouldn't have brought the kid to God.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

I just wanted to shoot this something. I wanted to bring something home today. I knew you were gonna be there.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

Oh man, you know, it and it it's it's crazy, especially. I feel like at that at that time was um was your dad mostly gun hunting at the time. Like I don't know what bow hunting really looked like at the time in the stage.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

So my father started gun hunting back in the day because bow with him was nothing, he didn't really, it wasn't a thing, he never really got into it. That's right. So then, yeah, yeah, he was more of just like a shotgun when shotgun week was coming, or back in the day, however, however, they did it back then. I don't really know, but he really got into shooting like uh small game because his his uncle and his uh grandfather his yeah, his uncle and his uh grandfather um were doing it. So when they started doing it, that's how he got into it, and then really started shotgun hunting from then on. So then once the bows really started getting going, he started was like, Oh, what's this? And then he started really getting into it, and then that was it. And ever since then, he was just hooked because then it was a longer period of time to go hunting now. So instead of doing a couple two days or a couple a week or however he was doing it, now he's got a whole season, and then he can go.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

Yeah, I I I think you you hear that constantly. Like, I mean, so many of the guys I've I've talked to, especially you know, at least here in the state of New Jersey, where I'd consider it like, yeah, you still have that huge crazy number of people that go out for gun week and everything like that, but like New Jersey is just such catered to the bow hunters, like it there's there's nothing like it. Um, you know, I would I would consider this is a bow hunting state uh it really is. Um and you know, but back then, yet again, you look at probably the whole country, the traditions were gun hunting, you know what I mean. You you go out even for a couple days or or whatever that is, like like like you're saying, and you that's the tradition. And but once people like caught on to like, yeah, wait, why am I gonna you know only spend a couple days and also the the coldest part of the season when I could chase these deer from you know, I don't know when they when they started back then, but let's just say even if it was just October 1st, I don't know when it was probably like the end of because I think when I started really doing it, we it was the end of September.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

Okay, I remember it was like the last weekend of September, I think when it started, and then once the early season started, once they once they had started having those more those zones where you could hunt earlier, like and then that was it, and then and then now you can hunt Sundays, so now it's just full blown and it's yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

Yeah, yeah, it's it's I I love it. Like I I truly do. I mean, there's a there's a few states that start early, you know, uh not many that start earlier than us. I'd say only like a really small handful. Um, but uh there's nothing like it. I think it was such a wise decision for New Jersey to do that. Um, especially if you just want you know deer gone, you know what I mean? And obviously that's pretty that's pretty like you you look at our our regs, and it's that's what it's catered to. Um you know, and I don't know that that I can never like it's me and my me and my buddy, you know, the one I was talking about before, um, that does the whole eBay, and it's like we're I think we're really thankful for growing up in this state, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, growing up in the Midwest for a hunting purpose would be so cool, but your expectations is to shoot 160s, 170s, 180s, but only shoot one or two two deer, you know, you're really not going too crazy with doughs, like um, you also don't have as much yeah, you could shoot like three deer and just yeah, okay, I'm done.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

And then I can be done with a week, and it's like, okay, whatever versus deer, and then you can another tag, but here it's my zone. I could shoot unlimited dose. Yeah, but shoot it, another one walks in, shoot it, another one walks in, shoot it.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

Just keep just let it fly. I tell people I hate it, I hate that they just say unlimited because it's like even like because I uh spot in Blairstown, I think it was five per season, so that ends up being like, I don't know, freaking if we're just gonna do bow, then it's gonna be 15, right? I still can't shoot 15 season. Yeah, it's crazy. So, like, I would like for them to to get limited rid of it saying unlimited, you set it to seven per season or or whatever the case is. Like, because like I feel like even I mean, yet again, there's probably private properties, yeah, where guys are shooting just so many, but it's like unlimited. Like, I don't know. I just don't like the word unlimited.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

I think, like, I think the most that I've probably shot in one season with probably like three, three goes in a season. Like, yeah, unless unless you're sitting there with the gun and you could just write rack it off every time they walk in and shoot like a hundred of them in one sitting, like yeah, it it doesn't fit, it doesn't really fit for the bow hunters.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

I mean, unless you would literally have to be on a piece that has just like the dough to buck ratio, just has to be like insane, which I which I know there's zones that I mean and areas that do, and farms that do, but I I definitely get it, but then also you look at it too, like man, that's a lot of arrows. That's a lot of broad heads. That's a lot of money, dude. Like that's a lot of money.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

It's like I don't know between the broad head and then the arrow, and then you're like, Oh, do I really want to shoot him? And then it's like, do I really want to field dress this thing out right now? Do I really because now that's another hour on top of it?

SPEAKER_00 16:45

I would I would like to do a hunt one year where a whole bunch of us are out and we just do like a dough day and with the bows, and we just donate, you know, all that meat and everything like that. Uh, they they do some stuff out of there out in Michigan and everything like that, where they they do uh they just hunt doughs and donate it and everything like that. But I I think that'd be pretty cool. But yeah, like gutting deer has gotten so fun, like because it's you get better and better at it. Like I when I first started, I needed it. I hated it.

SPEAKER_01 17:18

Don't hit stomach, but think, oh no, yeah, whatever you do, don't hit this pouch right here. What do you mean? No, don't hit it. All right, you want to hit it? Yeah, what is it? And then you hit it.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I shot a I shot a doe last year gun season on PA, uh, my first uh PA deer for a rifle, and I had to shoot it twice, and where it just ripped open the stomach where it was just like a 30 out of six, with just literally that that was probably the most difficult one because then it gets everywhere, it's everywhere and and you can't clean it like the trying to clean it out. Oh my god, I've never had that issue with Archer, and and that's why I love shooting. Like, yes, have I nicked the stomach myself, and don't mean wrong, I have shot deer in the guts and everything like that, but yeah, uh at the end of the day, like a 30 odd six round versus you know, my my sever broadheads, it's still two completely different two things. Um, you know what I mean? But I couldn't imagine gutting like I don't know more than like three or four deer in within like an hour time period. Like that's gotta be like just so over it, just so over it.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

It's like all right, I need a week just to recoup because it's enough. Yeah, um, it's all that's a lot, especially but especially when you know how to do it, and you just are like, okay, it's this, this, cut it here, cut it there, get it up, get in the just and just rip out the that's it, and it's that fast.

SPEAKER_00 18:55

But it's like between doing one, and it's like, all right, one's fine, but then you have like three more to do, and you're like, oh my god, I give the butchers credit, like who just pure butchers where they're just doing the same thing over and over. I mean, yet again, I guess you know, you're getting paid to do it, so like it can't be the worst thing in the world, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 19:15

But like there's like a craft to it, too. Like to butcher it. You there, I don't, dude. I've tried it and I'm like, no, no, I I'll not nope.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

I'm not rather rather rather drop it off of the butcher and just you do it.

SPEAKER_01 19:30

Here's take my money, yeah. Give it to me back in like two days. What is it? A hundred dollars. All right, great, whatever. Here you go. It's cheaper than going out to the store and getting because like what it what is it? Like, I think it's like five pounds. I think like for a pound of meat, it's like I don't even know what you're saying. I think it's like six.

SPEAKER_00 19:47

No, I know it's expensive.

SPEAKER_01 19:49

I know, like we were looking at it's still cheaper for a whole deer than to go out to the store and get even if you get the whole deer burgered up, yeah. The whole thing burgered, it's still cheaper than going to the grocery store doing it.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

My biggest issue, and I need to what costs me so much is I always like to get spell, especially on the first year. I always say the first deer, I'm usually gonna get specialty cuts. That always ends up cost me because I get you know um baloney or tailor ham or whatever the specialty stuff they usually do. I always do that with that deer, hot dogs and stuff like that. After that, it starts to get into you can ground almost the whole entire thing, just save me the back straps or something like that. Just so much. I would like to find a place that has bacon that's close to me.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

I've heard about they do it out in Indiana. Oh, yeah. There's a company that does it out in Indiana, and yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:52

I had Taylor Ham for the Taylor Ham for the first time this year, and it was great. Taylor Ham? Yeah, yeah. I had a butcher do Taylor Ham this year. It was good, so good. Uh so like that sounds really good. What one of my favorites, one of but yet again, it's expensive, so it's like uh something, but you know, at the time, it's like a what the hell? What the hell? You're gonna have it once, so what what the hell? Um, but all right, so you go from that first hunt freezing, your dad, ruining your dad's hunt, yeah, pretty much, yeah. Yeah, um what what was it? So when did you get out for yourself like personally yourself? Like how much longer? What were the rules really then? So you could you could go out with dad at seven, but you couldn't.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

It was like I go out, but I couldn't hunt. Yeah, I couldn't hunt, I was just out there with him just to get um experience, pretty much just understand what's going on. This is what we do, well, the whole nine yards. So when I could Really start going out. I think I was like 10. I think the rules were like it could have been 10. I don't I don't know. But I think I was like maybe 10 years old. And I could really and then that's when I can get my hunting license and really start shooting and start doing everything. And then that's when we started practicing and shooting the target, showing me where where you need to hit them, what you need to do, how how you need to do it. And then opening day, two does walk in right where this the same stand that I freeze my you know what off. So two does walk in, and I'm shaken. I'm so nervous. I couldn't even hold the bow. I'm like, I don't even know what to do. My mind's just blank, and all I hear is pull the bow back and just aim. And I was like, okay, and pulled the bow back, put it on her, hit it, and it went right over her back. I'm like, oh no. And I'm still, I'm still I'm shaking because I think I hit this thing. I don't know nothing. And then she turned around and came right back to where we were. And I drew again. Finally, my nerves somewhat calmed, and then that's when I hit her. And she probably piled up like 50 yards, 50 yards away. And then that was it. And ever since that day, when I saw that dough and got those pictures and everything like that, I still have that picture to this day. And I love that. That was it, man.

SPEAKER_00 23:31

And that was like I would say one of my favorite stories from doing this show is when people tell me they always shot over a deer or they went through a whole freaking quiver of arrows on their first year. You know, I I think that you know that it's such a learning, learning lesson. Like it really is, but that's that's how things go.

SPEAKER_02 23:54

Yeah, that's how things go do exactly.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

I I say it constantly on this show, and I will say it until I'm a hundred years old, probably. And when I have kids, or or I don't want anyone their first time out or whatever, drilling 160 inch deer, right? Is it cool? Yes, yes. No, like and yet again, that's why it's so great living in Jersey or on the East Coast, because you don't you don't really get those opportunities. You know what I mean? You're you're shooting at a dough or a spike buck or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 24:27

And especially and especially when you're that young, yeah, you don't care what comes in, you just wanna your mind is more focused on and that I want to kill something, I want to shoot something, that's what I want to do. And your expectations are we're gonna go out here opening day and we're gonna shoot something. And then the problem is that when you go out there opening day and you're sitting there and nothing comes, you're like, Oh, what are we what are we gonna do? It's like you well, this is how it goes, dude. You don't just walk out in the woods and just shoot 10 of them, or you shoot the one of them. It's it's this is how this thing's go.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

Yeah, that's that's exactly what I tell people. I I think it's like for me, like I struggled hard. Like, I I went like a year and a half, two years without killing anything, close encounters, misses, like stuff like that. And you know, I then caught fire, shot a whole bunch of deer, did great for years, and then I had a year a couple, like maybe like three years ago, or three, four years ago, where shouldered a deer and just like was always one step behind on big bucks, and like all these different things, but it's like all right, I'm not gonna quit because this I already know that this this is what it's like. Like, I've already gone through the grind and the suck, and like these are the extra disappointment is what gets it.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

It's just like it's like you're just like, I don't think there's anything like it, like that will bring your emotions down quicker than trying to have a buck in front of you, and you shoot that thing, and you or you miss it, and you're just like um god, and you're just like, yeah, it's it's the probably the worst feeling in the world, or even or even like hitting it and then not finding it, or like wounding it, it's like, oh my god, you dude, the emotions that you get is it's it's it's it's secondary, it's something crazy, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:24

And and that's what and that's why I tell people, like, yeah, I like I said, like I tell I don't know what if you know, like I grew up playing hockey very high level, you know. I I was in I lived up in Quebec a little bit, did the Pee-wee Quebec tournament up there, which is huge. Could you have like 12 year old, like 12, 13 year olds, where you know, we played the hometown team and the Coliseum, which I think the Coliseum can fit like 40,000 people, and I think at our game that day, I think we were at like 10 between 10 to 12,000 people in attendance as little ads, like little kids. Um, and I'm pretty sure it was it was a morning game, like a super early morning game. You know, we were hearing from the locals like if it was going to be a night game because it was a hometown team, it the whole arena would have been packed. Um, and I I've I've won a state championship for for high school, played at Prudential Center in front of like I don't know, probably like five, probably like 5,000 people, uh, which to me was a lot bigger. I was a lot older. I was eight, I was 18. Like, we're at the prudential center, like a huge chunk of our town was there, like the whole almost the whole entire school was there, and like just especially being on that stage out over here, you're on that stage, and everything. We won an overtime, um, won the state championship, and I'll tell you, like, that was a huge adrenaline, but I always compare it as the reason why nothing compares to hunting is because if you're playing a sport, especially hockey, football, basketball, you know, as much as I hate to say it, soccer, um your adrenaline is up the whole entire game, you know. I mean, from basically start to finish, you're you have a huge adrenal rush. Hunting is you have a low, and you have a low majority of the whole entire time. Whole entire time. And then when he's yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

So when they walk out in front of you, your your your low just goes straight up, and it's like, but you have to, and what I tell what I tell people, like even like uh like younger people and like other like older people, whatever, what I've had to learn is even when I was uh when I went out elk hunting last year, you have to hone in on just figure out that you this is all you're you're gonna just want to shoot this thing. This is you. You you're out there to kill this elk, or you're out there to kill this deer, and your emotions cannot take over. When you're emo when you kill whatever, or you let that arrow fly, let your arrow let your emotions run wild. But if you can hone in on that little bit between they walking, them walking in, you shooting them, and them finally leaving and running away. If you can have that and figure out that you can sink your emotions for a matter of maybe 30 seconds, yeah, yeah, you got it. Like, that's that's it.

SPEAKER_00 29:37

I I I always tell people, like, people are like, Well, what's your process? I literally I have to do this. Like, if I know, like, there's times where I've killed, I've killed a couple of big deer, um, and I just haven't been able to get that adrenaline rush because it happens just so quick, and my mind is going so like I'm like, all right, grab my bell, do this, do that. I'm also filming half the time, too. So it's like, all right, get the film stuff ready, you know. But like winter bow this year, I don't know what it was about a winter. First of all, there's like 30 deer in front of me, so like I couldn't even move. I had like my my goal is to shoot a big six, and I had a big six coming in, and I don't know if it was just because it was winter, but whatever. But that adrenaline rush, like literally, you when you just feel the your heart just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, and you can just feel it, and just like you start to get the shakes. Like, I close my eyes and I take deep breaths, I go relax. You've been here before, you've done this for before. Concentrate, just don't even don't even worry, right? You we have to get you have to shoot the thing first, but you have to get past that point before you can start shaking and start doing it. Yeah, yeah, you have to get past correct this point, you know. I mean, and I I love that you said like use that wording too, because I think that's the big killer that a lot of people have is like they some of those people cannot get past that point because their shakes are so bad, or yeah, that's when I've been there. Everyone's been there.

SPEAKER_02 31:14

Everybody's been there.

SPEAKER_01 31:15

It's just it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter who you are. If you have a bow in your hand, there's a deer walking in, and if you're not shaking, dude, you then I I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 31:25

There, there definitely is no better feeling. Um, I really, I really don't there, it's just pure, it's like an emotional roller coaster, it's very emotional, really is.

SPEAKER_01 31:38

It is the most, I don't know, dude. Uh I you're taking a life at the end of the day, yeah. And I think that's at the same time, you're respecting that animal as well as while you're doing it, too. So it's like, yeah, you know what you're there for, you know what you need to do, and you do it, and then it's like, oh my god, and then laying your hands on after being after something for so long, and then finally being able to you're the pretty much you're the only person that's probably ever touched that animal ever. So you touching him and really sitting there for a moment and really respecting him or her or whatever you shot, it's like yeah, it takes a toll on you.

SPEAKER_00 32:20

Well, what was it like, you know, being at that young age and walking up to that doe? So your first doe kill, you know. I mean, you know, what what do you remember for for yourself? Like, I remember like the first time I walked up, like I couldn't believe that it was dead, it was alive, yeah. Probably, yeah, I would have to think it.

SPEAKER_01 32:39

Like, I didn't realize like what I I know what I did, but I didn't it didn't like register, yeah. It wasn't like it wasn't like, wait, what did I just do? No, wait, huh? This doesn't make much sense to me. And then once I realized it, I was like, oh, oh, all right, okay, I I I get it, I I understand it, but then it went and then after like shooting that first year and then really understanding it, but then what really what really did it for me was when my father told me, goes, You did absolutely nothing wrong. So you taking this life, you did nothing wrong, you did this for a purpose, and I was like, Okay, but it took me years to realize what the purpose was, and then that's when and then but knowing that oh we're doing this for a reason, and this is okay, that was it, and then I realized everything after that, it was like okay, yeah, all right, we're we're good, yeah. But yeah, I love that too. Even sitting there with even sitting there with the deer, yeah, and for the first time, oh yeah, I was I was probably crying like a baby. I was so happy, just like over the moon, but didn't realize what I just did, and you're just like, Oh my god, and then real and then, yeah, yeah, and then but then knowing that I was like, Okay, well, we can can we take this now? Let's go, let's go bring it home. And he's like, No, we gotta gut this thing out. He's like, Well, what do you mean? What do you mean we gotta cut this thing out? No, no, there's work to be done, let's do it.

SPEAKER_00 34:19

Did he show so? How did that go? How did was that your first gutting experience?

SPEAKER_01 34:24

Yeah, so that was like he showed me what to do, like he showed he like we went through the process of how to do it, what to do, really understanding it. And then I think the next time we went out, I didn't shoot a deer. He was he shot he shot a buck, and then he was like, Okay, remember what you we did last time? I go, Yeah, yeah, he's like a lot. Here we go, let's do it. Here's the knife. Go ahead, do it. And I'm like, what do you mean, do it? What what are you talking about? He's like, do it. What did I show you? How did I show you last time what to do? He goes, Yeah, do you remember how to do it? Yeah, okay, do it.

SPEAKER_00 35:08

So that's when you that was it when you least expecting it, he threw you into the fire to do it, and on a buck too, and on a buck to on his buck, but then he was like, No, don't do it this way, do it this way.

SPEAKER_01 35:21

But the good thing is, and I re and and even like with my kids getting them into it, yeah, it's more of like, here, you need to do this. I can't do this for you because one day you're gonna be out in the woods, yeah, and you're gonna be by yourself, and I'm not gonna be there. You're gonna have to do this yourself when you get older, so you need to learn this. And then ever since then, it was like, Well, I want to do it, I want to do it, I want to do it. And then ever since then, it was just like uh, and then that was it.

SPEAKER_00 35:49

As a as a boy, you know, for for the fathers out there that are growing up with daughters and daughters that are hunting, like yet again, like I don't know, like obviously there are girls that are very interested, and and that's not you know, but boys love gut blood, they love dirt, they love being messy. Like, yes, there could be a lot of young ladies out there that love to hunt but may not love the the being messy and everything like that. Yeah, man, there could be boys out there too, as as well, as well I mean, correct. But like for most of the boys that you know, I'm around my family, they love to be messy, they love to and I feel like if you're teaching, especially at a young age, you know, you look at your kids, you know, and and you're teaching them, like for a boy, like I feel like yeah, once you get off of get over, like, oh my god, like this is a dead animal, and everything like that, you know, that first initial shock, it's like, okay, cool, cool, cool. Like, you know, you get to do this, you you're working with the knife and and and everything like that, and you're you're going through this whole process of you're getting your hands messy and dirty, and that's exactly what that we listen. I I love to do that. Like, not that like I love like we're talking about doing it on one deer, you know. You know, one deer every every time I kill a deer, not not five, but you're getting in there, you're doing the work, you're sweaty, you're especially in the early season.

SPEAKER_01 37:15

It's it there's blood everywhere, everywhere, and even like I've done it, I've done it where where I've you think you're set up, ready to go, you got gloves on, and you got your glove, the the big gloves that go all the way up to your shoulders, yeah, and you're good, and you go in your pack and you don't have them, and you're like I I use those for winter.

SPEAKER_00 37:35

I don't I yep for winter because usually by then, like I have all my layers on. I don't really want blood on on that. I my early season stuff I don't care about. I don't I do I do wear gloves now. I used to not, um, and now I use gloves. I don't even know why I do. The last year I sliced my finger freaking twice open. Um I think that's why I put the gloves on. Um oh yeah, I don't even use gloves. And I don't, I don't, I generally do not know why, and because no matter what, even what gloves, and that's why I tell people, it's still unless like it's super tight, it's still gonna get in. You know what I mean? So I think last year the reason why I put gloves on early season is I sliced my finger right before I started. Like, I I don't know what the fuck I was doing. I did something stupid, and I I sliced my finger right before I just was going in, and I was like, all right, let me throw on a pair of gloves real quick, even though like it just made me mentally, I guess, feel better. Like, yeah, this is really gonna help when the knife is over. Yeah, I got blood everywhere and everything like that in inside. But I don't know, like getting your hands like the first kill of the year is always like I don't know, it's like, oh yes, like we're we're back, like it's we're in this mode, like we're we're doing it.

SPEAKER_01 38:57

But you just want to be able to get in those woods and just sit there. And when that when that when that doe walks in and you're just like, oh yeah, this is it, dude. This is what I've been missing for the past like six months. Like, oh my god, I cannot wait.

SPEAKER_00 39:10

Yeah, yeah, it's and I'm thinking about it right now. I'm just so pumped up. Like, I have I have like about six weeks left until I'm back to chasing deer. So like I'm I cannot freaking wait.

SPEAKER_02 39:21

Uh I can't wait.

SPEAKER_00 39:22

It's it's it's looking good. Um, you know, now as you get older, well, the last segment before we we move on to to the company and everything like that, there's always so much to get into. I would love to go dive more into you growing up and and hunting. Maybe next time we'll we'll get into that. So now that you're older, you know what are what are what have been some of your experiences now versus what you experience as as younger, especially for you growing up since the very beginning hunting, you've seen New Jersey transform also into woods to housing to housing to housing development.

SPEAKER_01 40:06

Yeah. It's from when I was younger till now, and what I've learned is like pretty much it. I don't know, it's like for me knowing it's more of I've come to realize more about how I can know more about an animal, like what I can figure out about this deer, or like their sense, or their smells, or what they eat, or what they do, or why are they acting this way, or why are they doing this this way? Because back in younger years, you're just going to the stand hanging out, and you're just walking you just want a deer to walk in, and you're not you don't care about what trail, what's what's going on. You have no idea. All I was doing when I was younger is literally taking nature walks. That's all I was doing. Because I wasn't really shooting anything, I was more out there just being like, okay, maybe this is a good tree. I don't know anything about acorns or why they eat this or what they eat or anything like that, or why they do what they do. But now, really under like going through and hunting as much as I do and going and doing uh going out and just trying to be in the woods as much as I can. I really just want to know about why these deer are acting this certain way and what they're actually doing. Because if I could figure out what they're doing and how they're doing it, and where they're going and try to pattern them the best way I can, that's pretty much it. That's literally like that's from from being that young and not shooting anything, it may it made me realize like you're and failing so much that it was like, okay, what do I gotta do? What do I have to do? How can I do this? And then being trying to bait and everything like that, too. So it was, but then but yeah, it was pretty much pretty much that. It was pretty much me just trying to understand deer more. And once I started figuring out and understanding what these deer were doing and how they do it, and what they do, and how they how they're going from point A to point B, and really understanding your area and where you're hunting. If you can understand your where you're hunting, and you can figure out the food situation, the water situation, and what you're how your deer are acting in that area, you pretty much have it.

SPEAKER_00 42:34

Oh, yeah, no, yeah, definitely. Now, what does hunting look like now with the company? Are you are you able to hunt as much?

SPEAKER_01 42:45

Not as much, no, no, not as much, and especially with two kids, not as much as I could, not as much as I could. Before this, oh my god, I'd be out there every weekend. I'd be, oh my god, my phone, my phone be going off. I'd be coming from work, I'd be like, I gotta go. I'll leave my I'd leave my stuff, like all my equipment in my truck, sent like locked in, done. Oh yeah. But now, yeah, I would, I mean, try to get out like maybe a weekend here and there, yeah, yeah, yeah. Try to try to do what I can. That's why I try to go out west more than anything, so I can at least have like a week away. Like, yeah, yeah, no, see you later. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:24

Makes sense. That that's usually what I hear from a lot of the guys who especially like if you're doing products, you know. I mean, like products are are very difficult because you gotta keep up, you gotta make the product, you gotta either ship it.

SPEAKER_01 43:39

It's more it's more of a demand than more of a demand than anything. Because if you even like if somebody wants it, well, you better send it to them. Because if you don't, well, forget it.

SPEAKER_00 43:54

There's something else now, and that's what they're gonna do. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, what what so

SPEAKER_01 44:00

you're you're in the time uh where you're you're looking to to bring something like you said especially in new jersey everybody is baiting right everyone like it's it's one of those tales that i always talk about like i have moved away from baiting in certain places and other places you a hundred percent have to you know i mean especially where you live those those big woods you've got the ridges you know you have rolling hill you have all this if you are not baiting there you put yourself at a disadvantage in other places if you have a big ag field or something like that or ag fields i can sleep or something or yeah you think that they're gonna will just come into every day yeah yeah then yeah yeah so and that's that's that's where we go with with the whole baiting thing and always tell like uh no it you know it's not something I you know love to do but you cannot you're already at a disadvantage in so many ways when it comes to deer hunting all right I mean they're yeah the deer have the upper hand almost every way possible oh yeah it's almost like think of it as like you walking into your house walking into your fridge walking into your bedroom and just doing everything in your house you know everything's in your house you know exactly where everything is the same thing with a deer same thing they're walking right into their bedroom they're walking right into their area they're going right into their fridge exactly same thing so until yeah so yeah it's to to to bring it like to get the success that you wanted without going into details of how you make you know your stuff or or and everything like that what was the first pro like what was your first concept kind of behind this so it was more of the fact that baiting as much as I do and as much as we do it was more of like and I've seen it I've seen where it was more of like I could just put corn corn out oh that's cool but it wasn't wasn't doing anything it didn't really attract them but then really honing in on on what I can do to try to get their attention more towards me because I want them to come in and especially being on public land everybody baits and and and it's everybody's that it's just a free for all but literally every everyone does so you you're you're in your first year you're making you're you're probably testing your your first year is probably a lot of testing for for you personally so it was more tests it was I took I think it was like two and a half years to test everything. Oh okay yeah because I wanted because the thing was what out the way I was doing it and the way I was making everything they would walk right into the bait site and walk right out and I'm like dude what what am I doing wrong? So then after trying to hone in on what they want how they want it and try to figure out oh I'm putting too much of this in too much of that in I'm not doing enough of this I'm not doing this and really honing in on the ingredients and the mixtures and everything like that to really get the concoction that I need for them to really come in and really start like just eating a fit like I could put out a 50 pound bag of corn throw this stuff on top of it and it was just like they were wiping it out in like a day not literally maybe a day and a half and I'm like okay all right and then really and then finally after I'd probably say by the the end of that that season it really I was like okay all right I got something and it wasn't even like and I wasn't even trying to even run a business or do anything with that like that wasn't even my intention I just wanted to kill stuff that's all that's all I wanted to do I wanted to get the upper hand on everybody in that public land and I wanted my bait site to be the most elaborate thing that these years wanted. So I was like okay and if I could do that at least I could do at least I could kill something yeah and then finally after getting figuring everything out figured figuring out all the concoctions that I had I was like and then going into stores and seeing that there was nothing there nothing like it.

SPEAKER_00 48:39

So then I was like maybe maybe I could try something and then that's when I started doing really researching all this stuff and then I was like all right you know what let's just try it out let's see if it works let's see if this is anything if I can even do this and then here here you are now here you go yeah yeah so the the testing fit what was that the most was that the most challenging part was was the it was probably the most yeah it was probably the most stressful because and the most it was the most stressful and and realizing what what but it really taught it taught me a lot of what not to do what to do what they want what they don't want but e but the testing the testing part was probably yeah I would say that was probably the most stressful thing in the world because it was just chaotic now more more of a like same thing that it's probably you're in bear country how were the bears so like did you see that as in obviously I've had dude I've had them where they I would be walking into the stand and they would be right behind me. I would have it in my pack walk I'd be walking in at night and I would be early in the morning I'd be walking in and next thing I know I'm like dude something's not right something's definitely wrong and I would be like and I've always said like even like hunting out west or everywhere is always turn around turn around and always look behind you because something could always be behind you even though you're at night turned around and thank god I did because I turned around and that bear was probably maybe 30 yards behind me and all I saw were just two bd eyes and I was like did that affect any of your testing as well because obviously bears are going to anything that smells good sweet and anything like that anything sweet you know yeah was that like oh you you have bears pushing deer off off bait no because no because you're eating it out no so what would happen it's weird so what especially where like where I hunt the bears would come in they would eat they would come in they would eat the pile they would hang out and then they would leave and the deer and then you would sit there for like 20 minutes and the deer and the deer would come in right behind it and walk right in and walk through right to your pile so it was like even though the bear was there the deer the deer just waiting for the bear to leave and then they're just coming right back in and feeding right free off of it. That's usually my experience with bear in bear country they're so used to it yet again what I what I tell people everyone's like bears are an extreme pet predator to deer only when they're young when they're firstborn or they have to be severely sick or injured or something like that. Bears are big oppos opportunities you know I mean they don't eat as much meat as what people really generally think they do. A full grown buck or doe or not it doesn't even have to be a full grown you know they're going to get away um and I have noticed that I've even had a bear and a deer I wish I saved that picture I don't know where I'd have to go through the archives and and see if I can find it but I've had both on the camera at the exact same time bear was on the the site deer was waiting just outside like literally like probably like 20 30 yards just like right outside of the bait so the bears didn't affect which is which is good here in in Jersey we you know um once you get it once you go from the testing to now all right let's push the product out there yeah I mean was it you knew right away I was gonna say was that were you nervous at at all like yet again because you this is your baby everyone that that I talked to when they when they do stuff this is this is their baby they want obviously their baby to do well you know you you just spent all this all this time money and everything like that you know were there any nerves I imagine you knew what you had but were there any nerves at all the nervous part was it was more of the fact of starting the company and not knowing anything about it but knowing about that this stuff really worked yeah and then I was like I gotta figure out the business part of it because I have the product so I can leave the product alone because I already have that done it's more of the sense of the the business part of it and that was probably I would say the probably the business part of it was probably more the scariest thing because I didn't have no idea oh you need to do this oh you need to do that and you need to do this and that and this and then talking to people and then really honing in and then and then trying to get into stores and then getting denied constantly and saying yeah no we're good okay and then finally after like a hundred denies and then that one person says yes and then it's like okay all right and then you can get into somewhere what do you think it is with with the denies of why stores is it because you're new is it because they're already established it's more of the fact that it's you're new and are you gonna be able to push to push and produce it's it's more of the they need they need to make them they need to make they need to make a profit and if your stuff's sitting there they're not making money yeah correct so it's like well we'll we could try it out we could see if it push if it works I could sit it in here but if it doesn't work what good is it yeah and that's what that's what it really comes down to is that see I I think I think as a you know which makes 100% sense you know but if you're a company that you're getting people in there no matter what and you're making money and there are stores in there yet again not everyone has the same mindset but like okay cool hey Chris you know what we're gonna take let's just start with 10 bags right yeah hey let's take 10 bags let's see how they do you're not like as a big as a store like that as some of the big stores that are here in New Jersey that sell stuff and people that's not a risk at all it's it's really not you know I mean like it's the same thing when I when I look at uh reselling it's like all right like I get some clothes for a dollar and it's like uh like the resale the sell through rate isn't isn't the best but hey it's a dollar it's not if it sits for a little bit it sits for one six dollars exactly you know I mean it's not like you're you're going to get like hey listen you need to buy a hundred bags you know I mean like and plus and plus even if and the and the thing is is like even these the stores if you ever walk in like if anybody walks into a sports shop like a small sports shop they don't have a lot of room yeah and they don't they don't have a lot they don't want a lot of inventory because that's a lot of overhead that they have to put up and they don't want it and they don't want it because they're not they're they they don't want to do they don't want to put that they don't put that on themselves and yeah and then you're coming in with more stuff and it's like oh how do we do this what are we going to do and it's yeah and I like and I see it from their point of view and I trust I I get it and it's like it's like yeah I don't I don't blame you I wouldn't I wouldn't want the overhead either but at the same time you're you're running a business as much as as I am yeah 100% everybody just gotta wants to work together because try to make try to get my my product is to try to get people in the your store that's never been there to try to just see what your story is because maybe it's there's something else in your store that you can that you want besides what I have yeah and that's it what what was you know once you got into the first store and then the like you set up the website I imagine everything like that too as well what how long did it take for things to start really get going to where you are at this point now I'd probably say this probably say the second year that first year was tough because the first year you're running around you're trying to do stuff you're trying to get everything together you're you're just it's just run and gun and then the second year you really understand you really have like a base of like okay I have to do this this this and this but then there's some things that don't really you don't really do and there's other things you really just got to figure it out but but yeah but from getting it to that more of those stores to that like people saying yes it was like all right this can work this can work this is necessary yeah definitely now your you got some good good uh flavors your top two flavors that you'd recommend for somebody so anybody who's listening now that would like to grab you know your two most popular popular so right now I have it's um I would have to say the wildberry the wild berry that I don't know what they love about it they just love it that and then we just came out with um butterscot uh so we came out with actually three three new flavors uh acorn molasses and butterscotch molasses and it's peanut butter then another one's peanut butter uh vanilla and persimmon and the butterscotch i don't know what they between the butterscotch molasses and the yeah the wild berry those two sweets it's it's I love the sweets I don't know what it is with both of them they go absolutely out of their mind for it I love that I love that sweet you know they they have they they they like the sweets too they they they definitely do like it's something I've noticed like they they do love they do love their their sweets as as they like they I don't know they just start salivating over it's just like it's like you can just see them walking in and they're just like drooling and it's like what are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 59:09

Yeah yeah um you know we I got one more one more for you um sure what where do what what do you want to do next as in what do you want to do like what are what are you looking to do next for you know is there any without yet again without always giving away too much like are there is there a flavor that you really want to try you haven't at tried yet you know I mean like what what what would you like to see from from your from the company in the next uh few years the next few years I'd probably have to say well right now it's the the five flavors that we have is pretty much it for right now like I mean who know who knows in like two years I could be like all right doing this but yeah for right now I made I wanted at least five flavors just to have so we could give a variety of to everybody to what people bait and but for the most part I like in the next probably five couple years want to be like pretty much established and really like sent off like like really okay oh this really just getting the the name out and the word out and really trying to get the people to really understand what we're about is pretty much it. Yeah so they can realize what what it actually is because right now people look at it and they're like well what it what is this I have no idea because they're they just want they just want what they like and yeah yeah yeah doing it for yeah yeah yeah I that that makes sense um you know it's it's definitely tough um yeah but it's also a market where I I think what the one thing especially cool being in Jersey I don't ever see the baiting going anywhere you know no you'll never get you know it it gets more difficult obviously in places that don't have baiting but people always looking for for new new ways and and different products and and and things like that at the at the end of the day yeah you got your guys who are who are stuck and they they won't ever leave and and listen I completely get that that's how loyalty works like I I'm the same way with a lot of my stuff like when it comes for hunting hockey like every I'm very you know it's very hard to get me to to move off of of stuff but I completely get it because I I'm somebody who wants to try so many different things you know I mean like like I'm I'm the type of guy that wants to try like like oh this this oh what's this new thing what what's what's that this broadhead came out or this arrow or like oh what's what's this can't it's like I'm the type of guy I'm the same way I'm the type of guy that's like I want to I just want to see it I want to know what's I want it but yeah for bow hunting like switching up anything is like exact it's it's very it's very difficult.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:11

So I I get those people but you know the more it it's you just got to keep building and building going and going and going and it it it will get there you know I mean like you've you you know you've you've done so well so far and this is just the this is just the beginning for you it's the beginning dude yeah exactly and it's like and I'm not going anywhere yeah no I'm I'm here I'm just gonna keep pushing and that's it I love it I I I really do love it. Um Chris you got it got any last words for us no well I appreciate you the time and everything this was awesome I really had a blast especially when you guys came over and talked to me at that at the deer classic that was yeah that was that was fun we'll we'll we'll have to do it you know we'll we'll have to do the podcast again we'll need more stories about you especially when growing up and and younger uh and hunting i i love those love those stories um dude we we also hold a a wild game dinner every single year i'll i'll i'll let you know uh when i get the date and everything for the next one would love to to have you out there you know when dude and at events around new jersey and everything like that i imagine i'll i'll be seeing you at and everything like that and you know oh yeah i'll be i'll be at i'll be i'll be everywhere yeah it's an absolute pleasure i imagine we hey we may run into each other one of these days on on the on the on the road or something like that but you know you you never know but i i definitely appreciate it and uh you know really looking uh looking forward to see what's in store for you and you know everyone i i i do hope you guys enjoy this episode make sure you guys go check them out the description the link is gonna be in the description below instagram and also the the website if you have any questions make sure you hit up chris chris will get them answered for you you can contact me anytime on the website so yeah if you just want to pop a question up or you want to contact me or just just send me send me a DM on Instagram or Facebook or wherever our contacts are yeah I don't mind talking to you or trying to give you advice or anything like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:16

You have any questions about anything. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:19

Hell yeah well everyone like I said hope you guys enjoyed this episode and we'll see you guys next time.